The Gulf of Tonkin Incident: The Incident that Never Actually Happened
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- In August of 1964, an international confrontation, now know as the Gulf of Tonkin incident, was the catalyst that led the United States into the Vietnam War.
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Creating false circumstances to start a war? No, that’s never happened before or since. =/
Gotta love the military industrial complex of America... killing people and making money.... the American Way
Yeah, that ol' chestnut is an American classic!
@@robbabcock_ Hardly unique to the U.S.A. Sad classic of humanity.
I didn't know veitnam had oil
@@ethanniedorowski116 ‘Containment’ ‘Domino Effect’
When RUclips puts a context warning on a video you know it's going to be a good one!
2:05 - Chapter 1 - Instigation
4:00 - Chapter 2 - 1st attack
6:45 - Chapter 3 - 2nd alleged attack
9:45 - Chapter 4 - Confusion
13:30 - Chapter 5 - Analysis
15:25 - Chapter 6 - Fallout
For those of us graduating High School in 1965 and '66, this was a life changer. To avoid the Draft, I went downtown and enlisted in the Navy. Got a school and some specialty education, saw the World. Things were different then.
My grandfather ended up in the Marines and flew with the Medical corps doing medevac. He only ever talked about it a little, as alot of guys ended up that way, and every piece he told me sounded like a horror story.
Can you sue the US Govt for sending you into a war they instigated and resulting you in lifelong PTSD and an early cancer due to agent orange?
@@hkchan1339 You can file a claim through the Veterans Administration. I have several friends with both PTSD and cancer cases, and the V.A. gives them a monthly payout. They like to reject the claim at first, but the Veteran has to re-file and keep on it. Having a Lawyer sometimes helps.
I was born in 71. I don't feel like i have a valid opinion on what things were actually like back then for you boys. Like you said, things were different then. Lots of good men were wasted by fools is my conclusion. Same as today i suppose
My dad graduated high school in ‘65 as well. He told me that when he was 19, he foolishly thought that because he was overweight and wore glasses the Army wouldn’t draft him……. I think he said it was in 1967 he got his draft notice and freaked out, so what did he do? Well, he didn’t enroll in college (his grades sucked anyway), and he sure as hell wasn’t going to Canada, so he enlisted in the Navy. Ended up retiring as a Chief Petty Officer in the ‘80s when I was still in grade school.
Fun Fact-Jim Morrison’s father was the commander of the US Naval Forces when this happened.
Came into the comments to say just this.
The musician?
@@rc59191 no the famous carver of wooden ducks lol
@@rc59191 yeah.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stephen_Morrison
@@kingjellybean9795 I have a Morrison Mallard 1:8th scale model, it's breathtaking
Live near and have visited the USS Turner Joy museum a bunch of times. Provides good insight into how the crew lived and worked as well as a discussion on the atmospheric conditions on Aug 4th. Exhibits explain both the Maddox and the TJ incidents and explain how there is a very real likelihood that stress, inexperience, and fear from the first attack could have played a part in the interpretaions and responses of the sailors the night of Aug 4th.
Good job covering the incident as always.
Didn’t expect find RUclips editorializing this video, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at this point.
Where have you been for the last 2 years?
Quite unique that Jim Morrison's dad is one of the figures that involved
Just FYI, the Ticonderoga shown is the Ticonderoga class Cruiser, not the Essex Class Carrier that actually took part.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering how F8’s got launched from a cruiser. 😆
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ticonderoga_(CV-14)
I've come to expect that kind of shoddy work from Simon's channels. They type names into search engines and just go with the first pic they see. They did it with the Enterprise (CVN-65) when they meant CV-6 in another video. I used to teach high schoolers who could do a better job. It makes me wonder what else they get wrong.
@@erikdrake6317 I'd hardly say shoddy. Errors like that don't happen often. There is so much he and the team research that it's understandable (but very annoying) that small details like that slip through the cracks.
@@dustinwilton5343wonderful
The information released couldn't have been very secret, I remember reading a book about the incident back in 1981 while at my first duty station in Germany. The book said exactly what is presented here. Make what you will of that.
I mean, there were 100s if not 1000s of people involved in this. Someone will leak the information sooner or later.
Fuck RUclips and their failure to show comments
It's the Mandela effect
The book never existed to the rest of us in this dimension lol
@@edwardsanchez3708 Imagine this I found it in a library on an ARMY post and that it made the navy look like a bunch of bellends who started a war to get more funding.
Yes but the NSA releases and McNamara confessions provide greater insight and context.
I interviewed the late CDR William S. Buehler (USN RET), who was on the bridge of MADDOX at the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. He describes physical evidence of the ship taking fire (bullet holes); claims he had eyes on torpedoes in the water, mentions close calls with them - so close he could see Chinese print on them - and maneuvering the ship to avoid them. As for Stockdale's claims, CDR Buehler tended to cast shade on them. In the comments section, you'll find input from a few crew members of MADDOX, as well...which I thought were interesting. For any history buffs interested in seeing original blueprint copies of MADDOX' DRT (Dead Reckoning Trace), which CDR Buehler had acquired from the ship and show exact times, targets, and torpedoes during the entire incident, consider viewing my series of interviews.
Buehler... Burhler... Burhler
I was a bit confused when you said the USS Ticonderoga and there was a picture of the cruiser of the same name. Not the aircraft carrier.
You got the (second) image of the wrong USS Ticonderoga (CG 47, the lead ship of her class of guided missile cruisers, commissioned almost two decades after the Gulf of Tonkin incident). The F-8 aircraft involved in the incident belonged to USS Ticonderoga's air group. (CV 14, an Essex class carrier).
completely wrong USS Ticonderoga at 6:04 in the video. The ship pictured wouldn't even be built for 15 years or so. That's a lazy mistake, hell It's not even the right type of ship. Smh
Oh no that generation did learn. It's the next generation that forgot the lesson.
'That' generation is running the country into the ground.
That's how history works.
"We will be different"
Pure hubris.
As the 77th anniversary of the sinking is nearly upon us, I’d very much like to see a video covering the cruiser USS Indianapolis’ last mission and subsequent sinking, as well as the aftermath of it and the trial of Captain McVay, and the later clearing of his name by Congress. Love the videos, keep up the good work.
There's a nice memorial for the USS Indianapolis in Indy. It's along the canal downtown, which has multiple museums along it & is a nice place to take a walk... so I see it regularly.
“Give me my damn war!” Lyndon Johnson
watch the documentary by oliver stone JFK, through the looking glass, explains why this event occured
don't you love how RUclips just decides that your historical work even if its completely accurate needs their approved "context"?
It's better than missing misinformation and having people say youtube endorses it.
@@Sir_Uncle_Ned and oh how terrible that would be for the global mega corporation
@@turdferguson9356 actually it would be pretty bad. If you remember the ‘adpocolypse’ it was caused by claims of RUclips supporting terrorist organizations as videos from some of those groups were monetized.
Anytime they provide "context" you know the conspiracy theory is true and the "official context" is bullshit
It's how I discovered 9/11 was indeed an inside job, unnecessary "context" shoved down my throat
Context is a good thing to have.
No one really talks about; what the hell our navy was doing there ???
I was stationed on Guam with a Senior Chief who was on the Maddox intercepting morse comms during the incident. He was just a Seaman.
My grandmother’s brother was the Commander of the Maddox, John (Jack) Herrick. He tried to write a book about it but said the FBI kept interfering. The family wasn’t sure about that until Jack had a grad student helping him to finalize the book in the 80’s. FBI came and confiscated the student’s computer and notes. He was then called back to his university with his project cancelled.
The family still has Jack’s the book notes and draft. I’ve read them. There was an attempted ambush of the Maddox on July 30th or 31st while patrolling near shore. Jack considered that the most dangerous incident. I believe Operation 34A was actually CIA working with the South Vietnamese trying to incite a conflict. Jack knew something was up onshore but not who or what at the time.
The August 2nd attack was a beautiful sunny day. I think it was a Saturday and sort of a day off for most of the crew. They had a cookout on the deck just before they were attacked.
They were originally supposed to be on a smaller ship, but there was a large metal box they had to take that the smaller ship’s deck couldn’t accommodate, so they were reassigned to the Maddox because of the box. Nobody on the ship knew what was in the box.
The photo of USS Ticonderoga is cruiser as CG-47 where old USS Ticonderoga aircraft carrier CVS-14 so you can look it go look it up for the proper photo of the aircraft carrier.
Congrats, want a cookie?
You should do an in depth on America’s worst war criminal, McNamara.
Then do Kissinger. Btw, The Fog of War is excellent if you haven’t seen it.
I've always thought of Kissinger as the worst war criminal.
Not going hellfire and brimstone, but those two unapologetic war criminals may will be smoldering next to each other.
How is it that, whenever I'm researching something on my own, you seem to make a video about it a few days later?
Simon is the RUclips algorithm
@@hkchan1339 Well, let's put it to the test. Next, my algorithm predicts Simon will cover the diplomatic cable leaks.
Simon & crew, can we get a Biographics on Stockdale? He appears to have been a bit of a badass
Who?
Good video 👍
I was 15. I remember watching the first news report, and thinking "O boy, there's going to be a war!"
I am watching our involvement and public reaction to our actions in Ukraine and thinking "O boy, we haven't learned a damn thing."
Or maybe we still have the mindset of my 15 year old former self.
We never learn, that’s the problem.
Oh we learned… Learned that war costs money and some people really like money.
Ukraine is a different story. There was no false flag attack Ukraine or the US planned against current Russia. Its a plain and simple invasion. There is no statecraft, its just blunt force.
@@garretth8224 What is our interest in threatening Russia? Why should we use Ukraine as a proxy for war with Russia?
And what's with all these dealings between the Biden family and corrupt Ukraine oligarchs? They gave Joe's son millions for some reason or other.
We are killing Russians and Ukrainians for the profits of our military industrial complex and to satisfy the needs of the most toxic masculinity/
@@speurtighearnamacterik8230 Are you saying you support killing for profit?
If you want to talk about a naval incident that did happen, there’s always the US intervention against the Iranian Navy during the Iran-Iraq war
That the one where Iraq used a private jet outfitted as a fighter plane?
So youre gonna use that so we forget about this one?
@@braunlajon That and maybe the time USA blame their ship was sunk by Spanish near Cuba. And immediately declare war on the Spanish.
@@braunlajon You have taken their comment way out of context. Its just a suggestion lmao.
@@garretth8224 No, I dont think I am. Because those two arent remotely similar. One was a made up thing, the other was a complete and utter devastation of another navy.
Do a Battle of Robert’s Ridge/Takur Ghar video!!!
Thanks
I was assigned as a combat cameraman aboard USS Jouette off Vietnam as we were chasing a North Vietnamese trawler in 1968. We had torpedo boats attack us. I was up on the bridge with the skpper, Commander Robert C, Barnhart, who told me - "I want you to get pictures of those torpedo boats. I don't want anyone calling me a liar this time!"
Barnhart had been the skipper of USS Turner Joy during the Tonkin Gulf Incident!
A classic case of be careful what you wish for. 1.4 million dead and a war lost.
12:45 Simon's Grindr Notification
How did American leaders go from isolation policy to getting involved in so many foreign conflicts, in less than half a century
Tbf isolationism still resulted in them getting attacked (by the Japanese), but yeah, talk about an over-correction.
Money! The American behaviour in so many conflicts is outrageous.
@@huwguyver4208 Not isolated much if it just leave Hawaii and Philippines alone then i said USA truly none interference with the outside of the American continent by the time Japanese hit USA. Also this is not the first time they claim their ship was attack falsely with no evidence. Last time they claim that they go to war with Spain and took Philippine and other islands as a colony.
There NEVER dealt was isolation, if you look the wars the US were involved in were and are the most regular and numerous of any country since the UK.
Getting dragged into WWI and finally WWII made it clear to the US that isolationism simply wasn't a viable option for the US. Being the only major nation in the West left mostly intact after WWII, just as the Cold War kicked off, in an era where the Soviets were a real and quite apparent threat also made it clear that there was really no other paper capable of standing up to the USSR without the US being the backbone... in an era where nuclear weapons had just been used in combat.
It's easy to be isolationist when you're Switzerland or under the defensive umbrella of a large and powerful ally, and you aren't a target an enemy MUST neutralize... but when *you're* the large and powerful ally who *must* be taken out by any aggressor who desires to play Caesar, well, youbdont have the option of sticking your nose deeper in the newspaper while the neighbors argue.
Thanks Simon
For that map at 12:48, I accidentally read "Mon Gay Torpedo Boats" on the map as "Non Gay Torpedo Boats" and was very confused about the Navy's choices
You showed the wrong USS Ticonderoga at 6:03. What you showed was the Ageis Cruiser CG-47 built in 1981 and not the Essex class aircraft carrier CV-14 built in 1944 that was at Vietnam in 1964.
Yeah a thought it odd that a cruiser would be dispatching aircraft.
Oh that McNamara. At it again. He needed this war to prove how evil and incompetent he truly was. What choice did he have?
That naval admiral name was literally the name of four us generals. How?
To paraphrase Phil Ochs “It’s always the rich to lead us to the war, always the poor to fall. Look at what we’ve done with the sabre and the gun, tell me is it with it all?”
2. Last time I was this early, the US didn't use false flags to start wars
Your partner says you always arrive early
The Vietnam War for America started in 1945. This event's importance is frequently overvalued.
It was a way to sell the war more to the American public.
Simon got a context bubble 😆
The mid-60s version of “yellow cake uranium.” 😂
Please do an episode about Osowiec Fort, pretty please.
Lol wut. Haha you blew my mind. Thank you for another great video
6:04 - Hehe... Funny that you put a picture of the Cruiser DDG/CG-47 Ticonderoga instead of the more accurate Essex class aircraft carrier CV-14 Ticonderoga.
I understand that in editing mistakes can be made, but it made me chuckle as F-8 Crusaders cannot under any circumstances be launched from a guided missile cruiser. 😉
Good Video ...
THANK YOU! it enrages me that people of all generations don't seem to care that the war in Vietnam didn't need to happen, scar the human race, kill millions. So again, thank you. Interesting fact, Jim Morrison's dad was the fleet leader. Read Strange Tales from the Canyon. Oddly enough the author has since 'died'.
Wars throughout history didn't need to happen but they did I would say live and learn but that will never happen as long as people exist
How are you arriving at that conclusion? The way most people see it is the war (police action) shaped American policy for decades.
LBJ was a professional liar,LBJ owned bell helicopter stock and profited handsomely from this horrible war and certain rich Americans profited from this war. These war profiteers should be in jail (but they are dead now). The FBI should have investigated these war criminals, but they are powerful. One little thing worth mentioning is that RFK was doing an investigation on how LBJ acquired his wealth then JFK was murdered and LBJ made sure the investigation against him was dropped. This is one reason why I depise the FBI
War is and always has been about money. Anyone that says “they died for our freedom” is a sad brainwashed fool.
Isn't it so frustratingly disgusting that America had been funding and training the Viet Minh to fight against the French, whilst simultaneously funding the French government's barbaric struggle to retain control of their colonial possession.
I know right?
... so what are you going to do about it?
@@cashewnuttel9054 i guess just be like boomers whenever someone crictixes the federal goverment. just yell you live in the greatest country on earth.
much easier then demanding accountability of goverment lies or actions
@@gggggg3912 Have you considered doing to the guvment what the French did to their famous couple?
@@cashewnuttel9054 lol youtube deleted my reply. they dont like it when people want their freedom.
@@cashewnuttel9054 good to know that the ceo of youtube will be going down as well
You used the wrong photo of the USS Ticonderoga CVA14 which was an Essex classaircraft carrier and not a cruiser as pictured by your production staff.
The USS Ticonderoga you have pictured is CG-47. The planes were launched from a different vessel, The USS Ticonderoga CV-14 which was an aircraft carrier: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ticonderoga_(CV-14)
Did I just fact-check the FactBoi?
Don't be so quick to pat yourself on the back. He's got a documentary factory going on here on RUclips. They make them quick, and generally fairly good, but rife with errors.
#6
Top ten once again, all right ✌️
What do Tina Tina Weymouth of the Talking Heads and Jim Morrison of the Doors have in common?
Your Ticonderoga photo is not the one that served in the Tonkin gulf,...
The entire continuation that followed is not well known. Up until the end of the war, the navy operated in the Gulf of Tonkin, and NVN torpedo gunboats were still confronting navy ships and flashing the international challenge sign. How do I know? I was on the bridge and at the helm during one of those assaults. We saw constant flashes of gunfire from the shore during our time in the Gulf.
Israel: “📝 I see, let’s hope I found the flaws. Crossing fingers there’s no tunnels factor.”
We never did find oil in veitnam
Here after the near Poland incident (Nov. 16 2022)
Can you do a video on the kakoda trail in Papua New Guinea during WWII
Wow RUclips put up context resources.
Great video!
Oooh, oooh! Now do the USS Liberty Incident, which also happened on President LBJ's watch.
"Overeager sonar operators". I was a sonar technician. I have to chuckle at that. The equipment back then was pretty suspect. Of course, sonar techs; they could have been asleep on watch.
As mentioned in the underestimated movie with Don Sutherland Michael Gambon and Alec Baldwin Path to War.
was U.S.G. Sharp related to General Grant?
If ya don't get a lot of views today it's cause we having helluva weather here in Midwest
You should do a video on the West Virginia Mine Wars.
The more I learn about McNamara, the more I dislike him.
Great video. Please cover the Chechnya wars
One NV torpedo boat was sunk and the incident "never happened". In Haiphong they have museu with homage to this boat.
The Maddox was in international waters when it was attacked
Up next;Belleau Woods
So a "Gung Ho" ex Ford Motor Company consigned 58220 Americans to die in what by 1966 he knew was an unwinnable war. God Bless all those Americans & their families who made the ultimate sacrifice and whose names are recorded on the Washington Monument.
That's a bit hyperbolic. We went to war to stop NV from acting on their stated goal, taking SV. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was merely a convenient starting gun.
@@MrTexasDan you backed the wrong side, the French to start with. The conflict started as a nationalist movement to kick the French out and have Vietnamese autonomy, there was no north or south in the beginning. Why didn’t the US support a movement that mirrored their nations birth. HCM actually looked to the US as inspiration in the early years.
Obviously this is with hindsight and easy enough to say now 😃 However I genuinely worry about the US and whether they ever really learn from their foreign policy mistakes
@@frankezane583 Because the French where old allies from WWII. That is the only reason we backed the French.
@@frankezane583 The French are the supporters of USA in 1776 against the British crown actually, how things have turned
At 6:05 you show the cruiser not the aircraft carrier of the same name..... Yeah F8s launched off a cruiser that hadn't been built yet.
The first casualty of war is the truth.
The USS Ticonderoga shown in this video is not (1) a carrier, and, (2) not the ship which participated in the Viet Nam war.
Picture you showed was the wrong Ticonderoga Simon. The one you showed did not exist back then.
I would suggest that anyone interested in this topic read the various histories available in print rather that learn history from a youtuber.
Hey Simon can you do universe 25? Also man you should do more American false flags
Simon, I may have certainly asked about this before, but would like to reiterate to hope you see this: If possible, I would like to see a video about the Hadong Ambush in South Korea on July 27 1950. I am unsure if this battle provides enough material for a video, but I ask because my great uncle presumably died there. He was among the MIA. All but 4 of the soldiers who went missing during the battle were found; however, he was one of the 4 that was never found. If you or your team see this, thanks for reading and keep up the amazing content.
You can volunteer to write a script for him, make some money along the way
Can you do a bio on Rob Mac?!
For Casual Criminalist, maybe?
As an American Veteran and has family members who served in Vietnam there's no more evil man than those two . Vietnam was a disgrace. Those men blood and souls are on their hands. I can only hope God deals proper punishment for causing so much lives to be lost
I argue that by the time you get to war.. the truth was long since sacrificed
Video suggestion, Operation Block Buster: the battle that won WW2 for the western allies!!!
Not only had MacNamera help perpetrate the fire Bombings but scouted the Hiroshima bombings and absolutely denied he knew what was it for years
Considering it's likely classified info at the time. He had zero incentive to admit it.
A friend of mine, a Vietnam Vet, LRRP, said many years ago, that the war was over oil reserves found in Vietnam's territory. He believed this til he died, RIP. How true is it? I don't know, but he would discuss it and argue for hours about it.
Oil and Michelin rubber plantations. The Cee Eye A wanted a cut of the the Asian heroin trade, there were multi-millions to be made there to help finance their secret ops budget. It's a dirty World, and Uncle Sam is no angel.
Americans are obsessed with oil theory everywhere instead of giving attention to usa hatred of communism
Teacher of mine said it was over aluminum which never made much sense to me.
it's too simplistic to simply say a war is "over oil." What does that even mean? That the US wanted to conquer North Vietnam so that American companies could drill for oil there? Unlikely.
Does it mean that Southeast Asia is strategically important, and that natural resources, including oil reserves is one of the lesser reason why, and that as such, allowing nations in Southeast Asia to become Soviet puppet states hostile to the US wasn't in the best strategic interest of the US? Yes, that's possible.
In my opinion it was about various things. The US Misunderstanding that north Vietnam was a Russian puppet but really was trying to get its independence. The 54 failed election in the 50s that divided Vietnam.
The US politicians treated Vietnam as a political tool to win elections. LBJ didn’t want the US public to think he didn’t take fighting communism serious so he jumped in to Vietnam full well knowing he wasn’t gonna win to make it look like he’s taking a stand against communism. . Robert MacManera told LBJ he had a 1/3 chance of winning even before the war started. But according to the pentagon papers the Vietnam war was less about stopping communism and more about to not make the US look weak and to make America look strong. But this wasn’t known in the public or common US soldiers.
US civilians and combat troops were told this was about containing communism when in reality Vietnam was trying to get back its land from south Vietnam. I’m not trying to say the US was solely the bad guy cause north Vietnam government was very cold blooded along with the viet cong. They killed civilians or anyone who wasn’t obedient or suspected of being a traitor. Hue massacre example. Both sides had there evilness In the war
US agent orange, my lai massacre. Nixon pardoning US war crimes in my lai. And various other crimes
North Vietnam .
Viet cong kidnapping, hue massacre, mass killings of south Vietnamese civilians
"And it's one, two, three what are we fighting for, don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Vietnam . . ."
Biographics of Robert McNamara
Funny but I read a paperback book in the late 70s or the start of the 80s it told the same story except the guys on the PT boats where hired US contractors/mercenaries of who he was one of, all of it funded and run by CIA.
I served in the Maddox main battery gun director operating the Mark 25 Fire control radar throughout the entire incident. You are confusing the DRV P4 torpedo boats with the Norwegian built "Nasty" high speed gunboats used by the U.S. with South Vietnamese crewman and American advisors. The Nastys (named for the designer) were used to attack installations on the coast of North Vietnam during the time that we were sent to patrol the coastline. Aboard the Maddox we had nothing to do with the Nasty operations but naturally the North Vietnamese thought we were providing intelligence for the raids. Hence, they decided to attack us. Three Nasty boats heading back south passed us after making a raid when we first entered the Tonkin gulf. One of them broke off and came over to circle around us. They didn't carry torpedoes and were very fast like the North Vietnamese torpedo boats.
@@timdeyarmie9788 He described a raid where they attacked a little fishing village they turned circles in front of the village firing as thair guns cleared the other boats, he said they did it for about 15 mins and took off to thair mother ship. They sank 3-4 fishing boats and shot hell out of the village
The captain of the 731 said it never happened.
Who knows? Simon also said the moon missions weren't faked.
_For all I know they were shooting at dolphins out there._ - LBJ
Yes, what President Eisenhower said about the military industrial complex has
every bit in truth . And it is still true to this very day. MILITARY, Young people, Children and civilians all pay this price for OPULENT GREED.
omitted.. not emitted
Best part is: everyone who knows this was a lie thinks what theyre hearing about Ukraine and Taiwan is 100% true. You included.
whats the difference between the us invasion of iraq and the russian invasion of ukraine
@@zjow4755 ROFL child
Nobody thinks Ukraine and Taiwan info is 100%
Well, they didn't have "weapons of mass destruction ", to speak of.🤔
McNamara should've been tried & dealt with as all war criminals are dealt with
PS: Gulf of Tonkin/Vietnam is when America lost it's moral high ground & started the long slow decline into what we're living through today... endless wars started for little to no reason
I agree. We lost what America meant. JFK and then starting this war…
All brought to you courtesy of one US Navy Admiral, the Vice Chief of Naval Operations. You may have heard of his son, Jim Morrison.
America's favorite pastime. Trying to win other people's civil wars for them and finding out that it doesn't work that way.
Well in their defense it work last time and they took Philippines and other island from Spain.
I mean, they did win the Iraq war. The government established by the Americans still exist as of now and you never hear about much combat operations from the country these days..
Meet the old boss, same as the new boss.