+Christopher Brewer I don't think its been two seasons since the red wedding and they were going to show they would've already done it also the show is its own thing now since their is no more source material right now and they could show her in season 6 and do a flashback of berric giving her the kiss of life but the people who make the show don't do to many flashbacks
I told myself that if I ever become a screenwriter, I'm going to try and readapt the show, this time much closer to the books. Plus all the books would be out by then anyway, so it'd be easier.
The 7 Gods represent the 7 Stark. Eddard : The Father - honorable and just. Catelyn : The Mother - loves her children. Robb : The Warrior - undefeated in battle. Sansa : The Maiden - innocent and still a virgin. Arya : The Stranger - faceless assassin (aka nobody). Brandon : The Crone - greenseer (wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees). Rickon : The Smith - rebuilds winterfell.
kodohumper Jon : R'hllor (the New God), God of Flame & Great Other (the Old Gods), God of Cold - His is the song of ice and fire. Since we are considering the bastard/nephew lets throw in the ward too. Reek : Drowned God, He Who Dwells Beneath the Waves - Submissive Theon : Storm God, He Who Dwells Above the Clouds - Aggressive
FrakkinToasterLuvva I think all of them gets corrupted in some form or another, I think the Starks will all be dead by the end of the story. The Father - meets an honorless & unjust end for crime he didnt commit. The Mother - sees her eldest child die & thinks that all her children are dead. Slain by Brianne/Jamie who are sworn to her. The Warrior - defeated in dinner. The Maiden - raped and murdered - foreshadowed in Mercy chapter (like Ellia was by the Hound's Brother). The Stranger - still holds onto the past grudges, doesn't offer up Arya completely to the faceless god (gets into trouble with the facelessmen for giving the gift to unchosen ones, and killed for not being a faithful servant of the many faced god). The Crone - knows everything going on outside his cave, but the real enemies are inside the cave with him; Betrayed and killed by the children of the forest and/or Bloodraven after he helps bring down the Wall/or is no longer of any use. The Smith - rebuilds Winterfell only for it to be burnt down and melted by Dany's Dragon(s) (Just as Harrenhal was burnt down by Aegon's Dragons) Jon - His song is one that is unsung and will never be sung; only us, the readers, knows of the song of ice and fire. Theon - Dwells in the Realms of Men to an old age.
You're right, I'm also wondering how long it took for him to come up with something so amazing. He really must have believed in his self to invest so much time and energy
I would say that there is not much evidence for any of the religions. Sure, Melisandre can pull off some fancy blood/fire magic, but that doesn't mean R'hollor is there empowering her. Maybe there are no real gods, just magic of different types that priests use to sell their dogma.
+Stage Lined Catelyn told Brienne that when she prayed to the Seven to kill Jon Snow he is struck with terrible maladies he is allegedly done so, and so is he cured of those maladies as she prays to the Seven to cure Jon Snow, although it could of course been a coincidence.
Also notable is the Dothraki's belief in the Great Stallion. They don't deny the existence of the other gods, but believe that A. their power depends on location, so the Seven have more power in Westeros than in Essos and B. the Great Stallion is more powerful everywhere than the other Gods (everyone uses horses, after all).
@@egarallenpoe2681 they didn’t trust the water nor did they want to go. They’re horses couldn’t drink it, and they have a pretty lucrative existence on Essos. Plus, it was certainly the Dragons that got the people to follow Dany across the poison water
How amazing it is for a writer to actually delve into the religion of his characters, not just write a character and his back story, but to focus so much on a religion, which, to a certain extent, doesn't (or hasn't so far) affected the progress of the story, where his focus should be. That is just genius!
The New Gods, well... they don't do jack shit; The Drowned God is just too wet and cold for my liking; with The Old Gods you can warg into animals, Hodor and travel through time; The Lord of Light can bring people back to life, birth shadow demons and promotes hot sexy sex with sexy red-heads.. For me it's a tie between the Old Gods and the Lord of Light, but if I had to choose between entering Hodor and entering Melisandre, I'd choose Melisandre...
Actually GRRM says the Lord of Light is based on Zoroastrianism, which was the first monotheistic religion and the foundation for good and evil in the middle east. The called their god the Lord of Light and are considered fire worshipers, because they believe fire to be holy and cleansing, and their Satan is a god of darkness.
I'm AMAZED watching George explaining what he did in therms of every religion of the books, I think he's fucking genious and brilliant. He really nailed it with this story.
For those of you who are Legend of Zelda fans, I just want to say it now. Whenever I think of the children of the forest, I immediately think about the Kokiri people from Ocarina of Time.
Faith of the Seven: the christian trinity. Lord of Light: Zoroastrian fire worship. Old gods of the forest: obvious take on the Celtic religion of Britain, with green seers as druids.
I wonder so much of how one single mind and make up all these stories that intertwine each other in many different ways you didnt expect, and all the unnessesary details he put in to just one religion, tradition, the history and lore he puts into his books are amazing
This video is by far the best of the season 2 features - for non-readers like me, it provides new insights into the world of Westeros. More like this please! We don't need recaps and trailers, we need the lore and exposition that can't be fully appreciated from just the tv show!
It's kind of strange hearing George r r martin talk about westeros. He doesn't sound like the man who thought of it all. He just sounds like a really big game of thrones fan.
What would be cool to see would be one of the factions, most likely Stannis for many reasons, is gunpowder, cannons or some other slightly advanced tech to be introduced/discovered and hailed as "the lord of light's magic", that would be interesting.
It's always really interesting to draw the parallels with real-world religions. The Faith of the Seven obviously has some parts in common with Christianity, brings a little more paganism into it with sexualized gods and goddesses. The religion with the Red God seems similar to Zoroastrianism with its sacred flames and "eastern" origin, and Rholler and the Great Other resemble the duality of Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu.
The Fire god and the Great Other (The winter god) are two sides of the same god. This god is not a benevolent god. The war for the dawn is just an amusing diversion for this god. Westeros is a world trapped within the Warp, endlessly repeating cycles to the tune of the capricious will of the Dark God of Chaos. The Emperor protects.
George R.R. Martin really went into detail when writing the books! Left no stone unturned with all the finer details to make Game of Thrones as real as possible! Amazing really.
Spoiler Alert in this comment, only read if you know what AA and TPTWP are. Did he just confirm that AA and TPTWP are the same. I assumed they are two separate prophecies, one for Jon, and one for Dany.
Sry for my bad english, i never learned this language. But George R. R. Martin only confirmed is the TPTWP and the Lightbringer belong together isn't? Azor Ahai can be someone else.
It's hard to believe that all of this; this whole new world with so much depth and history came from within his mind. I love you George, you're my idol.
I' impressed with how well the topic of religion is treated in general in the books and show. So it doesn't matter whether you are or aren't religious in real life; you can relate to the struggles of these poor unlucky mortals, in a world which seems to have colossal forces at work, well beyond the comprehension of the characters in the story.
I love how the Faith of the Seven is obviously supposed to be based off of Catholicism and yet the Seven is the only religion in ASOIAF with no physical proof of existence.
+scapelife The old gods clearly talk to people through weirwoods, and the children exist The drowned god brings people back to life R'hllor prophecies tend to come true, and mel resurrects people
Left wing- Technocrat I think that's all more magic people taking as signs of faith rather than a god's direct intervention Also I'm pretty sure the Drowned God resurrection thing is really just CPR in the books, not sure been while
scapelife I think rhllor is the one, mostly because of story reasons, he's an exact opposite of winter, plus, the story originated in the shadow lands, told by people who couldn't have known about white walkers or their weaknesses
erurevir I am conflicted around this new god. He demonstrates his divine power, and is probably the true god of all the religions in Westeros, but... my conscious feels... uneased... by the morality of this god. I truly wonder which of the gods in Westeros I would have worshipped if I lived there.
***** The god of your forefathers obviously, not many people are well educated enough to know about all religions, and they sure as hell don't teach that at school!
I actually thought for a long time that Beric Dondarrion was Azor Ahai, and I'm still convinced he's a strong candidate. Daenerys and Stannis could be, in their own ways, a warrior of light too, but Beric is (I can say it with very minor spoiler) clearly in strong communication with a divine force, which kind of possess him.
I'm curious if there are "actual" gods in the world of Westeros, Essos, Sothoryus etc. Red priests have been able to resurrect and kill people through prayers and sacrifacing, and there are Greenseers, bestowed upon the First men 'n the CotF, which in some cases let them make use of the Weirwood trees. The Seven, the Drowned God, the Storm God, the Lion of Yi Ti, the Sheep god and all the other gods have yet to 'prove themselves' in my opinion.
.... and what do we say to death? Also, guys. You're forgetting about 'The Other', I have a feeling that Rh'llor and The Other are the main guys behind all of this story. The Lord of Light has been proven, but I mean... how do the Others and the Whites even become Others/Whites? Food for thought?
That's very reflective of our own world. Every religion has had prophets and people resurrected by monks or priests or people with divine power. every religion claims they have people that speak to gods and have people that claim to have met their god. So which one is really true? It's fascinating c:
Is it bad, when I feeling depressed and need to think, I walk into the hills behind my house and sit by the trees now? All because of these books. It's quite peaceful actually.
Then ask yourself: if it is peaceful, why is it bad? You feel you're bretraying your faith for a fantasy book that gives you comfort? Isn't it, in all reality, the bible a fantasy book which gives the belivers comfort as well? "But the Bible is the word of God" yes and GoT is the word of a man who created Gods. Couldn't we, the human race, have created God, the same way G.R.R.M created theirs, to give us comfort in times of uncertanty? Enjoy your peace in the hills, have no guilt for you have done nothing wrong. Guilt is the single most useless feeling in the world, and guilt is the fuel of religion. That's why you're having this thoughts.
Nacho Vanhardisk Too true, I just felt bad about it because it shows how much these books have affected me. I'm actually an Atheist, more specifically a LaVeyan Satanist. At first I always thought Satanists were evil people that sacrificed and killed things for Satan. Boy was a wrong. If you ever want to have an interesting read, go read up on the Satanic Rules and Statements. They make FAR more sense then anything from the bible.
Yeah, I feel like he made that fairly obvious, almost from the beginning. Like the geography of Westeros though, he's made sure to change things up and add his own elements to create a truly unique religion. Even the religion of the Red God is a little different. It seems more puritanical, calling for eradication of other religions, while Zoroastrianism stresses cooperation. The Great Other is supposed to be defeated by violence, while Ahura Mazda combats Angra Mainyu with good deeds.
People in A Song of Ice and Fire are just like people in the real world: they're too interested in their own self-interests to pay attention to or know when their prayers have been answered. Plus, they're too busy praying for what they want instead of what they need.
Well thats cause the Faceless God is just another way of saying death, which a lot of the religions in Westeros have a specific name for. Kinda get the feeling it was a way ofr the faceless men to integrate everyone: they all have a name for death, so lets give them one common name for it.
SuggestiveWhiteFluff yeah, I think the faceless god is sort of like Buddhism, a way of living, self sacrifice and the like, although I'm pretty sure there aren't faceless magic men in the real world.
Martin has said in a previous interview (not associated with the HBO show) that the Seven is his interpretation of Catholicism. Makes sense, especially when you read Book 4 and see some of the inner-workings of the Citadel and the Order.
So the old gods were around before the first men... that makes me wonder who passed the religion to the first men and what happened to them. Could they have gone on to be the Others?
The Children of the Forest were driven away by the Andals during their invasion of Westeros. The Andals used to be as intolerant as the red priests of R'hollor. Because they weren't able to completely conquer the First Men (the ones who lived in the North stopped the Andals at the Neck), they developed a more peaceful relationship with the Northmen after thousands of years of coexistence.
The God of light is based on Zoratrianism I'm guessing seeing as they were the first monotheistic religion and their main form of worship is around an ever burning fire. The 7 is a nod to Catholicism. I mean the nuns, the priests, the money, it's all there. The drowned God sounds like some Greek mythology stuff. The old gods sound like a lot of native and indegenous religions where they believe in the spirit of nature. The true God is the many faced God or he could be the true devil. Who knows?
Definitely the Dragons were the reason why the powers of various sorcerers increased and why magic is becoming stronger with each book. Perhaps the Septons and Septas would be capable of miracles or "magic" as well, but all the Maesters across Westeros keep reiterating that Magic does not exist. How can the priests of the Seven even attempt to perform a miracle if they dont even belief in their willpower? It's such a beautiful religion, I wish it was actually more practical ;(
When I read the LOTR triology I thought there should have been some kind religion included. It just played such an important role in medival society that you feel something's missing when you leave it out of a fantacy story.
People who say "STOP DOING OTHER STUFF AND WRITE THE NEXT BOOK" (and people who thumb that stuff up) should be ashamed. George has said before that he cannot only work on the book for too long. The only things that these comments and messages do is depress him and make him angry, if he even reads them. Be mature. He takes his time. Deal with it.
In my fantasy book I've made so that the religions are in fact one and the same, and the only difference between them are the aspects and cultures in them
I can see that working if it's set in a localised area - say, continental Europe during the dark ages through to the Crusades, but if the same religion is practiced the world over I think there should be a reasonable in-universe explanation for it.
Joaquin602001 There was a time when Christianity almost completely dominated the part of the world that roughly corresponds to e.g. GRRM's Westeros and Essos, but it still caused conflict and had numerous denominations: -In the east (the Balkans and modern Turkey) centered in Byzantium you had Orthodox Christianity under the Patriarchate of Constantinople, which was doctrinally derived from the decisions of the "Church Fathers" or first patriarchs at the seven Ecumenical Councils following the first called by Emperor Constantine. Spread to Russia but had a minor schism that resulted in the present-day distinction between Eastern Orthodoxy and Greek Orthodoxy. -The above was the "Roman Church" (as Byzantium was the Eastern Roman Empire) until the Great Schism, which resulted in the establishment of Catholicism. The essential doctrine of Catholicism was not much different except that the Bishop of Rome claimed to be the Heir of Saint Peter and Vicar of Christ, and beneath him appointed a more rigid hierarchy of prelates and priests, and also in that it emphasized monasticism slightly more heavily. -In the South of France, Lombardy, and possibly into the Pyrenees there was a version of Christianity that isn't well understood because it was purged by the Catholics during the Albigensian Crusade (c. 1220-1250), but mainly seems to have rejected papal supremacy, priestly hierarchy, and also some if not all of the Catholic and Orthodox sacraments e.g. baptism and communion with transubstantiation. (As people plainly got married in this region just about as often, I'd say marriage was an exception.) It might have had its own sacraments such as an alleged "consolamentum" similar to Last Rites. It was called Catharism or Albigensianism by Catholics and equated with an older Middle Eastern Christian religion called Manichaeism, though many Catholic notions about it were probably wrong. Effectively extinguished by mass murder by 1250, except underground holdouts hunted by the Papal Inquisition (though the inquisitors mostly just terrorized innocent people). -From the 15th C. on there were of course Lutheranism and Calvinism which especially caught on in Northern Europe and the Reformation led to horrendously bloody religious wars even though everyone involved was definitely Christian. -This one is arguable, but the core tenants of Islam are pretty similar to those of Christianity--It is a universal (i.e. not ethnically-exclusive in any way) religion descended from Judaism; claims devotion to one supreme god who is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and entirely benevolent and beneficent; and has similar views on the afterlife (i.e. there's a Heaven and Hell and you go to one or the other forever based on how good you were in life). So especially if we include Islam--and remember that there was a Crusade against the Albigensians who, even if heretics, were most definitely Christian, and also that Crusaders in the Middle East killed Orthodox or other minority Christians without much hesitation at times, so the Crusades alone aren't really good reason not to--there was/has been a very long period of time when the world from Ireland to Persia (eventually to include North and South America for the most part) followed the "same religion", BUT we should remember that it did little to nothing to prevent religious conflict, AND that it is possible to see all of these also as distinct religions at the same time. Had Buddhism never evolved, though, it's easy to imagine an alternate history where the whole world would have ended up either Christian, Muslim, or atheist (probably with minorities of Jews, Hindus, and a smattering of followers of other African and Eastern religions, but in relatively insignificant numbers). So TL;DR a one-religion world is not far-fetched, but a world where everyone agrees enough about that religion not kill each other over it probably is.
TreasonousBastard And that's just the reason why. The entire fantasy world I made is completely secular...sort of. But the people won't kill each other because they don't believe the same divine way
IShallUseFire! If it's a solely secular society in which there is no conflict regarding religion, then what is the point of having religion other than ornamenting your world with a shallow parallel to our own? Not trying to be overly critical of your work, especially since I haven't read it, but I'm genuinely curious. Why did you decide to include it in the novel if it has no baring on the way people behave? I imagine whomever exists in your society must be extremely different from us if their beliefs on creation are never a matter of dispute in any circumstance.
I don't know if it's because of how he's explaining them us or if it's because it's another world, but it's beautiful. I think in this world, if you really believe it then it's real.
See Muslims and Christians, you can see for yourself how easily are religions made. You write a book, put some supernatural powers, and events that no man can do. Describe the creation of everything you can see with a naked eye, put some rules to follow and put fear into everyone by raising them to be religious and tell them they'll burn forever is they disobey you.
That's what you believe, which some others consider heresy. Christians believe Jesus IS that one God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one single being with three revelations. I'm not religious but if you're not prepare to be called a heretic, don't dish it out.
i am not heretic . but jesus didnt say im god or son , pluse i belive jesus Ibrahim and Noah Isac Mohamed al of those guys are prophet and they share the same idea but christians still stupid sorry for the wards but they still think jesus is son hes not son of god hes justa prophet and god toke him to him , hes not dead and he will come back again to save us but still hes not Son of god , god says i dont have son or father or mother or anything in his book and he said : He begets not, nor was He begotten. And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him
Oh absolutely, I definitely consider Jon to be a true Stark, when I said that I was mostly referring to that his/her theory was focusing on the "true" Stark family when the trueborn children.
Some families dont like the idea of "sharing their power" with other families, marrying your sibling is a great way to keep all the power for yourself and not making any obligations. Plus he married his sister because his father forced him to do so, they never consummated. He later dissolved the marriage, and had her, along with the rest of his sisters locked away in the "Maiden Vault" so they could not tempt him.
I think Sirio meant it as a metaphor of sorts, telling Arya that "death" is all she should be worrying about, or rather, no god should influence the way one fights, that it should be completely secular. "Death," in this case, is looked at as both a proper and improper noun, using the word "death" as both a god, and the actual act of dying. The latter, though, is what Sirio is trying to convey to her in a pious way.
that is indeed a good point. but for me the question is more about being accepted as normal. that also includes that we have exactly the same rights. also when you grow up with religious values and then suddenly you have to realize that all these values exclude you this is something really hard to cope with.
it may not have been touched on much in LOTR, but in his other works relating to Arda (the world LOTR takes place in) the Valar are frequently talked about, especialy in the silmarillion. they are like archangels, sort of, with the creator being Eru
He did, the god of the faceless men is Death. The red god is Rhollor the Lord of light. The other main god is of the white walkers, the Great other..but he didn't mention that because they haven't yet covered that in the show yet..
Good break down of the religions of Westeros . . . . they did forget to mention the Lord of light's name . . R'hllor . . . The Night is Dark and full of Bammers . .
What I find most interesting about R'hllor is the ambiguity shown through Melisandre and Thoros of Myr. Are either of them drawing upon "divine power" to achieve their feats of the supernatural?
I love it when George talks about his lore and stuff because you can see how much passion he has while explaining
Yes , I appreciate him sharing his insight
there is only one god in Game of Thrones, and his name is George R R Martin, or Death, they're pretty interchangeable.
mart mcphly ah-ha
mart mcphly yep, and also he's to God of creation
George RR Martin is a genius
i wish to the old gods and the new to find inspiration and courage and finish his books
series then books again? that could be interesting.
Yes.
6:58 stannis discarded his faith in the seven after his parents both died in ship breakers bay
+Christopher Brewer I don't think its been two seasons since the red wedding and they were going to show they would've already done it also the show is its own thing now since their is no more source material right now and they could show her in season 6 and do a flashback of berric giving her the kiss of life but the people who make the show don't do to many flashbacks
No not really
@ Christopher Brewer, they are bringing her back next episode i think. Episode 7
I think we will see her at the end.
I told myself that if I ever become a screenwriter, I'm going to try and readapt the show, this time much closer to the books. Plus all the books would be out by then anyway, so it'd be easier.
Stannis is a textbook case of Middle Child Syndrome.
The 7 Gods represent the 7 Stark.
Eddard : The Father - honorable and just.
Catelyn : The Mother - loves her children.
Robb : The Warrior - undefeated in battle.
Sansa : The Maiden - innocent and still a virgin.
Arya : The Stranger - faceless assassin (aka nobody).
Brandon : The Crone - greenseer (wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees).
Rickon : The Smith - rebuilds winterfell.
A nice theory, but what about Jon? (If you are an R+L=J person it still works I guess) No evidence Rickon will be the lord of winterfell yet though!
By the time RIckon gets to rebuild Winterfell, if he ever does, I very much doubt Sansa will still be a virgin.
kodohumper
Jon : R'hllor (the New God), God of Flame & Great Other (the Old Gods), God of Cold - His is the song of ice and fire.
Since we are considering the bastard/nephew lets throw in the ward too.
Reek : Drowned God, He Who Dwells Beneath the Waves - Submissive
Theon : Storm God, He Who Dwells Above the Clouds - Aggressive
FrakkinToasterLuvva I think all of them gets corrupted in some form or another, I think the Starks will all be dead by the end of the story.
The Father - meets an honorless & unjust end for crime he didnt commit.
The Mother - sees her eldest child die & thinks that all her children are dead. Slain by Brianne/Jamie who are sworn to her.
The Warrior - defeated in dinner.
The Maiden - raped and murdered - foreshadowed in Mercy chapter (like Ellia was by the Hound's Brother).
The Stranger - still holds onto the past grudges, doesn't offer up Arya completely to the faceless god (gets into trouble with the facelessmen for giving the gift to unchosen ones, and killed for not being a faithful servant of the many faced god).
The Crone - knows everything going on outside his cave, but the real enemies are inside the cave with him; Betrayed and killed by the children of the forest and/or Bloodraven after he helps bring down the Wall/or is no longer of any use.
The Smith - rebuilds Winterfell only for it to be burnt down and melted by Dany's Dragon(s) (Just as Harrenhal was burnt down by Aegon's Dragons)
Jon - His song is one that is unsung and will never be sung; only us, the readers, knows of the song of ice and fire.
Theon - Dwells in the Realms of Men to an old age.
Ros Alayaya daaaaaaaamn that's actually a pretty good theory!
A boy does not see the Many Faced God here.
A boy is pissed.
That is because the house of black and white thinks that all this gods shown are actually just one with many faces.
***** A boy still believes they should have put him.
A boy is bored of Aria sweeping floors.
The title says 'in Westeros'.
+Armina Gaspariunaite A girl has a point. A boy respects it.
How someone can create this world just amazes me.
You're right, I'm also wondering how long it took for him to come up with something so amazing. He really must have believed in his self to invest so much time and energy
I've noticed something, The Seven is the only religion in GOT that has no physical evidence of truth.
Keegan McCoy Oh yeah, well we haven't spent a lot of time with the iron born.
I would say that there is not much evidence for any of the religions. Sure, Melisandre can pull off some fancy blood/fire magic, but that doesn't mean R'hollor is there empowering her. Maybe there are no real gods, just magic of different types that priests use to sell their dogma.
+Stage Lined Catelyn told Brienne that when she prayed to the Seven to kill Jon Snow he is struck with terrible maladies he is allegedly done so, and so is he cured of those maladies as she prays to the Seven to cure Jon Snow, although it could of course been a coincidence.
United Provinces of Atlantica That part is not in the book.
Stage Lined I see.
Also notable is the Dothraki's belief in the Great Stallion. They don't deny the existence of the other gods, but believe that A. their power depends on location, so the Seven have more power in Westeros than in Essos and B. the Great Stallion is more powerful everywhere than the other Gods (everyone uses horses, after all).
Yes but why did they not depend on this God to cross the sea and branch out? Why did it take a women (goddess of blood and fire) to make it happen?
@@egarallenpoe2681 they didn’t trust the water nor did they want to go.
They’re horses couldn’t drink it, and they have a pretty lucrative existence on Essos.
Plus, it was certainly the Dragons that got the people to follow Dany across the poison water
How amazing it is for a writer to actually delve into the religion of his characters, not just write a character and his back story, but to focus so much on a religion, which, to a certain extent, doesn't (or hasn't so far) affected the progress of the story, where his focus should be.
That is just genius!
The New Gods, well... they don't do jack shit; The Drowned God is just too wet and cold for my liking; with The Old Gods you can warg into animals, Hodor and travel through time; The Lord of Light can bring people back to life, birth shadow demons and promotes hot sexy sex with sexy red-heads.. For me it's a tie between the Old Gods and the Lord of Light, but if I had to choose between entering Hodor and entering Melisandre, I'd choose Melisandre...
Krisb BeatS Don't be talking about my new gods. And you worship a child burning lunatic lol.
Moshe Holmes
Gotta burn something
+Krisb BeatS that made me laugh a little to much I feel
xxlCortez Mmm.. no
After episode of "Red woman" you should probable change your comment :D
this Martin bro is stoned out of his mind
best comment ever
Lol I wonder how many people realize that "Lord of Light," "Light bringer," and "Morning Star" are all names for Lucifer.
Matthew Thiele That's an interesting thought
+Matthew Thiele I didn't, tell me more about it.
maybe thats why the god seems evil?
It's also like Christianity since its followers are always insisting that there is only one god.
Actually GRRM says the Lord of Light is based on Zoroastrianism, which was the first monotheistic religion and the foundation for good and evil in the middle east. The called their god the Lord of Light and are considered fire worshipers, because they believe fire to be holy and cleansing, and their Satan is a god of darkness.
"What is dead my never die" - Even though I am not a big fan of the Drowned God I still love those words
"Its your Gods with all the rules" lol, I love this line.
I'm AMAZED watching George explaining what he did in therms of every religion of the books, I think he's fucking genious and brilliant. He really nailed it with this story.
For those of you who are Legend of Zelda fans, I just want to say it now. Whenever I think of the children of the forest, I immediately think about the Kokiri people from Ocarina of Time.
Sad he didn't mention the God of Many Faces.
Because he's basically death.
+ShawndanonBeliever Whitehill Yup
"Westeros"
They weren't up to that point in the story when this came out
Why? The Many-faced God is just a mashup of the other religions.
I LOVE when authors and such talk about or explain the universe that they created.
this is why i love this show, so much lore it makes me want to learn more, can't wait to ead the books
RR is a mastermind, definitely deserves the cult following!
Anyone else notice martin saying "She's been there for a while" referring to her super old age. Wow!
Faith of the Seven: the christian trinity.
Lord of Light: Zoroastrian fire worship.
Old gods of the forest: obvious take on the Celtic religion of Britain, with green seers as druids.
I wonder so much of how one single mind and make up all these stories that intertwine each other in many different ways you didnt expect, and all the unnessesary details he put in to just one religion, tradition, the history and lore he puts into his books are amazing
Sorry Hbo, you forgot one more god. Great Other, enemy of the lord of light.
And the Storm Gods who the Baratheons are supposedly descended from and the the Storm God enemy of the Drowned God
04nbod The Storm Gods haven't been worshiped for centuries.
The Ironborn still consider the Storm God to be real in the context of the Drowned God
This video is by far the best of the season 2 features - for non-readers like me, it provides new insights into the world of Westeros. More like this please! We don't need recaps and trailers, we need the lore and exposition that can't be fully appreciated from just the tv show!
It's kind of strange hearing George r r martin talk about westeros. He doesn't sound like the man who thought of it all. He just sounds like a really big game of thrones fan.
"Under the banner of a turtle, Lord Martin spread terror throughout Westeros. Except where there was a slight incline, and there he was foiled."
What would be cool to see would be one of the factions, most likely Stannis for many reasons, is gunpowder, cannons or some other slightly advanced tech to be introduced/discovered and hailed as "the lord of light's magic", that would be interesting.
I like the swords better.... the cannons can come, but the gunpowder needs to stay out
diamond woods Think REALLY hard about what you just said.
It's always really interesting to draw the parallels with real-world religions. The Faith of the Seven obviously has some parts in common with Christianity, brings a little more paganism into it with sexualized gods and goddesses. The religion with the Red God seems similar to Zoroastrianism with its sacred flames and "eastern" origin, and Rholler and the Great Other resemble the duality of Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu.
The Fire god and the Great Other (The winter god) are two sides of the same god. This god is not a benevolent god. The war for the dawn is just an amusing diversion for this god. Westeros is a world trapped within the Warp, endlessly repeating cycles to the tune of the capricious will of the Dark God of Chaos. The Emperor protects.
This is so great, thank you, and please do more!
well technically.. wouldn't George Martin be the one true God? :P
George R.R. Martin really went into detail when writing the books! Left no stone unturned with all the finer details to make Game of Thrones as real as possible! Amazing really.
Spoiler Alert in this comment, only read if you know what AA and TPTWP are.
Did he just confirm that AA and TPTWP are the same. I assumed they are two separate prophecies, one for Jon, and one for Dany.
yes he did
Sry for my bad english, i never learned this language. But George R. R. Martin only confirmed is the TPTWP and the Lightbringer belong together isn't? Azor Ahai can be someone else.
Kiss Edmond TPTWP is Azor Ahai and lightbringer therefore belongs to either.
The Prince That Was Promised is Azor Ahai
It's hard to believe that all of this; this whole new world with so much depth and history came from within his mind. I love you George, you're my idol.
There's only one true God: Death
RandomMindz No. The one true god is the one between a woman's legs.
RandomMindz syrio forel
I' impressed with how well the topic of religion is treated in general in the books and show.
So it doesn't matter whether you are or aren't religious in real life; you can relate to the struggles of these poor unlucky mortals, in a world which seems to have colossal forces at work, well beyond the comprehension of the characters in the story.
I love how the Faith of the Seven is obviously supposed to be based off of Catholicism and yet the Seven is the only religion in ASOIAF with no physical proof of existence.
+Nathaniel Berry None of them have proven they exist
scapelife ressurection
+scapelife
The old gods clearly talk to people through weirwoods, and the children exist
The drowned god brings people back to life
R'hllor prophecies tend to come true, and mel resurrects people
Left wing- Technocrat
I think that's all more magic people taking as signs of faith rather than a god's direct intervention
Also I'm pretty sure the Drowned God resurrection thing is really just CPR in the books, not sure been while
scapelife
I think rhllor is the one, mostly because of story reasons, he's an exact opposite of winter, plus, the story originated in the shadow lands, told by people who couldn't have known about white walkers or their weaknesses
After reading all the books and never seeing the series, this video was so interesting, to hear George himself summarize some parts of the series!
The Lord of Light is the best religion
keep reading...
erurevir I am conflicted around this new god. He demonstrates his divine power, and is probably the true god of all the religions in Westeros, but... my conscious feels... uneased... by the morality of this god. I truly wonder which of the gods in Westeros I would have worshipped if I lived there.
*****
The great other would have my support.
Seriously fuck westeros...these people deserve a good long night.
***** The god of your forefathers obviously, not many people are well educated enough to know about all religions, and they sure as hell don't teach that at school!
kodohumper Truth is more important to me than tradition.
I actually thought for a long time that Beric Dondarrion was Azor Ahai, and I'm still convinced he's a strong candidate.
Daenerys and Stannis could be, in their own ways, a warrior of light too, but Beric is (I can say it with very minor spoiler) clearly in strong communication with a divine force, which kind of possess him.
I'm curious if there are "actual" gods in the world of Westeros, Essos, Sothoryus etc.
Red priests have been able to resurrect and kill people through prayers and sacrifacing, and there are Greenseers, bestowed upon the First men 'n the CotF, which in some cases let them make use of the Weirwood trees.
The Seven, the Drowned God, the Storm God, the Lion of Yi Ti, the Sheep god and all the other gods have yet to 'prove themselves' in my opinion.
Some of them may be real, but that doesn't mean that they should necessarily be considered 'gods'.
There is only one god and his name is death. Death have proven himself allot more than any of the other gods.
.... and what do we say to death?
Also, guys. You're forgetting about 'The Other', I have a feeling that Rh'llor and The Other are the main guys behind all of this story. The Lord of Light has been proven, but I mean... how do the Others and the Whites even become Others/Whites?
Food for thought?
That's very reflective of our own world. Every religion has had prophets and people resurrected by monks or priests or people with divine power. every religion claims they have people that speak to gods and have people that claim to have met their god. So which one is really true? It's fascinating c:
Rh'llor's power with Melisandre and Thoros is true and very evident, though? In comparison to hearsay of priests and monks.
Is it bad, when I feeling depressed and need to think, I walk into the hills behind my house and sit by the trees now? All because of these books. It's quite peaceful actually.
Then ask yourself: if it is peaceful, why is it bad? You feel you're bretraying your faith for a fantasy book that gives you comfort? Isn't it, in all reality, the bible a fantasy book which gives the belivers comfort as well? "But the Bible is the word of God" yes and GoT is the word of a man who created Gods. Couldn't we, the human race, have created God, the same way G.R.R.M created theirs, to give us comfort in times of uncertanty? Enjoy your peace in the hills, have no guilt for you have done nothing wrong. Guilt is the single most useless feeling in the world, and guilt is the fuel of religion. That's why you're having this thoughts.
Nacho Vanhardisk
Too true, I just felt bad about it because it shows how much these books have affected me.
I'm actually an Atheist, more specifically a LaVeyan Satanist.
At first I always thought Satanists were evil people that sacrificed and killed things for Satan. Boy was a wrong. If you ever want to have an interesting read, go read up on the Satanic Rules and Statements. They make FAR more sense then anything from the bible.
I'd love to do that haha just fall asleep in the summer grass at sunset
Valar Morghulis
ChBrahm Valar Dohaeris.
Yeah, I feel like he made that fairly obvious, almost from the beginning. Like the geography of Westeros though, he's made sure to change things up and add his own elements to create a truly unique religion. Even the religion of the Red God is a little different. It seems more puritanical, calling for eradication of other religions, while Zoroastrianism stresses cooperation. The Great Other is supposed to be defeated by violence, while Ahura Mazda combats Angra Mainyu with good deeds.
Pretty sure GRRM just confirmed Azor Ahai and the Prince that was promised are the same people.
Aren’t they the same person
People in A Song of Ice and Fire are just like people in the real world: they're too interested in their own self-interests to pay attention to or know when their prayers have been answered. Plus, they're too busy praying for what they want instead of what they need.
The Summer Gods Are the best!
"with 16 teets"
the relationship between the both could go either way! can't wait! :)
They didn't say anything about the faceless god. :P
Well thats cause the Faceless God is just another way of saying death, which a lot of the religions in Westeros have a specific name for. Kinda get the feeling it was a way ofr the faceless men to integrate everyone: they all have a name for death, so lets give them one common name for it.
SuggestiveWhiteFluff
yeah, I think the faceless god is sort of like Buddhism, a way of living, self sacrifice and the like, although I'm pretty sure there aren't faceless magic men in the real world.
Huh. Must have been thinking of the many faced god. the Faceless men are the assassins...dunno what the hell I was thinking but O_o
Watch the first ten seconds again...
Martin has said in a previous interview (not associated with the HBO show) that the Seven is his interpretation of Catholicism. Makes sense, especially when you read Book 4 and see some of the inner-workings of the Citadel and the Order.
the first time i see a video about religion with not many dislike and no war going in comments
I absolutely love these videos with Mr. Martin!
How many of you are here after Season 8 Episode 6?
👇🏾
snfly tyd I hate the god of Melisandre
great
So the old gods were around before the first men... that makes me wonder who passed the religion to the first men and what happened to them. Could they have gone on to be the Others?
The Children of the Forest were driven away by the Andals during their invasion of Westeros. The Andals used to be as intolerant as the red priests of R'hollor. Because they weren't able to completely conquer the First Men (the ones who lived in the North stopped the Andals at the Neck), they developed a more peaceful relationship with the Northmen after thousands of years of coexistence.
sometimes i like going around and saying "by the old gods and the new" it just sounds so cool
The God of light is based on Zoratrianism I'm guessing seeing as they were the first monotheistic religion and their main form of worship is around an ever burning fire. The 7 is a nod to Catholicism. I mean the nuns, the priests, the money, it's all there. The drowned God sounds like some Greek mythology stuff. The old gods sound like a lot of native and indegenous religions where they believe in the spirit of nature. The true God is the many faced God or he could be the true devil. Who knows?
Definitely the Dragons were the reason why the powers of various sorcerers increased and why magic is becoming stronger with each book. Perhaps the Septons and Septas would be capable of miracles or "magic" as well, but all the Maesters across Westeros keep reiterating that Magic does not exist. How can the priests of the Seven even attempt to perform a miracle if they dont even belief in their willpower? It's such a beautiful religion, I wish it was actually more practical ;(
Martin worships the Phallus God.
When I read the LOTR triology I thought there should have been some kind religion included. It just played such an important role in medival society that you feel something's missing when you leave it out of a fantacy story.
Read the silmarillion dude..
Joe Pesci is my god.
People who say "STOP DOING OTHER STUFF AND WRITE THE NEXT BOOK" (and people who thumb that stuff up) should be ashamed. George has said before that he cannot only work on the book for too long. The only things that these comments and messages do is depress him and make him angry, if he even reads them. Be mature. He takes his time. Deal with it.
Actually the word ''septos'' means ''holy''in ancient and modern greek
I am reading the books. I'm on A Storm of Swords, but there's something in the visual cinemotography of the show that gives new insight.
In my fantasy book I've made so that the religions are in fact one and the same, and the only difference between them are the aspects and cultures in them
I can see that working if it's set in a localised area - say, continental Europe during the dark ages through to the Crusades, but if the same religion is practiced the world over I think there should be a reasonable in-universe explanation for it.
Joaquin602001 The gods once came down to the people in three seperate continents and told that all their religions are all the same
Joaquin602001
There was a time when Christianity almost completely dominated the part of the world that roughly corresponds to e.g. GRRM's Westeros and Essos, but it still caused conflict and had numerous denominations:
-In the east (the Balkans and modern Turkey) centered in Byzantium you had Orthodox Christianity under the Patriarchate of Constantinople, which was doctrinally derived from the decisions of the "Church Fathers" or first patriarchs at the seven Ecumenical Councils following the first called by Emperor Constantine. Spread to Russia but had a minor schism that resulted in the present-day distinction between Eastern Orthodoxy and Greek Orthodoxy.
-The above was the "Roman Church" (as Byzantium was the Eastern Roman Empire) until the Great Schism, which resulted in the establishment of Catholicism. The essential doctrine of Catholicism was not much different except that the Bishop of Rome claimed to be the Heir of Saint Peter and Vicar of Christ, and beneath him appointed a more rigid hierarchy of prelates and priests, and also in that it emphasized monasticism slightly more heavily.
-In the South of France, Lombardy, and possibly into the Pyrenees there was a version of Christianity that isn't well understood because it was purged by the Catholics during the Albigensian Crusade (c. 1220-1250), but mainly seems to have rejected papal supremacy, priestly hierarchy, and also some if not all of the Catholic and Orthodox sacraments e.g. baptism and communion with transubstantiation. (As people plainly got married in this region just about as often, I'd say marriage was an exception.) It might have had its own sacraments such as an alleged "consolamentum" similar to Last Rites. It was called Catharism or Albigensianism by Catholics and equated with an older Middle Eastern Christian religion called Manichaeism, though many Catholic notions about it were probably wrong. Effectively extinguished by mass murder by 1250, except underground holdouts hunted by the Papal Inquisition (though the inquisitors mostly just terrorized innocent people).
-From the 15th C. on there were of course Lutheranism and Calvinism which especially caught on in Northern Europe and the Reformation led to horrendously bloody religious wars even though everyone involved was definitely Christian.
-This one is arguable, but the core tenants of Islam are pretty similar to those of Christianity--It is a universal (i.e. not ethnically-exclusive in any way) religion descended from Judaism; claims devotion to one supreme god who is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and entirely benevolent and beneficent; and has similar views on the afterlife (i.e. there's a Heaven and Hell and you go to one or the other forever based on how good you were in life).
So especially if we include Islam--and remember that there was a Crusade against the Albigensians who, even if heretics, were most definitely Christian, and also that Crusaders in the Middle East killed Orthodox or other minority Christians without much hesitation at times, so the Crusades alone aren't really good reason not to--there was/has been a very long period of time when the world from Ireland to Persia (eventually to include North and South America for the most part) followed the "same religion", BUT we should remember that it did little to nothing to prevent religious conflict, AND that it is possible to see all of these also as distinct religions at the same time.
Had Buddhism never evolved, though, it's easy to imagine an alternate history where the whole world would have ended up either Christian, Muslim, or atheist (probably with minorities of Jews, Hindus, and a smattering of followers of other African and Eastern religions, but in relatively insignificant numbers).
So TL;DR a one-religion world is not far-fetched, but a world where everyone agrees enough about that religion not kill each other over it probably is.
TreasonousBastard And that's just the reason why.
The entire fantasy world I made is completely secular...sort of. But the people won't kill each other because they don't believe the same divine way
IShallUseFire! If it's a solely secular society in which there is no conflict regarding religion, then what is the point of having religion other than ornamenting your world with a shallow parallel to our own? Not trying to be overly critical of your work, especially since I haven't read it, but I'm genuinely curious. Why did you decide to include it in the novel if it has no baring on the way people behave? I imagine whomever exists in your society must be extremely different from us if their beliefs on creation are never a matter of dispute in any circumstance.
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
The only true gods are the old gods
I don't know if it's because of how he's explaining them us or if it's because it's another world, but it's beautiful. I think in this world, if you really believe it then it's real.
See Muslims and Christians, you can see for yourself how easily are religions made. You write a book, put some supernatural powers, and events that no man can do. Describe the creation of everything you can see with a naked eye, put some rules to follow and put fear into everyone by raising them to be religious and tell them they'll burn forever is they disobey you.
Superman is my god
Very interresting! There is a lot more backstory than i thought!
There is only one god . and jesus his prophet not his son
That's what you believe, which some others consider heresy. Christians believe Jesus IS that one God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one single being with three revelations. I'm not religious but if you're not prepare to be called a heretic, don't dish it out.
i am not heretic . but jesus didnt say im god or son , pluse i belive jesus Ibrahim and Noah Isac Mohamed al of those guys are prophet and they share the same idea but christians still stupid sorry for the wards but they still think jesus is son hes not son of god hes justa prophet and god toke him to him , hes not dead and he will come back again to save us but still hes not Son of god , god says i dont have son or father or mother or anything in his book and he said : He begets not, nor was He begotten.
And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him
another stupid that has been living in earth least than a hundred years and thinks he is right
Sari Farsi TV let's sacrifice you to the Lord of light
Oh absolutely, I definitely consider Jon to be a true Stark, when I said that I was mostly referring to that his/her theory was focusing on the "true" Stark family when the trueborn children.
Braavosi gods and temples seem so much more interesting! Can't wait to see more Braavos and Dorn in future seasons!
For the night is dark and full of terrors! May the prince that was promised appear soon to fight the Darkness!!
winds of winter can't come soon enough!
Freth not, for (The Winds of) Winter is coming!
Now that's just being a party pooper, thanks alot.
Some families dont like the idea of "sharing their power" with other families, marrying your sibling is a great way to keep all the power for yourself and not making any obligations. Plus he married his sister because his father forced him to do so, they never consummated. He later dissolved the marriage, and had her, along with the rest of his sisters locked away in the "Maiden Vault" so they could not tempt him.
How the hell did he think all of these??? He's a freaking genius!
At 3:58 He really wanted to say "Feast and Fuck". Nice save George. Nice save.
SWEET! I love these clips.
George RR Martin - you look like some sort of aquatic captain for Santa Claus with that goofy hat you wear.
Ned, we miss you. RIP.
George... you wee legend
Because when you have written something as magnificent as Game of Thrones you don't need to look like a great writer because you already are.
I think Sirio meant it as a metaphor of sorts, telling Arya that "death" is all she should be worrying about, or rather, no god should influence the way one fights, that it should be completely secular. "Death," in this case, is looked at as both a proper and improper noun, using the word "death" as both a god, and the actual act of dying. The latter, though, is what Sirio is trying to convey to her in a pious way.
R'llor guide us, you gave us fire to fend off the night. For the night is dark and full of terrors
that is indeed a good point. but for me the question is more about being accepted as normal. that also includes that we have exactly the same rights. also when you grow up with religious values and then suddenly you have to realize that all these values exclude you this is something really hard to cope with.
I cracked up xD
Congrats to you sir!
it may not have been touched on much in LOTR, but in his other works relating to Arda (the world LOTR takes place in) the Valar are frequently talked about, especialy in the silmarillion. they are like archangels, sort of, with the creator being Eru
my two favourite authors!!
lol my pleasure :)
I just love comparing GRRM's world to ours :D
Have to do a presentation about religion in a film or series :), first thing that crossed my mind :D
Not sure if you're kidding, "Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, The Hound (sorry if you were)
He did, the god of the faceless men is Death. The red god is Rhollor the Lord of light. The other main god is of the white walkers, the Great other..but he didn't mention that because they haven't yet covered that in the show yet..
He's working on it. Chill. ;P Can't wait though.
perfectly true. A very valid point my friend
Good break down of the religions of Westeros . . . . they did forget to mention the Lord of light's name . . R'hllor . . . The Night is Dark and full of Bammers . .
I was looking to hear more about the more obscure religions. Many Faced God, the Lion of Night, etc.
What I find most interesting about R'hllor is the ambiguity shown through Melisandre and Thoros of Myr. Are either of them drawing upon "divine power" to achieve their feats of the supernatural?