At $200 I think it's a solid manual espresso entry. The Flair 58x clocks in at $400 to get access to the standard 58mm basket size and doubles the cost of the CayCay. If the portfilter quirks can be ironed out I think it's actually great at that price point for pressure profiling manual machines. The ergonomics of the plunger could be improved with a new larger knob and maybe an additional bearing.
@@danymeeuwissen5973 Oh of course. Light roasts want that extra temp stability and the Flair 58 handles it super well. Still, it's a much more expensive product when compared to this one. At $200 it's more comparable to the Flair Pro 2 in price that includes a gauge but not a 58mm basket.
there are less expensive Flair models than the 58. The Classic is the one Spro mentioned. It's price is under $200 and it has some advantages over the CayCay
Great review. This is EXACTLY the kind of machine that speaks to me: small, elemental, innovative, no bells and whistles, effective, inexpensive. I particularly appreciated you showing what the average user would struggle with, like the basket getting stuck on the group. That's the sort of thing that would drive me crazy and have me thinking it was something I was doing wrong. I agree about the plunger too, why so flimsy? Thanks!
Thank you for the video. An interesting addition to the entry point space. The portability and storability look good plus points. I wish Max all the best with the trails and headaches that will come with scaling this towards commercial success - keep going !
I was looking at the other end of it. I'd like to upgrade my Handpresso but this doesn't feel like an upgrade. The Handpresso is pumped up and maintains (some) pressure on the puck for the duration of the pull. This unit needs to either store pressure in a similar manner or have a long enough stroke to deliver a double in a single motion. The Handpresso has similar thermal issues and this unit's 58mm portafilter (when working correctly) could be an improvement, but the multiple stroke pump is a step backwards. This feels more like a lateral move. It doesn't have fewer shortcomings, just different ones.
The separation of brew and boiler is a cool idea for home espresso because we didnt produce a lot of shots in a row like cafés. It makes temp changes easier than with boiler machines. But id like to see active group heating like Flair does. That would make me playing around with temp and pressure and grinds to find the sweet spot of the bean. (Disclaimer) im a bezzera strega user and like the forgiving nature of this system a lot. But i think ill get myself a Flair58 to test out other things than spring loaded lever.
Thermostability has always been a big issue with manual devices. I'd agree that a lot of machines are overkill for home users in the sense that we indeed don't pull shots all day continuously. It's why I never understood why so many home owners go for E61 grouphead machines because they require an hour at least for good temperature stability (= reflected on your electricity bill). But the issue with these kind of manual devices is waterwaste. Because you take precious filtered water to heat up the device in order to have the least heat-waste possible. That water is basically not used, just thrown away.
Nice super simple solution! I like that it is 'silent' and does not produce any extra waste, like CO2 canisters. Compared to same price lower end electric pump machines, the convenience of 'pressure profiling' and 'pre-infusion' etc. should not be underestimated. For just around 200 USD!
I’ll always stick to hand lever at home. One thing is I’m the only one drinking coffee and second I can control the flow the whole time. Plus my flair takes up no counter space because in 5 seconds I break it down every time
For sure, counter space in a lot of circumstances is a huge issue. When I had my Flair pro being able to break it down and the nice carrying case was a solid benefit.
great review, thank you. $200 for a manual espresso machine is tempting. However, as you said, there are other $200 manual machines like the Flair that give the CayCay a run for the money.
This is an interesting machine, I am looking to buy an espresso machine for while. With my budget its come down to Flair Pro2, Gaggia Espresso and Rok Robot. I hope this thing avaliable in my country soon.
All solid options. The benefit of the manuals is zero to little maintenance and repairs if needed are like an o-ring. But I’ve been impressed with the Gaggia’s shot quality in the past with a cheap pressure drop spring.
As an older person with arthritis I don’t like the pump handle. I’d rather have a broader head on it. And the wiggle room on that rod could lead to breakage to some part of the machine. Otherwise I like the size and simplicity. Especially since for travelers like myself. And yes, I’ve really looked into the Flairs and all the other more portable espresso machines out there.
seems like there's alot of attempts by different companies to hit this price point and some just trying to make manual in next price bracket, i haven't been happy with any I've tried for one reason or another ( to much plastic, not great work flow, to tall etc) ...someone will get it right. i dont see having a external hot water source or preheat as that big inconvenience to work flow its just the design, control of flow and quality of construction if possible with cost of materials at this price
Yeah I’ve tried a lot of them over the years and not one hits all the points as good as the average pump or spring lever, but this one is very simple, but I still think the Kazak Rota II is a favorite, but the price point is pretty heavy.
The Cay is a cool concept minus the name for those of us in the US. I got recently a CO2 expressi maker from AliExpress but the broke. But the concept of not needing a cartridges is very appealing especially on a budget and environmental view
I feel like there’s more content on RUclips about dialing in on pump based machines, so I feel like something like a Breville machine is best to start with, but as you said, it’s expensive.
Yeah I think it’s got a good amount of promise. If they made a few changes, maybe offered it without the scale as an option, I could see it being worth close to the Flair with the 58mm portafilter.
It is. Honestly surprised with how it all works so simply, and pretty effortlessly. I can see it being a solid starter machine once he dials in the manufacturing a bit and reduces the price a bit.
@@Sprometheus Agreed. I was never happy with my Flair experience until I got my Niche grinder. Having a decent grinder makes all the difference when dealing with manual machines. Let alone any machine
just fyi , at 4:43 to about 4:47 the captions dont match the actual voiced lines (perhaps they match what was one the script). this can make it harder for hard of hearing viewers, as they might rely on a combination of spoken words and captions to understand. (noticing now this issue persisted throughout the whole video)
I still got it, I’m just sort of playing musical grinders at the moment, and now in the process of remodeling the studio, but you’ll see a full review of it in the near-ish future.
Thank you for the review Sprometheus. I really appreciate you taking the time to film and give it a considered insightful review. Thank you!
Very much looking forward to a revised model in the near future🙏
Happy to do it! Thanks for reaching out and allowing me the opportunity to give it a go! Best of luck and curious to see how it evolves!
The Cay Cay coffee press is a single Cay short of a marketing desister😅
This is true. But considering it’s from the UK I’m not sure if that problematic group has as much prominence there.
So that's why these youtubers don't like when the roast is dark
lol I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of that when I heard the name. Rather unfortunate choice for them
At $200 I think it's a solid manual espresso entry. The Flair 58x clocks in at $400 to get access to the standard 58mm basket size and doubles the cost of the CayCay. If the portfilter quirks can be ironed out I think it's actually great at that price point for pressure profiling manual machines. The ergonomics of the plunger could be improved with a new larger knob and maybe an additional bearing.
Yes, but you can upgrade the 58x to a 58 by just adding the power supply and controller, which is very welcome when brewing light roasts.
@@danymeeuwissen5973 Oh of course. Light roasts want that extra temp stability and the Flair 58 handles it super well. Still, it's a much more expensive product when compared to this one. At $200 it's more comparable to the Flair Pro 2 in price that includes a gauge but not a 58mm basket.
there are less expensive Flair models than the 58. The Classic is the one Spro mentioned. It's price is under $200 and it has some advantages over the CayCay
My thoughts exactly. Not many manual machines are doing 58mm at this price point. I'm very intrigued.
Great review. This is EXACTLY the kind of machine that speaks to me: small, elemental, innovative, no bells and whistles, effective, inexpensive. I particularly appreciated you showing what the average user would struggle with, like the basket getting stuck on the group. That's the sort of thing that would drive me crazy and have me thinking it was something I was doing wrong. I agree about the plunger too, why so flimsy? Thanks!
Thank you for the video. An interesting addition to the entry point space. The portability and storability look good plus points. I wish Max all the best with the trails and headaches that will come with scaling this towards commercial success - keep going !
So it's an at-home Handpresso with a 58mm basket? OK, I'll buy it!!
That’s it. It’s about as simple as it gets.
I was looking at the other end of it. I'd like to upgrade my Handpresso but this doesn't feel like an upgrade. The Handpresso is pumped up and maintains (some) pressure on the puck for the duration of the pull. This unit needs to either store pressure in a similar manner or have a long enough stroke to deliver a double in a single motion.
The Handpresso has similar thermal issues and this unit's 58mm portafilter (when working correctly) could be an improvement, but the multiple stroke pump is a step backwards.
This feels more like a lateral move. It doesn't have fewer shortcomings, just different ones.
The value you can get at "entry level" is pretty incredible! Very cool.
Very promising. I’ll absolutely pick up a revised second model whenever it releases.
The separation of brew and boiler is a cool idea for home espresso because we didnt produce a lot of shots in a row like cafés. It makes temp changes easier than with boiler machines. But id like to see active group heating like Flair does. That would make me playing around with temp and pressure and grinds to find the sweet spot of the bean. (Disclaimer) im a bezzera strega user and like the forgiving nature of this system a lot. But i think ill get myself a Flair58 to test out other things than spring loaded lever.
Thermostability has always been a big issue with manual devices. I'd agree that a lot of machines are overkill for home users in the sense that we indeed don't pull shots all day continuously. It's why I never understood why so many home owners go for E61 grouphead machines because they require an hour at least for good temperature stability (= reflected on your electricity bill). But the issue with these kind of manual devices is waterwaste. Because you take precious filtered water to heat up the device in order to have the least heat-waste possible. That water is basically not used, just thrown away.
Nice super simple solution! I like that it is 'silent' and does not produce any extra waste, like CO2 canisters. Compared to same price lower end electric pump machines, the convenience of 'pressure profiling' and 'pre-infusion' etc. should not be underestimated. For just around 200 USD!
Meh, Cafelat Robot works just fine and is built like a tank. I'll stick with it.
I’ll always stick to hand lever at home. One thing is I’m the only one drinking coffee and second I can control the flow the whole time. Plus my flair takes up no counter space because in 5 seconds I break it down every time
For sure, counter space in a lot of circumstances is a huge issue. When I had my Flair pro being able to break it down and the nice carrying case was a solid benefit.
great review, thank you. $200 for a manual espresso machine is tempting. However, as you said, there are other $200 manual machines like the Flair that give the CayCay a run for the money.
Looking forward to getting one for my coffee shop
This is an interesting machine, I am looking to buy an espresso machine for while. With my budget its come down to Flair Pro2, Gaggia Espresso and Rok Robot. I hope this thing avaliable in my country soon.
All solid options. The benefit of the manuals is zero to little maintenance and repairs if needed are like an o-ring. But I’ve been impressed with the Gaggia’s shot quality in the past with a cheap pressure drop spring.
Just by a la pavoni europiccola/professional of ebay/other site
I feel like that formfactor with nomad like seesaw will be a winner
As an older person with arthritis I don’t like the pump handle. I’d rather have a broader head on it. And the wiggle room on that rod could lead to breakage to some part of the machine.
Otherwise I like the size and simplicity. Especially since for travelers like myself. And yes, I’ve really looked into the Flairs and all the other more portable espresso machines out there.
seems like there's alot of attempts by different companies to hit this price point and some just trying to make manual in next price bracket, i haven't been happy with any I've tried for one reason or another ( to much plastic, not great work flow, to tall etc) ...someone will get it right. i dont see having a external hot water source or preheat as that big inconvenience to work flow its just the design, control of flow and quality of construction if possible with cost of materials at this price
Yeah I’ve tried a lot of them over the years and not one hits all the points as good as the average pump or spring lever, but this one is very simple, but I still think the Kazak Rota II is a favorite, but the price point is pretty heavy.
The Cay is a cool concept minus the name for those of us in the US. I got recently a CO2 expressi maker from AliExpress but the broke. But the concept of not needing a cartridges is very appealing especially on a budget and environmental view
I feel like there’s more content on RUclips about dialing in on pump based machines, so I feel like something like a Breville machine is best to start with, but as you said, it’s expensive.
How much preheating would you think necessary for lighter roasts? Are we talking 2-3 cycles, or is one enough?
Where can I get it?
Loved it!!!!!
I'm in South America.
I think at the moment you can sign up for their next release. It’s a one many business so they come out in waves.
Is this and the Uniterra Nomad the only options with the larger capacity water tank for brewing longer shots manually?
The design and price are good. the press leverneeds to be modified.
Yeah I think it’s got a good amount of promise. If they made a few changes, maybe offered it without the scale as an option, I could see it being worth close to the Flair with the 58mm portafilter.
@@Sprometheus I like your point of view similar thoughts
@@Sprometheus I bought a lot of original hand-pressed coffee machines. I'm very interested in them recently.
I wish you had done a real time workflow/demonstration.
needs a needle valve to set the max flow rate.
Hey Spro, love your video ! What kind of app do you use with your Atago ? thanks =)
Why should you get this over the staresso mirage? Except for the basket/portafilter it's basically the same thing, but the mirage is way cheaper
I'd like to ask: are any parts of this machine made of plastic? And how's the cleanup?
Thank you my friend.
Enjoy your weekend. ☕️
Of course! Thanks for watching Cheekster, have a great weekend.
@@Sprometheus 🤝
Interesting
I'll stick with my Flair Pro 2.
It is. Honestly surprised with how it all works so simply, and pretty effortlessly. I can see it being a solid starter machine once he dials in the manufacturing a bit and reduces the price a bit.
@@Sprometheus Agreed. I was never happy with my Flair experience until I got my Niche grinder. Having a decent grinder makes all the difference when dealing with manual machines. Let alone any machine
Waht is the overal dimension??
These things are usually more trouble than they're worth. A $200 electric appliance machine would do just as good a job and be far less hassle, imho
you have a suggestion for make and model? What about longevity on $200 electric machines?
@@pimacanyon6208 A cheap Breville or DeLonghi would be fine. But if you want something better, get an old Starbucks Barista. Those are indestructible.
@@jontpt thanks!
What about descaling backflushing? For old machine you will need boiler check, to see for limescale etc
@@volodymyrikalyuk4583 just soak it in citric acid and water for a few cycles and it should be fine
Compare this to the flair 58
I would, but I gave my 58 away ages ago…
That would be sweet!
@@Sprometheus buy one again! 🤣 No im joking
vs Cafelat robot which machine i should buy?
Flair Classic .... ;-)
I have a Robot. Once you develop a workflow you like and dial it in it is just fine. Plus its built like a tank!
@@gblan thanks! I'll look into the Robot again.
Do you use Gmail ? ;) Nice info, as always !!
Yeah, too expensive for me for what it is. Pass. Thanks for the honest review.
This machine is begging for a lever... 😅
just fyi , at 4:43 to about 4:47 the captions dont match the actual voiced lines (perhaps they match what was one the script). this can make it harder for hard of hearing viewers, as they might rely on a combination of spoken words and captions to understand. (noticing now this issue persisted throughout the whole video)
Now THIS is interesting. Wonder what the price will be in the EU
Nice video! What happened to the Lagom 01 you were running for a bit? Curious about your thoughts!
I still got it, I’m just sort of playing musical grinders at the moment, and now in the process of remodeling the studio, but you’ll see a full review of it in the near-ish future.
@@Sprometheus Ah cool! Makes sense, lots of stuff to test. Thanks for the update though, I’ll keep my eyes out for the review