From experience with similar 1/4 and 5/8w verticals, I’d say those issues come down to the install environment - you’re basically firing most of the RF into surrounding vegetation and infrastructure. I suspect that antenna on a rooftop or middle of a field with unobstructed takeoff to the horizon would perform differently. Also, an 80-10 EFHW on 10m is going to have lobes and nulls, making real world A/B type testing quite difficult to do objectively unless you pick the QSO’s by bearing from you…..just my 2c from using Hustlers, GAP’s and mono band verticals in a compromised home environment and then given up and put a yagi on the roof for 10m!
I'm glad I found this video and the comments. I'm looking for antenna options and was excited to find this antenna but after reading the comments, I'll keep looking. I don't have trees in the way but I also have limited options for end or center fed wires because of the lack of trees.
I have a cp610 @20' above the terrain and an 80-10 EFHW (inverted L). On DX there isn't much difference between the two @10m SSB. I have better RX/TX on 10m Local (30-40 mi) contacts with the CP610. The antenna has performed well on 6m for me when there has been openings. I think height above terrain is most likely your issue with this antenna. My understanding is they do better at 30'-40' above the terrain. Thanks for the video! It's nice to compare notes!
Dejavu! During my younger years I have installed many CB antennas on the roofs of Rome. The most common was the "Mantova 1" produced by the italian Sigma Antenne. A very robust 5/8 with 4 loaded radials. In order for the antenna to perform properly, the base of the antenna needed to be at least 6 meters higher than the roof, optimally 7-8 meters above. When installing it with less than 6 meters mast, the reception was less than ideal loosing 2-4 S signal units. So your results are in line with what I would have expected. On the other hand on my roof in Helsinki I could only go with a wire antenna and I purchased an HyEndFed based on your recommendation, and it is a spectacular antenna. There is one antenna that I have used with outstanding results in Florida, mounted directly in ground: the Gap Titan DX. That thing was mounted in the ground and it would almost perform as three element tribander on a tower! However with all those trees you have back there, I would go with a long wire hanging from the top of a tree.
HI Tracey, thankyou for your video, I have just put one of these antennas up in the air and I also discovered the horrible VSWR particularly on 6m. It was only tonite ( 25 June 2023) that I discovered as you had that I hadnt put that support pipe up high as stated in the assembly notes. So this coming weekend I will have to lower the antenna and lift that short tube up to the at least 12cm (4.7") as the instructions stated that I totally overlooked. My antenna will be substantially higher than yours being on top of a 6 metre tube and no major surrounding terrain hassles that you have. ohhhh I noticed one other thing with your construction that I hope you solved after doing the black paint job on it .... your drain hole in the 10m radial phasing section is out to the side instead of facing down so it can drain water :) :) thankyou for your video and best regards, Dave, VK2TDN
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir no prob's :) Tomorro ( my Saturday), I will be raising that shorter tube/feedpoint and hopefully that will solve my 6m band crap SWR as well .... cheers, Dave
I’ve read a similar result on eham’s review. I’ve shied away from that model since. Using an endfed half wave 40-10 and a vertical wire dipole for 6 for now. But I love 10 and especially 6 meters so I hope to upgrade when I get to someplace permanent. Things are stealthy in this rental.
I am glad I found this video. Currently I am trying to decide whether to buy the Diamond CP-610 or the CP-5HS. While the 610 has good gain per specification, the 5HS is not stated. The advantage of the 5HS is many more bands. Like you, I have experienced great luck with other Diamond antennas for 2 Meter and 440 operation. My installations are a bit more optimal in that my VHF antennas are on a 125 foot Rohn tower and I plan to put my 10 Meter/6 Meter or possible all band HF Vertical on another tower that is 50 feet tall. If the CP-610 performs much better on 6 and 10 than the 5HS, I will just buy this now and later put another HF vertical on another tower that is currently under repair which is 70 feet tall. I have a horizontal dipole 300 feet long fed with 6" ladder line for 160 through 40 meters but this does not seem to work at all on 10.
Love your videos. How about repeating the experiment using the Diamond antenna mounted on the Spiderbeam 12m mast for additional height? I am thinking that you could get another 10" for a total of 20" AGL.
Hi, I'm not surprised re your findings. I'm a big fan of HyEnd end feds and also build my own to handle higher power. End feds are amazing antennas and would be hard to beat in general. I'm curious how the Diamond stack up against the ZeroFive you deployed a while ago.
I'm going to agree with most of the comments so far that vertical antenna's mounted close to the ground don't work that well close to buildings, probably be a lot better just above the roof line, I think rule of thumb that ground mounted antennas start to perform better when there about at least three quarter waves away from buildings. That could be a big issue for the lower bands.
The only comments I have is polarization matters and antenna height matters. I suspect if the antenna was mounted on the roof of your house (if possible) there would have been different results. I have dealt with this problem since getting my general license a few years ago. The best solution I've found is a ground mounted Hustler 6btv. Ten meters is on fire, even in a similar land scenario as you. I was in a "pit" and my back yard was sunken and surrounded by houses on all sides. I tried several different antenna set ups, but the only thing I could actually make dx contacts with was my Hustler. I have Alpha Antenna EZ Military (great, versatile antenna) that I had on my vehicle, then mounted in my back yard with a 13 foot whip, and finally moved to the roof to reach out about 1000 miles. It finally quit working with the unun died. I'm in new location on a plateau, and all my antennas work excellent at 25 and 30 feet above ground level. The bands are open and I'm reaching out with the Hustler making DX contacts. Thanks for letting me put my two cents in.
Good Morning Tracy. what I can say about vertical Groundplane antennasi n general is they perofrming shitty in low Hieghts and surrounded from Trees higher than the Antenna itself is installed. Back in my very old QTH I played around with 5-6 different CB Radio / 10m Base Antennas. 1/2, 5/8 and 7/8 Wave to find out which one performs best. But before I had the Chance to even get this far I had the same Issues to get the SWR down to its best lowest possible. And this was not easy to do and pushed me to the Limits of Patience. One whole Saturday I sacrificed to get the SWR Tuning Job done. Oh Lord.... Now I am not sure if I shall give it a shot buying the CP-610. Happy monday and good luck. 73 de YFUG from southwest Germany 💯👍🙋♂
The Palomar Enginering minichoker is a similar box to the LDG 1:1, and suffers from the same problem for mounting. I'm surprised the Hyendfed is felt to be a bit lacklustre on 10m (I just got one, but won't use until summer), because my Parendfedz quadband on 10m has gotten me some great DX in the last year as cdx improved.
The only reason the HyEndFed is not performing well is that it has been set up in a non-linear fashion, with lots of angles and elevation changes. It works well on 80 and 80 but suffers on the higher bands.
Hi Tracy, Interesting results but I am not surprised. I have the same antenna which has worked will on 6-meters when the band is open, but got the same results as you when trying it on 10-meters. I too also live on a city lot here in Lowell, Ma. which does have challenges. I have change to a Sirio 2016 Ground Plane Vertical which is sold as 10/11 meter but has worked very well out of band from 20-meters to 6-meters using the internal tuner on my Yaesu FTDX3000. I also have a Random Wire Horizontal that I use on the lower bands from 80-17 meters. I have compared the two and found the Sirio 2016 works about 30-40% better on both the receive and transmit than my Random wire. I have no trees so my Vertical is about 17' off the ground at the base and my Random Wire is at 20' out the the open. Check out the Sirio 2016, maybe to keep an eye to purchase in your area. Keep-up the videos! 73, Erving (N1ECC)
well im glad i stumbled into this video..i was looking at the the diamond cp610 But after seeing your results i half to Pass..I am Still a Neewb so i still got a lot to learn But I am thinking about a a endfed..But i also really want 6m so i still dono ha ha ha !
Welcome to the hobby! Get an endfed that also covers 6. It won't work as well as a dedicated 6m antenna but it's a start. My buddy Tim N9SAB (check out his ebay store) could probably put one together for you.
i got mine new when you did the first video on the CP-610, did not even make it 2 years. SWR when i installed it 1.5 from end to end on 10m voise. 6 was 1.5 on the SSB end. now is real high on 10 over 4:1 peeking to 5:1 6 wont even tune any more. when it did work it was a great antenna smocked my A99 on 10. unfortunately this antenna at $250 was the nail in my coffin and i sold off most of my radio gear. all the antenns i home made still work after years.. any time i buy an antenna they never work good or last more then a few years.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir not yet I have not had the time to go up and get the antenna down from the tower. When i do ill let you know I even replased the coax last year in the summer. and all the complants you have with it are legit all so keep an eye on the sheet metal screws holding the parts togatehr they pulled out or loosened up in the aluminum. when i had it down for coax change i engine up getting some 2mm stanless steal nyloc nut and bolts.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir i got it down at first glance the center matching section was loose they only have 1 rivet holding the base of the matching section and it has a lot of play. I added 3 more and now its stiff agen I just hope all the moving did not brake any thing inside. i would have tried to disacenble it but i think i would end up making it worse.
Think about the amount of metal in the air and radiation patterns. With that long wire you may have had gain in one of its lobes. The vertical has little or no gain and performance suffers at high angles of incident incoming signals. So IMHO...about what one should expect.
I honestly think you have problems with the antenna. We mess around with basically unity gain ham made verticals that are vastly better than using our long wire antennas for 6 and 10 meters. They are mounted low (below 15 feet), are blocked by buildings, and trees. The only store bought vertical I got new was a Comet GP-9. It had cold solder joints that I flowed more solder into and then it worked properly. I bet that is the issue with that antenna. I just build all my antennas after that. Then if they don't work, it's my fault! 73
Verticals that utilize inductive loading or other method and are shortened at less than their theoretical 1/4 will suffer in performance. Of course, you know this. I remember how well that 15m vertical you deployed on top of a car worked....like gangbusters. But you had a clear line of sight all around for a significant distance on the snow pack. So maybe this is an apples/oranges thing. Using a vertical in a depression or net lower than the average terrain will not lead to a fulfilling ham experience :).
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From experience with similar 1/4 and 5/8w verticals, I’d say those issues come down to the install environment - you’re basically firing most of the RF into surrounding vegetation and infrastructure. I suspect that antenna on a rooftop or middle of a field with unobstructed takeoff to the horizon would perform differently. Also, an 80-10 EFHW on 10m is going to have lobes and nulls, making real world A/B type testing quite difficult to do objectively unless you pick the QSO’s by bearing from you…..just my 2c from using Hustlers, GAP’s and mono band verticals in a compromised home environment and then given up and put a yagi on the roof for 10m!
Yes I agree your thoughts aswell.
I'm glad I found this video and the comments. I'm looking for antenna options and was excited to find this antenna but after reading the comments, I'll keep looking. I don't have trees in the way but I also have limited options for end or center fed wires because of the lack of trees.
I don't have any experience with this antenna, but I always enjoy the videos and live streams. 73
Thank you! 73 from VE3TWM.
I have a cp610 @20' above the terrain and an 80-10 EFHW (inverted L). On DX there isn't much difference between the two @10m SSB. I have better RX/TX on 10m Local (30-40 mi) contacts with the CP610. The antenna has performed well on 6m for me when there has been openings. I think height above terrain is most likely your issue with this antenna. My understanding is they do better at 30'-40' above the terrain. Thanks for the video! It's nice to compare notes!
Totally agree with you
Dejavu! During my younger years I have installed many CB antennas on the roofs of Rome. The most common was the "Mantova 1" produced by the italian Sigma Antenne. A very robust 5/8 with 4 loaded radials. In order for the antenna to perform properly, the base of the antenna needed to be at least 6 meters higher than the roof, optimally 7-8 meters above.
When installing it with less than 6 meters mast, the reception was less than ideal loosing 2-4 S signal units. So your results are in line with what I would have expected.
On the other hand on my roof in Helsinki I could only go with a wire antenna and I purchased an HyEndFed based on your recommendation, and it is a spectacular antenna.
There is one antenna that I have used with outstanding results in Florida, mounted directly in ground: the Gap Titan DX. That thing was mounted in the ground and it would almost perform as three element tribander on a tower! However with all those trees you have back there, I would go with a long wire hanging from the top of a tree.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
HI Tracey, thankyou for your video, I have just put one of these antennas up in the air and I also discovered the horrible VSWR particularly on 6m. It was only tonite ( 25 June 2023) that I discovered as you had that I hadnt put that support pipe up high as stated in the assembly notes. So this coming weekend I will have to lower the antenna and lift that short tube up to the at least 12cm (4.7") as the instructions stated that I totally overlooked. My antenna will be substantially higher than yours being on top of a 6 metre tube and no major surrounding terrain hassles that you have. ohhhh I noticed one other thing with your construction that I hope you solved after doing the black paint job on it .... your drain hole in the 10m radial phasing section is out to the side instead of facing down so it can drain water :) :) thankyou for your video and best regards, Dave, VK2TDN
Good catch on the drain hole, Dave! I did fix orientation of the drain hole on mine after noticing it. Thank you for your comment.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir no prob's :) Tomorro ( my Saturday), I will be raising that shorter tube/feedpoint and hopefully that will solve my 6m band crap SWR as well .... cheers, Dave
Absolutely the best Chanel for portable.cant wait for your next video.
Thank you very much! I've got a few coming.
I’ve read a similar result on eham’s review. I’ve shied away from that model since. Using an endfed half wave 40-10 and a vertical wire dipole for 6 for now. But I love 10 and especially 6 meters so I hope to upgrade when I get to someplace permanent. Things are stealthy in this rental.
Thanks for your thoughts. This antenna is on my wishlist with DXE, among others.
I am glad I found this video. Currently I am trying to decide whether to buy the Diamond CP-610 or the CP-5HS. While the 610 has good gain per specification, the 5HS is not stated. The advantage of the 5HS is many more bands. Like you, I have experienced great luck with other Diamond antennas for 2 Meter and 440 operation. My installations are a bit more optimal in that my VHF antennas are on a 125 foot Rohn tower and I plan to put my 10 Meter/6 Meter or possible all band HF Vertical on another tower that is 50 feet tall. If the CP-610 performs much better on 6 and 10 than the 5HS, I will just buy this now and later put another HF vertical on another tower that is currently under repair which is 70 feet tall. I have a horizontal dipole 300 feet long fed with 6" ladder line for 160 through 40 meters but this does not seem to work at all on 10.
Thank you for sharing your situation and thoughts! Good luck with the CP610.
Love your videos.
How about repeating the experiment using the Diamond antenna mounted on the Spiderbeam 12m mast for additional height?
I am thinking that you could get another 10" for a total of 20" AGL.
Thank you, Douglas! That's an interesting idea, I'm giving it some thought.
Hi, I'm not surprised re your findings. I'm a big fan of HyEnd end feds and also build my own to handle higher power. End feds are amazing antennas and would be hard to beat in general. I'm curious how the Diamond stack up against the ZeroFive you deployed a while ago.
Hi Norbert, I'd take the Zero Five hands down. Never got a chance to try it on 10, but I'll bet it would do just fine.
Working groundwave, I think it would be much better when talking to another vertical antenna station. On skip, horizontal should have less noise.
I'm going to agree with most of the comments so far that vertical antenna's mounted close to the ground don't work that well close to buildings, probably be a lot better just above the roof line, I think rule of thumb that ground mounted antennas start to perform better when there about at least three quarter waves away from buildings. That could be a big issue for the lower bands.
The only comments I have is polarization matters and antenna height matters. I suspect if the antenna was mounted on the roof of your house (if possible) there would have been different results. I have dealt with this problem since getting my general license a few years ago. The best solution I've found is a ground mounted Hustler 6btv. Ten meters is on fire, even in a similar land scenario as you. I was in a "pit" and my back yard was sunken and surrounded by houses on all sides. I tried several different antenna set ups, but the only thing I could actually make dx contacts with was my Hustler. I have Alpha Antenna EZ Military (great, versatile antenna) that I had on my vehicle, then mounted in my back yard with a 13 foot whip, and finally moved to the roof to reach out about 1000 miles. It finally quit working with the unun died. I'm in new location on a plateau, and all my antennas work excellent at 25 and 30 feet above ground level. The bands are open and I'm reaching out with the Hustler making DX contacts. Thanks for letting me put my two cents in.
Interesting, thank you for sharing your experience!
I can imagine the trees attenuated the vertically polarised signal of the Diamond CP610....just my thoughts Tracey .....Ken
Good Morning Tracy. what I can say about vertical Groundplane antennasi n general is they perofrming shitty in low Hieghts and surrounded from Trees higher than the Antenna itself is installed. Back in my very old QTH I played around with 5-6 different CB Radio / 10m Base Antennas. 1/2, 5/8 and 7/8 Wave to find out which one performs best. But before I had the Chance to even get this far I had the same Issues to get the SWR down to its best lowest possible. And this was not easy to do and pushed me to the Limits of Patience. One whole Saturday I sacrificed to get the SWR Tuning Job done. Oh Lord....
Now I am not sure if I shall give it a shot buying the CP-610. Happy monday and good luck. 73 de YFUG from southwest Germany 💯👍🙋♂
Thank you for sharing your experience, UG! 73 from VE3TWM.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir You welcome Elmer Tracy 💯👍
The Palomar Enginering minichoker is a similar box to the LDG 1:1, and suffers from the same problem for mounting. I'm surprised the Hyendfed is felt to be a bit lacklustre on 10m (I just got one, but won't use until summer), because my Parendfedz quadband on 10m has gotten me some great DX in the last year as cdx improved.
The only reason the HyEndFed is not performing well is that it has been set up in a non-linear fashion, with lots of angles and elevation changes. It works well on 80 and 80 but suffers on the higher bands.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir Thx Tracey
Hey Tracy, nicely done. This is great, good for you. You have inspired me to bring my rig camping again this summer after many years. 73 VE3JVK
Hey John, really nice to hear from you. Hope things are well. Thought about you many times over the years. 73 from VE3TWM.
Hi Tracy, Interesting results but I am not surprised. I have the same antenna which has worked will on 6-meters when the band is open, but got the same results as you when trying it on 10-meters.
I too also live on a city lot here in Lowell, Ma. which does have challenges. I have change to a Sirio 2016 Ground Plane Vertical which is sold as 10/11 meter but has worked very well out of band from 20-meters to 6-meters using the internal tuner on my Yaesu FTDX3000. I also have a Random Wire Horizontal that I use on the lower bands from 80-17 meters. I have compared the two and found the Sirio 2016 works about 30-40% better on both the receive and transmit than my Random wire. I have no trees so my Vertical is about 17' off the ground at the base and my Random Wire is at 20' out the the open. Check out the Sirio 2016, maybe to keep an eye to purchase in your area.
Keep-up the videos!
73, Erving (N1ECC)
Hi Erving, thank you for sharing your experience. Very interesting results. 73 from VE3TWM.
Mines up at 35’ in clear open. Antenna is beyond poor in performance
well im glad i stumbled into this video..i was looking at the the diamond cp610 But after seeing your results i half to Pass..I am Still a Neewb so i still got a lot to learn But I am thinking about a a endfed..But i also really want 6m so i still dono ha ha ha !
Welcome to the hobby! Get an endfed that also covers 6. It won't work as well as a dedicated 6m antenna but it's a start. My buddy Tim N9SAB (check out his ebay store) could probably put one together for you.
i got mine new when you did the first video on the CP-610, did not even make it 2 years. SWR when i installed it 1.5 from end to end on 10m voise. 6 was 1.5 on the SSB end.
now is real high on 10 over 4:1 peeking to 5:1 6 wont even tune any more.
when it did work it was a great antenna smocked my A99 on 10. unfortunately this antenna at $250 was the nail in my coffin and i sold off most of my radio gear.
all the antenns i home made still work after years.. any time i buy an antenna they never work good or last more then a few years.
Sorry to hear that. Do you know what caused the CP610 to fail?
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir not yet I have not had the time to go up and get the antenna down from the tower. When i do ill let you know I even replased the coax last year in the summer.
and all the complants you have with it are legit all so keep an eye on the sheet metal screws holding the parts togatehr they pulled out or loosened up in the aluminum. when i had it down for coax change i engine up getting some 2mm stanless steal nyloc nut and bolts.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir i got it down at first glance the center matching section was loose they only have 1 rivet holding the base of the matching section and it has a lot of play. I added 3 more and now its stiff agen I just hope all the moving did not brake any thing inside.
i would have tried to disacenble it but i think i would end up making it worse.
Think about the amount of metal in the air and radiation patterns. With that long wire you may have had gain in one of its lobes. The vertical has little or no gain and performance suffers at high angles of incident incoming signals. So IMHO...about what one should expect.
hi im putting up atram 1498 i live in a mobil home putting it on side of my trailer how far down in the ground should i put that
If you are using a concrete base, put it down 4 feet.
I honestly think you have problems with the antenna. We mess around with basically unity gain ham made verticals that are vastly better than using our long wire antennas for 6 and 10 meters. They are mounted low (below 15 feet), are blocked by buildings, and trees. The only store bought vertical I got new was a Comet GP-9. It had cold solder joints that I flowed more solder into and then it worked properly. I bet that is the issue with that antenna. I just build all my antennas after that. Then if they don't work, it's my fault! 73
Verticals that utilize inductive loading or other method and are shortened at less than their theoretical 1/4 will suffer in performance. Of course, you know this. I remember how well that 15m vertical you deployed on top of a car worked....like gangbusters. But you had a clear line of sight all around for a significant distance on the snow pack. So maybe this is an apples/oranges thing. Using a vertical in a depression or net lower than the average terrain will not lead to a fulfilling ham experience :).
Well said, Philip!
That’s surprising. My vertical a99 outperforms my horizontal ocfd on 10 meters
What height is it installed at? If up high, I understand.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir 18 feet and the ocfd is 35
Diamond CP6 was never that good and every time it rain the the swr centre point changed
Sorry to hear that!