This would be pretty easy to measure. A strain gauge between the any two points you want to measure can tell you how many pounds of force are being exerted. You can imagine this like a pair of wire cutters, where your hands represent the hydraulic cylinder. It's far easier to cut a wire close to the pivot point because of the leverage. The further out you move the wire, the less pressure can be exerted and the harder it is to cut. And, just like your hands, at some point the hydraulic pump will start bypassing, and that's the maximum force that can be exerted at that point.
For a 3R series it probably doesn't matter as much, but on a lot of SCUTs weight really matters because they have low lifting capacity to start with. Every extra pound of the attachment is one less pound of material it can handle so you hit the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly.
I think this is a similar comparison: pallet forks. You could have longer or shorter blades and at the end of them you don’t get more lifting power. Just a quick analysis before my 2nd cup of coffee! Would love a grapple - have the hydraulics just not yet pulled the plug.
Usually the only time clamping force needs to be calculated is during design, modifications, or if picking something up that might be damaged when it needs to not be damaged (usually straw bails and other erosion control stuff).
I run a 72” wicked grapple on my 4720, in my opinion you need a 60” for that 3 series tractor, as far as the clamping force don’t overthink it, I’ve never had any hydraulic clamping issues or lifting issues using my grapple the last 10 years, and I push my grapple to the limits, it’s always a ballast issue first, I run 3 wheel weights on each side plus tires are full of Rimguard, as far as grapple choice it all depends on what your main application is, I use mine for hauling logs brush along with ripping out roots
It's been my life expierence that a high skill set with a tool will over shadow any percieved physical imperfections of the tool.... whether its a grapple, box blade, brush hog, etc... So.... go get cha a grapple and make that sucker dance...
Physics-wise it depends on where the cylinder attaches to the longer grapple arm. If it’s farther out than you keep similar strength, if not you lose strength.
It's all about size an hydraulic pressure. Little pieces will be hard to grip as single pieces inside of jaws. Several pieces will fill jaw an give optimum pressure around subject.
Gripping force is determined by multiple factors. Too much to go into here. But in the same way front front-end loader manufacturers provide lifting capacities, grapple manufacturers should be able to provide a gripping force rate.
I have a grapple for my JD 3032E. It is one that I bought from a local equipment dealer. The closing strength is terrible. I increased the cylinder size, but it still is anemic. I think it is because the "fingers" are too long for the design. I had a dual cylinder grapple on my skid steer that worked great. Of course, I foolishly sold it :-(
Another point is, the narrower the grapple.......the more usable lift weight you retain by the pins. A grapple's weight is net loss of lift capacity. Just something to keep in mind, by the narrowest grapple you think you can get away with is my recommendation.
I utilize the curvature of my land pride grapple to hold so I can roll the grapple back then lift . I have a B2650 Kubota I can do a lot with it but it’s a small tractor a good thing to keep in mind.
All the force you need is the amount that will hold a log and allow you to carry it. You will not likely ever have enough force to pulverize green brush and twigs, but then again, if you did you'd have to use a rake to clean up the mess.
Great topic and excellent info as usual on your channel. I’m in the market for a grapple for all around use, especially brush of all kinds. I’m looking to set up my Kubota L3400, gear box, and need your advice on a couple of things if you would have the time to respond. I need to get the plumbing done on her for the extra function up front, but looking for what would be the most useful, a joystick that is a switch activated diverted type where you get one function at a time with the grapple or one that is capable of loader operation and controlling the grapple? My other question was about the design of the grapple itself. Is a grapple with a longer bottom job more useful for lifting logs and holding them or is the pinch of the jaw going to hold the logs firmly enough to buck up the log itself? Thanks for any info, and from your subscribers too, and I really love those mini dump trucks you have. I wish I had one of those too. Take care and happy holidays to you.
And then we have Root Rake vs Flat Bottom grapples, single lid vs duel lid grapple to add to the mix...... Next Sept if WWIII dont start, I'll be pricing a complete 3rd function set-up on Root Rake grapple with single lid for my CK3510, I like a tight pinch on a small log and brush.............
If the longer equals more weight, that can be a detriment for smaller tractors. With small tractors bigger is not better. If you got a big tractor with lift capacity to spare, go with the longer grapple.
Nobody ask for it….. but you can do everything a grapple can do with pallet forks & a landscape rake, actually better and you have two attachments for 1/2 the total price of just a grapple. The grapple also robs lifting capacity from the loader on the compact tractors. They are really NICE.. but just more of a one trick pony for me.
Where your. Thoughts are right, I think you said it wrong, you said more clamping power on the tip no the closer to the pivot points the more clamping power
I have a question on the same subject? If anyone can help. Please bear with me…. When I first got my tractor. (Kubota L 3560) I knew was still learning and I bought a grapple that the guy told me weight 500lbs. come to find out it weighs 800lbs. It is very similar to the iron craft root graple. It a TMG brand. I still use it just need a lot of rear ballast and then I can not lift as much as I would like. I am debating about going with the ironcraft compact grapple rake or the precision mini. Ok question I know they are different “style” grapples. The one I have and the ones I am looking at buying. But what one is better for working in the woods and moving logs and debris? Thanks and sorry for the length
I have an everything attachments wicked 55 root rake grapple on a John deer 3038 e and I think it does the best that that tractor is capable of doing. I fire wood log with it and push brash with it . Just seems to be the right tool for me.
This would be pretty easy to measure. A strain gauge between the any two points you want to measure can tell you how many pounds of force are being exerted. You can imagine this like a pair of wire cutters, where your hands represent the hydraulic cylinder. It's far easier to cut a wire close to the pivot point because of the leverage. The further out you move the wire, the less pressure can be exerted and the harder it is to cut. And, just like your hands, at some point the hydraulic pump will start bypassing, and that's the maximum force that can be exerted at that point.
GREAT Video! You must get the load as far back as possible, you don't want to nose dive into the ground with your compact tractor!!!? 😮😅😅😊
For a 3R series it probably doesn't matter as much, but on a lot of SCUTs weight really matters because they have low lifting capacity to start with. Every extra pound of the attachment is one less pound of material it can handle so you hit the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly.
I think this is a similar comparison: pallet forks. You could have longer or shorter blades and at the end of them you don’t get more lifting power. Just a quick analysis before my 2nd cup of coffee! Would love a grapple - have the hydraulics just not yet pulled the plug.
You will not regret buying a grapple! Tim in northern TN
Love the hoodie and hat, a banner year for sure
Speaking of 3046R, I have Bora wheel spacers for sale for that tractor. 5 inch, mint, never used
Usually the only time clamping force needs to be calculated is during design, modifications, or if picking something up that might be damaged when it needs to not be damaged (usually straw bails and other erosion control stuff).
I run a 72” wicked grapple on my 4720, in my opinion you need a 60” for that 3 series tractor, as far as the clamping force don’t overthink it, I’ve never had any hydraulic clamping issues or lifting issues using my grapple the last 10 years, and I push my grapple to the limits, it’s always a ballast issue first, I run 3 wheel weights on each side plus tires are full of Rimguard, as far as grapple choice it all depends on what your main application is, I use mine for hauling logs brush along with ripping out roots
I think jaw opening size is more important than length. If a jaw won’t open very wide, it can limit what you can grab.
What would be more or equal a concern is the weight of the grapple. No sense grabbing something if you can't pick it up.
It's been my life expierence that a high skill set with a tool will over shadow any percieved physical imperfections of the tool.... whether its a grapple, box blade, brush hog, etc...
So.... go get cha a grapple and make that sucker dance...
Physics-wise it depends on where the cylinder attaches to the longer grapple arm. If it’s farther out than you keep similar strength, if not you lose strength.
It's all about size an hydraulic pressure. Little pieces will be hard to grip as single pieces inside of jaws. Several pieces will fill jaw an give optimum pressure around subject.
Gripping force is determined by multiple factors. Too much to go into here. But in the same way front front-end loader manufacturers provide lifting capacities, grapple manufacturers should be able to provide a gripping force rate.
I have a grapple for my JD 3032E. It is one that I bought from a local equipment dealer. The closing strength is terrible. I increased the cylinder size, but it still is anemic. I think it is because the "fingers" are too long for the design. I had a dual cylinder grapple on my skid steer that worked great. Of course, I foolishly sold it :-(
Another point is, the narrower the grapple.......the more usable lift weight you retain by the pins. A grapple's weight is net loss of lift capacity. Just something to keep in mind, by the narrowest grapple you think you can get away with is my recommendation.
I utilize the curvature of my land pride grapple to hold so I can roll the grapple back then lift . I have a B2650 Kubota I can do a lot with it but it’s a small tractor a good thing to keep in mind.
I have a B2650. How wide is your grapple and what would you recommend for the B2650?
@@jd1602155 I have a SGC 0660 land pride it’s a good grapple , it gets the job done
All the force you need is the amount that will hold a log and allow you to carry it. You will not likely ever have enough force to pulverize green brush and twigs, but then again, if you did you'd have to use a rake to clean up the mess.
Great topic and excellent info as usual on your channel. I’m in the market for a grapple for all around use, especially brush of all kinds. I’m looking to set up my Kubota L3400, gear box, and need your advice on a couple of things if you would have the time to respond.
I need to get the plumbing done on her for the extra function up front, but looking for what would be the most useful, a joystick that is a switch activated diverted type where you get one function at a time with the grapple or one that is capable of loader operation and controlling the grapple? My other question was about the design of the grapple itself. Is a grapple with a longer bottom job more useful for lifting logs and holding them or is the pinch of the jaw going to hold the logs firmly enough to buck up the log itself?
Thanks for any info, and from your subscribers too, and I really love those mini dump trucks you have. I wish I had one of those too.
Take care and happy holidays to you.
And then we have Root Rake vs Flat Bottom grapples, single lid vs duel lid grapple to add to the mix......
Next Sept if WWIII dont start, I'll be pricing a complete 3rd function set-up on Root Rake grapple with single lid for my CK3510, I like a tight pinch on a small log and brush.............
If the longer equals more weight, that can be a detriment for smaller tractors. With small tractors bigger is not better. If you got a big tractor with lift capacity to spare, go with the longer grapple.
Nobody ask for it….. but you can do everything a grapple can do with pallet forks & a landscape rake, actually better and you have two attachments for 1/2 the total price of just a grapple. The grapple also robs lifting capacity from the loader on the compact tractors. They are really NICE.. but just more of a one trick pony for me.
I have zero interest in a grapple....I just use pallet forks for most stuff I would use a grapple for.
Where your. Thoughts are right, I think you said it wrong, you said more clamping power on the tip no the closer to the pivot points the more clamping power
Closer to the base of the jaws or pivot point has more clamping power 👍
I have a question on the same subject? If anyone can help. Please bear with me….
When I first got my tractor. (Kubota L 3560) I knew was still learning and I bought a grapple that the guy told me weight 500lbs. come to find out it weighs 800lbs. It is very similar to the iron craft root graple. It a TMG brand. I still use it just need a lot of rear ballast and then I can not lift as much as I would like. I am debating about going with the ironcraft compact grapple rake or the precision mini.
Ok question
I know they are different “style” grapples. The one I have and the ones I am looking at buying. But what one is better for working in the woods and moving logs and debris?
Thanks and sorry for the length
I have an everything attachments wicked 55 root rake grapple on a John deer 3038 e and I think it does the best that that tractor is capable of doing. I fire wood log with it and push brash with it . Just seems to be the right tool for me.
Wondering which type of grapple would be best for grabbing layers of anorobic hay and manure that has a tendency to just roll up.
No offense, but can you go back to showing how things work. The sitting and talking is getting old.
Probably to do somewhat with the Colder weather outside