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One thought on the Boogie: the EQ knobs are a 'pre' EQ, meaning they're shaping the tone of the guitar before it hits the preamp, and the slider controls are post preamp. Also, turning down the bass via pre-EQ as the gain goes up is also kinda Boogie basics
Does the signal not need to have early stage of preamplificarion to even be eq-able?. Sure you can continue to gain it up after the EQ but I think more amp designs than boogie do this. Just looking at a basic boogie preamp schematic seems to show a very fendery input design then into another gain stage, then the tone controls.
@@heftosprod Yes, guitar signals are weak, so they have to amplified to be able to do anything meaningful with. The input stage on tube amps requires about 1.5V (give or take, depending on bias) to even begin to clip. The hottest humbuckers pickups I've measured are about 1V peak. IOW, the input stage of a tube amp is not distorting (at least not the sense that guitar players think of distortion). Boogie mark series amps are indeed hot rodded Fenders. As MR said above, the passive EQ affects the character of the overdrive (tight, flubby, etc). However, most amps use post preamp tone stacks. Vintage amps that need to be cranked to get good crunch (Plexi's for example) benefit from the EQ methodology that applies to mark series amps. This is due to the circuitry after the EQ is being driven hard into clipping (notably the Phase Inverter and output tubes). Hopefully that helps clear things up.
Also boogies (depending on model) have quite different frequencies for the knobs compared to other amps and compared to what you think. Like the recto treble is basically a high mid control.
The most important thing people can learn is to use their ears. Do what SOUNDS right not what LOOKS right. There’s no right or wrong when it comes to audio
The method I've used is to start with everything at zero. Then turn up the treble until the point where it starts to open up -- which is different for every amp design. Then edge it up to where it's slightly "too much" and note that point. Then return it to zero and go to the next knob and do the same. Then set each knob at the "too much" point and adjust down. EQ by subtracting, not adding, is the point. I have no idea if that works for other people, but it has worked well for me.
Whatever works for you! With some amps the EQ is highly interactive, for example the sound of all the other controls might change if you adjust the treble control
This method is very useful for amp sims imo. But for real amps, i always treat the eq as a ‘fine tune’ kind of thing, i always start at noon, play with the cab mic placement, then fine tune using the eq. But yeah, the method you mentioned is very useful for amp sims, as sometimes the digital knobs can be very sensitive
I saw an interview with Zakk Wylde where he says smth similar but starting from max, dial all the knobs at max and then start dialling them back until it sounds good.
I'd do the exact opposite. Start at max. Depending on the amp, that may drop the impedance on the last gain stage bleeding the minimum signal to ground.
Learning how to dial in a solid tone has been one of my most powerful tools in the studio. Its just as important as mic and cab choice and placement. Very well done with this video. Not too in depth but not too vague either. Just enough info here to get ppl thinking and trying stuff. Nothing here but awesome!!!!
Really good video! Those kind of side-by-side comparisons are so good, cause, when you are dialing your amp, the transitions may be quite subtle. But putting two setting this way, we can appreciate how clear those amps sound in a mix. Good job man.
These are the videos I wish I had when I first started. It took me years to figure this out and glad that your making these videos man. Even for me they are still helpful.
When trying to dial in an amp, its also helpful sometimes to understand a bit about about the design of the amplifier. In most guitar amplifiers the EQ section is placed after the distortion section in the preamp. Unless you use an overdrive or other tone shaping tool in front of the amplifier, the amp will have basically the same distortion characteristics regardless of how you set the EQ. The EQ will just allow you to emphasize or de-emphasize what is already there. The Mark Vs main EQ is pre distortion which means you can really shape the character and response of the amp much more than with just a post distortion EQ.
This is very true! I got one of my favorite tones from my JCM 2000 (high gain channel) with the treble at 0, mids and presence at full, and bass around the middle. Volume quite high and gain low. Totally insane in the minds of some people. But who cares as long as it sounds the way you like it?:)
Great video! I tried cranking the middle and treble on a couple of Blackstars and they both sounded way better. I too have been guilty of starting at noon and not straying too far from there. Thanks for the tip!
I have been playing for 30 years and holy crap I’ve been doing it wrong 😩. Thank you so much. I just dialed in my tone for both DI and Cab and what a difference!
I have the Mesa 25, always thought it was ok, nothing great. Your video helped me and within 5 seconds it sounds so much better. Thanks again from an old newb
One thing to know with a traditional bass/middle/treble tonestack design is that the treble control moves the center frequency of the middle 'cut'. So you can experiment with the treble to get the middle cut right where you want it.
Great video. If you think this is an issue with guitars players, try out some bass amps - some bass heads, like GKs and Hartkes, need drastic looking EQ settings to really sound their best.
I did the same thing with a mesa lonestar classic. I also changed the stock cab to a much brighter shur 1×12. The shop owners were very surprised to see how such extreme settings can sound so good
Thanks for the video John, couldn't come at a better time. I'm wrestling with a Powerball II and at times I have found the settings on treble and mid boost way up high and backed them off thinking I was doing it wrong. I guess the message is, if your ears say its fine, its fine!
Back in the 80s Leslie West played through my late 70s Marshall JMP 100 2 input master volume Amp and he ran bass,mid and treble on 10 with the presence off, pre on 4.5 and Master on 6 ( loud ). Of course he sounded great. I tend to reduce bass and slightly boost mid and treble which sits in the mix well.
Great video, very useful! Would you consider doing a videos based on dialing in the Friedman JJ Jr? That’s such a unique sounding amp, which I feel warrants a video to showcase just how dialing it in in different ways can make the most out of it.
The first one sounded fine to me in song context. But when it was played back to back with better EQ settings, the difference became very apparent! When we tweak our tones, we need to have a starting point, but then always get it into full band context and check it out!
In my limited experience with mesas I find they aren’t the easiest to dial in until you learn the overall workings of the amps. The triple crown however sounds good and is the easiest to dial for me.
DUDE i literally discovered the same thing a few days ago and i thought no one knew this amazing trick. It gives it so much character especially if you put the presence at like 1/2 o clock
The JCM 800 really taught me this lesson. Specifically the Studio Classic. I absolutely adore that amp but DAMN is it ever the audio equivalent of hanging out white sheets on a sunny day 😩 Treble and presence around 1/ 2, mid at 6/ 7, bass at 7/ 8 and Master & Pre-amp at 7 (attenuated!) with a clean boost. Absolute bliss 👌
My old jcm 800 50w mv settings were mid and treble and presence on full. Bass about 4. Angled guitar 4x12 cab, straight bass 4x12,sm57 on each.. Could actually kill people from 50 paces.. do not try this at home.
@@markdavies2115 Well I’m staying at my girlfriend’s at the moment so I’ll try it there 😉 I just this morning tried it with bass & treble at 7 and mid & presence dimed. Holy fuckin’ mother of thrash 🔥 Almost unbearable stood directly in-front of the speakers but off to the side I was absolutely in heaven (or hell I guess?). Gonna swap out the V30s for something a little warmer soon in hoping I can get a slightly smoother more “80s” lead tone. Such an ace amp though. I can’t believe I ever sold my first one!
This video is so important! it's so hard not to fall into this trap. And it just gets crazier when you factor in how the ear perceives frequencies as loudness changes. I have my Mini Recto's clean channel in fairly extreme settings (gain at 11:00, treble at 3:30, mid at 11:00, bass at 2:30, presence past 3:00), sometimes I might dial back the treble (decreases gain too) and dime the presence. The dirty channel, I almost always have the bass at 9:00. I've also found a great suggestion for a tone with mid and treble dimed and bass completely off, sounds pretty marshall-y in Vintage mode. It's like because rectos are known for being "fizzy", it feels wrong to turn the treble up so much.
Very helpful indeed, I don't own any tube amp, I only use digital multi effects, and straight to the PA in live situation, but here's the thing, adjusting the eq in your amp is indeed helpful in the shaping of your tone, even in multi effects it's very important, useful thing I recently discover to make sure your guitar not drowning in the mix or live situation is to dial your tone (especially the eq) side to side with a song, that way we can listen if the tone is clear enough or drowning (especially careful with the bass), and it work well for me, start the eq at noon and adjust from there while playing with a song/track, oh and for multi effects it's better if we use studio monitor for tone shaping, and sorry for the grammar english is my second language hehe...
My Mesa Roadster. It depended on the guitar, but I have always had to lower the bass at least to 9:00 and crank up the presence on the third channel at least to 4-5 PM. That improved clarity and added saturation.
I may be wrong but my understanding is that on most guitar amplifiers, EQ controls are passive just like the Volume and Tone knobs on a guitar, while the controls that affect the power amp such as Presence, Resonance, etc. are shelf boosts. That means the "technically correct" way to dial a guitar amp would be to start with the EQ controls fully cranked and the boosts controls at 0, then start by removing what you don't like in the tone by turning down the EQ controls, and then finish by adding what's still missing with the boost controls. Maybe that's why so many vintage Marshall users say that their amp sounds its best when fully dimed?
That is correct. However, there isn't really a true correct way. I'm just trying to bring the point across that you shouldn't be afraid to dial in amps to more extremes if it sounds good. But you brought up a good point for sure!
@@SonicDriveStudio That's why I put "technically correct" in quotes. ;) We tend to be too conservative when dialing an amp or even a pedal, and a video like this one was much needed for the guitar community!
Great examples here! While not as extreme as a Mesa, or even the Fireball, the Bogner Ecstasy 101B is another one that takes some fairly aggressive EQ moves to really bring out the clarity and top end and radically change the sound, at least on mine. And considering that I have seen some people complain about it being too dark (which it is with everything around noon), I assume that mine is not unique.
I believe on those the treble knob is tapered such that at noon it’s like a Marshall treble knob at 9:00. Which is why they sound dark all knobs at noon.
READ ME: Some notes just to clarify some things that have come up: - The title to the video wasn't meant to be taken very literally. I'm not saying "you're all doing it wrong all the time" etc. I guess it's meant to get your attention and since you're reading this I guess it worked :). If you watch the video you'll see what I'm talking about. It's just some food for thought and perhaps a different/fresh perspective. - Of course every amp is different, that's the whole point. Use your ears. There are NO rules! Try to find what sounds good to you. - Speakers, pickups, guitars, pedals etc. etc. Also have an impact on the tone, of course. - The settings in the thumbnail and in the video are just an example. Don't be afraid to experiment and find what works for you. These are just some settings that work well for me on these particular amps and I thought they were a good example of amps that benefit from more extreme settings. Have you ever experienced this? What's an amp that you're tried that needed extreme settings for it to sound good? Cheers everyone!
you know, I almost fucked up jajaja, a friend of mine offered me a Mesa mark v 90 combo por a good price, but I didn't know this valuable info, I started dialing in with all the pots at 12 o 'clock, it wasn't a good tone, I was about to Pass on this deal, but then I watched JP videos on Mark v and his JP2c, matched his extreme EQ settings and wow I loved it, so i bought it and couldn't be happier with it, I noticed this info important, there are some Videos from some guitar players that tried this amp with no extreme settings and sold it, big mistake, there is one that called Mark v disappointment watching the video you can tell that he didn't tweek jaja
My Marshall DSL100HR (ultra gain od1). I thought it sounded "thin" for the longest time until I dimed out the bass (depending on the guitar) and the mid controls. I also turned down the treble to around 3 oclock and turned up the presence (i guess this is common on marshall amps)
Luckily for me I don't have to work too hard for good tones from my amps as I have awesome cabs to choose from. I personally struggle more with clean tones. Have trouble getting those big chimy clear tones. As for mid and high gain, I got that under control all day long. Rather, my cabs have that under control. With a good cab, most of the work is already done. Jon can we do this with some cleans? I know its not the channels claim to fame but I'm sure some of us could benefit greatly from learning your approach to cleans.
As a mark v:35 owner, I totally agree that the mids knob on the second channel is very subtle. At one point I thought it was faulty lol. And yes, don’t be afraid to turn all the knobs, and slide the graphic eq, as far as required 🤘🏼
Thanks for finally saying this. Pre RUclips no one ever considered leaving tone controls at noon on tube amps. Opened for Quiet Riot one time and Carlos’ tech ran his hand across the top of the knobs to dime everything. Lol
I actually like the Fireball’s noon voicing for certain styles, but there’s a lot of range between the EQ dials to create fairly versatile tones across the board and of course, as per this video, that very upper mid-focussed and present tone that epitomises the amp’s name. I think that one of the potentially ultimate ENGL amps could be the core Fireball design but with the tone shaping options of the Powerball II.
@@SonicDriveStudio Great to hear. I’m sure it can be an excellent addition to your collection. My own experience with the Powerball II was very positive, especially in terms of the tone shaping options, I just found the Fireball 100’s overall voicing and gain structure to be more aggressive and to my liking.
Agree but if you want to stand out in the mix throw a Equalizer into the FX loop. I'm using a simple MXR 10 band Eq and you can dial in anything you want n still get that Massive Holy Shit Distortion/ Keep Rawking it...
Black Sabbath was born out of that muddiness, too. It really depends on what you want in a mix. I tend to make my "background" instruments more muddy and the fore stuff gets brighter treatment. But if you want those ultra-tight palm mutes, then you have to go away from the noonish mentality in nearly every case.
I do this with my Diezel Herbert. Mids almost all the way and the treble about 2:30 - 3. The Herbert can get lost in the mix if not dialed in right. The mid cut is cool only in the studio, when layering tones.
Its amzing when u finaly get used to the simplest marshall amp ,eg when u ear start to appreciate the the mid boost and contour also u learn to not push the gain too much aswell plus it brings the attributes out of certain guitars aswell...an SG sounds cool with a slight gain rathar than turning up to 10 ...u will enjoy playing for longer aswell
AFAIC , all these tones sounded great . It just depends on what suits the song. A “producer’s ear” is key here because a great sound in the studio (isolated) doesn’t mean it’s the best on the mix overall. Love your videos.🇨🇦
Interesting concept that Mr. Sonic. I've formulated an unthrodox method myself; double-boost, mids and treble on the amp maxed with no bass, bass EQ in the fx loop with a slight boost on the lows: blissssssss ✌
It'something I've experienced on lots of amps. And there is an electronic explanation about this: as far as majority of tone stack consists into take frequencies away, to crank tonestack just let all the frequencies pass thru. A cranked tone stack should be considered as a starting point when dialing up your tone!
Correct. Most amps use passive EQ, which only cuts. Full up on each band lets the most sound at that frequency through. The Mesa would be the exception to this, as they use an active tone stack which can either cut or boost, so middle of the knob’s range should be your starting point.
I didn't ever get good at EQ until I bought a Marshall Super Lead which pretty much only has one sound regardless of EQ at high enough volume. Made me realise how flubby, overly dark and inarticulate my other amps were because I was afraid to push the higher frequency settings!
Everytime I needed a tight tone and I use to keep mid and bass pretty much at 50% and presence at 40%. The tone was thick and muddy. Thanks I needed this video for a long time ago for my Engl.
Holy fucking shit ov hellfire and steel! I'm completely overwhelmed! Goddammit! I play the guitar for about 30 years now and never ever tried something like this. After I saw your video today I tried it with my Powerball 2 and Rectifier Solo Head and I'm only a huge WOW! This is incredible as incredible can be. Holy cow! 😅 Thank you so much for opening up my mind!
Had a similar problem with the Carvin V3. But it was not the EQ itself, more the fact that it sounds weird with the master volume turned down and much better with it turned up even when the channel volumes are turnned nearly all the way down.
*looks at his SC20 and JCM800* hmmm... But great point, it applies to a lot of amps. Certainly the Engl Screamer I have, I could never figure out how to dial in, until my friend just went to town on the controls.
Yup! The Orange Dark Terror - crank that shape knob to the right most of the way, then dial the gain right back to 12 o’clock ish (depending on your pick up output) then run a full level, zero gain tubescreamer in front for tight, percussive palm mutes…
Everyone who knows me thinks I'm obsessed with MIDs however when they hear my PRS MT15 live they understand that I flatten everything 😃 I run a boost in front and brighten treble post EQ but I have my amp settings bass noon, mids max, treble zero and presence max 😯
Not just amps: I'm all digital & portable and I still have this problem with most of the amp models in my little MFX pedals running direct to PA. They mostly default to "noon" across the board which makes almost everything sound thick and flubby. I'm getting better at dialing my sounds in with them, and now I have several custom patches where the EQs are pretty extreme to find that tight sound that can cut through a muddy mix without getting shrill.
I feel like the Carvin Legacy is a great example of this. It's a pretty dark amp, so unless you want to get totally buried in the mix, you have to do some radical EQ moves! I usually have both the treble and the presence quite high on it.
I have never been afraid to use EQ. After all, in addition to the different parameters in front of the amp that I mentioned earlier, the overall setting still plays a role. Rehearsal room, living room, with the band or alone. I always screw until I am satisfied. Unfortunately, this is never the case, because even the ear reacts differently on different days.
I had a marshall jvm 210h and used to run the bass on full, mid on half and treble on 3/4s on the crunch mode on channel 1. I did some slight variation of this with any marshall I had. Just sounded right to me.
Boogie Mark series amps are famos for not being usable with everything at noon for high gain sounds. You mainly dial the tone with the graphic EQ. Theres a very good video called something like "Treble dumping a Mark V 25", it's a good watch.
I have always tried to tweak all my amps to explore new tones and how responsive they are and yeah, I have to admit that in some of them the sweet spot is at noon, but as I see it the gear used affects the tone too.
Thats amazing. Can you please post a pissed off, mean setting for Orange Rocker 15 , I saw one of your video where you have used that amp. I would like to try the setting in my amp.
Generally speaking, tone controls on guitar amps are passive, which means that they can only subtract volume (unlike audio amps where controls are active and can also add volume). Passive controls turned fully clockwise permit the signal to pass unchanged, turning them ccw they lower the volume of that frequency.
I really like my Mark 5:25 with eq similar to this but with lower gain on the amp and a relatively transparent overdrive like a Way Huge Saucy Box or JHS Morning Glory in front. I'm not sure why but it sounds better to me than only using the amps' gain.
Yea I'm still working on dialing in my EQs on my Diezel D-moll.....AND what i need changes depending on which guitar I use. I really haven't found that "set and forget" setting I like.
The Bogner Uberschall is definitely an example of an amp you need to dial in with your ears and not your eyes. Some of the knobs react very differently than on other amps, which leads some people to have a hard time finding their tone with the amp.
I like the way the Fireball 100 sounds with the Mid Boost on, Bass at 3.5, Mid right in the middle, Treble at about 7.5-8, Lead Gain at like 2, Lead Volume at 3, Master at 3+, Presence at 4. Place a tube screamer in front of the amp, or a clean boost of some kind. I use both the Xotic RC Booster for clean boost, then the Xotic Soul Driven for the tube screamer boost, and man does it get fuckin CHUNKY up in here. I also engage the Bottom switch half the time because, just goddamn. This is the best amp I’ve ever owned hands down.
I did go the other way around........ I started with some extreme EQing (not in a good way) and now, I start at noon and listen what I hear, want to add or remove. Or, I turn everything down, start with the hi end and work my way back to the low end so I can hear what everything is doing.
i notice in my blackstar ht club 40 mkll, in the overdrive channel, the bass comes to lose after 6 , down it and set the volumen control on 5.5 or 6 to ad some tight low end,
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One thought on the Boogie: the EQ knobs are a 'pre' EQ, meaning they're shaping the tone of the guitar before it hits the preamp, and the slider controls are post preamp. Also, turning down the bass via pre-EQ as the gain goes up is also kinda Boogie basics
Does the signal not need to have early stage of preamplificarion to even be eq-able?. Sure you can continue to gain it up after the EQ but I think more amp designs than boogie do this. Just looking at a basic boogie preamp schematic seems to show a very fendery input design then into another gain stage, then the tone controls.
@@heftosprod Yes, guitar signals are weak, so they have to amplified to be able to do anything meaningful with. The input stage on tube amps requires about 1.5V (give or take, depending on bias) to even begin to clip. The hottest humbuckers pickups I've measured are about 1V peak. IOW, the input stage of a tube amp is not distorting (at least not the sense that guitar players think of distortion).
Boogie mark series amps are indeed hot rodded Fenders. As MR said above, the passive EQ affects the character of the overdrive (tight, flubby, etc). However, most amps use post preamp tone stacks. Vintage amps that need to be cranked to get good crunch (Plexi's for example) benefit from the EQ methodology that applies to mark series amps. This is due to the circuitry after the EQ is being driven hard into clipping (notably the Phase Inverter and output tubes). Hopefully that helps clear things up.
Also boogies (depending on model) have quite different frequencies for the knobs compared to other amps and compared to what you think. Like the recto treble is basically a high mid control.
Good to know. I’m not a mesa guy, and the toe controls have always frustrated me when trying them.
The most important thing people can learn is to use their ears. Do what SOUNDS right not what LOOKS right. There’s no right or wrong when it comes to audio
true. Then pull off knobs and put them on to look right
@@dappawap man knows.
The way Eddie Van Halen did it is always right😂
Extremely underrated comment right here, sound is in our DNA and what better tools than to learn by ear and develope your own style
The method I've used is to start with everything at zero. Then turn up the treble until the point where it starts to open up -- which is different for every amp design. Then edge it up to where it's slightly "too much" and note that point. Then return it to zero and go to the next knob and do the same. Then set each knob at the "too much" point and adjust down. EQ by subtracting, not adding, is the point.
I have no idea if that works for other people, but it has worked well for me.
Whatever works for you! With some amps the EQ is highly interactive, for example the sound of all the other controls might change if you adjust the treble control
This method is very useful for amp sims imo. But for real amps, i always treat the eq as a ‘fine tune’ kind of thing, i always start at noon, play with the cab mic placement, then fine tune using the eq. But yeah, the method you mentioned is very useful for amp sims, as sometimes the digital knobs can be very sensitive
@@ky9999 true, sometimes with virtual amps the controls are more sensitive! Good point!
I saw an interview with Zakk Wylde where he says smth similar but starting from max, dial all the knobs at max and then start dialling them back until it sounds good.
I'd do the exact opposite. Start at max. Depending on the amp, that may drop the impedance on the last gain stage bleeding the minimum signal to ground.
Learning how to dial in a solid tone has been one of my most powerful tools in the studio. Its just as important as mic and cab choice and placement. Very well done with this video. Not too in depth but not too vague either. Just enough info here to get ppl thinking and trying stuff. Nothing here but awesome!!!!
Really good video!
Those kind of side-by-side comparisons are so good, cause, when you are dialing your amp, the transitions may be quite subtle.
But putting two setting this way, we can appreciate how clear those amps sound in a mix.
Good job man.
These are the videos I wish I had when I first started. It took me years to figure this out and glad that your making these videos man. Even for me they are still helpful.
When trying to dial in an amp, its also helpful sometimes to understand a bit about about the design of the amplifier. In most guitar amplifiers the EQ section is placed after the distortion section in the preamp. Unless you use an overdrive or other tone shaping tool in front of the amplifier, the amp will have basically the same distortion characteristics regardless of how you set the EQ. The EQ will just allow you to emphasize or de-emphasize what is already there.
The Mark Vs main EQ is pre distortion which means you can really shape the character and response of the amp much more than with just a post distortion EQ.
Thanks to your Helix videos I am not afraid to dial in some extreme amps settings anymore😂. Love this video as well🤘🏼
This is very true! I got one of my favorite tones from my JCM 2000 (high gain channel) with the treble at 0, mids and presence at full, and bass around the middle. Volume quite high and gain low. Totally insane in the minds of some people. But who cares as long as it sounds the way you like it?:)
Great video! I tried cranking the middle and treble on a couple of Blackstars and they both sounded way better. I too have been guilty of starting at noon and not straying too far from there. Thanks for the tip!
I want to say I really appreciate you using different camera angles on the Engl.
I have been playing for 30 years and holy crap I’ve been doing it wrong 😩. Thank you so much. I just dialed in my tone for both DI and Cab and what a difference!
I have the Mesa 25, always thought it was ok, nothing great. Your video helped me and within 5 seconds it sounds so much better. Thanks again from an old newb
That first riff is sweet 🤘🏻
Keep up the great work!
One thing to know with a traditional bass/middle/treble tonestack design is that the treble control moves the center frequency of the middle 'cut'. So you can experiment with the treble to get the middle cut right where you want it.
Great video. If you think this is an issue with guitars players, try out some bass amps - some bass heads, like GKs and Hartkes, need drastic looking EQ settings to really sound their best.
I didn’t even watch the video yet and just by the thumbnail I’m like yes! Also as you get louder you need a lot less treble than you think you do.
I did the same thing with a mesa lonestar classic. I also changed the stock cab to a much brighter shur 1×12. The shop owners were very surprised to see how such extreme settings can sound so good
crazy how much difference this makes.. Great video and what a contrast of the A/B
Thanks! Glad you like it
Thank you for sharing this. I'm going to try your settings on my Fireball!
Thanks for the video John, couldn't come at a better time. I'm wrestling with a Powerball II and at times I have found the settings on treble and mid boost way up high and backed them off thinking I was doing it wrong. I guess the message is, if your ears say its fine, its fine!
this is perfect! I Cracked the treeble on my markV and it feels like a different amp, thank you so much!
Awesome!
Back in the 80s Leslie West played through my late 70s Marshall JMP 100 2 input master volume Amp and he ran bass,mid and treble on 10 with the presence off, pre on 4.5 and Master on 6 ( loud ). Of course he sounded great. I tend to reduce bass and slightly boost mid and treble which sits in the mix well.
Great video, very useful! Would you consider doing a videos based on dialing in the Friedman JJ Jr? That’s such a unique sounding amp, which I feel warrants a video to showcase just how dialing it in in different ways can make the most out of it.
love your riffs on the examples...really cool...
The first one sounded fine to me in song context. But when it was played back to back with better EQ settings, the difference became very apparent! When we tweak our tones, we need to have a starting point, but then always get it into full band context and check it out!
Sometimes on my Dual Rectifier Multi Watt, I'll run the Bass at noon, to 1, Mids maxed, and 0 treble. Gives it a very unique tone.
In my limited experience with mesas I find they aren’t the easiest to dial in until you learn the overall workings of the amps. The triple crown however sounds good and is the easiest to dial for me.
That’s really unique I’ve ever seen
“bUt tHaT wONt SoUnD gOod”
DUDE i literally discovered the same thing a few days ago and i thought no one knew this amazing trick. It gives it so much character especially if you put the presence at like 1/2 o clock
@@davu9027 Adam Tanbouz from He is Legend runs his life sound that way, and it's just gnarly in the best way possible.
loving the riffs and the melodies 👌
The JCM 800 really taught me this lesson. Specifically the Studio Classic. I absolutely adore that amp but DAMN is it ever the audio equivalent of hanging out white sheets on a sunny day 😩 Treble and presence around 1/ 2, mid at 6/ 7, bass at 7/ 8 and Master & Pre-amp at 7 (attenuated!) with a clean boost. Absolute bliss 👌
My old jcm 800 50w mv settings were mid and treble and presence on full. Bass about 4. Angled guitar 4x12 cab, straight bass 4x12,sm57 on each.. Could actually kill people from 50 paces.. do not try this at home.
@@markdavies2115 Well I’m staying at my girlfriend’s at the moment so I’ll try it there 😉 I just this morning tried it with bass & treble at 7 and mid & presence dimed. Holy fuckin’ mother of thrash 🔥 Almost unbearable stood directly in-front of the speakers but off to the side I was absolutely in heaven (or hell I guess?). Gonna swap out the V30s for something a little warmer soon in hoping I can get a slightly smoother more “80s” lead tone. Such an ace amp though. I can’t believe I ever sold my first one!
This video is so important! it's so hard not to fall into this trap. And it just gets crazier when you factor in how the ear perceives frequencies as loudness changes.
I have my Mini Recto's clean channel in fairly extreme settings (gain at 11:00, treble at 3:30, mid at 11:00, bass at 2:30, presence past 3:00), sometimes I might dial back the treble (decreases gain too) and dime the presence. The dirty channel, I almost always have the bass at 9:00. I've also found a great suggestion for a tone with mid and treble dimed and bass completely off, sounds pretty marshall-y in Vintage mode. It's like because rectos are known for being "fizzy", it feels wrong to turn the treble up so much.
Very helpful indeed, I don't own any tube amp, I only use digital multi effects, and straight to the PA in live situation, but here's the thing, adjusting the eq in your amp is indeed helpful in the shaping of your tone, even in multi effects it's very important, useful thing I recently discover to make sure your guitar not drowning in the mix or live situation is to dial your tone (especially the eq) side to side with a song, that way we can listen if the tone is clear enough or drowning (especially careful with the bass), and it work well for me, start the eq at noon and adjust from there while playing with a song/track, oh and for multi effects it's better if we use studio monitor for tone shaping, and sorry for the grammar english is my second language hehe...
I really agree with your point. Especially using Mk V 35
My Mesa Roadster. It depended on the guitar, but I have always had to lower the bass at least to 9:00 and crank up the presence on the third channel at least to 4-5 PM. That improved clarity and added saturation.
I may be wrong but my understanding is that on most guitar amplifiers, EQ controls are passive just like the Volume and Tone knobs on a guitar, while the controls that affect the power amp such as Presence, Resonance, etc. are shelf boosts. That means the "technically correct" way to dial a guitar amp would be to start with the EQ controls fully cranked and the boosts controls at 0, then start by removing what you don't like in the tone by turning down the EQ controls, and then finish by adding what's still missing with the boost controls. Maybe that's why so many vintage Marshall users say that their amp sounds its best when fully dimed?
That is correct. However, there isn't really a true correct way. I'm just trying to bring the point across that you shouldn't be afraid to dial in amps to more extremes if it sounds good. But you brought up a good point for sure!
@@SonicDriveStudio That's why I put "technically correct" in quotes. ;) We tend to be too conservative when dialing an amp or even a pedal, and a video like this one was much needed for the guitar community!
Great examples here! While not as extreme as a Mesa, or even the Fireball, the Bogner Ecstasy 101B is another one that takes some fairly aggressive EQ moves to really bring out the clarity and top end and radically change the sound, at least on mine. And considering that I have seen some people complain about it being too dark (which it is with everything around noon), I assume that mine is not unique.
I believe on those the treble knob is tapered such that at noon it’s like a Marshall treble knob at 9:00. Which is why they sound dark all knobs at noon.
Agreed! I’m curious though what sounds Jon would come up with when taking a 101B for a spin🤓
READ ME: Some notes just to clarify some things that have come up:
- The title to the video wasn't meant to be taken very literally. I'm not saying "you're all doing it wrong all the time" etc. I guess it's meant to get your attention and since you're reading this I guess it worked :). If you watch the video you'll see what I'm talking about. It's just some food for thought and perhaps a different/fresh perspective.
- Of course every amp is different, that's the whole point. Use your ears. There are NO rules! Try to find what sounds good to you.
- Speakers, pickups, guitars, pedals etc. etc. Also have an impact on the tone, of course.
- The settings in the thumbnail and in the video are just an example. Don't be afraid to experiment and find what works for you. These are just some settings that work well for me on these particular amps and I thought they were a good example of amps that benefit from more extreme settings.
Have you ever experienced this? What's an amp that you're tried that needed extreme settings for it to sound good?
Cheers everyone!
Brother, what audio interface You use ?
I’ve seen so many guys all over the world that goes bass - max. mids - 0. Treble 1 o’clock on a peavy 6505
you know, I almost fucked up jajaja, a friend of mine offered me a Mesa mark v 90 combo por a good price, but I didn't know this valuable info, I started dialing in with all the pots at 12 o 'clock, it wasn't a good tone, I was about to Pass on this deal, but then I watched JP videos on Mark v and his JP2c, matched his extreme EQ settings and wow I loved it, so i bought it and couldn't be happier with it,
I noticed this info important, there are some Videos from some guitar players that tried this amp with no extreme settings and sold it, big mistake, there is one that called Mark v disappointment watching the video you can tell that he didn't tweek jaja
My Marshall DSL100HR (ultra gain od1). I thought it sounded "thin" for the longest time until I dimed out the bass (depending on the guitar) and the mid controls. I also turned down the treble to around 3 oclock and turned up the presence (i guess this is common on marshall amps)
Luckily for me I don't have to work too hard for good tones from my amps as I have awesome cabs to choose from. I personally struggle more with clean tones. Have trouble getting those big chimy clear tones. As for mid and high gain, I got that under control all day long. Rather, my cabs have that under control. With a good cab, most of the work is already done.
Jon can we do this with some cleans? I know its not the channels claim to fame but I'm sure some of us could benefit greatly from learning your approach to cleans.
Great video ! Would be great to have a part 2 with other amp like the 6505, EVH, soldano... 🙌
Great and informational video, broskee!!
A/B comparison really demonstrates what you’re talking about 👍🏻
great job jon. yeah some bogners can be strange with the mids and presence controls.
As a mark v:35 owner, I totally agree that the mids knob on the second channel is very subtle. At one point I thought it was faulty lol. And yes, don’t be afraid to turn all the knobs, and slide the graphic eq, as far as required 🤘🏼
Very insightful video, cheers!
That was mental - thanks for sharing!
This was great, you could really hear the difference, even through RUclips.
Thanks for this, great info
Thanks for finally saying this. Pre RUclips no one ever considered leaving tone controls at noon on tube amps. Opened for Quiet Riot one time and Carlos’ tech ran his hand across the top of the knobs to dime everything. Lol
I actually like the Fireball’s noon voicing for certain styles, but there’s a lot of range between the EQ dials to create fairly versatile tones across the board and of course, as per this video, that very upper mid-focussed and present tone that epitomises the amp’s name. I think that one of the potentially ultimate ENGL amps could be the core Fireball design but with the tone shaping options of the Powerball II.
Getting a Powerball soon. I'm so stoked!
@@SonicDriveStudio Great to hear. I’m sure it can be an excellent addition to your collection. My own experience with the Powerball II was very positive, especially in terms of the tone shaping options, I just found the Fireball 100’s overall voicing and gain structure to be more aggressive and to my liking.
Agree but if you want to stand out in the mix throw a Equalizer into the FX loop. I'm using a simple MXR 10 band Eq and you can dial in anything you want n still get that Massive Holy Shit Distortion/ Keep Rawking it...
Black Sabbath was born out of that muddiness, too. It really depends on what you want in a mix. I tend to make my "background" instruments more muddy and the fore stuff gets brighter treatment. But if you want those ultra-tight palm mutes, then you have to go away from the noonish mentality in nearly every case.
I'm 38 been playing for 25 years... never ever understood the scooped mids thing. great vids btw
I do this with my Diezel Herbert. Mids almost all the way and the treble about 2:30 - 3. The Herbert can get lost in the mix if not dialed in right. The mid cut is cool only in the studio, when layering tones.
Its amzing when u finaly get used to the simplest marshall amp ,eg when u ear start to appreciate the the mid boost and contour also u learn to not push the gain too much aswell plus it brings the attributes out of certain guitars aswell...an SG sounds cool with a slight gain rathar than turning up to 10 ...u will enjoy playing for longer aswell
AFAIC , all these tones sounded great . It just depends on what suits the song. A “producer’s ear” is key here because a great sound in the studio (isolated) doesn’t mean it’s the best on the mix overall.
Love your videos.🇨🇦
Interesting concept that Mr. Sonic. I've formulated an unthrodox method myself; double-boost, mids and treble on the amp maxed with no bass, bass EQ in the fx loop with a slight boost on the lows: blissssssss ✌
Good explanation. Thanks
It'something I've experienced on lots of amps. And there is an electronic explanation about this: as far as majority of tone stack consists into take frequencies away, to crank tonestack just let all the frequencies pass thru. A cranked tone stack should be considered as a starting point when dialing up your tone!
Correct. Most amps use passive EQ, which only cuts. Full up on each band lets the most sound at that frequency through. The Mesa would be the exception to this, as they use an active tone stack which can either cut or boost, so middle of the knob’s range should be your starting point.
Incredible!!! I always thought just that
Great video!
I didn't ever get good at EQ until I bought a Marshall Super Lead which pretty much only has one sound regardless of EQ at high enough volume. Made me realise how flubby, overly dark and inarticulate my other amps were because I was afraid to push the higher frequency settings!
this is absolutely the truth (every amp has an eq "sweet spot")...it's also always a good idea to boost your mids when playing with a band...
Yeah... I feel the same! Big thanx!
Thank you very much for this Vid. Engl fireball 100 FTW
wow huge difference! Thanks for this tip! My cheap valveking sounds much better now!
Everytime I needed a tight tone and I use to keep mid and bass pretty much at 50% and presence at 40%. The tone was thick and muddy. Thanks I needed this video for a long time ago for my Engl.
Holy fucking shit ov hellfire and steel! I'm completely overwhelmed! Goddammit!
I play the guitar for about 30 years now and never ever tried something like this.
After I saw your video today I tried it with my Powerball 2 and Rectifier Solo Head and I'm only a huge WOW!
This is incredible as incredible can be. Holy cow! 😅
Thank you so much for opening up my mind!
Good info! Thanks!
YEP! Thats very close to what I do! Lows loke half, mids 3 thirds, highs all the way up
Thanks, fireball 100 is a monster once it’s set up right, sounds best with v30s and they love orange cabs
Awesome this is exactly how i have set the EQ on my engl powerball. Those amps need mids and highs
yes, thanks for educating us to turn eq knobs until the amp sounds to taste :))
Had a similar problem with the Carvin V3. But it was not the EQ itself, more the fact that it sounds weird with the master volume turned down and much better with it turned up even when the channel volumes are turnned nearly all the way down.
*looks at his SC20 and JCM800* hmmm... But great point, it applies to a lot of amps. Certainly the Engl Screamer I have, I could never figure out how to dial in, until my friend just went to town on the controls.
The zero middle and bass on the Boogie is just wild to me.....And it sounds so good too....!! Is this some kinda trick!!! mind blown!!!
It's radical but it sounds great! :)
Thanks, cool stuff. Was guilty of 12o'clock-ism
Yup! The Orange Dark Terror - crank that shape knob to the right most of the way, then dial the gain right back to 12 o’clock ish (depending on your pick up output) then run a full level, zero gain tubescreamer in front for tight, percussive palm mutes…
Hi Jon. Great content as usual! Can you please tell me the best eq settings for the Victory Super kraken. Many thanks. 👍
great video man can you show some extreme eq settings on marshall jmp-1?
Everyone who knows me thinks I'm obsessed with MIDs however when they hear my PRS MT15 live they understand that I flatten everything 😃 I run a boost in front and brighten treble post EQ but I have my amp settings bass noon, mids max, treble zero and presence max 😯
Not just amps: I'm all digital & portable and I still have this problem with most of the amp models in my little MFX pedals running direct to PA. They mostly default to "noon" across the board which makes almost everything sound thick and flubby. I'm getting better at dialing my sounds in with them, and now I have several custom patches where the EQs are pretty extreme to find that tight sound that can cut through a muddy mix without getting shrill.
I feel like the Carvin Legacy is a great example of this. It's a pretty dark amp, so unless you want to get totally buried in the mix, you have to do some radical EQ moves! I usually have both the treble and the presence quite high on it.
Amazing diference, man!
I love Load, what a cool album
I have never been afraid to use EQ. After all, in addition to the different parameters in front of the amp that I mentioned earlier, the overall setting still plays a role. Rehearsal room, living room, with the band or alone.
I always screw until I am satisfied. Unfortunately, this is never the case, because even the ear reacts differently on different days.
I'll need to try that on my Mark V:35. I normally have the treble at around 1 o'clock, with the rest the same as your second one.
I had a marshall jvm 210h and used to run the bass on full, mid on half and treble on 3/4s on the crunch mode on channel 1.
I did some slight variation of this with any marshall I had. Just sounded right to me.
Same with my Laney, full Bass, mid 5, treble 4-5, set brightness with tone knob
Boogie Mark series amps are famos for not being usable with everything at noon for high gain sounds.
You mainly dial the tone with the graphic EQ.
Theres a very good video called something like "Treble dumping a Mark V 25", it's a good watch.
I have always tried to tweak all my amps to explore new tones and how responsive they are and yeah, I have to admit that in some of them the sweet spot is at noon, but as I see it the gear used affects the tone too.
Cool. I’ll try it
Thats amazing. Can you please post a pissed off, mean setting for Orange Rocker 15 , I saw one of your video where you have used that amp. I would like to try the setting in my amp.
Generally speaking, tone controls on guitar amps are passive, which means that they can only subtract volume (unlike audio amps where controls are active and can also add volume).
Passive controls turned fully clockwise permit the signal to pass unchanged, turning them ccw they lower the volume of that frequency.
AWESOME!
I really like my Mark 5:25 with eq similar to this but with lower gain on the amp and a relatively transparent overdrive like a Way Huge Saucy Box or JHS Morning Glory in front. I'm not sure why but it sounds better to me than only using the amps' gain.
Yea I'm still working on dialing in my EQs on my Diezel D-moll.....AND what i need changes depending on which guitar I use. I really haven't found that "set and forget" setting I like.
The Bogner Uberschall is definitely an example of an amp you need to dial in with your ears and not your eyes. Some of the knobs react very differently than on other amps, which leads some people to have a hard time finding their tone with the amp.
For sure, since the presence control is more for the higher mids.
@@jonathanguerrero7394 yeah, and the treble knob doesn't do too much until 3 o'clock, and the starts generating a ton of treble after that point.
My Super Kraken has all the EQ knobs are pretty much noon. It’s sounds awesome.
I like the way the Fireball 100 sounds with the Mid Boost on, Bass at 3.5, Mid right in the middle, Treble at about 7.5-8, Lead Gain at like 2, Lead Volume at 3, Master at 3+, Presence at 4. Place a tube screamer in front of the amp, or a clean boost of some kind. I use both the Xotic RC Booster for clean boost, then the Xotic Soul Driven for the tube screamer boost, and man does it get fuckin CHUNKY up in here. I also engage the Bottom switch half the time because, just goddamn. This is the best amp I’ve ever owned hands down.
Yes, with my Crate Blue Voodoo 120 I kept the presence dialed all the way down.
I love how the Fireball sounds. I finally have to get one lol
Amazing amp!
I did go the other way around........ I started with some extreme EQing (not in a good way) and now, I start at noon and listen what I hear, want to add or remove. Or, I turn everything down, start with the hi end and work my way back to the low end so I can hear what everything is doing.
i notice in my blackstar ht club 40 mkll, in the overdrive channel, the bass comes to lose after 6 , down it and set the volumen control on 5.5 or 6 to ad some tight low end,
Would be great a comparison between fireball 100 vs powerball mk2. And see what they have in pros/cons