How to setup a computer DAW & external MIDI hardware studio
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Integrating hardware MIDI synths, samplers & drum machines etc into a computer music studio. You don't need a mixer. This is how to setup your computer DAW (Cubase, Logic, Pro-Tools etc) & External MIDI hardware studio using any 8 Line-input audio interface.
If you do go with this technique, here's solutions to get LOTS of inputs into your DAW:
• How to get LOTS of inp...
It's truly surprising how few people discuss the issue of connection and how the DAW model works. Thanks!
Finally a clear, concise explanation of how to step up a computer DAW with my gear.
Brilliant! Both the diagrams and the lecture are just so good. Taking a wild guess, I'd say that 90% or so of creators' Explainer Videos assume far too much of the beginner [would be] home studio artist.
thankyou
This is really good and clear, thank you. A few comments.
1. The problem with AU inputs is that you are quickly running out of them. You want to add a guitar? You have another drum machine? External effects? Soft Synths from an Ipad? There are never enough inputs on an Audio Interface if you start going hybrid and adding more gear. Yes, you can use digital inputs and yes there are preamp extensions. But all of that adds costs and complexity.
2.The nice thing about hardware is that you can make music away from your computer. I like my DAW and all the capabilities it gives me. But whenever I launch my DAW I am first confronted with myriads of updates and upgrades. Whenever I power on my hardware I make music. So if you want to do both, work independently from your computer as well as integrate everything in your DAW, adding a hardware mixer I feel is the best option. Especialy since these days mixers also come with an USB audio interface.
But clearly, the approach you are describing is the most economical one for peps that use a limited number of hardware instruments and will always jam, mix and master with a DAW.
I have to say ... this is probably the best, simple, and most concise explanation of basic set up I've ever seen - fantastico!! Thank you!!
cheers mate.
Thank you, been trying to figure out exactly how to do this lately, and surprisingly it's not easy to find any clear info for a "dummie". This was spot on. Thanks again.
Finally a video that's addressed most of my questions, thank you!
Absolutely. Thank for being so clear and concise
Thanks for the detailed explanation. This setup is exactly what I was looking for, and the clarity, i.e., graphics, animation, and audio quality, is greatly appreciated.
Best,
This is just what I’ve been looking for. Thank you.
Great video! This is nice if your synths have a midi THRU port; otherwise you can't just chain them as you show but you need to use a midi thru box.
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for with my new Scarlette 18i20. I’m running my guitar direct in and then a DI box to simultaneously record a clean signal on track two- but was struggling on where to run the signal out to from my Midi Controller/Sampler/Fader and a drum machine. I then want to run my Guitar Pedals as a separate track that I can send audio out to- this made everything a lot clearer!
Thank you!
I would recommend a few things, since your already at this point. :) midi interface would be good, a hub (i use thunderbolt) which allows even allows additional midi interfaces as you expand! Oh and a mixer! These things can allow you to have less than 8 inputs or use inputs for other things. The mixers give you individual settings and eq’s. The Midi interface allows each piece to be controlled via the master board, and the hub is just great for expansion. I actually run 15 synths, 2 drum machines, 1 sampler drum machine, and one sampler with two computers midi networked! I have two interfaces with more inputs and out puts all sync’d together with the option to make either computer the master. One computer is a imac and the other is a macbook pro, and for the longest time i did not realize i could midi network the two so i would find myself going back n forth for different stuff. Not tho, its one big super music making machine! Just my two cents
Greetings,
I am trying to do just that! I used to have a home studio in the early 90s when MIDI was still quite new, now things have changed, some for better, some for worse.
I want to use my Korg Pa3X 's internal sequencer(assigning patches and vocal harmonies to midi tracks 1-16) and my Alesis drum machine for selecting patches in my DAW(Cubase). I have two midi interfaces, an M-Audio M-Track and a
Volt 2. (2 Ins and 2 Outs each)
Also, I have Cubasis 3.4 on my iPad which I want to integrate into my workflow.
I've bought a new Yamaha MG-XU mixer with USB connectivity.
The audio setup is a Rockville subwoofer going into a pair of Yamaha HS5.
I have a Mackee Thump which I want to use for alternative mono sound while mixing.
I would gladly pay you via Venmo, Zelle, or Apple Pay, if you could help me set it up correctly.
You can contact me by replying to this message, or find me on Facebook under James Bastani (Jamshid). Thanks in advance!
@dancetech I've been waiting since yesterday for my MOTU 4x4 Audio Interface to arrive via crappy UPS when I accidentally came upon your very helpful video explaining exactly how to use it with my two keyboards and Cubase as soon as I unbox it. With your help, I won't even need to read whatever instructions are included with it. Thanks so much for a very simple and succinct tutorial.
Thought i'd add this from the audio interface roundup as a video in it's own right - people might need this as a topic
thank you for your time
Is this making 1 of the 2 signals "out of phase".? I am really Missing something here in combining 2 separate signals from 2 devices into a "Y" to save 1 space into the interface or patch bay.
@@zazoomatt mate, keep your replies int he same thread.
yes... thanks so much for your time & efforts here.
Another useful video. I like your style of presentation and you "sound" like you know your stuff. I'm a novice home studio guy looking for a simple and effective multitrack system with midi integration. I'm hoping the Behringer U-phoria 1820 will work with my MPC ONE some cheap synths and a humble eurorack modular system, and also an oldish windows 10 laptop.
this was incredibly helpful. simplifying this stuff dissolves the fear impulse in me that seems to be on some quest to thwart my creative efforts. nasty little dragon being slayed in real time... yaaaay!!
same. found this video really helped me understand it.
Finally, someone that explains it in such a way that my dumb brain can understand! Thank you so much!
thank you i was needing to hear this!! and now I'm researching about MIDI splitters
Another great tutorial lesson very helpful grateful this is keeping coming with it. Much needed
give thanks
Will I have to do this every time I open Logic or does it remember?
Best video I’ve seen explaining this yet! Thanks a million!
My setup:
-Mac Studio
-Yamaha P-35
-Yamaha KX88
-Prophet Rev 2
-Yamaha DX7
-Mic
-Acoustic guitar/Acoustic guitar/Ukulele
You create a project & load that with the settings all ready to go
Great great video!;) I just have to make a comment on this. Cos for many years I have liked to make music with and external mixer but never got it to work right I could play midi but not record it properly audio. I saw this video and thought I give it a shot so I brought a 1824c. I had big problems to get it working but on my way to give up. This morning I got my sound out from my external synth. I had created a midi track in Pro Tools and recorded directly to an audiotrack in monitor mode. Just like you say I would be able to. I never tought of this metode but yes its a rally rally great way to do it. So I will say thank you so much for revealing this. Im so happy now thank you.
👍 cool
And you can Have a MIDI controller mapped to your DAWs mixer so you get The tactility of a hardware mixer combined with The benefits of a vst mixer.
👌☑️
mmm... tactility.
Of all the Logic videos I've watched yours are the most understandable. Now I have a huge request. I just purchased a Soundcraft 22MTK, which to me is the ultimate hybrid mixer. I'm having problems just trying to make everything make sense, especially with logic. I know eventually by pushing all the buttons and swearing a great deal I would be able to figure it out. But I was hoping if you had both time and the desire, you could do a series on this mixer. This mixer is truly the best of both worlds. I would greatly appreciate it. Please keep up the great work you do. It has helped me a ton.
It's nothing to do with Logic, this mixer would work the same with any DAW. The issue is, how do you plan to use it? what are you doing? Recording a band using multiple microphones? Routing lot's of external midi hardware? How are you planning to use it?
@@dancetech I am recording a band . I'm just very new to the whole process of recording especially hybrid mixing,
well the way I would use it is: plug the mics in to channels, set the gain, and then route to DAW track, then switch all Mic channels to USB so you are listening to the RETURN FROM THE DAW track on each channel. That's the traditional multitrack method.
@@dancetech I'll give it a try. Thanks for the response, it is greatly appreciated.
This is good foundation for hardware to daw music production. This is where you start and the possibilities from here is limited by you budget and imagination.
Best video on this subject I have found! Thanks for this explanation.
I've done a bit of that. I have a Yamaha W5, Roland JV 1000 and Roland JV80. I have a midi 2x2, a midi 1x1 and 1x1 on the MIDI interface. But to get Logic to know which sound, what bank! and device was a nightmare. Only the W5 is loaded with 10's of sounds. But to get the playing or midi score to get to the right synth, right sound/bank, play through headphones and being able to record the audio from them into Logic it is rocket science.
I might be able to change sound but to change bank I have no idea. It is possible to Logic did that in the 90's. I could have a couple of sounds from one device, a couple from another and some from a third multitimbral but it's so hard to get MIDI and audio.
Unless you have a mixer with multitracking out. Btw your tutorial, make a song in Logic, knocking on heavens door was my first ever music production tutorial, many years ago! Much respect!!
I have the exact set up, I'm now in the process of getting a midi clock and jam with hardware synths while record it all via DAW. Struggling with the configuration at the moment
Great review, overall very informative with a clear explanation.
wowwww, great video!!!!!! you answered all my questions
Surely there's no "best" way to do it.
I'm thinking that if you output your audio from the pc into the individual outputs on the audio interface you're using and then into their own individual channels on your mixing desk alongside any outputs from your external equipment, you get to use the unique characteristics of whatever mixing desk you're using. EQ, Compressors etc?
This was a really useful video as I had been running different ways of doing this through my head for a while and couldn't make my mind up as to which was the best way to do it.
Thanks
thanks. If you need more than 8 physical inputs, this might be useful: ruclips.net/video/7rsaYq5jYxE/видео.html
@@dancetech Im sorry to say Im not that rich hahah thank you anyway
@@NailBombEnjoyer about 320 quid for the cheapest 16 input solution. 👍
You are a God send. Thank you thank you thank you for this tutorial. Clear, concise accurate and succinct. Thank you very very kindly. This is the best birthday surprise I got today. :)!!
incredibly helpful, excellent teaching.
You get all the style points. thank you.
Excellent setup / video DT !!
great overview, couple of things ......
- what about if we have some hardware reverbs we want to use as sends on each channel of the DAW ?
- what is a midi interface used for? such as the rack midi interfaces with tonnes of midi ports at the back of the units ?
Good to know this and a very good presentation of whats normally a nightmare to even imagine
Thanks. I thought about trying to describe it in words only. very difficult to convey, hence the graphics.
Thanks very much, very concise and to the point.
Thank you kindly, straight to the point
1:45 probably should point out that you want a MIDI Thru box to connect your hardware to the DAW. Each piece of hardware will be auto assigned a MIDI channel and samplers will usually get 10 or so MIDI channels for all the various individual sounds. Now most importantly I don't know what I'm talking about as I am learning this myself so may of just typed incorrect info. You should be able to assign the channels yourself and I've had the issue where after auto connecting some MIDI channels are a mix of different synths and even different patches not actually selected.
welcome to the wonderful world of MIDI hardware! 👍.. but no, hardware does not get auto-assigned a channel, you assign the channel manually (although some GM 'player' units might break that rule, but that's a whole other type of unit with a specific purpose), additionally some multi-timbrel instruments might assign 16 patch 'slots' to channels 1-16 ascending... Yes, correct, it is always better and easier to have a midi THRU distribution box, which makes things much easier than daisy-chaining MIDI THRU each hardware unit
Thank you for this video. I had no idea how to add my Yamaha DGX 660... I am going to give this a try.
You can use the DGX 660 as your master keyboard& use it's internal sounds at the same time , but when you are playing the same keyboard you also want the DAW to record & trigger, you turn Local Control OFF... that way, the notes when you play go to the DAW MIDI track, pass THRU and back to the keyboard to trigger whatever patch is on whatever channel you're playing.
@@dancetech thank you. You are amazing 👌🏼💯😎
Wow, I've been doing it wrong this whole time. Thanks my dude!
Straight to the point...excellent
Thanks very much! Crystal clear.
Your pushing it with 4 devices in the MIDI chain due to signal degradation. Typically you don't want more than 4 (total device count using the 5din connector) in your chain. Current MIDI implementation is 40 years old and doesn't scale very well. (MIDI 2.0 is out, but not widely adopted yet)
The 2nd device in the chain (and throughout the rest of the chain), use MIDI THRU and not MIDI OUT. Additionally, each external MIDI device has a unique channel assigned (MIDI CH 1-16). Important details for those who are new to this. In doing this, each of your DAW MIDI tracks can choose whatever external device you want to use on that particular track.
Overall, the video is good in it's explanation and everything else rings true.....just a few details missing that might frustrate you!
it's just a picture to illustrate the concept, not an actual midi connection chart.
I am so grateful for all your videos and the time you so generously put into educating me and every body who waits patiently for your newest release. I am thinking of buying a JV-1080 and a Roland SH-32 from a friend and am hoping to use it with an old Roland XP-50 with Logic pro X. This is helpful. I hope you will do more on this topic. For instance, how can I use a XP-50 synth as a midi controller or can I?
Yes you could use any synth with midi as the master keyboard. If you also want that synth to play it's own internal sounds as part of the composition then there's a further technique required to set that up, which i should have included in this video. Now i'll have to make a part-2 video dammit :)
I'm trying to get the first setup you mentioned. I think that was a picture of the mixer I got, Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK....I don't like mixing in the DAW, I like sliding faders a moving knobs... I'm trying to get my sync/click set up so everyone knows the tempo.
I finally found a video that explains the connections.. what is midi? Mmmm who cares how do I connect it? … this video!!
Excellent video! Thanks for that!
best explanation on youtube
In a word...BRILLIANT. Definitely stated already, FINALLY a vid that answers my questions. Peace...Netm8kr
Fantastic m8,very well explained,cheers👏👍
Thanks. I still wonder about midi thru
Years ago, for life performance I used Cakewalk to dump control messages just to setup my audio devices for sounds, levels, patches and what not. I had a bunch of songs saved on Cakewalk, but with nothing but the control messages. Would you kindly cover that topic? Cheers! :)
The conceptual part of this is very good and spot on. But I feel as though there is a few concerns here you are not addressing. Yes, you maybe accurate saying that there wont be noticeable latency. But when you now go to multitrack record from each of the line inputs (synths) and you sequence (send midi notes) from the DAW using MIDI or some other sequencer, the notes will not line up with the recorded audio. the tracks will be off. I was hoping you would talk about this in this video.
Good question. Well, as midi data has no delay worth talking about, any recorded audio will be "out" by exactly the same as any live recorded guitars, bass, vocals or any other mic recorded media would be relative to midi in any project. You can easily adjust for that though if you want by simply lining up the midi / audio and discovering the delay and then setting any tracks to a minus delay of a however many ticks. However, most DAW's like logic have a setting for record delay (in logic it is next to the audio interface assignment settings & buffer settings) which you can set from the get-go. once you know the delay of your system at whatever buffer size you work at (which would need to be low anyways 32 or 64 samples).
You know the video will be good the moment you hear his British accent
great and amazing video! thank you so much!
Great video! Thank you.
this is exactly what i do, but with 2 identical setups. 2 computers, 2 8 channel recorders, one in slave mode thru optical. the second computer serves as an instrument, second to the master computer.
Finally..I get the inputs..for my outputs! So..thank you veeeeeery much for this!
Inspiring.
Hello Again. Thanks for this tutorial. It has been years since I had my 24 track analogue studio. When you mention out from the audio interface, you didn't mention IN to the hardware. Is it OUT to IN or OUT to OUT please. I also suspect that if it is out from the Audio interface to the IN of the synth, it id OUT from the synth to the in of the next synth. Is that correct?
Learned something new today
Lovely!
Thank you bro
Thank you
You’ve just answered so many questions i’ve been searching for. The diagrams and the way you explain is absolutely perfect for us beginners, thank you for all this valuable information.
Quick question, is that midi out from the audio interface to midi in or thru on the synth, bassline ect?
The MIDI OUT from the DAW/Computer goes into the MIDI IN of all external hardware. You can either connect them up in series using MIDI THRU on each unit if it has that socket (so IN to the first unit, THRU from that to the IN of the next unit etc), but it is far better to use a MIDI distribution THRU Box and bring the DAW MIDI into that and then send THRU from that box to all hardware units on their own MIDI cable, makes life easier.
@@dancetech Thank you so much for the quick response and for explaining that the way you did, i’m so glad i found your channel! All my hardware has MIDI thru and usb. Was thinking about getting the Kenton MIDI Thru 12, would that be ok? And yeah i can see just how beneficial it would be. Thanks again 👍
@@HatchetHarry yeah, Kenton have been doing that stuff since dinosaurs ruled the earth, cant go wrong with their boxes👍
@@dancetech Glad to know i’m on the right path, just noticed some of my hardware doesn’t have a THRU, what would i do then? Is this where the daisy chain comes into play or is it something else completely?
Thanks ! This video helps me a lot ! I'd just one question : do I need a Midi Thru case if I want to send different midi infos to my external hardwares or can I just connect them like a chain ? Thanks for your answer, keep going! :)
you can connect them like a chain, assuming they have enough THRU sockets on them, but tbh it's better to have a MIDI distribution box if you have a few bits of gear.
@@dancetech Thanks mate
I have Presonus audio interface with midi connection on the back.
PS...I can't find midi channel assign in Garageband??
Thank you! I’m completely new to this and this may be a dumb question but I don’t know and you probably do, so here it goes: If I want to run a sample through some external hardware is there a way to loop that sample of the DAW through the hardware back into the DAW, or do I need a hardware sampler for this? Thank you!
For most beginners, an 8 input interface may be too expensive, therefore an ordinary mixer with stereo Outs maybe their most affordable solutions.
That offers no solution to the problem, you still need an audio interface, even a stereo i/o one to run the DAW ... Add a cheap mixer to that & you are at the same price/cost as a starter cheap Behringer 8 input interface (Behringer umc1820 = 195 euros)
digidesigns exist.. find an oldschool one!!
You left out the huge problem people have with the delayed start a lot of hardware synths have when triggered by the DAW sequencer. Then you manually lining up the audio. Protools has a midi offset setting for each channel but for some reason just does nothing. This is the biggest issue. The ERM Multiclock has offset setting to set each device to its corresponding delay offset. But I haven’t bought on because it’s unclear if this value changes with buffers setting changes which would be a PITA.
you mean the latency when the hardware audio passes thru the system right? that only can be an issue if you are also using onboard generated sounds which are NOT passing thru combined with sounds from hardware passing thru, otherwise everything you hear has the exact same latency (if any) ... but if you set low audio sample buffers - like 32 or 64 samples - thru latency is so small it's not really perceptible & when you record the hardware & then play it back for final mix any THRU discrepancy goes away. Also at the end of the day all the daws have an auto time-align now so you can just switch that on to align all beats and also if required divisions to each other for all audio recordings, making them totally locked, & choose a reference master track for them all to sync to ... Logic does that with FLEX & Groove track for example.
Great videos mate, keep it up, however what if someone has ONLY a small mixer, a basic 2ch interface, And very little money?
in that scenario, you'd send all hardware to the mixer, send the mixer L/R OUT in to the daw input L/R, then compose your external midi parts. To record each external bit of kit to the daw, you'd mute any other mixer channels which are active, record that bit of midi kit to an audio track in the daw, add fx & eq etc in the daw to that newly recorded audio track & carry on like that, recording each item of midi kit one by one to audio tracks and then mixing those stems in with the onboard daw sounds. Obviously any external midi kit running on the mixer will have no fx unless the mixer has fx built in or the synth has built in fx, or you have external hardware fx, but tbh a cheap old s/h midiverb type of unit would get you delay & reverb ok, you could even use guitar fx pedals just to get some basic reverb & delay
@@dancetech I know it may be too much to ask, but could you do a short video of that please? Thanks mate, great stuff.
yes, but ideally i want to wait until i have rebuilt my work room. When that is done i'll have a mixer, 8 track & lost of hardware setup again & I will be doing lots of hardware & DAW tutorials 👍
Many thanks 🎉😂❤
Audio is half the battle. Or a quarter. Midi hookup is the bigger question, imo.
I did explain it a bit in the video. You simply set the midi track you are playing/recording MIDI into to the same channel as the hardware item you want to trigger. But yes it needs to be explained much clearer for noobs. With that in mind I am completely rebuilding my RUclips room right now with a full hardware setup, so i'll be doing more videos on this topic with actual working examples soon. 👍
Great video, i'm building a new studio at the moment and was wondering, with the line inputs for instance from the casio and the rack below, are those 2 inputs mono?
i have logic pro 6 (daw)
akai s3000 xl (sampler)
yamaha pss 680 (midi keyboard)
primarily (for now) i just want to trigger the samples from the akai with my midi keyboard, and have that recorded down into the daw.
i have a 2x2 midi interface, but have forgotten how to connect that all up.
keyboard (out)
midi interface (in)
midi interface (out)
akai (in)?
i'm sure that's how it used to work when i was using the atari 1040 st running cubase 3.
Most excellent.
great video 2 things I have a question about.. midi so when you want to play midi in how do you assign the correct unit would the first one literally be midi 1 then next one 2 so on? and how would you use a midi interface in this set up.. and also how would you add fx units onto the audio channels/hardware units so say I was playing the supernova in this set up and wanted to add a delay hardware unit fx onto the supernova how do I do that? thanks in advance
RE: The external Midi devices. Are these being Chained, Out to Out to Out? And then, I get to, Oops, My Dreadbox Nymphes, which is USB. Nymphes works, has a MONO OUT only and is recognized by Cubase; it just doesn't have the DIN MIDI. And then, finally, a bit puzzled as to, for example, HOW I would feed a VST synth like Zebra2 into my ZOOM Multi Stomp, in order to apply the zoom FX to the synth. In short, I've got 4 desktop synths (a fifth coming) and it seems like I'll be doing a lot of Connecting, Disconnecting, Reconnecting to record them then set them aside when not in use. Sometimes I think I maybe should have picked Boardgames Collector as my hobby.
no you cant daisy chain MIDI via OUT connectors, only THRU (unless the synth has an internal switch to switch the OUT socket to THRU function). For USB synths simply connect them up and assign the midi track designated to that synth to that usb midi out, you can still route the audio OUT from that synth as shown.
Sending a VST synth audio OUT and through external fx and back into the mix is another subject. The routing is obvious: use a spare audio out which is not part of the main L/R OUT monitor chain & send the synth out into the fx unit & back in again via a spare designated audio interface audio INPUT socket, but the issue there is latency, which will be more than triggering via an external hardware synth via midi and routing it's audio IN to the DAW mix, cos it's a round trip in this case.. OUt from the vst synth thru the fx unit and back In to the daw. But with very low buffers set on the audio interface it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
@@dancetech Great info! RE: your paragraph 2. I think if I read and reread...and then have someone read it aloud whilst I sleep, it's gonna sink in and become clear. I have a direct support link to a guy at iConnnectivity. My audio interface is the Audio4+. While it has a LOT of tricks up its sleeve, it has fewer Inputs than the one you're using. I'm sure much will translate, I'm sure. I simply haven't contacted my iConnect guy since I had the brain spasm which caused me to acquire a bunch of desktop synths. Anyway, I will share the info you've provided with him. HE will say, sure....all that's right, so what's the prob? He'll then open his utensils drawer and spoon feed me a bit. Thanks!!
@@watchaddicts1213 lol, maybe get more inputs.. did you see this video? ruclips.net/video/7rsaYq5jYxE/видео.html - the soundcraft unit btw also comes in a 12 channel version (Ui12) which is really cheap, like 300 ish
How would Integrated my Allen & Heath GS3 Inline Pult in your case, to get the possibility for hands on the mixer? Would be great if you can helf with ideas Chris
All through the 90s and early 2000s I did tons of midi programing within Cubase/Logic and had pretty decent Midi/USB interface (Motu) and ATARI earlier before that. The midi was super tight and everything was monitored and recorded through the mixing desk and captured to DAT etc.
USB/MIDI is nothing like before, have tried tons of the newer stuff(iconnetivity, etc), they all have midi latency,. I don't like recording digital audio into DAW but do you think I could use the set up you have above to have zero latency of Midi, Audio playback because the DAW would correct the any delay and we could print audio to the DAW or capture the left and right signal out from DAW to another external recorder, DAT, Tape etc. Will also the Metronome with the DAW be in sync with the Monitoring of all the external instruments. Just trying to have alternate possibilities of recording. Thank You!!
I would turn down the sample/bit rate from around the usual 512 to 128-192
You are right. There will be latency once the data from the midi keyboard is processed by the DAW and is sent to the hardware unit.
My soundcard with 2 line ins has a digital connection thingy. Is this so I can connect more line ins (via a connected line in mixer that supports it) or something or do I just go out and buy a new soundcard? My music tech teacher said having the digital input was a great thing to add more channels but I never looked into it. I never needed it until now and it sounded expensive.
I have a query I hope you can help with.
I have 6 external synths / drum machines but would also like to add my mixer to how you have set up in the video.
I have a Mackie 1402 VLZ4 mixer (and a Behringer UMC1820 interface which arrived today!)
I’d like the mixer involved to try and get away from the computer as much.
Thanks in advance - absolute belter of a video btw!
but, you can't trigger a synth/machine if any of the other instruments in the chain prior are turned off??
if you are daisy chaining MIDI then either dont turn them off or use a MIDI THRU distribution box
Thank you for this but I have a question… i’m running my guitar and base guitar through an effects processor and then from there I’m going line in to my audio interface… I also have other effect pedals i’m going to add in a chain… All of these have Midi and I would like all of the effects petals and all of my synthesizers and my drum machine to be clocks synced to Ableton using ableton as the master clock.
Any idea how to accomplish this?
Thank you again for the video. It was very helpful
Hey! nice video! I am planning to buy a behringer Model D synth. My only question is, does a Model D Synth control VSTi? I know it might be a wrong question here but any idea!?
Midi out to each hardware units? A daisy chain? Because I only see one output.
yup
Are you then effectively using the audio interface & DAW combination to replace the mixer?
My question too
I am still unclear on why a digital mixer that sends each channel to the DAW isn't a viable option. Isn't a digital mixer with a per-channel output to PC via USB the same basic idea as using a multi-channel audio interface to send each piece of outboard analog MIDI controlled hardware to the PC (and per-channel into the DAW)?
Besides the ability to adjust the audio on its way IN to the PC via all the digital mixer pans, fades, EQ, AUX S/R, etc: isn't the digital mixer MORE capable than an audio interface?
Aren't Interface units typically outfitted with a gain adjustment, and maybe pan if you're lucky? Even the interfaces with a possible high number of inputs that cost significantly more than the typical 2x and 4x Interface Input options, just do not have a lot of audio modification options available. Certainly not the options available to a mixer.
I have been considering something that may be the best of both worlds. A UNIT that accepts 8, 12, 24 + expanded options by stacking units and using optical / digital audio to link the units and double, triple, quadruple - and so on - the number of available inputs.
This would be using a desktop (or rackmount version) of a digital mixer. It has approximately the same footprint as a multi-channel audio interface, and about as many onboard options. They appear real simple: Inputs, maybe a gain knob, and perhaps a basic VU LED on some of the nicer ones. They have USB (2, 3, and C) mixer to PC connections. Many have optical audio I/O, in which you can chain two, three, four, and more units together, expanding the number of inputs by the number available per mixer in each link of that chain.
Like the Soundcraft Ui24R :
24 channels of inputs
Rack mounted
All traditional mixer controls exist in the control application - available on any PC, laptop, tablet or phone OS.
Or the
Behringer X32 Rack 40-channel Rackmount Digital Mixer
Add 8, 16, 14, and 32 channel expansion boxes, connected via Ethernet or optical. Monitor and DSP & manipulate on iPad / iPhone.
Perhaps the Midas DL32 32-input & the Midas M32C Digital Rackmount Mixer? Again, uses built-in Ethernet port, to connect each unit, as well as one to connect to a local network for remote control via your computer. Or connect to a wireless network and control the M32C with your iPad, iPhone, or Android device remotely.
Again. No deed for a mixing deal when you can control it all remotely with a PC, laptop, phone or tablet.
Some of these have an insane amount of outputs for different monitor mixes. Lots of onboard effects. Some have the ability to use outboard effects with traditional sends & returns.
Maybe my favorite is the PreSonus StudioLive 32R 32-channel Rackmount Digital Mixer. It boasts 40/40 Input/ Output, expandable to 55x55 I/O over Ethernet.
A second Ethernet port is used to operate the virtual mixing deal surface software, called UC Surface: available for Mac, Windows, and iPad. That is for the engineer. How about all the outputs? This thing could run 8 monitor outputs. Don't sweat it! Al those monitor mixes can be tended to via the QMix-UC APP: available for both iOS and Android. Whether it's a monitor engineer, or the performer with his phone, another piece of gear (monitor mixing desk) that doesn't need to be transported, or set up.
This one kind of blues the line between traditional and rack mount remote controlled digital mixer, but it's close The Allen & Heath Qu-Pac 22 in/12 out Rackmountable Digital Mixer is outstanding.
16 Mono + three stereo input channels
12 onboard Mix Outputs, expandable to 40 in and 24 separate outs.
This one uses an app only available via iPad. Turn off for me, but plenty of people use them.
Next... Even Yamaha!! The TF-Rack 40-channel Digital Rackmount Mixer.
A lot like the previous one. Fuzzy. And yes, they have an expansion rackmount unit with 16 more inputs and 12 more outputs per unit. called the Yamaha Tio1608 with IN and OUT Ethernet connections in each: Making it easy to chain THREE more of these together. That means you could feasibility have 64 inputs and 48 outputs if you maxed out the expansion units. Yamaha has a trio of apps to utilize this gear. PC, Mac iOS, iPad can all be used for various operational functions.
The inexpensive Zoom LiveTrak L20R 20-channel Remote-controlled Digital Mixer / Recorder might be the way to go for those on a tight budget. 22in/ 4out USB from the unit to any Mac or PC. An iPad app exists to wirelessly control the on screen mixing desk- so even though it exports the audio (per channel) to a DAW on any kind of computer - you still an iPad to control the virtual mixing desk. This unit doesn't expand our like the others, but does have an internal SD card recorder that will record each input individually, or make a mixed down stereo recording, without the need for a computer or DAW.
There are more.
Mackie DL16S & DL32S
MOTU has one
Midas and Soundcraft have other models beyond the ones listed above.
I see this being more and more of a thing. I am leaning this way. I have SO MANY synths, drum machines, mics, and effects that one of these rackmount units plus maybe an expansion unit, along with a patchbay - would consolidate my setup immensely.
Just my 2 cents.
Short answer: In classical multitrack recording you almost never eq BEFORE the recorder except for perhaps some 'corrective' eq adjustments such as a hi-pass to remove bottom-end rumble, because we always want an UN-equalised copy of the mic channel printed to tape/digital - hence recording mixers have monitoring channels (split/inline or hybrid). This is also why ALL music DAW software add their FX/processing plugins AFTER the record point, functioning as monitoring FX/processing.
Given this fact, this is why plugins work fine for monitoring FX/processing & generally people prefer using those with a controller mixer, if a controller-mixer is used at all (which most of the better/pricier digital mixers will actually function as in 'controller' mode).
The main role of the mixer in a studio is ROUTING & for the pre-amps & the main channel EQ section is pretty much only used on final mix-down, & yes, a digital mixer CAN be convenient for routing purposes, but it's not a dealbreaker depending on your setup.
yeah, but some of my lush combi patches on my modules use up to 16 midi channels for one patch! what then?
Set the door external midi track to output on all channels. Obviously you will need to mute any other external hardware units.
@@dancetech hello , i need help i have TG 77 yamaha rack and i buy it some DX electric piano patch, and i need to send the patch to TG 77 witch midi conections , i start to download SY manager 5 and folow the instructions ,but i dont now have to connect my synth rack ,when i connect in modul write missing connection what is wrong? please help me
@@marcusbernhardt7807 sorry, I dunno, but purchases of
Except this doesn't cover if you wanna add external FX processors or if you need extra channels, this can be quite misleading for beginners I think
The entire point of this technique is that it offers a solution for those who do NOT have an external mixer or a selection of external hardware fx processors, but who DO have hardware midi kit or want to integrate external midi hardware. It is an ALTERNATIVE method therefore to buying a mixer and buying external fx processors & all the cables and then still having to make all that works with the DAW setup.
& then there's the laborious process of preparing for the final DAW/outboard final mix down
Personally I own two DAT machines AND a stereo reel to reel mastering machine, but most do not, so to prepare for final bounce/mix inside the DAW without a DAT or other mastering machine you have to track the external content to the DAW, one by one as audio tracks unless you are happy with the entire external sub-mix being in stereo only inside the DAW prior to final bounce-down/mix.
Finally, yes you CAN still use external processors like compressors, pre-amps or eq/channel strips BEFORE the daw inputs, but there's absolutely no sense in using reverb, delay etc fx externally as you can add all that inside the daw & i really doubt there's any noobs out there going: "But I own an old AMS or Lexicon & the reverb plugins wont get me that sound!"
So it is in fact not in the least misleading for beginners. If you need 'extra channels' then you add extra inpus, which we covered in our video: HOW TO GET LOADS OF INPUTS INTO YOUR DAW (ruclips.net/video/7rsaYq5jYxE/видео.html) - where you will see a range of solution to get from 16-32 physical DAW inputs.
hope that helps.
cheers
I have been doing this for years but am now realizing that I cannot use Quantize features that midi recording offers to fix or align timing. I would actually like to use the internal sequencers of my MODX, Nautilus and Fantom 6 all synced together...trying to figure if that can be done
Yes it can, thats how we worked in the old days. Any hardware unit sequence can usually optionally clock as a slave to another sequencer, and the daw can slave to any external sequencer, so you choose one hardware unit as the master and slave the others & the daw to that
The one thing I was wondering, that you did not cover. Don't you need to daisy chain your midi equipment first? So everything you play on your usb keyboard triggers the outboard midi gear?
well OBVIOUSLY you have to connect the external MIDI kit
Unless the DAW/software is capable of midi mapping for external ports, each with 16 channels, you are restricted to just the 16 midi channels you've mentioned/shown.
Using external midi junction boxes, such as a Motu, allows for multiple ports for direct control/access in the computer software.
I've found none of the "new" daw software having this "knowledge", since externals are no longer a priority, just crappy sounding samples and plugins.
The bi-directional usb midi connections can and do cause many software driver issues. Most drivers were developed for either windows or Mac.
Example; an older midi box like Motu, will not work within a Linux midi setup. Likewise a Motif ES rack module which has 8 ports within it, but only accessed by window or mac drivers.
Thanx for posting the video, i have a question: Is it possible when i connect midi in from my keyboard to out on my daw 1 , the out from keyboard to the in from my daw 1 , to use the thru from my keyboard and connect it to the midi in from another daw 2 ? in other words, can i use 1 keyboard to send midi to 2 daws ?
Hi, great video. I’m looking to get a few bits of hardware starting with the Proteus 2000. Only one thing I’m confused about. If I connect my Proteus via midi to my audio interface how would I then connect another piece of hardware? Is it chained via the ‘thru’ midi port on the Proteus and into a line on the audio interface?
dont confuse midi & audio... you connect the MIDI OUT of the audio interface (or from a separate USB Midi port device) and connect to your MIDI hardware via IN & THRU sockets on each device or via a MIDI distribution THRU box with each THRU output being connected to the MIDi Input of each bit of hardware... the audio is completely unrelated & always the same, simply connect the OUTPUTS of the hardware devices to the INPUTS of the audio interface.
Finnally if you want to actually play any bit of midi hardware from a master keyboard, that needs to be connected to the DAW MIDI INPUT.... you leave the master keyboard set to channel 1... select sa mdi track in the DAW and assign that track to the midi channel fo the external device you wish to play & record midi notes & data for.... the dAW midi channel will re-channelise the incoming midi from the master keyboard, sending it back OUT of the daw to your external midi chain on whatever channel the daw midi track is set to
then obviously each bit of external gear needs to be on a different midi channel
When using multi-timbrel midi devices like the Proteus you plan to get then obviously you can assign different patches to midi channels inside that device... just make sure no other bit of external midi kit you add to the chain uses any of the channels utilised by the Proteus (or any other multi-timbrel device)
@@dancetechthank you very much that makes absolute sense now. I’ve go my proteus on the way so when I get my next bit of kit I’ll know what to do in order to get it all working. Keep up the excellent videos please 🙌🏻
@@louiehewitt6514 cool, any questions, just ask 👍
Dear friend, can you please help me with something? I have Yamaha Genos. Yamaha uses registration button. How can I program the registration button to call up a voice in daw?
Great video! I'm still doubting whether to go for the mixer or interface approach.. I recently acquired quite a few vintage hardware synths and 8 ports simply is not enough :( There's a JV-1080, Korg M1R, Yamaha TX81Z, Roland U-220, Roland MKS-50, Roland TR8-S, Roland JP-8080, Korg Minilogue XD and a Behringer TD-03 in the collection. Some/most of those should probably be connected in stereo I reckon. The MIDI connections are clear, but how should I go about connecting up the audio outs? Thanks for any feedback!
well the problem is how many of those units do you want to connect at once. the roland drumbox alone has 8 outs. The cheapest solutions will yield 16 physical line inputs so you can route a max 16 hardware OUTputs IN to your DAW at the same time.
So either a USB equipped mixer which gives 16 USB channels to your DAW or the behringer UMC1820 audio interface with the Behringer ADA8200 ADAT rack added will give you 16 physical IN's.
Above 16 channels your best best is the LIVE PA racks from the likes of Mackie, Behringer, Presonus, Soundcraft etc.
The Mackie DL32R stage rack will give you 32 channels Inputs to your DAW, a BIG channel count, but costs about £1400-£1600 GBP.
The Mackie DL32S stage rack will give you 32 channels Inputs to your DAW, a BIG channel count, and this cheaper version cost about £800 GBP.
The Behringer XR18 stage rack gives 18 inputs to the DAW for just over £500 GBP
The Soundcraft Ui24 stage rack will give you 24 channels to the DAW but costs about £750 GBP
Zoom LiveTrak L-20R gives 20 channels to the DAW for around £600 GBP
Presonus StudioLive Series III 16R, 24R or 32R give 16, 24 or 32 channels via USB to your DAW plus main stereo mix (sum of all inputs) and ghey cost around £950, £1200 & £1400 respectively
Other options would be the Mackie ONYX USB mixers, but the biggest, the Onyx16 still only gives you 18 channels to the DAW, and again it costs more than the Behringer UMC1820 & ADA8200 ADAT rack combination.
Do you see where this is going?
The other option is a traditional mixer with 4 or 8 buses or direct outs feeding a tradition 8 input USB audio interface, which would allow you to monitor the external hardware and DAW audio together on the mixer and route any items to record as and when you need to record them either via direct outs on their channels or by routing them to busses, but unless the mixer has built in FX your external midi kit will be dry with no FX. The solution to that is to get a mixer with 4 or much rarer 8 buses with built in FX, the cheapest of which would be something like the old Behringer sx2442fx mixer or something similar which is current from companies like Behringer, mackie, yamaha, soundcraft, zoom etc.
so the bottom line is, if you want A LOT of midi kit outputs routed to your DAW at the same time, the solution is costly when you go above 16 physical DAW inputs.
@@dancetech Many thanks for your detailed feedback, much appreciated! :)
👍 actually, thanks for the suggestion, because i think i'm going to do a video on this topic because there is really no video out there which makes all this clear. cheers
@@dancetech Exactly .. this is the first video I've encountered that explains it clearly.. Perhaps one more thought - let's assume I want to use a mixer's (like a Mackie for example) overdrive on a kick drum channel, but I only have an 8 channel Mackie. But 8 channels won't be enough in my setup... I don't suppose you could daisy chain mixers? And sorry if that's a really stupid thing to ask but I'm new to hardware setups ;)
And a final thing .. you mentioned 16 channels or more over USB to the DAW, meaning you wouldn't use the mixer's main outputs going into the audio interface?
yeah you can daisy chain mixers, it's not really recommended, but you send the main out from one to 2 inputs on the other in in via a couple of aux returns, but obviously things like SOLO & Aux sends will only work per mixer, not across both unless you start to use stuff like a patchbay to sum sends before they hit rack fx.
Your Q2. If you send a load of hardware to a mixer and then send the final stereo out of the mixer to the DAW, yes, you get the sum of all the hardware mixed to stereo on a stereo track/channel of the DAW... you can monitor that way, and then when it comes time to mix you can mute all but one hardware unit on the mixer, record it to the audio track, make a new audio track, un-mute the next hardware channel/s & record that hardware unit... and go through the hardware units one by one, recording each unit by itself to audio, then mix internal adding fx etc.
The beauty of sending hardware IN to the DAW via audio interface inputs is that you can add fx in the DAW mixer & when you bounce them to audio they will sound identical to how you set them up in the DAW mix cos the same fx will be on their channels.
If you go down the mixer route each bit of hardware has no FX, unless you have mixer fx built into the mixer to add or you use external hardware fx.. and even then, when you bounce them to audio tracks, unless you bounce the fx too then once bounced they sound different without the fx from the board.
i'm going for a big rebuild of my room here soon after which i'll have a full hardware setup again with mixer, midi hardware & rack fx and daw & then i will start to make videos on all this.
cheers