High Speed Rail vs. Air vs. Car: Texas Edition! Dallas to Houston on the Texas Central Railway
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2021
- High Speed Rail in the USA has so far been limited to the Acela corridor in the northeast, which some would argue still doesn't meet the standard of true high speed rail. In a previous video we acknowledged that California High Speed Rail has had a tough start, but in this video we dive into the Texas Central Railway. In earlier videos we looked at why the connection between Dallas and Houston is so promising -- they are at nearly an optimal distance apart. Yes, there's a reason why investors and operators from countries with a wealth of high speed rail experience -- Japan and Spain -- are bullish on a high speed rail connection between Texas' two largest cities.
This video drills down into the details of an example trip between the two cities, following the journeys of three hypothetical travelers on their way from Southern Methodist University (northern Dallas) to the university of Houston (southeastern Houston). Our three travelers go by car, plane, and Texas Central Railway, and we compare their journeys step by step.
Our video includes overviews of:
- Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (DFW)
- Dallas Love Field (DAL)
- George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH)
- William P. Hobby Airport (HOU)
- North Texas Station (future Dallas terminus of the Texas Central)
- Brazos Valley Station (midpoint of the Texas Central, with potential spur to Austin and San Antonio)
- Houston Station (future Houston terminus of the Texas Central)
And, of course, we finish by crowning a winner, evaluating travel time, travel cost, and the travel experience.
References for this video:
My videos:
- Best US City Pairs for HSR: • Top 10 Places to Build...
- International city pair twins for the most promising US city pairs: • U.S. High Speed Rail v...
- California HSR vs. Air: • High Speed Rail vs. Ai...
Texas football photos: Image by Keith Johnston from Pixabay
GSA mileage reimbursement information: gsa.gov/mileage
Airport security: Image by Joshua Woroniecki from Pixabay , Image by Rudy and Peter Skitterians from Pixabay
Airport seating: Image by Markus Winkler from Pixabay , Image by Hands off my tags! Michael Gaida from Pixabay , Image by Júlia Orige from Pixabay , Image by StockSnap from Pixabay
Texas Central documentation: www.texascentral.com/wp-conte...
Houston Chronicle on the Katy Freeway: www.chron.com/neighborhood/ka...
ICE train Video by Johannes R. Meister from Pixabay
Deplaning Video by Olivier Polome-Pengthong from Pixabay
Parking at UH: www.uh.edu/af-university-serv...
All station renderings shown are conceptual only, and not final design: www.texascentral.com/project/ 
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“This channel is about a lot of things. Fun is just not one of them.” 😂
As soon as I Heard that I knewI needed to Subscribe.
Haha at least he’s honest 😄
Best channel ever
Fascinating channel. Examining the civic infrastructure development challenges of the future!
Ha! Apparently a lot of people love this boring stuff! Heaven help us
As someone who has lived in Dallas with family in Houston for 20 years, I can say that a train would absolutely smash a plane on this trip like you said. I've flown to Houston 4 times and driven there 50+ times and no doubt a train would be way faster than both.
also I'm a pilot so I'm literally rooting for the planes here but its still undeniable.
I agree
Texans will have to pay for the train with higher taxes, since they asked the fed to help them; ; but will be good when they put us in fema camps easy way to transport large numbers of people!!
@@beckyjolong6285 I never claimed I was for building the train, just saying it destroys everything in travel time.
a Government built train would run triple the price it should and go years beyond its original plan without making money, its p obvious it should never happen.
It's important to note that as a private company, Texas Central does not come into this with a goal of ending aviation. That's the communist extremists in my party (the Democratic Party). Texas Central just wants to carve out a niche for themselves and be successful and I wish them the best.
Part of the problem with California High Speed Rail is the mentality that any amount of spending is ok because they're trying to somehow replace aviation. Can't be done. It's too slow. And we don't need the government taking options away. Maybe if we were talking about maglev at 300 or 400 mph. Driving takes three hours between Dallas and Houson and aircraft take one hour. The train does not go fast enough to cover the distance that a jet aircraft does in one hour (about 580 miles at maximum speed).
There's no way trains can replace aviation for long distance intercity travel in the USA because they're too slow and can't go where track has not already been laid.
@@neutrino78x Rail will take away from some aviation demand, its just how it is. not that its a bad thing though, overrall though everything you said was correct tho lol
Texan college student here who often has to make the trip from Dallas to Houston.
You are not mistaken, the high-speed rail option would absolutely CRUSH any other method of transport. Even when using the Dallas light rail to help with the trip, I wish every time I go to Houston that I could just hop on a dang train!
For the amount of people that drive around California, let alone fly around, I cannot understand why so many hate the idea of high-speed rail between San Francisco + Sacramento and Los Angeles + San Diego. It's a no brainer! Even having lived in the UK, which has only one true new-build high-speed line, for six months, I know the immense benefits of quality (or even a little below if you compare UK to France or Japan) passenger rail!
@@intergalactic_butterfly Even SF to Seattle would prove viable because of nerds who're fine with teleconferencing from a train if it means they get to be comfortable for a long ride than uncomfortable for a less long flight.
@@ulogy There would absolutely be a benefit of a high-speed line along the whole coast. However if it ever gets built, it won't be for a while
@@intergalactic_butterfly It'll be finished after the third round of the satellite wars.
@@ulogy
"ven SF to Seattle would prove viable"
No it wouldn't. That's 800 miles.
Even if you averaged 200 mph -- which you probably would not, CAHSR for example is going to average about 126 MPH as currently planned (not that it will ever be finished) -- it would still take four hours.
A plane can do it in half the time.
Hence, what's the point of wasting that money?
At least, for public transit.
If Brightline wants to run PRIVATE transit all that way, more power to them. I wouldn't waste public funds trying to go that fast when the private sector would still be going double the speed.
Native Houstonian and UH alum here. Awesome video! Carl needs to take into account the terrible traffic on I-45 between The Woodlands and Downtown HTX which will add 30-45 minutes, plus the cost of idling/moving 5mph for about 20 miles. Aaron needs to expect a delay at Hobby or Love Field because September can be really stormy in both cities. His ridehail would also spend 10-15 minutes navigating the traffic cluster at IH10/IH610 interchange. TCR is the obvious winner here.
Oh, I didn't think about the weather, interesting.
@@CityNerd , you would if you lived in Texas! Football season is 2nd Tornado Season in north Texas and hurricane season down here along the coast.
I grew up near I-45 and I’m still traumatized by the gridlock to this day
Excellent point...I'm from Dallas, worked at both Love Field and DFW and been to both Hobby and intercontinental...The Dallas orange rail, drops you right in front of one terminals...The new Tex Rail drops you off at the opposite side of DFW...
At love field, you may be sitting traffic for HOURS, for departures and/or pick-ups...
Driving to Houston from Dallas, traffic in Houston can be horrendous. At North Houston, you might still have hours to get to Katy or Rosenberg, depending on traffic🚋🚗✈️
nevermind the city of perpetual construction and traffic that is Waco, Texas
One thing to factor into the equasion is weather. An early thunderstorm will play hell with air travel and could make driving difficult, meanwhile our train just cruises along without much difficulty...
Good point. You all can get some crazy weather down there.
Considering the time of year, only a cold front would bring that type of disruption, which only occur about 1-2 times a week
The gulf coast monsoon would certainly be over by that point, so no pop up storms
Unless a tree falls onto the tracks which will make the train unoperable at all. 🤣
@Va Sr Not really, as high speed lines are usually cleared of potential falling trees. A high speed train is pretty aerodynamic and very heavy, so very hard to blow out of its track, much harder than a truck.
The list of wind related railroad incidents worldwide is pretty short, mostly dates way back, concerns mostly narrow gauge and / or double decker trains and effectively does not include any high speed train incidents except for one in China in 2010: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wind-related_railway_accidents
I once got stuck on a narrow gauge train line because of fallen trees in the 1999 winter storm Lothar in Switzerland. A 30 minutes trip finally took me about 3h.
One thing that i feel many people might miss out on when it comes to the pricing of the high speed rail, is that considering the half way stop in the Brazos Valley is pretty close to some college campuses already, I dont think its that far of a reach to assume they might have some sort of student discounts, making the trip between houston and dallas a bit cheaper. (For students)
Additionally, Amtrak has a ticketing agreement with Texas Central for that leg, and Amtrak has several multi-ride/Group Discount ticket packages that could reduce the price as well, if you got your tickets through Amtrak.
Honestly, I doubt it will be THAT cheaper if at all. They don't offer student discounts for planes, do they? I can see PERHAPS offering a discount only on fares originating or terminating at Brazos Valley as that will be in lower demand, but I can't see them offering significant discounts for HOU-DAL
@@TheNewGreenIsBlue Well the only reason I brought up the student discounts is because like I said before, the brazos valley station will be really close to many university campuses, so if the goal of this bullet train is to reduce traffic and become a reliable, economic, and efficient mode of transportation, implementing a student discount for people that attend those universities would be a great incentive! The only thing that I can think of for airplanes that are similar to discounts is stuff like collection travel points or air miles. So I don’t think it’s too far of a reach to think that it’s possible for them to have some form of discount for the bullet train. I do think that your idea is very possible as well! Seeing as how the Brazos station is already “halfway” between the two cities so it shouldn’t be necessary to pay as much as say a full length trip.
@@douglastorres4172 Yeah, it's hard to say, really. I get the feeling that they kind of will want to import the pricing structure of Japanese rail as well. Given that JR Central runs the most profitable line in the world and they're a partner in this... and given Texas' propensity to making public infrastructure a 'for-profit' endeavor.... my guess is that they'll only give discounts if it profitable.
Europe uses the "airline model":
Reward non-cancelable far-in-advance tickets (leisure) and punish last-minute travelers (business)
Japan treats HSR like an extension of public transit... pricing is consistent, no matter when you go... with tiny discounts available for last-minute travel.
I get a feeling, given the corridor and marketing that Texas HSR is targeting business travelers and wanting to be profitable... and feels that they probably don't need to offer heavy discounts in general... however, I'm sure it will depend on ridership and usage patterns.
@@TheNewGreenIsBlue yeah, to be fair, only time will tell what will happen with the rail. For the moment we don’t even know if it’ll be built lol. But lets keep out hopes up and wait for this thing to be built. Like you said, they’ll probably wait and see what type of riders they’re getting the most for at least 6 months to a year first, and then decide on what to do with the pricing after.
Am Texan. In fact, this route is a major force in my life. I know it well. I have traveled it by all means except rail because that doesn't work. The last time I was in Houston, I flew to Houston from Dallas and drove to Dallas. The only things that are atypical are the flight numbers. In normal times, flights between the cities leave pretty much every half hour on the half hour. Those were COVID figures. I have seen this very matchup played on the field *many* times, and I never paid for it (not even the time I saw it at Ford Stadium: there was a guy with an extra ticket because their friend had to bail last minute, and I live in Dallas). I have not seen Houston host SMU since they built the new stadium, but I have seen a game there.
The driving student would have stopped at either the two Buc-ees locations in Ennis and Madisonville or at the rest stops south of Corsicana and north of Huntsville (maybe a stop at Woody's in Centerville if they're well hydrated). Estimate 15 minutes for each stop. I would not want to drive from SMU to UH for a football game and drive back after. Not solo. Definitely not with a paper due on Monday. That's unreasonable. For the record, even 20-year-old me would have said, "are you kidding me? No, just watch it on tv at the campus bar." Maybe with two to three other drivers.
The flyer would fly Southwest. I don't think you understand: *that route* has historically accounted for 40% of Southwest Airline's revenue--at least it did in the pre-COVID times. It's got mindshare. They're going DAL -> HOU.
I believe that by the point the high speed rail line is active, Houston METRO will have BRT service to the station. If you followed that to Wheeler Station, hopped on the purple line, and got off at UH (which has a purple line station right there at the Cage).
Great comment, and another vote for Buc-ees!
I really liked your video! I also agree that TCR will be this fast and beneficial.
I don’t mind Houston’s station placement as much because it’s intended to be served by the light rail system at some point and it’s technically nearer to the center of the Houston Metro since it sprawls so much north and northwest.
Also, everyone knows that Carl would have stopped at Buc-ee’s in Madisonville!
True, Buc-ee's would have cost him 30 min, but he would have been even better prepped for the tailgate
This is the kind of local insider knowledge this channel so desperately needs.
@@xblJoey true THAT!
Beer, Dr. Pepper and Flaming Hot Cheetos!
@Va Sr It's a type of pre-game partying very common at American sporting events, particularly college football. The name comes from the fact that you would put down the tailgate (rear door) of your pickup truck or station wagon and sit there while drinking beer. Some schools take it very seriously, with grilled and smoked foods, cocktails, fancy tents, and satellite televisions in the parking lots and fields where the tailgating takes place.
@Va Sr If you want to see a bit more, here's a video taken at a game I attended where Ole Miss hosted my undergraduate alma mater, the University of Texas. Mississippi has some of the best tailgating in the country: ruclips.net/video/ZMc8divTBvI/видео.html
5:44 Passing through the "scenic" I-20 interchange 😂😂😂 Your jokes are always so subtle, yet so good.
Thank you for the work ya put into this video! I’ve been playing gigs in Texas for years- usually driving from Austin to Dallas or Houston or vice versa. It’s amazing the wear and tear on my vehicle, time and psyche those trips have taken on me. You taking into account the car losing value as you drive it is a clever factor I hadn’t really considered. This rail system cannot be built fast enough. Great video.
This was a very interesting video. I normally don’t watch these types of videos but the YT algorithm showed it in my feed. I also live in the greater Houston area so it’s relevant. Taking the train is definitely the way to go. As you’ve shown, there’s so much you can get done.
I loved the scenario that you created using these college students. It was quite a creative way and entertaining to demonstrate the different travel methods!
Carl is driving an F-150, not a Nissan Sentra. And he has to stop at Buc-ee’s. It’s required. And I don’t know what your assumptions were on speed, but Carl drove at an average speed above 75 miles per hour. I live in Dallas and travel to Houston for business. I currently fly. Can’t wait for the train.
Yeah, I should've checked the car sales statistics for Texas, huh? F-150 dominates, You guys, I don't even know what Buc-ee's is, but now I'm obsessed.
@@CityNerd Buc-ee's is a Kwik-E-Mart the size of a city block where you gas up your Canyonero.
Yeah a male college student driving alone on the interstate on his way to a party isn't going to be driving the speed limit. :-)
@@jimzecca3961 yeah. He’d probably be going 90.
So we're from Houston and my wife's family is from Dallas so, at least before COVID, it is a frequent trip back and forth for us and I can't wait for the new rail to open in a few years. And yes, it is as big a slam dunk as you see.. possibly bigger. A few notes though... on the rail... I would just stay all rail and use DART to the Texas Rail and on the other end take Houston Metro... there is decent bus service now and the light rail is planned to connect to the Texas Highspeed station by the time it opens. So will save another $25 (only $2-$3 for local rail at each end). On the airport.. you underestimate the time and cost a lot... security lines at both Hobby and Love are horrible.. need to add at least 30 min at each end so an extra hour to that air trip. On busy travel days it is actually faster to drive. And cost wise, there are standard rates for cab / uber fares mandated by the cities on both ends... is $30 minimum from the airport on one end and $35 on the other so basically double that cost of what you have to and from the airports for the air travel guy. And for the driving.. actual cost and time are both understated.. would add about $30 and 30 min .. and really there would be at least a pit stop at Buccee's on the way through so add another $10 because no one ever walks out of there without buying something. Also you might have looked at the Vonlane bus service which is a premium bus service running from Love Field in Dallas to Downtown Houston... for about the price of the train ticket they actually run faster than driving yourself because they can use the express lanes and saves about 20-30 min even on Saturday without traffic... and you can work on school since you're not driving. It may go away when the train opens up, but is a valid option now which we use frequently. BUT, all in all I like the idea of the race... great comparison and good line up on the results... Train will definitely be the way to go when it opens up. When I have traveled in Europe I have found it to be the way to go most of the time as is so much easier and more convenient and a little cheaper. Can't wait until we get it here in Texas!
Love this comment. Wasn't aware of the premium bus service, and not surprised it exists. I'm not sure why Uber quoted me such low prices on fares (you aren't the first person who mentioned it). I really wanted to err on the side of not biasing this toward the rail option, but yes, I think it's probably even more superior than the result I show in the video. Thanks again!
The car cost is going to vary wildly depending on the car. Most college students are not driving something even close to national averages for depreciation. 56 cents a mile is leased new SUV money.
If Carl is driving less than 90mph he's not really a Texan.
He's from out of state
@@rudmad00 good point
If you are merging at anything less than 80 mph, you are a road hazard.
I hope to see more of Carl, Aaron, and Tracy in later videos.
So we saw how they got there, what about heading back? If the game was an earlier start, Tracy probably would have finished the 6 hour assignment on Saturday. If she was a good student of course.
I actually thought about the return trip. I think the Texas Central is assuming operation until 11pm right now, so there's probably a late train. The flight schedule is actually kind of bad. I don't know if I want Carl driving for 4 hours after a long day of tailgating.
I think tailgating on train is what students would be interested in😀
@@CityNerd so Tracy doesn’t have to spend the money on a hotel to stay the night even if she get hammered sounds like a clear win for the train.
The idea of any of them working on this trip seems pretty laughable but I get that it's an example. And I think it's not unreasonable to think the three would travel together in the car and divide the cost/driving. Depending on how late the game is it might be reasonable to get a room for the night which of course is an added expense.
As someone who doesn't really tailgate, if you don't have a car/aren't meeting someone who does, how do you tailgate? How are you bringing food and drinks if you are flying/taking the train? Do you just wander around the parking lot and hope someone feeds you and gives you beers?
Pretty much, pretty often. Students are what make tailgating really come alive, so people are happy to just have them around. Specifically, the alumns with the cars and the equipment love to see current students, and will be happy to give them a drink or a dog in exchange for chatting about what things are like on campus these days. This goes double or triple for the students and alums of the _visiting_ team, as in our example.
Alternatively, we could postulate that one of their parents is an alumn, who they are planning on meeting up with, or something of that sort.
I live in Dallas and travel to Houston for work 20x/year. Your time estimates are good. I used to fly a lot at first, but quickly realized driving was more convenient and the time savings of flying was less than 15 minutes door to door. Definitely not worth flying for me. I am excited by the train's potential to save time and allow me to work while moving. My only concern is that I will lose some of the train's advantages when I factor in getting to the station in Dallas, renting a car in Houston, and driving to my final destination in NW Houston. I'm eager to find out if the final door to door time works out. I think it will.
The train opens up a possibility for a venturing Car Share program that works in both cities. Rather than an UBER, you just grab a car in the neighbourhood and drive it around. Think like CarGo... I don't know if these cities have something like this setup, but it seems like a natural extension of the train ride to me and you'd still have access to a fleet of cars at either end. Think of it like instead of having a 2nd car type of thing.
That must be cool to live in Houston or Dallas and travel to the other city for work...I would have to imagine, a bullet train between the two would be way more convenient for work or leisure...👍🏾
As a former college student who has driven between Houston and Dallas several times, I've never made it without stopping for food +1-2 bathroom breaks. So I'd say this analysis is very generous to the car route. :')
As a native Texan I have spent years driving back and forth from Austin to Dallas imagining what it would be like if there was reliable train service. Totally does seem like a slam dunk.
Now what you do once you’re stranded in a Texas city with no car is another question but still
Great video, especially using college students since they and younger generations may be more inclined to use rail when it's available. I think it's good to show the additional benefits to high-speed rail (i.e., extra time to do other things), however, it's one MAJOR assumption that any college student will be writing a paper on a game day, especially bringing their laptop to an away game with no place to store it during the game (unless they leave it in Carl's car).
Haha, I thought about all those things. Who works on a paper on Saturday? But let's assume they have a secure locker system at the library! I'm sure there's a solution there somewhere.
When I visited Japan I took a pit stop in Kyoto to just walk around for a a couple hours and was able to store my luggage in a paid locker at the station, it was very convenient.
I know college kids who write papers on their phones, that is an insane but valid option
@@gdrriley420 right maybe they have like that Samsung galaxy fold that folds out to a small tablet size.
@@Newspeak. I’ve watched kids do it normal sized iPhone6-8/SE
Can't wait for the bullet train. I've enjoyed riding the Shinkansen many times in Japan.
I did the Dallas -> North Houston drive and it took me 3½ hours. Stopped at Buc-ee's for gas so all in all it was like 3:45.
Yeah, it'll vary...I can only go with what Google gives me! Didn't show it in the video, but Google quotes "3:20-4:20" for the trip (departing at 10am on a Saturday), which is where I got 3:50. YMMV -- better hope there isn't a Texas A&M home game that day.
Awesome video 👍🏾 I'm from Dallas, Texas and made Air and car trips very often, years ago, when I was in college...
The key has to be the high-speed rail as the best. That Dallas-Houston flight is way too short for a plane.
In this scenario, you could walk from SMU, (University Park/Highland Park) neighborhood...is like 20 mins. Walk...don't leave SMU neighborhood, and go to the SMU/mockingbird station...just go to Center point station.
The rail is so convenient.. the Green Line in Dallas can get you from DFW to the Texas x OU game in about dirty minutes; maybe less. You would, as a college student, have to drive a car, pay for gas and the green line in Dallas, drops you right in front of the Cotton bowl...no need to pay for parking
Great vid, I just subbed. Keep us posted on the Houston-Dallas bullet train progress.
BTW...I was living in Rio de Janeiro, Brasil. One time, I flew from Rio to São Paulo. I was there for a month. I rode the bus back from SP to Rio and it was a longer trip, but less hassle at the airport.
Thanks for including the many variables as you travel...things, unexpected can add to you travel time and duration...at the airport, the luggage weight can significantly affect your cost. In a car, you may be making multiple food and gas stops...
A train is slower than a plane, so you may be many hours without a smoke break...just my impartial take👍🏾
WRT to costs I think you are right about car drivers. Most people consider ownership costs like insurance and depreciation to be sunk costs, therefore they only consider the marginal cost of fuel (and maybe maintenance) as the cost of a journey. And this is probably a fair assumption, because you can only avoid the fixed costs by not owning a car.
I’m an SMU student and it makes me so happy that you chose my school to be a part of your video! I’ve been binging your vids and was pleasantly surprised when you said SMU! Now I can apply this scenario to my real life when SMU plays Houston next season!
Wow I am really impressed your videos and so glad that I found this channel
To save money, a one way ride on the DART costs $2.50 and from SMU Station to Cedars Station takes the same amount of time as traveling by car. There is also a Love Field Station on the Dart that Aaron could take. However, to get there from SMU he would have to go south into downtown, switch to the Green Line ( a 20 minute wait) then travel north to love field. It would take 25 minutes to go from SMU station to downtown, 20 minutes to wait on the next Green Line train and 45 minutes to go up to Love Field Station. A student pass on the DART for a one way trip is $1.25
A Dallas to Houston ride generally takes 3.5 hours, add to minutes north to get to SMU, add 10 minutes south to UH so 4 hours for the drive.
You wouldn’t necessarily have to switch. The Orange Line also runs through both Love Field and Mockingbird Station and it’s only 25 mins + 10ish min shuttle ride from the station to terminal.
I know it’s a couple years old now but such a great example of why this needs to get done. Thanks! 🙌
As someone who lives in TX, specifically Dallas, it would be AMAZING to have a high speed rail go from the OK border to Houston. There is already a major interstate system running that length, now if only we could place a high speed rail to next to it, allowing for stops in Denison, DFW airport, Waco, then a branching station that splits the route into a route that goes to College Station & Houston, and another that branches to Austin & San Antonio. In the future we could begin a line that goes from DFW Airport out west towards El Paso, stopping at the major cities like Abilene & Odesa. This makes it such that someone living in Houston could literally work in the Permian Basin all week, and be home on the weekend without a 12 hour drive. Even if its a 12 hour train ride, its still more comfortable, less dangerous, less pollution, more economical/efficient than driving.
"This channel is not about fun" is an epic quote. I love it.
Air travel is a very uncomfortable means of travel with the only mercy being that an hour flight is tolerable but not more time than an hour. High speed trains are much more comfortable with more space and the opportunity to get up and walk around.
Yeah, I didn't even go there for this. I find working on a laptop in coach on a flight pretty miserable...but I've done it (deadlines require desperate measures), and again, I didn't want to stack the deck in my walkthrough.
@@CityNerd taking a flight these days one feels like cattle crammed into a plane with almost no room to move and no real opportunity to get up and walk around. The only mercy on a flight is the relatively short duration 1-2 hours for most flights any time longer than two hours is unbearable. By contrast trains provide more room for a lap top computer and the opportunity to get up and walk around with less delays. A plane full of passengers can wait on the tarmac 10-15 minutes before getting clear for take offs given air traffic conditions.
Your video is great- I just subscribed. I make this commute up to 30 times a year. As a person who travels between the two cities and lives 5 miles from NW Mall, I am excited about rail and the fact that we are using a proven winner, the Japanese bullet train. Typically drive from customer-to-customer site as part of my job when I get to North Texas, so I am all about leaving the drive from Houston to Dallas to someone else. So sometimes I use Vonlane (Luxury Bus) but it is hassle getting an Uber from my NW Houston home. Another thing Carl would probably need to do is use the restroom. That's why we have Buc-ees in Madisonville so you would need to add 20-30 mins:) Their parking lot is usually packed. This new train will also make a Bryan / College Station an excellent place to live for people who do business in both places like me:)
Love the real world examples I'm getting from viewers -- and now I'm craving Buc-ees and I don't even know what it is.
@@CityNerd Buc-ees is simply where you have to stop. You will know you have to stop before you even get near one.
"The scenic I-20 interchange" hahaha
LMAO. This was great! Love how you covered so many points or details that most folks do not take the time to consider or ponder.
I live in Japan and frequently travel the 250 miles between Tokyo and Osaka. In this context, the automobile is not the first option. It takes too much time and the highways in Japan are tolled and expensive.
Then there is the comparison between airplanes and HSR, which I also use most of the time. While airplanes are subject to delays and cancellations due to bad weather and other reasons, this is almost never the case with HSR.
In addition, HSR is easy to use, cancellation fees are extremely low, and the seats are spacious and comfortable. For this reason, most people travel by HSR.
As a Houstonian, this is on point. My sister lives in Frisco (North Dallas Suburb) so this is a rather accurate representation. As an accountant, I"M SO GLAD YOU INCLUDED WEAR AND TEAR ON A CAR. As a former UH Cougar, GO COOGS! And yes, the train will absolutely be the best option for travel between the two cities. If you ever want to talk more about Houston and it's future plans, please feel free to reach out. I am biased, but I'll leave the analysis up to you. Cheers!
Oh one more thing, blame TXDOT for the Katy Freeway. I don't think anyone in Houston actually wanted 4 additional toll lanes with that expansion.
Also, I've done Megabus, Vonn Lane, and Flixter. These are regional bus services that can be $20 to $100 each way. Def one more option to possibly add in a future revision. This mainly works out because we have family who can pick people up from the stations, but we also uber if we need to.
I've never even been in the usa and i really enjoyed this video! great work!
Great to hear! I like to do international topics as well as US-specific ones. Stay tuned!
A year later a University of Houston student, we'll call him Booker, goes to the game, held at SMU's Ford Stadium. Months before he goes online and buys a Megabus ticket for $1. He takes Houston Metrorail right from the campus to the Megabus stop. He uses the entire bus ride for study time, aided by Megabus' free Wifi. He travels from the Megabus stop on Dallas DART to the Mockingbird station, right across from the SMU campus. Cougars win 95-21.
This example is all of my med school!
Great video! Love the cost analysis of each transport option. I love taking trains/public transport way more than driving.
I thing people often forget to mention: not driving also saves you the hassle of stopping for gas, paying insurance, traffic, getting a tune-up, changing oil, fixing tires, annual registration, having to constantly pay attention and be awake to drive, and so on and so on and so on. All these things take a lot time, energy, and thought! For this alone, I take trains 🚊 😊
I'm with you! Driving to get to distant places is such a weirdly ingrained status quo.
Plus there's the joy of getting pulled over, parking fines, break-ins if you perhaps leave anything of any value in your car, misplacing keys, fender-benders and mystery scratches that suddenly appear in parking lots and all the other things that cause periods of automotive emotional turmoil. The worst thing that can usually happen when using a train is missing one and then having to go through all l the trouble of walking a few meters to find a café to hang around in until the next departure. And l guess some college students might like to drink a little so yeah there's that.
Being from Texas, I can tell you that NO ONE thinks of anything other than gas when they think of the price of driving. I loved the comment at the end that Carl probably *thinks* he spent less. Also good luck finding parking near a college campus in Texas on gameday. Probably be spending way more than $20 to park in someone's yard a mile away
As a person who has regularly, over the years, done a 8-12 hour drive across multiple states, multiple times a year, I can attest that the act of driving is itself exhausting. Even if you're a passenger, it's an ordeal. (One unappreciated aspect of long car trips is needing to stop just to stretch one's legs.)
If I could make that trip via train, I absolutely would. Let the train do all the work, while I hang out in a compartment within walking distance of a bathroom at all times.
EDIT: So a quick Google search tells me a trip of that kind (from [Redacted] to [Redacted]) would take about 15 hrs. But if, as seems the case, I can do it overnight, it seems worth it. I'd potentially spend most of that ride asleep (or at least attempting to sleep), and arrive in the morning. Which would be a welcome change from actively driving forever, only to collapse into bed at my destination.
I can tell you that business travelers are waiting for this. It is ideal.
Amazing great perspective. Looks like the High Speed Rail will be very beneficial
They’ve been talking about this for 10 years and, similar to inner city light rail, I don’t think it will ever happen bc many Texans see mass transit as an unnecessary expensive liberal proposition, but it’s actually very necessary as our population soars.. we can only widen freeways so much.
I'm optimistic. Public sentiment changes over time, for a lot of reasons. Even in Texas, I imagine!
@@CityNerd You would be surprised on how fast public sentiment can change. I used to live in Salt Lake City. In the late nineties, the local transit operator, UTA, finally broke ground on their first light rail line. At the beginning so many people said that it would nto work, no one would ever use it, it would destroy businesses, etc. Well a few businesses did suffer as result of construction (they had to do a lot of heavy construction in the downtown area) but the prediction that the system would be a failure? Blown out of the water. The trains were packed, so much so that UTA bought extra cars second hand from Sacramento to keep up with demand. Cities went from "we don't want this" to begging for a TRAX line.
How is Carl trip cost $132? You can make it from Dallas to Houston with less than 1 full tank which doesn’t equal the amount listed
That includes the cost per mile rate that is used for reimbursement purposes as it takes into account wear and tear and maintenance.
Maintenance doesn't begin to account for it. If you spend that much on maintenance, you're running your car without oil.
It's an average total car cost for Americans, so it includes fixed costs like insurance, registration, and the big one, depreciation. Depending on what kind of car Carl has, he could pay 1/4th of the assumed amount or he could pay 4x. If he has a 1996 Honda Civic, which effectively has zero depreciation, is cheap to insure, is reliable with cheap parts, and gets excellent gas mileage, he might make his journey for $0.10/mi rather than $0.56. However, if he drives a new lifted F-350 King Ranch on 38" M/Ts, he's sitting on a RAPIDLY depreciating asset, paying a lot of interest on it, and he'll spend separate fortunes for gas, tires, and insurance. Now ask yourself, which is the more likely ride for a starving college student?
Also, because a lot of these are fixed costs of car ownership rather than marginal cost of miles driven, Aaron and Tracy are probably also paying insurance and registration and depreciation for the cars they left home in Dallas. There aren't many Texans who don't own a car at all.
@@JETZcorp Hey! Some of us forget to check the oil in our cars. Don't judge us.
@@MichaelJW72 the math is still off by almost double
I've driven and flown between Houston and Dallas many times. I can't wait for the high speed rail. I've still got friends in Dallas. Being able to take a day trip to Dallas would be fantastic. Your estimates seem accurate to my totally non-scientific self.
wouldn't a day trip to dallas be a lot quicker on a jet aircraft though. If I only had a day to go somewhere (as is often the case when trying to do something on a weekend as I have weekends off), I would fly.
@@neutrino78x did you watch the video?
This was a particularly interesting race (vs the CA one) because I had been pretty pessimistic about the non-downtown location for the houston station, but this race helped me realize that what texas HSR is competing with are much more remote non-downtown locations (airports). I totally get the cost-benefit analysis of the location now.
Chris, METRO is moving forward with a proposed BRT elevated above (and separated from) I-10 which will connect the HSR Houston station with the system (busses and all 3 rail lines) downtown.
The trip will be quick, as the (likely) only 3 stops will be the NW Transit Center, Shepherd and Studemont, AND -- being separated from I-10 (Katy Fwy) -- will not be part of that traffic congestion.
@@roygreen9890 thanks for that pointer! i love it when youtube comments are helpful.
One last thing to point out is that if they're driving down together, they split the car cost by 3 people; but if they all fly or take the train together, they each have to buy their own ticket. So road trips can save money still. (Albeit less time to work on that paper 😂)
This is also true in many places in Europe, driving car full of people is normally cheaper than any other transport, the thing making the difference for one person travelling are the other costs of owning/maintaining a car.
The main issue with highways are that they carry something like 80% single occupancy vehicles. (That's probably excluding frieght usage) as a carpool they are generally fine, especially a group of friends making a road trip together and splitting costs.
A single person just trying to make a trip as conveniently as possible would rather take a train or plane and get picked up at the final station by a friend. (Or take transit/walk depending on the nature of the trip)
Dude, you remind me of an old friend. I really enjoyed this. DISREGARD: Sydney below. You are fun....
Thanks for your detailed and informative presentation showing the tremendous benefits of HSR (High Speed Rail).
As a Canadian having lived for most of my life in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor, I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective in that the proposed HFR project would provide a similar level of intercity rail service to that of Sweden, where their regular intercity trains travel conveniently, effectively, frequently and quickly at up to 180 kph (or 111 mph) and their so-called HSR (High Speed Rail) trains operate at top speeds of up to 200 kph (or 125 mph).
HFR trains running at almost identical speeds of up to 200 kph (or 125 mph), considered HrSR (Higher Speed Rail) in North America, at hourly scheduled departures throughout the day, would serve more towns and cities than HSR, offer a level of sustainable, intercity mobility never before experienced in Canada, and, most importantly, would substantially reduce carbon emissions by a ratio of 30 to one, using electrically-powered trains, in comparison with a single occupant in an automobile.
Therefore, 30 people would travel faster and in more comfort with HFR while creating the same carbon footprint as a lone person in a car!
In numerous countries throughout the world, such as Germany and Sweden, fast freight, local, regular intercity, regional and HSR trains share a significant portion of their rail lines so as to ensure maximum efficiency and fair treatment for all.
Since Via Rail only owns about 2 or 3 percent of the total rail network in Canada, it is therefore absolutely paramount that a shift to dedicated track ownership take place in order to prioritize right-of-way for Via Rail's passenger trains so as to maximize its effectiveness, potential and usefulness to Canadians.
Without HFR, Via Rail will be forced to continue to operate on congested, privately-owned freight lines, and will ultimately disappear entirely since it will no longer be able to provide an acceptable level of service to Canadians; it is very close to reaching this point without adequate foresight and funding by our federal government.
Unfortunately and inexplicably, our present government is endlessly delaying its approval of this HFR project since at least six years now, and counting, by continuing to rather fund recurring engineering analyses and studies, which have been, for the most part, already completed, while refusing to commit to an actual timeline for the beginning of construction.
I strongly suspect that HFR is being delayed due to effective lobbying by competing interests that are doing their utmost so as to ensure that HFR never gets built and Canadians never get to experience modernized passenger rail as evidenced in other advanced countries throughout the world such as France, Germany, and Spain, just to name a few!
There is a prevailing and completely incorrect view that providing modernized passenger rail will somehow negatively affect the bottom line for the status quo and that this must not be allowed to happen.
In actuality, auto sales in the EU, for instance, are very similar in scope on a yearly basis to that of Canada, the U.S., and Mexico combined, even though Europeans embrace passenger rail far more than Canadians do.
The fact is that Europeans own a considerable amount of cars as we do In North America, but choose to drive far less and take the train for medium- to longer-length journeys, the result of which Europeans have a much-lower carbon footprint per capita than we do!
On the subject of airline travel, short- to medium-length flights are in the process of being eliminated or severely reduced in countries such as France and subsequently being replaced by modernized passenger rail, an effective measure that we should also be doing here in Canada to help mitigate the effects of climate change.
We, in Canada, no longer have a national intercity bus service following Greyhound's departure a few short years ago while our passenger rail service, Via Rail, only operates an almost irrelevant service nationally with the possible exception of the Quebec City-Windsor corridor, although it is still dreadfully slow, insufficient, skeletal, and unreliable at best for most travellers!
It shouldn't come as a surprise then to learn that the vast majority of travellers either drive and/or fly in Canada as there aren't any other options!
That's one of the main reasons why highway 401 is so congested to the point where traffic jams of 80 kms (50 miles) or more in length frequently occur, thereby costing our economy billions of dollars per year in lost productivity!
In conclusion, HSR, or the proposed, much-less-costly HFR project, will, in all probability, never be approved in Canada, based on the past six years or more of inaction by our federal government, because of an obvious lack of leadership by our elected officials and short-term political thinking, to the detriment of sorely-needed, progressive, and decisive action.
Your HFR seems cool. We have something similar to that in Sydney, we call them intercity trains. Ours only go up to 115kph (for now) but much more comfortable and cheaper than driving!
for this trip the train wins but consider a weekend when you need to use transportation to get around to different places in Houston. It really depends on what your needs are. The train should be the most reliable time wise.
Both cities are car centric so major traffic congestions will always be an issue
Well Houston should also have public urban transportation.
Great/tragic point! I think Uber takes care of this nowadays but definitely it's this worry I hear most when justifying longer distance car travel. All the more reason to push for better in-city transport
Nothing stopping you from renting a car when you get to your destination by train.
@@ujai5271 As a person who regularly has to get a rental car in Atlanta after a plane flight to exurbs, car rentals are terrible. They take so long to actually get (sometimes up to more than an hour), most likely low-quality, expensive in most cases, and just generally inefficient. I only use rental cars because I HAVE to. If I could use a train/bus to get around Atlanta, I would, but they are sparse and ignored.
I think the only thing this is missing is the constant road construction that added 2-3 hours to Carl’s trip.
Why would the I-45 always have a ton of construction?
Interesting video. Everyone I know drives so we'll have a car when we get to Dallas. And the drive goes fairly quickly and is usually pretty easy.
We call IAH "Intercontinental" or "Bush". 🙂
Yeah, it's not "international" but "Intercontinental". The reason for this is that you can take the bus to another country.
@@Bacopa68 also, in 2019 (pre-pandemic), thanks to the UNITED hub and the Star Alliance, IAH was the only airport in the Americas (out of only 5 worldwide) with non-stop service to all other (non-Antarctic) continents.
Red , "IAH" stands for "I AM HOME!" 😉👍
Thanks!
You bet!
Houstonian here - anyone that builds a car rental place near the high speed rail station in Houston is going to strike it rich. That location, even if somehow connected to light rail (doesn't go to that part of town now if I am recalling correctly) would be quite expensive to get to Houston by Uber/Lyft and once you're in town you pretty much have to drive from place to place. You can use Uber/Lyft of course but will be expensive to spend all weekend taking these since they calculate fare based on distance and places are still far apart even if close by taking the freeway (assuming no traffic). This lack of public transportation and ease of getting around is one of the biggest draws on high speed rail IMO - still rooting for it to get here ASAP.
Caesar, the Silver Line BRT serves Uptown/Galleria/Post Oak to/from the Northwest Transit Center. The coming Katy Freeway BRT will soar above I-10 in dedicated lanes between the NWTC and downtown with only two or three stops -- connecting in downtown to all three METRORail lines and the system grid.
You can be assured that, if/when the High Speed Rail station is built, one or both of these BRT routes WILL be extended the short distance (~1 mile) from NWTC to the HSR station.
@@roygreen9890 that would be awesome. If I can take light rail + high speed to Dallas from where I am that would be amazing.
Already started to save up the capital.
As someone who lives in a country with HSR I have my doubts on train tickets being all that cheap, but even if the fare was 80 bucks instead of 50-something it would still be a very wise choice in terms of speed and useful time. Also I find it difficult to estimate the cost of car trips because you really have to ask yourself whether you'd still have a car for other trips if you didn't take this one by car or whether you're operating under the assumption that other modes of transport could replace your car altogether, and therfore how much of an impact your static ownership costs have on one trip (which is also the issue with justifying non-car trips to car owners). Also I find it absolutely mind-boggling to put an important train station six miles away from downtown where if you're not gonna catch another mode of transport you'll have to walk for another two hours just to get to the actual center of a city. Go anywhere in Europe by train and practically always you'll step out of the train station and already be in the middle of the city. Putting your train station way outside of downtown feels like breaking your leg to run a marathon.
You also live where taxes are probably very different.
Also it is not rare to put train stations in the outer circle of a city, look at Paris, all its major train stations were at the time on the outside the city just grew and bobbled them.
Cool concept on your channel. Tons of freeway construction all around the city that Google is often not privy to. Looking forward to the train! Also, I'll be at the game on 30 Oct 2021. GO COOGS!!!
Nice, was hoping to hear from a Coog supporter!
I just like the garage shown was one I did! :)
I have lived in Dallas most of my life (50 yrs) and have family in Houston... the train will beat every time. TRAFFIC in Houston is BAD and not much better in Dallas. It would take Carl about 30 mins, just to get out of Dallas and he would slow down considerably when he get's to Conroe and starts to hit the traffic there. Tracy should take a Dart train to Cedars ( the Mockingbird Station in literally across the street from SMU) and catch the train to Houston.
I just wish they would consider putting in a high speed rail from Dallas To San Antonio with stops in Temple and Austin.
If/when they connect the TCR station to the light rail you could take the light rail straight to the UH campus (which currently has 2 light rail stops) making the trip significantly cheaper.
Also, they generally jack up parking prices during sporting events.
Public transportation usually always a better choice.
BRT is starting service from northwest transit center to downtown Houston in anticipation of the high sped rail.
Nice
Flying 2500 miles today, I think me and a coworker are opting for the train when we get there, lets discover the quality of Atlanta public transit.
Ok Disclosure..., I'm an engineer that often works on large civil projects and state DOT projects. My wife is in upper management for one of the major airlines that flies between Dallas and Houston. Thanks for making the video. I strongly support high speed rail and would love for Texas Central to be built as I travel between Dallas and Houston about twice a month. Having said that, here are some issues of discrepancy I have found with your video and you asked for any Texans to point out where you got things a little wrong or went off the tracks.
The main issue is the "cost" to drive to UH from SMU. You've concluded it will cost $138 (14:48) and with parking (14:53) it will be even higher, though free parking is nearby and used by a lot of people on game day and where a lot of tailgating happens. However, you point out that this trip is for personal/entertainment (2:15), therefore using government GSA reimbursement rates (6:11) would not be appropriate since they are not being reimbursed for this trip. The GSA rate is for reimbursement because you're driving your personal vehicle for business. I drive a large pickup truck or a minivan on my bi-monthly trip between the two city pairs. On the date you published this video, gas prices in Texas average $2.55/gallon. Currently gas is $2.97/gallon. Using the higher price today, and factoring in the cost of maintenance and depreciation pro-rated, the actual "cost" to me is $59 for this 247 mile trip. For Carl, driving an efficient Nissan Sentra, it is likely to be lower. So to conclude the "cost" portion, Carl's cost to drive a significantly lower than your stated assumptions because you incorrectly used GSA reimbursement rates for a person "non-reimbursalbe" trip. Therefore, his actual cost should be calculated, gas, maintenance and depreciation and that stop at Whataburger you mentioned :-)
Regarding airfare, according to Cirium (A data analytics company that evaluates all airlines in the US and most other countries) that average airfare between Dallas and Houston using either set of airports for 2021 so far as been $117 one way since you're video does not include return trip info. The $50 you point to in your video (8:15) was for a month later than the date you published the video. While prices go up and down and you did find $50 airfares, that is not the average. This includes flights with American, United, Southwest and Spirit, which are airlines that fly non-stop between Dallas and Houston. The average price people actually paid for flights on game day, (the day you published your video) was $91.
Lastly, I am doubtful student will take their laptop in order to do work because that will mean two of them will have to carry it all day long, and laptops are a common item to be stolen from people either by taking a backpack or breaking into cars. So no time savings or productively points.
In Conclusion..... I still agree the train is a better way to go for this trip,... but disagree with some of your supporting facts or evidence.
To make HSR viable, a few things needs to be solved. 1- the "fist and last mile" problem. While Dallas does have the DART trains (even though they are extremely dirty and smelly because homeless people loiter on them) that runs from SMU to Cedar station, Houston lacks meaningful light rail, or other train service. What rail there is in Houston, does not go anywhere near the likely Houston station. Having to spend more money for ride hailing at each end, plus the time it takes to get picked is a serious problem. What if I need to go a bit further away? Also, most ride hailing service have extremely limited service for patrons using a wheelchair. In Houston, neither Uber or Lyft will pick up a person in a wheelchair from the site of the proposed station. The pick up service area a limited to near downtown and the Texas Medical Center according to Uber. If we solve the first and last mile problem with expanded light rail in both cities, and put transit security on the trains, it will improve people's willingness to use them and thus the HSR also. According to TxDOT, the average time it took to be picked up in Houston was 14 minutes. In Dallas it was 12 minutes. (Pandemic times maybe).
2- frequency. First and last mile solutions needs to be available frequently and need to operate early enough each day and late enough each day.
3- There is no money with TxDOT do create and install some type of light rail service as they are currently trying to spend $9 billion to widen I-45 from downtown to Beltway 8 from 8 lanes to 18 lanes plus a myriad of other transportation related project, all involving roads, bridges and freeways.
Thanks for making this vide, I hope Texas Central does build their train and I will be one of the first passengers. Though I will still need to drive sometimes.
Thanks for the detailed and well-supported critique. I'm not going to respond exhaustively (partly because I simply agree with a lot of your criticism!), but I would suggest that:
-- the whole exercise in this video relies on the (reasonable) assumption that the UH library (or a nearby campus facility) has some accessible, secure place where you can lock up personal items, and the (maybe less reasonable) assumption that an SMU student is going to spend their travel time studying.
-- don't forget what a male college student pays for driver's insurance...it's probably at the high end. I mean I guess you could say that a lot of the vehicle ownership costs are sunk and you shouldn't prorate them -- I just don't think that's a useful way for people to think about the costs of car ownership.
-- I've been told repeatedly that Buc-ee's (sp?) is the appropriate pit stop for any self-respecting Texan.
Thanks for the great comment!
@@CityNerd HA! Yes, a Buc-ee's stop is pretty much a legal requirement. Exit 251B and 142, nearly everyone who makes the drive knows. As for car insurance cost, he'd be paying that even if he flew or took a train, so you can't really factor that into the cost. The library is not open on weekends when there is a game except to students with ID (Many college are this way including the one I went to, UCLA. But again, I still agree and hope a train is built, but it won't remove as many cars/trucks as one might think. Another TxDOT study and the ridership assessment done by Texas Central says it will remove 10,000 vehicles a day that make the trip between Dallas and Houston. I-45 currently handles 12,525 vehicles per day and is at 81% capacity. Assuming Texas Central really does take 10,000 vpd off the road, that would mean they would have ridership of over 13,300 ppd. That exceeds their current estimate of number of passengers, so there's some funny math going on lol. TxDOT thinks it will only remove 2,500 vpd. According to Cirium, the total number of seats available between Dallas and Houston on all non-stop flights by all airlines for next Saturday is 3,412. So with all these number not adding up right, I think the best argument for Texas Central is induced demand. What are your thoughts? Are you an engineer or work in public planning? And what area of the country are you in?
@@TexMexTraveler Ridership or any kind of travel forecasting is a pretty fraught undertaking. But...it would be weird if they're estimating more cars removed from I-45 than passengers they're forecasting to carry (given vehicle occupancy and likelihood of a lot of their ridership switching from air travel). I guess I'd have to look to see if it was all apples-to-apples as far as the horizon year, etc. My background is planning, but my career path ended up taking me into managing engineering projects, mostly traffic. Work out of the Pacific NW, but have actually done a bit of work down In Texas!
@@CityNerd wonderful, I like networking and getting other perspectives. I'm a PE. here in Texas. I travel all over the country and world. I'm Alejandro. Maybe we can make contact outside of youtube.
College student here, some of us are perfectly capable of typing a paper on our phone in the Google docs app. While having to do anything with copious citations is a nightmare, a creative writing paper, or a persuasive writing paper that isn't too citation heavy should be manageable. Basically the opposite of my problem definition paper (13 in text citations in 800 words, I foolishly thought less typing would be easier). It does mean that anyone using their phone would have a time penalty (slower typing), but could work on what I presume is a freshman english paper while the seat belt sign is on. This would give a benefit to the car, in that they could drag their laptop with them and work on it the next day in the hotel. The downside being that they would have to shell out for a hotel while the train rider might not have to, depending on the train schedule.
Really enjoyed this presentation.
I've lived in Texas for fifty years (I'm 61) and travel in this state has always been a tiresome and sometimes frightening experience. I've loved the idea of high speed rail for a long time now and every time I've ever discussed it with someone, they assert it will never happen because of the cost. God knows we waste taxpayer dollars on all sorts of useless things. Why not spend it on something useful? I've flown between Houston and Dallas (and even Houston and Austin) and it's never a fun trip. The airports are nightmares. I've also driven these distances and there's nothing to recommend it, either. High speed rail would be FUN and I could see myself making use of it (unless I had to drive to downtown Houston to board, which would suck, because I live 30 miles north of Houston and the drive is a horror show.)
Really, the only advantage I can see for Carl is that he can stop off at Buc-ees and buy stupid junk, stuff his face with every variety of candy on the planet, and use probably the cleanest public restroom in the entire state. (Carl may arrive faster than you anticipated though, because everyone drives like a maniac on I-45. Even a Buc-ees stop won't slow him down much.)
Other than that, high speed rail is vastly, VASTLY better than driving or flying. I don't fly anywhere anymore because it's become such a hideous process and I can't drive as much now because my eyesight is bad (and almost nonexistent once it gets dark out.) High speed rail would be a huge boon for someone like me. I wish we had it.
If there were express trains and trains that made stops to pick up and drop off passengers along the route, that would be ideal. Please spare us the drive to Houston to catch a train.
I'm worried that 90 minutes might be a bit ambitious for this project.
HSR from Paris to Lyon (only a slightly longer distance) takes 120.
The work on the Paris-Lyon line started in 1981, so they're working with much older signalling and older trains so the speed would be much lower. Speeds are only 180mph, whereas this will be ~200mph and also has far fewer stops on the way. Which really slows down travel time.
N700 series Shinkansen takes only 81 minutes between Okayama and Kokura (374.8km) with one stop. (Maximum speed on this section is limited to 300kph. )
Therefore, it is possible to travel between Texas and Dallas(≈390km) in 90 minutes.
By the time the rail is built, it should be even a bigger winner. I-45 between Houston and Dallas is congested and one of the deadliest stretches of Interstate in the US -- and will only get worse, because TXDoT won't be able to increase capacity quickly enough (unless travel behavior is changed by the availability of the HSR).
Also, in bad weather, the rail wins again, as it is less affected by inclement weather. A big thunderstorm would clearly slow down Carl's driving and could divert Aaron's flight (or even cause a ground-stoppage at the origin city). Carl has pulled into a Buc-ee's along I-45 to ride out the storm, Aaron is sitting on the tarmac at Love Field awaiting take-off clearance, but Tracy is streaking through the Texas countryside (possibly at a reduced speed, but still moving, nonetheless).
Agreed -- I kinda undersold it.
As a person who use the DART light rail system, it is absolutely “super” effective. The carts are frequent (every 15 minutes, more frequent than the buses that pass by every half and hour), they’re fast, and mesh well with the bus transfer centers (if they show up on time that is). T would totally use the DART light rail to get to the proposed high speed rail corridor.
I am really surprised that you showed Brussels-south in the video as one of the stations
I'd love to see another video in this series but with a focus on environmental impact. That is by far my biggest concern when choosing how to travel, ahead of cost, duration, comfort, convenience, etc.
For example, I live in New England and have family in Southern FL. To visit them, I could take a direct flight and it'd take probably close to three hours in the air, plus another few hours either in the airport or traveling to and from it. Planes are notoriously heavy emitters, though, so I've been looking into other options.
I could take the train, and it'd take more than 30 hours. I could get down to DC on a fast, electric train, but the diesel train from DC to Miami is slow and probably closer to plane tier in terms of emissions too. I'd guess it's a bit better, but probably not a decisive victory from the research I've done.
Then there's the option of driving, which could be decent in terms of CO2 if I'm going in an efficient car with the whole family, but of course it's another car on the road. I struggle with whether or not to assume taking a car reduces plane/train flights; if so and emissions on a given car trip are meaningfully lower per passenger mile than planes/trains then the car wins, but if not the car loses by default. I'd guess the reality is somewhere in the middle, but I have no clue where. At any rate, a car trip to FL would take about as long as the train when you factor in sleeping and breaks. We'd probably have to book a hotel room for a night too.
There's something to be said for taking the train regardless of emissions on that particular trip, since it votes with your wallet for trains to be improved in the future and electric trains dominate cars and planes. I'm just not sure how highly to weigh that, if at all. Like, is it worth a 5x increase in travel time if the diesel train is only a bit better in terms of emissions? Maybe, if the (tiny) signal I'm sending to the market is also beneficial?
I would just love a video delving into these trade-offs and permutations and making a compelling case for which form of transport to prioritize for environmental reasons in which situations. I've had a devil of a time finding good information on this; there are just so many variables, like how full each vehicle is, how efficient each vehicle is, whether the flight is direct or not, etc., that can make a big difference to the end result. Even if your take is "trains almost always win because they do pretty well and you should vote with your wallet" that would still be useful to me.
Sorry this got so long lol. Keep up the good work on your videos and I hope to see you open this important can of worms in the future!
My friends from Dallas who go to college with me in Houston almost exclusively take the bus. Very cheap, and since they don't need to drive, they have all the time to work on their laptops during the trip. The others mostly drive so that they can keep their cars with them on campus. I don't know anyone who flies.
However, this is for people who permanently study, as opposed to people who go for football games. For football games, people always carpool for the atmosphere and to hang out with their friends.
Fr, I can literally get a Megabus ticket which costs four times less and takes almost the same time as driving.
@AM: I’m all for train or bus transportation. I used to have a 35 to 45 minute bus ride to work. That allowed me to get a few minutes of work done AND not worry about traffic. Work subsidized my bus pass because they did not have enough parking for everybody. Time is our most precious commodity, use it wisely.
I've also thought of a high speed rail from Fort Worth to northern New Mexico; both Las Vegas and Santa Fe have short rail links to Albuquerque, but going directly to Albuquerque would seem to involve more mountainous terrain. Checking the current railway maps shows no current direct link. Most of the terrain, at least until you get to the northwest end, is open. Land acquisition costs would be much less than in east Texas, and less opposition from landowners. Lubbock could be a possible halfway stop, and its weather extremes might induce people in that area to use the rail.
I wrote a paper about this in college in the early 90s when I was lived in Dallas. My professor wasn't impressed and gave me a B.
I love Texas whataburger!!! The Texas triangle would be ideal! San Antonio to DFW to Houston.
Compensation rates for driving are probably not indicative of the actual cost, even considering maintenance, insurance, and other costs associated with vehicle usage. For an extreme example, here in Canada the federal government compensation rate for using one's private motor vehicle is about 80 cents/kilometre. This amounts to being paid $80 an hour while on a 100 km/hr highway, which is clearly higher than the actual cost of driving.
I'm sure you're aware of the issue already, since you seemed to take those numbers with a grain of salt yourself, and I realize that it really doesn't change the final conclusion. Thanks as always for the excellent content, I am a fan of both your channel and Not Just Bikes, keep up the good work!
Texan here yeah actually did get pretty much everything spot on the only noticeably off thing was that you called IAH Houston international when it’s actually called intercontinental
Use to have to go to Austin to meet with PUC. I drove and my coworker flew. We timed it and I would beat him to the hotel next to PUC. I got to take unlimited items and drive anywhere I wanted. He had one carry on bag and stuck with no vehicle or a rental. This was before the 9-11 mess at airports.
How about doing the trip by Greyhound bus? Time would probably be similar to driving, perhaps slightly slower, but I’m guessing significantly cheaper than air or train, which might be important for students.
Greyhound is not super effective--Mega Bus is more likely. When my son was in school in the DFW area (Arlington), he would take the MegaBus from Dallas to Houston, and I would pick him up downtown (about an hour away) to bring him back home. Definitely the current option likeliest for a non-driving college student to use.
You take your life in your hands going to Greyhound bus stations in Texas.
you forgot that 45 in houston perpetually has an 18 wheeler flipped over blocking 5 out of 6 lanes
Does it have bad geometry? Why are trucks rolling over?
And/or the obligatory car wreck or car broke down or car on fire, all for the benefit of rubber-neckers.
@Citynerd maybe a guide from Europe business travelers.
I live in the western parts of germany around Düsseldorf and Cologne, everything in a radius of about 100km or 60 Miles, car is King, from 100km to 500km (about 300 Miles) as long as your client is near a major train station train is always the best choice.
In Europe taking a train for business is mostly only used for long directions like Berlin to Paris or Munich to London.
Let’s get it done Texas❗️
As a finance guy, I am going to quibble on the car cost. It really doesn't represent the marginal cost of a single trip, so is not a fair way to cost the trip for comparative purposes.
The GSA cost is for reimbursing people for the use of their car, an accounting cost for financial purposes from the point of view of the people not owning the car. Most of these costs still apply if you leave your car in the driveway and take the train. If you have a car and take the train, you should add the cost of having the car in the driveway to the trip cost, if you want to account the same way.
Because the vast majority of cars are not driven until they are incapable of moving, the per mile cost is completely arbitrary. A high mileage car has a much lower cost per mile than a low mileage car.
A better way to account for the car cost is by time of ownership. Mileage is used because it's easier to count, if less accurate.
As you pointed out if they had shared the car it would have been a lot cheaper. However, I lived in Houston for six years and never saw this happen, sharing the ride!
I am back in the UK now and have just driven with my husband from Penzance to Aberdeen, the distance is about 800 miles. The petrol cost about 200 pounds and the total drive time 11 hours. Out of interest I looked up the train cost and time - four changes and 20 hours! Cost 260 pounds each, one way.
The cheapest and quickest by far is flying
Sharing a ride for an out of town excursion when all three plan to be together at the other end anyway? I agree that carpooling for your regular commute can be inconvenient and isn't common but I think a getaway like this example would see sharing a ride as the most likely choice.
If the train station in Houston isn’t downtown, you’re just going to get dumped in the middle of an Interstate. That really sucks…the beauty of the train is that you can then walk around the city..
@Kitty: you make a good point, but acquiring above ground right of way will be almost impossible. I wonder if they’ve thought about going underground when they get closer to Houston. I know that would be an expensive option.
@@deepsleep7822 Somehow they can get right away for the Interstates but can’t for the trains. They should just take a couple lanes off one of the highways to make the train. No homes or businesses destroyed. But some people are so stuck in their ways, they can’t see we’re turned paradise into a highway or parking lot.
Great video and it works for that scenario. I'm from Houston, have family near Nasa, and have clients in Houston, but live 35 miles north of Dallas near Denton. Do the same scenario for me with 2 client meetings in one day and it falls apart. With a car, I can get 3 hours of calls done while I'm driving, I have no lost time in the airport and I'm not waiting for Uber to move between appts. I can visit my parents, perhaps stay with them overnight and repeat the scenario in the am on the way back. Costs for Air or Train would go up significantly with an appt. in Katy and one in Clearlake. I"m a fan of rail, did the high speed from Offenbach to Paris with family a few years ago for the experience. You just have to use the mode of travel that works for the scenario. I subscribed, keep up the great work! Peace
Yup, HSR is definitely not the right tool for every job -- particularly if it's like a family of four, but your scenario with client meetings definitely makes it dicey, too.
@@CityNerd Why does it not work for a family of four?
Its much easier to get two kids on a train with both parents watching them. Then one distracted parent driving, kids making a ruckus in the back and an inability for the parent to attend them. You have to wait for an exit to stop the car. If the kids need a bathroom, easy on a train. If the kids want food, easy on a train. Not to mention the stress of being in traffic trapped in a car. In the train, you can move around and stretch. Also the train is a billion times safer.
If Tracy was really all about the environment she could also take the bus from the proposed Houston station, down to Rice university lol. I've found Houston Metro buses to be quite undependable tho.
I'm amazed how many comments I'm seeing saying that Carl would surely have to stop at least once. I would definitely not stop in a ~4 hour drive. I'd rather just get where I'm going. Just don't chug water before you leave and you're good.
Video idea : Train vs Plane vs Car - Florida edition ?
You probably need to include TSA security for the train as well, if London high speed rail was an indication.
The train time and costs are assuming we believe the numbers that likely came from their marketing department and assuming that plane and car costs will be the same when the train line is completed and at peak capacity. We may have self-driving e-cars by then, for example.
The self driving car example could hypothetically give Carl back the study time (not that any of them would study/work on their papers before Sunday night).
Three nits to pick with your analysis:
1. Carl drives a cheap car and he drives in Texas which consistently has some of the lowest fuel prices in the country. His costs will undershoot the GSA rates significantly.
2. The assumption that the rail ticket fare is similar to the air ticket fare is flawed. Real high speed trains are generally more expensive than air travel for similar distances. Two major factors here are: Air travel is subsidized by the government. And rail has expensive per-mile infrastructure that air travel avoids. For reference, consider fare studies in Europe between city pairs and between low cost air carriers and high speed rail.
3. The assumption that American high speed rail will run stations and boarding similar to the rest of the world is flawed. Long distance Amtrak trains currently have 30 minute pre-checkin procedures, and TSA is constantly working on ways to assert authority over security. It's possible that this private venture will avoid the checkin process, but it's also equally possible that they will get no say when TSA decides they need to implement airport-style security at the train station.
I hear you. I few thoughts --
(1) Carl drives a cheap car, but he's a 19 year-old male, so his insurance is probably relatively astronomical.
(2) I did compare rail and air fare in example city pairs in another video. Rail fares are usually the same or lower, but yeah, it does depend on the country's approach to incentivizing.
(3) I take the Cascades (Amtrak's slightly-higher-than-normal-speed service between Eugene, OR and Vancouver, BC) often, and have definitely shown up 15 minutes before departure with no problem...in fact, a lot of people do. Admittedly, it hasn't always been this way in the US, but I'm optimistic about our ability to streamline this.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment!
I know you acknowledged this in the video already, but it just isn't accurate to use reimbursement based on average driving for a long trip which is going to put less stress on the engine, transmission, brakes, suspension (in most states anyway), tires, pretty much every part of the car - and have the best fuel efficiency for pretty much any non-hybrid vehicle.
That said, definitely still a great case for high speed rail. I really wish CAHSR had been completed on time (based on the original 2008 schedule) because I've driven from SoCal to the bay area and back around 10 times in the last 12 months and I'm tired of it.
Also, something that would be interesting to cover at some point: with so many cities having truly terrible transit infrastructure, I'd like to see a high-speed auto train implemented some day.
Nathaniel, why did you waste so much time driving all that way? You know there's this invention that the Americans came up with called the airplane, right?
To the high-speed auto train idea, I think those concepts are at odds. The auto train takes about 3 hours to stock all its automobiles at its origin, then has to assemble the consist over the next 1.5 hours. Instead of arriving at the station 10-30 minutes before departure, you're committed to 1.5+ hours lead time. At the destination, you have to wait until your car is switched around the terminus and unloaded. While Amtrak's service clearly has a client base, dragging along 2 tons of personal vehicle seems antithetical to high speed travel. Finding other means to cover lacking transit, like a folding e-bike, seems like a better option.
@@davidl6558 well, there are normally rental car places next to public and private transit...
Of course in the future they will all be self driving so you'll just bring up the Hertz app and call a car and will come to you by itself. All battery/h2 powered of course.
@@neutrino78x it was the middle of the pandemic before my family was able to get vaccinated. I was visiting my elderly grandparents, one of whom has a history of heart disease and pre-diabetes. I didn’t have a place to quarantine in NorCal so I had to quarantine in SoCal and then car bubble.
@@davidl6558 that’s an excellent point I hadn’t thought about since I live on the wrong coast for the auto train.
An e-bike won’t fix Bay Area transit, sadly. Getting from the South Bay to anywhere in the peninsula, east bay, or the city is still going to take at least 90 minutes and cost at least 15 dollars each way. It’s really awful
Ok the photo at 13:31 confused me. We see two Lion Air B737s at the gate and in the back we see a Transavia B737. Lion Air flies in south east Asia. Mainly Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand. Transavia is a Dutch/French carrier with operation in Europe and the Mediterranean. Where was this picture taken. What airport has overlap with Lion Air and Transavia. If somebody knows please tell me. In the meantime I’m going to google this
Haha, its a mystery! I pulled it from Pixabay and I don't think the metadata offers any clues.
Leaving your house at 10am for a flight that boards at 11 is dicey.
Speed, schmeed. You can bike from Dallas to Houston in like 6 days, and if you can do that you can go in a direction that doesn't involve ending up in Houston.
the only problem with building a train between houston and dallas is you’ll need a car to get around either city lol
The same issue arises whenever you fly anywhere
Oh look, it's an engagement.
PS: thanks for the visual shoutouts to my alma mater, The University of Texas at Austin!
Hook 'em, Horns! 🤘
A Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal - Quebec City somewhat high speed rail plan (Via High Frequency Rail proposal) recently went into procurement. Shamelessly requesting a video on that, where it would also be good to compare existing rail, because all those routes exist, but they're slow and at the mercy of a busy freight rail corridor.
I'll add it to the list! That corridor is a great candidate.
Saturday morning at 10 am and able to go 30 miles in minutes? Where are you at? Start the race at 5 am and you can claim this. Traffic 7 days a week almost 18 hours a day at least.
Omg Texas!! That's me!
Interesting video, and I do agree for the most part that there are definitely places in the US where this would be beneficial, but...
If they did carpool, and each drove/paid for a third of the trip, their individual cost would be under $53 and time spent driving only 80 minutes. This is cheaper, and shorter than all three options presented. They all would also get 160 minutes of accumulated study time while not driving, which is almost as much as only one of them got in the three single traveler options. Actually, even with only two students, it's almost better as well, costing only $79, and allowing 120 minutes of study time for both of them
Again, I do really think there are places where we could all benefit from HSR, and I don't think this is a bad example per se, but when it's a "group" activity like college students going to the game, I think the car might always come out on top for a distance like this, or even quite a bit longer. As long as everyone stays sober, and can drive home safely that night.