I recently sold off some equipment and handed my wife (ebay seller) 3 SM57s and she asked why do you have so many of these. I took them back at that moment. That was when I realized I still needed them all.
The grill really makes the difference. It cuts off the treble a lot sooner and its ball shape induces a dip in the presence region (the distance to the capsule is the same for all angles) that will almost never improve the sound. Therefore I consider the the SM57 to be the better microphone, too for almost all occasions. I guess this shape problem is the reason why so many modern stage vocal microphones deviate from this geometry, take for example the AKD D5 which I consider vastly superior. It is an example of what today's technology can achieve, and for a decent price tag BTW. @@SlyHikari03
You make some really good points. The SM58 has been around since 1966; a ton of companies have taken the dynamic design and done great things with it since then. Modern mics sound brighter, have better rejection and are just as durable. I think the point your missing about the 58 is it's ubiquitous and easy for most musicians to start recording with. While a professional has access to Neumanns and any boutique company they like, the 58 is a great reliable, modest sounding microphone for a beginner in the studio. Most beginners won't have any acoustic treatment making condensers a bad choice and they won't have a strong enough preamp for the SM7b. I like to tell these folks to use the microphone they probably already own; I've definitely found one or two 58s in the bottom of a cable box before. It's a passable vocal, guitar amp mic and even sounds great in the middle of a drum kit ("wurst" technique). Without distractions like too much gear/options beginners can focus on their song craft and performance, and leave the fidelity to the professionals. I'm actually working on a video/song this very moment that uses just a single 58 on every source. I'll send it your way once it's finished. Great video!
You brought up some good points and I actually kind of agree with you in the sense that I don't think the SM58 is a mic to run away from. It still sounds great despite being such an old unit. What I would like to add though is that the SE V7 is in the same price range as the SM58 and in live settings with a band, the feedback reduction is noticeable even for an aspiring music producer like me
I retired my Shure SM58 almost 20 years ago for a simple Sennheiser e835 which opened up massive clarity in my vocal sound. My SM58 sounds muffled to me now. In my much younger years, I let our lead singer use the SM58, and I opted for the SM57, not only for clarity but for safety as the wiring in this club on Ft. Lewis Army bass NCO club was quite dangerous. We used to have a female singer as an additional primary lead singer. One night as she came on stage to join us at the beginning of the gig, she touched the other singer/guitarist only to complete the circuit and enjoyed a huge blue arc straight to her lips. OUCH!!! She threw her SM78 to the ground and quickly ran off stage to the green room. We had to let our support crew tend to her, as we had to switch gears quickly and finish the set ourselves until had she recovered enough to join us on the next sets. That was a lesson I learned to keep using an SM57 for the electrical isolation alone. But that was a long time ago in the late '70s early '80s when my twin brother (drummer) and me were a mere 17 years old. The tech has changed so bloody much since the stone age.
Another thing to keep in mind: The SM57s and SM58s being manufactured today (in China) do not sound as good as the US-made ones from the 1970s and 1980s. The older ones sound slightly clearer and more transparent. It's not a huge difference, but noticeable if you A/B them. That is why Eric Johnson (before he got past the worst of his OCD) would, when touring, insist that his amp cabs be mic'd up with his own set of vintage SM57s.
It's good to hear somebody with the same views on the SM58 - As a north of England next door neighbour (staleybridge) who now lives and operates a music shop in Albany, Western Australia, I agree 100% with your sentiments and the amount of people who walk into the shop digging heels in on buying an outdated microphone is astounding!
Not surprising, though, because people like and want what they know or what they hear and see countless people tell drill into their skulls about staples. SM58's sounds great with my voice and I've used them live for over 20 years. Then I tried other mics. At first, it was strange because I was used to the sound of a SM58. The first one I ever tried outside of the SM58 was an Audix OM-7 and I bought it off of a lot of reviews and research (in Trinidad nobody carries anything other than Shure mics and even then they're a bit of a hassle to come by. So I couldn't try it before I bought it. I really just hoped for the best lol). I found the quality of sound miles above the SM58 and that was just in the bandroom. I live in Florida now so mic accessibility isn't really a problem anymore, for the most part). Over time, trying out other mics, I discovered that even though the 58 is a staple and very reliable, it's also muddy and lacks clarity compared to a lot of microphones today. I don't hate it but I do think there are way better mics out there. Even the Beta 58A is a huge step up, which I plan on getting at least one for my arsenal at some point.
I’m watching this and thinking, “yeah, yup. Uh huh.” I look over and what’s on the desk with a cable ready to go when I want to quickly catch something? A 57. Preach.
its nice to know i'm not the only one who prefers other mics to the sm58 on stage. i can sometimes even pick out that someone is using a 58 fairly easily its a fairly fizzy sounding mic compared to the alternatives. the top end isn't very good and rejection could be better. the source signal is very important so using the best mic possible is always a good thing.
100% correct , It's the exact same thing . Elliott Smith placed a Shure SM58 directly in front of the guitar's sound hole about 1 foot away for his first two albums . He also used the SM57 on those albums , both are great mics .
@@geespar1 Nope. They both use the same Unidyne-3 capsule. The slightly thicker body of the 58 at the capsule is down to the extra shock mounting to reduce handling noise. The slightly brighter sound of the 57 is due to the lack of an integral windscreen. If you put a windscreen on the 57, sonically you have a 58.
My understanding is the SM57 and SM58 have the same dynamic capsule. So, if you're in the studio and are short of an SM57 (to mic up a guitar cab or maybe a snare) and there happens to be an SM58 available, that should work just about as well. But for stage vocal applications, YES, there are indeed better choices available, and at the same price point. (Examples would be AKG D5 or Sennheiser e835 or Audix OM2.) And at twice the cost, there are all kinds of wonderful choices.
SM58 is a great live vocal mic. SM57 is a great live and studio instrument mic. The SM58 is still a great live mic for heavy use, especially in a band where the lead singer likes to slam the mic into the floor every night. I have 3 SM58s I bought back in 1998 for £69 each. They were heavily (and the shields have the dents to prove it) gigged for over 10 years. When I stopped playing live music I put them away and forgot about them. I found them again about 6 months ago and decided to see if they still worked and sounded good. To my surprise they did. I still probably wouldn't record with it but I would happily gig with them again, even though I've long got my money's worth.
Merry calendar change for next week! Hope you're enjoying these talks (and not being the angry commenting old gits with the angry essays!) Have a good one :)
Nice vid, Adam. I really dislike the SM58, though it was indeed good value for money in the 80s when I started singing front in a rock band. I started using a condenser Audio Technica in 2007 and always ever used condenser mics since. Currently a Sennheiser but I'll give the SE7 a go!
In my experience from 500cap and smaller venues (mostly metal) 58 works better than a beta58 and usually has less feedback (this is probably because the monitors were ringed out with a 58 not a beta) and cuts through the drums and guitars better on a small stage, for some vocals I sometimes even use a beta57, which cuts through even more. A regular 58 might even be more versatile, I’ve mic’d a whole band with 58s before.
As a fellow person with glasses, I know that it’s sometimes hard working with lights. Either way I’d suggest trying out different set ups, because rn your eyes are being blocked by the reflection on the eyeglasses.
Good video, thank you. SM57/58 have never been "the best," and informed, experienced musicians and engineers know this. However, they absolutely excel in the areas of versatility, reliability, and value. I've been playing live for forty years, and it's the very rare situation where I can't achieve excellent results with a box full of these "hammers." lol
I got myself a Sontronics STC20 my first year of Uni, cause it was the only condenser microphone the uni had that never broke and always gave a good result.
I've been recording and playing live for 50 years. I have both mics but still like the 57 for the studio more and the 58 for live vocals. I used the 57 (with it's pop filter) on my vocal for the last few months and something was missing so I popped the 58 back on the stand and there it was! I bet it's because I've been singing through it since I was a teenager and perhaps I've adjusted the way I sing to what the 58 wants to hear - I don't know. I just know that I like the 58 on my voice better on stage than the 57. It comes down to "that's what I wanna hear". On another note ... the SM58 sounds excellent on a floor tom - no really!
Insightful, necessary video - I'm almost 60 and old school so admittedly am stubborn at times but I also realize that it's much more important to be open-minded. Going ahead and trying something newer might surprise you!
I bought a beta 58 and it is a far superior mic to a regular 58 for live vocals. I had to use a normal one at a gig and i couldn't hear myself, it sounded muffled and made me push my voice which made it hurt. The 58 is just an out dated sub par mic imo. The 57 is great for guitar cabs and alot of things still.
I play in metal band and never had an issue with the sm57 or 58 on stage. Every show I've played had 57s and 58s on stage. was literally the only choice.
Because they are indestructible and it is expected if the vocalist has a mic pref they will bring their own (virtually every pro vocalist has 'their mic') and take care of it.
My biggest massive issue with the SMB58 is having to lower the volume everything in my daw to an almost nothing in order to barely hear vocals with their volume All the way up
Yip. Pretty much whatever sounds good on your voice is the best for YOU. Every mic is not for every voice, as much as people always like to say the SM58 sounds good with almost everyone. That's simply not true. People have just gotten used to them because it's THE most popular live mic in the industry. But just because something is a staple doesn't mean it's the best for everyone in that vocation.
I love the SM 58. It’s a great mic for all around and it’s virtually bomb prof. I use it as a great back up mic. I don’t use drum kits or guitar live, only for sampling.
Great, now let's do a live band test and compare the bleed amount. I'm in a process of buying 3 vocals mics for live setting and I would really like to see a comparison.
I can tell you from 25+ years of performing/recording/producing/running live sound and even 15+ years working in music retail where I have tested every mic you can think of in live settings that the Shure SM58 is NOT the best. It's not the best by far. The "best" is usually subjective, but rarely was the SM58 been the "best" sounding mic for a client, or customer when testing them out against other mics. I used to allow my customers to take home 3 vocal mics to try out at their rehearsal and return the 2 they didn't like. (obviously, pre pandemic haha) they rarely kept the SM58, but I ALWAYS encouraged them to buy an SM58 as well, even if it wasn't their top choice. Why would I do this? Because 99.9% of the venues a band will be performing at, be it a bar, club, casino, concert hall etc, will have Shure SM58 microphones as the house mics. So any professional singer just NEEDS to know how to perform with one. Microphones are instruments, and they are all a bit different. Obviously, you can always bring your own mic, and a majority of the people running sound won't mind. But, the sound person may not have experience with whatever mic you brought, or more commonly, may not care so they may just leave the same standard settings on the mixing board used for a 58, and end up making you sound like trash anyway. It's a challenge, it truly is. Until you have your own sound person, and you can be certain that they will be able to put the sound through the PA that properly represents you to the audience, it is the safer bet to just use an SM58.
If you want the most control of bleed live, you'll need to get supercardioid dynamic mics. Supercardioid dynamic mics are GREAT at rejecting loud noise from other instruments on stage and will hone in on your voice more. But with supercardioid mics, your mic technique has to be immaculate. Your mouth has to pretty much stay in line with the mic and be no further than 6 inches away, thereabouts, as the polar pattern (sound pickup pattern) is rather narrow. If you move around a lot while you sing, your sound is going to drop off significantly, very quickly, with a supercardioid microphone. If you're a more "loose" singer who waves your head all over the place and move around a lot when you perform, then the choice to go with would be cardioid dynamic mics as the polar pattern is significantly wider and a lot more forgiving to this way of performing. They aren't as good at rejecting noise as supercardioid mics are but they'll certainly get the job done.
I've got a whole bucket-load of different microphones. I had a mic that I really liked singing through, but it didn't work well for my friend. SM58 was very impressive for its time, but at the present time, it's better suited for a stand up comedian than a rock band.
the backdrop to your video looks like a mix between a suburban family's prop set from a 90s sitcom and a second grade classroom in somebody's basement lol
For general vocals on stage I remain happy with SM58s - however, for my own vocals (I front a band) was converted a few years ago to using a Beyer Dynamic V70 which is night and day clearer and with a higher output than the SM58. It also has a much tighter cardiod pattern which means feedback is pretty much never an issue. Agree on SM57s though, incredibly versatile mics, I have several of them. Interesting video, thanks for posting.
Great discussion - SM58 beta great mic for stage, have used a Beyerdynamic M88TG also nice on a stage. Recently purchase a Neumann KMS 105 but haven't used on a stage, only in my home project studio (very warm and clear - but different animal altogether). Would love a Shure condenser mic like a Beta 87A
I haven't really thought about it but I always use the SM57 over the SM58 without ever trying the SM58. One of my favorite records is "white pony" by deftones and the SM58 was used for recording the vocals (I actually think every record they did with terry date was with a SM58), but still I have never tried the SM58 other than as my talkback mic. :)
Yeah I love that album so much, but out of context the vocals really don’t sound great! It’s only because Chino was truly on fire that we just kind of accept it…
Tottaly agree... I do live sound every day, sometimes up to 3 gigs a day and some recordings here and there... I personlly hate the sm58 on most vocals, if the vocal is the least bit harsh you really have to fight the mic and work against it, and i actually use an sm57 on some harsh vocals for live gigs and I did the a/b on soundcheks, the 57 isn't a great live vocal mic but sound better than the 58 for most cases and the souns rejecton is much better for quiet singers, just use a windscreen as a pop filter and it works wonders
I've tried to use a SM7b as a vocal mic and it just does NOT work for my voice, however the Super 55 deluxe does. Is there a more modern alternative for that mic? I should mention I'm a heavy metal/hard rock vocalist.
They can sound pretty good. But EQ is almost universally too broad to catch resonances so you end up dealing with squealing feedback at gig level if you want the singer to have any clarity
I really couldnt agree more. I kinda hate the SM58, not for the mic it is but for the mic people make it out to be. It frustrates me no end seeing it recommended as a first mic for beginners when the likes of the sE V7 or AKG P5 or so many other mics are so much more versatile and cheaper. My main vocal dynamics are a pair of Sennheiser e935 and the AKG D5 and they are just on another level, even to the Beta58 imo. BTW i'm really enjoying the DynIR capture of those tower speakers you mention - theyre incredible for re-amping with a lo-fi flavour. Loving the Golem, among others, too. I'd REALLY love some more horn captures
What are some good recommendations for good podcast microphones in a multiple podcast microphone setting? ... sE V7? Anything by Lewitt? (Supercardioid/Hypercardioid vs. Cardioid?)
sE Have just started making the Dynacaster mics which are probably exactly what youre looking for, there are a few different ones. I've not had a chance to check them out yet but i'll be contacting them to see what the deal is
Is the recorded audio fuzzy? Or just when you are tracking. I find that my SM57 causes interference only on my headphones when I am tracking, but the recorded audio is clean.
I agree for Live Use I'd use a beta over an sm58 1000>1. But take the basket off and stick it on a guitar cab or snare and I still like, slightly less aggressive than a 57. So apples to apples (using the mic on the same source) I'd say it isnt much worse than a 57 and a 57 sucks on live vocals (though some singers like it for some reason) for intended use yeah, I mean imagine going further and trying to use live vocal mics from the 60s for a Slipknot gig at a stadium....probs not gonna work well.
I suppose that’s fair- but a guitar cab blasting away, you can choose a mic based on preference because isolation isn’t a factor there. Also the guitar mic shouldn’t move during a show and won’t be pointed at the wedges!
@@adamsteelproducer Yeah any mic on guitar cabs works isolation wise, but acoustic guitar, micing that with an sm57 (or any other instrument that isn't high in spl) live is painful, basically for live use outside of guitar cab mic and snares, they both kinda suck.
I hate sm58 too but I see the merits. It has a very distinct thick undetailed sound which makes it forgiving. My take is it makes dodgy singers sound manageable but holds the good ones down.
@@adamsteelproducer my point is that you don’t like the 58 but you like the 57 even though the 58 is just a 57 with a round grille. I think the 58 is just slightly more versatile in that you can take the grille off and then you have a 57.
Then you’ve entirely missed the point. It’s not about how it looks, it’s about microphones sold for specific applications and why. You can’t please everyone…
The SM58 was the choice of road show engineers simply because it is nearly indestructible.Then all of the kids saw their favorite bands using them and thought that it was because of their high quality sound. Now it seems that they have a cult following simply because they became so popular. The sound has always been low quality but, as you stated in the video, when your ears get used to the garbage and you refuse to try anything else, well. Like you, I do own one SM58. Mine is wireless. Purchased for singers in live sound situations back in the early 90s. Like a timex watch, it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Oh, and it sounds terrible.
i hate 58's. i was playing at a church years ago, and they replaced the 58's with some sennheisers and it completely changed everything for me. never used one since. i really like the sennies, but also the SE electronics v7. there are many many many other mics that destroy the 58. the 58 needs to die imo
This video is comical to watch knowing that they are, in fact, the exact same internals 100% replicated, and the only difference is the ball grille. Talk about placebo effect, lol. And the fact that you can take the Grille off of the 58 and it becomes a 57, which makes the 58 more versatile than the 57, with better use for vocals with the grille. And for instruments without.
Tell me Adam, is everyone over 60 an old git or just those who disagree with you. I have no opinion on the subject of the SM 58 and was completely open to hearing your opinion, however since you feel that someone my age is a git. I don’t really want to waste any more time watching your channel. If you’re going use your content to air your presumption that older people are all the same, inflexible, unwilling to listen or learn, then I’m going to assume that I probably won’t want to listen to your immature prejudices.
The SM57 is not bulletproof. I stopped using them in the early 80s on drums because when a drummer hits one the spring flies off and they self destruct, that's why I changed to Sennheiser MD 421s. Sorry, but you're way off topic talking about how sound changed the use of microphones, and your reference to smaller stage amps. Smaller stage amps came in during the late 70s and early 80s but it's a personal choice. Of course we soundos didn't like too much blown off stage, like with double Marshall stacks etc, but it's a personal choice of the performer -- nothing to do with dynamic microphone technology, which hasn't changed since that era. In fact all Shure really did with their Podcast/Broadcast SM7B was take the transformer out. The cardiod pattern is what rejects spill and feedback, and it hasn't changed much either -- and that goes for the SE V7, which is a supercardiod. Also you don't normally EQ to take out frequencies you don't like -- in fact it's probably the biggest mistake that amateur soundos make. 99% of EQ is to take out room resonances or frequencies prone to feedback. I've never had a major problem with spill, which you seem to be obsessed with. And if you think I'm precious about the SM58 you'd be wrong, but it's a great mic and still in current use because of its flat response and great feedback rejection and durability, but for recording vocals I use an AKG 330 BT for personal reasons.
@@adamsteelproducer I have no idea who Billie Eilish is, but I am much older than you and have seen so much technology replaced by the modern mobile phone.
Once you start talking about how the SM58 might have be good for its time, but technology has moved on, you have to answer the question, well then, why on bloody earth are you talking about SM57s (or SM56s, for that matter), at all, when the clearly superior in every way Beta 56A, Beta 57A, and Beta 58A all exist and have done so for over 30 years, already? In every comparison test I've ever heard, the Beta series microphones blow the SM series out of the water, yet, here we are, in 2022, and people are still mucking about with SM57s. Every time there's an article on microphones for guitar or drums, the Beta 57A is almost never mentioned, while the SM57 features ubiquitously, even though it is demonstrably and immediately obviously inferior.
I refer later in the video to how the only applications we use the 57 on these days are so loud that they negate issues like spill, and at that point it’s just about sonic preference rather than performance (unlike the usual vocal application of the 58).
I think one thing to add to this that corresponds with how gear has changed over the years, the output impedance of an SM58 doesn't align with the input impedance of new mixing consoles/preamps. I read an article back in the early 00s that really talked about why the SM57 (this article was 57 specific) and how the change in impedance of modern day mic preamps has caused the mic to sound quite a bit different. I've never been able to test this myself, but it's always seemed to make sense. But you're totally right, the SM58 is rarely the best option, especially when you consider the Audix OM series, SE (like you mentioned) Sennheiser makes good stuff. There are pros to the SM58 though that should be taken into account, and why I believe that even if it's not your favorite mic, any professional live performing singer needs to know how to use one. They need to know how to manipulate it's proximity effect, how to handle it to prevent feedback all that stuff. Why? Because you WILL be in a situation where you HAVE to sing into one, and it'll probably happen more often than you'd like. You look across any bar, club, casino, concert hall in the US, the odds are the in house vocal mics are Shure SM58. You ask ANY live sound engineer at any venue across the US and ask them if they know how to set their mixer/PA up to sound good using SM58 mics, and they will all say "yes." Why? Because they use them every single day. Obviously, most of them will be okay with you bringing your own mic, but the odds of the sound person being experienced with an Audix OM6 or any alternative you may have brought, is pretty slim. And believe it or not, I've actually played in venues that didn't allow you to bring your own mics. The Viper Room in LA, for instance, (may have changed now, but back when I played there) the sound guy working there forced us to use their in house mics and guitar cabinets, because according to him they had contracts with Marshall and Shure and they had to use those products on stage. Was he telling the truth? I don't know. Was he an asshole? Yes. Was I allowed to use my Mesa/Boogie cab, and was my singer allowed to use his Sennheiser mic? No. Plus, as Adam said, the Shure SM58 is essentially unbreakable. I have 4, my newest one is 20+ years old, they've been on tours with me all over, and done hundreds of gigs. They've been dropped, thrown, submerged in all sorts of liquids and they still work like new. It really depends on what you want from your vocal mic, but the 58 isn't a complete waste of time even if it's not the best sounding mic. NOW, if we are talking in a studio...no. Just no. haha. I've used an SM58 in the studio twice in my life. The first time, I was in college. I was a music tech major and my college had a recording studio where my band tracked an album. The studio was great, but the mic closet wasn't really setup for a rock band, so needless to say there wasn't a legit kick mic there. After experimenting with whatever mic we had available, I threw a 58 in the bass drum and EQ'd the living shit out of it. It ended up sounding pretty okay actually, but it took some seriously dramatic EQ moves. haha. The second time I used it as a room mic of a drum recording where we were going to mangle and distort it so the mic really didn't matter. haha.
I recently sold off some equipment and handed my wife (ebay seller) 3 SM57s and she asked why do you have so many of these. I took them back at that moment. That was when I realized I still needed them all.
Fun fact. The 58 and 57 are the same mic with different casings.
57's are great for amps and mids. 58's are still great for vocals.
Yup.
Found this out by taking the grill off a 58.
The grill really makes the difference. It cuts off the treble a lot sooner and its ball shape induces a dip in the presence region (the distance to the capsule is the same for all angles) that will almost never improve the sound. Therefore I consider the the SM57 to be the better microphone, too for almost all occasions. I guess this shape problem is the reason why so many modern stage vocal microphones deviate from this geometry, take for example the AKD D5 which I consider vastly superior. It is an example of what today's technology can achieve, and for a decent price tag BTW. @@SlyHikari03
And theyre essentially the same mic as the SM7, but with a transformer.
You make some really good points. The SM58 has been around since 1966; a ton of companies have taken the dynamic design and done great things with it since then. Modern mics sound brighter, have better rejection and are just as durable. I think the point your missing about the 58 is it's ubiquitous and easy for most musicians to start recording with. While a professional has access to Neumanns and any boutique company they like, the 58 is a great reliable, modest sounding microphone for a beginner in the studio. Most beginners won't have any acoustic treatment making condensers a bad choice and they won't have a strong enough preamp for the SM7b. I like to tell these folks to use the microphone they probably already own; I've definitely found one or two 58s in the bottom of a cable box before. It's a passable vocal, guitar amp mic and even sounds great in the middle of a drum kit ("wurst" technique). Without distractions like too much gear/options beginners can focus on their song craft and performance, and leave the fidelity to the professionals. I'm actually working on a video/song this very moment that uses just a single 58 on every source. I'll send it your way once it's finished. Great video!
Reve DID make a great video about doing creative work with just this one mic. Check it out.
You brought up some good points and I actually kind of agree with you in the sense that I don't think the SM58 is a mic to run away from. It still sounds great despite being such an old unit. What I would like to add though is that the SE V7 is in the same price range as the SM58 and in live settings with a band, the feedback reduction is noticeable even for an aspiring music producer like me
I retired my Shure SM58 almost 20 years ago for a simple Sennheiser e835 which opened up massive clarity in my vocal sound. My SM58 sounds muffled to me now. In my much younger years, I let our lead singer use the SM58, and I opted for the SM57, not only for clarity but for safety as the wiring in this club on Ft. Lewis Army bass NCO club was quite dangerous. We used to have a female singer as an additional primary lead singer. One night as she came on stage to join us at the beginning of the gig, she touched the other singer/guitarist only to complete the circuit and enjoyed a huge blue arc straight to her lips. OUCH!!! She threw her SM78 to the ground and quickly ran off stage to the green room. We had to let our support crew tend to her, as we had to switch gears quickly and finish the set ourselves until had she recovered enough to join us on the next sets. That was a lesson I learned to keep using an SM57 for the electrical isolation alone. But that was a long time ago in the late '70s early '80s when my twin brother (drummer) and me were a mere 17 years old. The tech has changed so bloody much since the stone age.
Another thing to keep in mind: The SM57s and SM58s being manufactured today (in China) do not sound as good as the US-made ones from the 1970s and 1980s. The older ones sound slightly clearer and more transparent. It's not a huge difference, but noticeable if you A/B them. That is why Eric Johnson (before he got past the worst of his OCD) would, when touring, insist that his amp cabs be mic'd up with his own set of vintage SM57s.
It's good to hear somebody with the same views on the SM58 - As a north of England next door neighbour (staleybridge) who now lives and operates a music shop in Albany, Western Australia, I agree 100% with your sentiments and the amount of people who walk into the shop digging heels in on buying an outdated microphone is astounding!
Not surprising, though, because people like and want what they know or what they hear and see countless people tell drill into their skulls about staples. SM58's sounds great with my voice and I've used them live for over 20 years. Then I tried other mics. At first, it was strange because I was used to the sound of a SM58. The first one I ever tried outside of the SM58 was an Audix OM-7 and I bought it off of a lot of reviews and research (in Trinidad nobody carries anything other than Shure mics and even then they're a bit of a hassle to come by. So I couldn't try it before I bought it. I really just hoped for the best lol). I found the quality of sound miles above the SM58 and that was just in the bandroom. I live in Florida now so mic accessibility isn't really a problem anymore, for the most part). Over time, trying out other mics, I discovered that even though the 58 is a staple and very reliable, it's also muddy and lacks clarity compared to a lot of microphones today. I don't hate it but I do think there are way better mics out there. Even the Beta 58A is a huge step up, which I plan on getting at least one for my arsenal at some point.
Thanks. The best mic for my vocals is the one in another room. I think the technique is called Lord Have Mercy.
I’m watching this and thinking, “yeah, yup. Uh huh.” I look over and what’s on the desk with a cable ready to go when I want to quickly catch something? A 57. Preach.
its nice to know i'm not the only one who prefers other mics to the sm58 on stage. i can sometimes even pick out that someone is using a 58 fairly easily its a fairly fizzy sounding mic compared to the alternatives. the top end isn't very good and rejection could be better. the source signal is very important so using the best mic possible is always a good thing.
I thought Shure was quoted somewhere stating that the two mics were identical except for the round windscreen?
And? Their applications are generally accepted to be quite different, that’s the focus of the video
buy 5 SM57’s and a pack of clown noses. now you have 5 SM57’s and 5 SM58’s
100% correct , It's the exact same thing . Elliott Smith placed a Shure SM58 directly in front of the guitar's sound hole about 1 foot away for his first two albums . He also used the SM57 on those albums , both are great mics .
I’m pretty sure the capsule is smaller diameter on the 57, hence why the body of it (I’m not talking about the top) is thinner
@@geespar1 Nope. They both use the same Unidyne-3 capsule. The slightly thicker body of the 58 at the capsule is down to the extra shock mounting to reduce handling noise. The slightly brighter sound of the 57 is due to the lack of an integral windscreen. If you put a windscreen on the 57, sonically you have a 58.
My understanding is the SM57 and SM58 have the same dynamic capsule. So, if you're in the studio and are short of an SM57 (to mic up a guitar cab or maybe a snare) and there happens to be an SM58 available, that should work just about as well. But for stage vocal applications, YES, there are indeed better choices available, and at the same price point. (Examples would be AKG D5 or Sennheiser e835 or Audix OM2.) And at twice the cost, there are all kinds of wonderful choices.
SM58 is a great live vocal mic. SM57 is a great live and studio instrument mic.
The SM58 is still a great live mic for heavy use, especially in a band where the lead singer likes to slam the mic into the floor every night. I have 3 SM58s I bought back in 1998 for £69 each. They were heavily (and the shields have the dents to prove it) gigged for over 10 years. When I stopped playing live music I put them away and forgot about them. I found them again about 6 months ago and decided to see if they still worked and sounded good. To my surprise they did. I still probably wouldn't record with it but I would happily gig with them again, even though I've long got my money's worth.
They are ideal for sounding like you are using an SM58
@@mycosys LOL.
Merry calendar change for next week! Hope you're enjoying these talks (and not being the angry commenting old gits with the angry essays!)
Have a good one :)
Nice vid, Adam. I really dislike the SM58, though it was indeed good value for money in the 80s when I started singing front in a rock band. I started using a condenser Audio Technica in 2007 and always ever used condenser mics since. Currently a Sennheiser but I'll give the SE7 a go!
SM58 is actually a great studio mic when used with a great preamp , just take the wind cover off and put a pop filter in front.
In my experience from 500cap and smaller venues (mostly metal) 58 works better than a beta58 and usually has less feedback (this is probably because the monitors were ringed out with a 58 not a beta) and cuts through the drums and guitars better on a small stage, for some vocals I sometimes even use a beta57, which cuts through even more. A regular 58 might even be more versatile, I’ve mic’d a whole band with 58s before.
As a fellow person with glasses, I know that it’s sometimes hard working with lights. Either way I’d suggest trying out different set ups, because rn your eyes are being blocked by the reflection on the eyeglasses.
Good video, thank you.
SM57/58 have never been "the best," and informed, experienced musicians and engineers know this. However, they absolutely excel in the areas of versatility, reliability, and value. I've been playing live for forty years, and it's the very rare situation where I can't achieve excellent results with a box full of these "hammers." lol
I got myself a Sontronics STC20 my first year of Uni, cause it was the only condenser microphone the uni had that never broke and always gave a good result.
I've been recording and playing live for 50 years. I have both mics but still like the 57 for the studio more and the 58 for live vocals. I used the 57 (with it's pop filter) on my vocal for the last few months and something was missing so I popped the 58 back on the stand and there it was! I bet it's because I've been singing through it since I was a teenager and perhaps I've adjusted the way I sing to what the 58 wants to hear - I don't know. I just know that I like the 58 on my voice better on stage than the 57. It comes down to "that's what I wanna hear". On another note ... the SM58 sounds excellent on a floor tom - no really!
try the Sennheiser e835 or the SE V7
Great video great view playing guitar 🎸 great sounds great audio
Happy Christmas
Insightful, necessary video - I'm almost 60 and old school so admittedly am stubborn at times but I also realize that it's much more important to be open-minded. Going ahead and trying something newer might surprise you!
awesome update! your original was dope! pushed all the right buttons haha
I bought a beta 58 and it is a far superior mic to a regular 58 for live vocals. I had to use a normal one at a gig and i couldn't hear myself, it sounded muffled and made me push my voice which made it hurt. The 58 is just an out dated sub par mic imo. The 57 is great for guitar cabs and alot of things still.
Super dureable mic, great for vocals, really not a fan for sax though! 57 & 58 are the same mic, 57 sans the metal ball.
I play in metal band and never had an issue with the sm57 or 58 on stage. Every show I've played had 57s and 58s on stage. was literally the only choice.
Because they are indestructible and it is expected if the vocalist has a mic pref they will bring their own (virtually every pro vocalist has 'their mic') and take care of it.
@@pablolocles9382 just no. get an sE V7 if you cant afford better. & learn to sing.
My biggest massive issue with the SMB58 is having to lower the volume everything in my daw to an almost nothing in order to barely hear vocals with their volume All the way up
Sounds like a problem with your preamps, not the mic.
The idea of any mic being the best is fuckin' silly as shit to me.
Correct, it’s like trying to argue about which amp or guitar is better, it’s all about sound and character.
Yip. Pretty much whatever sounds good on your voice is the best for YOU. Every mic is not for every voice, as much as people always like to say the SM58 sounds good with almost everyone. That's simply not true. People have just gotten used to them because it's THE most popular live mic in the industry. But just because something is a staple doesn't mean it's the best for everyone in that vocation.
I love the SM 58. It’s a great mic for all around and it’s virtually bomb prof. I use it as a great back up mic. I don’t use drum kits or guitar live, only for sampling.
Totally agree! 👏
Great, now let's do a live band test and compare the bleed amount. I'm in a process of buying 3 vocals mics for live setting and I would really like to see a comparison.
I can tell you from 25+ years of performing/recording/producing/running live sound and even 15+ years working in music retail where I have tested every mic you can think of in live settings that the Shure SM58 is NOT the best. It's not the best by far. The "best" is usually subjective, but rarely was the SM58 been the "best" sounding mic for a client, or customer when testing them out against other mics. I used to allow my customers to take home 3 vocal mics to try out at their rehearsal and return the 2 they didn't like. (obviously, pre pandemic haha) they rarely kept the SM58, but I ALWAYS encouraged them to buy an SM58 as well, even if it wasn't their top choice. Why would I do this? Because 99.9% of the venues a band will be performing at, be it a bar, club, casino, concert hall etc, will have Shure SM58 microphones as the house mics. So any professional singer just NEEDS to know how to perform with one. Microphones are instruments, and they are all a bit different.
Obviously, you can always bring your own mic, and a majority of the people running sound won't mind. But, the sound person may not have experience with whatever mic you brought, or more commonly, may not care so they may just leave the same standard settings on the mixing board used for a 58, and end up making you sound like trash anyway. It's a challenge, it truly is. Until you have your own sound person, and you can be certain that they will be able to put the sound through the PA that properly represents you to the audience, it is the safer bet to just use an SM58.
If you want the most control of bleed live, you'll need to get supercardioid dynamic mics. Supercardioid dynamic mics are GREAT at rejecting loud noise from other instruments on stage and will hone in on your voice more. But with supercardioid mics, your mic technique has to be immaculate. Your mouth has to pretty much stay in line with the mic and be no further than 6 inches away, thereabouts, as the polar pattern (sound pickup pattern) is rather narrow. If you move around a lot while you sing, your sound is going to drop off significantly, very quickly, with a supercardioid microphone. If you're a more "loose" singer who waves your head all over the place and move around a lot when you perform, then the choice to go with would be cardioid dynamic mics as the polar pattern is significantly wider and a lot more forgiving to this way of performing. They aren't as good at rejecting noise as supercardioid mics are but they'll certainly get the job done.
I've got a whole bucket-load of different microphones. I had a mic that I really liked singing through, but it didn't work well for my friend. SM58 was very impressive for its time, but at the present time, it's better suited for a stand up comedian than a rock band.
Can you please share which microphone did you use on this video?
Your voice sounds excellent.
the backdrop to your video looks like a mix between a suburban family's prop set from a 90s sitcom and a second grade classroom in somebody's basement lol
For general vocals on stage I remain happy with SM58s - however, for my own vocals (I front a band) was converted a few years ago to using a Beyer Dynamic V70 which is night and day clearer and with a higher output than the SM58. It also has a much tighter cardiod pattern which means feedback is pretty much never an issue. Agree on SM57s though, incredibly versatile mics, I have several of them. Interesting video, thanks for posting.
Great discussion - SM58 beta great mic for stage, have used a Beyerdynamic M88TG also nice on a stage. Recently purchase a Neumann KMS 105 but haven't used on a stage, only in my home project studio (very warm and clear - but different animal altogether). Would love a Shure condenser mic like a Beta 87A
they're the same capsule.
So if I have a 58 and take the grill off I get a 57
Basically.......yes.
I haven't really thought about it but I always use the SM57 over the SM58 without ever trying the SM58. One of my favorite records is "white pony" by deftones and the SM58 was used for recording the vocals (I actually think every record they did with terry date was with a SM58), but still I have never tried the SM58 other than as my talkback mic. :)
Yeah I love that album so much, but out of context the vocals really don’t sound great! It’s only because Chino was truly on fire that we just kind of accept it…
@@adamsteelproducer Yeah agree with you on that one. :) But on the other side the drums on that record! I still think they sound amazing!
Tottaly agree... I do live sound every day, sometimes up to 3 gigs a day and some recordings here and there... I personlly hate the sm58 on most vocals, if the vocal is the least bit harsh you really have to fight the mic and work against it, and i actually use an sm57 on some harsh vocals for live gigs and I did the a/b on soundcheks, the 57 isn't a great live vocal mic but sound better than the 58 for most cases and the souns rejecton is much better for quiet singers, just use a windscreen as a pop filter and it works wonders
I've tried to use a SM7b as a vocal mic and it just does NOT work for my voice, however the Super 55 deluxe does. Is there a more modern alternative for that mic? I should mention I'm a heavy metal/hard rock vocalist.
I would try an AKG D5 and just shelf off the highs about 10k, that would pretty closely match the response and be FAR more usable.
I think if you slap an eq on them they sound pretty good in my opinion
They can sound pretty good. But EQ is almost universally too broad to catch resonances so you end up dealing with squealing feedback at gig level if you want the singer to have any clarity
I really couldnt agree more. I kinda hate the SM58, not for the mic it is but for the mic people make it out to be.
It frustrates me no end seeing it recommended as a first mic for beginners when the likes of the sE V7 or AKG P5 or so many other mics are so much more versatile and cheaper.
My main vocal dynamics are a pair of Sennheiser e935 and the AKG D5 and they are just on another level, even to the Beta58 imo.
BTW i'm really enjoying the DynIR capture of those tower speakers you mention - theyre incredible for re-amping with a lo-fi flavour. Loving the Golem, among others, too. I'd REALLY love some more horn captures
Luv my Sennheiser e835 for exactly the same reason. 👍😊
Drum toms sounds better with the 58 (grill off) than the 57.
SE v7 is the answer for live sound.
Population: Singer! ... nice. Happy New Year!
Its funny that they're the same mic but people have different opinions on it. I prefer the 58 but a lot of audio people like the 57 so much more
What are some good recommendations for good podcast microphones in a multiple podcast microphone setting? ... sE V7? Anything by Lewitt? (Supercardioid/Hypercardioid vs. Cardioid?)
sE Have just started making the Dynacaster mics which are probably exactly what youre looking for, there are a few different ones. I've not had a chance to check them out yet but i'll be contacting them to see what the deal is
You made a good point.
Yes! Agreed.
My sm57 has fuzzy noises when I record with it. Idk if that’s normal. Do I need to get the pop filter to stop that from happening?
Sounds like it’s broken. Or the cable is broken or the preamp is broken. Not normal
@@adamsteelproducer I only just got it 2 days ago. Disappointed
Is the recorded audio fuzzy? Or just when you are tracking. I find that my SM57 causes interference only on my headphones when I am tracking, but the recorded audio is clean.
I agree for Live Use I'd use a beta over an sm58 1000>1. But take the basket off and stick it on a guitar cab or snare and I still like, slightly less aggressive than a 57. So apples to apples (using the mic on the same source) I'd say it isnt much worse than a 57 and a 57 sucks on live vocals (though some singers like it for some reason) for intended use yeah, I mean imagine going further and trying to use live vocal mics from the 60s for a Slipknot gig at a stadium....probs not gonna work well.
I suppose that’s fair- but a guitar cab blasting away, you can choose a mic based on preference because isolation isn’t a factor there. Also the guitar mic shouldn’t move during a show and won’t be pointed at the wedges!
@@adamsteelproducer Yeah any mic on guitar cabs works isolation wise, but acoustic guitar, micing that with an sm57 (or any other instrument that isn't high in spl) live is painful, basically for live use outside of guitar cab mic and snares, they both kinda suck.
I hate sm58 too but I see the merits. It has a very distinct thick undetailed sound which makes it forgiving. My take is it makes dodgy singers sound manageable but holds the good ones down.
Ok, a Behringer xm8500 it is from now. No more sm58
The beta58 costs 80% more than the sm58 in online stores of my country. 'Almost the same price'
Take the grille off the 58 then you have a 57?
Technically accurate, completely misses the point of the video though
@@adamsteelproducer my point is that you don’t like the 58 but you like the 57 even though the 58 is just a 57 with a round grille. I think the 58 is just slightly more versatile in that you can take the grille off and then you have a 57.
Then you’ve entirely missed the point. It’s not about how it looks, it’s about microphones sold for specific applications and why.
You can’t please everyone…
Agree. I prefer SM58 and not the beta. They are very similar to the SM57.
The SM58 was the choice of road show engineers simply because it is nearly indestructible.Then all of the kids saw their favorite bands using them and thought that it was because of their high quality sound. Now it seems that they have a cult following simply because they became so popular. The sound has always been low quality but, as you stated in the video, when your ears get used to the garbage and you refuse to try anything else, well.
Like you, I do own one SM58. Mine is wireless. Purchased for singers in live sound situations back in the early 90s. Like a timex watch, it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Oh, and it sounds terrible.
i hate 58's. i was playing at a church years ago, and they replaced the 58's with some sennheisers and it completely changed everything for me. never used one since. i really like the sennies, but also the SE electronics v7. there are many many many other mics that destroy the 58. the 58 needs to die imo
This video is comical to watch knowing that they are, in fact, the exact same internals 100% replicated, and the only difference is the ball grille. Talk about placebo effect, lol.
And the fact that you can take the Grille off of the 58 and it becomes a 57, which makes the 58 more versatile than the 57, with better use for vocals with the grille. And for instruments without.
Which completely misses the point.
Tell me Adam, is everyone over 60 an old git or just those who disagree with you. I have no opinion on the subject of the SM 58 and was completely open to hearing your opinion, however since you feel that someone my age is a git. I don’t really want to waste any more time watching your channel.
If you’re going use your content to air your presumption that older people are all the same, inflexible, unwilling to listen or learn, then I’m going to assume that I probably won’t want to listen to your immature prejudices.
Brillant
The SM57 is not bulletproof. I stopped using them in the early 80s on drums because when a drummer hits one the spring flies off and they self destruct, that's why I changed to Sennheiser MD 421s. Sorry, but you're way off topic talking about how sound changed the use of microphones, and your reference to smaller stage amps. Smaller stage amps came in during the late 70s and early 80s but it's a personal choice. Of course we soundos didn't like too much blown off stage, like with double Marshall stacks etc, but it's a personal choice of the performer -- nothing to do with dynamic microphone technology, which hasn't changed since that era. In fact all Shure really did with their Podcast/Broadcast SM7B was take the transformer out. The cardiod pattern is what rejects spill and feedback, and it hasn't changed much either -- and that goes for the SE V7, which is a supercardiod. Also you don't normally EQ to take out frequencies you don't like -- in fact it's probably the biggest mistake that amateur soundos make. 99% of EQ is to take out room resonances or frequencies prone to feedback. I've never had a major problem with spill, which you seem to be obsessed with. And if you think I'm precious about the SM58 you'd be wrong, but it's a great mic and still in current use because of its flat response and great feedback rejection and durability, but for recording vocals I use an AKG 330 BT for personal reasons.
That mic flip at 1:17 is bound to become this video's most replayed moment
You certainly have a lot of gear.
I guess so, that’s 20 years of collecting for you…
iphone mic is all you need. Let antiquated technology die.
Tell me the last time you went to see someone like Billie Eilish or whoever and the stage was full of iPhone mics.
@@adamsteelproducer I have no idea who Billie Eilish is, but I am much older than you and have seen so much technology replaced by the modern mobile phone.
Same😂
Harsh and not nice on sax
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Blah blah, blah blah!
😆😂😂😆
Once you start talking about how the SM58 might have be good for its time, but technology has moved on, you have to answer the question, well then, why on bloody earth are you talking about SM57s (or SM56s, for that matter), at all, when the clearly superior in every way Beta 56A, Beta 57A, and Beta 58A all exist and have done so for over 30 years, already? In every comparison test I've ever heard, the Beta series microphones blow the SM series out of the water, yet, here we are, in 2022, and people are still mucking about with SM57s. Every time there's an article on microphones for guitar or drums, the Beta 57A is almost never mentioned, while the SM57 features ubiquitously, even though it is demonstrably and immediately obviously inferior.
I refer later in the video to how the only applications we use the 57 on these days are so loud that they negate issues like spill, and at that point it’s just about sonic preference rather than performance (unlike the usual vocal application of the 58).
How irritating🤦♂️
the filter you have in the intro is terible
No, I'm not going to make a comment ... ;-)
Me neither....
I think one thing to add to this that corresponds with how gear has changed over the years, the output impedance of an SM58 doesn't align with the input impedance of new mixing consoles/preamps. I read an article back in the early 00s that really talked about why the SM57 (this article was 57 specific) and how the change in impedance of modern day mic preamps has caused the mic to sound quite a bit different. I've never been able to test this myself, but it's always seemed to make sense.
But you're totally right, the SM58 is rarely the best option, especially when you consider the Audix OM series, SE (like you mentioned) Sennheiser makes good stuff.
There are pros to the SM58 though that should be taken into account, and why I believe that even if it's not your favorite mic, any professional live performing singer needs to know how to use one. They need to know how to manipulate it's proximity effect, how to handle it to prevent feedback all that stuff. Why? Because you WILL be in a situation where you HAVE to sing into one, and it'll probably happen more often than you'd like. You look across any bar, club, casino, concert hall in the US, the odds are the in house vocal mics are Shure SM58. You ask ANY live sound engineer at any venue across the US and ask them if they know how to set their mixer/PA up to sound good using SM58 mics, and they will all say "yes." Why? Because they use them every single day. Obviously, most of them will be okay with you bringing your own mic, but the odds of the sound person being experienced with an Audix OM6 or any alternative you may have brought, is pretty slim. And believe it or not, I've actually played in venues that didn't allow you to bring your own mics. The Viper Room in LA, for instance, (may have changed now, but back when I played there) the sound guy working there forced us to use their in house mics and guitar cabinets, because according to him they had contracts with Marshall and Shure and they had to use those products on stage. Was he telling the truth? I don't know. Was he an asshole? Yes. Was I allowed to use my Mesa/Boogie cab, and was my singer allowed to use his Sennheiser mic? No.
Plus, as Adam said, the Shure SM58 is essentially unbreakable. I have 4, my newest one is 20+ years old, they've been on tours with me all over, and done hundreds of gigs. They've been dropped, thrown, submerged in all sorts of liquids and they still work like new.
It really depends on what you want from your vocal mic, but the 58 isn't a complete waste of time even if it's not the best sounding mic.
NOW, if we are talking in a studio...no. Just no. haha. I've used an SM58 in the studio twice in my life. The first time, I was in college. I was a music tech major and my college had a recording studio where my band tracked an album. The studio was great, but the mic closet wasn't really setup for a rock band, so needless to say there wasn't a legit kick mic there. After experimenting with whatever mic we had available, I threw a 58 in the bass drum and EQ'd the living shit out of it. It ended up sounding pretty okay actually, but it took some seriously dramatic EQ moves. haha. The second time I used it as a room mic of a drum recording where we were going to mangle and distort it so the mic really didn't matter. haha.