@@usefulaircraft with those props it’ll look like a foam board V-22 Osprey. Oh, that’s an idea. The Osprey’s got a lot of similar looks to some of your builds/designs. 😉
@@Mike-mm6jp they're fun to play with. Remarkably efficient, and interesting to learn how to best use them. I thought about it for a pusher, but I'm going to play with them in a twin first. That prop disc is no joke. I've got a pusher or two they would work in, but I want to think about it as I don't like dragging props on landing. They may end up in a quad or hex, but first I wanna play more with them in wings. Thanks for your comment.
I’m a fan of how quiet she is and what you do hear sounds fantastic in my opinion. I had a Crocodile Dundee voice enter my brain and it said, “Now that’s a prop.”
I also Love to scratch build my own designs. I run around a 50 / 50 success rate. The two dilemmas that I run across is that I Feel the need to build Everything Russian Style. Combat ready. Able to take a beating and still fly. I build Everything with the full intention of getting at least 100 flights out of the airframe. Therefore I overbuild. Weight is my problem. My second problem is Torque Roll. I did run across a site that stated that a Good rule of thumb is to Never exceed 1/3 of your wingspan with the Prop length. After using that guideline, my Torque Roll problems are no more. That 15" prop looks like it's around 1/2 the length of your wingspan. I don't know how accurate this rule of thumb is, but it's been working for me. Example would be no more than a 10" prop on a 30" wing. Anyway, Great video.
yeah - this was just something for fun. I had a few odd parts land in my lap - and I wanted to play around with them. While I'm not into building huge airplanes (I'm space constrained) - I thought why not strap one on my high wing and learn first hand something about torque, p factor and gyroscopic forces. It was fun - and I just wanted to see if I could get her around the patch - and I managed - but a go around was not an option - as I was already below a minimum controllable airspeed for roll control. Scratch building is fun - and I get so much more satisfaction flying my own - plus you learn a ton. Good on ya for building, and I'd love to see some of your designs. Thanks for your comment!
You don't need such a large prop to stay quiet and that wing span seems way to small to counteract all that torque. I recommend a 7 or 8 inch prop. It would still be pretty quiet at the power levels needed to fly that plane.
@@Andy-df5fj Sometimes you just gotta see what happens. I knew it was doomed from the drawing board, but it was the fastest way to play with the motor and prop and feel the torque first hand from a large pancake. The airframe could handle it, it was controllable at higher airspeeds, it essentially Vmc'd as a single when it got slow. Keep the speed up, and she flew controllably. Call it science for the children. Either way, the next plane is nearly done. Another one built for fun. If you wanna fly that airframe well, I love it with a 2205-2300kv and a 6045 prop for RC. Put a FC in it, and you won't hear it running waypoint missions overhead. Thanks for your comment.
Kinda reminds me when I put a way to large gear reduction motor on a flyingwing sort of plane (looked more like a circle) when I trottheled up the plane rotated almost more then the propp 😀
You read about torque, p factor, and gyroscopic effects - but the physics become very real when you hold it in your hand. Good on you for giving it a try!
@@ShahriarFarkhan he’s had it for 10 years or so. I’m sure the exact one wouldn’t be available after that period of time. Bed size is the important part. You need to be able to fit sheets of foam board into it to cut aircraft pattern. A smaller inexpensive Co2 laser wouldn’t work. I don’t know which video it was and I’m not spending all that time going back to rewatch them to get you an answer. It’s worth your time watching all of the videos as they are all quite good and have a lot of information in them on the hobby. He has spoken about the laser in a few video talking about having a cooling unit as well as running the laser at 70% duty cycle to extend the life of the laser tube. All of this is from multiple videos. You should watch them all and it’s not a bad thing to support the channel as you do with a like on each one you watch. I’m sure Brett would appreciate that.
@@billcedarheath387 I very much appreciate the detailed response. I've been researching lasers and trying to find a unit that can fit the large foam board and balsa wood for parts. Thank you :)
Hi there, i'm interested in the methods you use to laser cut the foam-board, is it a diode or Co2 style and how do you overcome the melting of the foam while cutting? Thanks
I'm using a CO2 laser. It's a 100W tube, so I'm running it at low power and high speed to only cut the top layer and melt some of the foam. That works well for the hinges. The cuts are just that- higher power and lower speed. It just takes patience and time playing with your laser to learn the speeds and feeds that work best for you. Try a local maker space and see if they have a laser you can learn on. That's how I started. Thanks for your comment.
Prop wasn’t too heavy - it was remarkably light for its size (but also kinda brittle - although I wouldn’t have expected any prop to survive that). CG was good, and the plane had the load carrying capacity - the was just undersized for the torque of the motor. When I maintained enough airspeed, the ailerons were able to counteract the torque, and it flew and I was able to bring it around. I got too slow in the end, and the torque rolled her into the ground. All in all - I just wanted to make an odd sized motor fly… and we’re not done with it yet. It’s got at least one more turn around the patch.
Hardly a surprising result. Total mismatch of motor and propeller to the airframe. If you're aiming for maximum efficiency with that motor, then you'll have to also consider the airframe. You gotta have enough wing and control surfaces to overcome the torque roll or you'll be fighting a dog in the sky every time you fly. Kinda sorry for the harsh criticism, maybe it's just me and I'm extra ornery today, but this just seems like an obviously bad idea and not really worth uploading. But I upload stuff too, and most of it is crap. Feel free to stop by and point out what you don't like.
No worries - your criticism isn't harsh. It was built to fly a motor that landed in my lap. Torque, p factor, and gyroscopic effects are one thing on paper - but a whole different matter in the hand. I knew before I built it - that it would be an exercise in exploring the minimum controllable airspeed, and as you can hear in the video - I'm taking that in, and planning every input, as it's not as simple as a throttle jab - the motor would roll the plane. That's why I put her down rather than attempting a go around. I considered it a success as I was able to maneuver it around the field. There were no aspirations that this would be anything other than a flying challenge. Motors of this size are outside my wheelhouse. I like building small planes that I can travel with. Motors like this do require a bigger plane - but the really large stuff isn't something I feel compelled to build, own or fly. There's other dudes that love the large stuff - and that's awesome - but I'm not that guy. I do however feel that for me it's best to build and explore concepts first hand as you get a better understanding of the fundamentals in a way that will shape your designs going forward - and in a manner you may not absorb by simply reading from a book. I love the kids building their first planes, and while I want them to fly, I also like to let folks learn lessons via exploration - and that means you're going to have some failures along the way. Either way - it was a good day at the park. Thanks for your comment.
🤣 Oh man, that was quite a crash. Was just thinking it sounds pretty cool with that giant prop...
It's gonna sound better as a twin.
@@usefulaircraft with those props it’ll look like a foam board V-22 Osprey. Oh, that’s an idea. The Osprey’s got a lot of similar looks to some of your builds/designs. 😉
those pancake motors are beasts. i got some spares from an octo build that's going to go onto a pusher project
@@Mike-mm6jp they're fun to play with. Remarkably efficient, and interesting to learn how to best use them. I thought about it for a pusher, but I'm going to play with them in a twin first. That prop disc is no joke. I've got a pusher or two they would work in, but I want to think about it as I don't like dragging props on landing.
They may end up in a quad or hex, but first I wanna play more with them in wings.
Thanks for your comment.
I’m a fan of how quiet she is and what you do hear sounds fantastic in my opinion.
I had a Crocodile Dundee voice enter my brain and it said, “Now that’s a prop.”
@@billcedarheath387 it did sound amazing...
Suggest a twin with counter-rotating motors to null out the torque of big-air biting propellers. The motor/propeller combo did have a cool sound.
It did sound amazing. I loved the prop noise. ...and I may have already built a twin.
...but I gotta go to work.
I love when my old x8’s get retired - all that means is 8 planes will be joining the fleet asap. Lol
I also Love to scratch build my own designs. I run around a 50 / 50 success rate. The two dilemmas that I run across is that I Feel the need to build Everything Russian Style. Combat ready. Able to take a beating and still fly. I build Everything with the full intention of getting at least 100 flights out of the airframe. Therefore I overbuild. Weight is my problem. My second problem is Torque Roll. I did run across a site that stated that a Good rule of thumb is to Never exceed 1/3 of your wingspan with the Prop length. After using that guideline, my Torque Roll problems are no more. That 15" prop looks like it's around 1/2 the length of your wingspan. I don't know how accurate this rule of thumb is, but it's been working for me. Example would be no more than a 10" prop on a 30" wing. Anyway, Great video.
yeah - this was just something for fun. I had a few odd parts land in my lap - and I wanted to play around with them. While I'm not into building huge airplanes (I'm space constrained) - I thought why not strap one on my high wing and learn first hand something about torque, p factor and gyroscopic forces. It was fun - and I just wanted to see if I could get her around the patch - and I managed - but a go around was not an option - as I was already below a minimum controllable airspeed for roll control.
Scratch building is fun - and I get so much more satisfaction flying my own - plus you learn a ton. Good on ya for building, and I'd love to see some of your designs.
Thanks for your comment!
@@usefulaircraft ruclips.net/video/YPSK5cO9IsM/видео.htmlsi=NdZhXKHB5F73O9HQ
You don't need such a large prop to stay quiet and that wing span seems way to small to counteract all that torque.
I recommend a 7 or 8 inch prop. It would still be pretty quiet at the power levels needed to fly that plane.
@@Andy-df5fj Sometimes you just gotta see what happens. I knew it was doomed from the drawing board, but it was the fastest way to play with the motor and prop and feel the torque first hand from a large pancake. The airframe could handle it, it was controllable at higher airspeeds, it essentially Vmc'd as a single when it got slow. Keep the speed up, and she flew controllably.
Call it science for the children.
Either way, the next plane is nearly done. Another one built for fun.
If you wanna fly that airframe well, I love it with a 2205-2300kv and a 6045 prop for RC. Put a FC in it, and you won't hear it running waypoint missions overhead.
Thanks for your comment.
Might be time for a twin to cancel the torque
Already on it.
I love the radiomaster pocket
They're a great radio!
Kinda reminds me when I put a way to large gear reduction motor on a flyingwing sort of plane (looked more like a circle) when I trottheled up the plane rotated almost more then the propp 😀
You read about torque, p factor, and gyroscopic effects - but the physics become very real when you hold it in your hand.
Good on you for giving it a try!
Wow the radiomaster looks a lot easier to hold than my TX-16! Can you tell us which CNC/laser cutter you use for your foam parts?
He showed it off in a video. It’s an 80watt CO2 laser if my memory serves me correct.
@@billcedarheath387 Thank. you! Can you like or tell me which video? Do you know the brand?
@@ShahriarFarkhan he’s had it for 10 years or so. I’m sure the exact one wouldn’t be available after that period of time. Bed size is the important part. You need to be able to fit sheets of foam board into it to cut aircraft pattern. A smaller inexpensive Co2 laser wouldn’t work. I don’t know which video it was and I’m not spending all that time going back to rewatch them to get you an answer. It’s worth your time watching all of the videos as they are all quite good and have a lot of information in them on the hobby. He has spoken about the laser in a few video talking about having a cooling unit as well as running the laser at 70% duty cycle to extend the life of the laser tube. All of this is from multiple videos. You should watch them all and it’s not a bad thing to support the channel as you do with a like on each one you watch. I’m sure Brett would appreciate that.
@@billcedarheath387 I very much appreciate the detailed response. I've been researching lasers and trying to find a unit that can fit the large foam board and balsa wood for parts. Thank you :)
@@ShahriarFarkhan You’re probably looking at a cost that will be $3k USD or more. OMTech is a popular brand.
Hi there, i'm interested in the methods you use to laser cut the foam-board, is it a diode or Co2 style and how do you overcome the melting of the foam while cutting? Thanks
I'm using a CO2 laser. It's a 100W tube, so I'm running it at low power and high speed to only cut the top layer and melt some of the foam. That works well for the hinges. The cuts are just that- higher power and lower speed.
It just takes patience and time playing with your laser to learn the speeds and feeds that work best for you.
Try a local maker space and see if they have a laser you can learn on. That's how I started.
Thanks for your comment.
Thinking the prop was to heavy
Prop wasn’t too heavy - it was remarkably light for its size (but also kinda brittle - although I wouldn’t have expected any prop to survive that).
CG was good, and the plane had the load carrying capacity - the was just undersized for the torque of the motor. When I maintained enough airspeed, the ailerons were able to counteract the torque, and it flew and I was able to bring it around. I got too slow in the end, and the torque rolled her into the ground.
All in all - I just wanted to make an odd sized motor fly… and we’re not done with it yet. It’s got at least one more turn around the patch.
Hardly a surprising result. Total mismatch of motor and propeller to the airframe. If you're aiming for maximum efficiency with that motor, then you'll have to also consider the airframe. You gotta have enough wing and control surfaces to overcome the torque roll or you'll be fighting a dog in the sky every time you fly.
Kinda sorry for the harsh criticism, maybe it's just me and I'm extra ornery today, but this just seems like an obviously bad idea and not really worth uploading.
But I upload stuff too, and most of it is crap. Feel free to stop by and point out what you don't like.
No worries - your criticism isn't harsh. It was built to fly a motor that landed in my lap. Torque, p factor, and gyroscopic effects are one thing on paper - but a whole different matter in the hand.
I knew before I built it - that it would be an exercise in exploring the minimum controllable airspeed, and as you can hear in the video - I'm taking that in, and planning every input, as it's not as simple as a throttle jab - the motor would roll the plane. That's why I put her down rather than attempting a go around. I considered it a success as I was able to maneuver it around the field. There were no aspirations that this would be anything other than a flying challenge.
Motors of this size are outside my wheelhouse. I like building small planes that I can travel with. Motors like this do require a bigger plane - but the really large stuff isn't something I feel compelled to build, own or fly. There's other dudes that love the large stuff - and that's awesome - but I'm not that guy.
I do however feel that for me it's best to build and explore concepts first hand as you get a better understanding of the fundamentals in a way that will shape your designs going forward - and in a manner you may not absorb by simply reading from a book. I love the kids building their first planes, and while I want them to fly, I also like to let folks learn lessons via exploration - and that means you're going to have some failures along the way.
Either way - it was a good day at the park. Thanks for your comment.
Too much prop, too little wing.
Wait until you see the twin.