The Hunt for Red October, Lost in Adaptation ~ The Dom
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- Опубликовано: 3 апр 2016
- The Dom takes a look at Tom Clancy's first book that went on to become a film to see how close they managed to keep it.
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One of my favorite lines comes from this movie. The U.S. Secretary of State (or whatever role Richard Jordan plays) says, "I'm a politician which means if I'm not kissing babies, I'm stealing their lollipops." Bearing this in mind is very helpful when dealing with politicians .
National Security Advisor
@@fireshack6485 isnt it funny that the US have 2 NSAs
@@chheinrich8486 lots of shared acronyms in the Federal government.
Richard Jordan who co-starred in the first Jack Ryan film was the original choice to play Dr. Charles Nichols, the main villain of *"The Fugitive",* the 1993 film remake of the 1963-67 TV series, starring Harrison Ford (who played Jack Ryan in the 2nd & 3rd Jack Ryan film; though the original Jack Ryan, Alec Baldwin, was among those considered for Dr. Richard Kimble). Sadly, Jordan fell ill from a brain tumor - passing away
3 weeks after the film release -
and had to be replaced by Jeroen Krabbé (who was the main Bond villain of *"The Living Daylights").*
i have a very tech savvy friend who is studying to be an engineer tell me about how Tom Clancy frequently got visits from the US government over how he managed to crack their super secret tech, and said friend paraphrased clancy saying all clancy did was put a little thought and a lot of civilian research as in visiting the library. said friend also added that this is because due to the laws of nature being fairly immutible there is a very limited number of ways to achieve soemthing and achieve it well so if you know your applied physics you can pretty much figure out any brand new super secret tech:)
i think this is also why so mch famous hard scifi athors end up predicting the future: they did what any old scientist or engineer would do and research and expirament:D
Or _predict_ geostationery communication satellites... **cough*ArthurCClarke*cough**
😊😊😊
Reminds me of how Operation Overlord was something of an open secret among Allied soldiers, due to the fact that lots of people were able to figure out what they were going to be doing by putting together little clues from their training, like paratroopers knowing how far they'd be going from the length of their training flights, knowing they'd only be dropped in such numbers to support an amphibious assault, and having maps to see what parts of the European coast were in range. The Allied (or at least US, I don't know about the others) command was frantic, trying to figure out their leak, until a few low-level officers with no contact with one another explained pretty much exactly the same thing.
With the add that writers have great imaginations so research + creativity = genius inventions
I read the book in 2004, in what would be the middle of my naval service as a radar tech. With all that technical jargon and attention to the details, it was practically written just for my sort. And I love the hell out of both the book and the film.
Not only do I not accept your baited anti-Semitic premise, but the officers weren't developed enough as characters to have clues one way or the other without being a racist pos about it.
"Let them sing" Freakin love this movie.
12:41
Slight cross cultural note, that does tend to happen a lot in U.S. fiction for a number of reasons. For one, not naming the President directly or making up a fictional one allows the author a kind of audience appeal as a real life, specific, president is simply not going to be popular with all of the reader base. The second and less political reason is that it gives the story at least a small bit of timelessness as obviously the office is permanent but who's sitting in it changes every four or eight years. (Of course, in this instance, the Cold War specifically dates the timeline of the film and book, but nevertheless it is a practice here in the States.)
also the ryan books deviate from our world a bit. for example not korea is parted in two, but vietnam.
Nobody ever talks about "President Smith" or "President Jones". There's no need. Except for newspapers, it's always just "the President" (or "that asshole", which also is constant, just shifts according to who's occupying the office.)
"There's a recurring theme of submarine captains not being able to shake the belief that they are God's gift to the Navy in Clancy's work." That's because Clancy had met actual submarine captains. I can assure you that's damn near 100% accurate.
My husband was a sub sailor at the time the movie was being made and released. (In fact, that's footage of his boat doing the emergency blow.) When it premiered, just about everyone in the audience opening night was obviously a sailor. There was an occasional bit in the movie that got laughs of recognition, at the end the audience applauded. Successful adaptation, overall.
To be fair to Clancy, he *did* try to join the Army Reserve Officer's Training Corps, but was unable to serve, due to his poor eyesight.
'Jolly good' has not been said in Britain for
-50 years-
-20 years-
-8 years-
-1 year-
2 weeks
Damnit Dom! :p
+Midorikonokami I didn't even know it was possible to put lines through words on youtube....
+The Dom use dashes - - touching the word, and bottom dashes _ _ to make italics. If you use asterixes * * it should turn to bold.
Midorikonokami -Thanks-
Well, -Howdy- from Texas y'all. :P Stereotypes and such.
*Boom*
The Tu-95 could have known that they were attacking the Red October. ASW aircraft are capable of prosecuting contacts by themselves and because the Red October was using it's normal propulsion system when attacked, the Tu-95 could have classified the contact the same way how any submarine could. Also, in the book they mention the Soviets having the only accurate maps for the area they're engaged in and since they'd know the locations of their other submarines, detecting an unidentified submarine would in itself point towards the Red October.
This.
Modern sonar is capable of classifying contacts by analyzing the sound frequencies of the engine & screws. Including air-dropped sonobuoys like those which would be used by the Tu-95 which dropped the torpedo. Such was alluded to in the sonar shack on USS Dallas during the movie.
Unfortunately this wasn't the only technical mistake in this vid, but he did mention that he was never interested in this stuff at the beginning so it was expected.
I’m so happy you covered this book and movie. My dad( naval aviator vet) LOVES both but you can imagine how hurt he was when the type of plane he flew, P-3 Orion, wasn’t featured in the film. As sub hunters, P-3s were mentioned in the novel which was amazing because they often get overlooked. We honestly can’t watch this movie without him getting upset.
I love the main theme of the movie, sung by the Red Army Choir!
Basil Poledouris for the win!
Hunt for Red October was the first (and probably last) time I ever watched a movie adaptation right on the heels of having read the book.
Watching that movie, I was bored out of my mind. I enjoyed the book SO much more.
Well jolly good show if I do say so my good chap.
bloddy right!
Pip pip.
Right? Right. You're bloody well right. You've got a blood right to say!
Poor Brits, getting cut out of American productions. Hey, at least you have all of Harry Potter. The US gets like one passing mention in the book Goblet of Fire and never in the films, so that has to count for something right?
Oh wait, Fantastic Beasts is going to take place in New York isn't it? Hey, at least the main character is still British!(I think...)
When I die I want the movie's main theme playing as I slip away into eternity. Damn I love that score.
+3rdOfficerTaylor Daaaamn thats a really morbid way of saying you like something XD
+The Dom That theme tune is epic though. So god damn cool. It perfectly fits in with the tone of the movie lol.
05:48 It's a fairly common thing in the military. Military work and life is very stressful (which is amped up even more in a combat situation or standoff) and despite the health hazards, the nicotine helps to calm nerves. Not to mention tobacco and caffeine drinks are pretty much the only legal drugs (other than over the counter and prescription medicines) that are allowed to be used on the war front (alcohol is not due to the obvious side effects. Other than the extremely rare near-beer due to it's extremely low alcohol content.). There's a reason alcohol and tobacco usage and abuse is a serious issue in so many military organizations. Or to paraphrase what an Army NCO tell might say to the lower ranking personnel, "Do you want me chewing on this snuff or do you want me to be chewing you out instead?" As you can imagine, I'd let him keep his tin of Copenhagen.
Any stressfull job is full of smokers.
I worked in a hospital once and I tell you, everyone, from doctors to nurses to all other personell were chain-smokers.
13th Warrior was based on the book, "Eaters Of The Dead", by Michael Crichton.
I have been thoroughly entertained having accidentally fallen down the RUclips rabbit hole and into your series. An insightful and humorous journey which has made me rethink how I view an adaptation. Keep it up, good sir...unfortunate phrasing.
+Erin Smith Aww, you didn't say jolly good anywhere haha
+BovinaSancta79 No I didn't. Jolly good...dang it!
Erin Smith
Yay, nice :D
Valkyrie also does the language switch over and if I remember correctly so does Defiant. So yeah mostly historical military films, kind of giving Hunt Of The Red October a slightly more authentic feel in retrospect even though it's fiction.
Jesus, three within just two weeks? Boy do I feel lucky.
There was at least one other movie with the language switchover - The 13th Warrior. And it did it pretty well, too
+Alexander Sinclaire The 13th Warrior did it slightly differently as it was more of a montage of Antonio Banderas listening to them talk and learning their language. It wasn't just the film magically starting to translate for us.
+The Dom You are right that it was maybe too different from this.
+Alexander Sinclaire And "To Be Or Not To Be" with the in-universe announcement: "For the interests of clarity and sanity, the rest of the film will not be in Polish".
+Alexander Sinclaire Also Valkyrie did it quite well in the very beginning.
I loved The 13th Warrior. Why did everyone hate it?
The switchover was actually a homage to the movie Judgement at Nuremberg.
Exactly my thought. That was the only major film (at the time) that I remembered making the language switch in the same manner.
I believe that the unavailability of Royal Navy ships may have been the reason we didn't see any in the film.
I don't think there has to be a distinct hero when it comes to things that are supposed to be entirely believable as real; we make shit happen in cooperation, and no single person always has to make the biggest difference.
It makes the whole thing feel bigger and more threatening when executed right, and not like 90% of the people were just incompetent idiots who really shouldn't be there. It makes sense in this movie that there was no one hero, and that it was a collection of people that acted competently, yet had their doubts, but nonetheless took the jump...and succeeded as a result.
Loved your review! As a US Navy brat who lived across the Patuxent River from Mr. Clancy, I read the book long before the movie came out. He was known to have deep connections with Navy folk all around the Chesapeake Bay. There are many very detailed descriptions of facilities in that area in many of his books. I loved them both in different ways....the book for its detail and the movie for its "good enough" portrayal and intensity. Glad to see a Clancy book and hope you do more......Thanks mate!
You totally missed an opportunity to say, "They did a jolly good job" at the end there.
The issue with just reading red October is that it's part of 10 book big c wrote in the jack Ryan line and many of the characters and events that were not important in that book become more so later on and a lot of the characters come back and become more important as the stories go on. But if your not into long winded books it's not for you though the British do play large roles in many and then the Russians later on.
I was looking for a comment like this! Yeah the thing about Cardinal doesn't need to be mentioned in the movie because it isn't needed to set up a future book all about him, and the readers theoretically already care about Jack Ryan from having read previous books, so we don't need to spend as much time getting to know him.
Both the book and the movie are really, really well made. They are, however, completely different, and even though the movie changes a lot of the plot (and, even more so, the tone) of the book it's still very entertaining and cohesive.
I realize this is an old video... but the other Tom Clancy Book/Movie you should do is Clear and Present Danger.
There's one scene in the book that just sticks in my mind. When they're in the War Room watching the raid on the terrorist camp via satellite... the book describes the scene in such a way that you can picture it even better than it was filmed.
Torpedo drop from plane was pretty normal, at the time October was running on propellers which means plane with dropped sonar could easily identify October.
It's a great film, one of my favourites, and definitely better than its source.
The the soundtrack is Epic, especially the sequence for 'Red Route I'.
For some reason, this movie is still one of my favourite ^^
There a great 'switchover' in 13th Warrior , also McTiernan
I'd love to see a Lost in Adaptation of Ella Enchanted, both the book and the movie are very nostalgic for me
I enjoyed both the movie and the novel. I had forgotten that the novel included the British Navy, so thanks for pointing that out.
So happy you did this I did knowledge the Royal Navy! One of my favorite films growing up and really enjoyed Patrick Willems recent analysis of the role of translation in movie versions.
I have an odd request for a review, The General's Daughter. I personally enjoyed both the film and book but what struck me was the TONE between the two. Just wanted to throw that out there.
I haven't seen any requests for this so I'll have to state that I would personally LOVE to see you do Northern Lights/The Golden Compass. I have a HUGE beef with that movie, but would like to see somebody else give a more subjective view. Past that I'd also really like to see you do "Contact" one day.
Jolly good review and comparison, old chap. Top notch!
America needs to learn to share the credit? Tom Clancy was American and he gave loads of credit to the British! I think you mean HOLLYWOOD needs to learn to share the credit. ;)
Although I suspect the lack of the British in the film might have had more to do with the fact that they had cast prominent English, Scottish, Irish & New Zealand actors as Russians. Not only did that mean the British actors cast as actual Brits might have seemed relatively underwhelming (how can you compete with Connery, Curry & Neill?!), it might have caused some audience confusion.
+Awakeandalive1 Also, as a child in the UK in the '80s, I heard many people say "jolly good." Just putting that out there. Maybe it's a matter of region or class or sommat?
This is one of the few examples where I enjoyed the movie more than I did the book.
Another movie with a switch over with voices is The 13th Warrior. It works remarkably well there. Could be a good adaptation to do considering it is based upon Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead.
That was more of a short montage of Antonio Banderas learning the language while listening.
It warms my heart to see adaptations that can improve on the original work however they can. I hate the phrase "the original is always best" as it spits on how much work can go into a good adaptation or even sequel. Great review Dom :)
Always one of my favorites, with my dad having been in the Navy, who worked on submarines, we watched a lot of movies based on them.
The Hunt for Red October being my go-to example of a good movie adaptation, I feel vindicated to hear a professional shares my opinion!
HfRE is a regular watch in my household and we have seen it dozens of times.
My personal favorite line is the second visit from the Russian ambassador, when he literally comes "hat in hand" to see Jeffery Pelt, who gives him a hard glare before saying, "Andrei, do you mean to tell me that you have lost **another** submarine?" (whilst stealing a piece of candy from the bowl on the desk.) It slays me every time.
Another line that slays me, but for the wrong reasons, is when Jonesy tells Capt. Mancuso that the noises he was hearing sound like singing. The captain fails to ask him **what** they are singing and there is no universe in which Jonesy would not recognize the freaking Soviet freaking national anthem.
Not related at all to this review, but the plot point of Jack Ryan being afraid to fly is lazy scriptwriting, and even lazier storytelling. His fear of flight DOES NOT MATTER TO THE STORY. He will obviously HAVE TO FLY PLACES and the extra time wasted in telling us that he is afraid of it is wasted.
Also not related to this review but a sore spot in this movie is the fighter plane crash on the carrier deck. First, the footage is clearly so much older than the film. Second, every flight onto or off of that carrier would be scrubbed indefinitely whilst there was an investigation of every technician, repair log, tool kit etc.
None of my complaints distracts from the awesomeness of this movie and I very much enjoyed this review. Cheers!
I always liked the part in the book where the russians are amazed that everyone has a car. I can't remember but I'm pretty sure they got shown around a supermarket too.
You know the idea of a story not really having a main character, or at least one true hero, is pretty appealing to me, I don't really have enough interest in the navy to really try it with this book but it's an interesting idea.
just watched the movie yesterday evening for the first time in YEARS after listening to the jack ryan audiobooks last winter on my extended daily travels and i thought "damn, wouldn't it be nice if the Dom made a video about that one. and you already did ^^ and yeah, it's one of my all time favourite adaptations. And it's just great moviemaking. fucking tense all the way through. no fussing. very nice ^^
You forgot the movie also left out the part where the Americans intentionally drove a bus full of the Red October's rescued Russian sailors through a busy American city so they could see what life was really like on the other side of the Iron Curtain in the hopes that more of them would defect.
I always laugh about the fish bowl on the sub in movie. I loved both. Good job!
Captain "Mansuco"? :p
Also as someone who was more of the intended audience I enjoyed the book a lot in addition to the movie, making both of them my favourite Clancy book and adaptation of one of his book.
It also helps that, as you mentioned in the review, it has a great soundtrack by the late Basil Poledouris.
Truthfully, i struggled to get through the book for the aforementioned reasons. So i picked up the audiobook version and loved it. Both the film and novel do the central story justice, but i do find the final battle in the book to be far more awesome. I can understand why it was changed for the film, but i still find the films portrayal less appealing now
Valkyrie also did the change over.
I did have to double take for a second when I saw this pop up but am I so glad it did. Don't think I'll read the book since I have a minor interest in the Cold War but won't go out of my way to read about it, thanks again for another great vid here Dom
Keep it coming, Dom! Great stuff
YES! Thank you! Love the book and enjoy the film!
Great episode :). Seriously. I am actualy maybe inclined to check the book out, not for the Cold War stuff, but because I have an interest in learning some military history of many nations. From what you said, it gives a nice bit of potential history of the British Military.
Mr. Dom, I was wondering if you would ever considering do an episode based on Field of Dreams? A lot of people don't realize it was an adaptation, but it was. I think you could have a lot of fun doing that would, and it would be something new, since I do not believe you have ever done a sports movie adaptation, of sorts.
I remember hearing once that after the book was released, the FBI talked to Tom Clancy, wanting to know how he got such an intimate knowledge of nuclear submarines.
Funny thing about Akula (Typhoon for NATO) Class Subs (the class Red October belongs to) is that its so big it has a Pool inside it.
The last one (Dimitri Danskoi) is also now a test base for Missiles.
Pretty good channel I just stumbled upon. Keep up the good work.
The quality of the book, "The Hunt For Red October" came from the fact that Clancy advertised in the local news papers, that he wanted to interview submariners. He bought them lunch and, they spoke about (non-technical) life aboard nuclear submarines. Having the "human touch" about the crew plus the technical information about submarines in the public sector, allowed him to write a truly great story!! I ordered the book at the first offering by the US Naval Press.
I would love for you to do a Spiderwick Chronicles episode. I haven't seen that movie in years but I remember it being pretty good.
Just watched it last night and found it just as exciting as the first time I saw it, hit all the cylinders! And yes, the U.S. does seem to have a problem with sharing credit,we're still a young country. So be patient with us anyway.:D
Jolly good work, Dom.
Wow Dom, a lot of content in rapid succession. Is this a rare treat, or have you made enough via crowdfunding to start ramping up the speed of production?
+Titanium Bunny Yes and no, Patreon has let me reduce my hours at work drastically but I still doubt I can keep the one video a week thing going much longer. Just been on a roll recently.
Woah woah woah. You use the British pronunciation of Soviet but the American pronunciation of route?
I demand you apologize! To the Queen! IN PERSON!
+Salfordio (he explained the mismatched accent thing in his Q&A- that's probably the reason)
Did you ironically use the american spelling of "apologize"
Dear The Dom: I would like to ask if you would consider doing a lost in adaptation on the film adaptation of The Waterhorse, I request this as it is an appalling adaptation that not only fails in the story in some places but also the characters as for some reason they decide to switch the main character of the book with a secondary character from the book, this little example must at least make you think it's an interesting case that would be very fun to look at.
I'm not sure where I'm suppose to make suggestions but I'd love to see an episode on The Perks of Being a Wallflower. I've both read the book and seen the movie.
Wait, I'm supposed to pronounce Soviet differently? Hmm. Never heard it pronounced that way before. Still, I first heard the word by growing up on C&C so, that's what I was familiar with, if I have heard it said differently.
I would really like The Dom to do a Lost in Adaptation of the Cadfael TV series from the mid 90's and the original Peter Ellis medieval mystery book series like he did for the Sharpe TV series
Dom you just said jolly good :p
+sliceanddicecoat LIIIIIEEESSS
+The Dom Sadly you did Dom. So by internet rules, you must be mocked. YOU DID IT, YOU DID IT, YOU DID IT! :)
+The Dom don't worry The Dom, we love you no matter what.
+rezevilfan Haha Pip pip cheerio teatime and all that
I remember trying to read this book back in high school. I gave up pretty quickly because of all the in-depth technical explanations about everything. I'm sure military enthusiasts loved it, but it just bogged everything down. Kind of like the economics stuff at the beginning of Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
This is one of the few instances where I have read the book and seen the movie.
Dom - the switch from one language at the beginning of a movie to English later was also done with the movie Valkyrie. Which came out in like 2008. It's an excellent movie if you haven't already watched it or just forgot it.
Having done this, you should definitely do THE SUM OF ALL FEARS.
What is ironic about the omission of the Royal Navy, in the modern movie market which very much depends on having a global audience not only would the Royal Navy be included, along with some French destroyers and you can bet mention of Chinese navel vessels offering intelligence would be mentioned (which would not be fair fetched, at this point China was closer to the US than the USSR, and in turn the USSR was closer to the US than to China, we actually mediated some of their more contentious interactions).
Have you ever concidered doing 'Eye of the Needle' by Ken Follett, and the film of the same name starring Donald Sutherland?
I really like the trapped but free feeling they go for
1:54 TOM CLSNCY: THS HUNT FOR RSD OCTOBSR
Another great review.
Judgement at Nuremberg also did the switch over.
John Hintergardt aeh you mean Nürnberg?
Well this was a jolly good video.
I wonder what the chances are that at least part of the reason the Royal Navy wasn't in there was because Hollywood couldn't get permission to show them.
+Jami JoAnne Russell I don't think government military organisations are copyrighted.... Wait... ARE they?!
I would think you need to get SOME sort of permission. Since you're showing their equipment, rankings, uniforms, etc.
+The Dom
I remember reading that while making Black Hawk Down, the Rangers showed a lot of the actors military maneuvers, but not all of them. So maybe the Royal Navy really didn't want to tell a bunch of movie makers what they wanted.
+The Dom In the US some of the emblems of the armed forces are copyrighted :-) Mostly to prevent them from being used in ways that are unfavorable to the military. Also in the theme of the Royal Navy not being in the movie..... expense. They already have to show US and Soviet uniforms and now you want them to throw in another country's navy?
Valkyrie also did a similar language switching thing early on
jolly good review, Dom
Can confirm that I say jolly good now and again,
You're just pumping these out like there's no tomorrow! XD
Language switch was also done in 13th warrior.
Are you sure Skip Tyler's leg isn't a prosthesis? The clunk it makes as he rests it on the drawer doesn't sound very flesh-like. Also as he does that he grabs on to it and lifts it, indicating that there's no muscle in the leg to lift it up by itself.
Jolly good review.
That was a jolly good review. I have watched the movie and read the book countless times.
It's one of the books, where the chapters are real time information, so you can... read it in real time in December
(for comparison: "The name of the rose" also has a real time frame.... but read faster. Much faster. )
great insight as always. I was hoping to ask if you could do "Goodnight Mister Tom"
Dom I sat through a trump ad because I thought it might even slightly help with revenue and if that doesn't say how much I love your work I don't know what can
Dom spoiling us lately.
Yeah Basil Poledouris knocked this one out of the park as usual. A great score.
Hey i loved the review but i did want to correct one thing. You said that the russian anti sub plane couldnt have known the differnce between the red october and an american sub. Surprisingly, a submarine running at speed (15+ knots) makes a fair bit of noise, especially here as red octobers catipillar is out. That plane would be able to passively pick up the red october via its airdropped sonobouys and could match the sound profile to a library of suarine sound profiles. This way, one can litterally tell not only the class of ship, but even sometimes which individual ship in a class it is. Seeing as there were only 6 other typhoon class subs and probably none operating in that part of the atlantic, the tu95 could qiuite probably confirm the red octobers identity. Again great review, keep up the good work!
The Red October was a prototype stealth sub that they couldn't possibly have had a sound profile for, plus you're giving 1980s soviet tec far too much credit.
On top of that like The Dom said, they risked starting world war 3. "Quite probably" wouldn't have cut it and DIDN'T cut it in the book.
You made a good point, but I'd disagree. Well actually the Red October was a Typhoon class slightly enlarged with a stealth drive. True it would have been a prototype, but I would be highly surprised if they didn't pick up an audio signature reading on their own sub as it did sea trials. Even though this was its first voyage, I wouldn't have gone to sea with full crew/weapons loadout without first having done some reasonably extensive sea trials and testing in harbor or right off the coast. Secondly, say Soviet technology isn't good enough to distinguish separate ships in a class, they at the least can tell that there is a typhoon down there. They also would have been told whether or not to expect a Typhoon sub in that area, and it would be highly unlikely for any SSBNs to be in that area. I'm of the belief that even if they couldn't positively identify that it was specifically the Red October, they could be very sure it was the Red October due to the lack of Tyhpoon class subs running around in the middle of the North Atlantic towards the US.
Jolly good Dom.
I love the Dr House clip
Ah, yes, my personal favorite movie of all time.
Don't forget that every character has a minimum of 2 names and more likely 3-5
Ah your such a young kid Dom. Adorable.