Rob Reacts to... Football Referee Reacts to Rugby Ref Compilation - Pt.2
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2021
- This video features a lot of red and yellow cards by these Rugby referees! Some fantastic TMO work and great communication!
Original Video: • Rugby Referees Compila...
If you would like to support me then 'Buy me a beer' and gain access to extra content: www.buymeacoffee.com/robreacts
To buy Rob Reacts Merch and get access to the extra content: od-art.co.uk/wp/store/rob-reac...
Discord: / discord
Tech I'm using:
Camera - Logitech StreamCam: amzn.to/2NlFrAN...
Microphone - Blue Microphones Logitech Yeti: amzn.to/3liyuwQ
#Rugby #RugbyReferee #Footballrefereereactstorugbyreferee #RugbyUnion #RugbyLeague 
Спорт
The thing with the new laws for contact with the head, is that it’s being picked up on more by referees and is being treated more harshly because of research showing a direct correlation between concussions and early onset dementia in rugby players. I don’t think that the number of head collisions has decreased, if anything the number of red cards has increased
As officials we want to see players being more aware and coaches amend training and tactics. Unfortunately in the meantime I suspect we will see the number of cards increase. Ultimately rugby is contact sport (I know that more than most!) and we want it to remain the sport we love. However we must must must safeguard player safety.
Ngl it’s really nice to see more people appreciate how great rugby is (refereeing-wise at least)
Im trying to get into it. But i have to appreciate the refs as im a football ref!
1:20 Translation : "OK, you two begin the general brawl, so it'll be 2 red. Next, you come to punch 3 times, it's red." And a little after : "No no no, no commentary !"
haha cheers man!
The Warberton Red Card, looks like the commentators saw the referee issued a card, they didn't see the colour of it, and once the sub-titles showed "sent off" they've realized it was red.
15:10 One of my favourite videos was from the 2019 world cup after the Canada vs SA game, where there was a red card offence from a Canadian player. After the the game he went into the south African locker room to personally apologize for the red card offence to the players. It was the most Canadian thing I've ever seen
I bet you couldn't see a footballer doing that!
The hogg card being changed from yellow to red wasn't the TMO I don't think. I'm pretty sure that the ref just saw the replay on the big screen and realised he had initially got it wrong so changed it.
Possibly he saw it on the screen. Either way great job in deciding to change the punishment!
@@RobReacts1 he did see it on the screen, the positives of what you see at home on the big screen
@@RobReacts1 I think the Ref was obstructed by a Scottish player and only saw the late challenge and not the finer details of it.
All the commentators thought it would have to be a retrospictive disciplinary hearing but the ref saw it on the big screen and changed his decision. That's not covered anywhere in the rules except the one (think its either rule and 3a or 5a) which says "The referee is the sole judge of fact on the field of play". Saw nothing but positive comments on the ref in the press the next day for acting to defend the spirit of the game (and there were no complaints from the Scottish Rugby Union).
When you said it f Toshiba was his name it immediately made me think of a French skit where a president of a football team doesn’t know the name of his players and calls them all Toshiba because it’s the name of the sponsor on the shirt 🤣🤣
Haha I genuinely thought the sponsor was Toshiba. It seems rugby shirts have so much advertising on!
@@RobReacts1 It was, international teams almost never have names on backs of the shirts (with the exception of 7s). And it was Japan. At the same time World Cup is the only time when top teams don't have advertising on their shirts.
I think his name was Toshiba though...
@@RobReacts1 The captain also has Toshiba, hasn’t he?
Claude (Bez) Bernard (Tapie) Filoucelli from “les Inconnus”.
And during the half-time he was “discretely” bribing the referee in his room, in order to change the issue of the game. 🤣🤣🤣
It is 30 years old and I never laugh enough when I watch it. They were geniuses.
one of the reasons players accept cards and walk off is that unlike football where bans longer than 3 matches are rare if you disrespect a rugby ref you're normally watching from the stands for months
great deterrents in rugby
The number of shoulder to head incidents had increased in recent years, so World Rugby gave a directive to referees around the time of the World Cup in 2019.
So red cards are likely to go up, then down when its more familiar with players
@@RobReacts1 - I’d hope so. Generally speaking, the game is cleaner than when I played (due to cameras everywhere) - but it’s got a lot more physical, with the players becoming larger, faster, and more physical all the time.
The one where you said you didn’t like how he refereed was rugby league rather than union, there is a slightly different style of refereeing in league and they don’t have as much dialogue with the players
Yea IV noticed when I watch a league game last weekend that the ref stands further away and his position is showing the distance for the defending team.
@@RobReacts1 in union, one assistant referee will often mark the distance for the defending team (and tell the referee if the defenders get off side)
It's a great comment to use. I remember one game where the inside centre kept complaining about every decision that didn't go his teams way. He also couldn't catch a cold let alone a rugby ball. IIRc after about 20 minutes of his mardiness and yet another dropped ball I turned around and just said "Don't you think it'd be better for you if you concentrated on catching the ball rather than trying to referee, especially as you're not very good at that either."
Triple RED, Wow, That was Grenoble vs Brive in the French Top 14 back in 2016. It was at halftime and there was a scrum, Grenoble (Blue) utterly destroyed the Brive (White) scrum and the 1st two cards were the instigators of a mass brawl, hence why they were sent off. The 3rd card was for the Grenoble 12 as he threw about 4 punches into a player being held. The reason you've seen a couple of multiple reds in these compilations is because they're so rare. They really don't happen that often and are usually the result of a mass punchup.
The Sam Warburton incident occured in the RWC 2011 Semi Final. World Rugby had been trying to clamp down on "Tip" Tackles, they issued new guidance on sanctions just before the world cup; essentially dependent on the landing of the player but starting at RC and working back from there, dependent on circumstances. Many of these type of tackles had only recieved YCs during the tournament but WR said this was wrong and in this semi, Warburton tackled Vincent Clerc, lifting his legs past the horizontal (the WR definition of a tip tackle) and causing him to land on his shoulders and neck. Alain Rolland (the referee) didn't hesitate and showed red, much to the disgust of the entire Welsh nation (who're still bitter about it to this day) and shock of the world. It was however the correct sanction and Sam Warburton said so himself later. Incidentally, if you look at my profile picture you'll see it's me AND Alain Rolland when we refereed at the Oktoberfest 7s back in September 2014.
6.30 - Spot on. This follows on from the above. Following the RWC 2011 the guidance on "tip" tackles was further clarified into what's used today. The moment the legs go past the horizontal it becomes a DANGEROUS tackle (Tip was removed from the definition) and the sanction was entirely dependent on the outcome... or landing. Head/Neck/Top of the Shoulders = Red Card. Back or side = Yellow Card. Nearly 10 years and people still whinge about a player recieving a card for this type of dangerous tackle.
Showing of Cards - In rugby we HAVE to show a card if a player is suspended or sent off. It's actually written into law. We never used to use cards but then we didn't have the sin bin it was just a penalty or off.
Shoulder to head - As far as I'm aware there are no stats available for if the RC has been an effective deterrent. WIth regards to dangerous tackles in the air it took a couple of years for players to fully get the message and there HAS been a reduction in incidents of it.
I was hoping this would come up... Ulster v Saracens - Jared Payne's red card for a dangerous tackle in the air. It was this incident which clarified that the defence/mitigation of "but I was watching the ball sir" was no defence and neither was intent or lack of it with the onfield sanction. It was either dangerous or not and any protest was purely a defence in the subsequent disciplinary hearing. You still see it ALL the time on social media when a player gets sent off for this... "bUt He WaS wAtChInG tHe BaLl/He DiDn'T iNtEnD tO kNoCk HiM oUt"... Unlucky...
England - France Women - See above re sanction for that dangerous tackle
Stormers Vs Blues - Who Sir? Me Sir?... With an innocent look on their face that would make a baby look guilty
Thanks for commenting on most of the situations! It's always the shittest player who tries telling you how to do your job isn't it!
Your point on the watching the ball is the same in football. Or I got the ball. It's no real defence!
Good job Rob!!
Rob, great to see a football referee watching rugby compilations and, as a player and a rugby referee, would love to see some videos on football laws in the future!
Just to be aware, as some earlier comments have mentioned, is the year each clip was played and so the severity of the card/penalty is different for the exact infringement.
The Sam Warburton red card (in 2011) was just prior to when the concussion injuries were beginning to be taken seriously and so that is why the pundits were in disbelief with the decision (Warburton on the other hand in a post match press conference said the referee made the correct decision).
I believe that it is harder to referee a football match compared to a rugby match as it is more dynamic and having to be aware of the whole pitch whereas rugby is a bit more “closed system” with rucks and scrums and so football referees should be given more respect in the game.
Thanks Lewis, I massively appreciate it! Im happy to do more football stuff. Problem with the good football refereeing clips is that they are sky sports who straight out ban me putting them on youtube. I do have a extra content section on my discord server but thats for people who either do a one off donation or membership to my Buy Me a Coffee account (allows me to give a little extra for their support). Ie, did a Contraversial VAR Decisions video.
And yes I agree about when the clips are from before laws had changed.
Agreed. The whole fluidity of soccer means certain decisions can only be gone in depth when progress stops due to a foul or offside. I feel that in rugby that while players do have a grasp of the laws they rely heavily on the ref to guide them throughout the match and keep everyone safe, as a result you don’t really have many gobby players and they are quite grateful that the ref is keeping them on the straight and narrow. Hence the acceptance of being carded be it red or yellow and the ingrained respect of match officials. Even the players have a mutual respect for each other and will happily take lumps out of each other and then get drunk with each other in the clubhouse!
Remember one of rugby's primary rules is respect.
Rob, 9:16 in is NZ provincial rugby. Wellington Hurricanes (Yellow/Black) v Otago Highlanders (Blue/Yellow)
Otago and southland*
I love they way that they introduce the cards. The book says red and you give me no other option, but to penalize you.
It is interesting how they say you give me no other option!
7:46 he's apologising to his teammates, rather than the opponents as in the earlier clip of the French player
Edit, I mean 17:46 sorry
Finn Russel apologised to the guy he hit in the Scotland France game
Love the cat mate.
Great vid.
Haha she always wants attention at annoying times 🤣
Good vid keep up the good work
Cheers bud
Yes there has been a noticeable decrease in concussions and head contact in tackles since the changes were brought in at the 2019 RWC, there has also been an increase in the number of yellow cards (10 minutes off) and a dramatic increase in the number of red cards. Red cards used to be incredibly rare and have now become so frequent (due to law changes) that the Australians are experimenting with a red card being 20 minutes off instead of the full match.
I suppose the players are having a time to adjust so lots of red and yellow cards at the moment.
enjoyed this one, thank you; with regards to the apologies, I have seen it happen a few times in football but in rugby it is quite common - even handshakes
Cheers bud! I rarely see it in football!
@@RobReacts1 yes, those few times were many years ago but, sadly, football has changed a lot - that's why I don't pay to go to matches anymore (or watch it much on tv either) I got so infuriated by the players' antics (cheating may be a better word) and, as you are a referee, you have my utmost respect.
The ref that made the call "you off" with the bad outfits were from leauge.
@@clymtc it amazes me these players so blatantly cheat with then being on camera...it amazes me more that diving isn't actually dealt with by the refs.
@@spitsfreeman the refs trying to look like bees.
There's definitely been a marked decrease in the tackle height, and as such head hits or shoulder charges are much more obvious - a lot of the focus now is on ruck entry where you'll see a lot of cards given for people leading into the ruck with a wing arm (arm tucked into the ribs)
As far as tip tackles go, as soon as the player is over the horizontal, it's a card. If they land on their head/neck it's red, back/shoulder it's a yellow.
Yea a lot seems to happen in those rucks that are hard to see on tv. well for me anyway
Throughout this year and maybe last year they've became more strict on dangerous play which is a good thing, from the six nations I think they've had the most red cards dished out in one tournament in a long time with about 5 handed out.
There were certainly a few reds this 6 nations!
There has been a decrease in shoulder to head tackles as where theres still a chance of maybe 1 a match, but most shoulder to head are "with purpose" offences like seen in this video with jumping into the man shoulder first well after the ball was kicked.
Yea I was just wondering if stats wise the incidents have gone down due to the punishment
The Stuart Hog sending off wasn't strictly speaking a TMO decision, the ref watched it on the screen and made the decision to send Hog off himself.
So I realised that after someone else commented. But the fact it's on the screen unlike football is brilliant
The main difference between TMO and VAR for me that is why rugby has implemented it more successfully is that, by and large, TMO is there to complement the referee. The referee will come to a decision and then ask the TMO to back it up or provide evidence to overturn it - or will say "I'm not sure, can you confirm for me?" in cases that are more applicable to rugby than football (for example, grounding of the ball in a mass of bodies). The TMO only comes in in two circumstances:
1) when asked to by the referee
2) when they pick up cases of potential serious foul play not picked up by the referee.
In football, one of the problems with VAR is that all too frequently it comes in from above when the referee has made a decision, in order to say "you might have got that wrong". The pace of the game makes an exact replica of the system difficult, but far too often VAR doesn't so much complement but undermine the referee. There is a TIFO Football video on this which shows how the biggest problem with VAR is its application for rules which are specifically written to be subjective, such as the handball regulations, which have always had - and should continue to have - an element of interpretation by the referee about them.
I know if football had the same system as rugby then you'd just have players appealing to the ref consistently to check VAR if the decision didn't go their way, but that's the product of a separate issue, which is football's unwillingness to punish stars, so therefore allowing the disrespect of the referee to build up unpunished and then trickle down into other levels of the game. Perhaps a TMO-style "VAR only consulted when specifically asked by the referee" system could work if there was a limit on the appeals a team can make. For example, in American football, the coach can challenge a call on the field, but they only get 2 to make per game. Cricket is similar with the review system, which you keep if you're right but you lose if you're wrong. Ice hockey has a system whereby if the coach challenges a decision and is wrong, it's a "bench minor" penalty for timewasting, and they have to play 2 minutes with a man in the sin bin, chosen from those who were on the ice at the time the decision was made.
Fantastic comment! Thank you. It's really tricky because like you said, maybe tmo in football wouldn't work because players will be calling for it all the time. Maybe a clock stop when play goes dead. I really don't know. I just know that the refs including var should stay in contact with eachother
13:39 not in NZ or AUS due to the new red card laws that you can replace the sent off player after 20 minutes
Great video, top cat!
Cheers Steve!
Loving the videos. How about reacting to a video of refs getting attacked?
Yea that's an idea. Thanks man.
Id love to see your reaction to Duncan Mcrae's face/expression after bejng shown a red after he punched O'Gara in the head over 10 times!
Do you have a link buddy! May be a good short to do.
@@RobReacts1 look up the 2001 lions tour Macrae coped a 30 week ban for hitting and nearly blinding O Gara
@@GarethT902 it's on the list to react to tomorrow!
When Mcrae signed for Gloucester, then they got drawn with Munster away in Europe (O'garas team), he was made very well aware to not play that game, or else the whole of Munster would jump him
Red Cards for shoulder to the head is relatively new. It’s always been a law, but the World Rugby has really only started cracking down on it in the last 3-4 years or so, so it’s hard to say if it’s had a definitive impact yet. Way more red cards handed out in that period though, that’s for sure.
10-15 years ago it was tip tackles that were the focus. Introducing yellow/red cards has almost completely stamped it out, save for a couple of accidental ones.
It seems to work, but it takes time for players to adjust.
I suppose its all about the safety of the players. It will take a season or two for players to really stop it
@@RobReacts1 indeed. Changes in laws to change player behavior always takes some time to take root.
What I always find fascinating are the unintended consequences of law changes. My theory is that this specific rule change is going to have a massive impact on player size as it is greatly beneficial to smaller players (like Cheslin Kolbe) and detrimental to the 6”6 monsters trying to tackle him.
I expect a number of smaller, more agile players to gain prominence over the next couple of years.
Hi Rob. The first section of the video you can see the ref talking to a Wallabie player (Australia) and a Puma player (Argentina). In argentinian rugby our first rule is that the refferi is always right, always. That rule has being tought to kids since they five or six years old.
I hear that same thing all the time from the rugby subscribers and viewers!
The trouble with these ref compilation videos is that they only show the big incidents, not the 75 minutes when the ref was just keeping the game flowing. Just as in football, no-one likes a whistle-happy ref. In fact, there can be passages of play in which I just concentrate on what the ref is doing, and let the players get on with it.
It's only recently that the touch judges (as I still like to call them) were allowed to do anything more than flag touchline calls; although the ref could ask their opinion. This goes back to the very old tradition that each side provides one of the touch judges; I think it still happens in the Varsity Match. I remember an interview with Derek Bevan, who reffed the 1991 WC Final, in which he explained how he semi-illegally got around that. For possible tries in the corner, if it's a try, then run behind the posts ready for the conversion; otherwise, hold your ground. If you see foul play which I've missed, stop running the line and stand where you are; and I'll come over and ask you why. (Touch judges of course run end-to-end; there's nothing like the Z-pattern or whatever it's called in football.)
As you probably know, the game of rugby was allegedly invented when William Webb Ellis, a boy at Rugby School, picked up the ball and ran with it. All nonsense, of course: young men had been knocking seven bells out of each other in football-type games for centuries. What is less well known is what happened after he had touched down the ball (which was round) for the first-ever try. He picked it up, trotted over to the master who was refereeing the game, and said, "Please Sir, what do I do with this now?" And that's why the rugby ball is the shape it is.
When I played rugby at school, back in the late 80's, early 90's it was essentially a brawl that someone had brought a rugby ball to.
We used to play a game called, Murder Ball at lunchtime. One tennis ball 60 boys and no rules. Ahhh, the good old days.
haha murder ball is wheelchair rugby!
Teacher: There is a massive fight going on...oh, they have a ball. It's a game. Carry on.
We called it mugby😂😂
@@saberint Year 4 have challenged the Sixth form and we need as many people as possible.
Great!! Hang on I'm in year 4.
@@RobReacts1 it is now but back when I was young you pick either a hoop ,goal or line for scoring and 2 teams that was the whole rule list best tactic was pick up a small player with the ball and let him kick anyone in front of you
Rugby is getting increasingly more strict on any contact to the head due to both modern and past occasions of concussions and other issues that occur later in life and with that the reffing is becoming stricter. Especially this year.
Although I feel sorry for the accidentals, I understand why they are enforcing it
@@RobReacts1 While half of these situations are accidental, games are refereed in a way that discourage risky situations. The same tackle may easily result in a player hitting the ground with either his back or neck first, yet possibility of a red card means some tackles are not worth commiting. And that's exactly the point.
Yea I do get it. ☺️
@@RobReacts1 Everyone feels for those moments, I think, when they occur but the safety of the game is making more and more steps to ensure it.
@@RobReacts1 with regards to the accidentals, I believe the way the iRB see it is if we train players the whole way through that you must attempt to bind, and must go as low as possible, it will reduce the number of injuries. And their way of 'reiterating' the seriousness of player safety is by punishing them.
The good thing asbyouve pointed out in other occasions, is the ability for the referee to apply mitigating and aggravating factors. For instance a high tackle would start at yellow, but because the forearm made direct contact with the face it would raise to red. But had another player tackled the 'victim' the ref could determine that a mitigating factor, and lower it to a yellow. And the ref will discuss this with the player.
Toshiba is, or was the back of kit sponsor for Team Japan, you can see the Brave Blossoms logo on the other guy's kit.
The ref you didn’t like 7:10 was an RL ref....😱
I didnt say i didnt like him...just that his kit is ugly
The Warburton red at 2:34 is because he took the player "over the horizontal" when he tackled. Essentially meaning he brought the player's legs up rather than just taking him down. He then drove him into the ground at that angle which is why it was definitely a red. There's a massive focus these days on preventing head injuries in rugby so breaking rules like this that are designed to protect the head is a quick ticket to a red.
I also think TMO is so much better than VAR, but it wasn't when it first came out. It's been around a lot longer and has been through a lot of changes and refinement in that time. Hopefully, VAR will improve and will eventually become a worthwhile tool. Just needs the many kinks ironing out.
kinks...there are a lot of kinks! :D
@@RobReacts1 have you seen the video of the pitch invader Springboks Vs All Blacks? Won't spoil it, but definitely worth a watch to see how players feel about rugby refs
@@idunno720 i havnt no. have you got a link
If you haven't watched Paul O'Connell vs Jamie Cudmore Rugby Fight I'd love to see what you make of it.
And the fists come flying!!
Single red cards are fairly rare, double reds are once in a blue moon in 1st class rugby.
2 differences I can see between referees in rugby and football :
1/ Rugby referees are protected against players' misbehavior. I can remember years ago in the french championship, a player pushed a ref after a decision, not specially violently, that player got a 2 year suspension.
2/ Football referees are very often asked to judge the intention behind a bad move which opens the door to commenting their decisions, arguing. In rugby, 99% of time, they don't have to judge the intention. If the rule says it's a bad move then it's a bad move, whatever the intention.
Fairly common in france to hand the same punishment out to both players for a fight even if someone came off worse, generally see more double cards from french games than anywhere else
Like I say in the videos, the retaliation is just as bad as the person who started it
Can you imagine being known as "that guy" who got a red card for hair pulling in a game? Seriously the man is probably still getting joked about that. At his retirement party and/or 80th birthday someone is going to bring up that time he got sent off for hair pulling. Lol
For the triple red cards it was due to a general brawl in TOP14. He punished the two first who started it and the one that restarted it.
We have similar. The two that started it then the one thats run 50 yards to join in the fun :D
in Rugby the linesman have full referee powers so if they see something that the ref does not their word has the same power as the ref
BT coverage had refs with body cameras when they first started PL content.
There is no reason not to IMO!
5:58 the medic was on the pitch before he hit the deck.
Since the laws changed that direct contact with the head is a Red offence. There has been a marked change in high tackles.
Yea I hear the punishments are getting more strict.
On the triple red it remind me sometime when ref whant to go for yellow or just penalty but due to complain it turn to red or yelow becaus refto have great apreciationof rules.
13:20 Very often in Union, if one person gets sent for a shoulder to the head, the players 90% of the time will start watching their tackles and calming down a little. The key here is that the first was a shoulder to the head, the second was a "shoulder with no attempt to bind." What this probably means is that the tackle more than likely started in the chest, a legal tackle area, but because he made no attempt to wrap his arms around the opponent to continue with a safe tackle, his shoulder more than likely slid up and clocked the opponent in the head from below, so a jaw hit. Binding (aka wrapping) is when you tackle, but you bind your arms around the opponent so you can control them to the ground safely, and prevent the shoulder slipping up. If he had attempted to bind, it would have more likely been a yellow, but no attempt to bind can be read as "malicious intent," even if there was no real intent to injure.
World Rugby recently made the rules around head collisions stricter. If you make contact with the head, it's a card. Whether it's red or yellow depends on the incident (accidental, did the player drop his/her body before getting hit, etc)
Yea iv seen lots of accidental collisions since watching rugby a few weeks back and I feel sorry for them. But people are right. Laws are the laws.
As far as I believe, the players, coaches and refs all agreed to the stricter laws in response to the news of head injuries having worse long term effects that 1st thought. Player safety is 1st and foremost
You asked whether sendings off due to "shoulder on head" collisions have reduced in number since referees have been told to be stricter on it, in the light of forthcoming court cases, and the consequent focus on player safety.
An article a couple of weeks ago in a rugby news paper suggested that numbers of offences have increased. Things that might have just incurred a " telling off" or a yellow card, are now attracting more red cards. The article suggested that players will eventually learn, or be coached, to tackle more carefully. Or law makers will bring in new laws about clearing players out of the way when they are competing to grab the ball once a player has been tackled. But at the moment, players are still being coached by their team staff to pile in and just hope for the best.......
Maybe the deterent affect hasnt started yet until players have been punished for a while.
At grass roots the camera is less common and requires everyones agreement. However at the top level it was asked for by broadcasters and now used a lot.
www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/guidelines/17 -- head contact guidlines. It is reducing the instance of head injury but it has caused some other side effects. Concussion and player safety is something that has become our no 1 focus
You'll notice that refs say 'we have to give a card' or the likes because the laws are quite strict as to what constitutes a red, yellow or penalty. I suggest one video you go onto the World Rugby website and have a look through the laws of the game. They have pictures and videos alongside the explanations.
Also when the players say sorry its not always to the opposition that they may have hurt but rather to their team who they've made a man short and a penalty against them.
The amount of times IV had to say, I have no choice to give the card. But I think in football refs have more leeway and interpretation of the law.
A lot of rugby refereeing works on this 'downgrade' system. They start with the largest possible penalty for an action and then identify any and all mitigating factors to 'downgrade' from a red card to a yellow card to a penalty.
In the case of dangerous tackles (i.e. France women player yellow for dangerous tackle on England player) it refers to a tackle that puts the opposition player at more risk than is accepted as being a part of contact sports. So a tackle above the shoulder-line (I think it's now the nipple line) is a high-tackle and penalty, if it makes direct contact to the neck and/or head it's a red/yellow. again depending on severity.
Another case is lifting a player beyond the horizontal. This again is dangerous because it makes the neck/head likely to be the first point of contact with the ground. In addition it's likely to hinder or prevent altogether a player's attempts to brace against the fall with there arms or legs. This is often referred to as a "tip-tackle".
Lastly there's dropping a player. It is possible and legal to pick a player up off the ground in a tackle (or even as George North famously did for the lions against Australia, pick a defender up and carry them along with the ball) However it is then the player's responsibility to put the player down in a safe and controlled manner.
So with the decision at around 15:00, The tackler lifts the player beyond the horizontal and then fails to put them down in a controlled manner. Tips and drops. That's the offence, then the referee's work through that downgrade system mentally. Start with Red - player does not land on their head or neck so downgrade to yellow - player does land on their back and there are no mitigating circumstances (which might be both trying to contest an aerial ball or a slip or something) - yellow it is.
It's interesting how the laws are getting stricter I'm hearing. IE the safety ones. Obviously as a deterrent and to keep players safe.
Rob, the one wth 3 red cards who didnt show the card, with the bad kit is Rugby League, they have a history for bad kit. They also tend not to get the cards out. As a Union ref we would always get the card out after the explanation.
Also double reds are unusual in rugby but we get a lot more than football as its often a 1 on 1 situation
oh this rugby league game! haha
In the last year the referees have really stepped up the red cards for head hits. I'm not sure that the players have started adapting to it yet to prevent it.
Well it's something I noticed in the 6 Nations. Safety first I suppose. Rugby players seem more intelligent than my football counterparts so I'm sure it won't take long
In rugby its not just the team and supporters a player lets down its also themselves on getting carded. it can also affect them ever playing again for said team and if an international it could be his/her last cap.
I'm unsure of the statistics regarding instances of shoulder to head incidents, but there is a deep concern regarding the long terms effects of repeated head blows. The blows have become more intense with players becoming bigger over the past 30 years. Law changes in recent years have seen protection for players in the air, for those lifted in a tackle, any form of contact to the head with force, and most recently tackling dropping from below the shoulder to below the nipple line.
It's just interesting to see if the punishments really are a deterrent.
@@RobReacts1 I don't think that many players go out with the intent to commit the offence, it is about encouraging players to remain focused on their accuracy.
Brought up watching football, but realised footballers are just big Jessie's who go down when their lipstick gets smudged or a ladder appears in their tights. Rugby players must view them with amusement and a slightly overwhelming sense of wanting to kick them over the posts. How can you put up with being on the same pitch as these people? By the way, the British and Irish Lions Series is coming up. More viewing for your pleasure.
Subbed
Haha I love the sport but the players are idiots for sure(generalising). I have the speach in the dressing room reaction coming up before the British and Irish lions.
10:35 I think the guy in black complained about the card, while 17 white was laughing as the player ran to the Sin Bin, both red card offences, one for talking back and undermining the ref. the other for Unsportsmanlike behavior.
To be honest, if the rules of Association Football were adhered to by referees at any level you would see multiple red cards in every match.
The body camera on the ref was brought in at the request of television as it gives good views rather than for the protection of referees. They are VERY strict at the minute on head high tackles as concussion is a major problem, the idea is if you really clamp down on it people stop doing it. Taking players out in the air, spear tackles, where you lift a players legs in the air and drive them into the ground and even punching have all pretty much been eliminated by getting very strict on them.
Safety first. I would like IFAB to allow bodycams for football even just for safety of refs
I think something you notice in these videos is the referee's ability to say "I made the wrong decision in the moment, and upon further reflection this is the correct decision" (either through replays, TMO, or just some time to think).
I think thats a bit of a problem in football, at least in the premier league and championship games that I watch, where referees are often very reluctant to admit that their initial on-field decision was wrong.
Quite possibly. I think in football if a ref is wrong then they will be punished by players, managers and pundits.
@@RobReacts1 Yeah very true, the perception of refs in the two sports is very different, and that doesnt help.
I do think I have seen some appauling referreeing in the prem from time to time, but I also think a lot of the time we ASSUME it's bad reffing, when we actually don't understand whats gone on. I think having the refs mic'd up, so you can understand the dialogue that has gone on, would go a long way to changing that perspective, from a fans/media point of view.
@@control2XS Yea i agree there has been bad reffing, but the good stuff never gets picked up or a pundit says something like "the ref JUST ABOUT got that right". But yea mic the refs up!
@@RobReacts1 Yeah for sure.
I can 100% understand the criticism (as a Leeds fan for instance, that Bamford offside decision springs to mind...), but more often than not the mistake is in the rule itself, not in how it's being applied.
And yeah agreed, I've only ever seen one positive compilation of refereeing on youtube, where as rugby has dozens. I think that's more of a reflection on how people view football referees at the highest level, rather than the referees themselves.
As to wether we see less hits to the head due to red cards, I think it's still a little too early to tell, but it will happen.
The Warburton red card was from the 2011 World Cup, at the time it was relatively a new thing to put so much emphasis on the tip tackle, you now almost never see tip tackles in the game
Yes, I agree, they have almost disappeared. Which is a good thing, everybody remember the All Blacks spear tackling O'Driscoll, seriously injuring his shoulder and nearly ending his career. One of the worst act in All Black's history, so deliberate it was. He was not even in the action any more, and Tana Umaga and Keven Mealamu both deliberately lifted him, turned him upside down and crashed him in the ground. At the time, it was not in the laws, so neither of them got sanction. It was after that event that spear tackling was banned in Rugby Union (it was already forbidden in Rugby League at the time). And they have made this rule stricter and stricter by the year. Watching old footages from pre-2005, it's astounding to see them back and hard to understand why this was not banned earlier.
@@VdFCatLord I agree I thought it was just about the most disgraceful thing I had seen and it it just looked very 'calculated'.
I have a question Rob. In rugby they can stop play and have the time turned off for TMO. In football they can't. What happens if the linesman misses an off side, play goes on and results in a bad challenge and a red card. If VAR then spots the Off side and play is called back for that, does the red card still stand?
Tricky one. Techniqually its the first incident. So the offside. But if its violent conduct then im sure it would also be a red card.
@@RobReacts1 I would have thought it would stand as well, it seems like a scenario that could easily happen (I've seen players make reckless tackles because the ref missed something). I've also seen in Rugby a Scotland player getting sent off about ten minutes after the incident because a reply was shown on the big screen.
Any contact to head or neck is an instant red. This has lead to a big change in tackle technique that has decreased the number of concussions.
Yes this is what I was wondering if the stats show this.
@@RobReacts1 Just watch like 5 mins of rugby from the 70s - every other tackle is a clothesline around the neck
The yellow stripy refs are rugby league. It looks like the cards may have been new. Rugby copied from soccer, then league followed, from memory. So the ref probably forgot about these newfangled cards.
Haha
With the yellow changed to red, i believe it was just because he saw the decision was wrong on the big screen.
Now, in football/soccer, as referees we can't act on a replay screen unless it is via VAR which we never use in our matches for obvious reasons. What do you think of a referee in football/soccer of being able to look at the big screen (not just small VAR screen, see they have the wrong decision and change it based on that? For instance if it would have been simulation of a foul, or a reckless challenge that was wrongfully deemed as careless?
At the end of the day as a referee we are trying to get the correct decision. If we have proof we got it wrong then we should be allowed to change.
Hi Rob, really enjoyed your selection on our great sport, as a ref of 20+ years i would welcome you commenting on your own sport ref & player
compilations v's rugby
So I would love to but its very hard to find any decent Football referee videos on youtube to react to. I did a VAR one but was Sky sports so it got banned on RUclips so I put it on my Extra content channel on my Discord. If you can find any videos i would be happy to react.
@@RobReacts1 Thanks for the reply Rob, had no idea YT was short of football ref action, keep up the good work mate
@@johngouldson7500 Like I said if you can find me some then amazing. It seems its easier to get rugby ref stuff! Cheers man
The French lady was saying sorry to her teammates for letting them down by her indiscretion. The card was for lifting the leg beyond the horizontal not the force of the tackle.
Is there a particular reason the football authorities decided to go with VAR as opposed to implementing a TMO system which is already tried and tested in rugby
I have literally no idea. But IV seen TMO is far superior
Rob, have you commented on moving the penalty 10 metres? That's a great thing in Rugby (union at least).
I have mentioned it in comments when people have said previously. But in my opinion im not sure how useful it will be in football as rugby is a game of territory wereas in football players are happy to pass the ball back. Im not sure if a free kick 10 yards closer is a huge help...Unless its going from say 30yrs to 20yrs in the centre.
It's already been done in football and then stopped. I don't know why.
@@RobReacts1 It would soon stop the shenanigans if it turned a free kick into a penalty!
@@samday9328 I think that would be the only real useful time!
Warburton's red was for bringing the players legs above his head. Dumping players like that is seen as dangerous for neck injury's
Yea I get that!
I think the main reason for the new law on contact with the head is because of the lawsuits
Another video maybe you could watch is old school rucking? U will be shocked how we used to play only 10 15 years ago
Do you have a decent video link?
Today, in games that are on TV, every decision involving a player being sent off in Rugby, or being disqualified in American Football is reviewed.
I think in football it's a case of if the club wants to dispute it
@@RobReacts1 If you meant in american football, there are calls that the review is initiated automatically, and not by a team's challange. One of the penalties in american football is called "Targeting" is when a player, either uses the crown of the helmet to hit opposing player, or hitting a player in the head or neck area when the player being hit is in a situation that he cannot defend himself. This penalty requires a mandatory ejection, and in games that are televise, there is an automatic review of the incident.
At 6:45, you say accidental. Not sure I can agree - the way he stands up so vertically, rather than driving towards the opposition goal line with just a little upwards lifting, looks to me like he's gone for a dump tackle, which is legal but in this situation clearly a stupid decision because there are so many other players entering the contact area too.
I suppose the only person knows of the intent is the player :)
The bodycams are for the benefit of the broadcaster and the folk watching at home, not the refs. But I hear what you are saying. Rugby refs at lower levels could do with the safety of a body cam & recorder.
For football definitely we should be allowed them for safety. But IFAB won't allow it!
Yes there is a lot less at senior level
Some context for the first triple red : ruclips.net/video/qZLfZQMXhH0/видео.html - note that the referee says at 1:39 "...there is no discussion , we have the video..."
Hard to tell if the increase of red cards have had a statistical change in the offense happening because its been much more strictly enforced in the last year, we should know a better understanding next year. We could possibly see alot of red cards this year
yea i suppose you have to give it time to get the stats first. bare in mind iv been watching rugby about 4 weeks now, already been seeing plenty of reds for shoulder to head.
@@RobReacts1 yeah there never used to be that many red cards being handed out for those offences, more yellows, but with the crack down on player concussions and player safety they have to be using a more strict measure of punishment for the player putting themselves and someone else in harms way, could be the reason we saw more red cards this year than any other in the 6 nations, hopefully we can see less in the future :)
Agreed bout cards but rugby never used to use cards and was by hand signals
Techniqually, you dont have to show a card in football, but its the done thing for communication to players, fans etc.
It should be a red for a spear tackle
The triple reds in France was IIRC following a real bitter battle between the sides and the French league is unbelievably aggressive at times.
The Sam Warburton tip tackle was (this is hard to say as a Welsh fan) the right decision - the laws were quite new at that point but professional players should know them.
You say about professional players knowing the laws. I really think in all sports players and managers either go on a coaching course of have someone come in to the club to teach them. (im sure there must be seminars at the top clubs)
@@RobReacts1 difficult at community club level - as it’s all volunteers. The RFU (England’s governing body) the WRU (Welsh) SRU (Scotland) and IRFU (Ireland) all host courses which are £10-£20 each... but many clubs don’t have the funds to pay for their coaches to go on them and of course there are plenty of coaches who can’t afford to go them.
Danger with a lot of these compilations is that they’re from different years when laws have changed and evolved so difficult to see consistency.
@@davidgriffith8292 I get your point. And on the voluntary basis of grass roots rugby refs. Its bloody crazy. I know you ref for the love of the game but cmon!
Just remember folks in our union game we have laws and not rules, us refs get a twitchy eye when we hear non-rugby people get it wrong
Haha when people say rules and as a ref you know your being a bell end but you always follow with "you mean the laws" haha. I do it
@@RobReacts1 it's only been in the last few seasons that there has been significant changes to the tackle rules, and the biggest most marked changes have really happened just this season. The numbers will be there,. But what was legal last yr, isn't legal this year, so you might find more penalties given this year,but with a massive decrease in dangerous tackle count
no Rugby Union, highlanders and hurricanes both New Zealand Super rugby teams
As a former county level ref in rugby, game management was taught and discussed at every ref training session weekly. At the end of every game we gave each captain a comment card for them to complete about us and post in to the association. At county level and above each touch judge had to be the minimum level for that game as a referee unless in training for that level where there would be a trainer watching you. We had a minimum of 3 game assessments per season, 2 notified and one no notice. You could normally spot the assessor as during the match they would have their back to the pitch listening to your control and whistles for about 10 mins.
We did trial cameras for lower levels, but the school boy match I had I was not allowed to use the camera due to a high court order preventing a child being filmed or photographed.
Like your comments and is interesting to hear a football ref views.
Maybe we can tempt you from the dark side? 🤔
17:15 he looks like Charles bronson
First time you didn't like the refereeing and it's rugby league, maybe not a coincidence.
Double red cards are rare, not super rare, about the same frequency as fights which makes sense
Haha that's funny. However, I did enjoy watching Castleford Vs Warrington lasts weekend. Watching Leeds Vs Castleford today.
Rugby League ref kits are the ones you seem to dislike
Were they look like BEES!
Rob have you had a look at the greatest British rugby league tries of all time??
the only greatest tries video is the 32 greatest rugby tries video, but i dont think it was specific to either
Your comment that TMO is better than VAR. part of the reason is that TMOs have been on the go for nearly 20 years, someone correct me if wrong. In the early days had quite a bit of learning how to use it best. Hopefully football will learn with VAR. I managed to be able to listen into the audio between the TMO and the infield team constant flow of information during lulls in the play.
I think the point would be...Rugby have done all the hard work with TMO...why would football not just take TMO which is already developed?!
@@RobReacts1 you would have thought so but they seem to be reinventing the wheel!
At 5 minutes in the NZ player whose hair was pulled was playing for the Maori All Blacks.
I totally agree regarding the league referee shouting "off" from a distance, it's disrespectful, you approach, explain your decision, and show the card.
I do get a little frustrated with some commentators, when calling the match they regularly read a situation as it would have been when they played rather than applying the current rules, particularly around player safety, often criticising the referee, this does not help spectators come to terms with safety protocols. Is that the same in football?
Yea your right. The one thing I didn't think was right!
And bare in mind us refs have no idea what is a dangerous high foot sending off (think Nani in champions League). But pundits have next to no idea.
@@RobReacts1 I'm not familiar with that incident. I do sometimes wonder about the ramblings of pundits, especially when they often have years of playing the game.
The trouble with football is the players have too much power and the FA is week at backing up referees. There’s lots of criticism by journalists and pundits towards VAR in football. Cheats don’t like being caught on camera. I even heard an ex Liverpool player protest that a player was penalised when he was ‘only just offside’. It’s pretty binary unless you are a footballer. If the players stopped trying to get each other sent off they might sort out the nonsense in the English football premiership.
It all relys on the governing bodies allowing the referees to deal with the bad behaviour. I did a video a while back about some of the difficulties we have as referees.
I am not a particular a fan of either Sport Football or Rugby but Rugby seems more open and agreeing with the ref as opposed to Football where they seem to be more at a conflict with the math officials
Refs in rugby command respect, and maintain authority on the field. Can't think of a single ref in English football I can say that about. Probably the last English ref you could say that about was David Elleray...and the best international ref was of course Pierluigi Collina... It all comes down to whether the players respect the ref and the rules
Your question as to whether stricter rules regarding contact has brought down player injuries - Don't know if there's data publicly available, but you might find this informative. Interview with 2003 world cup winner Steve Thompson. The game certainly looks a lot safer than it was even as recently as 18 years ago.
ruclips.net/video/CsdPIU6vXns/видео.html
cheers matt. Il give it a watch!
I think it's still a bit early to judge as it's only relatively recently that refs have been clamping down on these incidents. I think, given time, it will get into the player's heads that it's something that needs to considered when tackling an opponent. But in the meantime, I enjoy your comments.
@@richardsargent4595 I'm sure it won't take long to see the stats.
You mentioned if shoulder to head tackles are less common. It is hard to research as number of cameras is higher etc. Follow Ross Tucker, a sports scientist, on twitter on @scienceofsport and message him. He will respond with what he has discovered.
I will do that!
the french referee at 10min was arguing with the players about their actions on the pitch he said: "it's a rugby pitch we're here to play the game not to fight therefore it will be red card for both of you ! Off you go". Black player : "You're having a laugh a ref ? I didn't do anything wrong ! You're surely joking, It's a disgrace". Ref: No, get off.
Oh how wonderful youtube is to have french speakers. Cheers pal! :)
@@RobReacts1 no worries rob anytime