I too used to love those LDARC 1103 7500 Kv motors. I fly a King Kong/LDARC ET100 as my daily driver [a chonky 104g AUW]. Since 2018. Recently, I switched the stock KK 1935 props [utter garbage, btw] for some Gemfan D51s. They fit the stock 1.9 inch hoops perfectly, turning a potato-grade maxi-whoop into a smooth little ducted cinewhoop. Even better, I built a version of the ET100 [a McWhoop, if you will] with a set of LDARC 1104 7500 Kv motors last year [112g AUW] but found it was under-propped and shelved it. When I got the D51s last month I gave them a try on it, and wow. Now it is the best-flying thing I've ever flown, replacing the 1103-powered one I'd flown for years. I run BF 4.3.1, and Bluejay 0.16 [Rosser, Spatz & JB helped me with the tune]. I recently watched your viddie on micro setup in BF 4.3, tried some of the things you mentioned, which made a noticeable difference to an already excellent tune [I've been developing it for years]. My style is totally different [indoor, Angle mode] but you still had some helpful advice. Thanks much.
Love your vids and builds they look super. If they were easier to buy as a kit I would've been flying one. Just wondering have you tried the Gemfan 2540 props I have a build with 1104 and those props work great but there not so durable but they are light. Cheers always great to see you fly
In terms of a kit would something like a complete kit to self build be of interest? I have some 2540s but don’t use them because the hub is very loose. With loose hubs I tend to get breakage of the nylon props screws too easily.
I really appreciate your videos and the depth of your research. I seldom comment on RUclips videos, but I wanted to thank you for all the help you've been to this "Senior Nerd" I do have a question... Do you have a particular data loggers you recommend? Any to avoid?
Thanks for the info! I was eyeing these motors and not surprisingly found your video again. You mentioned the prop area to weight ratio, AKA disk loading. I always had this question, if we think five inches has a really nice flying feel, and want to replicate their disk loading in 2.5 inch quads, the target AUW would be something like 150 grams, assuming a 600 gram AUW for a five inch. With 150 grams of AUW, we can put on big motors like 1404 motors and big batteries and getting close to the 10:1 or 9:1 thrust weight ratio that typical five inch quads have. So we'll have similar power and floatiness/"parachute effect" as the five inches. But 150 grams seems ridiculously heavy for a 2.5 inch quad, compared to how heavy we typically build them. I don't know if there is anything I'm missing or the physical scaling doesn't work as I calculated. I'm curious if you have any insights.
Aerodynamically things definitely don’t scale in a linear way. With that said, someone like Ciotti will build much heavier micros to get throw that is more like a 5 inch. In that case 150 gm AUW is probably not all that far off. My builds are optimized for flying in small spaces where you want much more air braking/less inertia. In my flying space a 150 gm 2.5 inch would be able to throw past the neighbors house.
@@Quad66 That makes sense, small spaces requires less throw-ability, and it means lower disk loading, and hence lighter micro quads. My flying space is a little bit larger but not by much, and I was actually trying to find components for a 96 gram AUM 2 inch quad to match the disk loading and thrust weight ratio of a 600 gram 5 inch, and the challenge was finding the power train setup to provide the thrust given the unusual target weight. These 1104 on 3s for 2 inch might be a good candidate if the thrust table from tmotor can be trusted and the batteries can deliver that much burst amps.
@@Quad66 I don't have particular preference, just trying to see if the idea is viable first. Maybe the 2023 tri-blade for these 1104 on 3S could work? Flywoo 1203 seems don't have high enough kv for 2 inch props on 2S, maybe 4S with the 5500Kv version is powerful enough. I was checking out tmotor m1103 motors and was puzzled by the fact that their 8000kv 4S is less efficient than 11000kv 3S for 2015 bi-blades (I don't know how scientific their published data is), then stumbled on these m1104 motors. Too bad the ldarc 1103 is only rated for 2S. I'll probably should go with these m1104 motors.
Love your work. How do you feel about 1104-9000 KV On a 3-in prop? Or would I be beneficial to have inches. I have them on a 2-in now and it's just not good enough
It would probably work with a biblade, the Emax Avia in particular are easier to spin which may help with the slightly smaller motor. I would try it as well with 2.5 inch triblades as that will likely be quite good.
@@Quad66 do you find the ldarc 65mm bi blade props better than the azure 2540? I got some on the way. Maybe you could also add some motor output Limit down to 90%, so that you dont push the high kv too hard
@@chrisbee5481 the ldarc/kk 65 mm biblades don’t really handle much more than an 1102. They are just to thin and flatten/flutter in the air and get chewed up on the ground.
It will work. I do think 1204 is the right size for light 3 inch props. You can still be pretty light with 1204 8000kv and 2S. The 1104 would make sense if the goal was ultralight 3 inch.
I also wanted to hate this motor (or its predecessor, because mine is called T10 and is graphite in colour) when I put it on my 3" WarPig with GF 3018s, but... unlike its smaller sibling (the 1103, 8000kV), this one surprised me in a good way - the power is comparable with FPV Cycle 1303 and although it is pretty heavy at 6.1g as for its size (heavier than the RCINPOWER 1204 at 5.9g with 1mm extra stator diameter), it performs nicely on a light-weight 3". There is another 1104 motor which you can buy under many different names at Aliexpress (mine is called Flash Hobby), which I used on my 2.5" builds with similar props (including the 2523 GEPRC and HQ 2.5x2x3) which is pretty impressive and weighs only.... 4.6g! (and I have measured the stator to be really the size it claims). The only downside are motor cables which are basically the winding wires in some plastic insulation - they break easily from vibrations and have to be replaced with some normal, silicone wires)
Hello sir, can i get ur contacts? I need ur help for fixing my own design frame 5inch, it always hv pitch resonance, i hv try 5 time creating own frame but the problem still on pitch
GEPRC 2.5” prop on the 1103… I was super curious what you thought of the props??? I’m flying 1103 with 2” props (2-6blade) the past 10 days, experimenting/tuning 4.4 for two months now (got the hang of the new stuff)… from inside, as it’s starting to get cooler 60F and a bit below. Have ran into a lot of roadblocks and been overworked recently and thanksgiving in Canada was nuts, not flying as much unfortunately, just barely squeezing in 2-6 packs compared to 80+ a few weeks ago. 1104 is not a bad motor, it was one of the first small motors I used and I really liked how easy it was to fly, after the big torque at the beginning. It was super easy for me as a beginner, at the time.
It is the GEPRC 2523. I haven’t given it exhaustive shakedown yet. My initial impression is descent balance and some welcome increase in pitch compared to the Gemfan 2512. I don’t think it’s light enough load for the 1103/1202.5 so probably pairs better with 1104/1203.
@@Quad66 yes, I agree with all above. I really like the durability… not light, but durable. Smooth I feel. Not sure about high speed stability as the blade tip has minimal taper, but it’s unlikely to be an issue unless pushing it with high KV 1404s or similar. I haven’t tested it at high speed yet, so this is just a guess which is likely completely wrong. I made friends with another engineer, he designed the NewBeeDrone little motors and props, we have been sharing theory and experience… that has been good. Exactly the part that I needed!!! Sometimes talking stuff out gets you in the right direction! I’m grateful for this! I’m learning way more about props, which has been a huge deficiency for me. And I have a very good hold on small motors now, having worked with large motors a lot of my life. Very interesting how it scales! Starting to make motor shafts, 1.5-2mm, with different materials. Sick and tired of swapping motors after a few crashes when the shafts bend, and lose stability, especially on small high KV stuff it just becomes unflyable. I’m going to try carbon for weight savings… haven’t yet, waiting on materials, but it will likely be one and done with them… which honestly is basically the same thing I am experiencing anyway so… I dunno. Don’t know if the flex will be okay, but swapping a motor shaft in 30 seconds is not a big deal. I hate being wasteful, and small motors are not durable, which they shouldn’t be, as weight would be ridiculous! So we just gotta deal with it. Engineering is fun :p As long as I can just swap the shaft and not have to unsolder too… I’ll be happy! I’ll just make up a bunch of bells to swap out quick and this will likely make me happy. I’ll let you know how this goes in a few weeks. Started building Timmy’s tubular quad as well, excited to see how it flys. Been thinking about it for ages!
@@lemonsquareFPV It would be super interesting to here some discussion with the prop engineers. One of the things that I’ve been very curious about with the NBD props is the design choices that led to such different prop shape for the venom biblade and the AZI. On the swappable shafts I would be happy if we could just buy the bells/shafts. It’s a shame to waste all these stators. Given the weight issue, yes it seems like the best approach is to just pick a failure point that is most reasonably replaceable. The approach that Dalton took with the lil’floater motors was too use the super short shafts, just enough to center the prop on. With that approach all the stress goes into the screw.
@@lemonsquareFPV just watched the Timmy tubular, that takes hand made to the extreme! It looks like a fun project, just wear a mask with all that carbon dust !
@@Quad66 Talk to the guy and ask him. He is good people. Zach Carrizales, he is in a bunch of FPV groups on Facebook, I met him here on RUclips. We were discussing engineering and became friends :p Definitely gonna do a shorter shaft for the props I screw down as I already cut those shafts down to a shorter size. To reduce weight and chance of bending. Looking at 2mm with no clips for strength or 1.5mm for weight. I don’t know if carbon shafts will work at all but will try it. It will likely flex too much but maybe it’ll work on the little motors. They have such small forces on them. I am designing it so I can press out the damaged shaft and press on a new one without removing the bell or motor. But honestly I’m hoping that a proper shaft won’t bend anymore. Especially the HSS material that I got made up. It literally doesn’t bend. Compared to the spaghetti we make most small motors with. The oem shafts have too many weaknesses. Frankly unacceptable. A single small crash and they literally lose the ability to spin to high RPM. Sad.
incredible video, so much good information in there. Thanks and I really appreciate these.
I too used to love those LDARC 1103 7500 Kv motors. I fly a King Kong/LDARC ET100 as my daily driver [a chonky 104g AUW]. Since 2018. Recently, I switched the stock KK 1935 props [utter garbage, btw] for some Gemfan D51s. They fit the stock 1.9 inch hoops perfectly, turning a potato-grade maxi-whoop into a smooth little ducted cinewhoop. Even better, I built a version of the ET100 [a McWhoop, if you will] with a set of LDARC 1104 7500 Kv motors last year [112g AUW] but found it was under-propped and shelved it. When I got the D51s last month I gave them a try on it, and wow. Now it is the best-flying thing I've ever flown, replacing the 1103-powered one I'd flown for years. I run BF 4.3.1, and Bluejay 0.16 [Rosser, Spatz & JB helped me with the tune]. I recently watched your viddie on micro setup in BF 4.3, tried some of the things you mentioned, which made a noticeable difference to an already excellent tune [I've been developing it for years]. My style is totally different [indoor, Angle mode] but you still had some helpful advice. Thanks much.
Thanks for presenting a nice 2.5 inch Ultra Light option!! It's slim pickings at the moment!!!
Yes, it’s unfortunate how many of the motors for 2.5 inch have been discontinued.
@@Quad66 New bee drone has a 1104 10,000 kv ???? Thoughts? for 2 s ? 2.5 Ultra light with the emax props I have laying around?
Just ordered a set of 1104 T motors to convert my geprc phantom 3s build to 4s on 2.5 in. Great info for them
On 4S with 7500kv that should be a solid game of will it smoke
1104 7500kv 3s is maximum on light 2.5 inch props
Love your vids and builds they look super. If they were easier to buy as a kit I would've been flying one. Just wondering have you tried the Gemfan 2540 props I have a build with 1104 and those props work great but there not so durable but they are light. Cheers always great to see you fly
In terms of a kit would something like a complete kit to self build be of interest? I have some 2540s but don’t use them because the hub is very loose. With loose hubs I tend to get breakage of the nylon props screws too easily.
@@Quad66 frame and 3d camera mount
I really appreciate your videos and the depth of your research. I seldom comment on RUclips videos, but I wanted to thank you for all the help you've been to this "Senior Nerd" I do have a question... Do you have a particular data loggers you recommend? Any to avoid?
For an external logger I’ve used OpenLager. UAVtech has a tutorial on set up.
Another great video!!
Thanks for the info! I was eyeing these motors and not surprisingly found your video again.
You mentioned the prop area to weight ratio, AKA disk loading. I always had this question, if we think five inches has a really nice flying feel, and want to replicate their disk loading in 2.5 inch quads, the target AUW would be something like 150 grams, assuming a 600 gram AUW for a five inch. With 150 grams of AUW, we can put on big motors like 1404 motors and big batteries and getting close to the 10:1 or 9:1 thrust weight ratio that typical five inch quads have. So we'll have similar power and floatiness/"parachute effect" as the five inches. But 150 grams seems ridiculously heavy for a 2.5 inch quad, compared to how heavy we typically build them. I don't know if there is anything I'm missing or the physical scaling doesn't work as I calculated. I'm curious if you have any insights.
Aerodynamically things definitely don’t scale in a linear way. With that said, someone like Ciotti will build much heavier micros to get throw that is more like a 5 inch. In that case 150 gm AUW is probably not all that far off. My builds are optimized for flying in small spaces where you want much more air braking/less inertia. In my flying space a 150 gm 2.5 inch would be able to throw past the neighbors house.
@@Quad66 That makes sense, small spaces requires less throw-ability, and it means lower disk loading, and hence lighter micro quads.
My flying space is a little bit larger but not by much, and I was actually trying to find components for a 96 gram AUM 2 inch quad to match the disk loading and thrust weight ratio of a 600 gram 5 inch, and the challenge was finding the power train setup to provide the thrust given the unusual target weight. These 1104 on 3s for 2 inch might be a good candidate if the thrust table from tmotor can be trusted and the batteries can deliver that much burst amps.
@@rbFPV yes options are probably these 1104 on 3S or the FW 1203 either high kv on 2S or low kv 4S. which props do you plan to use?
@@Quad66 I don't have particular preference, just trying to see if the idea is viable first. Maybe the 2023 tri-blade for these 1104 on 3S could work? Flywoo 1203 seems don't have high enough kv for 2 inch props on 2S, maybe 4S with the 5500Kv version is powerful enough.
I was checking out tmotor m1103 motors and was puzzled by the fact that their 8000kv 4S is less efficient than 11000kv 3S for 2015 bi-blades (I don't know how scientific their published data is), then stumbled on these m1104 motors. Too bad the ldarc 1103 is only rated for 2S. I'll probably should go with these m1104 motors.
Thanks alot dude, really helped me
Nice like always 👌🏼🚀😍. I buy the rcinpower 1204 8000kv for a 3'hglrc petrel hdzero... I want to watch your rewiew on this motors
I should have my HDzero build flying fairly soon. I think the 1204 8000kv will be my go to choice.
So cute I want on
Love your work. How do you feel about 1104-9000 KV On a 3-in prop? Or would I be beneficial to have inches. I have them on a 2-in now and it's just not good enough
It would probably work with a biblade, the Emax Avia in particular are easier to spin which may help with the slightly smaller motor. I would try it as well with 2.5 inch triblades as that will likely be quite good.
@@Quad66 I'm thinking after watching what you did with your build, I might go two and a half inch. Might be time to pick up a frame from you 👍👍
@@RichMoore-tweakin7376 I like the formula a lot. I’ve got a preset up in my library for it as well. I’ll do a video on it soon.
@@Quad66 That's great. I'm looking forward to it. I love the work you've done
Give the flywoo 1203 11500kv motors a try with the azure 2540 props on 2S. The KV is pretty high, but the lower pitch makes up for it.
I tried the 1203 with the azure power but didn’t see much benefit.
@@Quad66 do you find the ldarc 65mm bi blade props better than the azure 2540? I got some on the way. Maybe you could also add some motor output Limit down to 90%, so that you dont push the high kv too hard
@@chrisbee5481 the ldarc/kk 65 mm biblades don’t really handle much more than an 1102. They are just to thin and flatten/flutter in the air and get chewed up on the ground.
not sure if you'd reply to this but was wondering if this motor would do well on a 3in setup - perhaps the 3016 or 3018 props on 2s?
It will work. I do think 1204 is the right size for light 3 inch props. You can still be pretty light with 1204 8000kv and 2S. The 1104 would make sense if the goal was ultralight 3 inch.
Do you have an updated recommendations for a brushless motor for a 2.5" 2s quad 52g no battery.
I know this is a relatively old video but would a 12 amp aio like the happymodel x12 work with this build?
Probably. I’ve been flying the set up on a Flywoo 13 amp board and it has been fine.
I also wanted to hate this motor (or its predecessor, because mine is called T10 and is graphite in colour) when I put it on my 3" WarPig with GF 3018s, but... unlike its smaller sibling (the 1103, 8000kV), this one surprised me in a good way - the power is comparable with FPV Cycle 1303 and although it is pretty heavy at 6.1g as for its size (heavier than the RCINPOWER 1204 at 5.9g with 1mm extra stator diameter), it performs nicely on a light-weight 3".
There is another 1104 motor which you can buy under many different names at Aliexpress (mine is called Flash Hobby), which I used on my 2.5" builds with similar props (including the 2523 GEPRC and HQ 2.5x2x3) which is pretty impressive and weighs only.... 4.6g! (and I have measured the stator to be really the size it claims). The only downside are motor cables which are basically the winding wires in some plastic insulation - they break easily from vibrations and have to be replaced with some normal, silicone wires)
Hello sir, can i get ur contacts? I need ur help for fixing my own design frame 5inch, it always hv pitch resonance, i hv try 5 time creating own frame but the problem still on pitch
Curious if you have tried these on 3s with biblades or the low pitch gemfan triblades?
It would probably work with the T65.
I’ve had a lot of trouble with those motors for bending shafts have you had that issue
I haven’t smacked them around enough yet to judge durability
The inner shaft is only 1.5mm on this right? 12xx motors have 2mm inner shaft. More durable
@@chrisbee5481 inner shaft looks a touch larger than 1.5 but not 2mm. So likely not as durable.
What vtx you use on this setup?
I used to use the namelessRC, but they don’t seem to be available anymore
GEPRC 2.5” prop on the 1103… I was super curious what you thought of the props???
I’m flying 1103 with 2” props (2-6blade) the past 10 days, experimenting/tuning 4.4 for two months now (got the hang of the new stuff)… from inside, as it’s starting to get cooler 60F and a bit below. Have ran into a lot of roadblocks and been overworked recently and thanksgiving in Canada was nuts, not flying as much unfortunately, just barely squeezing in 2-6 packs compared to 80+ a few weeks ago.
1104 is not a bad motor, it was one of the first small motors I used and I really liked how easy it was to fly, after the big torque at the beginning. It was super easy for me as a beginner, at the time.
It is the GEPRC 2523. I haven’t given it exhaustive shakedown yet. My initial impression is descent balance and some welcome increase in pitch compared to the Gemfan 2512. I don’t think it’s light enough load for the 1103/1202.5 so probably pairs better with 1104/1203.
@@Quad66 yes, I agree with all above.
I really like the durability… not light, but durable.
Smooth I feel.
Not sure about high speed stability as the blade tip has minimal taper, but it’s unlikely to be an issue unless pushing it with high KV 1404s or similar. I haven’t tested it at high speed yet, so this is just a guess which is likely completely wrong.
I made friends with another engineer, he designed the NewBeeDrone little motors and props, we have been sharing theory and experience… that has been good. Exactly the part that I needed!!! Sometimes talking stuff out gets you in the right direction! I’m grateful for this!
I’m learning way more about props, which has been a huge deficiency for me. And I have a very good hold on small motors now, having worked with large motors a lot of my life. Very interesting how it scales!
Starting to make motor shafts, 1.5-2mm, with different materials.
Sick and tired of swapping motors after a few crashes when the shafts bend, and lose stability, especially on small high KV stuff it just becomes unflyable. I’m going to try carbon for weight savings… haven’t yet, waiting on materials, but it will likely be one and done with them… which honestly is basically the same thing I am experiencing anyway so… I dunno. Don’t know if the flex will be okay, but swapping a motor shaft in 30 seconds is not a big deal.
I hate being wasteful, and small motors are not durable, which they shouldn’t be, as weight would be ridiculous! So we just gotta deal with it. Engineering is fun :p
As long as I can just swap the shaft and not have to unsolder too… I’ll be happy! I’ll just make up a bunch of bells to swap out quick and this will likely make me happy. I’ll let you know how this goes in a few weeks.
Started building Timmy’s tubular quad as well, excited to see how it flys. Been thinking about it for ages!
@@lemonsquareFPV It would be super interesting to here some discussion with the prop engineers. One of the things that I’ve been very curious about with the NBD props is the design choices that led to such different prop shape for the venom biblade and the AZI.
On the swappable shafts I would be happy if we could just buy the bells/shafts. It’s a shame to waste all these stators. Given the weight issue, yes it seems like the best approach is to just pick a failure point that is most reasonably replaceable. The approach that Dalton took with the lil’floater motors was too use the super short shafts, just enough to center the prop on. With that approach all the stress goes into the screw.
@@lemonsquareFPV just watched the Timmy tubular, that takes hand made to the extreme! It looks like a fun project, just wear a mask with all that carbon dust !
@@Quad66
Talk to the guy and ask him. He is good people. Zach Carrizales, he is in a bunch of FPV groups on Facebook, I met him here on RUclips. We were discussing engineering and became friends :p
Definitely gonna do a shorter shaft for the props I screw down as I already cut those shafts down to a shorter size. To reduce weight and chance of bending.
Looking at 2mm with no clips for strength or 1.5mm for weight. I don’t know if carbon shafts will work at all but will try it. It will likely flex too much but maybe it’ll work on the little motors. They have such small forces on them.
I am designing it so I can press out the damaged shaft and press on a new one without removing the bell or motor. But honestly I’m hoping that a proper shaft won’t bend anymore. Especially the HSS material that I got made up. It literally doesn’t bend. Compared to the spaghetti we make most small motors with.
The oem shafts have too many weaknesses. Frankly unacceptable. A single small crash and they literally lose the ability to spin to high RPM. Sad.