@@LodvarDude Agree but Gingi got banned once because they thought he was rotation botting and Blizz thought no one could play a rotation that perfectly 😂
I love how fast this happened, and how good a vibe it feels like it is. This just shows how valuable a clean race is. Previous lost races, Max has been mad and didn't want to talk to the other guys for a while, because he felt cheated by Blizz (never blamed Echo, but you could tell he was sore). This time, Max seems so calm and relaxed. Yup, Echo won fair and square, and no bullshit muddied up whether it was good or not. What a fantastic race this was. I can't wait for the next one.
@@eodyn7 I don't watch Echo ever so I don't know how they behaved last season. My comment was not meant to be a "Look how great Max is being" it was "look how cool the race is when it's balanced!" I think everyone can agree that this was the best balanced the race has ever been and it was FANTASTIC.
Max was just little bit salty towards a stream follower right after liquid killed fyrakk. Its sucks, that in race there will allways be one winner, but thats the name of the game. I love the spirit i this conversation, emotions calmed down, they are chillin and having good time, and for us fans its yet another treat. GJ guys, fantastic race, best of luck next time! P. S. Can't wait to see the boss being killed within minutes by both guilds. This could happend with Fyrakk. That would be INSANE 😂
The reason why you got the top comment above is because you are putting a lot or focus on "max being mad" as the only reason# which maybe wasn't your intention, but that's why he was correcting you and saying the animosity isn't just because "max was being mad" it was also because echo is terrible usually at behaving normally after a race. Like they suck. Good thing this race they talked different
Fronk, would love to see an upload of the post-fyrakk kill conversations as well as the tier list reacting/correcting in the days after the race. Maybe there needs to be a VoD channel at some point that can just have some of the edited discussions/rants that Max tends to go on over the course of any given stream.
Excellent discussion gents. This race was awesome as a spectator and your guilds are class acts. Much respect to all the guildies, casters, behind the scenes supporters, and production staff for such an awesome event from both Liquid and Echo!
With all due respect this is literally a meeting of the worlds most braniac wow players and it is such a great VOD that I only wish there was more. Appreciate both teams uploading this content for the viewers because I was literally hooked from the moment I opened this video up
Now please Fronk, if you're out there somewhere! Is it feasible to snatch the cams from each person's VOD, and edit them together so we can watch everyone at the same time? It's a ton of work, and probably more people listen to this than watch, but hey, a guy can dream, right? ;)
Hey Max, studies have been done, Long Haul Truck Drivers, often driving 12+ hours everyday across country highways while having to keep focus on what they are doing
What if they change augmentation to tank? Make it so they buff the raid/party, and use black and bronze magic to build defensives and turn back time. Takes the support role off of dps (but then makes aug mandatory maybe, idk)
Yeah if they did that, and augmentation still buffs the party/raid as a tank, it’s still mandatory. M+ groups will want an Aug tank, and it will feel much more mandatory than say vengeance does over the other tanks in m+, and in raid it’s obvious.
@@christaylor3604for M+ not necessarily true. If they fall over outside an “off tank” support raid role you would probably never bring them just for the damage to DPS. I dunno I don’t think it’s a bad idea but you would just have to make the damage increase akin to how DH or Monk contributes to raid damage and maybe just add some cooldowns to play around perhaps.
I still think the easiest "nerf" or "balance" for Aug is to just make their buffs a party buff - they already essentially are just that in m+ etc, but if the concern is that the average Augvoker will just buff 3-4 people constantly, but the top guilds can do crazy stuff constantly swapping round buff targets - and that then causes balancing issues - then just have the Augvoker buff one party within the raid - The RWF guilds will still get more out of the Aug, because the Augvoker is buffing better targets, but it is a much more linear scale than how the current balance works. Make Ebon Might and Prescience just party wide buffs to maintain, and add in an extra filler rotational spell to add a bit of complexity to the rotation that would be lost by making Prescience party wide (My issue with Prescience is that to use it effectively you essentially NEED to install several extra addons to create a separate frame for buff targets - I can't begin to imagine how much of a pain it must be to try and play Prescience effectively without any addons...) Before Augvoker was released Blizzard's argument for Augvoker not just buffing its party was that it would cause headaches for raid leaders to make sure that parties were set up correctly etc - but surely figuring out buff targets, if not buff rotations, and how that might effect positioning within the raid is a far bigger headache for raid leaders xD
Loved this discussion. I'm mostly a PvP guy but Ive been watching RWF since Method started streaming it and I love what it evolved into. Hopefully blizz can keep the quality of their future raids and also make more of them. It's my favourite time of the year whenever one comes out thanks to you guys
Yeah, Dratnos gave weird "well actually" vibes when I first saw him, but over time, either my view of him changed or he changed, still not sure which, but that guy is both smart and funny, in a really awkward way that I quite enjoy.
I will always root for Liquid but I have nothing against Echo, I think both teams are insane and each have their own likeable characters in there. Sadly it's always hard to keep up that thought when I see Echo fans bashing Liquid for no apparent reason (not saying it's not the other way around as well, I just don't see it as much myself) So hearing those talks and the comradery between you guys always builds me up again :3 I hope one day we will have global release, because besides the fact there will be no "headstart" or "bug-testers" anymore, I believe it would be so cool to watch both teams progress equally without one trying to catch up :D Also, any raiding event will be watched and hyped @Blizzard do something
Sometimes when I listen to these discussions all I hear is "make the game simpler like ff14 is so the balance will be perfect and remove a lot of the fun stuff" and that kind of hurts a bit. Like when one of the people from echo was making the argument that blizzard have made it too hard for themselves with tuning because they've added too many variables and specs to tune, which is absolutely true. But just sit down for a second and think about that again. The only solution to that would be to not add any more funs things to the game, no more new specs or classes to try out, no borrowed power just go full ff14. And as someone outside the race that sounds incredibly dull. I recognize that it would make the race way more fun for you guys, but would it actually make the game itself better? I'm not so sure. As just a regular raider and enjoyer of the game what I look the most forward to every expansion is new fun stuff to try out, be that new classes or new systems or new things to chase. It makes me excited, and I would sacrifice balance in a heartbeat to have that Disclaimer that this comment sounds like it comes from hate, but i'm genuinely just enjoying discussions like this. What is good game design, how do you balance the fun of the playerbase vs the race. All that good stuff These discussions are very cool, keep it up A lot of the discussions after are so interesting to hear. Glad that you make these so we can hear the view point of people planning for the race, super smart people
Would the race be better to have a 2 week gap between heroic and mythic? So splits arent super crazy gives more time to get a standardized ilvl across more guilds and you can go into mythic with far less splits and far less toll on players?
While I love the WFR as a viewer and am really sad that we have to wait 12 months to get a new one, bosses only on tournament realms will/should not happen. If Blizzard creates content it should be on live servers. But it would be fun to have single boss raids, however it should be in Normal, Heroic and Mythic. You can tune them for BiS in each segment since they would only exist a few months after the last raid, so by then everyone could get BiS anyway. They wouldn't drop gear but for example (a pet from normal, a mount from heroic and a title or transmog from Mythic). And it could be done more easily by using old bosses but with new mechanics. They might require some updates in models but the basis is still there. They can be up for 2 - 3 weeks so everyone gets enough time to get enough pulls in. Mythic will be down in a few days but that should be fine, heroic and normal shouldn't matter to high end guilds anyway. There are dozens of old bosses they can use in vanila, TBC and Wrath alone that could be updated and reimagined for this purpose.
Bro Echo are so fucked on sleep XD Meeres somehow doesn't need to sleep EVER, Xerwo is a prime degen (like me) and Scripe gets to sleep through pulls so he thinks it's an illusion. Poor Ken.
Hey, can anyone explain to me why the whole seed rep grind, that they talk about in the first 30 minutes, was so important? Afaik all you get from the rep is the permanent rune, no? Is there anything else related to player power that you could get? Why were they all so keen on grinding the rep?
I absolutely agree that 3 raids an expansion is unacceptable and pathetic. There is no excuse good enough for cutting the final tier of 2 expansions in a row now (three total including WoD) and the fated season is a joke, not content. We should also notice that DF had the lowest number of bosses ever, we didn't even get to 30 total... It's obvious Blizzard wants to diminish raiding as the main content pillar of WoW and just make it the most publicized among many equal endgame paths. Both DF and SL have been a spit in the face of the raiding community. I cant believe we have to look back fondly at BfA now for it being the last expansion with an acceptable number of raid content.
What I find really annoying about hc/myth at the same time is that I never know when to tune into the stream. I don't have that much time to watch everything, and I really don't want to watch splits xD I want to see the mythic bosses, but since the first few are usually one shots / low pull counts its really easy to miss them...
I've thought about it a lot today and the best possible answer to split raiding I can see is to completely remove boss gear lockouts in normal and heroic, and change mythic to the way heroic lockout currently works. This way you can refarm each boss with your core raid team much faster than using helpers, no one has to make 12 copies of the same class, gear is much more targettable and still has the strategy aspect of mythic. If you think that would make mythic splits a weird thing, they could just keep mythic as is. The biggest downside I see to this is players not having self control and burning themselves out but it DOES mean that WAY more guilds have a chance to actually compete without needing this enormous amount of resources and helpers that the race has become.
Blizz cant afford to do this because non world first guilds would need to subscribe FAR less. Theyd gear, progress, and unsub far quicker and lead to losses. Thats why they timegated everything in the first place.
I have one Question about the Max cook: Wouldnt there still be a RWF? Because normal raids still come out and people still want to be the first to clear it!
I actually think The War Within will come out sooner than they've announced. I think Fall 2024 is just a placeholder/pessimistic view. They will want to get it out sooner and may end up doing a summer release if they can.
they need to remove gear lockout from raiding tbh... there's no gear lockout in M+ and you can spam it alllllllll day long, so why exactly is there gear lockout in raids? it's not for burnout protection since M+ spam exists. if you wanted to argue that they don't want people to get tier guaranteed super fast okay sure then make tier pieces only acquirable through deterministic means, make tier the lockout only, OR idk... just let people get tier super fast and stop worrying about it??? it's such a stupid arbitrary wall and just prevents unlucky people from getting where they should be for like an extra 1 week... it's trash. anyway yeah, remove raid loot lockouts and then guess what? no more splits (at least like they are) really because you can just efficiently slam through with your guild instead of having to do these weird loot strats and a thousand runs with randoms passing gear.
You cant farm mythic gear in m+. At max you get 1 item per week, everything else is capped to heroic. If suddenly let you farm the mythic bosses over and over, get way better gear, they'd need to completely change how they tune bosses
Very informative about the race. I welcome opinions here; tell me if you disagree: When I look at a comparison of the two rosters for overall skill, I think Echo has a *slight* overall advantage. I could go role for role and compare to prove that, but it'd be a bunch of opinions and bullshit, but the people on their winning MDI teams are world fucking class for PvE. But for strategizing and planning, Liquid is CLEARLY the winner to me. Echo isn't bad, but Liquid's analytics team is giving them an advantage every race. So Echo has a slight advantage on skill overall, and Liquid might be better at the race itself. So much will depend on the fight design and tuning, but averaging 50/50.
Echo adapted last year to knowing they didn't need a strong strategy/planning team because they piggy back off Liquid's progression. We saw it on full display in the latest race where they copied every boss.
Max’s “cook” near the end I love but…again why TR? Let us have gearsets like WoD pvp in the instance and just slap a hard boss. Nothing but the pride of the kill or the fun of the prog. Yeah a lot of guilds won’t do it without the carrot on a stick but it doesn’t need to be TR to be awesome
Per Max's cook at the end, if they make a boss for "esports" there is no reason to not put it on live servers after the event. Don't have to nerf it for people to be able to kill it either. If no one can kill it on live, so be it.
Blizz has banned people for using 5% XP pot to stack buff. Abusing rep farm which in reality takes much more time than leveling from 0 to max probably would have resulted in bans but the RWF saved you.
Loved the podcast but the "remove specs" and balance the game more like ff is the worst take OAT, even among ff players the homogenisation is absolutely hated
There are moments in life where sleep does not matter. Your body’s fight/flight will carry. The whole emphasis on sleep is crazy. If anyone “needs” 10-12 hours of sleep then they have a medical condition and probably need exercise and a better diet.
The percent of the population that can perform cognitive tasks without error on 6 hours or less of sleep without impairment is less than 0.01% of the population. You’re factually incorrect.
@@Leftside08 I won’t go into my resume… over the course of time no human can perform with less than 6 hours of sleep. Your premise about perfect performance is nonsense. Liquid needed to be the best, the quickest. They were a pull away from that. Sleep had 0 to do with this race. The better team slept less while killing some of the hardest bosses that Blizzard has ever made. The human body is amazing and will fight through tough situations in short, stressful situations.
Comparing raiding capability with footballers where DNA is more of a variable than in esport is crazy. I mean there's probably some degree of DNA involved in esport as well but not at the same level and if you actual believe that you're not respecting athletes enough. They start their work when they are like 6-8 years old and they do it until they can't do it anymore. They are also chosen by their actual physical build. There are a lot more people that *could be* in a top 1-3 guild than there is people who *could ever* win the World Cup. *Esport is amazing,* but let's not try to fuse and/or compare these two worlds. They are different, doesn't mean anything bad.
I don't agree on the "1 raid boss" event max imagined : when you watch tgp/mdi you can relate from what you do in game ; so avec a boss that is just present in a tournament realm would be weird because maybe i (and my guild) want to do the boss ... but what's the point of not implementing it on live servers ? My vision would be more toward a tournament realm where you start with all heroic gear you want (but maybe not mm+ gear) and at each boss you kill gain +3 overall ilv on your gear => no more split and 8 year maths studies to know witch loot will go on who. So the balance of the raid would be more easy on Blizzard side because they know what gear you will have and can tune the boss with ptr testing. Going deaper let's say top 10 guilds get invited, the 5 first keep theire sit for the next season and the botom 5 get changes by the first 5 guilds on live servers so technicly every guilds can compeat but it's not open-bar. You can do more fancy things like only 25 raiders (or even 20 + 1 spare) from the same guild : so we don't have top guilds having 40 raiders, half of them on the bench ; witch in the end means more talented people in less knowed guilds => so more competition. Maybe only 2 classes per account so you need to prepare carefully your team comp in advence and probably having raiders that are able to switch form dps to healer for exemple. Being a tournament realm they cando whaterver they want : global realise ; realise 1 day before live so bring more people watching ; restrain uptime like only 8 hours every days between this and that (not sure about that thing but who knows ?) ... And all those things would not affect 99.5% of the MM guilds so it's fine, or at least that's my point of view.
It’s really disappointing that you couldn’t find a spot at the table for anyone from Method or Instant Dollars (or any other guild). Three Echo reps + Dr. Atnos and not a single person from the others? Disappointing.
![Eminem - Somebody Save Me (feat. Jelly Roll) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vwa0HenQMi4/mqdefault.jpg)
Max's increasing bromance with Dratnos is one of the highlights of this year
Make this a tradition! Awesome to hear both teams laugh at the same things. The differences in strategy and execution is incredibly fascinating
Only happens when Echo wins
Hearing Echo say Imfiredup isn't human made me smile.
What is the timing for this?
@@blacktooth90 1:52:11
It’s true tho. He’s a mage cyborg.
@@LodvarDude Agree but Gingi got banned once because they thought he was rotation botting and Blizz thought no one could play a rotation that perfectly 😂
I love how fast this happened, and how good a vibe it feels like it is. This just shows how valuable a clean race is. Previous lost races, Max has been mad and didn't want to talk to the other guys for a while, because he felt cheated by Blizz (never blamed Echo, but you could tell he was sore). This time, Max seems so calm and relaxed. Yup, Echo won fair and square, and no bullshit muddied up whether it was good or not.
What a fantastic race this was. I can't wait for the next one.
You mean like how Echo behaved last season?
@@eodyn7 I don't watch Echo ever so I don't know how they behaved last season. My comment was not meant to be a "Look how great Max is being" it was "look how cool the race is when it's balanced!" I think everyone can agree that this was the best balanced the race has ever been and it was FANTASTIC.
Max was just little bit salty towards a stream follower right after liquid killed fyrakk. Its sucks, that in race there will allways be one winner, but thats the name of the game. I love the spirit i this conversation, emotions calmed down, they are chillin and having good time, and for us fans its yet another treat.
GJ guys, fantastic race, best of luck next time!
P. S. Can't wait to see the boss being killed within minutes by both guilds. This could happend with Fyrakk. That would be INSANE 😂
The reason why you got the top comment above is because you are putting a lot or focus on "max being mad" as the only reason# which maybe wasn't your intention, but that's why he was correcting you and saying the animosity isn't just because "max was being mad" it was also because echo is terrible usually at behaving normally after a race. Like they suck. Good thing this race they talked different
Fronk, would love to see an upload of the post-fyrakk kill conversations as well as the tier list reacting/correcting in the days after the race. Maybe there needs to be a VoD channel at some point that can just have some of the edited discussions/rants that Max tends to go on over the course of any given stream.
both of these are coming dw
Lol there is a vod channel it just has never had an upload
The post raid chatting he was doing was just sad and embarrassing, drinking and complaining about the loss.
@@joshualuttrell7269 We clearly have very different concepts of entertainment, I like the whole experience and not just the cheerful stuff.
@@fronkaceanthanks Fronk, you’re the best
4:01:15 when an authoritative voice says "ok guys, last pull..." all of the players gain a 15% Givashit Versitility Buff
Kinda looking forward to this each race. Thanks for uploading.
This is the content I am here for, love when the race goes so well EVERYONE from Echo and Liquid have a blast and enjoy it
Excellent discussion gents. This race was awesome as a spectator and your guilds are class acts. Much respect to all the guildies, casters, behind the scenes supporters, and production staff for such an awesome event from both Liquid and Echo!
With all due respect this is literally a meeting of the worlds most braniac wow players and it is such a great VOD that I only wish there was more. Appreciate both teams uploading this content for the viewers because I was literally hooked from the moment I opened this video up
Now please Fronk, if you're out there somewhere! Is it feasible to snatch the cams from each person's VOD, and edit them together so we can watch everyone at the same time? It's a ton of work, and probably more people listen to this than watch, but hey, a guy can dream, right? ;)
only meeres streamed this with cam sadly, was looking into it but feels like 1 or 2 of 5 gets the same product at the end
@@fronkacean Oh that's sadge... but thanks a lot for responding! Yeah, I've seen that Meeres had a cam, thought others did as well.
Hey Max, studies have been done, Long Haul Truck Drivers, often driving 12+ hours everyday across country highways while having to keep focus on what they are doing
Hearing what Scripe said about sleep is so true. I'm guilty of waiting for sleep to come to me.
I get making money from ads but one every 4 minutes on a four hour video is ridiculous
Does anyone have a link to that BDG clip they talk about in the beginning ?
ruclips.net/user/shortsoAi1ojK5jas
What if they change augmentation to tank? Make it so they buff the raid/party, and use black and bronze magic to build defensives and turn back time. Takes the support role off of dps (but then makes aug mandatory maybe, idk)
Yeah if they did that, and augmentation still buffs the party/raid as a tank, it’s still mandatory. M+ groups will want an Aug tank, and it will feel much more mandatory than say vengeance does over the other tanks in m+, and in raid it’s obvious.
@@christaylor3604for M+ not necessarily true. If they fall over outside an “off tank” support raid role you would probably never bring them just for the damage to DPS. I dunno I don’t think it’s a bad idea but you would just have to make the damage increase akin to how DH or Monk contributes to raid damage and maybe just add some cooldowns to play around perhaps.
i'm getting a youtube add every 3 min. FML
Yeah, this is not watchable
I still think the easiest "nerf" or "balance" for Aug is to just make their buffs a party buff - they already essentially are just that in m+ etc, but if the concern is that the average Augvoker will just buff 3-4 people constantly, but the top guilds can do crazy stuff constantly swapping round buff targets - and that then causes balancing issues - then just have the Augvoker buff one party within the raid - The RWF guilds will still get more out of the Aug, because the Augvoker is buffing better targets, but it is a much more linear scale than how the current balance works.
Make Ebon Might and Prescience just party wide buffs to maintain, and add in an extra filler rotational spell to add a bit of complexity to the rotation that would be lost by making Prescience party wide (My issue with Prescience is that to use it effectively you essentially NEED to install several extra addons to create a separate frame for buff targets - I can't begin to imagine how much of a pain it must be to try and play Prescience effectively without any addons...)
Before Augvoker was released Blizzard's argument for Augvoker not just buffing its party was that it would cause headaches for raid leaders to make sure that parties were set up correctly etc - but surely figuring out buff targets, if not buff rotations, and how that might effect positioning within the raid is a far bigger headache for raid leaders xD
Loved this discussion. I'm mostly a PvP guy but Ive been watching RWF since Method started streaming it and I love what it evolved into. Hopefully blizz can keep the quality of their future raids and also make more of them. It's my favourite time of the year whenever one comes out thanks to you guys
Would be great to have a podcast version of this. Def want to get down on this on my commute.
As a viewer of the race to world first: fuck having no heroic week. Bring that back. Splits are so bad to watch.
This is going to be fantastic content for me to while at work tomorrow
First time I heard Drat I was like ok, I don't care about this guy, but within the first video I was like OK this dude is sharp, luv me some Dratty.
Weird crush but love is love. Let your freak flag fly!
Yeah, Dratnos gave weird "well actually" vibes when I first saw him, but over time, either my view of him changed or he changed, still not sure which, but that guy is both smart and funny, in a really awkward way that I quite enjoy.
Drat is the sleeper race to world first coverage mvp
@@TheOdMan He's just so relentlessly positive that he becomes infectious and easy to like
@@Skwiddddefinitely a 'wears you down/your walls down'kinda vibe which isnt necessarily a bad thing
Just one more video before bed
Bonefarmer never forget
There's such a disgusting amount of ads on this video.
holy spit the commercials
got halfway through and realized this is 5 hours long lol
Cool to see Liquid and Echo talking!
Just watched this entire video, great upload!
Watched 4 hour video when only posted 45 mins ago crazy speed
Fated Mythic Emerald Nightmare. Retune it so that the final boss is actually hard. Thematic with Dragonflight. That raid needs a redemption arc.
I like Max's cook but I do think they would eventually need to put that boss on live for people that don't wanna TR it.
I will always root for Liquid but I have nothing against Echo, I think both teams are insane and each have their own likeable characters in there. Sadly it's always hard to keep up that thought when I see Echo fans bashing Liquid for no apparent reason (not saying it's not the other way around as well, I just don't see it as much myself) So hearing those talks and the comradery between you guys always builds me up again :3
I hope one day we will have global release, because besides the fact there will be no "headstart" or "bug-testers" anymore, I believe it would be so cool to watch both teams progress equally without one trying to catch up :D Also, any raiding event will be watched and hyped @Blizzard do something
Sometimes when I listen to these discussions all I hear is "make the game simpler like ff14 is so the balance will be perfect and remove a lot of the fun stuff" and that kind of hurts a bit. Like when one of the people from echo was making the argument that blizzard have made it too hard for themselves with tuning because they've added too many variables and specs to tune, which is absolutely true. But just sit down for a second and think about that again. The only solution to that would be to not add any more funs things to the game, no more new specs or classes to try out, no borrowed power just go full ff14. And as someone outside the race that sounds incredibly dull. I recognize that it would make the race way more fun for you guys, but would it actually make the game itself better? I'm not so sure. As just a regular raider and enjoyer of the game what I look the most forward to every expansion is new fun stuff to try out, be that new classes or new systems or new things to chase. It makes me excited, and I would sacrifice balance in a heartbeat to have that
Disclaimer that this comment sounds like it comes from hate, but i'm genuinely just enjoying discussions like this. What is good game design, how do you balance the fun of the playerbase vs the race. All that good stuff
These discussions are very cool, keep it up
A lot of the discussions after are so interesting to hear. Glad that you make these so we can hear the view point of people planning for the race, super smart people
It doesn't mean that. A lot of complexity in this game is self driven.
Would the race be better to have a 2 week gap between heroic and mythic? So splits arent super crazy gives more time to get a standardized ilvl across more guilds and you can go into mythic with far less splits and far less toll on players?
From a purely competitive standpoint sure but at some point it starts detracting from things like entertainment and interest value too hard
While I love the WFR as a viewer and am really sad that we have to wait 12 months to get a new one, bosses only on tournament realms will/should not happen. If Blizzard creates content it should be on live servers. But it would be fun to have single boss raids, however it should be in Normal, Heroic and Mythic. You can tune them for BiS in each segment since they would only exist a few months after the last raid, so by then everyone could get BiS anyway. They wouldn't drop gear but for example (a pet from normal, a mount from heroic and a title or transmog from Mythic). And it could be done more easily by using old bosses but with new mechanics. They might require some updates in models but the basis is still there. They can be up for 2 - 3 weeks so everyone gets enough time to get enough pulls in. Mythic will be down in a few days but that should be fine, heroic and normal shouldn't matter to high end guilds anyway. There are dozens of old bosses they can use in vanila, TBC and Wrath alone that could be updated and reimagined for this purpose.
5 hours with these lovely nerds.
Bro Echo are so fucked on sleep XD Meeres somehow doesn't need to sleep EVER, Xerwo is a prime degen (like me) and Scripe gets to sleep through pulls so he thinks it's an illusion. Poor Ken.
Holy shit, 5 whole hours. That's wild.
After listenting to max's idea i think it would be good to try some wild as shit on 1 boss to test shit.
Could you have given the adds Source of Magic?
Hey, can anyone explain to me why the whole seed rep grind, that they talk about in the first 30 minutes, was so important?
Afaik all you get from the rep is the permanent rune, no? Is there anything else related to player power that you could get? Why were they all so keen on grinding the rep?
You get free wyrm crafting crest from renown 20.
that guys teeth in the thumbnail more yellow then a highlighter
I absolutely agree that 3 raids an expansion is unacceptable and pathetic. There is no excuse good enough for cutting the final tier of 2 expansions in a row now (three total including WoD) and the fated season is a joke, not content. We should also notice that DF had the lowest number of bosses ever, we didn't even get to 30 total... It's obvious Blizzard wants to diminish raiding as the main content pillar of WoW and just make it the most publicized among many equal endgame paths. Both DF and SL have been a spit in the face of the raiding community. I cant believe we have to look back fondly at BfA now for it being the last expansion with an acceptable number of raid content.
Adding someone from method could be cool.
I just started playing wow again, can anyone tell me this guy's UI addons?
What I learnt from this discussion: Liquid plans their entire strat around sleep and Echo are sleepless degens.
and the sleepless degens win lol
What I find really annoying about hc/myth at the same time is that I never know when to tune into the stream. I don't have that much time to watch everything, and I really don't want to watch splits xD I want to see the mythic bosses, but since the first few are usually one shots / low pull counts its really easy to miss them...
Fated Nighthold ... or tomb of sargeras 😮😮😮 im fkin down
Broooo so down for nighthold holdup letemcook
(Tho tbf tomb feels more ..fitting.. for how this tier is)
@@ThePolarpop im down for both loved legion
Bring more Liquid people on
I've thought about it a lot today and the best possible answer to split raiding I can see is to completely remove boss gear lockouts in normal and heroic, and change mythic to the way heroic lockout currently works. This way you can refarm each boss with your core raid team much faster than using helpers, no one has to make 12 copies of the same class, gear is much more targettable and still has the strategy aspect of mythic. If you think that would make mythic splits a weird thing, they could just keep mythic as is. The biggest downside I see to this is players not having self control and burning themselves out but it DOES mean that WAY more guilds have a chance to actually compete without needing this enormous amount of resources and helpers that the race has become.
Blizz cant afford to do this because non world first guilds would need to subscribe FAR less. Theyd gear, progress, and unsub far quicker and lead to losses. Thats why they timegated everything in the first place.
5 hours.... 😮
you are such a legend maximum really enjoy your vids
Max with the adds galore.
Scripe is right, sleep is an illusion. Have you ever seen it?
Saw Meeres upload yesterday, but cool talk.
Stay bricked
Much love
Been waiting for this!
I have one Question about the Max cook:
Wouldnt there still be a RWF?
Because normal raids still come out and people still want to be the first to clear it!
Dratnos wholesome AF
Ayooooo
Max please look at the ads on this vids. It's a nightmare one every 5 min...
I actually think The War Within will come out sooner than they've announced. I think Fall 2024 is just a placeholder/pessimistic view. They will want to get it out sooner and may end up doing a summer release if they can.
they need to remove gear lockout from raiding tbh... there's no gear lockout in M+ and you can spam it alllllllll day long, so why exactly is there gear lockout in raids? it's not for burnout protection since M+ spam exists.
if you wanted to argue that they don't want people to get tier guaranteed super fast okay sure then make tier pieces only acquirable through deterministic means, make tier the lockout only, OR idk... just let people get tier super fast and stop worrying about it??? it's such a stupid arbitrary wall and just prevents unlucky people from getting where they should be for like an extra 1 week... it's trash.
anyway yeah, remove raid loot lockouts and then guess what? no more splits (at least like they are) really because you can just efficiently slam through with your guild instead of having to do these weird loot strats and a thousand runs with randoms passing gear.
You cant farm mythic gear in m+.
At max you get 1 item per week, everything else is capped to heroic.
If suddenly let you farm the mythic bosses over and over, get way better gear, they'd need to completely change how they tune bosses
Very informative about the race. I welcome opinions here; tell me if you disagree: When I look at a comparison of the two rosters for overall skill, I think Echo has a *slight* overall advantage. I could go role for role and compare to prove that, but it'd be a bunch of opinions and bullshit, but the people on their winning MDI teams are world fucking class for PvE. But for strategizing and planning, Liquid is CLEARLY the winner to me. Echo isn't bad, but Liquid's analytics team is giving them an advantage every race. So Echo has a slight advantage on skill overall, and Liquid might be better at the race itself. So much will depend on the fight design and tuning, but averaging 50/50.
Echo adapted last year to knowing they didn't need a strong strategy/planning team because they piggy back off Liquid's progression. We saw it on full display in the latest race where they copied every boss.
Max’s “cook” near the end I love but…again why TR? Let us have gearsets like WoD pvp in the instance and just slap a hard boss. Nothing but the pride of the kill or the fun of the prog. Yeah a lot of guilds won’t do it without the carrot on a stick but it doesn’t need to be TR to be awesome
Fantastic
Please do this after every race, some of the best wow content.
Per Max's cook at the end, if they make a boss for "esports" there is no reason to not put it on live servers after the event. Don't have to nerf it for people to be able to kill it either. If no one can kill it on live, so be it.
An extra boss after fyrakk wouldve fit well imo
funny to hear another Greek commenting on the Greek economy and reality lol RIP my friend
What if instead of them creating a new boss for you. It would be the same raid as live but the entire raid would be tuned to your level.
delete Aug
Blizz has banned people for using 5% XP pot to stack buff. Abusing rep farm which in reality takes much more time than leveling from 0 to max probably would have resulted in bans but the RWF saved you.
Blizzard i know youre here buff flightstones for the love of god that currency is ass why am i gated by something thats so irritating to farm
Loved the podcast but the "remove specs" and balance the game more like ff is the worst take OAT, even among ff players the homogenisation is absolutely hated
There are moments in life where sleep does not matter. Your body’s fight/flight will carry. The whole emphasis on sleep is crazy. If anyone “needs” 10-12 hours of sleep then they have a medical condition and probably need exercise and a better diet.
The percent of the population that can perform cognitive tasks without error on 6 hours or less of sleep without impairment is less than 0.01% of the population. You’re factually incorrect.
@@Leftside08 I won’t go into my resume… over the course of time no human can perform with less than 6 hours of sleep.
Your premise about perfect performance is nonsense. Liquid needed to be the best, the quickest. They were a pull away from that. Sleep had 0 to do with this race. The better team slept less while killing some of the hardest bosses that Blizzard has ever made.
The human body is amazing and will fight through tough situations in short, stressful situations.
Comparing raiding capability with footballers where DNA is more of a variable than in esport is crazy. I mean there's probably some degree of DNA involved in esport as well but not at the same level and if you actual believe that you're not respecting athletes enough. They start their work when they are like 6-8 years old and they do it until they can't do it anymore. They are also chosen by their actual physical build. There are a lot more people that *could be* in a top 1-3 guild than there is people who *could ever* win the World Cup.
*Esport is amazing,* but let's not try to fuse and/or compare these two worlds. They are different, doesn't mean anything bad.
Scripe needs some serious teeth whitening in the thumbnail.
Not everyone is lucky enough to have fluoride in their water.
Should be fixed with photo editing. Presentation is everything and it’s unappealing to look at.
Feel like these can only happen when Echo wins. Have these happened when Echo has lost?
yes
Every time?
Look im interested in this conversation/content... but I'm not 5 hours interested.
The that's an easy fix, no? Just don't watch
Just watch a bit and then stop!
I watch bits when I'm exercising on the bike or something.
Just...skip to parts you care about..?..
7:00 - "We spent a bunch of money preparing to exploit something but they fixed it so we're mad." If you have that kind of mentality - screw you.
I don't agree on the "1 raid boss" event max imagined : when you watch tgp/mdi you can relate from what you do in game ; so avec a boss that is just present in a tournament realm would be weird because maybe i (and my guild) want to do the boss ... but what's the point of not implementing it on live servers ?
My vision would be more toward a tournament realm where you start with all heroic gear you want (but maybe not mm+ gear) and at each boss you kill gain +3 overall ilv on your gear => no more split and 8 year maths studies to know witch loot will go on who. So the balance of the raid would be more easy on Blizzard side because they know what gear you will have and can tune the boss with ptr testing.
Going deaper let's say top 10 guilds get invited, the 5 first keep theire sit for the next season and the botom 5 get changes by the first 5 guilds on live servers so technicly every guilds can compeat but it's not open-bar.
You can do more fancy things like only 25 raiders (or even 20 + 1 spare) from the same guild : so we don't have top guilds having 40 raiders, half of them on the bench ; witch in the end means more talented people in less knowed guilds => so more competition.
Maybe only 2 classes per account so you need to prepare carefully your team comp in advence and probably having raiders that are able to switch form dps to healer for exemple.
Being a tournament realm they cando whaterver they want : global realise ; realise 1 day before live so bring more people watching ; restrain uptime like only 8 hours every days between this and that (not sure about that thing but who knows ?) ...
And all those things would not affect 99.5% of the MM guilds so it's fine, or at least that's my point of view.
It’s really disappointing that you couldn’t find a spot at the table for anyone from Method or Instant Dollars (or any other guild). Three Echo reps + Dr. Atnos and not a single person from the others? Disappointing.
Like, Method was on Fyrakk at the same time as y’all
why would he bother with low tier scrubs bro? u think he also give a shit about u? lmao
The whole point of this is talking about the title race, and there is only two guilds in the title race in wow atm, not even close.
@@kayladecant7332 The killed it the reset after 1st and 2nd. They're playing a division below.
@@GruulBS there is only one Guild and thats not Liquid/Limit they lose with an advantage thats ridiculous. NA is bad in PvE and PvP haha
Stop justifying your exploits. Yes, they should not have nerfed it, that doesn't make it right in any way though.
What exploit ?
max coping so hard lol