The only people who didn't know that Ozymandias won were the people who didn't watch the movie. His victory is pretty well known. He literally won 35 minutes before he explained his plan to the protagonists and went out of his way to tell them just that. Everything he set out to do happened and everybody knew this.
The movie does kind of imply that Rorschach left behind contingencies to make sure Ozy didn’t get away with it. Meaning Ozy wouldn’t have won. This video details how unlikely it is that Rorschach’s plans would lead to very much. That said, I was on the same page as y’all.
Actually, the true winner of watchmen is ambiguous. Before veidt did what he did, Rorschach sent a journal revealing Veidts actions to a news press. The ending shows someone looking into a stash containing the journal for new info for the paper but it is not known whether the journal got published or not.
@@daniellewis4154 Additionally, Rorschach's journal is detailed. It's not just deranged ramblings or wild finger-pointing. It's a complete write-up of everything that happened from the start of his investigation (since it's quite literally the narration of the comic/movie). It's so thorough that any 2-bit detective could follow the clues and figure out everything the same as Rorschach did. Ozymandias might have won in the short term, but how long that lasts is very much up in the air.
Nobody. They always throw an obvious or controversial one into these lists to get people to rage in the comments because it boosts engagement and that makes the algorithm gods happy.
@@justinhall3469no it wouldn’t have lol the video is movie villains you DIDN’T know had won. The whole point of Se7en’s ending is that he won, same for Watchmen but they put it on here anyways for some dumb reason.
I can't agree that the villain in Se7en won. He killed an unborn child that was bearing no sin. So he made a mistake when he killed the detectives wife. And he only did this to piss off the detective, nothing else. He made his own killing series pointless.
@@4Astaroth You’re misinterpreting the movie and his plan. He’s completed Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Lust, and Pride before he is arrested. John Doe kills Mill’s wife and child out of Envy. Mills’ kills Doe, completing Wrath. The person committing the sin does not need to die. But there’s a killing for each sin. Killing an extra person does not invalidate his successful plan, as they both died for Envy. John Doe got everything he wanted.
Strange to see no one came to say that Snow did not trick Katniss. In the book Primrose dies in an explosion designed by Gale, which was meant as a trap for Capital soldiers, but was bastardized by the Rebel leader to kill their own forces to gain sympathy for the rebels by pinning it on Snow. Katniss knows this because Gale had previously demonstrated the bombs to her. The "talk" is Snow letting Katniss know that the new leaders are the same. Katniss takes revenge on her sister and shows both sides that she knows what is right and wrong, rejecting the current leader of the Rebels and cementing herself as non choice for leading. She is left alive as she has gained to much fame and is pretty much untouchable. However, exiled she is left as a reminder to Panam if things go corrupt again she is there to set things right, so in a way, while she is racked with survives guilt and PTSD, Katniss own existence is the biggest deterrent and best victory. TL:DR Katniss won her own way, playing by her own rules.
And Snow's primary goal wasn't about Coin and Katniss it was about the permanent supression of the districts to preserve the wealth and privilege of the Capitol.
This exactly. Coin had no plans to relinquish the presidency for the official election as was supposed to happen. Coin would have just become another Snow and the cycle would have began anew. And Katniss realized that she was the only one that could stop the cycle
What happens in the book does not happen in the film. It's not the same story. Snow was likely telling the truth, but it's not certain. Did he fooled her? We don't know for sure. Either way, Snow was the one who persuaded Katniss to kill the rebel leader, his final power play. He was the one who put revenge into her heart, he was the one who opened her eyes to what Coin would become.
Except Azog didn't end the line of Durin, just Thorin's, who apparently never had children anyway. In fact one of Dain Ironfoot's children became King Under the Mountain after him, and eventually became an ancestor of Durin VII. Also GIMLI was of the male bloodline of Durin. C'mon, now.
I'd been of the impression Azzog's thing was ending Thorrin's bloodline, not durin's. In the aftermath of Thorrin beating him in a fight. If that is the case, then Azzog did actually complete his objective. But I don't really feel like doing the rewatching necessary to actually know for sure what Azzog's exact vendetta statement was
@@edschramm6757Two things: Azog. One 'z'. Also, they actually say, in the video above, at 1:35, "Orc war chief Azog the Defiler's plan was to wipe out the male bloodline of Durin by killing Thorin Oakenshield and his nephews Fili and Kili." I was simply pointing out that, while he did kill those three, it wouldn't (and didn't) wipe out the male line of Durin. But I'm sure we all appreciate you adding nothing but your own misinfo to the conversation. Cheers.
@@Rheubie they do state that in the video, but I'm not sure how accurate their statement within the video was is my thing. It's possible they got it right, but there have been instances before where stuff in videos doesn't hold up flawlessly when looked at closely. If I'm wrong, fine, but their accuracy in the past has left something to be desired. Though come to think of it, it explains why he attacked the dwarves in the flashback, beyond "we want that place".
@edschramm6757 in reality it's just a personal vendetta against thorin. He doesn't care at all about fili and kili and it's not like he has time to realize and celebrate his "success," so that's already weird to put on the list. Not to mention, there are a hundred comments about the other films and how they shouldn't be on the list either.
I'm always shocked that Maleficent isn't on lists like this. She wants to hurt the king and queen, and she manages to force them into missing their daughter's entire childhood. By the time she returns, she's in love and off to be married. She technically knows they are her parents, but she'll almost certainly never have a normal parent child relationship with them. She destroyed that family for years, and though they might have a future, it will forever be marred by the taint of that time apart. She didn't care about killing Aurora, she cared about the King and Queen suffering emotionally. She 100% got that for at least 16 years, and likely many years to come.
With the exception of Freddy's Dead, didn't Freddy Krueger win at the end of every movie in the original Nightmare on Elm Street series? He's momentarily defeated but then there's always the last scene jump-scare where it turns out he's still invading dreams and killing people.
One of the reasons why I always preferred Friday the 13th's Jason over Freddy growing up. At least that series had final girls. With Freddy there was no hope.
I always felt the instructor won in Whiplash and didn't realize people thought otherwise. The film established how the drummer was at his best when under pressure and not knowing the music or customs. The plot to get him on a stage with an unfamiliar song was sheer brilliance to force him into his best work. It might not have been right, but he played him well.
It is and it is such a core part of the plot it is ridiculous to think that people 'didn't realize'. It is also quite a common plot in movies that show a teacher and a student, where the lesson to be learned in the end is for the student to somehow defeat the master.
Azog doesn't wipe out the line of Durin in the Hobbit film. Dain is Thorin's cousin and is also of the line of Durin, several others in the party like Balin are also (more distantly) related to him, and of that line as well.
@aidangriffiths5075 wrong! Females can be direct descendants. The dwarves recognize that true, the orcs recognized that as true, and especially author did. So kinda makes you a fake fan!
The Joker ultimately won when Two-Face went on his rampage in The Dark Knight and was further proven correct by the actions of Gotham’s citizens while under Bane’s occupation in The Dark Knight Rises.
No, he didn't win. His ultimate goal was to plunge Gotham into chaos which didn't happen. The people on the boats refused to kill each other too, preventing themselves from becoming murderers. Batman took the blame so Gotham could retain hope, which is what Joker didn't want. He didn't win.
@@whosaidthat84 Joker absolutely won. He proved to Batman that the White Knight of Gotham was corruptible, even if Batman wasn't. The fact the people on the boat didn't kill each other is meaningless with this greater victory in mind. It's a pretty old concept in terms of Batman comics, read The Killing Joke. Joker simply wants to show everyone that they're one bad day away from being him, which is exactly what he achieved with Harvey. He tells Batman that he brought Harvey down to their level and literally has the last laugh. Batman taking the blame doesn't nullify that victory, in fact it's the opposite.
@@SamADTR meaningless? Bro, i get you're a Joker fan but that boat incident is a huge L for Joker. The greater victory is that Gotham still has hope. Gotham still believes. They didn't descend into chaos. Even when Gordon says "Then Joker has won," Bruce cuts him off and says "No, I killed those people." How did Joker win? He brought Harvey down but he's just one person, which we all knew was gonna happen because we all know who Two Face is. Even in Rises, the Dent Act brought peace to Gotham which meant they didn't need Batman for 8 years. So how did Joker win?
@@whosaidthat84 you think the necessity for the cover up doesn’t automatically imply Joker’s victory? They might have gotten 8 years of peace from it but he still won. He corrupted the seemingly incorruptible. He got all of the criminals out of prison through that process. He won. The boat was a loss for coincidental, plot armour reasons but he literally has the last laugh as he tells Batman it doesn’t even matter because he brought Gotham’s white knight down to their level. “Did you really think I would gamble the battle for Gotham’s soul in a fist fight with you?”
@@SamADTR the lie was about Batman's sacrifice. And yes, 8 years peace nullifies any victory he may have had. Gotham never became a cesspool of chaos. Isn't that what Joker wanted all along?
Why were people under the impression that Rorschach’s journal would have doomed the world to nuclear Armageddon? The only thing that Rorschach knew at the point when he dropped the journal into the drop box of the tabloid was that Ozymandias was responsible for the death of The Comedian, the cancer of the people who worked under him and other incidents that led to Rorschach’s arrest. He didn’t know the full extent of Veidt’s plan until he explained it to him 35 minutes after he activated his device. No one would have been able to trace it back to Veidt, given his intelligence he didn’t leave enough of a trail to follow.
Rorschach would have easily speculated... nobody says that nuclear superpowers are going to immediately start WWIII but that the false peace would collapse without the unifying threat sublimating competing interests. So the plan DID fail as the return to the Status Quo would be the end result instead of a worldwide unification.
technically, it kind of did. In the dc comics its explained that when rorsach's journal got published, it made people realize what happened, and anarchy reigned, with nukes flying all over the world
@@blitzthecrimson3207 How!? Rorschach’s journal only covers up to the point that they’re about to go to Antarctica. It says nothing about the complete extent of Veidt’s plan or how much destruction he causes and Dr. Manhattan kills Rorschach before he can even tell anyone else. Also, Ewan from What Culture stated it, Rorschach put his journal in the drop box of a tabloid, which is only in the business of selling interesting stories to the public, whether they’re true or not is irrelevant to them.
"The Watchmen" HBO series does a way better job expanding on this than the DC comics did and a good example of adapted material being better than the written material.
Sorry, about Durin's bloodline! Thorin, son of Thrain, son of Thrór were the ruling line. Thrór's brother was Grór (Thorin great uncle) and his line were all descended from Durin to! Even Gimili was a bloodline descendant!
Who doesn't understand that Ozzymandias fullfilled his quest successfully? That one is quite a bit of a stretch, as far as the topic goes. And when there are some other good examples out there. For example, what about Helmut Zemo from Avengers: Civil War? He gets arrested in the end and faces life in prison, so all's well that ends well, but his goal was to break down the Avengers - which he absolutely did.
@@nrais76shit you could say he drove the entire plot of star trek when his war on earth resulted in a new stone age leading to first contact, meanwhile the borg make the rest of the events happen, in the end its only two entities that push the entire narrative
An unintentional consequence of Khans lust to kill Kirk. Khan did not save Earth, but you could say that he helped keep Kirk in play to save earth, but then again maybe Kirk would have been on some other adventure, some other mission or some other event would have kept Kirk away from Earth when the probe initially arrived. Saying Khan saved earth is like saying Star Fleet saved earth because it promoted Kirk, or allowed him to be on the Enterprise for a training mission, which is actually more of the reason why Kirk actually was in the position he was in with Khan to eventually save Earth.
Hmm you're right about Freddy Krueger. He did achieve his goal, the complete eradication of the children of the people who banded together and killed him when the courts failed to punish Freddy due to a legal technicality.
They're implying the audience doesnt know the villian won. 99% of the audience knew he won before the charectors. So it shouldnt be on this list at all.
I loved that part. Most villains tell their evil plan and the heros have the time to stop it, but he actually already set it in motion and then was just, playing around. By the time they realized it was too late. And the journal would only have his doubts and info, not the final facts. And indeed, who would believe his ravings vs a known and respected hero turned clean businessman?
Callahan did not show regret for Tadashi. His response when confronted on the matter was that it was Tadashi’s fault he went into the fire. Also, it’s a stretch to say he rescued his daughter. He had given up on ever finding her.
A big one for me is captain America civil war, zemo did go to jail yes and no average died but he still did real damage. He sparked a conflict between them all that created real lasting damage that it took them years to get past. Also more than that it he saw to it that the avengers knew who his family were and felt really regret for what had happened.
Though given the implications of the movie, personally, I don't think he was the main villain of the movie (or even politically Russian, for that matter). You had a person able to suspiciously easily manipulate UN officials, able to turn the public against a private organisation that was previously gaining more financial and political backing than the USA itself, creating conflict in the group itself. Eliminate the leader of a nation, stockpiling the most durable substance on earth leaving everthing to someone much younger. Ultimately, the Avengers gave up their independence to the state, and all he got was seeing Cap and Ironman fighting.
How could you forget Thanos? Technically, he won....it took the Avengers having to travel thru time to reverse everything he did, but he accomplished what he set out to do and won when you think about it.
Thanos was narrow-minded. 50% of a population is solved in a generation. 75% doubles the efficiency at half the extra cost Changing fertility rates would have been the true answer
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 what are u talking about? I'm not here arguing whether his goal was correct or flawed, that's a whole other topic. All I stated is that he succeeded in his goal of reducing the population of the universe in half.
@@vicmo25 I'm not arguing about that either, just adding my two cents Did not watch the movie, but from what I got, his goal was reducing the overpopulation and exhaustion of natural resources throughout the galaxy. Reducing all populations by half was the means by which he wanted to achieve it But like I said, I did not watch it yet, so I could be wrong here
Its pretty dumb of thanos if the natural resource being exhausted is his reason for wiping the population to half. Cause if so why not just make the resources regenerate or something to that degree. But killing people just to control the consumption of resources is really idiotic cause in time those same resources will still be exhausted.
Kevin Spacey's character in Se7en, he got what he wanted, "what's in the box what's in the box!" I actually like The Hobbit movies, I watch the extended editions before Lord of the Rings extended editions and tend to wonder if the haters are even judging the extended editions or only the theatrical versions Anyone that lives on Elm Street should just move, or at least nap Elsweyr, problem solved lol 😝 Many fans consider Khan Star Trek's biggest villian, appearing in Space Seed & Wrath of Khan, but the true biggest villains are NBC as that bit on SNL with John Belushi would tell you 😁
The Hobbit films were okay, in fact if they weren't called 'The Hobbit' and used Tolkien Characters I would say they were excellent. The problem is that the book was short enough it should have been only one movie, or at most two, the padding is what raises ire.
@@frednone I actually read Hobbit before LoTR, and found the book lacking... reading it as a kid, it had far less action and epic battles even for a children's story (compare to something like Narnia or Arthurian legends, even the Oz stories). But the movie trilogy was just one big fanservice for me! LOVED THEM! Also, understand that Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age-sized epicness NEVER GETS THE BUDGET ON THE BIG SCREEN. So the reality is if it wasn't called Hobbit, it just wouldn't exist. Fantasy doesn't get big bucks, only Peter Jackson did. They can't even adapt most of Discworld!.. Any epic fantasy ends up being either videogame-based-trash, schlocky B-movies, or Tolkien.
In the King movie, he even causes more deaths after the sound is turn off by suicide & even more murder. For example, the woman who stopped b4 killing her baby, means that there are parents, grandparents, babysitters, aunts/uncles, caretakers, etc who murdered a lot of kids & because of the guilt they committed suicide or even some go crazy & go on a murder spree. This even applies to ones who didn't kill kids, they commit suicide or go on a murder spree because they awaken to actually liking it, which brings the global population down even more.
I can't remember if you featured Silva from "Skyfall" but he certainly deserves to be on the list! He wanted M to "pay for her sins" and since Judi Dench's portrayal was killed off, that means he ultimately won! Also, until the "Home Al007ne" scene at the end, he was pretty much one step ahead of everybody at MI6!
I don't think we were even meant to think that Khan didn't cause a huge mess even in defeat. One of the things that makes Wrath of Khan great is that it really shows the lasting effects of battle; events in that movie carried over and affected all subsequent films in a way that no other ST film did. And even within the film, you see the tragedy of war, what with stuff like Scott's nephew being killed. The whole point of the movie is that Kirk *barely* won - and he did win, because Khan surely did want to kill Kirk *after* hurting him. But Kirk won at a huge cost, and a lot of that cost was due to his own mistakes.
I love how in the first few seconds of this clip they showed the hunger games and the fact nobody knows how to use a bow. Her nose would be stripped off lol
4:10 i don't think Snow fooled Katniss in the slightest. I think he was always honest with her; that was part of their relationship. I think her training within The Game kicked in, _"Remember Who The Real Enemy Is..."_ I think Katniss knew she would have to do it when she agreed to the new game, and only agreed so Coin would trust her enough to give her the opportunity. If Coin hadn't trusted Katniss she could have (she probably should have) ordered a force shield for personal protection~ they had the technology.
@@johnwerner69 and where would we get epic orc and elf battles then, just MMOs? It was very obvious ONLY the Hobbit would get funding for making a fantasy epic (which the book is not), and they ran with it. As someone who was missing action in the Hobbit original story, I liked that movies improved on that.
4:15 No, just no. That's not what happened. She was a monster just like him. Snow simply pointed that out and laughed because she had victory ripped from her arms at the last second. Both of them lost. The entire first failed rebellion, which mind you is the reason for the Hunger Games, started because she lost an election against him in the books and wanted power for herself, she never cared for those under her and were just using all of them like pawns, Snow points this out and Katniss decides to try to end the cycle. Which she ultimately fails to do so as the council decides to continue the Hunger Games.
I'm not sure i count president snow as having won. The closest id get is if you consider his conflict with Coin, then sure, he outlasts her (probably only by about 30 seconds, but still). But it felt less like that was his goal, and more like when he realized he was doomed, he had the respect for Katniss to at least let her know what kind of person Coin was.
@@ssvensicOzy believed himself to be a god and that he could shape men's hearts, there was no guarantee that his plan would work or that long term World War 3 still wouldn't happen. He killed millions based on a hypothetical.
8. Callahan is responsible for felony murder--he caused the death of Hiro's brother in the commision of another felony--arson. Also, lots of attempted murder. That's more than a few years behind bars, and he doesn't get to spend them with his daughter.
Actually, Callaghan committed manslaughter. He didn’t intend for tadashi to be killed in the fire as tadashi made the decision to go into the fire that killed him in a misguided attempt to save Callaghan
Yeah but even if he doesn't get to spend much time with hisdaughter he does get to live knowing that she is actually alive and is going to be well, wich is more than he had before he started his plan.
Predestination- 2 interpretations 1. The protagonist and antagonist are the same, Jane, John and the Fizzy Bomber. In this regard, the Fizzy Bomber’s bombings simply to interact with other aspects of himself throughout time are successful. He missed them dreadfully. 2. Robertson, the head of the Temporal Agency is the ultimate villain, as he was the person who set everything in motion. If there could ever be a moment considered zero point, where there hasn’t yet been a paradoxical loop of time, it would be Robertson’s actions that start it. Sometime after the discovery of time travel, he discovered a perfectly intersexual being and put this being on course to meet themselves several times, culminating in them giving birth to themselves. In fact, knowing that time travel has debilitating effects on the psyche of agents, he set this experiment in motion. The pain of Jane and John’s lives, the losses caused by the Fizzy Bomber and much more can be laid at the feet of Robertson and he was absolutely successful in his efforts.
How exactly is Snow the villain who won? Its made abundantly clear that he lost, and if you claim her killing Coin meant he won, not really, it was painted pretty clearly in both book and film she was a villain too, and the bigger threat. He also died minutes after her so really not a win for Snow.
Yeah his scene in the film with Katniss in his greenhouse he basically says he should have paid more attention to Coin. Also basically telling Katniss she’s just as bad or worse than him.
I'd argue that while Snow is very much the villain for the most part, once Coin enters the story is fairly obvious that she's is hands down much worse than Snow. And for what it's worth, if we want to pick a place when Snow won, it'll be back when he and Katniss promise not to lie to each other. Coin on the other hand was mostly lies and deceit.
whiplash they both kinda won, charlie got to be one of the greats, somebody that will be talked about at dinner tables even after death, and fletcher got proof that pushing someone hard enough will lead them to greatness,
Ozymandias isn't Watchmen's villain. It's kind of the point of the franchise - that there are no heroes - but some of the villains are worse than others. The Comedian is pretty terrible because he enjoys inflicting pain. Rorschach is terrible because he has decided his own moral code and is happy to kill anyone who fails to meet his standard. Manhattan is terrible because he will just kill millions because he's told to and he doesn't care. Ozymandias is responsible for events that leave millions of dead - but he weighs a million deaths against untold billions and chooses the path that causes least suffering. In the end, Ozymandias is possibly as close as Watchmen gets to a hero, and Rorschach is the real big bad, because he can't change the millions of deaths, but he does make it meaningless.
And you think murdering millions of people for your own perceived benefit to the greater good isn't creating your own twisted moral code? LMAO. If anything Ozymandias is a much more extreme reflection of the same things that make Rorschach so flawed. Rorschach is at least honest with himself and others, a trait which Ozymandias wholly lacks. Ozymandias is absolutely a villain in the most meaningful sense of the word. Rorschach is an anti-hero, who will cause more harm than good to do the right/honest thing regardless of consequences. If you really want to get philosophical, the story should have you reflecting on what sort of world is worth saving. Is it WORTH saving a world built on lies? The answer is no.
I have never seen Watchmen and I knew that he won. I'm only watching this out of a sense of morbid curiosity at how he could not only be in this countdown in the first place but on the freaking thumbnail *LITERALLY SAYING THE VERY LINE WITH WHICH HE **_EXPLICITLY TELLS US_*
I mean, yeah, Thrór's line died out. But many other descendants of Dúrin lived on, including but not limited to Dáin (not Thorin's successor for nothing), Balin, Dwalin, Óin, Glóin and Gimli. Azog's vow to "wipe out the line of Dúrin" in the movie is an arrogant folly, either by the character or the writers
but ozymandias wining is the whole point of the last part of the movie. "I'm not a comic book villain. Do you seriously think I would explain my master stroke to you if there were even the slightest possibility you could affect the outcome? I triggered it 35 minutes ago" the dude is actually telling us, "this was my plan, i did it, and it worked" we even see the presidential speech for the aftermath of the bombs.
the last three, it was blatantly obvious the villian, on some level, won. sure, not a 'last voyage of the demeter' ish victory, but they definitely did their villian-ing successfully.
It's just a little funny that everyone here saying "Oh yes the journal wouldn't have contained anything, who would believe him?" etc etc haven't read the continuation of the comicbook the movie is based on. In the continuation comic, the journal and it's contents become public knowledge and point to Ozymandias being key to the plot and responsible for the nukes, he becomes a fugitive and then has to go about bringing Doctor Manhattan back. Yes he "won" in the movie, so much as to the effect that we don't get to see what happens next. He didn't win. Not at all.
No 8️⃣ speaking of Big Hero 6, I guess no one else still remembers or talks the subsequent animated series that followed the events of that movie, huh?
After growing up watching Ricardo Montalban on Fantasy Island, and then seeing him as Khan was SUCH an eye opener as a kid. He was amazing in that role. And, if I remember correctly, the reason Khan was after Kirk in the first place was because Kirk was involved in the death of Khan's son. So later, when Kirk's son died, it was a bit more of Khan winning through ' an eye for an eye."
You should watch Star Trek TOS season 1 episode 22 "Space Seed" that was the first appearance of Khan Noonien Singh. It was the death of Khan's wife Enterprise Historian Marla McGivers who died a few years after they were marooned on Ceti Alpha V. She was killed by the same insect like creature used to control Chekov and Captain Terrell.
Manhattan allowed the people to believe he was the bad guy. He was not exiled from earth. He chose to leave. Manhattan is omnipotent and omniscient except for certain points in his timely which he cannot see beyond until hey have actually happened. The worlds smartest man is no more dangerous to him than the world's smartest termite. That's a quote. He literally got bored with humans wand wanted to create his own version of life. Ozzy certainly achieved his goal, but only because Manhattan hadn't fully come to know his power, and because he understood that the truth would undo the only possible good that came out of the tragedy. Later on as Manhattan developed, he was fully capable of literally retconning the whole time line if he wanted to. He literally rewrote the DC Universe more than once.
Other examples: 1) Silence of the Lambs - Hannibal Lecter gets away and goes back on a killing spree. 2) Texas Chainsaw Massacre - While the final girl gets away she is horribly traumatized and never actually defeats the people who abused her. 3) Halloween Kills - Michael gets away after defeating a mobs and killing Laurie's daughter. 4) Batman V Superman - Lex Luthor won. Sure he get's sent to prison but he accomplished his goal in killing Superman. 5) Wolf Creek - Serial killer Mick Taylor just simply wins. He kills his victims and walks away in the sunlight a free man. 6) Primal Fear - Edward Norton's character gets away with murder. 7) The Woman in Black - The ghost ends up getting her intended victim. 8) Unbreakable - Another film where a person does go to prison but achieves their main goal regardless. 9) Funny Games - A film where the two villains do everything they want and then just head off to find more victims. 10) Fallen - A demonic possession film where the villain manages to escape while the hero dies for nothing.
Coin must have been so surprised and Snow knew he would not be living that place alive. It would be like the duke in Dune and the baron except the baron dies after mocking his defeat and telling him about his family.
What a dumb list. If you "didn't realize these villains won" then you weren't paying any attention to the films. Azog in the Hobbit films is an invented character (one among *many* differences from the Hobbit book, but we'll set that aside) but he's very open about his goal to eradicate Thorin's lineage and goes to great lengths to accomplish it. If you missed it you weren't watching very closely. Snow "winning" is a matter of opinion. Same energy as "you can't fire, me I quit!" Katniss wasn't trying to win. The point wasn't about playing the game, or even winning. It was about burning the whole thing to the ground. Something she did both literally when overthrowing Snow in a revolution, and figuratively by killing Coin. See, Katniss realized that Coin's projected facade of wanting a better, free Panem was merely another pleasant falsehood presented for the public to consume, just like it was under Snow. Katniss sees the truth: that Coin is just another dangerous person of power with their own agenda, looking to selfishly capitalize on what a populace wants by pretending she shares their exact ambitions and convictions. Katniss realizes that, though Snow should answer for his atrocities, Coin is set to take his place and become yet another leader who perpetuates the darkest, most self-interested elements of human nature. Replacing Snow with something far worse. So she kills Coin, and leaves Snow to answer for what he's done. She doesn't care about "winning" or "losing". She does the right thing. That's quite literally the point, and y'all missed it. Valentine did accomplish his goal. But the twist was that those who thought they would benefit from his evil actions and would live to see the other side all instead fell victim to it. So he "won" in a sense. But he also lost, along with those who bought into his scheme. Idk how you could have missed that, it wasn't exactly subtle. Ozy straight up tells the protagonists ( and also the audience ) about his victory and how complete it was. He goes to great lengths to elaborate on it. The only people who didn't know he won are the people who didn't watch the film. Straight up. That said, how long his victory lasts is the final question, given the scene at the end with Rorschach's journal. Same with Kahn. He may have died, but he didn't lose. Sensing a theme here...... Idk what's more depressing, this sad excuse for a video or that I actually wasted time watching and responding to it. Be better WhatCulture.
I would add Rick Dekkard on the list. " Blade Runner" main's protagonist is not an hero but a true villain in fact. What does the replicants want ? They dont look for money in a bank, they don't seek power or to trigger a world war. They just want to live more that they were supposed to be. They moslty act in self defense all along the movie. Of course they kill some but hell, they were the ones that made them with a 4 years long span life and they did it on purpose. They got what they sew, nothing else. At the end Roy Batty dies but in a way discovered his own humanity and then his soul. And all Dekkard gets is to have to flee with another replicant, losing his previously life.
having a win like spot 1 on this list is probably one of the greatest ways for a villain to win in my opinion, other then that is Watchmen a movie worth watching? I couldn't get into when I was younger and didn't know if that was the issue
Not only did Ozymandius win, he was a super? See any other masked heroes, apart from Manhattan, catching bullets? One of the very definitions of Superman? The end of The Watchmen is much, much darker than folks realize.
Baron Zemo from Captain America Civil War. He wanted to break up the Avengers and for several years he did. Even getting Iron Man to fight Captain America. Zemo beat the Avengers before Thanos did.
You didn't watch Big hero6. Callahan DOESN'T show regret at Tadashi's death, He din't kill Krei which would have happened and he didn't rescue his daughter, he didn't even know she was alive.
@majorpwner241 Watch the movie and try to pay attention. If Ozymandias had not taken the actions he took, the WHOLE FKN WORLD WOULD HAVE BEEN DESTROYED AND EVEN DR. MANHATTAN WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO STOP IT. That is the only reason Dr. Manhattan or anyone else didn't kill Ozymandias in the end because they knew he was right. The point of the story is how our governments are run by lunatics and criminals wearing suites and ties.
This video should be called "8 More villains that actually won in the most explicit way"... who the hell watch any of these movies and did not realize the "bad guys" won?
Valentine only "won" under the assertion that a meaningfully large amount of people did, in fact, die. The losses are never touched upon so its pure assumption that the death toll was substantial. When stacked against his plan, which was eradication of the considerable majority of earth's population, he fell far short of anything resembling a victory.
Let's assume 2 things. 1: He got his SIM cards to a reasonable majority of human population. Let's say 70%. 2: Anybody near a functioning phone with such SIM card was affected. (Let's say 95% percent of owners of such phones) They were compelled to keep the phone with them and kill as many people as possible. Now, let's tally the kills by situation. We are only going for those that were affected. a) Some people were alone at the time. Be they sleeping, at home, in the wilderness, etc. They would be spared having killed anybody. b) Some would be with people in safe areas without many good weapons. Those would suffer low overall fatality rate. c) Some would be with people in traffic. High traffic situation would have extremely high fatality rate. d) Some people would be at work in dangerous evironment or with dangerous tools. There would be a high fatality rate there. Overall: People that live alone or happen to be alone at the time, as well as anybody who isn't near such functional phone at the time for any reason is safe from direct fatality. From those that aren't people on the streets in big cities, manual laborers, cops, and soldiers suffer massive losses. Then comes the second wave. Suicides from having killed loved ones, and vengeance for loved ones killed by other people. Then comes the third wave. With most active soldiers and probably over half policemen dead, and the world being in panic, crime rate spikes. It is also likely that many production companies lose too many workers to keep operation. The human race would not end. But I'd say a good 40% to 60% would die as a direct or indirect result of this.
No Azog did NOT succeed in destroying the Line of Durin. Dain of the Iron Hills, who was a major part of The Battle of 5 Armies, is also of the line of Durin. On top of that Azog wasn't even a character in The Hobbit. His Son Bolg was and his motivation was revenge against Thorins Specific Family and not The Line of Durin, due to Thorins Kinsman Dain killing Bolgs Father Azog in Khazad Dum. And Finally, it is NOT possible to destroy the Line of Durin since ALL DWARVES claim kinship and descent from Durin. Thats why Durin was known as The Father of all Longbeards.
I still argue that while substituting Dr. Manhattan for a space squid, it would ultimately undermine Ozymandias' plan entirely. His goal was suppose to be to unite humanity against a single foreign enemy. Dr. Manhattan is not a foreign enemy. He is not an unknown enemy. He is a human that was altered by an experiment gone wrong. But if humanity set up the conditions to create him once, they likely can do it again. Ozymandias meant for Manhattan to become the ultimate nuclear deterrent. But having seen what happened after WWII, you would be a fool to think that one country could come up with a weapon, allow it to obliterate 15 million people and the rest of the nations of the world wouldn't suddenly make it a priority to develop the technology to have their own Dr. Manhattans as a countermeasure.
Alien mother in Aliens, as we know it infected everyone apart from Ripley? Titanic - The iceberg won :D Oldboy - I don't want to spoil the ending, eeewww The Dark Knight - Joker lives (RIP Heath), and Batman flees Avengers Endgame - I still think Thanos was right. Chinatown - Huston gets to take his daughter/granddaughter, second eeewww The Thing - The alien did survive and drank the petrol. Rocky - He didn't actually win the fight, and Creed kept the title. Gladiator - He may well get killed but Joaquin did kill Russell. Raiders Of The Lost Ark - The government hushed up proof of Christ being real. Jaws - The shark was just doing what sharks do, then humans come and kill it :))))))
#2 just doesn't belong on the list called "didn't realise actually won". It belong on a list called "everyone knew they won, unless they didn't watch the movie."
Definitely more than a few years in jail. The reason why Callahan loses is cause the heroes offered help and would have been able to find his daughter. Now his daughter is free but he's stuck behind bars.
Durin's line though was not cut off by Azog the Defiler in the Hobbit series however as Thorin was succeeded as King Under The Mountain by his cousin Dain (who also appears in the Battle of Five Armies) and the line continues on into the Fourth Age. So Azog actually failed again.
The worst part of the Khan movie was Kirk dismissing Saavik's warning about dropping shield when approaching Kahn's stolen ship, and Spock agreeing with Kirk and admonishing her. She was correct logically AND procedurally. These uncharacteristically idiotic decisions ruined the movie for me. It's the old adage that "nothing would happen in a movie unless the characters do something stupid"
About Ozymandias, yes, he won but it was a temporary victory at best. When the character showed up in the DC Universe he thought of his plan as a failure since he wanted to create lasting peace and that peace crumbled in a shockingly short time. Thus why he is trying to form a new plan using a different universe.
![Chlöe - Shake (Feat. Jeremih) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aDs_1ufpfv8/mqdefault.jpg)
The only people who didn't know that Ozymandias won were the people who didn't watch the movie. His victory is pretty well known. He literally won 35 minutes before he explained his plan to the protagonists and went out of his way to tell them just that. Everything he set out to do happened and everybody knew this.
I came here to leave the same comment.
The movie does kind of imply that Rorschach left behind contingencies to make sure Ozy didn’t get away with it. Meaning Ozy wouldn’t have won.
This video details how unlikely it is that Rorschach’s plans would lead to very much.
That said, I was on the same page as y’all.
Actually, the true winner of watchmen is ambiguous. Before veidt did what he did, Rorschach sent a journal revealing Veidts actions to a news press. The ending shows someone looking into a stash containing the journal for new info for the paper but it is not known whether the journal got published or not.
Same wavelength, bud. As others, I came to leave the exact same comment.
@@daniellewis4154 Additionally, Rorschach's journal is detailed. It's not just deranged ramblings or wild finger-pointing. It's a complete write-up of everything that happened from the start of his investigation (since it's quite literally the narration of the comic/movie). It's so thorough that any 2-bit detective could follow the clues and figure out everything the same as Rorschach did.
Ozymandias might have won in the short term, but how long that lasts is very much up in the air.
I'm sorry, who exactly didn't realize that Ozymandias won?
Only people who had never seen the movie.
Same with Big Hero 6 Callahan
Idiots. Idiots didn't realize Ozymandias won
Nobody. They always throw an obvious or controversial one into these lists to get people to rage in the comments because it boosts engagement and that makes the algorithm gods happy.
You had me at “I did it 35min ago.”
Oh, and the killer in Se7en. He totally won
That would have been a good addition
I feel like it was fairly clear that the killer won.
@@justinhall3469no it wouldn’t have lol the video is movie villains you DIDN’T know had won. The whole point of Se7en’s ending is that he won, same for Watchmen but they put it on here anyways for some dumb reason.
I can't agree that the villain in Se7en won. He killed an unborn child that was bearing no sin. So he made a mistake when he killed the detectives wife. And he only did this to piss off the detective, nothing else. He made his own killing series pointless.
@@4Astaroth You’re misinterpreting the movie and his plan.
He’s completed Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Lust, and Pride before he is arrested.
John Doe kills Mill’s wife and child out of Envy. Mills’ kills Doe, completing Wrath.
The person committing the sin does not need to die. But there’s a killing for each sin. Killing an extra person does not invalidate his successful plan, as they both died for Envy. John Doe got everything he wanted.
Strange to see no one came to say that Snow did not trick Katniss. In the book Primrose dies in an explosion designed by Gale, which was meant as a trap for Capital soldiers, but was bastardized by the Rebel leader to kill their own forces to gain sympathy for the rebels by pinning it on Snow. Katniss knows this because Gale had previously demonstrated the bombs to her. The "talk" is Snow letting Katniss know that the new leaders are the same. Katniss takes revenge on her sister and shows both sides that she knows what is right and wrong, rejecting the current leader of the Rebels and cementing herself as non choice for leading. She is left alive as she has gained to much fame and is pretty much untouchable. However, exiled she is left as a reminder to Panam if things go corrupt again she is there to set things right, so in a way, while she is racked with survives guilt and PTSD, Katniss own existence is the biggest deterrent and best victory.
TL:DR Katniss won her own way, playing by her own rules.
And Snow's primary goal wasn't about Coin and Katniss it was about the permanent supression of the districts to preserve the wealth and privilege of the Capitol.
This exactly. Coin had no plans to relinquish the presidency for the official election as was supposed to happen. Coin would have just become another Snow and the cycle would have began anew. And Katniss realized that she was the only one that could stop the cycle
A poetic end to an honorable person forced by government officials to commit war crimes and propaganda campaigns.
Snow won. A true gigachad. 😎
What happens in the book does not happen in the film. It's not the same story. Snow was likely telling the truth, but it's not certain. Did he fooled her? We don't know for sure. Either way, Snow was the one who persuaded Katniss to kill the rebel leader, his final power play. He was the one who put revenge into her heart, he was the one who opened her eyes to what Coin would become.
Except Azog didn't end the line of Durin, just Thorin's, who apparently never had children anyway. In fact one of Dain Ironfoot's children became King Under the Mountain after him, and eventually became an ancestor of Durin VII. Also GIMLI was of the male bloodline of Durin. C'mon, now.
They ignored alot to put that bad movie on the list
I'd been of the impression Azzog's thing was ending Thorrin's bloodline, not durin's. In the aftermath of Thorrin beating him in a fight. If that is the case, then Azzog did actually complete his objective. But I don't really feel like doing the rewatching necessary to actually know for sure what Azzog's exact vendetta statement was
@@edschramm6757Two things: Azog. One 'z'. Also, they actually say, in the video above, at 1:35, "Orc war chief Azog the Defiler's plan was to wipe out the male bloodline of Durin by killing Thorin Oakenshield and his nephews Fili and Kili." I was simply pointing out that, while he did kill those three, it wouldn't (and didn't) wipe out the male line of Durin. But I'm sure we all appreciate you adding nothing but your own misinfo to the conversation. Cheers.
@@Rheubie they do state that in the video, but I'm not sure how accurate their statement within the video was is my thing. It's possible they got it right, but there have been instances before where stuff in videos doesn't hold up flawlessly when looked at closely. If I'm wrong, fine, but their accuracy in the past has left something to be desired. Though come to think of it, it explains why he attacked the dwarves in the flashback, beyond "we want that place".
@edschramm6757 in reality it's just a personal vendetta against thorin. He doesn't care at all about fili and kili and it's not like he has time to realize and celebrate his "success," so that's already weird to put on the list. Not to mention, there are a hundred comments about the other films and how they shouldn't be on the list either.
I'm always shocked that Maleficent isn't on lists like this. She wants to hurt the king and queen, and she manages to force them into missing their daughter's entire childhood. By the time she returns, she's in love and off to be married. She technically knows they are her parents, but she'll almost certainly never have a normal parent child relationship with them. She destroyed that family for years, and though they might have a future, it will forever be marred by the taint of that time apart. She didn't care about killing Aurora, she cared about the King and Queen suffering emotionally. She 100% got that for at least 16 years, and likely many years to come.
With the exception of Freddy's Dead, didn't Freddy Krueger win at the end of every movie in the original Nightmare on Elm Street series? He's momentarily defeated but then there's always the last scene jump-scare where it turns out he's still invading dreams and killing people.
One of the reasons why I always preferred Friday the 13th's Jason over Freddy growing up. At least that series had final girls. With Freddy there was no hope.
I always felt the instructor won in Whiplash and didn't realize people thought otherwise. The film established how the drummer was at his best when under pressure and not knowing the music or customs. The plot to get him on a stage with an unfamiliar song was sheer brilliance to force him into his best work. It might not have been right, but he played him well.
It is and it is such a core part of the plot it is ridiculous to think that people 'didn't realize'. It is also quite a common plot in movies that show a teacher and a student, where the lesson to be learned in the end is for the student to somehow defeat the master.
Azog doesn't wipe out the line of Durin in the Hobbit film. Dain is Thorin's cousin and is also of the line of Durin, several others in the party like Balin are also (more distantly) related to him, and of that line as well.
Well to fair the film doesn't follow the lore, as Azog died on the steps of Moria and his son carried on.
Dain is the one who killed him there
Gimli too.
Yes but not the direct descendants in line to take the throne
Narrators logic, sent to kill multiple dwarves in a bloodline only kills one. Villain win? Durp durp 🦭
@aidangriffiths5075 wrong! Females can be direct descendants. The dwarves recognize that true, the orcs recognized that as true, and especially author did. So kinda makes you a fake fan!
The Joker ultimately won when Two-Face went on his rampage in The Dark Knight and was further proven correct by the actions of Gotham’s citizens while under Bane’s occupation in The Dark Knight Rises.
No, he didn't win. His ultimate goal was to plunge Gotham into chaos which didn't happen. The people on the boats refused to kill each other too, preventing themselves from becoming murderers. Batman took the blame so Gotham could retain hope, which is what Joker didn't want. He didn't win.
@@whosaidthat84 Joker absolutely won. He proved to Batman that the White Knight of Gotham was corruptible, even if Batman wasn't. The fact the people on the boat didn't kill each other is meaningless with this greater victory in mind. It's a pretty old concept in terms of Batman comics, read The Killing Joke.
Joker simply wants to show everyone that they're one bad day away from being him, which is exactly what he achieved with Harvey. He tells Batman that he brought Harvey down to their level and literally has the last laugh.
Batman taking the blame doesn't nullify that victory, in fact it's the opposite.
@@SamADTR meaningless? Bro, i get you're a Joker fan but that boat incident is a huge L for Joker. The greater victory is that Gotham still has hope. Gotham still believes. They didn't descend into chaos. Even when Gordon says "Then Joker has won," Bruce cuts him off and says "No, I killed those people." How did Joker win? He brought Harvey down but he's just one person, which we all knew was gonna happen because we all know who Two Face is. Even in Rises, the Dent Act brought peace to Gotham which meant they didn't need Batman for 8 years. So how did Joker win?
@@whosaidthat84 you think the necessity for the cover up doesn’t automatically imply Joker’s victory?
They might have gotten 8 years of peace from it but he still won.
He corrupted the seemingly incorruptible. He got all of the criminals out of prison through that process. He won.
The boat was a loss for coincidental, plot armour reasons but he literally has the last laugh as he tells Batman it doesn’t even matter because he brought Gotham’s white knight down to their level.
“Did you really think I would gamble the battle for Gotham’s soul in a fist fight with you?”
@@SamADTR the lie was about Batman's sacrifice. And yes, 8 years peace nullifies any victory he may have had. Gotham never became a cesspool of chaos. Isn't that what Joker wanted all along?
Why were people under the impression that Rorschach’s journal would have doomed the world to nuclear Armageddon? The only thing that Rorschach knew at the point when he dropped the journal into the drop box of the tabloid was that Ozymandias was responsible for the death of The Comedian, the cancer of the people who worked under him and other incidents that led to Rorschach’s arrest. He didn’t know the full extent of Veidt’s plan until he explained it to him 35 minutes after he activated his device. No one would have been able to trace it back to Veidt, given his intelligence he didn’t leave enough of a trail to follow.
Rorschach would have easily speculated... nobody says that nuclear superpowers are going to immediately start WWIII but that the false peace would collapse without the unifying threat sublimating competing interests. So the plan DID fail as the return to the Status Quo would be the end result instead of a worldwide unification.
technically, it kind of did. In the dc comics its explained that when rorsach's journal got published, it made people realize what happened, and anarchy reigned, with nukes flying all over the world
@@blitzthecrimson3207 How!? Rorschach’s journal only covers up to the point that they’re about to go to Antarctica. It says nothing about the complete extent of Veidt’s plan or how much destruction he causes and Dr. Manhattan kills Rorschach before he can even tell anyone else. Also, Ewan from What Culture stated it, Rorschach put his journal in the drop box of a tabloid, which is only in the business of selling interesting stories to the public, whether they’re true or not is irrelevant to them.
Escaping prosecution isn't winning. The stated plan to bring humanity together by faking an existential threat was never going to actually work.
"The Watchmen" HBO series does a way better job expanding on this than the DC comics did and a good example of adapted material being better than the written material.
Sorry, about Durin's bloodline!
Thorin, son of Thrain, son of Thrór were the ruling line. Thrór's brother was Grór (Thorin great uncle) and his line were all descended from Durin to!
Even Gimili was a bloodline descendant!
Wiping out Durin's bloodline would be like wiping out the O'Brien bloodline in Ireland. Kinda too late for that one
@@redjoker365 Is that name Scottish too? I think that was my Grandma's maiden last name.
@@liahfox5840you see how far they have spread
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 🤣
Who doesn't understand that Ozzymandias fullfilled his quest successfully? That one is quite a bit of a stretch, as far as the topic goes. And when there are some other good examples out there. For example, what about Helmut Zemo from Avengers: Civil War? He gets arrested in the end and faces life in prison, so all's well that ends well, but his goal was to break down the Avengers - which he absolutely did.
Not a stretch just blatantly wrong and probably only included for the thumbnail.
To be fair, Khan saved Earth. He created a situation that caused Kirk to be away from Earth when the probe arrived and neutralized Starfleet.
Wouldn't have been the klingons who saved earth by crippling the enterprise and causing its self destruction?
@@Jfriedman420 Except Khan created the conditions that put the Klingons there in the first place.
True. Khan drove the plot of Star Trek II, III, IV, and VI.
@@nrais76shit you could say he drove the entire plot of star trek when his war on earth resulted in a new stone age leading to first contact, meanwhile the borg make the rest of the events happen, in the end its only two entities that push the entire narrative
An unintentional consequence of Khans lust to kill Kirk. Khan did not save Earth, but you could say that he helped keep Kirk in play to save earth, but then again maybe Kirk would have been on some other adventure, some other mission or some other event would have kept Kirk away from Earth when the probe initially arrived. Saying Khan saved earth is like saying Star Fleet saved earth because it promoted Kirk, or allowed him to be on the Enterprise for a training mission, which is actually more of the reason why Kirk actually was in the position he was in with Khan to eventually save Earth.
Hmm you're right about Freddy Krueger. He did achieve his goal, the complete eradication of the children of the people who banded together and killed him when the courts failed to punish Freddy due to a legal technicality.
I completely forgot that Nancy died in part 3. SMH
I'd argue Watchmen for the Number 1 Spot, as since he did his plan half an hour before the heroes even showed up, there was no real way to stop him.
They're implying the audience doesnt know the villian won. 99% of the audience knew he won before the charectors. So it shouldnt be on this list at all.
I loved that part. Most villains tell their evil plan and the heros have the time to stop it, but he actually already set it in motion and then was just, playing around. By the time they realized it was too late. And the journal would only have his doubts and info, not the final facts. And indeed, who would believe his ravings vs a known and respected hero turned clean businessman?
Callahan did not show regret for Tadashi. His response when confronted on the matter was that it was Tadashi’s fault he went into the fire. Also, it’s a stretch to say he rescued his daughter. He had given up on ever finding her.
It was an interesting case of good guys and bad guy both winning. As soon as his daughter was saved, Callahan lost all reason to be evil.
The same can be said about the people who killed his daughter
Though I've not watched it myself, I've heard that in the series, he does show some regret for his actions when Hiro has to visit him in prison.
As meme-ified by Schaffrillas, “THAT WAS HIS MISTAKE”
@@shareefhaddad2377As soon as he realizes that his daughter was still alive he lost all reason to be evil.
A big one for me is captain America civil war, zemo did go to jail yes and no average died but he still did real damage. He sparked a conflict between them all that created real lasting damage that it took them years to get past. Also more than that it he saw to it that the avengers knew who his family were and felt really regret for what had happened.
Though given the implications of the movie, personally, I don't think he was the main villain of the movie (or even politically Russian, for that matter).
You had a person able to suspiciously easily manipulate UN officials, able to turn the public against a private organisation that was previously gaining more financial and political backing than the USA itself, creating conflict in the group itself. Eliminate the leader of a nation, stockpiling the most durable substance on earth leaving everthing to someone much younger. Ultimately, the Avengers gave up their independence to the state, and all he got was seeing Cap and Ironman fighting.
@@roax206 that's an interesting way of looking at it there, I don't know if I agree but I do think you have a point
How could you forget Thanos? Technically, he won....it took the Avengers having to travel thru time to reverse everything he did, but he accomplished what he set out to do and won when you think about it.
Thanos was narrow-minded. 50% of a population is solved in a generation. 75% doubles the efficiency at half the extra cost
Changing fertility rates would have been the true answer
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 what are u talking about? I'm not here arguing whether his goal was correct or flawed, that's a whole other topic. All I stated is that he succeeded in his goal of reducing the population of the universe in half.
@@vicmo25 I'm not arguing about that either, just adding my two cents
Did not watch the movie, but from what I got, his goal was reducing the overpopulation and exhaustion of natural resources throughout the galaxy.
Reducing all populations by half was the means by which he wanted to achieve it
But like I said, I did not watch it yet, so I could be wrong here
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 His OG goal is killing half the galaxy to flirt with "Death" so...i think that other reason is good enough lol
Its pretty dumb of thanos if the natural resource being exhausted is his reason for wiping the population to half.
Cause if so why not just make the resources regenerate or something to that degree.
But killing people just to control the consumption of resources is really idiotic cause in time those same resources will still be exhausted.
The Underminer from the Incredibles 2 won. He went to rob the bank and he got away with the money. He wasn’t the main villain but a win is a win.
Kevin Spacey's character in Se7en, he got what he wanted, "what's in the box what's in the box!"
I actually like The Hobbit movies, I watch the extended editions before Lord of the Rings extended editions and tend to wonder if the haters are even judging the extended editions or only the theatrical versions
Anyone that lives on Elm Street should just move, or at least nap Elsweyr, problem solved lol 😝
Many fans consider Khan Star Trek's biggest villian, appearing in Space Seed & Wrath of Khan, but the true biggest villains are NBC as that bit on SNL with John Belushi would tell you 😁
The Hobbit films were okay, in fact if they weren't called 'The Hobbit' and used Tolkien Characters I would say they were excellent.
The problem is that the book was short enough it should have been only one movie, or at most two, the padding is what raises ire.
I guess only fans of the book hate the movie, but what of the average movie goer that didn't read the book 🤔
@@frednone I actually read Hobbit before LoTR, and found the book lacking... reading it as a kid, it had far less action and epic battles even for a children's story (compare to something like Narnia or Arthurian legends, even the Oz stories). But the movie trilogy was just one big fanservice for me! LOVED THEM!
Also, understand that Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age-sized epicness NEVER GETS THE BUDGET ON THE BIG SCREEN. So the reality is if it wasn't called Hobbit, it just wouldn't exist. Fantasy doesn't get big bucks, only Peter Jackson did. They can't even adapt most of Discworld!.. Any epic fantasy ends up being either videogame-based-trash, schlocky B-movies, or Tolkien.
Keyzer Soze walking out of the police station in The Usual Suspects, is one of the greatest of all time.
In the King movie, he even causes more deaths after the sound is turn off by suicide & even more murder. For example, the woman who stopped b4 killing her baby, means that there are parents, grandparents, babysitters, aunts/uncles, caretakers, etc who murdered a lot of kids & because of the guilt they committed suicide or even some go crazy & go on a murder spree. This even applies to ones who didn't kill kids, they commit suicide or go on a murder spree because they awaken to actually liking it, which brings the global population down even more.
I can't remember if you featured Silva from "Skyfall" but he certainly deserves to be on the list!
He wanted M to "pay for her sins" and since Judi Dench's portrayal was killed off, that means he ultimately won!
Also, until the "Home Al007ne" scene at the end, he was pretty much one step ahead of everybody at MI6!
nailed it. One of the best Bond villains ever , best one from the Daniel Craig era
His plan required him to be captured and for some of the best spies in the world to be so stupid as to plug a computer into an open network.
And for the same actor, Anton Chigur (something) definitely win at the end of no country for old men.
I don't think we were even meant to think that Khan didn't cause a huge mess even in defeat. One of the things that makes Wrath of Khan great is that it really shows the lasting effects of battle; events in that movie carried over and affected all subsequent films in a way that no other ST film did. And even within the film, you see the tragedy of war, what with stuff like Scott's nephew being killed. The whole point of the movie is that Kirk *barely* won - and he did win, because Khan surely did want to kill Kirk *after* hurting him. But Kirk won at a huge cost, and a lot of that cost was due to his own mistakes.
Exactly the entire point of the movie. To show that victory is seldom squeaky clean
I love how in the first few seconds of this clip they showed the hunger games and the fact nobody knows how to use a bow. Her nose would be stripped off lol
4:10 i don't think Snow fooled Katniss in the slightest.
I think he was always honest with her; that was part of their relationship.
I think her training within The Game kicked in, _"Remember Who The Real Enemy Is..."_
I think Katniss knew she would have to do it when she agreed to the new game, and only agreed so Coin would trust her enough to give her the opportunity.
If Coin hadn't trusted Katniss she could have (she probably should have) ordered a force shield for personal protection~ they had the technology.
"Less than necessary hobbit trilogy" damn dude went straight for the balls, sunk his teeth in, and shook his head.
It’s true though. Should just have been one movie
@@johnwerner69 and where would we get epic orc and elf battles then, just MMOs? It was very obvious ONLY the Hobbit would get funding for making a fantasy epic (which the book is not), and they ran with it. As someone who was missing action in the Hobbit original story, I liked that movies improved on that.
4:15 No, just no. That's not what happened. She was a monster just like him. Snow simply pointed that out and laughed because she had victory ripped from her arms at the last second. Both of them lost.
The entire first failed rebellion, which mind you is the reason for the Hunger Games, started because she lost an election against him in the books and wanted power for herself, she never cared for those under her and were just using all of them like pawns, Snow points this out and Katniss decides to try to end the cycle. Which she ultimately fails to do so as the council decides to continue the Hunger Games.
People didn’t realize these victories? They all seem very apparent
I'm not sure i count president snow as having won. The closest id get is if you consider his conflict with Coin, then sure, he outlasts her (probably only by about 30 seconds, but still). But it felt less like that was his goal, and more like when he realized he was doomed, he had the respect for Katniss to at least let her know what kind of person Coin was.
Who did not realize that Ozymandias won? 😂
Also, is Ozymadias actually a villain?
@@ssvensic yes.
@ssvensic his motivations were noble, to avoid World War 3 at the cost of tens of millions instead of billions.
@@ssvensicOzy believed himself to be a god and that he could shape men's hearts, there was no guarantee that his plan would work or that long term World War 3 still wouldn't happen. He killed millions based on a hypothetical.
I love when the villain wins. It's more realistic and usually the villain has more going for him and likely would win.
8. Callahan is responsible for felony murder--he caused the death of Hiro's brother in the commision of another felony--arson. Also, lots of attempted murder. That's more than a few years behind bars, and he doesn't get to spend them with his daughter.
Actually, Callaghan committed manslaughter. He didn’t intend for tadashi to be killed in the fire as tadashi made the decision to go into the fire that killed him in a misguided attempt to save Callaghan
If you kill someone (or someone dies) in the commission of a crime (like arson) it becomes at BEST second-degree murder.@@daniellewis4154
Yeah but even if he doesn't get to spend much time with hisdaughter he does get to live knowing that she is actually alive and is going to be well, wich is more than he had before he started his plan.
Predestination- 2 interpretations
1. The protagonist and antagonist are the same, Jane, John and the Fizzy Bomber. In this regard, the Fizzy Bomber’s bombings simply to interact with other aspects of himself throughout time are successful. He missed them dreadfully.
2. Robertson, the head of the Temporal Agency is the ultimate villain, as he was the person who set everything in motion. If there could ever be a moment considered zero point, where there hasn’t yet been a paradoxical loop of time, it would be Robertson’s actions that start it. Sometime after the discovery of time travel, he discovered a perfectly intersexual being and put this being on course to meet themselves several times, culminating in them giving birth to themselves. In fact, knowing that time travel has debilitating effects on the psyche of agents, he set this experiment in motion. The pain of Jane and John’s lives, the losses caused by the Fizzy Bomber and much more can be laid at the feet of Robertson and he was absolutely successful in his efforts.
The bad guy from Skyfall
That’s clear as day.
How exactly is Snow the villain who won? Its made abundantly clear that he lost, and if you claim her killing Coin meant he won, not really, it was painted pretty clearly in both book and film she was a villain too, and the bigger threat. He also died minutes after her so really not a win for Snow.
Yeah his scene in the film with Katniss in his greenhouse he basically says he should have paid more attention to Coin. Also basically telling Katniss she’s just as bad or worse than him.
I'd argue that while Snow is very much the villain for the most part, once Coin enters the story is fairly obvious that she's is hands down much worse than Snow.
And for what it's worth, if we want to pick a place when Snow won, it'll be back when he and Katniss promise not to lie to each other. Coin on the other hand was mostly lies and deceit.
whiplash they both kinda won,
charlie got to be one of the greats, somebody that will be talked about at dinner tables even after death,
and fletcher got proof that pushing someone hard enough will lead them to greatness,
lmao @ the girl putting her nose inside the bow string right at the beginning. Real smart...
I was assuming Ozymandias was a clickbait image but naw you actually put him on the list? Views a view I suppose.
Ozymandias isn't Watchmen's villain. It's kind of the point of the franchise - that there are no heroes - but some of the villains are worse than others. The Comedian is pretty terrible because he enjoys inflicting pain. Rorschach is terrible because he has decided his own moral code and is happy to kill anyone who fails to meet his standard. Manhattan is terrible because he will just kill millions because he's told to and he doesn't care. Ozymandias is responsible for events that leave millions of dead - but he weighs a million deaths against untold billions and chooses the path that causes least suffering.
In the end, Ozymandias is possibly as close as Watchmen gets to a hero, and Rorschach is the real big bad, because he can't change the millions of deaths, but he does make it meaningless.
And you think murdering millions of people for your own perceived benefit to the greater good isn't creating your own twisted moral code? LMAO. If anything Ozymandias is a much more extreme reflection of the same things that make Rorschach so flawed. Rorschach is at least honest with himself and others, a trait which Ozymandias wholly lacks. Ozymandias is absolutely a villain in the most meaningful sense of the word. Rorschach is an anti-hero, who will cause more harm than good to do the right/honest thing regardless of consequences.
If you really want to get philosophical, the story should have you reflecting on what sort of world is worth saving. Is it WORTH saving a world built on lies? The answer is no.
To be fair, its not entirely truthful to say Tadashi is dead. The movie isn't 100% clear that hes dead and with the comics he's definitely NOT dead.
I have never seen Watchmen and I knew that he won. I'm only watching this out of a sense of morbid curiosity at how he could not only be in this countdown in the first place but on the freaking thumbnail *LITERALLY SAYING THE VERY LINE WITH WHICH HE **_EXPLICITLY TELLS US_*
It’s okay to use the word “clear” without “abundantly” before it.
Big Hero 6: A few years in jail? That man is going in for life!
I mean, yeah, Thrór's line died out. But many other descendants of Dúrin lived on, including but not limited to Dáin (not Thorin's successor for nothing), Balin, Dwalin, Óin, Glóin and Gimli. Azog's vow to "wipe out the line of Dúrin" in the movie is an arrogant folly, either by the character or the writers
Whiplash had the most epic villain winning scene in cinema.
but ozymandias wining is the whole point of the last part of the movie. "I'm not a comic book villain. Do you seriously think I would explain my master stroke to you if there were even the slightest possibility you could affect the outcome? I triggered it 35 minutes ago" the dude is actually telling us, "this was my plan, i did it, and it worked" we even see the presidential speech for the aftermath of the bombs.
Isn't there a cannon sequal to Watchmen? Where ozy is revealed and reviled
A thumbnail with Matthew Goode?
You SOB, I’m in 😊
The alien in the Thing wins if you subscribe to the idea that Childs is an alien at the end.
Should do longest breaks between true sequels
the last three, it was blatantly obvious the villian, on some level, won.
sure, not a 'last voyage of the demeter' ish victory, but they definitely did their villian-ing successfully.
The people who didn't realize Ozymandias won are the same ppl too dense to realize Liam Neeson was always Ras Al Ghul in the Dark Knight Trilogy
It's just a little funny that everyone here saying "Oh yes the journal wouldn't have contained anything, who would believe him?" etc etc haven't read the continuation of the comicbook the movie is based on. In the continuation comic, the journal and it's contents become public knowledge and point to Ozymandias being key to the plot and responsible for the nukes, he becomes a fugitive and then has to go about bringing Doctor Manhattan back. Yes he "won" in the movie, so much as to the effect that we don't get to see what happens next. He didn't win. Not at all.
In Big Hero 6 the villain would be charged with multiple counts of attempted murder, A few years my ass
The title of this video is horribly wrong.. it should say “the most obvious villains in shows”
No 8️⃣ speaking of Big Hero 6, I guess no one else still remembers or talks the subsequent animated series that followed the events of that movie, huh?
Nice list solid pts and well presented
I was waiting to see Kevin Spacey from Seven.
After growing up watching Ricardo Montalban on Fantasy Island, and then seeing him as Khan was SUCH an eye opener as a kid. He was amazing in that role. And, if I remember correctly, the reason Khan was after Kirk in the first place was because Kirk was involved in the death of Khan's son. So later, when Kirk's son died, it was a bit more of Khan winning through ' an eye for an eye."
You should watch Star Trek TOS season 1 episode 22 "Space Seed" that was the first appearance of Khan Noonien Singh.
It was the death of Khan's wife Enterprise Historian Marla McGivers who died a few years after they were marooned on Ceti Alpha V. She was killed by the same insect like creature used to control Chekov and Captain Terrell.
Manhattan allowed the people to believe he was the bad guy. He was not exiled from earth. He chose to leave. Manhattan is omnipotent and omniscient except for certain points in his timely which he cannot see beyond until hey have actually happened. The worlds smartest man is no more dangerous to him than the world's smartest termite. That's a quote. He literally got bored with humans wand wanted to create his own version of life. Ozzy certainly achieved his goal, but only because Manhattan hadn't fully come to know his power, and because he understood that the truth would undo the only possible good that came out of the tragedy. Later on as Manhattan developed, he was fully capable of literally retconning the whole time line if he wanted to. He literally rewrote the DC Universe more than once.
Other examples:
1) Silence of the Lambs - Hannibal Lecter gets away and goes back on a killing spree.
2) Texas Chainsaw Massacre - While the final girl gets away she is horribly traumatized and never actually defeats the people who abused her.
3) Halloween Kills - Michael gets away after defeating a mobs and killing Laurie's daughter.
4) Batman V Superman - Lex Luthor won. Sure he get's sent to prison but he accomplished his goal in killing Superman.
5) Wolf Creek - Serial killer Mick Taylor just simply wins. He kills his victims and walks away in the sunlight a free man.
6) Primal Fear - Edward Norton's character gets away with murder.
7) The Woman in Black - The ghost ends up getting her intended victim.
8) Unbreakable - Another film where a person does go to prison but achieves their main goal regardless.
9) Funny Games - A film where the two villains do everything they want and then just head off to find more victims.
10) Fallen - A demonic possession film where the villain manages to escape while the hero dies for nothing.
Fallen and Unbreakable are such great films too.
Lol half of these are obvious, the list is called “you didnt realise won”, not “is blindly obvious”
@@jamespaul6315 True, but WhatCulture did include Ozymandias for some reason, so it wouldn't be unprecedented.
@@jamespaul6315 Ok, congrats... lol. They still pretty much fit and things aren't obvious to everyone.
@@StephenLeGresley lol if you dont think some of these things are obvious, you need to be checked for a brain
Azog didn't succeed becouse Dain who is alive at the end of the battle of the five armies, and is also Thorin's cousin and Dain actually becomes king.
Ozymandias is one of the best written and best acted villains of all time. He’s really the guy who knew to save the world they have to hate you for it
Coin must have been so surprised and Snow knew he would not be living that place alive. It would be like the duke in Dune and the baron except the baron dies after mocking his defeat and telling him about his family.
What a dumb list. If you "didn't realize these villains won" then you weren't paying any attention to the films.
Azog in the Hobbit films is an invented character (one among *many* differences from the Hobbit book, but we'll set that aside) but he's very open about his goal to eradicate Thorin's lineage and goes to great lengths to accomplish it. If you missed it you weren't watching very closely.
Snow "winning" is a matter of opinion. Same energy as "you can't fire, me I quit!" Katniss wasn't trying to win. The point wasn't about playing the game, or even winning. It was about burning the whole thing to the ground. Something she did both literally when overthrowing Snow in a revolution, and figuratively by killing Coin. See, Katniss realized that Coin's projected facade of wanting a better, free Panem was merely another pleasant falsehood presented for the public to consume, just like it was under Snow. Katniss sees the truth: that Coin is just another dangerous person of power with their own agenda, looking to selfishly capitalize on what a populace wants by pretending she shares their exact ambitions and convictions. Katniss realizes that, though Snow should answer for his atrocities, Coin is set to take his place and become yet another leader who perpetuates the darkest, most self-interested elements of human nature. Replacing Snow with something far worse. So she kills Coin, and leaves Snow to answer for what he's done. She doesn't care about "winning" or "losing". She does the right thing. That's quite literally the point, and y'all missed it.
Valentine did accomplish his goal. But the twist was that those who thought they would benefit from his evil actions and would live to see the other side all instead fell victim to it. So he "won" in a sense. But he also lost, along with those who bought into his scheme. Idk how you could have missed that, it wasn't exactly subtle.
Ozy straight up tells the protagonists ( and also the audience ) about his victory and how complete it was. He goes to great lengths to elaborate on it. The only people who didn't know he won are the people who didn't watch the film. Straight up. That said, how long his victory lasts is the final question, given the scene at the end with Rorschach's journal.
Same with Kahn. He may have died, but he didn't lose. Sensing a theme here......
Idk what's more depressing, this sad excuse for a video or that I actually wasted time watching and responding to it.
Be better WhatCulture.
I agree with #1. This was awesome!
I would add Rick Dekkard on the list. " Blade Runner" main's protagonist is not an hero but a true villain in fact. What does the replicants want ? They dont look for money in a bank, they don't seek power or to trigger a world war. They just want to live more that they were supposed to be. They moslty act in self defense all along the movie. Of course they kill some but hell, they were the ones that made them with a 4 years long span life and they did it on purpose. They got what they sew, nothing else. At the end Roy Batty dies but in a way discovered his own humanity and then his soul. And all Dekkard gets is to have to flee with another replicant, losing his previously life.
having a win like spot 1 on this list is probably one of the greatest ways for a villain to win in my opinion, other then that is Watchmen a movie worth watching? I couldn't get into when I was younger and didn't know if that was the issue
Freddy Krueger: u are mine in this Dream hahaha...
My Lucid Dreaming Friend: boddy u are fucked 😂😂
Not only did Ozymandius win, he was a super? See any other masked heroes, apart from Manhattan, catching bullets? One of the very definitions of Superman? The end of The Watchmen is much, much darker than folks realize.
Baron Zemo from Captain America Civil War. He wanted to break up the Avengers and for several years he did. Even getting Iron Man to fight Captain America. Zemo beat the Avengers before Thanos did.
Thanos.
No one forgets his impact
You didn't watch Big hero6. Callahan DOESN'T show regret at Tadashi's death, He din't kill Krei which would have happened and he didn't rescue his daughter, he didn't even know she was alive.
Ozymandias wasn't the "villian"... He literally saves to planet from the worlds supower governments who are the real villains in the story.
Killing millions of people doesn't make you a villain now. Glad I have youtube comments to educate me on such things!
@majorpwner241 Watch the movie and try to pay attention. If Ozymandias had not taken the actions he took, the WHOLE FKN WORLD WOULD HAVE BEEN DESTROYED AND EVEN DR. MANHATTAN WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO STOP IT. That is the only reason Dr. Manhattan or anyone else didn't kill Ozymandias in the end because they knew he was right. The point of the story is how our governments are run by lunatics and criminals wearing suites and ties.
I'd say Law Abiding Citizen is one movie where the bad guy won.
Calahan didnt win he didn’t get revenge he destroyed one building that was owned by a rich person
Robert wasn’t a villain. He was a pissed off father who wanted his daughter back. Lose a child and then call him a villain.
This video should be called "8 More villains that actually won in the most explicit way"... who the hell watch any of these movies and did not realize the "bad guys" won?
Valentine only "won" under the assertion that a meaningfully large amount of people did, in fact, die. The losses are never touched upon so its pure assumption that the death toll was substantial.
When stacked against his plan, which was eradication of the considerable majority of earth's population, he fell far short of anything resembling a victory.
Let's assume 2 things.
1: He got his SIM cards to a reasonable majority of human population. Let's say 70%.
2: Anybody near a functioning phone with such SIM card was affected. (Let's say 95% percent of owners of such phones) They were compelled to keep the phone with them and kill as many people as possible.
Now, let's tally the kills by situation. We are only going for those that were affected.
a) Some people were alone at the time. Be they sleeping, at home, in the wilderness, etc. They would be spared having killed anybody.
b) Some would be with people in safe areas without many good weapons. Those would suffer low overall fatality rate.
c) Some would be with people in traffic. High traffic situation would have extremely high fatality rate.
d) Some people would be at work in dangerous evironment or with dangerous tools. There would be a high fatality rate there.
Overall: People that live alone or happen to be alone at the time, as well as anybody who isn't near such functional phone at the time for any reason is safe from direct fatality.
From those that aren't people on the streets in big cities, manual laborers, cops, and soldiers suffer massive losses.
Then comes the second wave. Suicides from having killed loved ones, and vengeance for loved ones killed by other people.
Then comes the third wave. With most active soldiers and probably over half policemen dead, and the world being in panic, crime rate spikes.
It is also likely that many production companies lose too many workers to keep operation.
The human race would not end. But I'd say a good 40% to 60% would die as a direct or indirect result of this.
No Azog did NOT succeed in destroying the Line of Durin. Dain of the Iron Hills, who was a major part of The Battle of 5 Armies, is also of the line of Durin. On top of that Azog wasn't even a character in The Hobbit. His Son Bolg was and his motivation was revenge against Thorins Specific Family and not The Line of Durin, due to Thorins Kinsman Dain killing Bolgs Father Azog in Khazad Dum. And Finally, it is NOT possible to destroy the Line of Durin since ALL DWARVES claim kinship and descent from Durin. Thats why Durin was known as The Father of all Longbeards.
For kingsman, 10s of 100dreds of millions? it that 1 bilion? just imediatly after the " third act" phrase. Please answer.
I still argue that while substituting Dr. Manhattan for a space squid, it would ultimately undermine Ozymandias' plan entirely. His goal was suppose to be to unite humanity against a single foreign enemy. Dr. Manhattan is not a foreign enemy. He is not an unknown enemy. He is a human that was altered by an experiment gone wrong. But if humanity set up the conditions to create him once, they likely can do it again. Ozymandias meant for Manhattan to become the ultimate nuclear deterrent. But having seen what happened after WWII, you would be a fool to think that one country could come up with a weapon, allow it to obliterate 15 million people and the rest of the nations of the world wouldn't suddenly make it a priority to develop the technology to have their own Dr. Manhattans as a countermeasure.
'I'm dead, but I won' - kind of takes some of the lustre off
Regarding #5, he could’ve just built a few Wardenclyffe towers.
Alien mother in Aliens, as we know it infected everyone apart from Ripley?
Titanic - The iceberg won :D
Oldboy - I don't want to spoil the ending, eeewww
The Dark Knight - Joker lives (RIP Heath), and Batman flees
Avengers Endgame - I still think Thanos was right.
Chinatown - Huston gets to take his daughter/granddaughter, second eeewww
The Thing - The alien did survive and drank the petrol.
Rocky - He didn't actually win the fight, and Creed kept the title.
Gladiator - He may well get killed but Joaquin did kill Russell.
Raiders Of The Lost Ark - The government hushed up proof of Christ being real.
Jaws - The shark was just doing what sharks do, then humans come and kill it :))))))
#2 just doesn't belong on the list called "didn't realise actually won". It belong on a list called "everyone knew they won, unless they didn't watch the movie."
Ozymandias' win wasn't anything other than obvious. He literally said he won half an hour ago.
In Kingmans. India and China must have been LIT
Putting President Snow on this list shows a lack of understanding of the movie.
The Riddler from "The Batman" won in my opinion...
Wanna know who else won, Agent Smith. The Matrix.
Arlington Road 🔥🔥
Definitely more than a few years in jail. The reason why Callahan loses is cause the heroes offered help and would have been able to find his daughter. Now his daughter is free but he's stuck behind bars.
"Khansequently"
I see what you did there.
Durin's line though was not cut off by Azog the Defiler in the Hobbit series however as Thorin was succeeded as King Under The Mountain by his cousin Dain (who also appears in the Battle of Five Armies) and the line continues on into the Fourth Age. So Azog actually failed again.
The worst part of the Khan movie was Kirk dismissing Saavik's warning about dropping shield when approaching Kahn's stolen ship, and Spock agreeing with Kirk and admonishing her. She was correct logically AND procedurally. These uncharacteristically idiotic decisions ruined the movie for me. It's the old adage that "nothing would happen in a movie unless the characters do something stupid"
About Ozymandias, yes, he won but it was a temporary victory at best. When the character showed up in the DC Universe he thought of his plan as a failure since he wanted to create lasting peace and that peace crumbled in a shockingly short time. Thus why he is trying to form a new plan using a different universe.
Except they now know what he looks like.
Maybe DC writing is bad?
6:27 actually "tens of hundreds of millions" is quite wrong, because that would mean that billions died, and it weren't that many