There is also the fact that those trapped in the scroll of memory are meant to relive their past deeds, and despite MK and Mei being put in the scroll the same way as the others, by ink dragging them in, only Sandy, Pigsy, and Tang are trapped in the past memories of the pilgrims
If they really are the original pilgrims and not just reincarnations of them I can already picture Tang’s horror once he realizes he broke almost every vow he took as a Buddhist monk. Though I will say this while it’s traditionally impossible for a reincarnation to have memories of their past lives, in JTTW there were multiple cases of celestials who went through reincarnation that were able to regain the memories of their past life mainly through someone telling them about it, and throughout the series Pigsy, Tang, and Sandy have come into contact with a lot of items and enemies that the pilgrims encountered, plus it’s likely that Sandy only started having memory flashes after he picked up meditation, something we have yet to see Tang or Pigsy do. So while your theory is the most likely scenario, there’s still a small chance they could be reincarnations.
I definitely think that in season 5, they will explore more deep into everyone’s past/family (like Mei and the dragon clan) so hopefully we will get to see more of the pilgrims and if they really are tang,Sandy and pigsy
We also know that there is a memory problem going on like the way azure couldn’t remember how he got out of the underworld, and (now I’m not sure of this but I think this is true feel free to search it up) that in an interview with some people working on LMK they specifically say “macaque THINKS wukong killed him” and they didn’t elaborate anymore on that, but they definitely used the word “thinks” for a reason. (Did sun wukong actually kill him? Or was it something else and someone altered the memories of everyone so they THINK that happend???)
I wonder if they are the original pilgrims. It would also make me think Sun Wukong forgot about them as well and thinks they all passed away with him being all alone
True! And Lady Bone Demon, when threatening Sun Wukong and Macaque, doesn't specifically say she'll erase _their_ memories, she says: "I will rip the memory of you from this world" "...I will erase the very memory of you" And both of those statements imply that she'll make it so no one in the world will remember them.
Erease the memories of them, like they never even existent. That’s such a scary thought. But wait. Macaque basicaly went through this experience already, almost no body remembers him. I remeber that, in the chines dup of LMK (thanks to someone in the comments) says "But- it's not like people remember me anyway" when MK confuses him with Wukong on the roof.
Personally think Sandy Tangs and Pigsy probably from old age and Monkey King outliving them which would make relatives dead or in the underworld for their past crimes. Meis Great 1000 grandpa I believe is still alive given the fact the dragon family seem to be immortal but leave their physical bodies behind when they get older and become gods who offer guidance Although tang’s relative I believe could have found a way to be immortal but I doubt he’d stay mortal this day and age and probably has become one with the stars or something
my thoughts are that they are reincartions of the journey to the west pilgrims but not the normal kind in like something happened someone in charge needed them and that's also why MK was made cause whoever it was didn't trust monkey king also i think MK human form wasn't a mistake or cause of the crack but so he would grow up learning empathy and kindness cause it took monkey king way to long to learn that and they don't have time
I do agree that this video covers a major over-arcing mystery. But there's another fact about the character Tang Sanzang that might explain Mr. Tang. Mr. Tang may not need to be a DIRECT descendant, like Mei is to Ao Lie. Tang Sanzang has a back story that leaves room for at least some half-relatives. And famous ancestors, direct or otherwise, can have their names passed down over generations. Supposing Tang Sanzang didn't choose to go back after his 99th (correct the number if wrong) reincarnation, he might have the authority to pass down his powers to a blood relative if deemed crucial to the plot.
Amazing video! As always!Something I wanna bring up is although the memory thing is definitely going on strong and something is definitely affecting them. Something I wanna bring up is that the only two people who's memories weren't messed with are Sun Wukong and Mk's (no I'm not counting him struggling to remember his birth as he was only able to remember inside the scroll of memories and most people don't remember the moment they were born XD) We now that Wukong and Mk are the most powerful out of everyone in the series so most likely their level of power keeps them from getting affected, because otherwise the being doing this should be able to just snatch up their memories just like that But that's just the thing, their memories weren't erased, if they were they wouldn't be able to remember at all. Instead it's like something is surpressing their memories. Keeping them locked away deep inside. But why? Well, Wukong isn't the only one who is a Buddha, so is the monk Tang Sanzang. Buddhas are as powerful as a being could ever be, so how come Tang was affected when technically stuff like that shouldn't be able to even touch him? Pigsy and Sandy make sense as they aren't close to that power level, but why Tang? I think, perhaps, something happened that caused the great Monk to do something to himself, and to possibly the others around as well, to cause them all to not have their memories erased, but rather surpressed. Like a spell to keep certain memories locked away, out of reach, but why? Perhaps it was to help keep them safe undercover from something, or someone. Perhaps it was to help protect them from getting their memories messed with by another force. As despite being in the scroll of memory, we see that the spirits of who they supposedly were remained without a single mark of being affected from the scroll. And what also appeared when their old figures did? The gold aura of the monk, the entire plain and atmosphere turned to a bright gold as the figures helped Wukong and the gang remember who they are, even if they didn't remember their past memories. But what I still wonder is why Tang, if he did, put that supposed spell of protection up on them, and himself included. What could've caused him, this now powerful being, to resort to this tatic? It could be for the same reason Wukong was able to be controlled by the lady bone demon for a short while despite being a Buddha himself. That's just my thoughts and guesses on it though ^^
Random theory: Tang was a celibate,but couldn't Mr.Tang be descended from other family members that carries the Tang name? Also,I think Sandy is the most plausible one in this theory with the flashback of him surrounded by corpses. Edit: After doing a bit of name research,this theory can be wrong.Pigsy and Sandy does have their own name in the chinese dubs.Pigsy is Chef Zhu (Not Zhu for Pig,but another word meaning Cinnabar or Vermillion) and Sandy is Sha Da Li (Strong sand).However in Cantonese dub,his name is Sha Heshang.
I don't think this theory is possible but what if they're clones? I don't know and doubt if anyone can somehow managed to collect their DNA via whatever they took can preserve well unless they used magic to keep it fresh. It's far fetched but we got a scientist in season 2 so 🤷♀️
Maybe... hair clones? 😅 Although, in the book, Sun Wukong actually made clones out of his blood (and like some trees), but he made some of other people - so maybe that's what they are lol.
This video actually makes me question, how old (in human years) are the pilgrims, especially Sun Wukong? I mean he is 500+ years old in demon years. According to OSP, when Master Subodhi kicked him out of training, Sun Wukong was 20 years old. Then he was trapped under the mountain for 500 years. So if we assume that 100 demon years=1 human year, then by the time Sun Wukong was released from his imprisonment, he was 25 years old. In LMK when he used the stuff to imprison DBK, another 500 years passed. Which means that in LMK he is technically 30 years old. What do you think?
@@RVSketch Well, makes sence considering he lived for a long long time. As for Macaque, he might be a little bit younger than Wukong. One of the creators sees him being 400+ years old.
@@Dimitsune I think they (Ashe Jacobson) actually said (in their non-canon Pokemon cards) that Macaque is 4000 years old, and Sun Wukong is 5000+ years.
Uhm I am not very good at theories but this kinda supports your theory because if lbd actually had something to do with the scroll then she could’ve actually got azure out of the under world just in case she fails by renewing the world and let azure take the jade emperors power knowing he can’t contain it which would lead to him destroying the universe
Yesterday, I had ended reading a japanese light novel, and then I started reading Journey to the West, I'm so excited that I'm understanding this book, because I'm learning english through reading books and watching animated cartoons, like LMK, I like the Chinese Mythology so much. I like to think the main characters can be the original pilgrims, because, like you said we have seem other characters from the book, like the six-eared-macaque. I wanted to ask to you, did you read the entire book, or you're still reading to make the videos? Like your theories, because make your subscribers have more content to consume instead of just waiting the season 5. Huge hug to you, health and peace, always. ❤️💙💜
Thank you! And I'm still reading - it is quite long 😅 Although I have accumulated a lot of general knowledge about parts I haven't read up to yet. I also do quite a bit of research for my videos. I use this website to find which events are in which chapters: journeytothewestlibrary.weebly.com/novel-summary And then I search through specific chapters/volumes using Control+F (on digital PDFs of JTTW) to find exactly what I'm looking for.
Personally, in my opinion, I don’t think they are the same person but instead reincarnations. I mean the same person theory is interesting but I feel like it’s just too difficult and they’re too many problems with it. Mei is definitely her own person. I think she’s just connected to him because of the fire. Meanwhile, piggy’s, I believe to be reincarnation. Maybe after JTTW they were reincarnated for succeeding? Monkey king is like six times immortals, so I could totally see why he would outlive them. But then again, we seen multiple demons that were in JTTW. I believe they were probably killed at some point, or possibly did die of old age, or. Which is my strongest belief, that after a certain point, they ascended and were reincarnated for a new life, to meet mk.
The problem is that reincarnation is not seen as a good thing in Buddhism. The idea is that you are stuck in a cycle of reincarnation, and the goal of Buddhism is to end the reincarnation cycle, which happens when you achieve enlightenment and become a Buddha.
In journey to the west it was literally said that the word "sha" refers to sand so... yeah? Plus "zhu" means "pig" (I'm not sure if they said that in the original story) and I know you've said that in the video, sorry. So yeah you're right :] I sure hope they're the original pilgrims. That would be fun to watch
10:11 Also, Tang got realy offended when Pigsy miss pronouced Tang Sanzung/Xaunzang name. Personaly, I would only get offend about something like that if 1. I like the person, about who is being talked about, and find it very important how their name is pronouced, or 2. It's my owne f*cking name.
Your vision is really good As for Ao Li, at first I thought of a theory - I thought it was a bad theory, which was that after Ao Li obtained the fire of samadhi, he was unable to control it later and his body was burned by it, And he died because of it💀💔
I'm pretty sure it was only Sun Wukong and Tang Sanzang that actually achieved Nirvana. While they became Buddhas, Sha Wujing just got promoted to Golden Bodied Arhat, and Zhu Bajie became the Janitor of Alters (he gets to eat all the food offered on alters 😅). And Ao Lie was "appoint[ed] one of the dragons belonging to the Eight Classes of Supernatural Beings". I also feel like it's possible that, in Monkie Kid, none of that happened and the journey was a failure. After all, Sun Wukong doesn't seem like he's a buddha in Monkie Kid, and Ao Lie became a golden dragon at the end of JTTW, but we never see him depicted as gold in LMK.
I just did a little digging, and it seems he actually hasn't achieved full liberation, apparently. He's considered to be a Bodhisattva, meaning he has stopped trying to become liberated himself so he can help others achieve enlightenment.
Not really. At least, not in JTTW/Buddhism. You don't have memories of past lives. In Chinese mythology, before you reincarnate, you drink Meng Po Soup that erases your memories. There can be a scenario where someone avoids drinking the soup, but it's not supposed to happen.
![What is MK? [Monkie Kid season 5 theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ATXyzVTlN70/mqdefault.jpg)
![What is MK? [Monkie Kid season 5 theory]](/img/tr.png)
![Who are the Four Spiritual Primates? [Lego Monkie Kid Season 6 Theory]](/img/1.gif)
There is also the fact that those trapped in the scroll of memory are meant to relive their past deeds, and despite MK and Mei being put in the scroll the same way as the others, by ink dragging them in, only Sandy, Pigsy, and Tang are trapped in the past memories of the pilgrims
Good point! They never did explain why Pigsy, Tang, and Sandy got trapped in the Pilgrims' bodies 👀
@@RVSketch I think that Pigsy, Tang, and Sandy are both simultaneously descendants and reincarnations of the original pilgrims.
If they really are the original pilgrims and not just reincarnations of them I can already picture Tang’s horror once he realizes he broke almost every vow he took as a Buddhist monk.
Though I will say this while it’s traditionally impossible for a reincarnation to have memories of their past lives, in JTTW there were multiple cases of celestials who went through reincarnation that were able to regain the memories of their past life mainly through someone telling them about it, and throughout the series Pigsy, Tang, and Sandy have come into contact with a lot of items and enemies that the pilgrims encountered, plus it’s likely that Sandy only started having memory flashes after he picked up meditation, something we have yet to see Tang or Pigsy do.
So while your theory is the most likely scenario, there’s still a small chance they could be reincarnations.
I definitely think that in season 5, they will explore more deep into everyone’s past/family (like Mei and the dragon clan) so hopefully we will get to see more of the pilgrims and if they really are tang,Sandy and pigsy
SPOILERS: It doesn't really, except for one character ... I watched season 5.
@@NinjaGamerGirl2023 yeah 😔😔
9:53 Sandy is literally all the theorists of the LMK fandom
He is so relatable
@@OthandoSimamane-ss1xp fr fr
So true 😅 I'd like to hear his theories!
i did thought of that too! i really want to hear Sandy's theories now
@@KV_The_Unknown fr
We also know that there is a memory problem going on like the way azure couldn’t remember how he got out of the underworld, and (now I’m not sure of this but I think this is true feel free to search it up) that in an interview with some people working on LMK they specifically say “macaque THINKS wukong killed him” and they didn’t elaborate anymore on that, but they definitely used the word “thinks” for a reason. (Did sun wukong actually kill him? Or was it something else and someone altered the memories of everyone so they THINK that happend???)
Yeah, I also remember someone on the show saying that about Macaque! I just can't remember who/where it was 😅
@@RVSketch same, but that got me really thinking. Like i do think wukong took macaque’s eye, but I don’t think he killed him
I wonder if they are the original pilgrims. It would also make me think Sun Wukong forgot about them as well and thinks they all passed away with him being all alone
True! And Lady Bone Demon, when threatening Sun Wukong and Macaque, doesn't specifically say she'll erase _their_ memories, she says:
"I will rip the memory of you from this world"
"...I will erase the very memory of you"
And both of those statements imply that she'll make it so no one in the world will remember them.
Erease the memories of them, like they never even existent.
That’s such a scary thought.
But wait. Macaque basicaly went through this experience already, almost no body remembers him. I remeber that, in the chines dup of LMK (thanks to someone in the comments) says "But- it's not like people remember me anyway" when MK confuses him with Wukong on the roof.
Personally think Sandy Tangs and Pigsy probably from old age and Monkey King outliving them which would make relatives dead or in the underworld for their past crimes. Meis Great 1000 grandpa I believe is still alive given the fact the dragon family seem to be immortal but leave their physical bodies behind when they get older and become gods who offer guidance
Although tang’s relative I believe could have found a way to be immortal but I doubt he’d stay mortal this day and age and probably has become one with the stars or something
Or,Mr.Tang could be from another member of Tang Sanzhang's family (I just remembered Tripitaka is the king's nephew)
my thoughts are that they are reincartions of the journey to the west pilgrims but not the normal kind in like something happened someone in charge needed them and that's also why MK was made cause whoever it was didn't trust monkey king
also i think MK human form wasn't a mistake or cause of the crack but so he would grow up learning empathy and kindness cause it took monkey king way to long to learn that and they don't have time
I do agree that this video covers a major over-arcing mystery. But there's another fact about the character Tang Sanzang that might explain Mr. Tang.
Mr. Tang may not need to be a DIRECT descendant, like Mei is to Ao Lie. Tang Sanzang has a back story that leaves room for at least some half-relatives. And famous ancestors, direct or otherwise, can have their names passed down over generations. Supposing Tang Sanzang didn't choose to go back after his 99th (correct the number if wrong) reincarnation, he might have the authority to pass down his powers to a blood relative if deemed crucial to the plot.
If that’s true then sha Wujing has been working out💀(joking)
Amazing video! As always!Something I wanna bring up is although the memory thing is definitely going on strong and something is definitely affecting them. Something I wanna bring up is that the only two people who's memories weren't messed with are Sun Wukong and Mk's (no I'm not counting him struggling to remember his birth as he was only able to remember inside the scroll of memories and most people don't remember the moment they were born XD)
We now that Wukong and Mk are the most powerful out of everyone in the series so most likely their level of power keeps them from getting affected, because otherwise the being doing this should be able to just snatch up their memories just like that
But that's just the thing, their memories weren't erased, if they were they wouldn't be able to remember at all. Instead it's like something is surpressing their memories. Keeping them locked away deep inside. But why?
Well, Wukong isn't the only one who is a Buddha, so is the monk Tang Sanzang. Buddhas are as powerful as a being could ever be, so how come Tang was affected when technically stuff like that shouldn't be able to even touch him? Pigsy and Sandy make sense as they aren't close to that power level, but why Tang?
I think, perhaps, something happened that caused the great Monk to do something to himself, and to possibly the others around as well, to cause them all to not have their memories erased, but rather surpressed. Like a spell to keep certain memories locked away, out of reach, but why?
Perhaps it was to help keep them safe undercover from something, or someone. Perhaps it was to help protect them from getting their memories messed with by another force. As despite being in the scroll of memory, we see that the spirits of who they supposedly were remained without a single mark of being affected from the scroll. And what also appeared when their old figures did? The gold aura of the monk, the entire plain and atmosphere turned to a bright gold as the figures helped Wukong and the gang remember who they are, even if they didn't remember their past memories.
But what I still wonder is why Tang, if he did, put that supposed spell of protection up on them, and himself included. What could've caused him, this now powerful being, to resort to this tatic? It could be for the same reason Wukong was able to be controlled by the lady bone demon for a short while despite being a Buddha himself.
That's just my thoughts and guesses on it though ^^
PEOPLE!
NEW POSTER FOR SEASON 5 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
I REPEAT!
NEW POSTER FOR SEASON 5 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
Random theory: Tang was a celibate,but couldn't Mr.Tang be descended from other family members that carries the Tang name?
Also,I think Sandy is the most plausible one in this theory with the flashback of him surrounded by corpses.
Edit: After doing a bit of name research,this theory can be wrong.Pigsy and Sandy does have their own name in the chinese dubs.Pigsy is Chef Zhu (Not Zhu for Pig,but another word meaning Cinnabar or Vermillion) and Sandy is Sha Da Li (Strong sand).However in Cantonese dub,his name is Sha Heshang.
I don't think this theory is possible but what if they're clones? I don't know and doubt if anyone can somehow managed to collect their DNA via whatever they took can preserve well unless they used magic to keep it fresh. It's far fetched but we got a scientist in season 2 so 🤷♀️
Maybe... hair clones? 😅
Although, in the book, Sun Wukong actually made clones out of his blood (and like some trees), but he made some of other people - so maybe that's what they are lol.
This video actually makes me question, how old (in human years) are the pilgrims, especially Sun Wukong?
I mean he is 500+ years old in demon years.
According to OSP, when Master Subodhi kicked him out of training, Sun Wukong was 20 years old.
Then he was trapped under the mountain for 500 years.
So if we assume that 100 demon years=1 human year, then by the time Sun Wukong was released from his imprisonment, he was 25 years old.
In LMK when he used the stuff to imprison DBK, another 500 years passed. Which means that in LMK he is technically 30 years old.
What do you think?
I think is 100 year = 1 human year with immortality
and 1 year = 1 human year without immortality
Well, I think he definitely gives off 40s or 50s vibes at the moment 😅
@@RVSketch Well, makes sence considering he lived for a long long time.
As for Macaque, he might be a little bit younger than Wukong.
One of the creators sees him being 400+ years old.
@@Dimitsune I think they (Ashe Jacobson) actually said (in their non-canon Pokemon cards) that Macaque is 4000 years old, and Sun Wukong is 5000+ years.
@@RVSketch Yeah, that was what i was mentioning. The pokemon cards that they made for the characters.
Uhm I am not very good at theories but this kinda supports your theory because if lbd actually had something to do with the scroll then she could’ve actually got azure out of the under world just in case she fails by renewing the world and let azure take the jade emperors power knowing he can’t contain it which would lead to him destroying the universe
That could work
Bach-up plan. Always good to have one.
Except if it includs destoying the world and universe.
Yesterday, I had ended reading a japanese light novel, and then I started reading Journey to the West, I'm so excited that I'm understanding this book, because I'm learning english through reading books and watching animated cartoons, like LMK, I like the Chinese Mythology so much.
I like to think the main characters can be the original pilgrims, because, like you said we have seem other characters from the book, like the six-eared-macaque.
I wanted to ask to you, did you read the entire book, or you're still reading to make the videos?
Like your theories, because make your subscribers have more content to consume instead of just waiting the season 5.
Huge hug to you, health and peace, always.
❤️💙💜
Thank you! And I'm still reading - it is quite long 😅 Although I have accumulated a lot of general knowledge about parts I haven't read up to yet. I also do quite a bit of research for my videos. I use this website to find which events are in which chapters:
journeytothewestlibrary.weebly.com/novel-summary
And then I search through specific chapters/volumes using Control+F (on digital PDFs of JTTW) to find exactly what I'm looking for.
Personally, in my opinion, I don’t think they are the same person but instead reincarnations. I mean the same person theory is interesting but I feel like it’s just too difficult and they’re too many problems with it. Mei is definitely her own person. I think she’s just connected to him because of the fire. Meanwhile, piggy’s, I believe to be reincarnation. Maybe after JTTW they were reincarnated for succeeding? Monkey king is like six times immortals, so I could totally see why he would outlive them. But then again, we seen multiple demons that were in JTTW. I believe they were probably killed at some point, or possibly did die of old age, or. Which is my strongest belief, that after a certain point, they ascended and were reincarnated for a new life, to meet mk.
The problem is that reincarnation is not seen as a good thing in Buddhism. The idea is that you are stuck in a cycle of reincarnation, and the goal of Buddhism is to end the reincarnation cycle, which happens when you achieve enlightenment and become a Buddha.
I love lego monkie kid and also your videos, it's a shame that in my country there is no lego monkie kid dubbed and I can only watch it in English
Thanks! And yeah, that is a shame - hopefully they end up expanding the dubs.
@@RVSketch who is your favorite lmk character, mine is the macaque
@@joaoccs1 mine is also Macaque lol ;)
@@joaoccs1MINE IS BEST BOI NEZHA (macaque second tho)
Hmm,maybe, but anyway all we need to do it’s wait season 5! Thank you for this theory!
In journey to the west it was literally said that the word "sha" refers to sand so... yeah? Plus "zhu" means "pig" (I'm not sure if they said that in the original story) and I know you've said that in the video, sorry. So yeah you're right :] I sure hope they're the original pilgrims. That would be fun to watch
10:11 Also, Tang got realy offended when Pigsy miss pronouced Tang Sanzung/Xaunzang name.
Personaly, I would only get offend about something like that if
1. I like the person, about who is being talked about, and find it very important how their name is pronouced, or
2. It's my owne f*cking name.
NEW THEORY? YIPPIE!!!
YIPPIE IVE BEEN RUNNING LOW ON THEORY JUICE (moment of silence for matpat😔)
@@orlastarburst pls don't remind me I'm still coping
@@OthandoSimamane-ss1xp hehe sorry buddy
@@orlastarburst 😢
@@Lemon_Verus 😔😢
Your vision is really good
As for Ao Li, at first I thought of a theory - I thought it was a bad theory, which was that after Ao Li obtained the fire of samadhi, he was unable to control it later and his body was burned by it, And he died because of it💀💔
I would cry
No 😭
What if this is real?
@@RVSketch 😭😭
@@user-np8ou1rq3w then I would cry so hard😭
I love your videos 😊
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy them :)
Fun fact and spoilers
At the end of the journey to the west all of pilgrims acheived nirvana putting them above life and death
I'm pretty sure it was only Sun Wukong and Tang Sanzang that actually achieved Nirvana. While they became Buddhas, Sha Wujing just got promoted to Golden Bodied Arhat, and Zhu Bajie became the Janitor of Alters (he gets to eat all the food offered on alters 😅).
And Ao Lie was "appoint[ed] one
of the dragons belonging to the Eight Classes of Supernatural Beings".
I also feel like it's possible that, in Monkie Kid, none of that happened and the journey was a failure. After all, Sun Wukong doesn't seem like he's a buddha in Monkie Kid, and Ao Lie became a golden dragon at the end of JTTW, but we never see him depicted as gold in LMK.
@@RVSketch interrsting theory,i personally beleived that wukong just conceals his real strength but the ao lie think doesnt really have an answer
What about the Dalai Lama? Someone who supposedly keeps reincarnating after achieving enlighting (because reasons)?
I just did a little digging, and it seems he actually hasn't achieved full liberation, apparently. He's considered to be a Bodhisattva, meaning he has stopped trying to become liberated himself so he can help others achieve enlightenment.
@@RVSketch so it's different?
@@MakiPcr yeah, I believe so
Can't memories be inherited by their later reincarnations?? Like an inherited memory of sorts???
Not really. At least, not in JTTW/Buddhism. You don't have memories of past lives.
In Chinese mythology, before you reincarnate, you drink Meng Po Soup that erases your memories.
There can be a scenario where someone avoids drinking the soup, but it's not supposed to happen.
@@RVSketch oooooh. Ok that makes more sense. I'm more of a math than historical person lol
CicAda not cicoda please 🥺