The GX has a TORSEN LIMITED-SLIP center differential... it is supposed to allow the wheels to slip which is exactly what happened to the 550 on the rear rollers. The TORque SENsing center diff won't "lock up" until it senses increased speed/torque. The slow slipping in this test wasnt enough to lock up the 550 and that's exactly what it's designed to do. Once you lock the center on the 550 it behaves like the 4runner. The Torsen center on a GX allows for fulltime 4wd ON-road... it needs to slip to drive all 4 wheels on pavement... a 460 and 470 will do the exact same with an unlocked center as the 550 on that rear roller test
@@UporaFilms depends on use case. you can't drive a partime 4wd system around in 4hi/lo in dry road conditions. the Fulltime 4wd system can do it. For most people the full-time system is superior as it requires no switching based on conditions and requires no effort.
I love these roller tests, You can tell how every vehicle is going to perform before even putting it on the rig. Put one wheel of an open diff/axle on the roller and it won't go anywhere without traction control(that operates the abs system, nothing will happen for traction control systems that cuts engine power) An unlocked center diff vs a parttime 4wd in 4hi isn't an apples comparison.
So the GX failed one test yet the 4runner passed all tests and the GX wins because it's smoother lol? Not sure someone would give a fk in real offroad conditions..
Sorry to be a bit tough on you, but I gotta say, it's always funny watching vehicle testers that don't understand how full time 4wd systems work. This is not like a part time system. A full time system relies on a certain level of slip in order to send power to the front. In other words, with the center diff unlocked, and ZERO traction in the rear (GX550) obviously the front wheels won't turn, because it's an open center differential. That's why there's a center diff lock button. There is no traction control in the center diff. . Thus no power available to go to the front axles, so power just goes to the wheels that have zero traction. The reason for this is that there is ZERO traction on the rear wheels. If they even had slight traction, you would have likely felt "some" power going to the front, but this is NORMAL operational constraints for any full time system. This is how these systems are designed. The second you lock the center diff, naturally you have now locked 50/50 power to the front, and using MTS/ATRAC etc systems will force power side/side which will get you out of most situations. Toyota's system is extremely good actually, one of the best out there - even without using locking diffs :) It's just about knowing how to use them :)
Always got how it worked, it’s just eye opening to see how it reacts in certain specific situations. Thanks for watching and dropping a comment. I’m curious to see how other vehicles will compare, like say a Subaru full time AWD system
@@CarsNoCap Yes well perhaps I should have clarified a bit more, it probably has less to do with the fact that it's full time, and more to do with the fact that Toyota's system is very robust and needs to be counted on in very demanding situations, thus they use a Torsen system, and uses a centre differential rather than the clutch based systems that other manufacturers use which can generate a large amount of heat, and don't usually use a centre differential, thus limiting the amount of slip prior to degrading heat buildup etc. Toyota's system can be relied on for severe service use in the desert as well as the arctic. It's very robust and strong - but has to be built that way because they're used in land cruisers and military spec in many countries. Newer Subarus have a decent system overall, but struggle a bit more due to it being only software/brake based, and lacking a true locking centre diff etc.
On the 5th Gen 4runner, in 4Hi traction control remains on which is why it pulled off the rollers almost instantly. In 4Lo it shuts off all wheel speed sensing traction aids, it's up to you to dial in what you need whether it's Atrac, Crawl Control, Terrain Response, or RR diff lock. ATrac can also be engaged in 4Hi, it pulses the brakes harder than regular traction control which is why it seems to fly off the rollers.
The assumption of buying a full-time 4wd is that the front wheels are going to be turning FULL TIME. I've read some of the disclaimers about how a limited slip system works from other viewers, but either way it is deceptive in my opinion. Lexus leads people to BELIEVE that it is FULL-TIME. They should do a better job describing their product... perhaps saying that the GX has a FULL-TIME LIMITED SLIP 4WD differential. I think that would be more accurate and less deceptive.
I agree it’s surprising to see how it actually works but the reality is that it’s a great system and they are one of the best, if not the best in real world applications. I used to take my GX off road and never had think about locking the diff because it always found traction. I will test some other systems soon to compare! Thanks for watching
Wow, a smoother crawl control for double the money. I will take the rougher 4runner with so many more tools than crawl control alone. But, that's just me.
The GX has a Torsen or torque sensing differential. Until you lock the center differential it will transfer power front and rear and not lock itself to turn around in tight areas off road or on slippery hard packed surfaces. Once you lock it the algorithm prioritizes maximum traction for off road conditions sending more power by locking up more forcefully with A-Trac. So on road leave it unlocked to slip. Offroad lock the differential to gain maximum traction.
Yeah it makes sense it would act this way on the rollers, it was still surprising to see, I thought it still might send some power to the front but it didn’t
@CarsNoCap the fact it didn't send any at all makes me think this new generation torsen is sending more then 70% to the rear. On the old gx460/4runner v8 it sent 40/60 front and rear and up to 30/70 around corners but only sent 50/50 when locked. I'm thinking this new generation is sending almost 90% to the rear wheels. Or the truck could think it was on a dyno with only the rear wheels spinning for emissions, diagnostics or testing.
@@CarsNoCap It should have(sent some useful power to the front). It does not look like it will be that useful on icy roads and such, when you don't want the center locked due to intermittent dry pavement. I'm pretty sure I have seen some other 4 auto systems do better on the rollers. But I'm not certain. But the Honda systems definitely do better, although they don't really have a center dif that might need to be locked. However they transfer power front to rear, left to right, they will drive right off of any of those roller combinations even in "normal" mode. I think that is what I would prefer in a "auto" situation: the ability to quickly send useful power to the wheels that can use it, even if not quite as much as in a locked situation. This certainly explains the video the guy from WA state did with a Lexus, having a huge struggle to get up a snow covered dirt road on a steep hill. He finally, near the top, remembered to lock the center dif and went right up, no problems.
At the end of the day it does have a more advanced system, the updated crawl control is what gave it the slight edge, but it’s truthfully hard to declare a winner because it’s a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Although still fun to compare
You showed on 4R atrac isn't required because even 4hi has traction control and therefore just one wheel with traction will get you unstuck. 4lo and atrac not required. 4lo has no traction control and will stay stuck until you turn atrac on.
4H on the 4Runner did not work consistently on 3 rollers just fyi. Atrac was required to pull me off. The time it pulled me off in just 4H the roller was slipping.
The 4H-N-4L lever in the 4Runner/FJ Cruiser is meant for reliability. You know the engagement of these in a positive mechanical way, and it doesn't matter if you are on a slope or if the servo-motor engaged by the buttons is stuck or inoperative because of lack of use or corrosion. Same with manually locking hubs, you can lock them without having any forward/backward movement to engage automatic locking hubs. The work 100% of the time when you need them most. In the 4Runner and automatic FJ, moving from 2WD to 4H/4L locks the center diff mechanically. The fulltime 4WD FJ manual has a center torsion and would behave the same as the GX (i.e. need some speed on the road (maybe 10-15 mph) to engage) unless you switch to 4H (also 4L) which locks it mechanically. The GX here does it probably using a servo-motor. MTS should require center diff to be locked to work; they should automatically do it when MTS is turned on and not expect you to press the center diff lock button. You shouldn't have to find out the way you did, and could end up in a white knuckle situation without knowing what is going on. Throttle modulation on the 4Runner/FJ can be easily modified using electronic boxes like a "pedal commander" to whatever suits the situation. I think the 4Runner gas pedal is setup so you accelerate slowly to save gas. You need to be past at least 40% down to get much out of it. I don't think the GX has the green "ECO" light in the dashboard either.
All greatest points and I agree about MTS, you would think it would lock it up. I was a surprised by that, also good point about the throttle modulation on the 4Runner I’d like to get a pedal commander soon. Thanks for the insight and for watching!
The Toyota benchmark 0:15 & 0:30 is a 4Runner and GX460? I’ve owned both those and a 2020 Land Cruiser, for me it’s been 4Runner < GX < LC. The LC is a whole different ballgame.
Would it be possible to do another test to see how long it takes for the GX's rear wheels to spin before the front differential engages without having to use the rear or center locking button to engage?
I applied the throttle for a while and the front wheels never engaged. I would like to try again and re-test rock mode in MTS but I’m not sure if even that would lock the center diff. I’ll have the new LC in January and will retry this test
On the 2 wheel test on the gx you mentioned used MTS in mud mode. I think mud mode may actually allow more wheel slip. I think dirt mode will decrease wheel slip and may allow it to move off the rollers.
Torsen and Full Time 4WD all day. Start learning with the older vehicles before showing off the newer tech. When you say any Land Cruiser system not working it’s usually the person in the hot seat..
Nice! Love the LX. I was just a little surprised it didn’t send ANY power to the front, it makes sense when you think about it, but still interesting to see imo.
Nice video! If you have an all-time AWD car that does not work the way it should... it loses. Compare prices as well; because both cars get you unstuck with the same drive modes, however, one will set you back $20-30k more. that seems a bit important What is the clearance height for both?
Agree definitely worth it to consider purchase prices and I actually think this is the way the open Torsen diff is supposed to perform in this scenario, it’s just interesting to see!
Sooo all the excuses for the GX claim this is meant to work like this? Think about that for a moment.. they are saying it is meant to get stuck! That 4wd system until you lock the center diff is just an AWD. Even the MTS is useless until you lock the center diff. Try this in a LandRover Defender or Jeep Wrangler or GC. At least the 4Runner performs how an offroad SUV should.
The Lexus did horribly compared to the 4Runner. You should've been able to get off the rollers without engaging crawl control. Perhaps it was operator error that you couldn't get off the rollers in the Lexus without using crawl control. You even locked the center diff and still couldn't get it off the rollers. The 4Runner did everything you asked it to do without you having to engage crawl control.
Center diff won’t get it off 3 rollers, it was the same result on the 4R in 4H. Lexus didn’t do terrible this test just really shows the differences between the two types of systems.
the 4runner didn't "outperform" the GX550. The GX has fulltime 4wd and is _designed to slip_ under these very conditions so it can work ON-road. The 550 did exactly what it was designed to do.
The GX has a TORSEN LIMITED-SLIP center differential... it is supposed to allow the wheels to slip which is exactly what happened to the 550 on the rear rollers. The TORque SENsing center diff won't "lock up" until it senses increased speed/torque. The slow slipping in this test wasnt enough to lock up the 550 and that's exactly what it's designed to do. Once you lock the center on the 550 it behaves like the 4runner. The Torsen center on a GX allows for fulltime 4wd ON-road... it needs to slip to drive all 4 wheels on pavement... a 460 and 470 will do the exact same with an unlocked center as the 550 on that rear roller test
Yeah this makes sense and what I was thinking, interesting to see
@CarsNoCap if you put a 470 and 460 on the rollers it will do the same... great video keep up the fantastic videos ❤ ✌️
so 4wd>AWD?
@@UporaFilms depends on use case. you can't drive a partime 4wd system around in 4hi/lo in dry road conditions. the Fulltime 4wd system can do it. For most people the full-time system is superior as it requires no switching based on conditions and requires no effort.
I love these roller tests, You can tell how every vehicle is going to perform before even putting it on the rig. Put one wheel of an open diff/axle on the roller and it won't go anywhere without traction control(that operates the abs system, nothing will happen for traction control systems that cuts engine power) An unlocked center diff vs a parttime 4wd in 4hi isn't an apples comparison.
Everytime there is a comparison to the 4runner. I appreciate my 2021 4runner even more. Thanks for video!
Yeah I’m a big fan of the 4Runner myself! Thanks for watching
I THINK THE SAME THING BUT ABOUT MY V8
@@UncleMoes YES !!! My 03 4x4 V8 4runner is a Boss❤
@@vincesmith764 Best 4runners! Tows 7200lbs. Even the new runner can't come close.
Agreed!
That GX is very nice! But 4Runner is like a Glock, it just works
Thats a great way to describe the 4Runner
Gee… I don’t know. My S&W has never failed me. 😏.
Toyota and their infinitely wisdom something from 09 looks superior to 13 years worth of tech
So the GX failed one test yet the 4runner passed all tests and the GX wins because it's smoother lol? Not sure someone would give a fk in real offroad conditions..
4Runner is the poor man’s GX550. I don’t have 80k to blow on a vehicle but I was able to swing 38k on a used 22 TRD ORP.
I feel that. The 4Runner is an amazing value!
I do i love my 550 OT+ it kills it off-road
Sorry to be a bit tough on you, but I gotta say, it's always funny watching vehicle testers that don't understand how full time 4wd systems work. This is not like a part time system. A full time system relies on a certain level of slip in order to send power to the front. In other words, with the center diff unlocked, and ZERO traction in the rear (GX550) obviously the front wheels won't turn, because it's an open center differential. That's why there's a center diff lock button. There is no traction control in the center diff. . Thus no power available to go to the front axles, so power just goes to the wheels that have zero traction. The reason for this is that there is ZERO traction on the rear wheels. If they even had slight traction, you would have likely felt "some" power going to the front, but this is NORMAL operational constraints for any full time system. This is how these systems are designed. The second you lock the center diff, naturally you have now locked 50/50 power to the front, and using MTS/ATRAC etc systems will force power side/side which will get you out of most situations. Toyota's system is extremely good actually, one of the best out there - even without using locking diffs :) It's just about knowing how to use them :)
Always got how it worked, it’s just eye opening to see how it reacts in certain specific situations. Thanks for watching and dropping a comment. I’m curious to see how other vehicles will compare, like say a Subaru full time AWD system
@@CarsNoCap Yes well perhaps I should have clarified a bit more, it probably has less to do with the fact that it's full time, and more to do with the fact that Toyota's system is very robust and needs to be counted on in very demanding situations, thus they use a Torsen system, and uses a centre differential rather than the clutch based systems that other manufacturers use which can generate a large amount of heat, and don't usually use a centre differential, thus limiting the amount of slip prior to degrading heat buildup etc. Toyota's system can be relied on for severe service use in the desert as well as the arctic. It's very robust and strong - but has to be built that way because they're used in land cruisers and military spec in many countries. Newer Subarus have a decent system overall, but struggle a bit more due to it being only software/brake based, and lacking a true locking centre diff etc.
@@rjhein 💯 ❤
On the 5th Gen 4runner, in 4Hi traction control remains on which is why it pulled off the rollers almost instantly.
In 4Lo it shuts off all wheel speed sensing traction aids, it's up to you to dial in what you need whether it's Atrac, Crawl Control, Terrain Response, or RR diff lock.
ATrac can also be engaged in 4Hi, it pulses the brakes harder than regular traction control which is why it seems to fly off the rollers.
It got stuck in just 4H, the roller actually slipped the first time
On the 3 roller test that is, 2 rollers was easy in 4H
The assumption of buying a full-time 4wd is that the front wheels are going to be turning FULL TIME. I've read some of the disclaimers about how a limited slip system works from other viewers, but either way it is deceptive in my opinion. Lexus leads people to BELIEVE that it is FULL-TIME. They should do a better job describing their product... perhaps saying that the GX has a FULL-TIME LIMITED SLIP 4WD differential. I think that would be more accurate and less deceptive.
I agree it’s surprising to see how it actually works but the reality is that it’s a great system and they are one of the best, if not the best in real world applications. I used to take my GX off road and never had think about locking the diff because it always found traction. I will test some other systems soon to compare! Thanks for watching
4 runner is the best car on the planet right next to 200 LC
Won’t argue that
The 4Runner can have atrac on the front and Locker on the rear at the same time. The Lexus system is similar?
GX is more street vehicle not a true off road like the 4Runner.
Wow, a smoother crawl control for double the money. I will take the rougher 4runner with so many more tools than crawl control alone. But, that's just me.
I hear you, the 4Runner is a beast
The GX has a Torsen or torque sensing differential. Until you lock the center differential it will transfer power front and rear and not lock itself to turn around in tight areas off road or on slippery hard packed surfaces. Once you lock it the algorithm prioritizes maximum traction for off road conditions sending more power by locking up more forcefully with A-Trac. So on road leave it unlocked to slip. Offroad lock the differential to gain maximum traction.
Yeah it makes sense it would act this way on the rollers, it was still surprising to see, I thought it still might send some power to the front but it didn’t
@CarsNoCap the fact it didn't send any at all makes me think this new generation torsen is sending more then 70% to the rear. On the old gx460/4runner v8 it sent 40/60 front and rear and up to 30/70 around corners but only sent 50/50 when locked. I'm thinking this new generation is sending almost 90% to the rear wheels. Or the truck could think it was on a dyno with only the rear wheels spinning for emissions, diagnostics or testing.
@@CarsNoCap It should have(sent some useful power to the front). It does not look like it will be that useful on icy roads and such, when you don't want the center locked due to intermittent dry pavement. I'm pretty sure I have seen some other 4 auto systems do better on the rollers. But I'm not certain. But the Honda systems definitely do better, although they don't really have a center dif that might need to be locked. However they transfer power front to rear, left to right, they will drive right off of any of those roller combinations even in "normal" mode. I think that is what I would prefer in a "auto" situation: the ability to quickly send useful power to the wheels that can use it, even if not quite as much as in a locked situation.
This certainly explains the video the guy from WA state did with a Lexus, having a huge struggle to get up a snow covered dirt road on a steep hill. He finally, near the top, remembered to lock the center dif and went right up, no problems.
The gx struggled in most tests but it slightly won 🤔
At the end of the day it does have a more advanced system, the updated crawl control is what gave it the slight edge, but it’s truthfully hard to declare a winner because it’s a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Although still fun to compare
You showed on 4R atrac isn't required because even 4hi has traction control and therefore just one wheel with traction will get you unstuck. 4lo and atrac not required. 4lo has no traction control and will stay stuck until you turn atrac on.
4H on the 4Runner did not work consistently on 3 rollers just fyi. Atrac was required to pull me off. The time it pulled me off in just 4H the roller was slipping.
Disagree. Performance/outcome to cost ratio.. 4Runner beats the pants off that thing.
When you take cost into account, I agree. 4Runner is a huge value
The 4H-N-4L lever in the 4Runner/FJ Cruiser is meant for reliability. You know the engagement of these in a positive mechanical way, and it doesn't matter if you are on a slope or if the servo-motor engaged by the buttons is stuck or inoperative because of lack of use or corrosion. Same with manually locking hubs, you can lock them without having any forward/backward movement to engage automatic locking hubs. The work 100% of the time when you need them most.
In the 4Runner and automatic FJ, moving from 2WD to 4H/4L locks the center diff mechanically. The fulltime 4WD FJ manual has a center torsion and would behave the same as the GX (i.e. need some speed on the road (maybe 10-15 mph) to engage) unless you switch to 4H (also 4L) which locks it mechanically. The GX here does it probably using a servo-motor.
MTS should require center diff to be locked to work; they should automatically do it when MTS is turned on and not expect you to press the center diff lock button. You shouldn't have to find out the way you did, and could end up in a white knuckle situation without knowing what is going on.
Throttle modulation on the 4Runner/FJ can be easily modified using electronic boxes like a "pedal commander" to whatever suits the situation. I think the 4Runner gas pedal is setup so you accelerate slowly to save gas. You need to be past at least 40% down to get much out of it. I don't think the GX has the green "ECO" light in the dashboard either.
All greatest points and I agree about MTS, you would think it would lock it up. I was a surprised by that, also good point about the throttle modulation on the 4Runner I’d like to get a pedal commander soon. Thanks for the insight and for watching!
The Toyota benchmark 0:15 & 0:30 is a 4Runner and GX460? I’ve owned both those and a 2020 Land Cruiser, for me it’s been 4Runner < GX < LC. The LC is a whole different ballgame.
Would love to test that generation LC next
You mean the old Land Cruiser? The new Gen is just a plain Jane version of the GX 550.
@@BGood496 Yes, 2020 is the second to last year of the 200 series. It’s the best off-roader I’ve ever owned.
Awesome presentation 👏🏻 👌🏻
Hey thank you! Appreciate it!
Anyway, I'll be seeing you at the mall next week.
🤙🏽
Would it be possible to do another test to see how long it takes for the GX's rear wheels to spin before the front differential engages without having to use the rear or center locking button to engage?
I applied the throttle for a while and the front wheels never engaged. I would like to try again and re-test rock mode in MTS but I’m not sure if even that would lock the center diff. I’ll have the new LC in January and will retry this test
I wish someone would make aftermarket metal fender liners for the 460, I keep breaking mine on rocks
Curious to see the new Land Cruiser in comparison as well. I want to see how its worth with its new price tag. 🤔
I do too, I’ll be testing the new Landcruiser on this same test in January!
it will be exactly the same as the 550. zero reason to waste time doing it.
On the 2 wheel test on the gx you mentioned used MTS in mud mode. I think mud mode may actually allow more wheel slip. I think dirt mode will decrease wheel slip and may allow it to move off the rollers.
Yeah possibly, I did try a few of the other modes off camera and didn’t have any luck though
4runner is a beast
100%
I’ll stick with my 4Runner.❤
I do love my 4R
Torsen and Full Time 4WD all day. Start learning with the older vehicles before showing off the newer tech. When you say any Land Cruiser system not working it’s usually the person in the hot seat..
The system was working as intended, this is how an open center diff functions on rollers, doesn’t matter who is driving
@ no need to reassure me lol I’m an LX owner and the system I’m very familiar with.
Nice! Love the LX. I was just a little surprised it didn’t send ANY power to the front, it makes sense when you think about it, but still interesting to see imo.
Should have used a Gen 5 4Runner Limited. Its 4wd system is closer to the Lexus' and the new Land Cruiser.
Yeah I’ll have to get a Gen 5 limited soon, and I’ll be testing the new LC in a few weeks! Come back and check it out!
@CarsNoCap I plan on it. Great video, BTW.
@@thebeast9606 awesome, thanks! That video should be up mid February, I’ll be testing the LC during the last week of January
I do not agree with you saying the GX is the winner. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me.
Has your wife come around to driving the 4Runner yet?
Lol she has not. I’m still hopeful.
Maybe I’m old but I prefer the 4Runner simplicity without needing crawl control/locked center diff for minor off road obstacles
There’s definitely something nice about simplicity, I really enjoy having the manual transfer case, less stuff to break
Nice video!
If you have an all-time AWD car that does not work the way it should... it loses.
Compare prices as well; because both cars get you unstuck with the same drive modes, however, one will set you back $20-30k more. that seems a bit important
What is the clearance height for both?
Agree definitely worth it to consider purchase prices and I actually think this is the way the open Torsen diff is supposed to perform in this scenario, it’s just interesting to see!
It’s full time 4WD, not all time AWD. As many other commenters have stated, this is how full time 4WD works.. lock your center diffs for 4x4!
@@mr2ti41 or spin the tires faster if you have a Limited slip center diff like the GX/LC has
Sooo all the excuses for the GX claim this is meant to work like this? Think about that for a moment.. they are saying it is meant to get stuck!
That 4wd system until you lock the center diff is just an AWD. Even the MTS is useless until you lock the center diff.
Try this in a LandRover Defender or Jeep Wrangler or GC. At least the 4Runner performs how an offroad SUV should.
I was surprised by the result too, I have to test out the LandRover!
Very interesting 🤔
Yeah I was surprised
The Lexus did horribly compared to the 4Runner. You should've been able to get off the rollers without engaging crawl control. Perhaps it was operator error that you couldn't get off the rollers in the Lexus without using crawl control. You even locked the center diff and still couldn't get it off the rollers. The 4Runner did everything you asked it to do without you having to engage crawl control.
Center diff won’t get it off 3 rollers, it was the same result on the 4R in 4H. Lexus didn’t do terrible this test just really shows the differences between the two types of systems.
I own a 5th gen 4Runner ORP... I am absolutely shocked it outperformed the GX550 in this slip test.
4R is a legend
the 4runner didn't "outperform" the GX550. The GX has fulltime 4wd and is _designed to slip_ under these very conditions so it can work ON-road. The 550 did exactly what it was designed to do.
Lock. The. Center. Diff. I’m realizing that from this one video that people don’t really understand how full time 4WD works.
it's an unimpressive win...$20K more than the 4runner is not worth it...