Hey Sinclair. Just a heads up, the short story “The Men of Greywater Station” by GRRM is entirely about a sentient hivemind fungus which takes over a planet. I see a TON of parallels between the scarlet rot and the yellow fungus. Check it out!!!
Sophie saying that when the DLC comes out everything will be proven wrong is gold. She's been burned before. She knows we never will get answers to what the age of the deep sea really is about.
I’m glad Sophie brought up the Rileigh fight and how he uses Scarlet Rot, but I think she missed the weirdest thing about Rileigh, he uses the Scorpion’s Stinger dagger. You don’t get that weapon from him, the Scorpions Stinger is found in the Grand Cloister seemingly the object of worship of the pests there. The description is even more interesting, “A ceremonial tool used by heretics, crafted from the relics of a sealed outer god.” Why is an assassin of the Two Fingers using a heretical ceremonial tool made from a relic of a sealed outer god?
Didn’t know how to fit this in above but it’s another interesting mystery about the dagger that I have no idea where to start to figure out it’s meaning. The hilt ends in a wolf head.
The Two Fingers and the Roundtable Hold as a whole seem to be into some really shady stuff. While they offer basic healing and status effect incantations they also have stuff like Darkness, Shadow Bait and Assassins Approach. So I don't find it all that strange that someone who works for them might uses "taboo" stuff like a Scarlot Rot relic. The Fingers don't seem to care how their agents achieve their goals, just that it gets done. Which again would lead to me the conclusion that the Two Finger's really don't know what the Greater Will wants, or can't get an answer in a time frame that makes "governing" the Golden Order simple, hence the under handed tactics.
@@GodEmperorOfShorts it’s really interesting the way the item descriptions distinguish between the stuff like cure poison and the assassin incantations. Cure poison, heal, etc. all have the description, “Incantation of the Two Finger’s faithful” and all of the assassin ones have “Incantation of the Two Finger’s servants, who once served as the assassins of the Roundtable Hold.” It’s really weird that the game is so specific with the wording of servants and faithful when they have such similar meanings. Especially when Darkness says that the assassins themselves are Tarnished who strayed from the guidance of grace and they hunt other Tarnished who strayed from grace.
I have not directly seen this content, but I'm willing to bet that the reason an assassin of the Fingers uses a holy relic of the Scarlet Rot is precisely the same reason that we are here asking why they would do it. They are using this relic _because it makes no sense for them to do so._ If you and your friends leave the fingers behind, and then finger assassins show up and kill you with weapons obviously related to the golden order, people will begin to suspect them of being shady, and your friends will realize they are in danger too, and try to hide. If, however, you are killed using scarlet rot by a less obvious servant of the fingers, people will assume that in turning your back, you were no longer afforded whatever protection the fingers provide, and so random scarlet rot assassins got to you for having associated with them in the first place.
@@IrvingIV that doesn't explain how he got the Scorpion's Stinger and doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it. If they were trying to hide their existence tying the assassinations together with the same method would be counterproductive even if not obviously tied to them directly and its not like the Lands Between are a safe haven where assassinations and violence were rare--especially for the tarnished who are actively persecuted according to the Two Finger incantations. On the dagger, the one we can find in game is in the Grand Cloister, a temple within the Lake of Rot. The Lake of Rot seems to be essentially the first impact of Scarlet Rot on the lands between and the map piece says that the divine essence of an outer god is sealed there. The dagger is on an altar being worshipped by the pests and specifically states that its "A ceremonial tool used by heretics." What is and isn't heresy is seemingly tied to support for the Erdtree and Greater Will, so why is a vassal of the Greater Will sending servants out with heretical tools?r
Loved the Solaris reference. Just finished my second playthrought the other day, and I'ts growing on me the feeling that ER is actually more of a sci-fi story that uses medieval imaginary to illustrate its ideas. And as you briefly mentioned, the ties to historical processes of colonization are really interesting as well, I wonder if for example local narratives of first contacts between american indigenous populations and western colonizers could be read under the frame of science fiction of some sorts...
Another thread tangentially related to this I haven't seen a lot of discussion on is Gideon. He is insanely invested in Miquella and seems to know a lot more than he lets on. When you use both secret medallions he says "But with the haligtree as it is I suppose Miquella must already be..." before apologizing and giving you Black Flame Protection (weird reward btw). When you beat/find Malenia he talks about how Mohg stole Miquella before he could finish fertilizing the haligtree with his blood before saying, "So. The Haligtree, now but a husk... How vexing that the All Knowing didn't have the full story... Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified." This dialogue is really intriguing when tied with the description of his set, "But when Gideon glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika, he shuddered in fear. At the end that should not be." The reward he gives for this information, Lord's Divine Protection, is also revealing. Lord's Divine Protection greatly raises Holy damage negation (the element that represents the Greater Will?!?) and the description says "Incantation taught to Gideon by the Two Fingers... Gideon gained true knowledge after his long exchange with the Two Fingers - discovering all had been broken long ago..." Why are the two fingers sharing an incantation that counters the god they "serve" and is that long exchange when Gideon glimpsed into Marika's will? Why does getting confirmation that Miquella was stolen before completing the Haligtree cause Gideon to think that Marika was justified? There's so much being left unsaid that I don't really know how to begin to figure it out, before even getting into Gideon's massacre at the Albinauric Village or Seluvis and Gideon's relationship that ended over Dolores, a woman servant of Saint Trina who dresses as a man, and how that again ties back to Miquella as he is Saint Trina.
I never thought of the Erdtree as a weed, but that’s so accurate and gives me a lot to think about. The Altus Plateau is gold, almost a sickly gold, because the Erdtree’s presence is strongest there. I’m glad you touched on the hue in Altus being almost sickly. I felt that right away when I first arrived and it made exploring the place less inviting than say Liurnia or Caelid for me. It makes sense that the Erdtree’s influence is so strong there it’s almost poisoning the land with its golden aura. I never saw it at first but the evidence of the Erdtree being an invasive species is everywhere now, the Minor Erdtrees dotted throughout the land, the small golden trees with Golden Seeds at their base. Great analysis!
For completely unrelated reasons I'd taken to calling that exact shade of yellow/gold "Piss Gold" for years now, so when I got to Altus and started running around and realized everything was THAT shade of gold, I went "Yeah the tree is def evil".
In regards to the blind tutor, the guard counter talisman, warrior starting set, and the flowing curved sword all reference the same tutor, the strong attacks are very similar to waterfowl dance, also the contrast and play on words between flowing and water foul, (fowl) seems to hint at a stagnation versus flow aspect as to how she contained the rot
Yes, it's basically the themes of Sekiro (and Dark Souls trilogy for that matter) condensed in this piece of lore in Elden Ring, the flow vs stagnation.
Only recently found your channel and I cannot tell you how perfect it is for me. The format of Sophie explaining to a less knowledgeable player is great. And while some videos have cute visuals a lot are highly compatible with just listening to like a podcast! Gonna be binging your Elden ring stuff for a while
Yessssss! So hyped for another Elden Ring lore video! I really dig the semi-formal lecture format. The whiteboard makes me feel like I'm in Dignity City, melting into slime in real time.
Something someone discovered recently is that the FallingStar Beasts/Astel represent the two stages of the ant lion lifecycle exactly (like that’s literally what the larva and adult antlions look like), and scarlet rot is associated with the ants, which the Nox seem to have a domesticated relationship with, and clearly live near the Lake of Rot. I think the Astels/stars were definitely sent to cleanse the ants and the SR, because that’s where you tend to find the FallingStar beasts and their craters-the one in Gelmir could easily have just overshot Marais castle; the one in Sellia Crystal Tunnel makes total sense; don’t get the one in Altus (but that might be related to a different kind of putrefaction coming from Deeproot or the Sewers-the motifs of fungi, ants, antlions, pests and the yeast rot that resembles the white liquid of Deeproot are all specifically related to the decay of trees). I suspect something with the Lake of Rot is the sin the Nox of Nokron committed, or is what the Order/Erdtree needed cleared away, and also if Marika is from there, perhaps explains why Malenia is born with Scarlet Rot. Nokstella must have engaged in a different sin against the Order/Erdtree-Crucible related worship, hence the knights and the path to Deeproot and the old tree. Then there are dragon knights in both cities as well as ancestors with horns worshiping stags…so many things seem to intersect and bounce off each other. Layers and layers!
Something I noticed looking at the Fingerslayer Blade is it's actually *very* similar design-wise to the sword the Elden Beast seems to make/pull out of Marika/Radagon's corpse, they both have the same sort of torso/ribcage look
Glintstone is also parasitic (look at Crystal Bud and Glintfly, and crowns of Azul and Lusat, also Grave charms) and I think it is third entity that came from the cosmos. Themes of parasitism and assimilation are very strong in the game.
Id say glintstone is more symbiotic than parasitic. The masters of the primordial current were nearly 100% non organic and they admired the crysyallians for something like that too. It was a mark they tried to achieve.
@@jonnymario771 I still believe it is more parasitic, or rather, assimilating, than symbiotic: Glintstone firefly, for example, "can no longer beguile potential mates." i.e. is cannot propagate itself, i.e. new glintstone fireflies can only be created from from uncontaminated species and if all fireflies are glintstoned, for by some chance, it will be the end of the species as they won't be able to reproduce. Crown of Azul "replaced Azur's brain and skull altogether" which I don't really see as symbiotic, because he cannot really function too much in this state aside of being a seedbed for more glintstone that keeps growing through him. Crystalians are curious example because they are a separate life(?) form with their own agency but the influence of glintstone on original inhabitants of Lands Between makes them passive, devoid of their own action and just a place to seed more glintstone. Not exactly how symbiots behave.
@@jonnymario771 Wouldn't the Erdtree also be symbiotic rather than parasitic in the same way? It confers grace and blessings on humans and other lifeforms, it's a mutually beneficial relationship. The Greater Will's influence expands in exchange for living things benefiting from the Order
@@jonnymario771 Well the Outer Gods seem to just want to spread their influence. There's not really a cost, more just that the Greater Will and the Erdtree's influence spreads
I could be wrong, but my interpretation of the Two Fingers vs the Golden Order is that the Two Fingers are basically like Catholic bishops. They lead the faith of the Greater Will, whose will is communicated through the Golden Order, and basically act as both spiritual advisors and watchers of special people in the realm such as the Empyreans. The Finger Readers can also kind of be though of as bishops since the movement of the Two Fingers is supposed to be difficult or impossible to understand for anyone who isn't a Finger Reader. The Two Fingers' are the ones who actually write the will of the Greater Will for the realm to see, but the Finger Readers are the only ones who can translate those words, and I'm sure that at least at some point there were Finger Readers who twisted or outright ignored the words drawn by their respective Two Fingers to tell people to do whatever they wanted. This isn't written anywhere in the lore to my knowledge but it feels very GRRM to me. He really likes to add stuff from real world history to his stories and it's definitely true that public literacy (i.e. literacy among people who aren't merchants or nobles) across Europe was extremely limited up until the printing press was created. There were definitely corrupt priests who used the fact that people couldn't read the Bible and had to rely on their interpretations of it to line their pockets and achieve worldly power instead of strictly conveying the word of God as they read it. It's never explicitly stated that this also has/does occurred in Elden Ring with the Finger Readers and the Two Fingers but I think it's too resonant with real life history for it not to have happened at some point. This would track with your Sophie's recollection that certain Finger Readers, bereft of Two Fingers to interpret, will read your fingers and tell you what THEY think you should do rather than what the Two Fingers says the Greater Will would want you to do.
You know, Millicent's plot (specifically how the needle forestalls the rot, but doesn't actually stop it) reminds me a little bit of exspheres in Tales of Symphonia. Exspheres were a parasitic life form that the bad guys would put on people that they would imprison and torture. The exspheres would grow stronger and stronger the more their host suffered. The hosts invariably die, but from them comes an exsphere that could be safely "equipped" and which would offer the wielder dramatically heightened abilities. But! You find out later that a certain class of "equipped" exsphere would actually continue to eat its new host, but soooo slowly the host wouldn't notice or actually be harmed by the process. And eventually, after slowly eating enough energy from their host, the exsphere could evolve into a new, stronger lifeform. I wonder - does the needle Gowry gives you actually stop the scarlet rot's spread, or does it merely make it eat Millicent "differently" and more slowly so they can evolve together instead of her dying? Because in order for her to blossom, you kill her while the needle is inside her still, right? But, if you choose to defend her against her sisters, she removes the needle and then dies as a normal corpse. If this is getting close, it also explains why Malenia is SO flowery when she finally lets it out - because it's been slow-growing in her for so long. Also, loose thought here, but scarlet rot reminds me of the protomolecule from the Expanse...
Wow! What a vastly unique, creative and engaging way to not only present thoughtful lore speculation and connections but also makes the viewer feel a part of the actual lore think tank process. I've been playing Dark Souls/Miyazaki games since Demon's Souls release...why have I not found this channel till now?? My loss, indeed. But no more! I will be linking your channel when and where ever I can. New sub here! And I brought snacks!!
And now I am pleased to say that I am a Cultist! Never thought I would ever call myself that lol But yes, I am now a Patreon member, as well. Will be navigating the cyber universe next to join your Discord as well. Keep up the awesome work S&S!
you know the lore is good when Sophie's only four sentences in and you're already confused. "I'll try to get it by the third listen," you think Then she says something that makes your head really spin. "Sounds like a 10th-listen tidbit, there" and that's the Snack Covenant: lore with a rich, sugary filling
I absolutely love listening to your channel~ I planned on sticking to your Bloodborne and Dark Souls content at first, because I couldn’t get my fingers on a copy of Elden Ring right at the release. I didn’t want to spoil anything for myself, but it turns out the lands between are so vast: and it has such an abundance of fascinating characters and enemies…. I feel lucky to have your interpretations and explanations to listen to! The sneak peek I listened to only made me feel a bit more prepared to take in the experience. You are always so thoughtful and articulate, I’ve reached new levels of appreciation for my favorite games- all thanks to you sharing these lovely conversations! Thank you so much!
Very interesting comparison between the Scarlet Rot and how the Greater Will spread the Order throughout the world via the Erdtree. The final form of the Scarlet Rot hosts being a “scarlet valkyrie” seems to fit with what Malenia turns into, since it looks like a disease angel. I would say that’s enough reason to think it’s the third bloom. I do think it’s unhelpful to think of the Outer Gods like they’re some sort of fleshly alien living on a planet somewhere. They’re more like metaphysical forces or manifestations of concepts.
Hi guys! Just coming from my first playthrough with mere 209 hours! This is how I feel about what you said so far, Sophie, after my humble rush trough the game : Fingers seems to be literal hands of Giants. In the Moutaintops, its highly suggested that the creepy crawlers are the hands of the frozen giants, because some lack their arms, though some have their hands intact, clearly looking very 'two-fingerish', being relatively slim and long, and some of the giants are actually big enough for the Two Fingers (Three Fingers) to be their hands. Even the 'fur' covering the fingers could be reminiscent of the hairy giants own covering. I also heard some ppl talk about how Placidusax's pose he has when we first meet him looking suspiciously similar to when the Two Fingers are communicating with the Greater Will. With its two heads raised highly towards the sky, stiff, even his Remeberance mentions him waiting for his God, whoever that might be. Theres even a detail on his hands having five fingers, its the first thing we see in the animation if I recall correctly. Also, the Two Fingers look like they have been torn apart, if you look on its side, it has some distinct markings similar to an open wound. They could easily form a proper hand if bind together with the Three Fingers. I take it as a representation of the Greater Wills shattered power of the Lands Between, because even as a supreme being, its unable to stop us from doing whatever we please to do. The dagger you found deep down the church with Gurranq mentions five fingered hands being a gift from God. If you read the Two Fingers Heirloom, it says that the Fingers communicate with gestures in the air, presenting, or air-drawning the runes that bind different concepts into tangible wholesome ideas for the 'simple' people, similar how the Raya Lucaria mages are preaching to demi-humans. Perhaps havig Three Fingers instead of just Two allows you to conjure even more complex runes, to bind even more complex concepts - concepts like Flaming Flame of Frenzy, or the Death Rune. Perhaps thats what let the people of Leyndell to 'hide' the Three Fingers and its heretics. As a side note, I consider Scarlett Rot and similar to be either a virus/bacteria/nanobot/microscopic alien lifeform, Glinstone, the Giants Flame etc. included, because there's a very thin line to what IS and ISN'T 'life'. Even some crystals here on Earth behave like a living organism, or on the other hands living organisms being questionably alive (I'm looking at you, viruses!), being closer to a complex chemical if anything else. Something like those living rock-snake things around Gaols. Also the idea of using needles to ward off the Outer Gods is almost like applying a tetanus shot. Weird. It seems as if many life forms took roots in the Land Between as you mentioned, and now are just fighting over dominance. But we must distinguish betweem 'native' and 'brought-in' life. Btw. thanks for the video, it already gave me a clearer picture about the poor denizens of rot :))
To my understanding, Golden Order is what Queen Marika created under the guidance of Elden Ring and Two Fingers, and it, just as ErdTree, permeated the land. After she shattered Elden Ring, the Golden Order also got shattered. Two Fingers (the proxies to Greater Will) might look at this mess and say "Ok, burn the tree down but as long as you remake the world as per _our_ command, we are ok with it". So the Golden Order is a product or a consequence of Queen Marika's rule, a re-interpretation of Greater Will through the Erdtree, but not the same as Greater Will.
Hey Sophie at the 12:30-14:00 minute mark when you are talking about Enia and the blasphemy she essentially loses communication with the fingers. So she’s at that point unable to figure out what the Greater Will desires and must find another way to provide an Elden Lord. Since at this time you hold the most shards of the Elden ring, I assumed she felt some sort of duty to fulfill your command. Perhaps without the fingers there is no other way to communicate with the Greater Will. I’ve always assumed the 2 fingers belonged to beings from another world and were severed and sent to the lands between to open a communication link back to the Greater Will. We know each Demigod had their own fingers and were assigned a divine tower where their fingers resided. Perhaps the blasphemy was deemed necessary in order to fulfill the rebuilding of the Elden Ring before the complete collapse of the world. That’s my theory anyways
I think all the two fingers in The Lands between communicate with each-other and make decision on there own and only when things go terribly wrong they communicate with the Greater Will. The Greater Will is somewhere in the cosmos and communication between the stars takes a very long time, what is likely happening when Enia is losing contact with the two fingers
I think the two fingers are probably a vassal/antena of sorts and receive transmissions from Greater Will located somewhere deep in space. Most of the time they require no more guidance then already recived. When the fingers are forced to wait "1000ths of years" for the next transmission to come and aid them in the current crisis, Enia losses her resolve and tells you to burn the Erdtree.
@@painfuldiscourse5231 that’s my theory too. And with how many erd trees there are in the universe they must have to wait a very long time, hence the 2,000 years line
I think one of the worst things about the cut content in this game is how the Chalices of the Primordial Dew of the Mimic Tears got entirely removed and they had to replace the items the chalices would be in with the Fingerslaying blade and... just a Ghost Glovewart. The Implication of Both Chalices being under these Giant Corpses is that they are heavily linked to the Mimic Tears, possibly their "mothers" in some way considering you find another giant woman who is said to be the Albinauric's mother. And since Albinaurics descend from Mimic Tears in some way, the link seems to be that giant ladies= mothers of mimics/albinaurics. This would've also linked the Dragonkin to the Mimic Tears in some way since you find one guarding the Chalice, Dragonkin also being creations of the Eternal Cities.
@@hiddenshadow2105 The primordial dew is something Latenna is specifically searching for. The 2nd generation could imply many things like the Albinaurics like Latenna had children, or it could mean a new "batch" of Albinaurics birthed by some other mother albinauric. Again, the worst thing to see is how much of the Mimic Tears stuff got cut. I honestly don't know why they couldn't just have Astel hold the Fingerslaying Blade and kept the Chalices underneath the Giant Corpses, it'd had made the Mimic Tear a lot more fun to get.
That's really interesting! Is there a specific channel that's talked about that cut content? I couldn't find anything with a google search. I do think that would have made the implication much more explicit, but maybe that's why they removed it (along with the stuff saying outright that St. Trina is Miquella, as opposed to just implying it). The Eternal Cities are so fascinating, I wish we got more info about them and the Nox. The timeline is really opaque and I'm not even sure I'm 100% on board that Marika and the Numen are from the Eternal Cities. Maybe something relating the the cut Mimic content and other cut content will show up in the DLC, like how lots of cut content datamined in DS1 showed up in Artorias the Abysswalker. We can only hope.
@@TheBboySpooky There's a vid that details a cut NPC Mimic Tear called Asimi. Her entire quest is basically a run through the Eternal Cities to get these Chalices. Tbh, of all the things to give a hint at, this should've stayed in. As of right now, there's no hint at all that the Mimic Tears are derived from these Giant Corpses because of the last-minute item replacements in the chests below them. Nothing outside of their proximity to them hints at it this currently.
Small addition, you find Kindred of Rot where bodies are often buried or interned. You even see developing versions of them in Caelid Waypoint ruins and again near a cemetery in the Haligtree. Seems to imply that they're born from bodies risen up by Scarlet Rot, similar to how Guardians are people given life again when they swear a pact with the Erdtree.
Something to note about the blind mentor, is this item description, of the Blue Dancer Charm: A cloth doll depicting a dancer garbed in blue. An ancient heirloom of some sort. Raises attack power with lower equipment load. The dancer in blue represents a fairy, who in legend bestowed a flowing sword upon a blind swordsman. Blade in hand, the swordsman sealed away an ancient god - a god that was Rot itself. I’m addition, the item section of the Scorpion Dagger reads: Dagger fashioned from a great scorpion's tail, glistening with scarlet rot. A ceremonial tool used by heretics, crafted from the relic of a sealed outer god. This would seem to imply that while Rot can act as a force upon its own, that it does have an associated god to it, an avatar of sorts, that isn’t Malenia. What this means as to Malenia being goddess of rot, I am unsure. Perhaps it is similar to how Marika was a god, but a god of and under the Greater Will, a vessel. Regardless, I hope we get to hear more about this in the future. Great video as always guys, love ya’ll!
The map fragment for the Lake of Rot also says "A great lake of standing water downstream of the Ainsel River. It is said that the divine essence of an outer god is sealed away in this land," implying that the sealed god is somewhere there (likely in the Grand Cloiser?). Something I also noticed is that the statues outside of the Grand Cloister appear to be wearing the same robes as Gowry, further connecting the rot in the present with the rot in the past. I am inclined to think that, like you said, Malenia is the "Goddess of Rot" in the same way that Marika could be described as a Goddess of the Greater Will. My interpretation is that Empyreans are all able to become "gods" channeling the power/goals of an Outer God, and it is this capability which marks them as such.
@@TheBboySpooky Agree about 'Goddesses'. To me both Marika and Malenia are sort of the first and mightest anchor / proxy among mortals for their respectful Outer Powers. Marika was the first who found Elden Ring / Erdtree crucible, so she was chosen as a representative / pawn / transmitter of sort, given powers and special treatment of immortality as Empyrian, and she can push Greater Will for benefits for her lineage as well. Malenia was chosen to be the same kind of main proxy for the Rot, but probably hijacked in some way from her Empyrian status within Golden Order.
@@TheBboySpooky Ah, I forgot about the map, you’re right. And I think you’re right, there is something special to Empyreans, as they are specifically selected to succeed gods (in the case of our story, Marika).
i think the (in the background) story of elden ring is notable for like, having several other gods, of varying degrees of obscurity all kind of jockeying to place their chosen person as the god of the lands between, and impose their order, replacing the current god marika and the Golden order of the outer god Greater Will you can see a couple of these duos The god of rot and it's reluctant champion, Malenia The formless mother, outer god of blood and well, the plan appears to be to have miquella as the new god and Mohg as a sort of Elden lord equivalent Then there's some more niche cases that *may* fit the template Ranni perhaps may be trying to become a goddess, with her outer god being the dark moon (though no evidence is given that her moon is a god) The lord of frenzied flame and the possible outer god of madness (who may not exist) are an edge case Finally we have an implied outer god of death, who has not been up to much lately, but who used to use the twinbird as an envoy (maybe a god itself, maybe more like the two fingers) and may, if it's still around, be looking to bring in Godwyn as it's "first of the dead"
31:50 If the Erd Tree (and the flowers/fungi of the Scarlet Rot as well) is something that has arrived from “space,” that would make it not only a weed, but an invasive species as well. For anyone curious as to the linguistic differences between them, the two are slightly different in terms of definition, but do overlap, like a Venn diagram. Both weeds and invasive species tend to propagate very quickly, but don’t *necessarily* have to in order to be defined as either. A weed is any plant considered to be unwanted or unseemly, typically in a garden or lawn, while an invasive species is loosely defined as any kind of flora or fauna that has been introduced to an area (as opposed to being native to that area). Usually it doesn’t start actually being considered “invasive” until it has started to choke out the native species in that area. (Please keep in mind that all this info comes from someone that absolutely DOES NOT have an ecology degree, I just happen to be the child of someone who does lol.)
13:16 I think really interestingly if you then speak to the Finger Maiden at the lift that takes you to the giants area, she will get very very upset at the idea of you burning the erdtree. It seems to be that it's your finger maiden *specifically* who is onboard for this. Initially it seemed to me that she was somehow going against the fingers wishes. Given we have no way to communicate with the fingers directly, they couldn't speak out against her. However she is also (to my knowledge) the only finger maiden in game actually speaking to a set of two fingers. Do the two fingers represent some other life force in the world, similar to the ancestral deer spirit, and this is just their will being misunderstood? Or am I just too high? Food for thought! Love the video as always, I like to think sin appears in Sophie's irl classroom asking questions about reborn
was going to comment this before but forgot. just remembered now. ive encountered theconcept of world tree as world eating parasite before in web-original fiction. as an outsider cosmic force even. miyazaki and grrm read spacebattles forum confirmed.
I wonder if Miyazaki isn't a fan of The Andromeda Strain, and that wasn't some of inspiration behind the pseudo life-like characteristics of Glintstone. Awesome video, can't wait for more.
My reading on Ranni and Black Knives was that in order to get out of control of Greater Will she had to kill herself with Rune of Death (as her Destinied Death was sealed in this Rune under Malekith by Marika). She didn't want to kill herself fully but the Rune of Death couldn't be applied only partially, and somebody else had to carry the burden, so she collaborated with Black Knives so they will kill her body but the killing of the soul was shifted onto Godwyn. Black Knives might be not directed to kill specifically Godwyn by Ranni but chose him due to their own or Rykard's goals.
Or Marika's goals, after all the game makes sure to tell us of the close ties between the black knives assassins and Marika (and how probably they are all Numen)
:) thanks! We have mostly been focusing on Bloodborne, Dark Souls and Katekyo Hitman Reborn, so if those are interesting to you, we got them as well. We have more ER coming too!
Something I just thought about after watching your recent video revisiting Bloodborne's lore, is the Japanese concepts of kegare and yodomi and how important it is in that game, and how those concepts may also be part of the inspiration for Scarlet Rot (or, if the Rot was something GRRM conceptualized, it may have informed how Miyazaki depicted it). Kegare is hard to translate into English, but it is essentially impurity. Its linked to concepts of uncleanliness, unholiness, and corruption, and can be spiritual as well as physical, and is a big part of Japanese folk beliefs and Shinto. Kegare is also associated with arthropods (with centipedes being one example that Fromsoft uses in a lot of their games). Yodomi is related, and may be translated as "stagnation." From my understanding, Shinto beliefs hold that in stagnant water, the dregs collect and drop to the bottom, making the water Kegare, and that this can also birth creepy crawlies. In Shintoism, flowing water is a source of purity, and many of the rituals to cleanse kegare involve standing in running water, or especially going under a waterfall, as both are considered impure. These concepts show up in other Fromsoft games, like the Cainhurst's "vileblood" and the League's search for centipedes, the human dregs and bug people from DS3, the headless monks in Sekiro, and I believe the Pests and the Scarlet Rot are the newest iteration on this idea/concept. Notably, we find the Sage Set that Gowry wears in "Stillwater Cave," and the pests are said to be birthed by the rot ex nihilo. The Lake of Rot is itself underneath the lake of Liurnia, so it could even be that it formed naturally over timefrom the impurities of Liurnia's still waters collecting underground. I don't know whether the words Yodomi or Kegare are actually used in the Japanese text of the game when describing the rot so this could all be bunk, but still it is interesting to speculate.
I like that you both specify therea difference between the two fingers and the greater will. My 'hot take', is that the two fingers are 'vassals' because they're a species from another planet/realm that was long since conquered by the greater will. They're more akin to 'loyal soldiers' rather than actual conduits.
I know I'm posting a lot, but I'm not sure I buy that Marika and the Numen are from the Eternal Cities. Rodgier's dialogue is the only place that mentions they are connected, and I'm not sure if "scion" is meant to be taken literally here. The Numen are specifically described as being from another world while the Nox seem to be from the Lands Between. My main point of evidence here are in the items dropped by the Nox Monks, Nightmaidens, and Swordstresses. All mention that they are waiting "for the coming age of the stars. And their Lord of Night." Ranni's ending is called the Age of the Stars, and that's not the only connection she has with the Eternal Cities. Ranni is also associated with the Dark Moon, which may be similar to or the same as the black moon of Nokstella. Because of these connections, I think that the assassins were spiritual descendents of the Eternal Cities, as Ranni seems to be doing what the Nox were wanting to do. It could also be that Rodgier is misinformed. His exact dialogue is "They say..." so it's not even him stating that it is a fact he believes, just what is commonly believed. It could also be we're supposed to think the Black Knife Assassins were from the Eternal cities, until we find their armor set much later in the game in an optional area, which reveals that they were in fact, Numen close to Marika, acting as another lategame revelation that recontextualizes everything we've learned up to that point about the plot. I'm willing to be wrong about this if there's more evidence pointing at the Numen being the same as the Nox, but right now I'm a little skeptical. That's what's great about these games though, we can reach different conclusions looking at the same evidence!
On the other hand, I just found a ton of Numen Runes in the Deeproot Depths. The way I am currently reconciling this is that the Numen were indeed from another world, and possibly came to the Lands Between at the same time as the Elden Beast (that concentration of Numen Runes are held by Ant Queens near where you get the Elden Stars incantation, which talks about the Elden Beast being sent by the Greater Will as a Golden Star) and from a land the Greater Will already conquered. However, eventually they earned the ire of the Greater Will and they were forced underground and their cities covered, though how exactly the Greater Will managed to do that is unclear. Then what was left of the Numen either followed Marika and stayed loyal or stayed traitors and eventually warped into the Nox.
"I hadn't thought that far ahead" Fake gamer girl Sophie smh my head. But it is hard to live up to the powers of the loracle Sin. Jokes aside I am loving the content and energy. Thank you for this lovely stuff.
Love the video good job as always😁 by the way i was looking up older vids and a few times u play this Japanese love Song manga style ( ...sophie loves ....) at example i hope u know what i mean ... so i looking for this Song and had no luck finding it maby u can help whit the Titel or something.... its always just a few sec long in your older vids Really Hope u know whitch One i mean and help me find it .... and as always thumbs up of course love ur stuff on RUclips😙👍
in regards to what happens when scarlet rot and the erdtree meet, i think the faded erdflowers found in caelid are what happens, the scarlet rot strangles the erdtree as the erdtree does the native flora. it could be the case tho that the flowers are only faded because they are at ground zero of the caelid case of scarlet rot, a base of its power where it is strong. and that which terraforming force wins out world depend on how much territory theyve managed to claim like some kind of 4X game. something id like to look into, is how much can be pieced together of what the world was like before all these outside forces started comming in. since i havent beaten the game yet and hadnt been as enamoured with the world building as i was with demons, dark or blood. i know im a minority with this but GRRMs name being on the box really soured me to the game, it wasnt until seeing footage of people reaching more interesting looking places like caelid or the underground rivers that i decided i wanted to give the game a shot.
Does Scarlet Rot have a lasting effect on Tarnished? Scarlet Rot, The Black Flames, Dung Eater’s Seedbed Curse, and Destined Death are all kinda odd because Elden Ring has all these forces that can kill immortal beings like the gods, but it never seems to have a lasting effect on your character.
I always thought the pests were actually not born from scaroet rot because the nursery where we see pest babies is the one place in caelid with normal poison instead of scarlet rot
saying that Malenia wasn't losing to Radghan seen wrong. She just lost her arm and is reconecting it while Radghan is patiently waiting for her to finish. Is clearly he hold the superior ground and she is losing and the last attack with the scarlet rot is a last desperate attack. That in the end just got a draw and spread scarlet rot to a big area.
The Lake of Rot is in Nokstella not Nokron. The pests are not worshipping Astel (Astel isn't even there that's just the route we take to get to him) they are worshipping the Scorpion's Stinger, which deals rot and was "crafted from the relic of a sealed outer god."
HI SIN!!, Lovely!!, to your see your wonderful smiles and beautiful face. Sophie also gorgeous. Take the sentiments, it's true! Loving the yellow translucent item description/general descriptions box. Production and music NICE!
I’m not sure if it’s all thanks to the blind tutor that Malenia can contain her rot considering her armor specifies that it’s made from unalloyed gold which presumably helps with that.
Gonnalet you know you can craft scarlet arrows and bolts forgot where to find the book as i just happen into paths, deaths and getting revenge but it makes bow builds fairly viable for non pvp play
![Radagon is Marika: One, Two, Fused, or Shattered? [Elden Ring Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UYXdGKRoVMA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Radagon is Marika: One, Two, Fused, or Shattered? [Elden Ring Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![Discussing Ranni's Age of the Stars [Elden Ring Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SZ7Wb7SuP04/mqdefault.jpg)
![Bloodborne: Seven Years On [Return to Yharnam 2022]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mt-kx3GHSXI/mqdefault.jpg)
► Please don't forget to 💘Like💘 and 💘Subscribe💘 it really helps us out
Hey Sinclair. Just a heads up, the short story “The Men of Greywater Station” by GRRM is entirely about a sentient hivemind fungus which takes over a planet. I see a TON of parallels between the scarlet rot and the yellow fungus. Check it out!!!
Sophie saying that when the DLC comes out everything will be proven wrong is gold. She's been burned before. She knows we never will get answers to what the age of the deep sea really is about.
I used to think the deep was just a different name for the abyss. Such simple times.
I love your sisterly pestering dynamic so much. it's always fun to tune in. never watching reborn tho.
😊 thank you
you dont have to watch reborn tho, we watched it for u! ruclips.net/video/nebO6jwGFY4/видео.html
Wait, I thought they were a couple.
@@GREATGAIWAIN
Nah Sin's got a boyfriend who got her into souls games, which iirc is how she met Sophie
I’m glad Sophie brought up the Rileigh fight and how he uses Scarlet Rot, but I think she missed the weirdest thing about Rileigh, he uses the Scorpion’s Stinger dagger. You don’t get that weapon from him, the Scorpions Stinger is found in the Grand Cloister seemingly the object of worship of the pests there. The description is even more interesting, “A ceremonial tool used by heretics, crafted from the relics of a sealed outer god.” Why is an assassin of the Two Fingers using a heretical ceremonial tool made from a relic of a sealed outer god?
Didn’t know how to fit this in above but it’s another interesting mystery about the dagger that I have no idea where to start to figure out it’s meaning. The hilt ends in a wolf head.
The Two Fingers and the Roundtable Hold as a whole seem to be into some really shady stuff. While they offer basic healing and status effect incantations they also have stuff like Darkness, Shadow Bait and Assassins Approach. So I don't find it all that strange that someone who works for them might uses "taboo" stuff like a Scarlot Rot relic. The Fingers don't seem to care how their agents achieve their goals, just that it gets done.
Which again would lead to me the conclusion that the Two Finger's really don't know what the Greater Will wants, or can't get an answer in a time frame that makes "governing" the Golden Order simple, hence the under handed tactics.
@@GodEmperorOfShorts it’s really interesting the way the item descriptions distinguish between the stuff like cure poison and the assassin incantations. Cure poison, heal, etc. all have the description, “Incantation of the Two Finger’s faithful” and all of the assassin ones have “Incantation of the Two Finger’s servants, who once served as the assassins of the Roundtable Hold.” It’s really weird that the game is so specific with the wording of servants and faithful when they have such similar meanings. Especially when Darkness says that the assassins themselves are Tarnished who strayed from the guidance of grace and they hunt other Tarnished who strayed from grace.
I have not directly seen this content, but I'm willing to bet that the reason an assassin of the Fingers uses a holy relic of the Scarlet Rot is precisely the same reason that we are here asking why they would do it.
They are using this relic _because it makes no sense for them to do so._
If you and your friends leave the fingers behind, and then finger assassins show up and kill you with weapons obviously related to the golden order, people will begin to suspect them of being shady, and your friends will realize they are in danger too, and try to hide.
If, however, you are killed using scarlet rot by a less obvious servant of the fingers, people will assume that in turning your back, you were no longer afforded whatever protection the fingers provide, and so random scarlet rot assassins got to you for having associated with them in the first place.
@@IrvingIV that doesn't explain how he got the Scorpion's Stinger and doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it. If they were trying to hide their existence tying the assassinations together with the same method would be counterproductive even if not obviously tied to them directly and its not like the Lands Between are a safe haven where assassinations and violence were rare--especially for the tarnished who are actively persecuted according to the Two Finger incantations.
On the dagger, the one we can find in game is in the Grand Cloister, a temple within the Lake of Rot. The Lake of Rot seems to be essentially the first impact of Scarlet Rot on the lands between and the map piece says that the divine essence of an outer god is sealed there. The dagger is on an altar being worshipped by the pests and specifically states that its "A ceremonial tool used by heretics." What is and isn't heresy is seemingly tied to support for the Erdtree and Greater Will, so why is a vassal of the Greater Will sending servants out with heretical tools?r
Best lore channel out there. Thanks guys good vibes to the both of you!
Our pleasure! ty!
Loved the Solaris reference. Just finished my second playthrought the other day, and I'ts growing on me the feeling that ER is actually more of a sci-fi story that uses medieval imaginary to illustrate its ideas. And as you briefly mentioned, the ties to historical processes of colonization are really interesting as well, I wonder if for example local narratives of first contacts between american indigenous populations and western colonizers could be read under the frame of science fiction of some sorts...
If this is right, an "Age of Rot" ending feels like a missed opportunity.
Might be inevitable. The erdtree loses ground but the rot festers and grows where it is.
Professor Sophie is such a delight to the ears.
Another thread tangentially related to this I haven't seen a lot of discussion on is Gideon. He is insanely invested in Miquella and seems to know a lot more than he lets on.
When you use both secret medallions he says "But with the haligtree as it is I suppose Miquella must already be..." before apologizing and giving you Black Flame Protection (weird reward btw). When you beat/find Malenia he talks about how Mohg stole Miquella before he could finish fertilizing the haligtree with his blood before saying, "So. The Haligtree, now but a husk... How vexing that the All Knowing didn't have the full story... Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified." This dialogue is really intriguing when tied with the description of his set, "But when Gideon glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika, he shuddered in fear. At the end that should not be." The reward he gives for this information, Lord's Divine Protection, is also revealing. Lord's Divine Protection greatly raises Holy damage negation (the element that represents the Greater Will?!?) and the description says "Incantation taught to Gideon by the Two Fingers... Gideon gained true knowledge after his long exchange with the Two Fingers - discovering all had been broken long ago..."
Why are the two fingers sharing an incantation that counters the god they "serve" and is that long exchange when Gideon glimpsed into Marika's will? Why does getting confirmation that Miquella was stolen before completing the Haligtree cause Gideon to think that Marika was justified? There's so much being left unsaid that I don't really know how to begin to figure it out, before even getting into Gideon's massacre at the Albinauric Village or Seluvis and Gideon's relationship that ended over Dolores, a woman servant of Saint Trina who dresses as a man, and how that again ties back to Miquella as he is Saint Trina.
I never thought of the Erdtree as a weed, but that’s so accurate and gives me a lot to think about. The Altus Plateau is gold, almost a sickly gold, because the Erdtree’s presence is strongest there. I’m glad you touched on the hue in Altus being almost sickly. I felt that right away when I first arrived and it made exploring the place less inviting than say Liurnia or Caelid for me. It makes sense that the Erdtree’s influence is so strong there it’s almost poisoning the land with its golden aura. I never saw it at first but the evidence of the Erdtree being an invasive species is everywhere now, the Minor Erdtrees dotted throughout the land, the small golden trees with Golden Seeds at their base. Great analysis!
For completely unrelated reasons I'd taken to calling that exact shade of yellow/gold "Piss Gold" for years now, so when I got to Altus and started running around and realized everything was THAT shade of gold, I went "Yeah the tree is def evil".
In regards to the blind tutor, the guard counter talisman, warrior starting set, and the flowing curved sword all reference the same tutor, the strong attacks are very similar to waterfowl dance, also the contrast and play on words between flowing and water foul, (fowl) seems to hint at a stagnation versus flow aspect as to how she contained the rot
Yes, it's basically the themes of Sekiro (and Dark Souls trilogy for that matter) condensed in this piece of lore in Elden Ring, the flow vs stagnation.
@@WAR3600 we even have centipedes, it all adds up
Only recently found your channel and I cannot tell you how perfect it is for me. The format of Sophie explaining to a less knowledgeable player is great. And while some videos have cute visuals a lot are highly compatible with just listening to like a podcast! Gonna be binging your Elden ring stuff for a while
Yessssss! So hyped for another Elden Ring lore video! I really dig the semi-formal lecture format. The whiteboard makes me feel like I'm in Dignity City, melting into slime in real time.
Something someone discovered recently is that the FallingStar Beasts/Astel represent the two stages of the ant lion lifecycle exactly (like that’s literally what the larva and adult antlions look like), and scarlet rot is associated with the ants, which the Nox seem to have a domesticated relationship with, and clearly live near the Lake of Rot. I think the Astels/stars were definitely sent to cleanse the ants and the SR, because that’s where you tend to find the FallingStar beasts and their craters-the one in Gelmir could easily have just overshot Marais castle; the one in Sellia Crystal Tunnel makes total sense; don’t get the one in Altus (but that might be related to a different kind of putrefaction coming from Deeproot or the Sewers-the motifs of fungi, ants, antlions, pests and the yeast rot that resembles the white liquid of Deeproot are all specifically related to the decay of trees). I suspect something with the Lake of Rot is the sin the Nox of Nokron committed, or is what the Order/Erdtree needed cleared away, and also if Marika is from there, perhaps explains why Malenia is born with Scarlet Rot.
Nokstella must have engaged in a different sin against the Order/Erdtree-Crucible related worship, hence the knights and the path to Deeproot and the old tree.
Then there are dragon knights in both cities as well as ancestors with horns worshiping stags…so many things seem to intersect and bounce off each other. Layers and layers!
Scarlet Rot is so mysterious, I'm very excited to learn more about it!!
Something I noticed looking at the Fingerslayer Blade is it's actually *very* similar design-wise to the sword the Elden Beast seems to make/pull out of Marika/Radagon's corpse, they both have the same sort of torso/ribcage look
Glintstone is also parasitic (look at Crystal Bud and Glintfly, and crowns of Azul and Lusat, also Grave charms) and I think it is third entity that came from the cosmos. Themes of parasitism and assimilation are very strong in the game.
Id say glintstone is more symbiotic than parasitic.
The masters of the primordial current were nearly 100% non organic and they admired the crysyallians for something like that too.
It was a mark they tried to achieve.
@@jonnymario771 I still believe it is more parasitic, or rather, assimilating, than symbiotic: Glintstone firefly, for example, "can no longer beguile potential mates." i.e. is cannot propagate itself, i.e. new glintstone fireflies can only be created from from uncontaminated species and if all fireflies are glintstoned, for by some chance, it will be the end of the species as they won't be able to reproduce. Crown of Azul "replaced Azur's brain and skull altogether" which I don't really see as symbiotic, because he cannot really function too much in this state aside of being a seedbed for more glintstone that keeps growing through him.
Crystalians are curious example because they are a separate life(?) form with their own agency but the influence of glintstone on original inhabitants of Lands Between makes them passive, devoid of their own action and just a place to seed more glintstone. Not exactly how symbiots behave.
@@jonnymario771 Wouldn't the Erdtree also be symbiotic rather than parasitic in the same way? It confers grace and blessings on humans and other lifeforms, it's a mutually beneficial relationship. The Greater Will's influence expands in exchange for living things benefiting from the Order
@@soarel325 I cant tell, but the Erdtree gives grace to ppl.
At what cost, no idea.
@@jonnymario771 Well the Outer Gods seem to just want to spread their influence. There's not really a cost, more just that the Greater Will and the Erdtree's influence spreads
I’ve never played Elden Ring, and possibly never will, but I love these videos ❤️
I love to just believe the game characters are just chilling with you guys trying to figure out their own lore too lmao.
I could be wrong, but my interpretation of the Two Fingers vs the Golden Order is that the Two Fingers are basically like Catholic bishops. They lead the faith of the Greater Will, whose will is communicated through the Golden Order, and basically act as both spiritual advisors and watchers of special people in the realm such as the Empyreans. The Finger Readers can also kind of be though of as bishops since the movement of the Two Fingers is supposed to be difficult or impossible to understand for anyone who isn't a Finger Reader.
The Two Fingers' are the ones who actually write the will of the Greater Will for the realm to see, but the Finger Readers are the only ones who can translate those words, and I'm sure that at least at some point there were Finger Readers who twisted or outright ignored the words drawn by their respective Two Fingers to tell people to do whatever they wanted. This isn't written anywhere in the lore to my knowledge but it feels very GRRM to me. He really likes to add stuff from real world history to his stories and it's definitely true that public literacy (i.e. literacy among people who aren't merchants or nobles) across Europe was extremely limited up until the printing press was created. There were definitely corrupt priests who used the fact that people couldn't read the Bible and had to rely on their interpretations of it to line their pockets and achieve worldly power instead of strictly conveying the word of God as they read it.
It's never explicitly stated that this also has/does occurred in Elden Ring with the Finger Readers and the Two Fingers but I think it's too resonant with real life history for it not to have happened at some point. This would track with your Sophie's recollection that certain Finger Readers, bereft of Two Fingers to interpret, will read your fingers and tell you what THEY think you should do rather than what the Two Fingers says the Greater Will would want you to do.
Yeah it’s like the fingers are the bishops and the finger readers would be the bishops translators in a sense
If anybody's new to this channel and/or The Lore Meta-Game this is the best lore channel
:)
You know, Millicent's plot (specifically how the needle forestalls the rot, but doesn't actually stop it) reminds me a little bit of exspheres in Tales of Symphonia.
Exspheres were a parasitic life form that the bad guys would put on people that they would imprison and torture. The exspheres would grow stronger and stronger the more their host suffered. The hosts invariably die, but from them comes an exsphere that could be safely "equipped" and which would offer the wielder dramatically heightened abilities.
But! You find out later that a certain class of "equipped" exsphere would actually continue to eat its new host, but soooo slowly the host wouldn't notice or actually be harmed by the process. And eventually, after slowly eating enough energy from their host, the exsphere could evolve into a new, stronger lifeform.
I wonder - does the needle Gowry gives you actually stop the scarlet rot's spread, or does it merely make it eat Millicent "differently" and more slowly so they can evolve together instead of her dying?
Because in order for her to blossom, you kill her while the needle is inside her still, right? But, if you choose to defend her against her sisters, she removes the needle and then dies as a normal corpse. If this is getting close, it also explains why Malenia is SO flowery when she finally lets it out - because it's been slow-growing in her for so long.
Also, loose thought here, but scarlet rot reminds me of the protomolecule from the Expanse...
Wow! What a vastly unique, creative and engaging way to not only present thoughtful lore speculation and connections but also makes the viewer feel a part of the actual lore think tank process. I've been playing Dark Souls/Miyazaki games since Demon's Souls release...why have I not found this channel till now?? My loss, indeed. But no more!
I will be linking your channel when and where ever I can.
New sub here!
And I brought snacks!!
And now I am pleased to say that I am a Cultist!
Never thought I would ever call myself that lol
But yes, I am now a Patreon member, as well.
Will be navigating the cyber universe next to join your Discord as well.
Keep up the awesome work S&S!
Wow, thank you!
you know the lore is good when Sophie's only four sentences in and you're already confused. "I'll try to get it by the third listen," you think
Then she says something that makes your head really spin. "Sounds like a 10th-listen tidbit, there"
and that's the Snack Covenant: lore with a rich, sugary filling
ty
That pen flick when Sophie said "Hi Sin" was weirdly adorable.
i love these whiteboard videos so much 😭♥️
I absolutely love listening to your channel~ I planned on sticking to your Bloodborne and Dark Souls content at first, because I couldn’t get my fingers on a copy of Elden Ring right at the release. I didn’t want to spoil anything for myself, but it turns out the lands between are so vast: and it has such an abundance of fascinating characters and enemies…. I feel lucky to have your interpretations and explanations to listen to! The sneak peek I listened to only made me feel a bit more prepared to take in the experience. You are always so thoughtful and articulate, I’ve reached new levels of appreciation for my favorite games- all thanks to you sharing these lovely conversations! Thank you so much!
Very interesting comparison between the Scarlet Rot and how the Greater Will spread the Order throughout the world via the Erdtree. The final form of the Scarlet Rot hosts being a “scarlet valkyrie” seems to fit with what Malenia turns into, since it looks like a disease angel. I would say that’s enough reason to think it’s the third bloom.
I do think it’s unhelpful to think of the Outer Gods like they’re some sort of fleshly alien living on a planet somewhere. They’re more like metaphysical forces or manifestations of concepts.
The curved sword talisman has a blind swordsman with a scimitar on it, might be Melania’s tutor.
26:45 damn you Patches!
Sophie and ebrooitis finally meet?!?!
Also I love how these elden ring videos feel
The only class I can say I want to be in 7 days a week, keep up the great work!
Hi guys! Just coming from my first playthrough with mere 209 hours! This is how I feel about what you said so far, Sophie, after my humble rush trough the game :
Fingers seems to be literal hands of Giants. In the Moutaintops, its highly suggested that the creepy crawlers are the hands of the frozen giants, because some lack their arms, though some have their hands intact, clearly looking very 'two-fingerish', being relatively slim and long, and some of the giants are actually big enough for the Two Fingers (Three Fingers) to be their hands. Even the 'fur' covering the fingers could be reminiscent of the hairy giants own covering.
I also heard some ppl talk about how Placidusax's pose he has when we first meet him looking suspiciously similar to when the Two Fingers are communicating with the Greater Will. With its two heads raised highly towards the sky, stiff, even his Remeberance mentions him waiting for his God, whoever that might be. Theres even a detail on his hands having five fingers, its the first thing we see in the animation if I recall correctly.
Also, the Two Fingers look like they have been torn apart, if you look on its side, it has some distinct markings similar to an open wound. They could easily form a proper hand if bind together with the Three Fingers. I take it as a representation of the Greater Wills shattered power of the Lands Between, because even as a supreme being, its unable to stop us from doing whatever we please to do. The dagger you found deep down the church with Gurranq mentions five fingered hands being a gift from God.
If you read the Two Fingers Heirloom, it says that the Fingers communicate with gestures in the air, presenting, or air-drawning the runes that bind different concepts into tangible wholesome ideas for the 'simple' people, similar how the Raya Lucaria mages are preaching to demi-humans. Perhaps havig Three Fingers instead of just Two allows you to conjure even more complex runes, to bind even more complex concepts - concepts like Flaming Flame of Frenzy, or the Death Rune. Perhaps thats what let the people of Leyndell to 'hide' the Three Fingers and its heretics.
As a side note, I consider Scarlett Rot and similar to be either a virus/bacteria/nanobot/microscopic alien lifeform, Glinstone, the Giants Flame etc. included, because there's a very thin line to what IS and ISN'T 'life'. Even some crystals here on Earth behave like a living organism, or on the other hands living organisms being questionably alive (I'm looking at you, viruses!), being closer to a complex chemical if anything else. Something like those living rock-snake things around Gaols. Also the idea of using needles to ward off the Outer Gods is almost like applying a tetanus shot. Weird. It seems as if many life forms took roots in the Land Between as you mentioned, and now are just fighting over dominance. But we must distinguish betweem 'native' and 'brought-in' life.
Btw. thanks for the video, it already gave me a clearer picture about the poor denizens of rot :))
This format is so much fun!
Finally caught up with Elden Ring enough to watch all your lore without being spoilered too much 😍 great video as always!!
Hope you enjoy it!
you had me at Solaris. i love that book so much.
To my understanding, Golden Order is what Queen Marika created under the guidance of Elden Ring and Two Fingers, and it, just as ErdTree, permeated the land. After she shattered Elden Ring, the Golden Order also got shattered. Two Fingers (the proxies to Greater Will) might look at this mess and say "Ok, burn the tree down but as long as you remake the world as per _our_ command, we are ok with it". So the Golden Order is a product or a consequence of Queen Marika's rule, a re-interpretation of Greater Will through the Erdtree, but not the same as Greater Will.
I love listening to you guys as I play Elden Ring. Currently on my "Godwyn Resurrected" death prince build, having a blast. Love your content.
Hey Sophie at the 12:30-14:00 minute mark when you are talking about Enia and the blasphemy she essentially loses communication with the fingers. So she’s at that point unable to figure out what the Greater Will desires and must find another way to provide an Elden Lord. Since at this time you hold the most shards of the Elden ring, I assumed she felt some sort of duty to fulfill your command. Perhaps without the fingers there is no other way to communicate with the Greater Will. I’ve always assumed the 2 fingers belonged to beings from another world and were severed and sent to the lands between to open a communication link back to the Greater Will. We know each Demigod had their own fingers and were assigned a divine tower where their fingers resided. Perhaps the blasphemy was deemed necessary in order to fulfill the rebuilding of the Elden Ring before the complete collapse of the world. That’s my theory anyways
I think all the two fingers in The Lands between communicate with each-other and make decision on there own and only when things go terribly wrong they communicate with the Greater Will. The Greater Will is somewhere in the cosmos and communication between the stars takes a very long time, what is likely happening when Enia is losing contact with the two fingers
I think the two fingers are probably a vassal/antena of sorts and receive transmissions from Greater Will located somewhere deep in space. Most of the time they require no more guidance then already recived. When the fingers are forced to wait "1000ths of years" for the next transmission to come and aid them in the current crisis, Enia losses her resolve and tells you to burn the Erdtree.
@@painfuldiscourse5231 that’s my theory too. And with how many erd trees there are in the universe they must have to wait a very long time, hence the 2,000 years line
I always thought the fingers were just odd roots or branches
I think one of the worst things about the cut content in this game is how the Chalices of the Primordial Dew of the Mimic Tears got entirely removed and they had to replace the items the chalices would be in with the Fingerslaying blade and... just a Ghost Glovewart.
The Implication of Both Chalices being under these Giant Corpses is that they are heavily linked to the Mimic Tears, possibly their "mothers" in some way considering you find another giant woman who is said to be the Albinauric's mother. And since Albinaurics descend from Mimic Tears in some way, the link seems to be that giant ladies= mothers of mimics/albinaurics. This would've also linked the Dragonkin to the Mimic Tears in some way since you find one guarding the Chalice, Dragonkin also being creations of the Eternal Cities.
How do you fit that second generation Albinaurics are those big-headed guys in dirty chainmail with ripple weapons?
@@hiddenshadow2105 The primordial dew is something Latenna is specifically searching for. The 2nd generation could imply many things like the Albinaurics like Latenna had children, or it could mean a new "batch" of Albinaurics birthed by some other mother albinauric. Again, the worst thing to see is how much of the Mimic Tears stuff got cut. I honestly don't know why they couldn't just have Astel hold the Fingerslaying Blade and kept the Chalices underneath the Giant Corpses, it'd had made the Mimic Tear a lot more fun to get.
That's really interesting! Is there a specific channel that's talked about that cut content? I couldn't find anything with a google search. I do think that would have made the implication much more explicit, but maybe that's why they removed it (along with the stuff saying outright that St. Trina is Miquella, as opposed to just implying it). The Eternal Cities are so fascinating, I wish we got more info about them and the Nox. The timeline is really opaque and I'm not even sure I'm 100% on board that Marika and the Numen are from the Eternal Cities. Maybe something relating the the cut Mimic content and other cut content will show up in the DLC, like how lots of cut content datamined in DS1 showed up in Artorias the Abysswalker. We can only hope.
@@TheBboySpooky There's a vid that details a cut NPC Mimic Tear called Asimi. Her entire quest is basically a run through the Eternal Cities to get these Chalices. Tbh, of all the things to give a hint at, this should've stayed in. As of right now, there's no hint at all that the Mimic Tears are derived from these Giant Corpses because of the last-minute item replacements in the chests below them. Nothing outside of their proximity to them hints at it this currently.
@@BlueMagicite Oh wow I'll have to check that out! Fingers crossed it shows up in DLC (or at least something similar)
I love how the pixel art scene is still there in the bottom left corner so we dont forget
Thank you SO much for introducing me to the novel Solaris. Wow. Just wow. I’m now obsessed. Keep up the amazing vids ❤
Small addition, you find Kindred of Rot where bodies are often buried or interned. You even see developing versions of them in Caelid Waypoint ruins and again near a cemetery in the Haligtree. Seems to imply that they're born from bodies risen up by Scarlet Rot, similar to how Guardians are people given life again when they swear a pact with the Erdtree.
“… this podcast that’s gonna be redundant in three months when the dlc comes out.”
Ha ha ha. Ha.
I hope we get a Old Hunters type DLC and not ringed city type in terms of lore. Also great work ladies.
Something to note about the blind mentor, is this item description, of the Blue Dancer Charm: A cloth doll depicting a dancer garbed in blue.
An ancient heirloom of some sort.
Raises attack power with lower equipment load.
The dancer in blue represents a fairy, who in legend bestowed a flowing sword upon a blind swordsman. Blade in hand, the
swordsman sealed away an ancient god - a god that was Rot itself.
I’m addition, the item section of the Scorpion Dagger reads: Dagger fashioned from a great scorpion's tail, glistening with
scarlet rot. A ceremonial tool used by heretics, crafted from the relic of a
sealed outer god.
This would seem to imply that while Rot can act as a force upon its own, that it does have an associated god to it, an avatar of sorts, that isn’t Malenia. What this means as to Malenia being goddess of rot, I am unsure. Perhaps it is similar to how Marika was a god, but a god of and under the Greater Will, a vessel. Regardless, I hope we get to hear more about this in the future. Great video as always guys, love ya’ll!
The map fragment for the Lake of Rot also says "A great lake of standing water downstream of the Ainsel River. It is said that the divine essence of an outer god is sealed away in this land," implying that the sealed god is somewhere there (likely in the Grand Cloiser?). Something I also noticed is that the statues outside of the Grand Cloister appear to be wearing the same robes as Gowry, further connecting the rot in the present with the rot in the past.
I am inclined to think that, like you said, Malenia is the "Goddess of Rot" in the same way that Marika could be described as a Goddess of the Greater Will. My interpretation is that Empyreans are all able to become "gods" channeling the power/goals of an Outer God, and it is this capability which marks them as such.
@@TheBboySpooky Agree about 'Goddesses'. To me both Marika and Malenia are sort of the first and mightest anchor / proxy among mortals for their respectful Outer Powers. Marika was the first who found Elden Ring / Erdtree crucible, so she was chosen as a representative / pawn / transmitter of sort, given powers and special treatment of immortality as Empyrian, and she can push Greater Will for benefits for her lineage as well. Malenia was chosen to be the same kind of main proxy for the Rot, but probably hijacked in some way from her Empyrian status within Golden Order.
@@TheBboySpooky Ah, I forgot about the map, you’re right. And I think you’re right, there is something special to Empyreans, as they are specifically selected to succeed gods (in the case of our story, Marika).
i think the (in the background) story of elden ring is notable for like, having several other gods, of varying degrees of obscurity all kind of jockeying to place their chosen person as the god of the lands between, and impose their order, replacing the current god marika and the Golden order of the outer god Greater Will
you can see a couple of these duos
The god of rot and it's reluctant champion, Malenia
The formless mother, outer god of blood and well, the plan appears to be to have miquella as the new god and Mohg as a sort of Elden lord equivalent
Then there's some more niche cases that *may* fit the template
Ranni perhaps may be trying to become a goddess, with her outer god being the dark moon (though no evidence is given that her moon is a god)
The lord of frenzied flame and the possible outer god of madness (who may not exist) are an edge case
Finally we have an implied outer god of death, who has not been up to much lately, but who used to use the twinbird as an envoy (maybe a god itself, maybe more like the two fingers) and may, if it's still around, be looking to bring in Godwyn as it's "first of the dead"
This channel feels like home. 👰♀️
aw welcome!
This is criminally underrated
aw thanks!
31:50
If the Erd Tree (and the flowers/fungi of the Scarlet Rot as well) is something that has arrived from “space,” that would make it not only a weed, but an invasive species as well.
For anyone curious as to the linguistic differences between them, the two are slightly different in terms of definition, but do overlap, like a Venn diagram. Both weeds and invasive species tend to propagate very quickly, but don’t *necessarily* have to in order to be defined as either. A weed is any plant considered to be unwanted or unseemly, typically in a garden or lawn, while an invasive species is loosely defined as any kind of flora or fauna that has been introduced to an area (as opposed to being native to that area). Usually it doesn’t start actually being considered “invasive” until it has started to choke out the native species in that area. (Please keep in mind that all this info comes from someone that absolutely DOES NOT have an ecology degree, I just happen to be the child of someone who does lol.)
13:16 I think really interestingly if you then speak to the Finger Maiden at the lift that takes you to the giants area, she will get very very upset at the idea of you burning the erdtree. It seems to be that it's your finger maiden *specifically* who is onboard for this. Initially it seemed to me that she was somehow going against the fingers wishes. Given we have no way to communicate with the fingers directly, they couldn't speak out against her. However she is also (to my knowledge) the only finger maiden in game actually speaking to a set of two fingers. Do the two fingers represent some other life force in the world, similar to the ancestral deer spirit, and this is just their will being misunderstood? Or am I just too high? Food for thought! Love the video as always, I like to think sin appears in Sophie's irl classroom asking questions about reborn
That's a cool looking thumbnail...
was going to comment this before but forgot. just remembered now. ive encountered theconcept of world tree as world eating parasite before in web-original fiction. as an outsider cosmic force even. miyazaki and grrm read spacebattles forum confirmed.
Yea! More whiteboard lessons! :D I love this 😂
Killed me with the Gael part!
So I want to say, sinclair chair gives the illusion she using cat ears, great video love you girls
awww
Just finished the game a few weeks ago so excited!
I wonder if Miyazaki isn't a fan of The Andromeda Strain, and that wasn't some of inspiration behind the pseudo life-like characteristics of Glintstone. Awesome video, can't wait for more.
My reading on Ranni and Black Knives was that in order to get out of control of Greater Will she had to kill herself with Rune of Death (as her Destinied Death was sealed in this Rune under Malekith by Marika). She didn't want to kill herself fully but the Rune of Death couldn't be applied only partially, and somebody else had to carry the burden, so she collaborated with Black Knives so they will kill her body but the killing of the soul was shifted onto Godwyn. Black Knives might be not directed to kill specifically Godwyn by Ranni but chose him due to their own or Rykard's goals.
Or Marika's goals, after all the game makes sure to tell us of the close ties between the black knives assassins and Marika (and how probably they are all Numen)
Maybe Marika was called Eternal because she came from Eternal City?
Golden order->giant statues->golden robes->OLD MONK????
Who/what is Miranda, the Blighted Bloom?
This was great! Keep up the good work guys ❤
OH MY GOD THATS A GIGANTIC BABY YODA I LOVE THEM SO MUCH
ty
I only realized this channel exists from a reddit post but boy could I use videos like these to understand the game I have 300 hours in lmao.
:) thanks! We have mostly been focusing on Bloodborne, Dark Souls and Katekyo Hitman Reborn, so if those are interesting to you, we got them as well.
We have more ER coming too!
Enter the Gaelverse: Have a Gael old time
“…In 3 months when the DLC comes out” hehe I love that we all collectively thought the DLC was around the corner immediately after release
Incredible content as always 💗
Something I just thought about after watching your recent video revisiting Bloodborne's lore, is the Japanese concepts of kegare and yodomi and how important it is in that game, and how those concepts may also be part of the inspiration for Scarlet Rot (or, if the Rot was something GRRM conceptualized, it may have informed how Miyazaki depicted it).
Kegare is hard to translate into English, but it is essentially impurity. Its linked to concepts of uncleanliness, unholiness, and corruption, and can be spiritual as well as physical, and is a big part of Japanese folk beliefs and Shinto. Kegare is also associated with arthropods (with centipedes being one example that Fromsoft uses in a lot of their games). Yodomi is related, and may be translated as "stagnation." From my understanding, Shinto beliefs hold that in stagnant water, the dregs collect and drop to the bottom, making the water Kegare, and that this can also birth creepy crawlies. In Shintoism, flowing water is a source of purity, and many of the rituals to cleanse kegare involve standing in running water, or especially going under a waterfall, as both are considered impure.
These concepts show up in other Fromsoft games, like the Cainhurst's "vileblood" and the League's search for centipedes, the human dregs and bug people from DS3, the headless monks in Sekiro, and I believe the Pests and the Scarlet Rot are the newest iteration on this idea/concept. Notably, we find the Sage Set that Gowry wears in "Stillwater Cave," and the pests are said to be birthed by the rot ex nihilo. The Lake of Rot is itself underneath the lake of Liurnia, so it could even be that it formed naturally over timefrom the impurities of Liurnia's still waters collecting underground.
I don't know whether the words Yodomi or Kegare are actually used in the Japanese text of the game when describing the rot so this could all be bunk, but still it is interesting to speculate.
I like that you both specify therea difference between the two fingers and the greater will. My 'hot take', is that the two fingers are 'vassals' because they're a species from another planet/realm that was long since conquered by the greater will. They're more akin to 'loyal soldiers' rather than actual conduits.
We have a Two Fingers episode up as well if you're interested!
Can’t wait to fight the blind tutor in the dlc and get absolutely crushed by him
Lol I wonder if they are called pests purely because they irritate Millicent.
I know I'm posting a lot, but I'm not sure I buy that Marika and the Numen are from the Eternal Cities. Rodgier's dialogue is the only place that mentions they are connected, and I'm not sure if "scion" is meant to be taken literally here. The Numen are specifically described as being from another world while the Nox seem to be from the Lands Between.
My main point of evidence here are in the items dropped by the Nox Monks, Nightmaidens, and Swordstresses. All mention that they are waiting "for the coming age of the stars. And their Lord of Night." Ranni's ending is called the Age of the Stars, and that's not the only connection she has with the Eternal Cities. Ranni is also associated with the Dark Moon, which may be similar to or the same as the black moon of Nokstella. Because of these connections, I think that the assassins were spiritual descendents of the Eternal Cities, as Ranni seems to be doing what the Nox were wanting to do.
It could also be that Rodgier is misinformed. His exact dialogue is "They say..." so it's not even him stating that it is a fact he believes, just what is commonly believed. It could also be we're supposed to think the Black Knife Assassins were from the Eternal cities, until we find their armor set much later in the game in an optional area, which reveals that they were in fact, Numen close to Marika, acting as another lategame revelation that recontextualizes everything we've learned up to that point about the plot.
I'm willing to be wrong about this if there's more evidence pointing at the Numen being the same as the Nox, but right now I'm a little skeptical. That's what's great about these games though, we can reach different conclusions looking at the same evidence!
On the other hand, I just found a ton of Numen Runes in the Deeproot Depths. The way I am currently reconciling this is that the Numen were indeed from another world, and possibly came to the Lands Between at the same time as the Elden Beast (that concentration of Numen Runes are held by Ant Queens near where you get the Elden Stars incantation, which talks about the Elden Beast being sent by the Greater Will as a Golden Star) and from a land the Greater Will already conquered. However, eventually they earned the ire of the Greater Will and they were forced underground and their cities covered, though how exactly the Greater Will managed to do that is unclear. Then what was left of the Numen either followed Marika and stayed loyal or stayed traitors and eventually warped into the Nox.
"I hadn't thought that far ahead"
Fake gamer girl Sophie smh my head. But it is hard to live up to the powers of the loracle Sin.
Jokes aside I am loving the content and energy. Thank you for this lovely stuff.
lmao ty
Great video as always!
Love the video good job as always😁 by the way i was looking up older vids and a few times u play this Japanese love Song manga style ( ...sophie loves ....) at example i hope u know what i mean ... so i looking for this Song and had no luck finding it maby u can help whit the Titel or something.... its always just a few sec long in your older vids Really Hope u know whitch One i mean and help me find it .... and as always thumbs up of course love ur stuff on RUclips😙👍
is that the song? ruclips.net/video/xcFlSXK9mW8/видео.html
@@SinclairLore Yes it is 😁😁 thank u its so cool 😍😘😁👍👍
Just had to smile if i listen to it again Thanks so much🤣😁
@@d.s.4643 no prob! it shows up again in an episode i'm editing atm XD
Good video thanks for the lore!!!
in regards to what happens when scarlet rot and the erdtree meet, i think the faded erdflowers found in caelid are what happens, the scarlet rot strangles the erdtree as the erdtree does the native flora.
it could be the case tho that the flowers are only faded because they are at ground zero of the caelid case of scarlet rot, a base of its power where it is strong. and that which terraforming force wins out world depend on how much territory theyve managed to claim like some kind of 4X game.
something id like to look into, is how much can be pieced together of what the world was like before all these outside forces started comming in. since i havent beaten the game yet and hadnt been as enamoured with the world building as i was with demons, dark or blood.
i know im a minority with this but GRRMs name being on the box really soured me to the game, it wasnt until seeing footage of people reaching more interesting looking places like caelid or the underground rivers that i decided i wanted to give the game a shot.
Does Scarlet Rot have a lasting effect on Tarnished? Scarlet Rot, The Black Flames, Dung Eater’s Seedbed Curse, and Destined Death are all kinda odd because Elden Ring has all these forces that can kill immortal beings like the gods, but it never seems to have a lasting effect on your character.
I always thought the pests were actually not born from scaroet rot because the nursery where we see pest babies is the one place in caelid with normal poison instead of scarlet rot
saying that Malenia wasn't losing to Radghan seen wrong. She just lost her arm and is reconecting it while Radghan is patiently waiting for her to finish. Is clearly he hold the superior ground and she is losing and the last attack with the scarlet rot is a last desperate attack. That in the end just got a draw and spread scarlet rot to a big area.
When I heard flowing sword, I thought maybe her tutor was a Nox, like her mother(?)
The Lake of Rot is in Nokstella not Nokron. The pests are not worshipping Astel (Astel isn't even there that's just the route we take to get to him) they are worshipping the Scorpion's Stinger, which deals rot and was "crafted from the relic of a sealed outer god."
Sophie has another white board and I am thrilled
HI SIN!!, Lovely!!, to your see your wonderful smiles and beautiful face. Sophie also gorgeous. Take the sentiments, it's true! Loving the yellow translucent item description/general descriptions box. Production and music NICE!
😊 thank you
I’m not sure if it’s all thanks to the blind tutor that Malenia can contain her rot considering her armor specifies that it’s made from unalloyed gold which presumably helps with that.
Who is Viktor!? He is the head of the GLORIOUS EVOLUTION! If you'd like to learn more wait for Arcane season 2, maybe 3.
Gonnalet you know you can craft scarlet arrows and bolts forgot where to find the book as i just happen into paths, deaths and getting revenge but it makes bow builds fairly viable for non pvp play
Oh cool!
Some scarlet rot growths remind me of lichen, not only fungi or flowers.
So what is the Haligtree and why do the valkyries have to bloom there? I thought it was Miquella’s thing.
More Elden Ring lore plz!! :)
Question I cannot find the answer to is why Malenia is called Severed? Who severed what in her or for her, from what she is severed?
Ah, so Estelle is a Great One!
"The big tree is weird, it grows and reproduces, like some sort of weird tree"
Giant Evil Magic Dandelions.
Can't believe you guys would disrespect Leonard by saying Radahn only rode him because he lost his feet :( jokes aside, best souls deep dives as usual
How high can we get the content concept gang
So Scarlet Rot is kinda like the Flood from Halo
Did sinclair react to tutor because of Home Tutor Hitman Reborn?
How did u know!
Elden Ring: Tree Problems
Luv u girls, great video!