The Gilded Age | The Church Where The Rich Can Lease A Seat - St Thomas' | S2 E1
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- In HBO's The Gilded Age, season 2 episode 1, we are getting reacquainted with our cast, and we're starting on Easter Sunday 1883. The 5th Avenue dwellers attend St. Thomas Episcopal Church, and I have some real-life information to share with you about that. just starting to get to know the story of Carrie Astor, daughter of THE Mrs. Astor. So far in the show we haven't seen much of Carrie, who is 21 years old in The Gilded Age's 1882 timeframe.
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Easter hats, that is. It’s Easter Day in 1883 - the next year after the season 1 storyline.
The title of this episode is You Don’t Even Like Opera.
My plan is to give you a few videos for each episode and just focus on one or two aspects of the show, instead of a full recap. In this video, I’m going to start where they started.
At the church. And you know that I like to do a little extra digging, so I have a news article to share with you from this time period that gives a little more info on the church that our upstairs cast attends. And we'll get caught up with Peggy and the sad Easter that the Scotts had on this video from Ti's Hot Mess History.
If you want to check out ALL of the Scandals You Didn’t Know on this channel, enjoy this playlist:
ruclips.net/p/PLJTOm-WxzySlEyGe8lKcPx_P5e2-k2wkx
For my super hot & nasty scandals, follow me on Patreon:
www.patreon.com/user?u=84584460
I have a feeling Jack will represent the uniquely American experience of going from dirt poor to uber wealthy. He's about to break several hearts in the process.
I think that you are most likely correct. I also think that you are the first person to leave a prediction comment. I'm going to use it in an upcoming video.
I would love that storyline for him 🥰
Yup. Hope so!! You called it first. 🎉
Yeah I figured that out last year
@ThatsJustMyBabyDaddy I used your comment in our first Fan Predictions video. It premieres today at 3:00 pm CST
My heart breaks for Peggy. She’s so beautiful and smart. I hope she finds some happiness this season. I LOVE Bertha’s wardrobe.
I'm with you. I hope that Peggy has something good happen to her this season. She needs a break!
Bertha spares no expense for her threads. Also her gloat is expert level-subdued yet VERY noticeable. I don’t know how she does it 😆😆🤣😂
I loved Oscar’s “friend” saying he’d rather be true to himself than marry and have a family 😊
Lip service because if he was true to himself he would be exactly who he was in public and private.
@@seriejohnson698 In 1883? Are you serious?
I was actually surprised that the show included the comment. It was a different time. Being out wasn’t possible in 1883. It could get you killed, excommunicated, and it was against the law. No one was making those kind of comments, most were ashamed and scared of being found out. Life was horrible for gay men. Some of the ripples from the past still exist in 2023.
“Standards” and beliefs were so different…
Married women were “property”. Segregation existed, the “rich” were allowed to break unions (with US military), many extra marital affairs were tolerated, and young children worked in locked factories.
Every Sunday I get so excited about the evening and after the kids are in bed. I pour a glass of wine and get in my favorite robe to watch this show.
I agree that the wedding announcement scene was so funny!!
I'm so excited to meet people like you, who are excited about this show. I'm already sad that we only have 7 weeks left. But I'm going to enjoy this season, after such a long wait.
I knew that I couldn't be alone about that wedding announcement. Hahaha!
I wonder if Jack/John will improve the alarm clock. He was very focused on figuring out why alarm clocks don't work all the time. I have high hopes for him. I also got sparks from the widower towards Peggy. Let's see how this pans out
I'm here from the future, reading comments for prophecies come true! Lol
Prior to the 20th century it was a fairly common practice in mainline Protestant churches to sell or rent out pews. It wasn't just the church's attended by the very wealthy. There were usually benches for those who couldn't afford to buy or rent a pew. But they were in the back of the church or sometimes on the 2nd level. and were not very comfortable. Older churches often had private boxes for entire families. These had doors with the family name on them. When you joined a church as a member you usually had to subscribe to some sort of profession of faith, i.e. church doctrine. You then had to make a financial commitment in the form of an annual membership pledge. Sometimes this was based on tithing, often it was just a fixed sum of money. And then you were permitted to purchase or "engage" (rent) a pew. In the parishes attended by "society," anyone with aspirations to being accepted as a member of the club would have purchased their pews outright. Once purchased a pew was considered legal property. It could be sold, rented, gifted or passed on through inheritance subject to the rules of the church. Some churches, typically nondenominational, did not engage in this practice. Also, Catholic churches rarely sold or rented pews. Some African American churches also did this. But the practice was not as widespread given the broad diversity of income among parishioners likely to be seen in a black congregation. But there certainly were churches that were mostly attended by the more well-off segments of black society, and they often mimicked the prevailing customs in white churches. Overall, the practice began to die out around the turn of the century but lingered in some churches even into the 20th century. The Old North Church in Boston was still selling and renting private box-pews as late as 1912.
St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City rented pews when it first opened. Seems like an interesting topic ito research. What is this only done on the East Coast? Was it also done in Europe?
@@dboutier5636 I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but it was very common in Britain and within the CofE. I recall reading somewhere that when George Washington was president and the capital was still in Philadelphia, that he made a point of supporting numerous churches through direct gifts and also rented pews in at least seven churches. In the late 1860s President Andrew Johnson, who never formally affiliated with any church, visited many different ones while he was in office including periodically attending Catholic Mass. Given the level of anti-Catholic prejudice at the time, this raised some eyebrows. But Johnson wrote approvingly of the service and was especially impressed that seating was free and open to everyone on a first come basis. (Johnson is not highly regarded by most historians for very good reasons. But at least his religious beliefs have not been held against him.)
Thanks very interesting
@@jec1ny Hmmm...one of the points of disagreements between Catholics & Protestants is that Catholics believe in Transubstantiation - that Jesus is really present in the Eucharist vs Protestants feel it is only a symbolic ritualistic exercise. At the time, priests would have been disinclined to administer the Eucharist to non Catholics. Also pre 1960s Catholic services would have been in Latin vs English so I'm not certain how much Johnson would have followed
@@sgabigConsidering Latin was part of education in the 18th century, let’s assume he understood maybe half (there’s a big difference between reading and listening).
Thank you. I no longer have access to HBO, so this is such a welcome treat! The Russells will find their place, I'm sure. They're the ones I'm gunning for! I also LOVE the incorporation of a partly real BLACK family from the upper middle class and how the internicine politics of Black culture seems so integrated into the whole picture. I will look forward to your new missives with glee!❤
Much love,
Your fan from Boston,
David.
I'm so glad that you enjoyed this. I wish that there was some way that I could do a screening of the show once a week without getting in trouble for copyright issues. I enjoy seeing the Scotts too. It's rare that we get to see this part of the reality of black people in that time period.
Sending you love from Texas, David. Thank you!
@ dysonsquared
The Scotts were not "partly real
BLACK" Upper and middle class
Blacks have existed since Colonial
times in the larger cities of the
USA. These people also had their
own resorts and beachside
neighborhoods. (Lena Horne's
family was from this group)
Riverhead Long Island (although
not a big city) once had several
socio-economic strata of Black
people.
These people had their own
Black-owned businesses and
Black professionals (doctors,
dentists, lawyers and clergy)
In the film "Imitation of Life" (1959)
the characters of Annie Johnson
(Juanita Moore) Sarah Jane, age 18
(Susan Kohner) and Sarah Jane,
age 8 ( Karin Dicker) as well as
others portrayed this group of
Black people.
@here_we_go_again2571 thank you. I'm aware. My statement was meant as it was. A semi-reality. Neither a real thing nor a fic titious thing. I hear, feel, and see what you mean.
Great video! Thank you!
Thank you so much for watching!
An enjoyable and insightful commentary. I read somewhere that ordinary people would come out and watch the rich people dressed in their finery and Easter bonnets walking to church.
The pews at the Presbyterian church I attended in New York that the rich used to attend in the past still have the family names of the former occupants on them and all the church's stained glass windows are by L.C. Tiffany, they are gorgeous!
That's interesting. I bet it's beautiful!
@@TisHotMessHistory They are now well protected because they have become priceless.
😂😂😂 say COFFEE ☕ again
cu-offee. LOL!
Thank you. Your commentary was witty and you have a lovely speaking voice.
I enjoyed your still shots because it gave me a chance to study the costumes while you were commenting. To be honest,
I listened to your voice the first two times, then the third time I shut off the sound ... My bad! Can't help myself the
costumes are gorgeous!
Renting church pews, earlier boxes, was not uncommon where the congregation could afford to do so. During Colonial
times families who owned the boxes would bring along their own charcoal heaters. The sermons were long, sometimes
as long as an hour. Sunday morning church services at a protestant church was a marathon! Later, instead of benches
and boxes; pews with backs were built throughout the church.
Most denominations believed that when the church got very crowded, with standing room only, that it was time to start
a fund-raising campaign to build a satellite church. The idea of an adjacent or close by "church hall" for gatherings came
about as the population and the membership of the churches grew. By then ladies guild and the other organizations
within the church became too large to be accommodated at the parsonage (vicarage).
I try not to speculate on the direction that one of Julian Fellows epics will take. I just wait to be immersed in its glory.
Thank you so much for watching...and listening...and watching in silence. Hahaha! I appreciate all of it. And I'm with you. I love the costumes.
Jack can make it rich; he's got the smarts coupled with loads of charisma; and he has a good heart, so it will be gratifying to see him make a future for himself. Adelaide perfectly mirrors Jack's good qualities. Hopefully they'll share good fortune together, which leaves poor Bridgett, who's really not a bad person, out. But Bridgett is young and has plenty of time to find her match - and, no less important, she has the good Mrs. Bauer looking after her.
I like the way that you put for Jack and Adelheid. I didn't really think about it, but she's a go getter too. She spoke up and said that she wanted that lady's maid position, and she got it. That's a BIG step up for a servant. And yes, Mrs. Bauer is definitely going to look after Bridgett. I want all of them to find love.
I'm going to have to use your comment in my 'fans theories' video.
I used your comment in our first Fan Predictions video. It premieres today at 3:00 pm CST
My vote goes to Bridget. Jack is friendly yet a bit laid back. In my opinion, Bridget's shyness makes her a good match for Jack. Jack will definitely "make it" and whomever he chooses will be a lucky young lady!
Ok, I need to rewatch season before watching your review, so I'll be back .... I'm excited.
LOL! I hope that you enjoy it!
I agree with your thought s about Arthur, Peggy's father. Parents sometimes do horrible things in the name of love for their children. Arthur thought that he was doing the best thing for his daughter, even though he was horribly wrong. Still, he was being protective as a father. I believe his wife was dealing with many levels of hurt, the loss of a grandchild, experiencing the devastation of her daughter, and also being deceived by her husband (similar to how angry Bertha was to her husband, not angry because of what happened, but because of the secret he kept from her). She may never forgive him.
Right. Peggy's father had all the right intentions, he just made the wrong move. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to the Scotts.
Hello Ti and fellow subscribers! I’ve just discovered this channel and I love it. I’m a history nerd so I love the ancillary info about past scandals. The Gilded Age has become a new favorite of mine and I love the inclusion of Black society as a parallel. I don’t think Jack is trying to make Bridgette jealous - he seems honest and without guile. I think he has also picked up that Bridgette’s reticence is not about him. She has trauma from which she may never recover. Peggy’s loss is so heartbreaking. I don’t think her parents will divorce but Arthur has a LOT to atone for and Bertha will make him pay for his miscalculation. I hope Marion does not run into Thomas again but it may be inevitable. The costumes and sets this season are again exquisite. I can’t wait for your next review…thank you! 💖
Hi Robin! Thank you so much for giving my channel a try. We love history nerds here.
Hmmm...you might be right about Jack. Peggy's mom is Dorothy. But I get what you're saying and I hope that's true. She seems so angry now. I wouldn't mind it if Marian runs into Raikes just one more time. I would hope that Agnes would be with her and she can cut him down with some nasty words. LOL!
In case you haven't already seen it, I just put out another review for episode 1 today. This one covers Marian and Oscar. And thank you for commenting. I can use your comment in my 'fan theories' video. I'm going to work on it tonight and tomorrow morning. Welcome!
I used your comment in our first Fan Predictions video. It premieres today at 3:00 pm CST
@@TisHotMessHistory I am so very honored! Thank you!!
Jack is gonna design clocks?! And get rich? Gasp.
We've seen bertha's former lady's maid social climbed.
Hello Ti and replay chat. I’m loving this new hot mess😊😊
Hey, Puzzle Pieces! I'm so glad that you're loving it! Do you watch the show?
@@TisHotMessHistory yes I do but it’s more fun here🤗🤗🤗
AWWWWWWE @@nexy007 ! That makes me so happy to know. Thank you!
I hope that Miss Turner will become Mr. Russell new secretary.
Aunt Agnes won't allow it!
@@meeeka
She was fired by Bertha
at the end of season 1.
So, I doubt it.
I doubt that. but the thought is funny! I need to put your comment in my 'fans theories' video.
I used your comment in our first Fan Predictions video. It premieres today at 3:00 pm CST
Replay gang!!! Great job!!
Thank you, Teresa!
I just discovered your channel and I really enjoyed it. I don't think Jack is trying to make anyone jealous, I think he's moved on from Bridget and she will regret it later when he makes something of himself which wil be representative of another diaruption to class order in America that happened after the "Russell" types....
I also loved how this episode reminded me of the movie Easter Parade, it is set in the same time and the walk to church was a big deal among society, showing off status and fashion.
Thank you for checking out my channel! Hmmm...I like your thoughts about Jack. I'm going to have to use your comment in one of my upcoming videos. You could be right. I'm really interested in seeing where his character will go.
I have seen so many Easter Parade references after this episode, and I have to admit...I have not seen the movie. Now. I'm going to have to.
The movie, Easter Parade is set in 1912 during The Progressive Era, which followedThe Gilded Age. The Gilded Age, according to Google info, is from 1877 to 1900; it occurred in the US during the Victorian Age in England, which was from June 18, 1937 to January 22, 1901. To refer to another character created by Julian Fellowes, Violet Crawley lived most of her life during the Victorian Age.
@@themermaidstale5008 Thanks for the info. I was aware, which is perhaps how I still relate the Gilded Age scene to the Easter Parade movie(1948). I think the meaning and status still hold between the time frames (As shown in the My Fair Lady, not long before the Edwardian period) We also see similar scenes in the movie Gigi(1944) and the adaptation of the book (in which the story takes place in 1900). Of course, I am making movie references but much like the show adapted to true life customs/events. It was nice to see.
I used your comment in our first Fan Predictions video. It premieres today at 3:00 pm CST
I note that it seemed to be a tradition to walk to church on Easter Sunday as opposed to riding a carriage as usual. I wonder why.
You're absolutely right. That was the tradition, but I don't know why it started. I'll have to look into that.
I’ve been reading more about Alva Vanderbilt who Bertha Russel’s character is loosely based on. Alva’s life especially her later life was truly fascinating. I hope the later seasons touch on this via Bertha’s future storyline’s
very very loosely, Alva came from impoverished old money southern bell or something.
and she didn't really have a happy marriage
Reverend Forte reminds me of an older Johnny Galecki (Leonard in the TBBT)
I never would have thought that, and I even had to think about what TBBT was. LOL! But I guess that I can see that, a little.
I rewatched the episode and it seems to me that the servants are in the same church (with the exception of Bridget, a Catholic), but in the side aisle - because the voice-off for the shot with them is also Robert Sean Leonard's voice preaching the same sermon.
Take a look again at the altars. There are 3 different alters, but there is only one voice. After he says "please rise" three different congregations rise. The St. Thomas church altar is brighter and has more candles. This is also confirmed on HBO's podcast.
Cool video.
I’m watching the show, I would like to see a video about Henry Flagler.
Thank you for watching! I'm glad that you liked it. Flagler is on my list. I will likely get to him after this show is over.
@@TisHotMessHistory 🥰
@@TisHotMessHistory 💕
Funny how they all happen to be Episcopal.
That was Peggy's husband. Not an adopted father. That was the child's biological father.
No he's not. He adopted the child. At the beginning of the episode, Dorothy said we're going to join the Springs to share in their grief for Easter. He is Mr. Spring. He said that his wife's name was Carlotta and she passed after the boy. We haven't seen Peggy's husband.
It looked like the household staff did go to the same church but they sat in the back pews. I guess I was wrong
I thought so too
The easiest way to tell the difference is to look at the altar shots. There's one of the servants' church and the wealthy church back to back.
Also, there's a moment when the minister says "Please rise". All three different congregations stand - the rich, the servants, the black people.
Have to say that Easter was a very, very big event back then and Larry would not have been absent nor Mr. Astor.
Peggy being announced as the grieving mother on Easter Sunday would have been a huge scandal, especially to the memory of the mother who had just died. Just so far fetched. Can’t wait for her story to move on. Will be interesting when her husband who was bought of by her father finally reappears.
@@pNo415 even in the black church it would’ve been a scandal? I too was a tad disappointed in the son storyline . It does bring light to the social construct of the black bourgeoisie though so I get it but yeah…
@@pNo415
They might have been passed
off as friends of Mr. and Mrs.
Spring. I wonder if Peggy's
father knew of Mr. Spring
before Peggy's son's death?
Peggy's father would not have
allowed the family to be in
mourning if they were in NYC
(Peggy and maybe her mother
would have feigned illness
and stayed home) The upper
class Blacks in Peggy's home
congregation would have known
if her father had business
connections in Philadelphia.
I enjoyed your video. I don’t like live video’s. I prefer the ones you are making
Thank you for watching! I'm so glad that you enjoyed it. And I'll definitely take your opinion into consideration.
I thought Peggy was in Pennsylvania, for the funeral.
Wasn't JFK called jack? Its like bill for Richard or teddy for Edward. Jack for john. I know a lot of latino men called Francisco and their nickname is pancho/chanchito. Isn't peggy short for Margaret? 🤷🏿♀️
wait. didn't the old church burn down and was rebuilt here in the more wee to do area? Or am I confused on the churches?
You are not confused on the church. But it the version that we see on the show that burned. It was built in the 1870's and burned in 1905, then rebuilt about 10 years later. But it's first location was built in the 1820's, in the not-so-great part of town.
I do believe Jack will be an Inventor and is a nice guy!I don’t believe there will be any divorces, Peggy’s mom will forgive him.Unsure about Peggy and the Adoptive Father!!???
I hope that you're right about there being no divorces.
Right
We're all wealthy Gilded Age people snobs? Were their any that were really honest & nice people, but very RICH..?
They were just like everyone else in that regard - some good and some bad, and most have a bit of both good and bad in them. The bad things are amped up on this show for drama. A lot of the men were terrible people to work for, but very charitable.
.... your skin had to be light enough to see Veins, 😢 dear Lord, 🤦🏽♀️... i stopped listening after that sentence.
😂 better than having the same color as your dodo
Can't the presenters be a little more prepared before they upload their videos? Who else doesn't want to sit through ten minutes of music before getting into why we came here?
I guess that this comment didn't go the way you hoped it would. If you heard 10 minutes of music before this video played, it means that you don't know how to use RUclips. These videos are prepared an entire day before I premiere them.