I am around the same hours as you (1300 hours), however, I am not counting hours anymore, just listening to as much content as I can. I agree with what has been said here that native Spanish is much different than Dreaming Spanish videos. I also agree that the roadmap is a little ambitious. I have been using Italki (65 classes) for 6 months and found that it has boosted my confidence, which I think is absolutely vital for moving forward with language learning. My speaking is certainly not fluent, but I can make myself understood. If I am talking about a subject that I am very familiar with, it is much easier than a subject where there is a lot of new vocabulary. My attitude now is not counting hours or making goals, but just to keep plodding and try to enjoy the process as much as possible.I am also reading a lot of books which I think has been great in teaching me sentence structure. I am of the firm belief that language learning is long-term progress with no ending - we just keep improving. That is why for me, attitude without self-pressure is vital so that I don't become too self-critical. I would like to add that I think ¨Dreaming Spanish¨is a great platform and I can attribute most of my learning to it. By the way, you sound like you are Australian - I am also living in Melbourne. Your video was frank and honest and that is great to hear because there is so much BS out there on the net with lots of false promises.
Firstly, thanks very much for putting the effort in to write this comment, I really appreciate the support. It sounds like we are at a very similar level in terms of we both have a solid grasp on the language, like if someone asked if I spoke spanish I would respond with something along the lines of "yes, but I am certainly not fluent." I think the gains now will start to be quite slow and its just about sticking with it for another few years, which as you said it is important not to put extra pressure on yourself and just enjoy the process. Also great to hear another australian giving langauge learning a go, since as you would know it is not as common over here.
@@LukelearnsspanishI agree completely with you that it is just time now. I think when we are resigned to that fact, it takes off a lot of pressure. I have also been reading Juan Fernandez, and I find his books entertaining; he uses a lot of colloquial sayings. Thanks, Luke, for your videos, and I look forward to watching more content on your channel.
What no one seem to get is that the roadmap hours are effective hours. Effective! On my Dreamingspanish page it says I have 1357 hours of input, but no... I do not. I cannot pay attention 100 % of the time. No one can. So I guess that I am able to pay attention for around 70 % of the time. That means I have 950 real hours of input. Effective hours. The roadmap might be right, it might be wrong, but people have to account for how many of the hours they have are real hours. Not paying attention is not input. There is a reason why Pablo says that we should watch interesting videos, because it is easier to pay more attention, and therefor get more input. Just keep that in mind.
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 I know I’m about 100-150 hours behind what the map says. My first 300 hour was so hard to stay focused. Now intermediate is so hard for me but I go back and watch beginner on 1.5 speed and I enjoy them where as it used to be so hard to stay focused. I watch Star Wars Clone wars as my advanced. I know it’s over my head but I enjoy it so I keep watching it. My goal is close to 3 hours a day and I can’t do that with DS. It tough for me to do a hour of DS.
Also, he's said repeatedly that listening to super easy material for your level is far faster than listening to material that's more difficult. So not all hours are equal. At almost 400 hours I'd say I'm spot on the road map.
I agree the roadmap is a little exaggerative. I do think the speaking part requires its own practice. While DS will get you really good at listening the only way to get good at speaking is to do it a lot. Then again I’m only at 66 hours. What do you think?
Yep I would agree from my own experience it feels that learning how to speak correctly may be its own seperate component to some degree. But I'm not expert so I am not too sure.
Great video as always, I definitely feel that native content is way different than content meant for learners, so this roadmap doesn´t seem to account for that. Most shows are in slang and have different accents as you said. It does seem like Dreaming Spanish is a great basis for learning Spanish tho. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.
i find it interesting what you said about being at 1000 hours and not being able to understand the slang/accents well of different media in different countries. would you say that it might make sense to start dabbling, at least, in native content or maybe focusing on an accent at some point earlier than 1000 hours? i chose the chilean accent, and i have to say i have exposed myself to it quite a bit and i find it easier to understand than a lot of learners do, as i've become used to it atp. however, i'm only on level 4 so i'm interested in hearing the perspective of someone whos already been through it! anyways, thanks for this honest update, it's really inspiring to hear about your journey! :)
for me i started watching native content properly around the 1000 hour mark I think. There still heaps of stuff I struggle to follow along with and be entertained and some other native content I find quite easy. For me it very much depends on the accent and the topic. In regards to picking an accent I am still yet to decide what to do with this. I think I would like to increase my overall comprehension first.
Just started Dreaming Spanish. I am really very impressed. I did learn French in my 40's so my comments are based from this. The only really truly way to obtain full competence in a language is by living it more or less 100% full time. Working it in, speaking it down in the bar, shopping whilst looking for something unusual (I was impressed that I managed to discreetly ask for tampons instead of tampax's for my daughter on a recent trip), etc. etc. French and Belgium girl-friends were the biggest help. Dreaming Spanish looks brilliant, but hey there are going to things that they are not going to put on their videos as they are just too rude (and I have already found out the words for bogeys and farts), or they just didn't think to do this. They can get you a long way there, but they state that after a while you will need to supplement it. The amount and quality of supplementation, together with natural ability (and I have none) will show increase the deviation at the more advanced stages of proficiency. And the more advanced proficiency is going to be more subjective. And as regards jargon, there are programmes / films in English where I don't really understand what they are talking about (I remember discussing a French film that I had seen and not understood with my French teacher. It was about youths rioting in the Parisian suburbs. She said that she had seen it as well, and also hadn't understood much of the dialogue - but thinking about it, it was not surprising as she was a middle aged, well to do comfortable woman living in Brussels. My girls have to explain rap songs to me). Getting to be fluent, and understanding most of media is a fantastic achievement - but there is only so far that you can get. ie in my opinion, to get really good, you are going to need to live in a Spanish country for a couple of years, and only speak a English in the occasional calls back home.
I’m currently at 938 hours and I feel like the level 5 describes me right now. I haven’t started speaking much so I can’t evaluate that. Simple full sentences will come into my mind when I am just thinking about something. I do feel like I have a pretty large vocabulary at this point, obviously my passive vocabulary is massive compared to my active. I do think the road map wording should be adjusted. I also think the words native-like should be reevaluated. Accurate pronunciation (which is the goal in my opinion) is different than a native accent. I have a friend from Nicaragua and she has a very thick accent, however her English pronunciation is fantastic and I never have trouble understanding her or even think about it honestly. All that said, I am thrilled with my progress. It would have never happened without Dreaming Spanish.
I think it all just depends on the outside input that people find to use. One person might get material that is too hard while another person might get right at their level. One is going to get much more use out of 25 hours of extra materials than the other. comprehensible input is key. I have watched some shows for children that went completely over my head while another show was pretty easy to understand. both shows were, supposedly, for the same age range. what I would be curious about is how much can one get from just Dreaming Spanish, completing it and then jumping to outside materials. Or, if you look at their graph, if someone adds reading materials or not or if they are having the cross talk conversations from hour zero like they show. Someone doing cross talk all the time and then changing into Spanish at some point will get a much better result that someone just doing video input.
How much did you know before focusing on CI? Or what grammar do you learn alongside it? I couldn’t imagine learning Spanish without learning or even knowing about Verb conjugation
@@Lukelearnsspanish si y cuando era adolescente en la escuela la verdad no me gustaba la clase de inglés se me hacía tan difícil pero ya de adulta lo terminé aprendiendo 🤣
Nah I haven’t done that. I used to do a bit of anki and it works well however I just found it got a bit boring and tedious for me. 99% of my study has just been sitting down and consuming content.
Have you considered that you having this experience is linked to you starting speaking "too early"? What's your overall opinion on "not speaking until 600-1000 hours" as a person who didn't follow this advice?
What is the idea behind the notion that "speaking too early" hinders your progress, or even worse, permanently destroys your chance to develop a native sounding accent? Is that a "dreaming spanish" theory? I'm guessing the idea is that prematurely adopting pronunciation in the beginner phase when you haven't fully absorbed the full phonetic range of the language establishes an incorrect and entrenched set of verbal patterns and reflexes. I'm assuming there is an assumption that it is difficult to undo the damage.
@@ryanbailey44 I'm not sure about the impossibility of undoing the damage but it's very hard indeed. Can't say though if by not speaking too early would vastly improve pronunciation (but I hope so, trying that atm). But yeah, damage is real. My English pronunciation is crooked as hell. I'm a native Russian speaker and I (funnily enough) after listening to Pablo and Alma pronuncing c and z in their Spanish, I started cringing at my pronunciation of th in English. It absolutely checks out in my experience that I replace some English sounds with more familiar sounds in my language: sometimes th becomes f, sometimes z
@@ryanbailey44 I believe it comes from Marvin Brown's ALG Thai course, where students are not supposed to start speaking until after 1,000 hours of comprehensible input. Be believed that waiting to speak introduces fewer errors and better pronunciation when we start speaking. He talks about it in his book "From the Outside In" which is available as a free pdf. There is also the whole comprehensible input theory that language emerges on its own, when the subconscious has received sufficient input.
yep, maybe speaking eariler than usual has impacted my speaking ability, it is really hard to measure this, however I did feel like I had a decent grasp on the language before I started the italki lessons and speaking.
@@unknown-otter ohhh okay, interesting. Yeah, I started speaking early on in my spanish journey and I am about 14 months in with an accent that could be improved for sure, but which gives me no issues when I want to communicate my point. Funny enough, I might have to learn russian at some point in the future and I might try to refrain speaking early on to see how that works.
I am around the same hours as you (1300 hours), however, I am not counting hours anymore, just listening to as much content as I can. I agree with what has been said here that native Spanish is much different than Dreaming Spanish videos. I also agree that the roadmap is a little ambitious. I have been using Italki (65 classes) for 6 months and found that it has boosted my confidence, which I think is absolutely vital for moving forward with language learning. My speaking is certainly not fluent, but I can make myself understood. If I am talking about a subject that I am very familiar with, it is much easier than a subject where there is a lot of new vocabulary. My attitude now is not counting hours or making goals, but just to keep plodding and try to enjoy the process as much as possible.I am also reading a lot of books which I think has been great in teaching me sentence structure.
I am of the firm belief that language learning is long-term progress with no ending - we just keep improving. That is why for me, attitude without self-pressure is vital so that I don't become too self-critical. I would like to add that I think ¨Dreaming Spanish¨is a great platform and I can attribute most of my learning to it. By the way, you sound like you are Australian - I am also living in Melbourne. Your video was frank and honest and that is great to hear because there is so much BS out there on the net with lots of false promises.
Firstly, thanks very much for putting the effort in to write this comment, I really appreciate the support. It sounds like we are at a very similar level in terms of we both have a solid grasp on the language, like if someone asked if I spoke spanish I would respond with something along the lines of "yes, but I am certainly not fluent." I think the gains now will start to be quite slow and its just about sticking with it for another few years, which as you said it is important not to put extra pressure on yourself and just enjoy the process. Also great to hear another australian giving langauge learning a go, since as you would know it is not as common over here.
@@LukelearnsspanishI agree completely with you that it is just time now. I think when we are resigned to that fact, it takes off a lot of pressure. I have also been reading Juan Fernandez, and I find his books entertaining; he uses a lot of colloquial sayings. Thanks, Luke, for your videos, and I look forward to watching more content on your channel.
What no one seem to get is that the roadmap hours are effective hours. Effective! On my Dreamingspanish page it says I have 1357 hours of input, but no... I do not. I cannot pay attention 100 % of the time. No one can. So I guess that I am able to pay attention for around 70 % of the time. That means I have 950 real hours of input. Effective hours. The roadmap might be right, it might be wrong, but people have to account for how many of the hours they have are real hours. Not paying attention is not input. There is a reason why Pablo says that we should watch interesting videos, because it is easier to pay more attention, and therefor get more input. Just keep that in mind.
Totally agree, hours listened while your not paying attention cannot be suggested to be as good when you are sitting down fully engaged in content.
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 I know I’m about 100-150 hours behind what the map says. My first 300 hour was so hard to stay focused. Now intermediate is so hard for me but I go back and watch beginner on 1.5 speed and I enjoy them where as it used to be so hard to stay focused. I watch Star Wars Clone wars as my advanced. I know it’s over my head but I enjoy it so I keep watching it. My goal is close to 3 hours a day and I can’t do that with DS. It tough for me to do a hour of DS.
Also, he's said repeatedly that listening to super easy material for your level is far faster than listening to material that's more difficult. So not all hours are equal.
At almost 400 hours I'd say I'm spot on the road map.
I agree the roadmap is a little exaggerative. I do think the speaking part requires its own practice. While DS will get you really good at listening the only way to get good at speaking is to do it a lot. Then again I’m only at 66 hours. What do you think?
Yep I would agree from my own experience it feels that learning how to speak correctly may be its own seperate component to some degree. But I'm not expert so I am not too sure.
Great video as always, I definitely feel that native content is way different than content meant for learners, so this roadmap doesn´t seem to account for that. Most shows are in slang and have different accents as you said. It does seem like Dreaming Spanish is a great basis for learning Spanish tho. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.
i find it interesting what you said about being at 1000 hours and not being able to understand the slang/accents well of different media in different countries. would you say that it might make sense to start dabbling, at least, in native content or maybe focusing on an accent at some point earlier than 1000 hours? i chose the chilean accent, and i have to say i have exposed myself to it quite a bit and i find it easier to understand than a lot of learners do, as i've become used to it atp. however, i'm only on level 4 so i'm interested in hearing the perspective of someone whos already been through it! anyways, thanks for this honest update, it's really inspiring to hear about your journey! :)
for me i started watching native content properly around the 1000 hour mark I think. There still heaps of stuff I struggle to follow along with and be entertained and some other native content I find quite easy. For me it very much depends on the accent and the topic. In regards to picking an accent I am still yet to decide what to do with this. I think I would like to increase my overall comprehension first.
Just started Dreaming Spanish. I am really very impressed. I did learn French in my 40's so my comments are based from this.
The only really truly way to obtain full competence in a language is by living it more or less 100% full time.
Working it in, speaking it down in the bar, shopping whilst looking for something unusual (I was impressed that I managed to discreetly ask for tampons instead of tampax's for my daughter on a recent trip), etc. etc. French and Belgium girl-friends were the biggest help.
Dreaming Spanish looks brilliant, but hey there are going to things that they are not going to put on their videos as they are just too rude (and I have already found out the words for bogeys and farts), or they just didn't think to do this. They can get you a long way there, but they state that after a while you will need to supplement it. The amount and quality of supplementation, together with natural ability (and I have none) will show increase the deviation at the more advanced stages of proficiency. And the more advanced proficiency is going to be more subjective.
And as regards jargon, there are programmes / films in English where I don't really understand what they are talking about (I remember discussing a French film that I had seen and not understood with my French teacher. It was about youths rioting in the Parisian suburbs. She said that she had seen it as well, and also hadn't understood much of the dialogue - but thinking about it, it was not surprising as she was a middle aged, well to do comfortable woman living in Brussels. My girls have to explain rap songs to me).
Getting to be fluent, and understanding most of media is a fantastic achievement - but there is only so far that you can get. ie in my opinion, to get really good, you are going to need to live in a Spanish country for a couple of years, and only speak a English in the occasional calls back home.
I’m currently at 938 hours and I feel like the level 5 describes me right now. I haven’t started speaking much so I can’t evaluate that. Simple full sentences will come into my mind when I am just thinking about something. I do feel like I have a pretty large vocabulary at this point, obviously my passive vocabulary is massive compared to my active. I do think the road map wording should be adjusted. I also think the words native-like should be reevaluated. Accurate pronunciation (which is the goal in my opinion) is different than a native accent. I have a friend from Nicaragua and she has a very thick accent, however her English pronunciation is fantastic and I never have trouble understanding her or even think about it honestly. All that said, I am thrilled with my progress. It would have never happened without Dreaming Spanish.
Yep I very much agree with most of what you mentioned. thanks for sharing your thoughts :)
I think it all just depends on the outside input that people find to use. One person might get material that is too hard while another person might get right at their level. One is going to get much more use out of 25 hours of extra materials than the other.
comprehensible input is key. I have watched some shows for children that went completely over my head while another show was pretty easy to understand. both shows were, supposedly, for the same age range.
what I would be curious about is how much can one get from just Dreaming Spanish, completing it and then jumping to outside materials.
Or, if you look at their graph, if someone adds reading materials or not or if they are having the cross talk conversations from hour zero like they show. Someone doing cross talk all the time and then changing into Spanish at some point will get a much better result that someone just doing video input.
How much did you know before focusing on CI? Or what grammar do you learn alongside it?
I couldn’t imagine learning Spanish without learning or even knowing about Verb conjugation
To be honest I haven’t done any grammer really. Maybe a tiny bit at the start.
Para mi escuchar mucho pero mucho es lo que me ayudó más a aprender Inglés 😊
Eso es genial, ¿eres hablante nativo de español?
@@Lukelearnsspanish si y cuando era adolescente en la escuela la verdad no me gustaba la clase de inglés se me hacía tan difícil pero ya de adulta lo terminé aprendiendo 🤣
When watching videos do you write down vocabularies or you just watch and enjoy? Do you use Anki? Thanks!
Nah I haven’t done that. I used to do a bit of anki and it works well however I just found it got a bit boring and tedious for me. 99% of my study has just been sitting down and consuming content.
Muchas gracias por el video. ¿Donde es Pablo?
De nada! Jajaja
Have you considered that you having this experience is linked to you starting speaking "too early"?
What's your overall opinion on "not speaking until 600-1000 hours" as a person who didn't follow this advice?
What is the idea behind the notion that "speaking too early" hinders your progress, or even worse, permanently destroys your chance to develop a native sounding accent? Is that a "dreaming spanish" theory? I'm guessing the idea is that prematurely adopting pronunciation in the beginner phase when you haven't fully absorbed the full phonetic range of the language establishes an incorrect and entrenched set of verbal patterns and reflexes. I'm assuming there is an assumption that it is difficult to undo the damage.
@@ryanbailey44 I'm not sure about the impossibility of undoing the damage but it's very hard indeed. Can't say though if by not speaking too early would vastly improve pronunciation (but I hope so, trying that atm).
But yeah, damage is real. My English pronunciation is crooked as hell. I'm a native Russian speaker and I (funnily enough) after listening to Pablo and Alma pronuncing c and z in their Spanish, I started cringing at my pronunciation of th in English.
It absolutely checks out in my experience that I replace some English sounds with more familiar sounds in my language: sometimes th becomes f, sometimes z
@@ryanbailey44 I believe it comes from Marvin Brown's ALG Thai course, where students are not supposed to start speaking until after 1,000 hours of comprehensible input. Be believed that waiting to speak introduces fewer errors and better pronunciation when we start speaking. He talks about it in his book "From the Outside In" which is available as a free pdf. There is also the whole comprehensible input theory that language emerges on its own, when the subconscious has received sufficient input.
yep, maybe speaking eariler than usual has impacted my speaking ability, it is really hard to measure this, however I did feel like I had a decent grasp on the language before I started the italki lessons and speaking.
@@unknown-otter ohhh okay, interesting. Yeah, I started speaking early on in my spanish journey and I am about 14 months in with an accent that could be improved for sure, but which gives me no issues when I want to communicate my point. Funny enough, I might have to learn russian at some point in the future and I might try to refrain speaking early on to see how that works.
Mic upgraded haha
aha yeah slowly upgrading the set up, hopefully some higher quality videos to come.
Did you start DS from scratch, or do you need the basics?
I pre much started from scratch with DS, I did a few months of light study prior before hearing about DS