FireSak Vs. Lithium Battery Fire - Does The Protection Work?
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- The FireSak is a storage solution for lithium batteries that's been modified to accommodate very large PEVs (personal electric vehicles). The FireSak we test today was made for electric unicycles. I figured the best way to test it would be to get batteries from an electric unicycle and explode them inside the bag. Does it work? Watch the video and find out.
You can buy FireSaks at FireSak.com . There will be e-skate and e-bike FireSaks available soon.
If you want to learn more about PEVs you can check out gingeronwheels.com or visit linktr.ee.com/gingeronwheels to find a retailer near you.
What description section would be complete without a shout out to my amazing Patrons who help make RUclips content like this possible during the Winter months?
Richard Wing
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^^ These people rock ^^
/ gingeronwheels
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Kinda scary how these batteries just don’t stop burning!!! 🔥 definitely need these for scooters as well, most just fold down so it wouldn’t be so big I guess 🤷♂️!!?? Great vid Ginge 👍
Impressive test & review. Great outcome. Contained one of the more mysterious & virulent fire threats these e-toys pose as we move into all things electric. Great product. Thanks for the tip on the fire alarm as well.
Okay okay you got me. Order placed, but now I feel like I can't get it soon enough. Good eye opener.
Great one! Much needed information.
Great product; well thought out with vent holes. Will be buying with my euc. Thanks for doing the testing.
I appreciate this demonstration very educational.
Awesome demo. Ordered!
Ordered a couple for my wheels! Can’t wait to get them! :)
Excellent demo! Great product.
Impressive bag, man! Might have to get a couple.
Wow that was crazy. You definitely sold me on the Firesak. I'll have to get one for my InMotion V11.
Now make one with horizontal orientation, shaped like a folded e scooter that also rolls like a suitcase on wheels. Will sell out fast!
thank you bro for doing this video.
Fantastic update to your original version 👍
Thanks! I thought so too.
Thanks for doing this - I've been wondering how any affordable/portable battery bags would perform.
Everyone should watch this video, especially if they have been overdosing on recent and past *incidents* shown on YT every time *something* happens.
"fireproof Kevlar" = Nomex
:-)
I like your music decision in this video 😂
Thank you!
you sold me. my first euc arrives in july, will be getting one of these as well
I can only say bravo and you got yourself a new subscriber
Good Demonstration
i hope they restock soon i just got my wheel and this would put my mind to ease
Thankyou!
good job bro...i am amazed how well this works...i think you should blow one more in this same bag to see it fail...i think it can handle one or even two more...GREAT PRODUCT
I’m impressed!!
To be honest I was too. Seems to do the trick pretty well!
Dude, you are going to make FireSak $$$ haha I want one now
🔥Well done 🔥 👍
Good idea to have one
This is fantastic, I've got one for each wheel I own and keep them in the garage with a wifi-enabled smoke detector above them and thermo-hydrometers in each bag so I can monitor temperature and humidity since it's not climate-controlled out there.
There is only one suggestion I have. Since the trend seems to be that these wheels keep getting bigger and heavier, instead of having the top flap open and shut, you could have one long zipper go from the top down to one side so that it opens more like a clamshell than a traditional bag. This way, you could roll the wheel in and out of the bag instead of having to lift it several feet in the air - it would make this a lot more easy to use with bigger wheels.
There is a currently a design in the works that functions like you described. However, with some of the larger wheels you can actually turn the current large size FireSak on its side, roll the wheel in, and then just keep rolling. The bag will right itself under the weight of the wheel. It's a bit of a workaround but it'll due for now.
impressive and you made improvements since v1 which have been successful. Is it waterproof so I can charge my wheel out side in the rain ?
Genuine reactions
I wish someone made something to wrap around a scooter deck for this same purpose.
There is .. it’s called a fire blankets you can look it up on like bought a couple for my scooters
Look up welding blankets. That will work in a pinch, but flames will still shoot from the front and back of the scooter if it ignites.
Great product will definitely get one at some point when the European shipping is happening. Just think as an improvement it would be good to redirect the vent holes in like an snake pattern or something so the fumes would still exit and let the pressure out but doesn’t let the flames touch any outside stuff around the bag or come out somewhat less.
I think if you stapled some sort of metal mesh over the holes it could help suppress flames escaping as well. I've yet to test it though. It's hard to cover or redirect those holes in any meaningful way without pressure building so much that the zipper doesn't blow off
One layer of Current version Or just the internal layers + one more layer without vents that close from all sides except from the top. So it kind of diffuses all around the top. Maybe add 2 more vents on the other sides so it goes out equally. Maybe there will have to be some internal structure around the vents to prevent the outer layer blocking the vent from the explosion.
I think a better solution would be something that opens up from the front, so you can wheel in your EUC every day, Who knows. But seeing how scary these fires are ... I think that somewhere in the future there will be strict regulations for keeping these things indoors. And there will be many companies selling products that comply with dose regulations. The storage solutions will be more expensive than the EUC devices ...
Oh thanks I want it
I might buy a small one and then a bigger one. Better protection?
Didn't get to see what exactly you put into the bag (just some batteries?), but I wonder if it's big enough to hold a large EUC.
Fire product
Hello
Thank you for your video and for having tested this bag effectively. Many people advertise a bag without ever having used it in the conditions expected.
I think the model for electric bike batteries is just as effective, what do you think?
Thank you very much.
Olivier
Can you double bag it, eg, small bag in medium bag? Safer?
that was absolutely frightening ...wow
The remaining worry is that if it falls over, like it did here, the flame jets are suddenly much closer to the floor.
I was thinking of buying a small cast-iron wood stove. That way I can just run the exhaust pipe outside through a window. More expensive, but I wouldn't have to worry about fumigating my home.
or an old normal stove would handle the case of a burning battery.
i store some of my lipos in a lipo safe and the rest in the oven.
Hi there, I’m about to buy one of your bags and just saw your video,seeing that the flames wich come out of the bag are huge, why are the ventholes on the sind not higher up so the firespray wich comes out while exploding , aren’t so strong??greetings from Vienna Austria all the best , Marc😊
Did you do the whistling for this video ?
I'm gonna do a video on this richie told me about this 👍👍
It's effective for what it is, but I think a more complete solution is needed. As the smoke and heat will still do A LOT of damage to your house, not as much but still a lot.
I'm thinking something like a storage unit for EUC. Fireproof plaster or cement board sides, with one or two layers of the bag material on all sides.
I imagine having a front part that serves as a ramp to wheel in the EUC and then close it in.
And the top part should be tall, maybe not closed a all. And the key is a mechanism that dumps sand onto the EUC the moment a temperature spike is detected.
I do not know if it will work, or the batteries will just explode in the sand end destroy the enclosure. Maybe the "EUCoffin" needs to be sealed and you need to dump water onto it.
OR have a basin full of water and park the EUC on top of it (maybe with a FireSak thrown on it to minimize the initial fire spike. And have a trapdoor that dunks the EUC in the water the moment the battery goes out of control. If it's possible to detect a temperature spike in the battery before it explodes, maybe even dunk it before it goes nuclear.
Maybe something similar to dose things in which the Bomb squads explode bombs.
Is there a way to buy one of those? The link seems to be not working
wow thats scary ginge mate im honestly keeping my scooter outside now not lol no i keep mine in the bedroom ginge imagine that happening while your half asleep or a sleep great video as usuall
Yeah that would be terrifying.
I'm super bummed you never went through with the esk8 version of this. I would've bought a couple.
Sorry. I wish I had the resources to dump into the design of that, but there was very little demand for that particular style. 😞
Great. Now I have to spend $300. Damn you, Ginger on Wheels!
that burned lithium smell is something else right ginger? i had a mobile phone shop years ago and we had a battery explode on the shop sounded like a grenade! lol
@Ginger on Wheels have you ever had a fire on any of your escooters? How do you store them to prevent a fire?
I have all my EUCs in firesaks and have a really dank renters insurance policy.
@@GingerOnWheels thanks your reply! I was asking about your scooters tho because I've seen your older videos where you have 15 scooters lined up in your apartment 😂 I was wondering if that's how you store them and if you've had any issues? Because I store mine the same way 😅 thanks brother great videos as always
Great demo; but man, you have to get some PPE if you’re going to keep doing these.
wow that thing is cool but what about my Kaabo Wolf GT do you have one for that lol
Soon
i just got one of these. The large one for my ex.N. Better to be safe. Thanks. In the next version, if it's possible, can you have it so there is a door so i can wheel it in? or some type of front facing door. This wheel is almost 90lbs and very hard to put in the bag.
Have you tried something like this?
ruclips.net/user/shortsNxQpyC3K7_s?feature=share
@@GingerOnWheels thats a very helpful video!
is there a restock planned soon and will a medium bag fit a Nikola?
Nikola should fit the medium bag assuming you don't have any custom pads or a seat. Restock should happen in June. Better to order sooner than later. Preorders are open and half the batch is already presold
How do you fit a scooter in that bag?
Fantastic, pollutants will definitely be landing on the surfaces of the neighborhood as they are heavier than air. 👍
What's keeping it vertical? How do you get your 77lb Sherman in it? Lift it to shoulder height? Let's see a proper demo of how to use this Firesak because although it supresses the fire it seems pretty impracticle.
4:25 that would probably cause the remainder of the battery to explode in your face. Lithium fires do create their own oxygen, hence why it continued to burn from within the bag, but that oxygen is much less than the amount naturally available from air. Opening the lid would allow a ton more oxygen to reach the burning battery.
Thank you for this. But its only a pack of batts... what about real euc at 35kgs? Any tests? How you carry it then? Do you need some heat resistant blanket between you and bag ti carry out? If you drag it on ground...wont it rip from that weight?
It's rated to 90lbs. No heat blanket required.
@@GingerOnWheels thank you. Gonna get two of these. One for home, one at work. Scooter to big for those, so with euc purchase ill be fully prepared.
you're nuts for standing so close!!!
How does it not have oxygen inside if there are two vent holes on the bag?
Ristretto ebike, can you review please 🙏
What if you arranged ordinary cinder blocks, with no mortar, in a way that overlapped each other, but still allowed gasses and smoke to be released, but no shooting parts could get past, and then covered it with a heavy piece of metal or tiles, with cinder blocks on top, and then charged your battery on top of one cinder block in the middle of this cinder block fire box? Please build something like that and set an e-bike battery on fire inside it and do a video. Thanks!
International? I'm in Australia, didn't see an FAQ on the site.
You should have put some potatoes in there and a whole chicken. Why waste free heat lol.
Can it handle a commander fire? That battery is 4x the size of the one you tested.
I'd bet it could, but that's a very expensive experiment. If you can find someone willing to donate batteries then send them my way!
I gotta question about the washer screws in between the front wheel and front fork , can I ride my scooter with one off or would I be messin up the front motor???
The FireSak has no washers or screws 🙂
@@GingerOnWheels my bad I meant on my nanrobot d4+ 3.0 I fixed the front tire and i couldn’t put both washer on the front only 1 idk if I can still ride it like that or not
Is there a reason why you used non flammable Hardie Backer Cement board for the base instead of real wood like a sheet of plywood which most house floors are built with? I don't expect a red heart click on this by the way.
1:11 GingerTV
That's great. If only the wouldn't happen though
Will you review the ninebot max G30LP?
Maybe someday. Not on my radar right now though.
Will my nanrobot d6+ would fit in this bag? I would think it wouldn't be as bad with scooters cuz they are in a metal box screwed shut, although I can be wrong but do they have these for escooters as well? I know the information about lithium batteries I come from a drone background I know enough about these batteries and how to charge them. But you can never be too safe and it is so smart to get one of these bags I have them for my drone batteries as well.
The metal box would explode, violently, like a bomb, with metal shrapnel.
@@ihuliige6776 oh God that makes me feel better. In my mind I was telling myself that so I wouldn't be so nervous all time with the thing sitting across the room from me now. My drone batteries are small and would charge them in a lithium fire proof bag. There needs to be a fire proof bag for scooters as well.
I think the scooters would leak out from gaps and vents in the chassis the batteries are container in. Like how it exits the vents of this bag.
I just got an idea maybe charging the scooter in an empty bath tub could help. I will contain some flames and you can then turn on the water and drown the scooter under water.
Part of what made the S20 new York fire so extreme is that the batteries were in metal enclosures. The pressure builds and finds the weakest spot in the metal. Once it blasts a hole in the metal enclosure it acts like a rocket and redirects all the flames out of one tiny hole. Potentially even more dangerous. I'm thinking there will be scooter sizes soon but we are still doing R&D on sizing, manufacturing, and shipping logistics. These things aren't cheap to make.
Dude how about some ppe
Hi there, what’s going on with your homepage …been weeks already that it’s not working
I can never show this to my employers lol, they will never let me keep my scooter under my desk. I don't care how well I locked up my scoot it would get vandalized or stolen if I have to keep it outside during work. Really curious about the statistics for how many of these actually flame up. I saw you post about the 50 e scooter fires on the UK subways, what percentage of that out of the total number of scooters, and was it any specific type of battery. Great video btw. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best, take my money lol.
I heard they singled out the Kaabo Mantis, but not sure why.
Good thing we have a parking of personal vehicles right near security buth.
Pretty impressive guess it is more than just a mylar bag. I'm going to eventually build a steel or aluminum box to park my wheels in.
Make sure it has vent holes and a way to get it out of your house if the wheel ignites inside of it. 😁
@@GingerOnWheels yeah, separate boxes with wheels would probably be a better idea than one big one
Just bought an old army surplus ammo can 16x12 inches for my engwe ebike battery and yes im drilling vents in the lid
Oh damn that's scary man. I love my scoot but this makes me want to trade me scooter for an ebike with a removable battery.
Happens to those too sometimes... removable ebike battery storage bags will be on preorder soon. They also double as a little transportation bag so you can keep the battery in a little bag with you and lock the bike up outside. Removing the battery also makes the bike easier to lift into your car and such.
Is there anything like this for electric scooters?
Not yet, it soon.
Wait...how are those, in any context, fun facts? Haha!
Good point 😅
Try exploding a battery inside a flammable liquid container.
I bet that would contain the heat and flames too.
Just got a vsett 10+ with your name as how I found out about it
Good stuff! If you ordered from Revrides I hope you snagged that GINGER50 coupon!
@@GingerOnWheels ofc i did😁
Any coupon code we could use??
No coupons right now. The price is 149 for the larges right now but will be going up once they are back in stock.
So batteries just explode for no apparent reason?
Yes
Yes, they do.... unfortunately. For scooters it's usually from water damage, or faulty chargers, but it can also be random. In the UK last year there were over 50 scooter fires in their subway system. So many that they banned escooters on the subway altogether.
there's always a reason😮
Another danger is the amount of cobalt and other heavy metals that are carried in the smoke of a burning lithium-ion battery fire. Mere exposure to the cobalt contained in this toxic smoke on ones skin causes permanent health damage. Stay upwind if you are unfortunate enough to be in the proximity of a burning lithium-ion battery.
I can definitely confirm that. I sat in my Prius with the air conditioner on for about an hour waiting for my headache to go away after I filmed this. Heavy metal fumes are no joke. Probably lost 1 of my 2 remaining brain cells this day.
So do scooter batteries explode? Is it common?
Not common, but does happen. 50 scooter fires on the UK subway last year. So many that e-scooters are banned on their subway now.
@@GingerOnWheels wow , now I'm a little freaked out
Alloa good idea would be to make the zipper on one of the sides so you can roll your wheel into the bag and don’t have to lift it , way too heavy for everyday use ,,,,,,just a thought greetings from Vienna Austria
Are the cells remain reusable? :D :D :D
The smoke damage alone would be thousands, more probably multiple ten(s) of thousands of dollars. In an apartment the multiple lawsuits from the toxicity would stack up. Bankruptcy would be the only course. The flame scorched concrete backer board suggests to me that a structure fire could still ensue depending upon placement. Best do your charging in this bag in the middle of the back yard or on a concrete driveway or patio with a suitable large gauge extension cord. Little wonder apartment complexes are beginning to not allow Li-Ion bikes and other devices. There are typically fast charge or unusual circumstances that are the cause based in operator ignorance.
Good lord how big is the battery? Mine is only 36 volt and is less than 8"x 8"x 3" !
They are big. One of the 900wh packs is about 12" x 8" . My Sherman S unicycle has 4 packs in it that size. EUCs have massive batteries.
I had a golf cart battery blow up in my face once, thank god I wasn't hurt or injured but it was like a gun shot going off.
Chuck some brisket and ribs in there
Mmmmm... poison..... 😅
NICE NOW I KNOW NOT TO POKE A HOLE IN MY BATTERY PACK
LOOKS LIKE A GOOD THING TO HAVE
I consider it a failed product because of it not containing the flames completely. Also it does nothing to the sooth that will destroy your house interior. It’s a good attempt, but not containing a fire. Of course it may be better than nothing. That could be enough of a reason to get one. But it is so much inferior at containing a fire compared to what is used in fright airplanes. And when this much more advanced design is readily available for rc model enthusiasts for their small lipos and li-ion cell packs, one would hope someone would design something similar box like container. Naturally we’re talking about something needing to be able to contain very high pressured hot gasses coming from large cell packs. This is what I wish for, not being an engineer, so not knowing if it’s possible, just hoping for such a safety product. Take a look at Bat-box designed by an aerospace engineer. That’s what I’m thinking about. And waiting for a true solution I just might myself try to get hold of a Firesack y’all!
Most people aren't willing to spend the thousands of dollars it would cost to manufacture and ship such a container. Lipo explosions release a ton of gas, any sealed container will explode unless the volume of air is at least 10x that of the battery inside the bag. That means a sealed box would need to be 10x10ft in order to completely contain all gas and fumes from an EUC fire.
Something tells me you will have a very short life if you keep this up.
Imagine riding a 72 volt scooter at 50+ mph, and all of a sudden.., BAM!! you get thrown violently many feet into the air, you crash, and burn. Literally
Would be nice if firesak had a European distributor 🙂
My Ewheel will likely be stocking them. You should hit them up info@myewheel.com
Ginger on wheels just made a ton of people not buy scooters not buy anything PEV related.
If i saw this video last week i wouldn't have bought the wolf warrior GT PRO.
You can always return it. Or sell it for exactly what you bought it for. Someone will buy it, I promise.
Probably one of the better bags I've seen in my entire time with Lithium, sad that theyre only single use, but damn they save some money when something does go up.
Next time make sure you do the full test with the bag standing up, might help with venting heat out of the bag, although its not really going to matter at the end of the day as the bag wont be able to be reused, but it might reduce some of the melting.
Peace of mind is nice, for sure.
But I'm still risking the biscuit, nothing out there for scooters still anyways.
And please, get yourself a good mask for these tests, lithium/cadmium smoke is not nice even in small doses
Yeah I learned that the hard way. Got pretty dizzy and sick while filming this. Scooter size will come in a bit but its a work in progress.
@@GingerOnWheels Trust me, I feel your pain, I've had a few lipos go up over the years by being stupid, I'll admit it haha.
Man, theyd have to find a way to be able to wheel in a full size scooter, otherwise I'll just stick to keeping mine close to the front door (not a fan of folding the x10, it wreaks havoc on the folding mech)
@@JamiePineappleWyatt saying "single use battery bag" is like saying "single use crash helmet"
there are a lot of materials and design features that are common or even required in other vehicles that haven't made it to the EUC market yet.
I wish I had an EV shop up right now, I'd already be trying to birth a US made EV...ANY EV FFS.
A battery box made of ceramic, invar, and composite fabric wraps could be made to chill and vent consistently and properly (won't eat itself, battery box stays intact throughout fire), and protect the rider would be fun to make for EUC and really all small personal EV. AFAIK Tesla is the only one to have humans sitting on top of their batteries when they go off and live - that shit is vented in crazy ways and has to do it while the battery is eating itself burning like the sun.
If I had the capital and a few more hands to bring an EV design and repair shop online, we could SMASH this market before it's fully grown.
I have the skills, I've built lots of things like this for work. :-) 25 years in technology development...shouldn't go to waste just because I became handicapped and unhirable because I can't be a forklift no more. Maybe some community on the internet will care about what I have to offer where corporations just see a dude who can't pick things up and put them down all day long. I'm a proven strong player for any engineering or product team. People out there with similar experience and talent have got to be thinking the same things to themselves.
I mean, I'm working on integrating an enviolo CVT into hollow hub motors...we can have gear reduction! That means smaller motors and less cells to get the same tasks done on less energy. they're just barely getting a handle on acceleration and braking curves lol the V12 was the first model to allow separate control of your accel and braking curves and it still doesn't really do it right when you're trying to dial in your reverse speeds. Why are EUC unidirectional anyhow? Why can't I hit it off a big jump and come down goofy side (so to speak) without the wheel completely losing its mind and stacking you on impact? S22 is trying to do this with "freewheel" algorithms (poorly named because they're actually "free spinning wheel" algorithms and not confusingly the ones we already get with MTB freewheel hubs) but they've got it working in the forward direction so far.
I have dozens more safety and performance feature improvements to test once I can get some hardware on a bench...anyhow.
Maybe someone somewhere will see my whining on the net and give me a call because the killed it in crypto last week and they want to dump cash into something useful....interesting...forward looking instead of reactive designs? lol
@@GingerOnWheels no mask, put it on the other side of a wall. I am unsure most cartridge respirators can handle the volume of airborne toxins I saw pouring out.
if you see a giant sheet of Lexan in someone's garage, that's what it's for lol
But Will It Blend ?
Absolutely not 🤣
Large euc firesaks go for $149. Sold out btw. How much do you think a scooter size sak would cost? How feasible would that be...Maybe like a motorcycle cover? Thanks for the new paranoia lol.
Yup I went and looked and they are all gone. Who ever is selling these bags is going to make a killing selling them after people see these videos of unicycles and escooters on fire.
I feel it would be easier to make a fire proof box using ceramic, metal skin etc, that you can wheel the scooter into and close the side.
For scooters you can get a fire blanket
@@KiziEwheels do you have links to recommend?
@@RennieAsh you would want some vent holes otherwise you got a bomb