This sounds like a good strategy, discretely smuggling modern music where people expect the classic, you might want to consider a change of your channel name from "David Bruce Composer" to "Mozart Brahms Composer", see if it will make your audience grow.
I was able to premiere a large piece this time last year and we programmed in a bit of Beethoven in the second half, hoping people would come for the Beethoven and be accepting of my piece in the first half. Proper mistake. Half the audience left during the interval specifically because they weren't interested in anything other than my piece. Eye-opening. "I'd rather let it echo in my mind without corruption from any extra music tonight". Lesson learnt!
I'm by no means qualified in any way to answer this but I think the simplest answer to any question is often the right one. "When did audiences stop caring about composers?" - "The same moment composers stopped caring about the audience". Meaning, in my humble opinion, that the driving force behind a lot of modern compositions is actually "compositional processes" themselves more than anything else really. This results in a seperation between "in-crowds" and "out-crowds" (as you pointed out yourself in the video about the licc). And although I think your quartet is absolutely brilliant, you need a lot of information beyond the actual quartet to really get it. The average listener (and I literary mean " the average listener" - you now, the billions of people who do not have any musical background and judge only on the basis "does it affect me in a way that I like") doesn't have all of this information. Put the audience first and see what happens...
This trend kinda annoys me, as someone who is actually more interested in hearing new, contemporary works than the same old recycled pieces (great in their own right, but a bit overdone) because it makes it harder to find new works, even when they're right in front of me.
Exactly! I can't tell you the number of "Mozart, Brahms, and more"s I didn't go to because I didn't want to hear what I've heard a ton of times that could've had brand new music in it.
Yup, there's a miriad of living amazing Brazillian composers(where I live) but It's rare to find performances or their names talked about outside conversations with the members of the orchestra/groups.
OMG I'm waiting for the recording and the score of the lick quartet to be available. It's a rare opportunity to have a mem theme in a serious classical piece
Mitchell Rivero Morejón , apparently being an overused phrase it has become an inside joke for musicians, this subject is on the 5 composers video of Bruce and widely talked about in Adam Neely Chanel
@@MR-gz9lm You don't seem to be very versed in meme-culture: It's beating a dead horse until it's just a pile of bone-dust, and then beating it some more. It's also just a fun reference to confuse newcomers and for people who have followed a bit longer to have something to pick up and laugh about. Just lighten up a bit, it's not that serious and you're not supposed to take it as a proper, well-thought out joke.
Writing original music is hard on one's self esteem. This vlog is just one example of why (among many). No matter the music's quality it's met with a lot of indifference. You put so much into the music for so little back. It's hard to spend hours writing and playing to only have a few people who are willing to take the time to listen (let alone pay) for your work. I admire you for doing all that you do.
On the Dutch website of the Dover Quartet, it's stating "new work" instead of "and more". I would have bought tickets if I had known. I live half an hour away from the Concertgebouw. I love your channel David and your music. This video is spot on as always!
This made me sad. I would totally go to a "D. Bruce (premier)" concert while a "Brahms" concert would be much less interesting to me although I would definitely enjoy Brahms if I go to the concert. It's a valuable and rare opportunity to hear a new work at a concert. I heard Salonen's violin concerto at San Francisco Symphony and I liked it, and so I thought I needed to hear it again, but no recording existed at that time! Hearing the concerto live remains one of the most memorable moments to me.
Several years ago I had a band for a charity concert, and as one of the smaller bands at the event, we were left off the advertisements saying: Featuring "Band 1", "Band 2" and Special Guests! So we changed our band name to Special Guests and it made the event organizers angry enough to change the posters to "... and more!"
I accept you need the big names (Brahms, Beethoven etc) to draw an audience but there's no excuse for leaving the Bruces off the billing. BTW I like the sound of the new quartet - would like to hear more. And the Dovers are great. I went to see them back in the summer, playing stuff by some bloke called Robert Schumann. Heard of him?
Since I started watching your RUclips postings I became curious about your music and am now the proud owner of 3 CDs that feature your music ("Gumboots", "The Northwind was a Woman" and the Silk Road Ensemble's "Playlist Without Borders", which features your "Cut the Rug" and other interesting pieces by various modern composers including jazz pianist Vijay Iyer, Shane Sanehsan, Ahmed Adman Saygun, pipa player Wu Man, saxophonist John Zorn & Colin Jacobsen). Your music is compelling, generally quite "tuneful" and, because of the elements of folk dance, jazz etc., should appeal to a variety of listeners, not just fans of "modern classical" music. Personally, although I enjoy many classical composers, most of my listening time is devoted to other genres. The promoters of these concerts are doing a dis-service to themselves, the composers, and the potential new listeners by not even mentioning the names of the newer (living!) composers on their advertisements. Yikes!!
@@DBruce I can tell. I can't say Dutch is an easy language for English people to pronounce because (despite some shared roots) it has some sounds that are entirely foreign to English. Like the 'hard G' as we call it in concertgebouw. You did put the stress right on ConCERTgebouw (although the 'e' in 'cert' is pronounced more like 'ai' in 'air'). I really appreciate the effort though because it's easy to just gloss over it and pronounce it like an English word.
I really do consider myself lucky that my college professors chose a good mix of contemporary composers and more traditional repertoire for our concert ensembles. In the same show, we did an opera overture (the name escapes me atm) and an industrial-inspired piece that we played along to a computer track
I walked into that venue one evening while at a conference rather than just having a meal out. I had no idea what was on, but heard the Right of Spring and was totally blown away. I would never have gone in if I had known, but was so glad I did.
Hi David. Really enjoying your series and wish you all the best for 2022 and beyond. In answer as to why modern (living) composers don't get a bigger crack of the whip, just reflect on Hollywood, Broadway and London's West End theatre producers' attitudes towards new/hitherto unknown/little known playwrights. For far too long the aforementioned promoters have plundered the hell out of all the 'old, but well known' box office successes, for bums-on-seats equals money in the coffers! Re: new composers, I think it's purely economic reasons allied with the fact that like ALL concert goers...(including pop and rock fans etc) they want to hear the 'favourites'...the standard classics pieces/ album tracks/pop tunes, whatever the genre. This, as you know is true with pop and rock concert fans and I'm pretty sure, with classical fans too! Thereby lies the problem with modern but lesser or little known composers works. WHO will take the chance, bite-the-bullet and go for it with a new name/face??? If money weren't the issue, it might be a different story. There might be more musical diversity in the classical world of promoters. Like you, I'm also a classical music (among other genres) composer, but also an author and playwright and as a 'Johnny-Come-Lately' it's hard to get a toe hold, never mind a foot in the door, especially if you've came up in a non-classical background! Lastly, having found out that all my favourite artistes and bands have made it, not solely by their talent, but by the MACHINE eg, the longstanding musical infrastructure of record labels/publishers/advertisers etc, you begin to realise that talent alone does not cut it, but massive, well planned and REGULAR/ONGOING publicity/promotion DOES! Just think of the plethora of music mags in many genres that have the same faces plastered all over the front covers, plus radio/TV interviews/work, plus You Tube and many more social media platforms for these people and you realise they have a bloody good management/agency team behind them. Therefore I think it's a truism to say, "It's not what you know, but WHO!"
The Michigan Philharmonic is actually very modern in terms of repertoire. In fact, they recently preformed a work by a composer who was there, and was open to questions and he signed his CD he gave me. Then, they proceeded to play the Tchaikovsky violin concerto, but the violinist was 15 years old! They've won many awards because of modern music, so I highly respect them for that.
Oof that Hiller shade. I love your approach to this topic. This is one of these "way things are" things, so it's misplaced to be personally offended, but it's good to talk about it trying to establish objectivity and inch towards a solution. The way it is from other industries, famous names that everybody knows take away from the marketing burden. People are a priori interested in them, and people when in doubt opt for safe choices, something they know won't offend their senses, because they just want to spend a good time. While you're reasonably well known here and there, it's only a small portion of the population in general, and names that people grew up with are the ones they know. The question then becomes, how do you find and attract an audience that wants a unique experience instead and is willing to risk it?
I love you being able to talk about this completely openly. We can only fix things when they're out in the open. I have a question that you may be able to answer. I do soundtracks, and I've been looking around for gigs, but I've run into a bit of a mental block. Every time I want to audition for something, I feel like I'm not "good enough" or, worse, not "professional enough" to even audition. It's even been keeping me from responding to your posts. Did you ever feel this when you were just starting out in the getting-paid-for-composing world? If so, how did you move past it? Or have you?
Not Bruce, but I am/was a gigging jazz musician and software engineer. What you're describing is called Imposter Syndrome, and it's incredibly prevalent, especially in music. It's the feeling that, even though you've been doing something for a long time or have had plenty of experience and gigs and whatnot, you've just been "faking it" the whole time and you have a fear of being "found out". It's almost always BS, but it's something I personally have struggled with and almost every musician and programmer I know has struggled with as well. It's fairly difficult to get past, but do know that it's almost certainly just plain wrong. Some advice I can share is "the worst they can say is no". You're not "wasting anyone's time" by audition, it's quite literally their job. It's *their* job to tell you if they think you're "not professional" enough for them. Don't take it personally if you don't get the gig, thank them for the time afterword, and see if you can get some feedback. It sounds incredibly cliche, but every setback is an opportunity to make yourself better. Hope that helps, and if you have any questions let me know.
@@AMTunLimited Thanks for the advice! Being a student, I've heard a lot about imposter syndrome, and it's interesting how being in it feels so much different than they describe. I don't know how I didn't recognize it. But thank you so much, hopefully I can take this advice.
@@loganstrong5426 no problem. Imposter Syndrome is rather insidious in that it seems like such a ridiculous and illogical idea that it doesn't even occur to think of yourself in that way
I was at a San Francisco Symphony concert where Steven Mackey’s Eating Greens was played in a program otherwise occupied by Beethoven, Mozart and Copland. The name of the piece seems like a nod to the subterfuge approach to getting a conservative audience to hear (and perhaps eventually even appreciate) music that is well outside their normal range of appetites. If it works for kids’ meals, why not for concert programs?
David, thanks a lot for all your videos. This topic here reminds me of another case of textual unfair treatment of new compositions/composers I observed 40 years ago. No idea, if this still happens anywhere. Sometimes in written concert programs the titles of new pieces were set in quotation marks whereas the titles of known/established/older (let's say "normal" ;-) pieces) were just written as they are. So you had e.g.: Violin Concerto, 1st Movement "Kazeeah" Impromptu No. 6 "Werdumer Mondfahrt" I'm talking about printed programs given to the audience. From the structure of them it was totally clear, where you find the titles. So putting them into any marks gave me the impression, they were (unconsciously) not fully accepted as valid titles or maybe eben valid music. [What a horrible term: valid music.] So I started to ask the organizing people of concerts, where I took part in with modern music, to please refrain from this separating or pseudo explaning sanction.
I wish I would’ve been there, but I wasn’t feeling too well that night. I do think they indeed do things like this because they are afraid contemporary composers won’t attract as many people as older composers, although personally this concert only caught my eye when I saw your name in the description!
Well, one thing is that, as a composer who's hip to all music appreciation through the years, the changing music and the experimentalization of the early 20th, you have no problem seeing classical music as a dynamic thing. Something that can be subtle or farcical. But there is a part of the classical music fanbase who are the people who like classical music but don't know much about classical music. I don't know what percentage of the fanbase they represent but I can say with confidence that it's not zero. These people know the names. And they probably think of contemporary string quartets as some rich eccentric persons passion project or something.
Hello there, n00b classical pianist and hopefully at some point aspiring composer here, can definitely say I'm still not getting the serialists or the minimalists, but at least I try, every once in a while, the occasional Schoenberg or Glass to see if maybe it works out this time. Nothing so far, the way I've listened to music and evolved my tastes would be that I would first just listen to "the sounds it makes" of a piece, and enjoy those, and if I could do that, I would have no problem listening to it a million times, even though I didn't get it the first 999999 times, cause it's still just fun listening. With contemporary music it seems I can't do that exactly. So I guess, is my approach wrong, or am I just not trying hard enough?
@@luigivercotti6410 Hey man. You like what you like. You don't have to like what I like. I was just proposing one possible explanation for what we're seeing with the names. "Mozart, Brahms and more." I never said everyone has to like minimalism. I guess I don't have to point out that you are obviously not one of the people who enjoy classical music but don't know much about classical music.
I used to go to see Rattle's Band here in Brum, and premières were often the highlight, with composers always billed. I saw Wier, Turnage and Ades - all billed, and saw Adams conduct the choral parts from Death of Klinghoffer - again, billed.
I think that headlining with old well-known composers isn't just for the allegedly more conservative regular audience, but also for being inviting to new audiences. People with more curiosity than knowledge is probably more likely to go see a performance by composers they know as their first live performance, rather than one by renowned living composers that are unknown to the general public.
While I would absolutely say that all the works/composers should be billed equally in the advertising, I actually like the trend of old favourite + something new/different. It takes a lot more mental energy to listen to music that is unfamiliar in form, tonality, etc compared to a beloved old favourite you can relax and mentally hum along to. So to me, a whole program of three to five newer pieces wouldn't do justice ot them all, whereas a classical concerto or symphony in the first half and something more eclectic in the second half is really fun.
To my mind this is a really bad strategy. If the argument is that the audience is conservative and turn up expecting 19th century rep. they may be thoroughly pissed off being confronted by music they don't want to hear. Don't get me wrong, that is no reflection on the music, I want to go to performances of new music and find programming in larger venues really quite depressing now and it is getting worse. I run a small rural concert series, with a predominantly older audience, and we deliberately try to include new music every season as well as rarely performed works. It is really encouraging after concerts to get positive feedback on new and less well known music. We rarely get negative comments.
If they're genuinely scared of telling anyone they're doing new music, they're marketing to the wrong people and in a stupid way. Twosetviolin have nearly TWO MILLION subs on here, and played a comedy-classical violin set in which absolutely nobody knew what to expect, to sold out halls all over the US, with signing lines all the way up the stairs full of fans wearing the merch. And if you watch the several vids with Hilary Hahn, the one about the Paganini (a really good 22-minute movie) and some of the sight-reading games and the charades, you can see why. Classical music can be ridiculously exciting and entertaining if you act like you actually believe in it.
See my comments about 'selling yourself/selling the artiste/band. Brett and Eddy are entertaining, yet remain fiercely loyal to their classical roots and are attracting new appreciators regularly who are being introduced in a modern way to classical music.
The main problem I see is that some contemporary/modern composers have SUCH little regard for how the piece sounds to many non-experienced persons, that they have ruined the publics opinion of the entire field. It is after all a financial RISK having to pay in advance, before the concert, for something that you might not like, or even despise. Some people, understandably, would rather not live through, or even more importantly, not PAY for a horrible experience. Only way to fix it is establishing trust: Composers writing good music have to either establish their own branche that is regarded as safe (adventurous, but never evoking the feeling of "thats just random noises any non-expert could make too"), or some individual composers have to establish trust directly. McDonalds is successful because people TRUST in the safety of their food. You will almost never have a bad experience (no brilliant one either, but the point is that IT PAYS). If you want to be financially successful AND a risk-taking musician, you have to FIRST establish a general trust in you, THEN you can experiment. Only already brilliant artists are generally trusted with the task to widen the musical horizon.
You just described the McDonalds of music like this is something to strive for. This is not art but commerce. Besides it already exists in film music. I'm all for making listenable music but holding back your artistic vision, just because some crowd of electro-pop listeners with ears up their ass might find a sound dissatisfying is selling out. Modern classical music has a very small niche and money is scarce. Boring and overly-intellectual conceptual music is what drives classical crowds away.
I was once pleasantly surprised by a contemporary violin concerto premiered here, sandwiched between lackluster Prokofiev and Mozart pieces haha, I guess it works sometimes
I am not sure of how aware people are about how the craft of composition actually did develop over a long time. The composers of the past did not only write their music, but contributed to develop the knowledge and craftmanship of it as well. And so did the instrument makers and musicians. Now the conditions for writing music has never been better, to regard of the extremely high level of the musicians, the music education, the way the instruments has been shaped to perfection and all the vast knowledge of musical theory, music history and the diversity of it and most of all, the vast access to it. So now I really wait for the party to get started when it comes to composition!!! But ironically it appears not to happen. I even experience quite often that many people do`nt know what a composer is. The composers are not the front line of music when they should the most. (?!?!?)This is a disastrous fact, and noone even seems to care, and shockingly at least the composers themselves, allthough I hope I am wrong. The composers of the past would envy us the possibilities we have today for making music, and what happen is that we (composers) seems not to take advantage or responsibility of this golden age of music. To speak for my self, to become a composer was never for me an urge for vanity and fame, nor reputation, but to simply have a profession, to do some hard work that could make sense for the society and also make a difference and emotional impact to society. But I must realize that having a profession as a composer has become far worse the last decades in spite the fact, that I allready told, the conditions have never been better. We have this wonderful banquet and we do not feast.
Because contemporary classical music is commonly understood to be overwhelmingly either wacky experimental naval gazing or obnoxiously dissonant intellectual masturbation. Virtually no one who goes to a concert hall in the current year wants to pay for the experience of that hot garbage compared to the people who want to know they are actually going to get to listen something good in a style they are already familiar with.
This annoys me big time, as a composer. I would rather see my name amongst the Big Boys, rather than just being billed as “More.” It gives you a sense of importance! Premiering a chamber piece looks a lot easier than a Symphony or even an Opera! I’m trying to become close with a local voluntary orchestra, to try and get a work premiered eventually! Reminds me of these “Cover bands” that just play the same old Motown classics, rather than writing their own shit!
I don’t understand how people would not want to attend a premiere. Why would anyone want to pass on the chance to hear a piece for the very first time?
Everything is different today, than it was thirty to fifty years ago. Younger generations like experiencing everything online. Older generations, who might appreciate Classical (I think it's called Classical, partly because it has stood the test of time - newbies just don't qualify) may be just more reluctant to venture out at night for something they may now be sure will satisfy their need for music that may be easy/easier to follow, or something programmatic. Who has the largest pool of disposable income? Who's most likely to visit the concert hall? The flyers/brochures/marketing must target that sector. I once did some telemarketing for Lincoln Center and by chance I spoke with an older woman who petitioned for more afternoon concerts, because she was somewhat fearful of traveling at night. Perhaps the "More" composers and concert halls should be more considerate of that sector. I could go on, but, I'm beginning to bore even myself, but, all genres have to battle, or ignore, the need for a story that people can relate to. Why do jazz groups seem to do better if they feature a vocalist? The Public is not used to or comfortable following music that has no verbal or visual story. I remember an article many years ago - an interview with flutist James Galway - JG commented at that time that modern day composers should "grow up" and write some melodies. Contemporary music's "problem" probably since the 1920's - hard to write music purely for music's or mathematics' sake, or to impress the Academics, your peers, or citics (shame on you, if you are deemed 'derivative') and yet draw a large ticket-buying crowd.
With all due respect to Mrs Wijzenbeek, the Concertgebouw more often has been careless, to say the least, in their treatment of living composers. For example when they commissioned the Dutch composer Louis Andriessen to write a jubilee piece for the orchestra, of which the unpleasant and thankless reception was recorded in a wonderful documentary film named Imperfect Harmony: cobosfilms.nl/portfolio/imperfect-harmony/
Thank you for clearing up the "white males" thing. I know it's easy to become used to saying callous things, but there really are people who have been put upon who don't want to relive the pain of pouring their heart into a work, and ultimately being discarded over something they can't overcome. I don't know if it is similar in contemporary music, but in my day job as a software developer, I have seen outright racial discrimination against East Asians, South Asians, and yes, people with light skin (incl. White Arabs, Poles), and it is no more or less infuriating to watch any given person have people assume things have been easy for them with little more than a glance.
I really appreciate you tackling this subject and exposing it to the public. This is something a lot of people talk about in comments sections and Reddit and stuff, but to have this sentiment echoed by a very visible and respected public figure is always significant... I mean, it's kinda sad that we have to rely on "celebrities" to give credibility to opinions, but it still takes a form of bravery for you to be frank about this topic. ... on the other hand, I'm annoyed that you fell for the obnoxious RUclips trope of "shot of notebook/tablet screen on a Skype call / reverse shot of listener nodding intellectually". But y'know, I just have to complain about something, so there ya go.
I work in the performing arts industry and I've noticed that the many older folks (and plenty of others) attend the symphony, operas, and plays as more a statement of appearing cultured rather than to see what's at the forefront of new art. Obviously this isn't everyone, but in my personal experience, modern concert goers who attend concerts for less classically (baroque, romantic period etc.) inclined performances tend to be more in it to actually enjoy themselves rather than be seen at the theatre. But plenty of people would still rather record a video of a concert on their phone to post on social media than actually be present and in the moment so that concept of "appearing cultured" is far from a generational thing. Many people are satisfied to constantly see the same half a dozen composers just because they are more household names than "David Bruce." (For now). Their compositions are also a part of many musicians repertoires and have been taught forever so I think that is a factor as well as audiences' feelings. I do think it is important for people to get the chance to experience the great works of history performed live though and they should continue being performed. Listening to a recording of a symphony (or quartet or what have you) doesn't quite compare to being in the room when it's played. And that's coming from someone that has recorded many symphonies before. You cannot recreate that feeling of being there and I think that's a big reason to continue doing the same works. I want more people to hear the greats' work performed live, but I want that to drive the next generation of great composers to step up and be recognized and in turn get audiences excited to be a part of new movements.
Hmm... I'd send in my cello metal arrangements of classical pieces, but I'm not up for showing my face online yet. I also only have one of them posted, so I'd better get practising and recording. XD
I'd probably not go to a concert with two deadguy names on it but I'd definitely go to one called "two famous dead guy ones and some guy from the internet who put the lick in his one's one" so maybe ask them to bill it as that next time
David numerous contemporary composers think because they spend numerous hours penning music on manuscript paper or using Finale or Sibelius think they should be promoted more. The audience wants to be entertained and maybe have a catchy tune (Adam Nealey's Lick / Miles Davis A Kind of Blue at 8:58). Peter Graham, Martin Ellerby, Philip Sparke, Nigel Hess, John Williams write melodies that are memorable. A tonal serialism might be clever but the audiences want to be entertained not played at it does not work. I come from being a professional musician for decades and seeing audiences reaction to the programme that is put before them.
It is just a matter of how well known you are. Any number of rock and pop acts go on tour as Big Dick plus support. And in a few years if the support act does well it becomes Support plus another support.
Still if they'd included your name at the end people would still go for the Beethoven and the Brahms and they'd be a bit more inclined to look up who this 'Bruce' character is. Great video though. Something I've never really thought about before.
You actually didn't get any straight answers from her other than a load of marketing BS that was wrapped nicely but still jammed up your backend all the same. I would be pretty infuriated by this, even if she gave me the chance to play at the Concertgebouw. Your work is just as valuable as that of those old geezers mentioned in the billing.
I think she was pretty genuine. There is one thing that differs from David Bruce and Mahler premieres. Mahler was a world renowned composer and especially orchestral chief at the time he directed his own works, so it was easier to sell tickets at the time with his name on. Also of course, the whole musical landscape was completely different. Classical music wasn't an outsider when it came to popularity.
Although this is more true of new drama or theatre than music, it is a great investment of time and money to go to a performance. Sometimes you feel 'safer' going with something you know. I've been bitterly disappointed by watching something new and it being of poor quality. Not something that wasn't to my taste as much as something that left me feeling cheated. But that doesn't explain ignoring the fresh content completely as I think programmes that offer something you know and trust with the chance to hear something new is a perfect way of changing people's minds about moving away from more traditional fare.
Seems pretty obvious to me, it's why cinema is so full of remakes and sequels. People like what's familiar, and they like what's proven to stand the test of time. If a piece has lasted two centuries and still gets played often, it's pretty much accepted to be good, you're not gambling with your money and your time if you go to that. If you're going to a performance that was written only a couple months ago... then who knows!?
Txs for another vlig. It is very depressing that contemporary Composers are so neglected when promoting a premiere. Another rather depressing fact is that the conditions for writing music has never been better as now...thinking of the time of Bach or Beethoven or even Dvorak and Holst, they did`nt have all the knowledge, diverisity, and experinece in composing that we can banquet limitless on now. Beside that the musicians were never so skilled and well educated as today. And even the instruments not that well developed. So it is an extremely sad fact that the Composers are almost turning invisible and out of the speak when we really should let the party get started when it comes to composing Music.And when it comes to the Dover Quartet, these are really my favorite musicians and I should envy you enormously for colabourating With them. But on the other hand I honestly find you such a gifted and good Composer, so you really deserves it!!! Anyhow...if you should talk to them and they would fancy to do some new Music once more...I do have written nine string Quartets...and they are gooood!!!
Well, my point is that the craft of composing did develop over time. They had to start from scratch back then and step by step achieve the different tools for creating music. Also the different musical instruments and the musical eduaction. Today the Composers can harvest all this knowledge and also the information not only through music theory books/schools, but also the vast amount of recordings of all types of music from all around the world. So I would love that a genius like Bach could live today to take advantage of all the possibilities we have for making music and indeed the extremely high level of the musicians and orchestras. I don`t think we are more distracted now compared to back then when it comes to composing, me as a Composer feel very humble and priviligated to live in this time of the history. It `s like being a child with free access to a huge candy store.
Bonus points for anyone who can name the piece the 'mystery chord' at 0:08 comes from (clue: one of my old teachers)
Sounds like Birtwistle
Arthur
I was visiting Amsterdam and was outside the concert hall when this was on...I genuinely had no idea you were there. Damn that's crazy.
Mask of Orpheus?
@@SamGreeningSJG right composer wrong piece. clue 2, it's the opening gesture
For the next '5 composers' call it 'David Bruce and 4 more'
YES. Nailed it.
*_Elijah Miniuk with 3 irrelevant individuals and David Caboose_*
David Moore and the Other Four.
The Modern Mighty Handful?
*View 5 replies from David Bruce and others*
Can’t wait to subscribe to David More Composer
Or just More More Composer
be careful there though, he doesn't want to be beaten by David Most Composer, if one were to come around!
@@99jdave99 more.. most.. mozart
Ooo I wonder if David More will come to San Diego?
David be like "SAY MY NAAAAAME" to concert halls PR ppl
This sounds like a good strategy, discretely smuggling modern music where people expect the classic, you might want to consider a change of your channel name from "David Bruce Composer" to "Mozart Brahms Composer", see if it will make your audience grow.
Don Comaro: The “Mozart, Brahms, and More” RUclips Channel...
I was able to premiere a large piece this time last year and we programmed in a bit of Beethoven in the second half, hoping people would come for the Beethoven and be accepting of my piece in the first half.
Proper mistake. Half the audience left during the interval specifically because they weren't interested in anything other than my piece. Eye-opening. "I'd rather let it echo in my mind without corruption from any extra music tonight".
Lesson learnt!
I'm by no means qualified in any way to answer this but I think the simplest answer to any question is often the right one. "When did audiences stop caring about composers?" - "The same moment composers stopped caring about the audience". Meaning, in my humble opinion, that the driving force behind a lot of modern compositions is actually "compositional processes" themselves more than anything else really. This results in a seperation between "in-crowds" and "out-crowds" (as you pointed out yourself in the video about the licc). And although I think your quartet is absolutely brilliant, you need a lot of information beyond the actual quartet to really get it. The average listener (and I literary mean " the average listener" - you now, the billions of people who do not have any musical background and judge only on the basis "does it affect me in a way that I like") doesn't have all of this information. Put the audience first and see what happens...
This trend kinda annoys me, as someone who is actually more interested in hearing new, contemporary works than the same old recycled pieces (great in their own right, but a bit overdone) because it makes it harder to find new works, even when they're right in front of me.
Exactly! I can't tell you the number of "Mozart, Brahms, and more"s I didn't go to because I didn't want to hear what I've heard a ton of times that could've had brand new music in it.
Yup, there's a miriad of living amazing Brazillian composers(where I live) but It's rare to find performances or their names talked about outside conversations with the members of the orchestra/groups.
there is incredible music from the 20th century that is still underplayed. start there!
rautavaara is someone i would love to hear performed
OMG I'm waiting for the recording and the score of the lick quartet to be available. It's a rare opportunity to have a mem theme in a serious classical piece
Mitchell Rivero Morejón , apparently being an overused phrase it has become an inside joke for musicians, this subject is on the 5 composers video of Bruce and widely talked about in Adam Neely Chanel
@@MR-gz9lm You don't seem to be very versed in meme-culture: It's beating a dead horse until it's just a pile of bone-dust, and then beating it some more. It's also just a fun reference to confuse newcomers and for people who have followed a bit longer to have something to pick up and laugh about. Just lighten up a bit, it's not that serious and you're not supposed to take it as a proper, well-thought out joke.
@@MR-gz9lm I've seen a movie where like 75% of the soundtrack was comprised of The Lick lol
Bartok's 4th string quartet contains the lick by the way
Writing original music is hard on one's self esteem. This vlog is just one example of why (among many). No matter the music's quality it's met with a lot of indifference. You put so much into the music for so little back. It's hard to spend hours writing and playing to only have a few people who are willing to take the time to listen (let alone pay) for your work. I admire you for doing all that you do.
On the Dutch website of the Dover Quartet, it's stating "new work" instead of "and more". I would have bought tickets if I had known. I live half an hour away from the Concertgebouw. I love your channel David and your music. This video is spot on as always!
This made me sad. I would totally go to a "D. Bruce (premier)" concert while a "Brahms" concert would be much less interesting to me although I would definitely enjoy Brahms if I go to the concert. It's a valuable and rare opportunity to hear a new work at a concert. I heard Salonen's violin concerto at San Francisco Symphony and I liked it, and so I thought I needed to hear it again, but no recording existed at that time! Hearing the concerto live remains one of the most memorable moments to me.
Maybe they should advertize it as by "famous youtuber David Bruce"... ;-)
Martijn Hover That might get him LESS respect. RUclipsrs aren’t appreciated by old media.
@@kwhyland Yes, but i might draw lots of young people to the concert hall.
RUclips Influencer, David Bruce-More, :-)
LMAO "Mozart, Brahms and famous RUclips composer David Bruce" xD
Several years ago I had a band for a charity concert, and as one of the smaller bands at the event, we were left off the advertisements saying: Featuring "Band 1", "Band 2" and Special Guests!
So we changed our band name to Special Guests and it made the event organizers angry enough to change the posters to "... and more!"
If you hadn't pointed the smudges out, I wouldn't have noticed, Bruce More :p
Maybe your iPad is so dirty that you didn't notice the smudge? 😉
@@volkglasba hahahaha thankfully my laptop's not too dirty :p
I noticed and tried to clean imy tablet. Now I can't tell.
I accept you need the big names (Brahms, Beethoven etc) to draw an audience but there's no excuse for leaving the Bruces off the billing. BTW I like the sound of the new quartet - would like to hear more. And the Dovers are great. I went to see them back in the summer, playing stuff by some bloke called Robert Schumann. Heard of him?
you'd like to hear more? did you not just watch his video?
I can't help thinking that "John Williams conducts John Williams" would easily fill a stadium. A concert hall would be trivial.
think queen live aid
Yeah, right? Like maybe some little composer would turn people off, but even nonmusicians know John Williams.
Since I started watching your RUclips postings I became curious about your music and am now the proud owner of 3 CDs that feature your music ("Gumboots", "The Northwind was a Woman" and the Silk Road Ensemble's "Playlist Without Borders", which features your "Cut the Rug" and other interesting pieces by various modern composers including jazz pianist Vijay Iyer, Shane Sanehsan, Ahmed Adman Saygun, pipa player Wu Man, saxophonist John Zorn & Colin Jacobsen). Your music is compelling, generally quite "tuneful" and, because of the elements of folk dance, jazz etc., should appeal to a variety of listeners, not just fans of "modern classical" music. Personally, although I enjoy many classical composers, most of my listening time is devoted to other genres. The promoters of these concerts are doing a dis-service to themselves, the composers, and the potential new listeners by not even mentioning the names of the newer (living!) composers on their advertisements. Yikes!!
Thanks a lot for listening!
I love how you pronounce both "concertgebouw" and her name half correctly and half in a really British manner
I tried so hard to get them right!
@@DBruce I can tell. I can't say Dutch is an easy language for English people to pronounce because (despite some shared roots) it has some sounds that are entirely foreign to English. Like the 'hard G' as we call it in concertgebouw. You did put the stress right on ConCERTgebouw (although the 'e' in 'cert' is pronounced more like 'ai' in 'air').
I really appreciate the effort though because it's easy to just gloss over it and pronounce it like an English word.
I really do consider myself lucky that my college professors chose a good mix of contemporary composers and more traditional repertoire for our concert ensembles. In the same show, we did an opera overture (the name escapes me atm) and an industrial-inspired piece that we played along to a computer track
I walked into that venue one evening while at a conference rather than just having a meal out. I had no idea what was on, but heard the Right of Spring and was totally blown away. I would never have gone in if I had known, but was so glad I did.
You wrote an entire quartet based on "the licc"???? Of course you did 😂😂 brilliant 😂
My thoughts exactly! More liccccccccc
Hi David. Really enjoying your series and wish you all the best for 2022 and beyond. In answer as to why modern (living) composers don't get a bigger crack of the whip, just reflect on Hollywood, Broadway and London's West End theatre producers' attitudes towards new/hitherto unknown/little known playwrights. For far too long the aforementioned promoters have plundered the hell out of all the 'old, but well known' box office successes, for bums-on-seats equals money in the coffers!
Re: new composers, I think it's purely economic reasons allied with the fact that like ALL concert goers...(including pop and rock fans etc) they want to hear the 'favourites'...the standard classics pieces/ album tracks/pop tunes, whatever the genre.
This, as you know is true with pop and rock concert fans and I'm pretty sure, with classical fans too!
Thereby lies the problem with modern but lesser or little known composers works. WHO will take the chance, bite-the-bullet and go for it with a new name/face??? If money weren't the issue, it might be a different story. There might be more musical diversity in the classical world of promoters. Like you, I'm also a classical music (among other genres) composer, but also an author and playwright and as a 'Johnny-Come-Lately' it's hard to get a toe hold, never mind a foot in the door, especially if you've came up in a non-classical background!
Lastly, having found out that all my favourite artistes and bands have made it, not solely by their talent, but by the MACHINE eg, the longstanding musical infrastructure of record labels/publishers/advertisers etc, you begin to realise that talent alone does not cut it, but massive, well planned and REGULAR/ONGOING publicity/promotion DOES!
Just think of the plethora of music mags in many genres that have the same faces plastered all over the front covers, plus radio/TV interviews/work, plus You Tube and many more social media platforms for these people and you realise they have a bloody good management/agency team behind them.
Therefore I think it's a truism to say, "It's not what you know, but WHO!"
The Michigan Philharmonic is actually very modern in terms of repertoire. In fact, they recently preformed a work by a composer who was there, and was open to questions and he signed his CD he gave me. Then, they proceeded to play the Tchaikovsky violin concerto, but the violinist was 15 years old! They've won many awards because of modern music, so I highly respect them for that.
Oof that Hiller shade.
I love your approach to this topic. This is one of these "way things are" things, so it's misplaced to be personally offended, but it's good to talk about it trying to establish objectivity and inch towards a solution.
The way it is from other industries, famous names that everybody knows take away from the marketing burden. People are a priori interested in them, and people when in doubt opt for safe choices, something they know won't offend their senses, because they just want to spend a good time. While you're reasonably well known here and there, it's only a small portion of the population in general, and names that people grew up with are the ones they know. The question then becomes, how do you find and attract an audience that wants a unique experience instead and is willing to risk it?
I love you being able to talk about this completely openly. We can only fix things when they're out in the open.
I have a question that you may be able to answer. I do soundtracks, and I've been looking around for gigs, but I've run into a bit of a mental block. Every time I want to audition for something, I feel like I'm not "good enough" or, worse, not "professional enough" to even audition. It's even been keeping me from responding to your posts. Did you ever feel this when you were just starting out in the getting-paid-for-composing world? If so, how did you move past it? Or have you?
Not Bruce, but I am/was a gigging jazz musician and software engineer. What you're describing is called Imposter Syndrome, and it's incredibly prevalent, especially in music. It's the feeling that, even though you've been doing something for a long time or have had plenty of experience and gigs and whatnot, you've just been "faking it" the whole time and you have a fear of being "found out". It's almost always BS, but it's something I personally have struggled with and almost every musician and programmer I know has struggled with as well. It's fairly difficult to get past, but do know that it's almost certainly just plain wrong. Some advice I can share is "the worst they can say is no". You're not "wasting anyone's time" by audition, it's quite literally their job. It's *their* job to tell you if they think you're "not professional" enough for them. Don't take it personally if you don't get the gig, thank them for the time afterword, and see if you can get some feedback. It sounds incredibly cliche, but every setback is an opportunity to make yourself better.
Hope that helps, and if you have any questions let me know.
@@AMTunLimited Thanks for the advice! Being a student, I've heard a lot about imposter syndrome, and it's interesting how being in it feels so much different than they describe. I don't know how I didn't recognize it. But thank you so much, hopefully I can take this advice.
@@loganstrong5426 no problem. Imposter Syndrome is rather insidious in that it seems like such a ridiculous and illogical idea that it doesn't even occur to think of yourself in that way
I was at a San Francisco Symphony concert where Steven Mackey’s Eating Greens was played in a program otherwise occupied by Beethoven, Mozart and Copland. The name of the piece seems like a nod to the subterfuge approach to getting a conservative audience to hear (and perhaps eventually even appreciate) music that is well outside their normal range of appetites. If it works for kids’ meals, why not for concert programs?
David, thanks a lot for all your videos. This topic here reminds me of another case of textual unfair treatment of new compositions/composers I observed 40 years ago. No idea, if this still happens anywhere. Sometimes in written concert programs the titles of new pieces were set in quotation marks whereas the titles of known/established/older (let's say "normal" ;-) pieces) were just written as they are. So you had e.g.:
Violin Concerto, 1st Movement
"Kazeeah"
Impromptu No. 6
"Werdumer Mondfahrt"
I'm talking about printed programs given to the audience. From the structure of them it was totally clear, where you find the titles. So putting them into any marks gave me the impression, they were (unconsciously) not fully accepted as valid titles or maybe eben valid music. [What a horrible term: valid music.] So I started to ask the organizing people of concerts, where I took part in with modern music, to please refrain from this separating or pseudo explaning sanction.
Very fair-minded and gracious, David, as always.
I wish I would’ve been there, but I wasn’t feeling too well that night. I do think they indeed do things like this because they are afraid contemporary composers won’t attract as many people as older composers, although personally this concert only caught my eye when I saw your name in the description!
They missed an opportunity to play with the alliteration in "Brahms and Bruce"... could have dropped "Mozart" instead.
Well, one thing is that, as a composer who's hip to all music appreciation through the years, the changing music and the experimentalization of the early 20th, you have no problem seeing classical music as a dynamic thing. Something that can be subtle or farcical. But there is a part of the classical music fanbase who are the people who like classical music but don't know much about classical music. I don't know what percentage of the fanbase they represent but I can say with confidence that it's not zero. These people know the names. And they probably think of contemporary string quartets as some rich eccentric persons passion project or something.
Hello there, n00b classical pianist and hopefully at some point aspiring composer here, can definitely say I'm still not getting the serialists or the minimalists, but at least I try, every once in a while, the occasional Schoenberg or Glass to see if maybe it works out this time. Nothing so far, the way I've listened to music and evolved my tastes would be that I would first just listen to "the sounds it makes" of a piece, and enjoy those, and if I could do that, I would have no problem listening to it a million times, even though I didn't get it the first 999999 times, cause it's still just fun listening. With contemporary music it seems I can't do that exactly. So I guess, is my approach wrong, or am I just not trying hard enough?
@@luigivercotti6410 Hey man. You like what you like. You don't have to like what I like. I was just proposing one possible explanation for what we're seeing with the names. "Mozart, Brahms and more." I never said everyone has to like minimalism.
I guess I don't have to point out that you are obviously not one of the people who enjoy classical music but don't know much about classical music.
I used to go to see Rattle's Band here in Brum, and premières were often the highlight, with composers always billed. I saw Wier, Turnage and Ades - all billed, and saw Adams conduct the choral parts from Death of Klinghoffer - again, billed.
I think that headlining with old well-known composers isn't just for the allegedly more conservative regular audience, but also for being inviting to new audiences. People with more curiosity than knowledge is probably more likely to go see a performance by composers they know as their first live performance, rather than one by renowned living composers that are unknown to the general public.
While I would absolutely say that all the works/composers should be billed equally in the advertising, I actually like the trend of old favourite + something new/different. It takes a lot more mental energy to listen to music that is unfamiliar in form, tonality, etc compared to a beloved old favourite you can relax and mentally hum along to. So to me, a whole program of three to five newer pieces wouldn't do justice ot them all, whereas a classical concerto or symphony in the first half and something more eclectic in the second half is really fun.
To my mind this is a really bad strategy. If the argument is that the audience is conservative and turn up expecting 19th century rep. they may be thoroughly pissed off being confronted by music they don't want to hear.
Don't get me wrong, that is no reflection on the music, I want to go to performances of new music and find programming in larger venues really quite depressing now and it is getting worse.
I run a small rural concert series, with a predominantly older audience, and we deliberately try to include new music every season as well as rarely performed works. It is really encouraging after concerts to get positive feedback on new and less well known music. We rarely get negative comments.
More of that!
I'm just a bit late but thank you for being so honest about this kind of topic
If they're genuinely scared of telling anyone they're doing new music, they're marketing to the wrong people and in a stupid way. Twosetviolin have nearly TWO MILLION subs on here, and played a comedy-classical violin set in which absolutely nobody knew what to expect, to sold out halls all over the US, with signing lines all the way up the stairs full of fans wearing the merch. And if you watch the several vids with Hilary Hahn, the one about the Paganini (a really good 22-minute movie) and some of the sight-reading games and the charades, you can see why. Classical music can be ridiculously exciting and entertaining if you act like you actually believe in it.
See my comments about 'selling yourself/selling the artiste/band. Brett and Eddy are entertaining, yet remain fiercely loyal to their classical roots and are attracting new appreciators regularly who are being introduced in a modern way to classical music.
Excellent, thank you.
Hope to ever spot you at the concertgebouw someday, I work there quite occasionally.
The main problem I see is that some contemporary/modern composers have SUCH little regard for how the piece sounds to many non-experienced persons, that they have ruined the publics opinion of the entire field. It is after all a financial RISK having to pay in advance, before the concert, for something that you might not like, or even despise. Some people, understandably, would rather not live through, or even more importantly, not PAY for a horrible experience.
Only way to fix it is establishing trust: Composers writing good music have to either establish their own branche that is regarded as safe (adventurous, but never evoking the feeling of "thats just random noises any non-expert could make too"), or some individual composers have to establish trust directly. McDonalds is successful because people TRUST in the safety of their food. You will almost never have a bad experience (no brilliant one either, but the point is that IT PAYS). If you want to be financially successful AND a risk-taking musician, you have to FIRST establish a general trust in you, THEN you can experiment. Only already brilliant artists are generally trusted with the task to widen the musical horizon.
You just described the McDonalds of music like this is something to strive for. This is not art but commerce. Besides it already exists in film music. I'm all for making listenable music but holding back your artistic vision, just because some crowd of electro-pop listeners with ears up their ass might find a sound dissatisfying is selling out. Modern classical music has a very small niche and money is scarce. Boring and overly-intellectual conceptual music is what drives classical crowds away.
Great video!
Would you please make a video about "how to improve (a lot) at harmonic analysis?"
Greettinga from Argentina!
I was once pleasantly surprised by a contemporary violin concerto premiered here, sandwiched between lackluster Prokofiev and Mozart pieces haha, I guess it works sometimes
Why did I not know this! I should have been there!. I am a fan of yours.
Damm Concert gebouw I have them in my email, but they dont promote this.
Holy shit het Concertgebouw, i'm gonna be playing the trumpet over there in half a year
I am not sure of how aware people are about how the craft of composition actually did develop over a long time. The composers of the past did not only write their music, but contributed to develop the knowledge and craftmanship of it as well. And so did the instrument makers and musicians. Now the conditions for writing music has never been better, to regard of the extremely high level of the musicians, the music education, the way the instruments has been shaped to perfection and all the vast knowledge of musical theory, music history and the diversity of it and most of all, the vast access to it. So now I really wait for the party to get started when it comes to composition!!! But ironically it appears not to happen. I even experience quite often that many people do`nt know what a composer is. The composers are not the front line of music when they should the most. (?!?!?)This is a disastrous fact, and noone even seems to care, and shockingly at least the composers themselves, allthough I hope I am wrong. The composers of the past would envy us the possibilities we have today for making music, and what happen is that we (composers) seems not to take advantage or responsibility of this golden age of music. To speak for my self, to become a composer was never for me an urge for vanity and fame, nor reputation, but to simply have a profession, to do some hard work that could make sense for the society and also make a difference and emotional impact to society. But I must realize that having a profession as a composer has become far worse the last decades in spite the fact, that I allready told, the conditions have never been better. We have this wonderful banquet and we do not feast.
You’ve been eating baked beans and watching Father Ted again haven’t you.
Next sponsorship: microfibre cloth to clean smudgy displays.... :)))
That's certainly something I've never seen as of yet
I want to connect with other composers and to learn more from them as well as books and mistakes i make. Do you have any tips?
4:04 For a brief moment I thought that said a different name
First Opus by David More: "the smudge on the screen"
"...and more" suggests a few others. If it were just the one, I'd feel a bit conned. Otherwise it's "...and [composer]".
And that was the story of Remo Giazotto and Adagio in G minor
Because contemporary classical music is commonly understood to be overwhelmingly either wacky experimental naval gazing or obnoxiously dissonant intellectual masturbation. Virtually no one who goes to a concert hall in the current year wants to pay for the experience of that hot garbage compared to the people who want to know they are actually going to get to listen something good in a style they are already familiar with.
"John Williams... Nuff said."
I don’t have a pinky big enough to hold up for this channel.
Nice video! Subscribed
Wow, where can I listen to your new quartett? Can I buy a copy?
This annoys me big time, as a composer. I would rather see my name amongst the Big Boys, rather than just being billed as “More.”
It gives you a sense of importance!
Premiering a chamber piece looks a lot easier than a Symphony or even an Opera!
I’m trying to become close with a local voluntary orchestra, to try and get a work premiered eventually!
Reminds me of these “Cover bands” that just play the same old Motown classics, rather than writing their own shit!
Also they left out the Oxford comma. :(
How did you hang that uke upside down? Asking for a friend.
Very interesting..
Minor nitpick: the "ij" diphthong in Dutch (as in the interviewed lady's surname) is always pronounced /aj/ (as in the English words "eye" and "I").
I was about to mention the same, thanks.
One apology for the smudgy screen is enough. 😉✨
Do you think Kanye West’s announced Opera should be able to be classified and promoted as such?
I don’t understand how people would not want to attend a premiere. Why would anyone want to pass on the chance to hear a piece for the very first time?
It's so strange to hear people talk about the Concertgebouw with such reverence when it's something I'm around on a regular basis.
Everything is different today, than it was thirty to fifty years ago. Younger generations like experiencing everything online. Older generations, who might appreciate Classical (I think it's called Classical, partly because it has stood the test of time - newbies just don't qualify) may be just more reluctant to venture out at night for something they may now be sure will satisfy their need for music that may be easy/easier to follow, or something programmatic. Who has the largest pool of disposable income? Who's most likely to visit the concert hall? The flyers/brochures/marketing must target that sector. I once did some telemarketing for Lincoln Center and by chance I spoke with an older woman who petitioned for more afternoon concerts, because she was somewhat fearful of traveling at night. Perhaps the "More" composers and concert halls should be more considerate of that sector. I could go on, but, I'm beginning to bore even myself, but, all genres have to battle, or ignore, the need for a story that people can relate to. Why do jazz groups seem to do better if they feature a vocalist? The Public is not used to or comfortable following music that has no verbal or visual story. I remember an article many years ago - an interview with flutist James Galway - JG commented at that time that modern day composers should "grow up" and write some melodies. Contemporary music's "problem" probably since the 1920's - hard to write music purely for music's or mathematics' sake, or to impress the Academics, your peers, or citics (shame on you, if you are deemed 'derivative') and yet draw a large ticket-buying crowd.
🔥🔥🔥
can I ask why you don't like Hiller?
With all due respect to Mrs Wijzenbeek, the Concertgebouw more often has been careless, to say the least, in their treatment of living composers. For example when they commissioned the Dutch composer Louis Andriessen to write a jubilee piece for the orchestra, of which the unpleasant and thankless reception was recorded in a wonderful documentary film named Imperfect Harmony: cobosfilms.nl/portfolio/imperfect-harmony/
Thank you for clearing up the "white males" thing. I know it's easy to become used to saying callous things, but there really are people who have been put upon who don't want to relive the pain of pouring their heart into a work, and ultimately being discarded over something they can't overcome.
I don't know if it is similar in contemporary music, but in my day job as a software developer, I have seen outright racial discrimination against East Asians, South Asians, and yes, people with light skin (incl. White Arabs, Poles), and it is no more or less infuriating to watch any given person have people assume things have been easy for them with little more than a glance.
"Moooore" What's your name? "More" HAHAHAHA
I really appreciate you tackling this subject and exposing it to the public. This is something a lot of people talk about in comments sections and Reddit and stuff, but to have this sentiment echoed by a very visible and respected public figure is always significant... I mean, it's kinda sad that we have to rely on "celebrities" to give credibility to opinions, but it still takes a form of bravery for you to be frank about this topic.
... on the other hand, I'm annoyed that you fell for the obnoxious RUclips trope of "shot of notebook/tablet screen on a Skype call / reverse shot of listener nodding intellectually". But y'know, I just have to complain about something, so there ya go.
(nodding intellectually)
♥️♥️♥️
I work in the performing arts industry and I've noticed that the many older folks (and plenty of others) attend the symphony, operas, and plays as more a statement of appearing cultured rather than to see what's at the forefront of new art. Obviously this isn't everyone, but in my personal experience, modern concert goers who attend concerts for less classically (baroque, romantic period etc.) inclined performances tend to be more in it to actually enjoy themselves rather than be seen at the theatre. But plenty of people would still rather record a video of a concert on their phone to post on social media than actually be present and in the moment so that concept of "appearing cultured" is far from a generational thing.
Many people are satisfied to constantly see the same half a dozen composers just because they are more household names than "David Bruce." (For now). Their compositions are also a part of many musicians repertoires and have been taught forever so I think that is a factor as well as audiences' feelings.
I do think it is important for people to get the chance to experience the great works of history performed live though and they should continue being performed. Listening to a recording of a symphony (or quartet or what have you) doesn't quite compare to being in the room when it's played. And that's coming from someone that has recorded many symphonies before. You cannot recreate that feeling of being there and I think that's a big reason to continue doing the same works. I want more people to hear the greats' work performed live, but I want that to drive the next generation of great composers to step up and be recognized and in turn get audiences excited to be a part of new movements.
Hmm... I'd send in my cello metal arrangements of classical pieces, but I'm not up for showing my face online yet. I also only have one of them posted, so I'd better get practising and recording. XD
I'd probably not go to a concert with two deadguy names on it but I'd definitely go to one called "two famous dead guy ones and some guy from the internet who put the lick in his one's one" so maybe ask them to bill it as that next time
Take a look at NewTek's free NDI Tools for recording video from screens and calls. Might be useful.
The Lick is everywhere.
Nice
David numerous contemporary composers think because they spend numerous hours penning music on manuscript paper or using Finale or Sibelius think they should be promoted more. The audience wants to be entertained and maybe have a catchy tune (Adam Nealey's Lick / Miles Davis A Kind of Blue at 8:58). Peter Graham, Martin Ellerby, Philip Sparke, Nigel Hess, John Williams write melodies that are memorable. A tonal serialism might be clever but the audiences want to be entertained not played at it does not work. I come from being a professional musician for decades and seeing audiences reaction to the programme that is put before them.
A piece that finally takes the Lick seriously? Check out "A Good Lickin' " at ruclips.net/video/HRs2JletH08/видео.html
It is just a matter of how well known you are. Any number of rock and pop acts go on tour as Big Dick plus support. And in a few years if the support act does well it becomes Support plus another support.
who’s Hiller? thought it said hitler lmao
Perhaps they'd include your name if you told them that you were very ill.
Still if they'd included your name at the end people would still go for the Beethoven and the Brahms and they'd be a bit more inclined to look up who this 'Bruce' character is. Great video though. Something I've never really thought about before.
" More living composers refuse to die" ;)
You actually didn't get any straight answers from her other than a load of marketing BS that was wrapped nicely but still jammed up your backend all the same. I would be pretty infuriated by this, even if she gave me the chance to play at the Concertgebouw. Your work is just as valuable as that of those old geezers mentioned in the billing.
I think she was pretty genuine. There is one thing that differs from David Bruce and Mahler premieres. Mahler was a world renowned composer and especially orchestral chief at the time he directed his own works, so it was easier to sell tickets at the time with his name on. Also of course, the whole musical landscape was completely different. Classical music wasn't an outsider when it came to popularity.
We all know what David has been doing with his iPad! 😈
I think it is unfair to call Hiller "not so great" he's really underated
Although this is more true of new drama or theatre than music, it is a great investment of time and money to go to a performance. Sometimes you feel 'safer' going with something you know. I've been bitterly disappointed by watching something new and it being of poor quality. Not something that wasn't to my taste as much as something that left me feeling cheated. But that doesn't explain ignoring the fresh content completely as I think programmes that offer something you know and trust with the chance to hear something new is a perfect way of changing people's minds about moving away from more traditional fare.
The lick at 8:59
Seems pretty obvious to me, it's why cinema is so full of remakes and sequels. People like what's familiar, and they like what's proven to stand the test of time. If a piece has lasted two centuries and still gets played often, it's pretty much accepted to be good, you're not gambling with your money and your time if you go to that. If you're going to a performance that was written only a couple months ago... then who knows!?
a very large hall for a string quartet...
This level of attachment to celebrated, old composers is definitely one of the things that keeps me mostly outside orchestral music events.
Txs for another vlig. It is very depressing that contemporary Composers are so neglected when promoting a premiere. Another rather depressing fact is that the conditions for writing music has never been better as now...thinking of the time of Bach or Beethoven or even Dvorak and Holst, they did`nt have all the knowledge, diverisity, and experinece in composing that we can banquet limitless on now. Beside that the musicians were never so skilled and well educated as today. And even the instruments not that well developed. So it is an extremely sad fact that the Composers are almost turning invisible and out of the speak when we really should let the party get started when it comes to composing Music.And when it comes to the Dover Quartet, these are really my favorite musicians and I should envy you enormously for colabourating With them. But on the other hand I honestly find you such a gifted and good Composer, so you really deserves it!!! Anyhow...if you should talk to them and they would fancy to do some new Music once more...I do have written nine string Quartets...and they are gooood!!!
Well, my point is that the craft of composing did develop over time. They had to start from scratch back then and step by step achieve the different tools for creating music. Also the different musical instruments and the musical eduaction. Today the Composers can harvest all this knowledge and also the information not only through music theory books/schools, but also the vast amount of recordings of all types of music from all around the world. So I would love that a genius like Bach could live today to take advantage of all the possibilities we have for making music and indeed the extremely high level of the musicians and orchestras. I don`t think we are more distracted now compared to back then when it comes to composing, me as a Composer feel very humble and priviligated to live in this time of the history. It `s like being a child with free access to a huge candy store.
This is incredibly disrespectful.
I think the comment has a confirmed aspect
@@trudywretched Yes. Since David is too humble to spell it out I thought I'd underline that point.
@@HB-ve4wi Lol, if he were truly humble he _wouldn't_ have made a 10 minute video whining about it.