I absolutely love how curious and non emotionally attached you are to the doctrinal questions. It’s beautiful and priceless. It makes my day every time. 🩷
When I was an all-in member the doctrine was tied to my salvation. Now that I'm out and the doctrine isn't threatening me, it is just so intriguing to me. And the more I study it, the less sense it makes.
My wife and saw our ex-bishop after about 25 years. He said he wanted to visit my wife and I. She gave him our address. He didn't show up, but my wife's visiting teacher (are they now called something else?) showed up on behalf of the church. I don't think anyone will come back. The ex-Bishop apparently "outsourced" his personal visit.
Crazy tithing people on SS. I mean they already paid on their income that paid into SS. Church is double dipping on tithing on the elderly. Pretty sick.
My grandmother, loyal LDS, upon retirement refused to pay tithing any longer. My father, superloyal LDS, backed her up. All those years she had tithed her gross not net income, and thus they claimed had already tithed on SS. Every year at temple recommend time she fought her bishop on this and every year he + the next bishop conceded. I LUV my granddma!!! [She had cause for disloyalty. She and abt 20 other women had worked for ZCMI for several decades. Two yrs before they wd come up for retirement, ZCMI laid them off so as not to have to pay their pensions. Mormonism working for the people!]
I didn't have anyone come talk to me after I left except for one guy who was a friend. He quickly accepted I wanted nothing to do with the church from that one conversation, and he's still a friend. My wife had a couple different people ask her while she was at church if she wanted them to come talk with me, but she told them no. My wife was accepting of me leaving and wanted everyone to leave me alone also.
Served a mission. Two elders hit by cars on their bikes in France. One denied medical “approval” I never saw him again. The other after days waiting for approval went to a French hospital and got “sewn up.” Years later I saw him at a reunion. He looks like Dr Freinjenstein sewed up his face.
I have a personal wish that you would pause just slightly after, "Good morning everyone..." I always try to respond, "Good morning," in return, and I can't quite slip it in. Thank you for being a cheery part of my day, and a person that couldn't possibly be improved by abstaining from coffee or wearing uncomfortable intimates. When I read Frederick Douglass, I think to myself, Is it really possible that this man, with a mind like Lincoln's, might have been hidden within slavery his whole life and never flourished? I get the same vibes when I hear your strong spirit give news about another system which considers it a threat and a loss to let humans flourish to their full potential and according to their individual identities and choices.
We had just moved to a different ward about 4 miles from our old ward. Because all of the friendships we had were “geographically arranged” friendships, not a single person contacted either my husband or myself once we stopped attending. We did have our names removed within six months of the time we stopped attending church.
I know a guy who came home with an opioid addiction, and another with a horrible anxiety disorder that led to a drug problem. The rest just left the church
Fascinating quote by Joseph if he really said that about souls in the lowest kingdom advancing until they reach the Celestial. I distinctly remember being taught that this idea is a *_dangerous_* false doctrine, and I believe it was either a church president or apostle who said that. He said that eternal progression is real, but that it goes for eternity *_within_* the kingdom of resurrection. No kingdom-jumping progression allowed! Does anybody else remember something like this? If anyone has reference for either version of the doctrine that would be awesome!
Let me start with the simple questions first. 1. How does one commit the unpardonable sin? There are two ways to commit the unpardonable sin. The first is to have God make your calling and election sure and then to turn you back on Jesus and make pact with the devil and sell you soul and seal the deal by the shedding of innocent blood. The other way is to refuse repentance until the final judgment. God cannot force his salvation on anybody so if one refuses salvation to the very end. He is not saved. 2. What does one have to do to stay our of Hell? The only thing you have to do to say out of hell is to repent. That's it. Everybody who repents of his sins will not go to hell. God does not care when you repent. You can repent now, or on your death bed or after you die. Everybody has until the final judgement to repent. 3. If one has until the final judgment to repent why does it matter when we repent? The first reason is to get rid of the guilt. Guilt is the pain of spiritual death. I sinned as a child and I had guilt. I did not sin very much so the guilt was not very much either, but, I hated the feeling of guilt. It was always there. I could do things to forget the guilt for a little while, but when I was at rest, it always came back. The Lord called me to repentance when I was 24 years old. and I repented and asked forgiveness. In the moment that I was forgiven of all my sins, I felt the guilt lifted. My whole being was filled with peace, freedom and joy, greater than I had ever felt before, but the greatest all was the Love of God that enveloped me, and I was baptized by fire and the holy Ghost and born again. Now repenting does not require that you go back to the church, In fact, in these days, until Jesus himself cleans his house, you are safer if you do not go back to the hell the Jesuits have created in the church. But repenting does require that you begin to have relationship with Jesus. So, the first purpose of repenting how, instead of later is to be free of guilt. The sooner you repent, the sooner you are free of Guild and the sooner you begin to have relationship with Jesus. Another reason for repenting how is for treasures in heaven. Without repentance, nothing you have done counts for anything in heaven. On the other hand, the sooner you repent, the sooner you good works will bring about treasures in heaven. People who put off repentance until they die, will not have any treasure to go to. 4. When a person dies without repentance does he go directly to hell? The only people who go directly to hell when they die are those who have pacts with the devil, those who shed innocent blood, those who commit suicide and the false prophets who set up graven images to lead the people astray. 5. What about everybody else who dies with spiritual death? What happens to them? When Jesus' spirit was in the spirit world, He organized the angels to preach repentance to those who did not repent prior to dying. Everybody who dies without repentance is met by an angel and given the opportunity to repent or go to hell. Those who repent will go up and those who do not will go down. 6. Does one have to be baptized to be saved? No. Everybody who repents, will be, at least, in the telestial kingdom. Baptism is not necessary for the telestial kingdom. 7. If baptism is not required for the telestial, why get baptized at all? Baptism is required for citizenship in the kingdom of God. Being a citizen of the kingdom of God gives you certain rights and privileges not available to non citizens. One of the rights is inheritance in the kingdom of God and one of the privileges is being able to ascend to the throne of God. 8. Does it matter which church a person goes to for salvation? For salvation, no. Anybody who repents and asks God for forgiveness, will be forgiven. In the end, the percentage of people who end up forever in torment will only be 1 in hundreds of billions of people. 9. Is the Mormon church the only true church? There was a time when the church was a true church and had true prophets at the head of the church, but not anymore The LDS church has been an apostate church, at least since 1966, when the president of the high priesthood, David O. McKay, erected a graven image of Lucifer in the SLC visitor's center. A church is only as true as it's people is true to God in keeping the commandments and sayings of Jesus. I hope you have more questions. I think I have answered most of you questions. If I missed any, let me know. I enjoy answering questions.
Had a sister who I came out with, on our 2nd transfer, while I and everyone else was wondering where she was, had gotten into a car accident and passed away. I have honestly don't remember much about her, but she was lovely. Me and the other sisters who I came out with went to her grave together when we got home. She was buried with her dog (which as a dog lover, is the ultimate goal)
Back from seeing Heretic. I'm still processing it. I don't think any returned missionary can watch it and not be moved. The church MUST take every possible measure to keep missionaries safe...and self defense classes in the MTC.
It was my understanding that progression was only done within the kingdom that you were assigned. That there were many different levels within each kingdom, so once you make it to the celestial Kingdom, for example, you could progress to the highest degree. Maybe that belief is the reason men in the early days of the church had so many women sealed to them. Because, though they might have made it to the celestial kingdom, they could only reach the highest dregree of the celestial kingdom if they were sealed in an eternal marriage.
Reach out? No, but had members that are friends and hear of other talk about us and how we are apostates. Its either you are in or you are out in the desolate wicked world. Its so black and white for members.
I was absolutely not taught that you could progress. You ended up in your kingdom of glory and that was it. Also, if you look up the term Spirit Prison on the Church app, it tells you to go see Hell. So currently the church equates the two as the same.
When people say the church should be taxed its investments are. Read the IrS code and it says the only business a nonprofit can own are corporations so that way the corporations pay taxes. If non profits could own LLCs or S corps then non profits literally could earn money with taxes. Also the issue with taxes is taxation can tax something out of existence which is why non profits or churches aren’t taxed since churches are part of the first amendment. Please read the book US monetary history by Murray Rothbard. You’ll see the US literally imposed a 10% tax on every note issued by a bank. Simply by imposing this new tax the banks behind the law forced competition to end their banking practices and follow the new practices big money was pushing. Also if you start taxing churches to be consistent you should tax bill gates non profits, Leonardo decaprios foundation, and billionaires environment non profits which are many. A smaller one like SUWA or southern Utah wilderness alliance or association or something is a non profit and that should be taxed. If you start taxing churches you really open it up and to be consistent you should tax all non profits.
The church needs to give that missionary ALL of his money back that He had to pay to "serve". They wont cause that would ne the Right thing to do and would take integrity which they have none. Judgement day is at hand allegedly according to them which ismt true or the church wouldnt be avting loke it is. They prove to me that there is no God. They prove it by their actions.
Thank you for your fine efforts!
I absolutely love how curious and non emotionally attached you are to the doctrinal questions. It’s beautiful and priceless. It makes my day every time. 🩷
When I was an all-in member the doctrine was tied to my salvation. Now that I'm out and the doctrine isn't threatening me, it is just so intriguing to me. And the more I study it, the less sense it makes.
@@GenerallyUnquotable preach!
My wife and saw our ex-bishop after about 25 years. He said he wanted to visit my wife and I. She gave him our address. He didn't show up, but my wife's visiting teacher (are they now called something else?) showed up on behalf of the church. I don't think anyone will come back. The ex-Bishop apparently "outsourced" his personal visit.
Crazy tithing people on SS. I mean they already paid on their income that paid into SS. Church is double dipping on tithing on the elderly. Pretty sick.
My grandmother, loyal LDS, upon retirement refused to pay tithing any longer. My father, superloyal LDS, backed her up. All those years she had tithed her gross not net income, and thus they claimed had already tithed on SS. Every year at temple recommend time she fought her bishop on this and every year he + the next bishop conceded. I LUV my granddma!!! [She had cause for disloyalty. She and abt 20 other women had worked for ZCMI for several decades. Two yrs before they wd come up for retirement, ZCMI laid them off so as not to have to pay their pensions. Mormonism working for the people!]
What is ZCMI?
I didn't have anyone come talk to me after I left except for one guy who was a friend. He quickly accepted I wanted nothing to do with the church from that one conversation, and he's still a friend. My wife had a couple different people ask her while she was at church if she wanted them to come talk with me, but she told them no. My wife was accepting of me leaving and wanted everyone to leave me alone also.
Served a mission. Two elders hit by cars on their bikes in France. One denied medical “approval” I never saw him again. The other after days waiting for approval went to a French hospital and got “sewn up.” Years later I saw him at a reunion. He looks like Dr Freinjenstein sewed up his face.
I have a personal wish that you would pause just slightly after, "Good morning everyone..." I always try to respond, "Good morning," in return, and I can't quite slip it in. Thank you for being a cheery part of my day, and a person that couldn't possibly be improved by abstaining from coffee or wearing uncomfortable intimates. When I read Frederick Douglass, I think to myself, Is it really possible that this man, with a mind like Lincoln's, might have been hidden within slavery his whole life and never flourished? I get the same vibes when I hear your strong spirit give news about another system which considers it a threat and a loss to let humans flourish to their full potential and according to their individual identities and choices.
We had just moved to a different ward about 4 miles from our old ward. Because all of the friendships we had were “geographically arranged” friendships, not a single person contacted either my husband or myself once we stopped attending. We did have our names removed within six months of the time we stopped attending church.
I know a guy who came home with an opioid addiction, and another with a horrible anxiety disorder that led to a drug problem. The rest just left the church
So sad...these young people are fodder free salespersons.. very cruel ..😢😢😢
Fascinating quote by Joseph if he really said that about souls in the lowest kingdom advancing until they reach the Celestial. I distinctly remember being taught that this idea is a *_dangerous_* false doctrine, and I believe it was either a church president or apostle who said that. He said that eternal progression is real, but that it goes for eternity *_within_* the kingdom of resurrection. No kingdom-jumping progression allowed! Does anybody else remember something like this? If anyone has reference for either version of the doctrine that would be awesome!
“Lengthy” is an irrelevant word if time is eternal.
Let me start with the simple questions first.
1. How does one commit the unpardonable sin? There are two ways to commit the unpardonable sin. The first is to have God make your calling and election sure and then to turn you back on Jesus and make pact with the devil and sell you soul and seal the deal by the shedding of innocent blood. The other way is to refuse repentance until the final judgment. God cannot force his salvation on anybody so if one refuses salvation to the very end. He is not saved.
2. What does one have to do to stay our of Hell? The only thing you have to do to say out of hell is to repent. That's it. Everybody who repents of his sins will not go to hell. God does not care when you repent. You can repent now, or on your death bed or after you die. Everybody has until the final judgement to repent.
3. If one has until the final judgment to repent why does it matter when we repent? The first reason is to get rid of the guilt. Guilt is the pain of spiritual death. I sinned as a child and I had guilt. I did not sin very much so the guilt was not very much either, but, I hated the feeling of guilt. It was always there. I could do things to forget the guilt for a little while, but when I was at rest, it always came back. The Lord called me to repentance when I was 24 years old. and I repented and asked forgiveness. In the moment that I was forgiven of all my sins, I felt the guilt lifted. My whole being was filled with peace, freedom and joy, greater than I had ever felt before, but the greatest all was the Love of God that enveloped me, and I was baptized by fire and the holy Ghost and born again. Now repenting does not require that you go back to the church, In fact, in these days, until Jesus himself cleans his house, you are safer if you do not go back to the hell the Jesuits have created in the church. But repenting does require that you begin to have relationship with Jesus. So, the first purpose of repenting how, instead of later is to be free of guilt. The sooner you repent, the sooner you are free of Guild and the sooner you begin to have relationship with Jesus. Another reason for repenting how is for treasures in heaven. Without repentance, nothing you have done counts for anything in heaven. On the other hand, the sooner you repent, the sooner you good works will bring about treasures in heaven. People who put off repentance until they die, will not have any treasure to go to.
4. When a person dies without repentance does he go directly to hell? The only people who go directly to hell when they die are those who have pacts with the devil, those who shed innocent blood, those who commit suicide and the false prophets who set up graven images to lead the people astray.
5. What about everybody else who dies with spiritual death? What happens to them? When Jesus' spirit was in the spirit world, He organized the angels to preach repentance to those who did not repent prior to dying. Everybody who dies without repentance is met by an angel and given the opportunity to repent or go to hell. Those who repent will go up and those who do not will go down.
6. Does one have to be baptized to be saved? No. Everybody who repents, will be, at least, in the telestial kingdom. Baptism is not necessary for the telestial kingdom.
7. If baptism is not required for the telestial, why get baptized at all? Baptism is required for citizenship in the kingdom of God. Being a citizen of the kingdom of God gives you certain rights and privileges not available to non citizens. One of the rights is inheritance in the kingdom of God and one of the privileges is being able to ascend to the throne of God.
8. Does it matter which church a person goes to for salvation? For salvation, no. Anybody who repents and asks God for forgiveness, will be forgiven. In the end, the percentage of people who end up forever in torment will only be 1 in hundreds of billions of people.
9. Is the Mormon church the only true church? There was a time when the church was a true church and had true prophets at the head of the church, but not anymore The LDS church has been an apostate church, at least since 1966, when the president of the high priesthood, David O. McKay, erected a graven image of Lucifer in the SLC visitor's center. A church is only as true as it's people is true to God in keeping the commandments and sayings of Jesus.
I hope you have more questions. I think I have answered most of you questions. If I missed any, let me know. I enjoy answering questions.
Had a sister who I came out with, on our 2nd transfer, while I and everyone else was wondering where she was, had gotten into a car accident and passed away. I have honestly don't remember much about her, but she was lovely. Me and the other sisters who I came out with went to her grave together when we got home. She was buried with her dog (which as a dog lover, is the ultimate goal)
"Spirit prison" sounds like the Catholic concept of purgatory.
Back from seeing Heretic. I'm still processing it. I don't think any returned missionary can watch it and not be moved. The church MUST take every possible measure to keep missionaries safe...and self defense classes in the MTC.
It was my understanding that progression was only done within the kingdom that you were assigned. That there were many different levels within each kingdom, so once you make it to the celestial Kingdom, for example, you could progress to the highest degree. Maybe that belief is the reason men in the early days of the church had so many women sealed to them. Because, though they might have made it to the celestial kingdom, they could only reach the highest dregree of the celestial kingdom if they were sealed in an eternal marriage.
Thank you
“Gods arm”was constantly after my husband after we left the church. Me? Nah. I just have the wrong anatomy 🤷♀️
Reach out? No, but had members that are friends and hear of other talk about us and how we are apostates. Its either you are in or you are out in the desolate wicked world. Its so black and white for members.
Shouldn't they change the BOM to The book of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? 😂😂😂
Her thoughts or book are comforting, but I promise oaks doesn’t agree with this and at some point will denounce it.
I was absolutely not taught that you could progress. You ended up in your kingdom of glory and that was it. Also, if you look up the term Spirit Prison on the Church app, it tells you to go see Hell. So currently the church equates the two as the same.
When people say the church should be taxed its investments are. Read the IrS code and it says the only business a nonprofit can own are corporations so that way the corporations pay taxes. If non profits could own LLCs or S corps then non profits literally could earn money with taxes.
Also the issue with taxes is taxation can tax something out of existence which is why non profits or churches aren’t taxed since churches are part of the first amendment.
Please read the book US monetary history by Murray Rothbard. You’ll see the US literally imposed a 10% tax on every note issued by a bank. Simply by imposing this new tax the banks behind the law forced competition to end their banking practices and follow the new practices big money was pushing.
Also if you start taxing churches to be consistent you should tax bill gates non profits, Leonardo decaprios foundation, and billionaires environment non profits which are many. A smaller one like SUWA or southern Utah wilderness alliance or association or something is a non profit and that should be taxed. If you start taxing churches you really open it up and to be consistent you should tax all non profits.
The church needs to give that missionary ALL of his money back that He had to pay to "serve". They wont cause that would ne the Right thing to do and would take integrity which they have none. Judgement day is at hand allegedly according to them which ismt true or the church wouldnt be avting loke it is. They prove to me that there is no God. They prove it by their actions.
Only a truly despicable human being could ever use a poor missionary's (Elder Mbay) death to profit off of faith crisis!
Sooo much word salad.
Was he forced to take a vaxx too???