I've read the first Ship Breaker and I can understand that it's definitely a YA book alright and shares some similarities to other books mentioned here but I'd like to hear your take on the series and it's spin off
Ah yes the template of the dystopian novel set in the USA where a brutal regime with a nonsensical government wins a civil war easily but then gets overthrown by teens who have weird love triangles.
Wouldn't it be more interesting if we got to read about the rise of the "big bad ruler" so that we can see the fall of... Let's say the United States? It could be from the pov of a high school girl which makes sense since America has high schools and they're not gonna disappear overnight. It also makes adding the love triangle so much easier and not out of place. Best part, doesn't require much imagination. Just have economic recession, race riots, wars, and climate change disasters combined be the cause for some Trump like President to take over with his goons of supposed patriots labeling any violent opposition as "antifa".
It’s pretty insane how the book makes it clear that Katniss and Peeta are playing up their “star crossed lovers” angle for the appeal of the Capitol to pull the rich citizens attention away from the actual horrors of the Hunger Games Only for the movie to play up the love triangle subplot and end up incidentally being the most memorable parts of the movie rather than the social commentary
@Maurits in the book it ends with peeta realising it was an act cause somehow he just suddenly forgot “oh hey, this is the plan.”. Anyways probably one of my worst reads yet as it was boring, unfulfilling and the whole thing is just fucking dumb.
Oh interesting, didn't realize people felt this way about it! I always felt like the film adaptations handled that particular plot thread pretty well for the most part. In the first movie, it's clear Katniss doesn't truly quite reciprocate Peeta's feelings and sees him as a way to gain sponsors. This causes clear tension between them in the next movie with Katniss only gradually becoming attached to Peeta, just like in the book. Katniss' rationale for what she's doing always seemed to align across the adaptations to me.
The thing about the Hunger Games "love triangle" is that it's not just about the "bad boy" vs the "sensitive boy." By the end of the series, it's about what life Katniss wants for herself. Gale represented anger and revenge and constantly fighting back, and Katniss just wanted to escape that and move on. The two men actually represented different parts of her personality and character growth, which a lot of typical love triangles don't.
I saw a post that I really resonated with: “I get that Gale vs Peeta for Katniss was supposed to represent the choice b/w peace & life vs war & death, but did a brown, marginalized, disenfranchised and traumatized boy HAVE to be the metaphor for rage & war & violence? And did a romance & nuclear family with a white boy HAVE to be the metaphor for true peace and happiness?” It never sat right with me the way that Collins twisted Gale’s (valid) anger. At the end of the day, she’s an older white woman and it definitely seems to show by MJ, not just though the love triangle but the way she was criticizing communism through D13
@@pissclown yes. He & Katniss (the entire seam as a race) were coded as indigenous(to the americas): signature braid, ‘hunter-gatherer’, knows plants & their healing properties. Katniss distinguishes herself from the white ppl in the book: looks different from Town people like Peeta, Madge, Delly, her mother and sister who are white, blue eyed, blonde. (Looks like her father who is seam) Seam ppl have darker features. Not to mention the systemic class differences, which are supposed to be a reflection of the US’s society. People assume white characters are the standard when reading, but why? I mean, where in the book did it say Katniss was white? It didn’t. White authors like Collins tend to use olive to be ambiguous since it would draw certain readers away to have a non-white hero for once. ESPECIALLY one who challenges and overthrows an oppressive, capitalist system. (Which is why the movie casting sucks- looks like some white lady was leading some type of race war)
I like how in the Hunger Games the Peta relationship was for survival, not romance. The main character didn’t want the relationship either but had to go along so they could get popularity. Love triangles are very common so it was a breath of fresh air
I also like how the other angle of the love triangle was actually between old friends, even if the "love" itself was dysfunctional. It was nice instead of the meeting during the series and falling instantly, it gave some nice groundwork to their relationship. I also like how each person of the triangle suffered from the issues and events in the book and it bled into the relationships. It makes sense that traumatized people had complicated relationships and emotions about EVERYONE, including the ones they have romantic feelings for.
@@n1gtwhisper158 She ended the Hunger Games by having Katniss kill Coin instead of Snow how tf was that not satisfying? Also, if your talking about the ending of Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes the ending might not have been very climatic but it made sense and was still shocking.
Ikr, I only knew of like 5-6. I guess iceberg theory applies here, for every one that breaks into my spheres of awareness there's ten more that don't XD
Its probably because,look at the world and th lack of hope for the future in newer gneration. It actually makes sense. And dystopia i right, just why have it to have some complicated love triangle, an trappings of romance focus, a young adult without that, would be fine.
@@tuopsy He's highlighting the hypocrisy of condemning these books for "cloning" another series when the series you apparently thought was completely original was actually a "clone" itself. Clone is in quotes because anyone who knows how stories work, knows that every story is taking something, usually alot of things from another older story. Good writing is about reintroducing tropes in new situations and for new purposes, not making new tropes entirely.
It represents first of all the traditional, pioneering survivalist aesthetic (very American) which is related to revolutions, and secondly, a reference to how back in the day there was freedom that the new generation wants to inherit. See it as a sort of, inheritance of that wildness/independence that's necessary for freedom. Also, often it can be used as an allusion to the hunter and the hunted, as in, the dystopian government and the libertarian teens It's also a symbol of the death of the free people (hunting is often a sign of freedom, because there is no government that has to restrict hunting to stop animal extinction for example), that tried to fight back against the government, but were eliminated, which is the explanation of why the people who are still alive and now oppressed are always so weak, but the ones who inherit the jacket have rekindled the flame. I think it's a good symbol actually.
Yeah she was being used more than anything. She didnt want to be their mockingjay, but had no choice due to the circumstances. Something the copies tend to overlook
Right? The point of her character was to show that she was only fighting against the Capitol in order to avenge her hometown, and protect her own immediate loved ones; not really for society at large. Even in the end, when she goes on her rash assassination trip in Mockingjay, Collins realistically makes sure to have her solo plan fail and the organized rebel plan to succeed.
Also made me realize that the actual book Enclave could be totally cut out of the story and nothing would really change. The story truly started with the second book.
Something that gets me is that these dystopias always exist in isolation, there's no 3rd country secretly funding the rebels ala the revolutionary war in america. Also 1984 was warning of 'don't let this happen!' rather than a 'take down the system!' story.
Yeah, there’s a reason Orwell ended 1984 with the main character being tortured and everything sucking. If we do fall into a 1984 reality, we are going to have to hope that a Hunger Games style insurrection happens, because the main message of that story is: “Well, if this happens, we’re not getting out of it.” Also, yeah, they never really go into other countries in these dystopia stories. It’s like… what’s up in Russia? You couldn’t elaborate or does the writer seem to think the USA is the entire world? Outside of that Total Recall remake, I don’t think I’ve ever scene a dystopian movie or book set in the ruins of the UK. Is no one funding these rebels?
I personally really want to write a dystopia about multiple countries, but I suck at writing, anyways there are dystopias which deal with countries outside the dystopia.
Sidenote but it always kills me when conservatives go on about "HAVING TO CALL PEOPLE BY THEIR PREFERRED PRONOUNS IS BASICALLY 1984" when Orwell was a total leftist and an incredibly outspoken DemSoc. The speed at which he rolls in his grave should be harnessed to power the entire United States
@@SuperNuclearUnicorn yeah, that’s weird. The problem with stories like 1984 is the main politics of the world aren’t always clearly defined (just general authoritarianism from what I’ve heard) and that leads to many people saying how such and such is Orwellian. Like, “Tesco not saying Christmas as much is so Orwellian.” That literally happened, Paul Joseph Watson didn’t say exactly that, but he used those words.
Granted, I’m absolute trash who eats up these YA novels like they’re popcorn, but I will die defending Hunger Games as a series with legitimate literary merit.
Same, I love the Hunger Games books, although I don't like how the movie seems to of missed the point though and so took away Katniss's personality. Favourite part has to be when Peta and Gale talk about how they think Katniss will date whomever she thinks is better for survival, you want to get mad at them but then realize given what's happened what else would they think? *Chef's kiss* art
If you like these clones, from the ones the video mentioned I recommend Shatter Me. I read it just when it came out though, so like...what 10-12 years ago? So I probably wouldn't call it good if I read it now (especially since I developed a primal and rabid hatred for all things YA, apologies), but I know that I REALLY liked it when I read it back then, and it actually got me into writing along with Firelight (not a clone by my standards, it's a urban fantasy about a girl who's half dragon, they're called drakie in my language but I suppose they're something else in English, like her whole race are half dragons, and she wants to like interact with humans or whatever and at one point a guy sees her transform so her whole family is exiled from the dragon village, etc. The trilogy was decent, hated the fourth book.) so I recommend it.
@DEEPFOXJUDE People always compare The Hunger Games to Battle Royal, but both of them are heavily inspired by The Most Dangerous Game. I haven’t read the book BR is based off of, but THG series touches on a lot of the same social commentary found in The Most Dangerous Game.
@@daniellecalderwood4626 Suzanne Collins said she got inspiration from the ancient Greek myth where the King of a kingdom that conquered and now controlled a smaller kingdom demanded seven young guys and seven youngs girls to be sent from said kingdom for an annual event where they where put in the Labyrinth and forced to fight the Minotaur for the entertainment of the controlling kingdom. Most Dangerous Game does make sense though,
8:21 At least in The Hunger Games, some effort was done into this. Some districts are tested better than others, while some (like 1 and 2) actively support the Capitol as they benefit from it too. Even within districts some people are better of, like how the Merchant class in 12 have it much better than others. District 12 seems to be some form of scapegoat IMO. Their population is tiny (ten thousand in a country of millions) and rely on an industry that’s not even needed (district 5 produces the power, so coal is barely needed), so the Capitol could be using them as an example of “look how terrible it is there, be happy with what you’ve got”.
Plus Hunger Games was never meant to be a "morally bad, but otherwise functioning"-world to begin with. The setup leads to the conclusion from minute one
I mean there's also some systemic racism (see district 11) but it seems to be... I think the best way to describe it is liberal. This is accentuated even harder in the prequel, where Katniss' analogue is all but explicitely called Romani and actually explains how the capitol displaced her people and their way of living, and a character that is constantly belittled (along with his mother), although the stated reason is that he was born in the districts, is black-coded. And yet Snow almost seems to purposefully avoid describing any distinguishing features in his inner monologue. It's like, yeah no one is EXPLICITELY racist or homophobic or sexist... but yes the govermment is 99% old white cishet dudes. On a completely unrelated note, did you see ICE's post for pride month?
An interesting fact is that Suzanne Collins wanted to change the focus more to the rebellion in the Hunger Games, but her editor didn't allow it since most of their audience were prepubescent or teenage girls that read it for the romance. So she had to develop a plot that wasn't interested in making.
@@valterfara5027 Something that seemed to have happened again with her book on Snow :( The Hunger Games is such a unique and well-told story (savor the flaws) so it's a shame that the author was forced to focus on the character's relationships more than the characters themselves. I always wondered how The Hunger Games would of played out if the books were Adult Fiction instesd of Young Adult. Bet the books would of been a lot darker (which is saying a lot seeing just how dark the series is already)
@@valterfara5027 I was a teenager when it came out, gotta say, I was not interested in the romance. I liked the friendships and other relationships but I cared about as much as Katniss about the love stuff. To this day I want my comrades to adopt the 3 fingers on lips, raise arm thing. But Iike the fist too, and it's much better as a drawing.
I hated Matched for that love triangle. I haven’t read it since middle school almost a decade ago, so I don’t recall much, but I remember being pissed that there even was a love triangle. This girl was matched with her childhood best friend, and it was clear they both loved each other in the way only naive teenagers do, and yet she decided to fall for the outcast because..? He was mysterious? That just seemed incredibly selfish of her when both she and her matched partner seemed to be so excited to be together before. I might be remembering it wrong, but I’m still upset either way lol I wasted so much of my time reading those books.
I bet the publisher insisted on this love triangle. I don't know why authors comply, maybe it's contractual, but at this point it would be better to self publish.
The love triangle is stupid AND AND it turns out a third party attracted to the childhood friend manipulated things so that the main girl fell in love with the bad boy outcast. Why? The third party, another girl, was in love with the childhood friend despite barely knowing him. AND NOBODY CALLED THE THIRD PARTY OUT ON THIS. I stopped reading the second book because of this shitty plot twist
@@DieNibelungenliad eh I think in Matched, it was an authors choice. The whole trilogy is basically about the love triangle (even tho everyone knows she’ll pick Kai) and the second book is largely in Kai’s perspective as he walks through a desert
Wasnt the twist in the third book that the girl was called to match people for the government and created the love triangle herself to oppose the very very very controlling government? She forgot because the government forced the people that matched to eat a forget pill?
@MX 3 i think the prequels were the best ones honestly. I might just be a sucker for character studies and worldbuilding, but those books resonated with me more than the main trilogy
I disagree with your point on rebel infighting in respect to the hunger games. Throughout Mockingjay, katniss learns how truly conniving and manipulative President Coin is, as well as the many people inside of her military that Katniss can’t trust. This all leads to Katniss killing Coin out of fear that she would simply lead them into another cycle of Districts vs Capitol. It’s not as complex as I’m sure other media does it, but considering the mental state of Katniss throughout the entirety of the book, I think it can be somewhat excused as her PTSD is also a focal point.
I'm pretty sure that The Hunger Games is excluded from most of these categories. He's probably talking about the clones that decided to ignore the infighting.
She and Gale also clash a LOT about their methods - Katniss is mostly focused on taking down the Capitol, whereas Gale isn’t opposed to killing civilians (or even committing war crimes like bombing medics) if he feels it’s necessary
I legit want to see realistic and dynamic political and cultural interaction. It's super interesting to me to learn how a city like Venice became the trade and economic powerhouse due to its location and relations with other Italian cities.
Not a YA, but if you want a great... I guess "urban fantasy" or even better, "alternate timeline fantasy" series that focuses on politics and culture, read "The Divine Cities" by Robert Jackson Bennett. It's three books but I don't wanna call it a trilogy since each book has a seperate story simply set in the same world and sharing some characters. In short, the Continent was once a home of several god-like entities who ruled and protected the people and enabled them to use miracles and magic in their everyday lives and become the most powerful, near-invincible empire. But then the nation of Saypur, who was enslaved by Continent and living in terrible conditions, found a way to kill the gods. Most of the miracles disappeared with them, and now Saypur rules over the Continent and tries to create some semblance of peace - which is tough, considering the Continentals hate them and still see them as inferior beings. In the first book, we meet the main trio - Shara, a saypurian spy who's sent to the Continent's capital city, Bulikov, to investigate something that seems like a newly emerging cult that wants the divine regime back. Sigrud, her loyal but pretty scary bodyguard from the neutral nothern islands of Dreyland. And Turyin, a tough war veteran woman who's job is to lead the saypurian military forces in the city and keep the peace. I cannot stress enough how absolutely AMAZING the series is. It's mature, has complicated and engaging plot that respects the readers intelligence, the characters are all interesting and flawed and believeable, and everything is morally grey. We see the story mostly from the perspective of once-slaves who've managed to overthrow their oppressors,only to basically become the new oppressors (though they are much, much less cruel). There's tension, mystery, sometimes it feels almost like some supernatural detective story, other times it's packed with action. The author has incredible imagination and so the miracles and the magical beings that exist there are something we've never seen before. The world is dark and gritty and in places feels almost post-apocalyptic, since after the gods died, all major cities were wrecked (because some building were literally created with magic materials - and when that stopped existing...). Bulikov feels like the dirtiest, darkest version of late 19th century New York or something. Speaking of, the author is american, but in the fictional world he created, all of Continent has somewhat russian-sounding names, Dreyland is obviously supposed to be a pseudo-nordic state, and Saypur seems to be based on... India? Indonesia? Malaysia? Anyway, it's really just a breath of fresh air. Edit: Wow. I didn't realize how LONG the comment was, I'm sorry. :D
Yeah, but cities like Venice rise over the course of generations. It's hard to write a compelling story when your characters die of old age anticlimactically every few chapters/books
Fans of the hunger games will reluctantly settle for: Detergent Will young adult woman survive in a world where bad government decides what kind of soap you use? Yes she will and she’ll be stunning and brave in the process
@@luuuuux_ Thank you-I am still writing it but as soon as I get somewhere with it I’ll make sure to let you know. Yes, I got my username from a brief experience on Reddit. There’s someone else on there going by CJ now but I used to be CJ of Camp Jupiter, complete with exchanges comb that acted like Riptide. I love the Riordan books
I believe one of the reasons these books and a lot of YA fiction get popular in general is that it is one of the few categories of book media where teen aged girls and young women are the default protagonist and get to have strong powers and (hopefully) personalities. While there are a lot of mediocre ones with little depth, and bare minimum quality, we should just remember that there’s mediocre books and copy cats in every genre and make sure to not just hate only on the one populated by teen girls
Sturgeon's law. 90% of fantasy is Gary Stu self-inserts who go on adventures on generic fantasy land and get a harem, save damsels and slay dragons. Do you know why nobody really criticizes them nowadays? Because they're not popular anymore. But don't be fooled. In the early 2000s they were the go-to punching bag for literary critics, and that really didn't have anything to do with the demographics of the audience of those books... Teen boys. Today is no different. 90% of YA dystopian fiction is just bad and criticized because they copy the popular thing.
The main problem I have with the type is simply because I love the distopia books but I sat for hours looking for one male protagonist just for a change of pace but no nothing
2 things: -I forgot how dark THG saga ending is, where Katniss imagines her children playing over the bodies of everyone who died in the war buried there, and she just says "but there are worse games to play". As a 14 yo boy that gave me the chills. -Look how cool, stylish and full of symbolism THG covers' are, and compare them to the ugly af copycat covers lol
This reminds me of the time I wrote a Hunger Games clone by accident. Not only was I not even trying, I wasn't even *writing* - I was just playing PUBG and flirting with another player.
I kinda want to see a Hunger Games clone with the rebel groups getting into conflict with each other since it would be interesting to see how they manage that dynamic
@@sleepysera And more interesting too, especially since you could both have evil rebels out for themselves as well as a group of paragon-good rebels just by have them being different factions.
Obviously, the good guys would stick with the protagonist. And the reason for them being good guys would be sticking with the protagonist. Don't they dare show any nuance in those stories.
Of the clones, I'd say that the only ones listed that were for the most part decent were Legend and the Maze Runner. Though I forgive Legend for having some ridiculous aspects to it, because as an author myself, sometimes you just like the cool factor in a world, even if that does include a retractable dome over Denver. lol
But it's better if they come up with a credible explanation for it even if that means inventing some tech to justify it so that the world becomes coherent, but I can look over that too. Congrats on being an author!
I do have to say that the darkest minds is also decent. Some of these are good series just put under the umbrella of YA dystopian, and isn't the maze runner got a Male protagonist?
Honestly all these dystopian stories where love is restricted don't hold a candle against real life The "love jihad" conspiracy theory proves that life is stranger than fiction
@@LyionOfRoses Hindu nationalists are convinced that India's Muslim population is collaborating on a grand project to increase its share of the population by seducing marrying and converting Hindu ladies en masse
My guess for why Denver is because a lot of emergency military/government infrastructure is built around the Rocky Mountains. NORAD, Emergency Bunkers, and maybe even potential plans to relocate the capital to the area if I remember correctly. It's also one of the biggest cities in the middle of the country. I don't know, those are random guesses. It is an odd coincidence.
If it's a main city in Colorado then the various dams (Hoover etc) would probably play into it as well. New Vegas the Fallout game is pretty much control the water control the people and given half of these are post eco-apocalypse any major city remotely near major water sources would be valuable
@@maiaberryman4985 The dams are a great point, that hadn't even occurred to me. A number of the areas around Colorado are desert or semiarid which only adds to the necessity.
You mentioned one of the best things about the Hunger Games: no real happy ending. In a way, it's a happy ending with Katniss and Peeta having a family and hope for a better government. But the ending isn't without real pain and struggle. Katniss lost her entire family. Her love for Peeta is more admiration for his ethics than it is passionate love. The new government hasn't been established which means all the factions are still fighting.
Right? I crave a book where instead of having to choose one out of two or (rarely) three, they just work out a healthy poly because they all care about each other. I just desperately want a poly romance book that’s not JUST romance, you know?
This year in English class my English teacher gave us a list of Dystopian novels to choose from that we could read. Some of the ones on the list where ones you mentioned (Delirium, Maze Runner, etc.) and others were the really well known dystopia novels (Hunger Games, Divergent, The Selection). I ended up going with a book called Steelheart, which is a book about a rebel group working to take down Tyrannical Superheroes. I thought it was a good book, it had a romance subplot but it wasn't a love triangle (thank god) and it didn't overshadow the main plot. The rebel group wasn't just a bunch of teenagers with the power of friendship and plot armor, which seems like it's a rare thing in the genre. I don't know if Steelheart is particularly special in terms of Dystopian novels, but it seems like it deviates more from the formula than other books do. Then again, I really only hear about novel plots through videos so what do I know lol.
I thought the first Maze Runner book was decent. And didn't it come out before Hunger Games? Eh, it wasn't a series worth arguing about, no matter how decent the first book was.
Right? But I think the whole movie thing with the maze runner being after the hunger games made it a clone. Because a lot of people (at least who I know) dont know that the maze runner was first. I cant say which is better in my opinion but I do like Thomas more than Katniss as a main character
@DEEPFOXJUDE YA is not really a genre. It is a target demographic. The problem is the mainsream YA books are not even what the target demographic really likes, or needs. YA is currently centered in appealing to women ages 15-25, which is not precisely YA age range, but it overlaps with the profitable low standard market of romance novels. That's why it is full of relationship drama and has little to no appeal to men. I write what I like. Which means relationships with no drama. There is no need to skip the love subplot. But relationship drama, especially with cheating or love triangles, is destructive to literature.
@DEEPFOXJUDE it was not supposed to. It was a demographic range from about 13-16 years in age. With some overlap with 10-13 in the children demographic and 16-20 in the new adult one. The problem is men, and women under 15, are currently neglected by YA authors. The shift began when Twilight got popular with women ages 15-25 who were given a distorted view on love by media glamorizing toxic relationships. In Asia it is a bit different because the YA target demographic is divided between shounen and shoujo, effectively providing more options by not making the whole demographic into clones of one single, toxic, thing.
@DEEPFOXJUDE it should be good, If I saw other writers as competitors. I see other books as source of inspiration and ways for readers to find more books they like. If they are repelled by one work, they may turn their backs on all.
It's odd that you call The Maze Runner a Hunger Games clone when the protagonist is not a woman and there are no love triangles. Two rules you set for something be a clone. The Maze Runner is just in the same "dystopian world, evil government" genre which The Hunger Games didn't invent.
Well it has a "love triangle". If you go with the "new definition" it has according to YA books. Two characters being into the main character and he has to choose between them. Thomas has Brenda and Teresa. The whole romance is just not played up as much as in hunger games.
if anyone wants a book with a female action hero that later on gets ptsd and substance abuse problems: i can higly recomment sculduggery pleassent. it started of like a book for teenage girls but quickly became very gritty and realistic
Oh, I remember reading the first book. I don’t think I ever went on to read the next, but a factor in that might’ve been that I was very much in my Undertale phase and stuff. But I think it’s due for a reread.
Honestly, this is true to everyone on the political spectrum. I have seen both sides suddenly turning on the establishment as soon as they do something they deem evil or at least unacceptable, no matter how much they agreed on anything.
I'd want to see a Hunger games style movie but without the dreaded PG-13. These movies sanitise the realities of dystopias so much its hilarious. If you want dystopia make it genuinely hard. Not have characters that allegedly grew up in difficult circumstances yet look like underwear models. Not saying to make them malnourished but compare Kurt Russell in Escape from NY to Jennifer Lawrence. Or more recently Tom Hardy in Fury Road. They look like people who know what its like to get punched.
Jennifer Lawrence not losing weight to look underfed was purposeful. She knew that if the movies were successful, the character was bound to be idolized by young girls and she didn't want Katniss to be extremely thin, and chose to focus on her strength and capabilities translating to her body type. It might seem dumb, but I honestly believe it was a good thing. In a world where heroin-chic is a fashionable look, you really can't leave it to young audiences to make the connection that she's supposed to look unhealthy, not runway-ready. Also it's PG-13 because that's literally the target audience 🤷♀️
@@liv97497 we realize that, obviously no one would want an actress to starve themselves for a role. But jlaw is just the wrong body type. Say someone cast Timothee Chalamet for Thor- it doesn’t makes sense. Katniss was short (from malnutrition), a petite actress would have been more convincing to show the harsh environment they were supposed to be living in in D12.
The Peta relationship is pretty interesting, since it could sort of be a commentary on the publisher wanting a love triangle. It was forced in there against Collins’s will, like how the relationship with Peta was forced in against either of the characters’ wills
I think actually Suzanne Collins said she had the romance part already in it, but it was much more subdued compared to the end product. Like her publisher advised her too play it up much more and make it a love triangle, because that was popular with the intended demographic (Twilight having made so much money).
I honestly think the Hunger Games ones are so well put together, especially compared with the other ones. it caries multiple strong themes right to the end.
Aside from a being for a different audience, I also think books that's not so complex is fun to read when you just want to turn your mind off after a hard day. Some days it's just fun to laugh at two boys fighting over a blank slate girl with rebellion as a backdrop.
Suzanne Collins wrote my favorite series, Gregor the Overlander, and I think she’s so much more than the one who kicked off the dystopian genre. Even in hunger games, there are really unique concepts that separate the series from cash grabs
I remember the Testing because that was the book that made me realize "Oh, fuck, this is just the hunger games again" and then I just stopped reading YA fiction
You mentioned Save the Pearls... flashback to when they used blackface for the advertising. I would love to see someone actually dive into the book and go into just how terrible it is because the only reviews I can find have terrible audio.
@@JamesTullos It might not let me add a link so I'll just say this and then add the link. CTV canada and other new sources are the only ones with the image. It is of an actor wearing blackface and in the lower left hand character says "Eden Newman - Mate Rate: 15%". Link attatched bellow. EDIT: Apparently it also used to have a video to go along with it where the character pokes fun at other races and what they do when dating such as calling Coals (black people) freaky among other things.
The book is pretty racist in a weird way...in this black people are the ruling class (they're called coals... yikes) and they oppress the poor white minority called "the pearls" for bullshit fantasy global warming reasons
@@5rcane OH MY GOD now i remember alizee yeezy (or someone in her comment section) mentioned the book in her YA dystopia video. like apparently the "pearls" stood for white people and they were ... oppressed in that society? real wild.
Shout out to karkat_kitsune who I somehow forget is a patron every time, until he reads that name and I'm suddenly having emotional whiplash from the Homestuck memories. Also this was a good video.
Actually, Hunger Games seems to be more in Salt Lake City--in the Capitol, the Rockies block the entrance from the east, and there's a lake to the west. So at any rate, it's on the western slope. Denver doesn't fit that. (Because that's a super important thing to argue about, natch.) It really was sad how few of the clones understood THG at all. I wish they hadn't pushed Collins to have the love triangle--Gale was originally supposed to be Katniss's cousin--but Collins also used the love triangle well thematically, not as "Oo, she gets to choose between two cute boys" but as a choice between rage and love, between never-ending vengeance and peace.
I never really got into Hunger Games, but just before and around when it started to get big I got into Battle Royale. Always bummed me out it never got the attention it deserved as the genre popularized. But I will always love the memory of my teacher coming up to me as I was reading Battle Royale in class and, with the whole class listening, we talked about our strategies for keeping track of the children as they killed each other, much to the shock and horror of my classmates.
The more you talk about typical, traditional dystopias before they became somewhat synonymous with YA fiction, the more I think about Fallout: New Vegas, with the different factions fighting over the Mojave and no matter what you chose, you end up with enemies and dead people, despite the faction you chose having a successful take over.
I remember picking up The Testing in middle school, thinking it might be mildly entertaining. It was kinda fun until it literally just became the hunger games. The characters are entirely interchangeable and I legitimately cannot remember a single thing about the protagonist. Which is sad because the first few tests with the plants were actually pretty creative.
Bruh, i remember reading Enclave as a young kid. I got so worked up by how illogical it was that everyone died by thirty, i stopped reading it. And for y'all who don't know. Human's life spans without modern medicine, technology etc... can easily get to 60-70 years. Judging you don't die from as a child, or from disease. Even in medieval times, people lived much longer than most people assume! So naturally dying by 30 is utterly ridiculous. (My long gone 13 year old self is still salty I guess lol)
Mate, there is a major difference between a medieval peasant who can actually grow crops and have access to natural bounty and a bombed out, I believe irradiated(shaken memory on this part), tunnel society who survive on mushrooms, sewer water, and what ever their hunters can bag
My main way of avoiding the clichés is simply making the characters older. Even though 24 to 28 are technically actual young adults, whereas “YA” somehow already starts at age 16. 😁
As a weaboo I feel that it must needs be remarked that many of these authors were copying Battle Royale and many came out or were well into writing before The Hunger Games. (Battle Royale also had a major impact on the anime scene.) It's just that they went unnoticed by the general public and would never get a movie deal before The Hunger Games. The authors were not plagiarizing or copying like some people say, it was just that the producers started scouring the ocean to snap up IPs into their terrifying jaws what already existed. Blame the studios looking for "what if X but we produced it". Same thing happened after the Lord of the Rings films with the production of Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. The story was around for a long time, but it finally got a movie deal and some press because that studio wanted their own cool fantasy movie to compete with LOTR. Harry Potter and The Golden Compass were likely greenlit because LOTR was so successful too. Like, being greenlit bc a similar IP recently did well doesn't make a book bad. And I really like The Hunger Games for making a badass female main character seem like a bankable idea for movie producers. Katniss is one of the most positive female main characters we've gotten since Xena. That being said, we're not getting such great characters out of these unremarkable copycats. But, why is it that I always hear sneering male voices say "the protagonist is a teenage girl" all the fucking time as if being a teenage girl were wrong in and of itself, when the default is for everything to have a teenage boy protagonist and no one seems so jerky or condescending about that? No one says "Naruto is so overpowered and has no personality and has no combat experience but he's the strongest because of wish fulfilment" which is true, but no one makes that into a serious point of criticism or hates it the way they do with characters like Katniss. It just reeks of misogyny. The backlash against Twilight also had an undercurrent of misogyny, which Lindsay Ellis did a good video about.
Trust me, I don't get the hype about teenage boy MCs either. I'm a little old school, so I like my protagonists, older capable and deeper than the typical teenage angst. I disagree there's a culture war. It's more of a genre elitism.
The first thing I did when I watched more anime was criticize how stupid it was that teenage boys were at the epicenter of the world in every anime ever. So I don't know who you're listening to or if you're just biased against a cultural boys vs. girl conflict, but I'm pretty sure nobody likes how overpowered Naruto is at his age or at all besides the wish fulfillment crowd. I scoff at a pooely-written power fantasy, not at how girls or boys are the main characters.
the denver trope is a combination of two notions - 1) that it is the most elevated city in the US, so thus would be the most resistant against flooding, and 2) stories coming out of the conspiracy subculture involving the alleged "Deep Underground Military Base" at Denver Airport.
I think also what is pretty compelling about katniss is that she cares about her family and prim the most. She did not want to be a figurehead at all but she was forced into the role because she had to survive. I think also what’s an issue w the copy cats is that (granted I haven’t read all of them, I think I’m mostly speaking to divergent) is that the class struggle is a universal struggle since forever, and tris focuses so much on self discovery which is I’m sure why it was so well received at first, as well as it following the hunger games. The system in place even while it has class does not really focus on it, which just ends up feeling more pointless. Tris feels more like the “different” girl who feels stifled by society which seems kinda selfish actually rather than katniss who just wanted what was best for those around her in her district and prim.
That moment when you realize the dystopia you wrote when you were 15 had rebel infighting, a diverse cast of characters, and mostly realistic characters.
@Every Smart Ass Who Wants To Shit On Me Yikes, okay guys, I see that you all are very upset for... some reason. Let me clarify several things. First of all, I never said it was good. The entire point of the comment was that I put more thought into my novel I started at 15 years old than most dystopian 'novels' (I finished it when I was 16). Yes, I was being hyperbolic, but the gist is correct. A major plot point is that the group of rebels had a split and are forced to work together in order to complete their goal, despite their violent past. Also, the rebellion consists of both the poor (who are looking for a better life) and the rich (who are using a government overthrow to benefit themselves) My cast is diverse because I am a diverse person who grew up in a diverse area, so it's only natural my characters reflect my surroundings. And, while my characters suffer from the fact that I was 15, I at least tried to give them personalities. Most of them are morally gray, which is something I did because I hated reading characters who are just 'good people'. They all have things they want and things they hate. I'd say they are 'mostly realistic'. But guess what, I'm in the process of editing! Wow, would you look at that, a writer working to improve their art! Wow! I was making a point that it isn't hard to put a little thought into a dystopian novel. That's all I was saying. However, you all seem to think I'm bragging and 'cringe'. Okay, think what you want. But while you're writing these comments shitting on me and my work, what are you actually doing with your time? Gosh, youtube comments can be super irritating. You see someone succeed and you just want to be angry. I know the value of my work and I know when my work needs to be improved upon, but I shouldn't have to make a disclaimer that my work isn't finished whenever I talk about it. Holy shit, the only 'cringe' here is you guys. Get a life. Also, writing realistic characters does not make it biographic. What are you even talking about?
@@athenagreen5390 lmao bruh letting youtube comments live rent free in your head😂 Your comment came across with a very (and i hate to reference reddit but) r/iamverybadass type vibe,and i put like 5 words and you left an entire essay about how your right and everybody else is a smooth-brain moron and you say WE arent having lives lol. Also imagine not only feeling personally attacked by RUclips comments criticizing you but openly saying it😆
Something this video didn't really bring up that I'd like to expand on: The difference between authoritarianism and totalitarianism, or why these dystopias are so different from "classic" distopias. An authoritarian government usually refers to a government that, either due to personal thirst for power or the desire to achieve some goal, suppresses personal freedoms seen as a threat to their rule. A totalitarian government, on the other hand, is always driven by some ideology, and as such seeks to control all knowledge of the past, or even basic facts of the present and future. For instance, the Nazis taught their racist ideas as fact, which also shows an important part of many totalitarian governments - buttering up a certain group of people, so they don't want to rebel. Now, when you look at, for instance, 1984, it's an obvious totalitarian regime, with the government disappering people, suppressing any source of information outside their propoganda, and even trying to remake language to make it impossible to express dissent. But when you see many of these modern ones, the only fully totalitarian trait you usually see is the government's control over knowledge of the past. For instance, in the Hunger Games, no one knows much about the history of North America pre-75 years ago, and anything since then has been dominated by the Capitol. However, these governments, as pointed out in the video, oppress everyone equally. This doesn't really fall into any real category of ruling style, and keeps the government from using some "us vs them" ideology, like race war (Nazis) or class war (Communists), allowing any resistance to be organized much more easily. In addition, these modern dystopias either don't attempt to, or just suck at, controlling personal thoughts and views. I will give the Hunger Games a pass on this, since they use a show of force, in the form of child murder, to keep people in line, instead of just brainwashing. However, in a lot of these, people just realize in droves that their country sucks, and start a massive organized revolt. In real totalitarian regimes, while there was always some resistance, like the White Rose in Nazi Germany, most people were conditioned into believing that this really was the best they were going to get, such as by the whole German master race thing in Nazi Germany, or by class war and travel bans in the USSR. In short, old dystopias portray totalitarian regimes that only isolated individuals even question, and seem incapable of ever removing. These are usually warnings. These new ones are, as stated, wish fulfilment, and therefore must feature a less totalitarian government so that huge percentages of the population revolt and win easily.
In the Spanish civil war the rebels were the authoritarians and the existing goverment was democratic and had a lot of in-fighting, the opposite of these books.
We have a militarist overthrowing democratic government and becoming a dictator described as the good guy in our history books. Not saying they are right or wrong.
To be fair, Maze Runner was written at almost the same time as Hunger Games, and Legend (in my opinion) was decently unique and had some amazing characters.
I'm pretty sure "The Giver" was from a previous generation of books with dystopian settings. I'm pretty sure it was written a decade or two before the turn of the millennium. The movie was made during the YA dystopia craze and is rather different to the book.
Man, I was really into Maze Runner. I didn't care for the characters or the relationships, but I was dying to see what the fuck was actually going on. The book really draws a kid into the mystery.
Whats funny to me is that these stories like to glorify revolution, yet never show the destabilising and often catastrophic aftermath of them. Libya fell apart after Gaddafi, and Syria has been a battleground for foreign empires for years now. The genocides, mass migrations, ethnic clashes, power grabs and etc are never portrayed. Its always a squeaky clean happy ending where the bad guys are cartoonishly evil and lose. Yeah sure some try to be more realistic but compare that to the Arab Spring and you’ll find that they never get close to brutal enough. The West loves the idea of a Liberal revolution against tyranny, its like their founding mythology, and these stories cater to it, even though everyone outside the West low key knows that such events are always far bloody, far dirtier and far riskier than ever portrayed, and democracy itself isn’t really a goal. Its not exactly like popular opinion actually matters in Western Liberal democracies anyway.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
BOTTOM
TEXT
I've read the first Ship Breaker and I can understand that it's definitely a YA book alright and shares some similarities to other books mentioned here but I'd like to hear your take on the series and it's spin off
Do you think Maze Runner is good?
then why is "BOTTOM" at the top??
Panem truly is a society
@@pizzataph because thats what you are
Ah yes the template of the dystopian novel set in the USA where a brutal regime with a nonsensical government wins a civil war easily but then gets overthrown by teens who have weird love triangles.
Purely absurd tbh.
The parable of the sweer novel isnt bad, i mean without the love triangle.
they cant handle a love triangle, how do they take down a government?
Sea Foam the incel rage empowers them
Wouldn't it be more interesting if we got to read about the rise of the "big bad ruler" so that we can see the fall of... Let's say the United States? It could be from the pov of a high school girl which makes sense since America has high schools and they're not gonna disappear overnight. It also makes adding the love triangle so much easier and not out of place. Best part, doesn't require much imagination. Just have economic recession, race riots, wars, and climate change disasters combined be the cause for some Trump like President to take over with his goons of supposed patriots labeling any violent opposition as "antifa".
It’s pretty insane how the book makes it clear that Katniss and Peeta are playing up their “star crossed lovers” angle for the appeal of the Capitol to pull the rich citizens attention away from the actual horrors of the Hunger Games
Only for the movie to play up the love triangle subplot and end up incidentally being the most memorable parts of the movie rather than the social commentary
@Maurits in the book it ends with peeta realising it was an act cause somehow he just suddenly forgot “oh hey, this is the plan.”. Anyways probably one of my worst reads yet as it was boring, unfulfilling and the whole thing is just fucking dumb.
@@ImNotFine44 i loved it
Oh interesting, didn't realize people felt this way about it! I always felt like the film adaptations handled that particular plot thread pretty well for the most part. In the first movie, it's clear Katniss doesn't truly quite reciprocate Peeta's feelings and sees him as a way to gain sponsors. This causes clear tension between them in the next movie with Katniss only gradually becoming attached to Peeta, just like in the book. Katniss' rationale for what she's doing always seemed to align across the adaptations to me.
hollywood literally became the capitol media in that sense
Sometimes you gotta kiss a guy to get some healing ointment
The thing about the Hunger Games "love triangle" is that it's not just about the "bad boy" vs the "sensitive boy." By the end of the series, it's about what life Katniss wants for herself. Gale represented anger and revenge and constantly fighting back, and Katniss just wanted to escape that and move on. The two men actually represented different parts of her personality and character growth, which a lot of typical love triangles don't.
I saw a post that I really resonated with: “I get that Gale vs Peeta for Katniss was supposed to represent the choice b/w peace & life vs war & death, but did a brown, marginalized, disenfranchised and traumatized boy HAVE to be the metaphor for rage & war & violence? And did a romance & nuclear family with a white boy HAVE to be the metaphor for true peace and happiness?” It never sat right with me the way that Collins twisted Gale’s (valid) anger. At the end of the day, she’s an older white woman and it definitely seems to show by MJ, not just though the love triangle but the way she was criticizing communism through D13
@@somethoughts4363 seems bout right for tumblr
@@JustAsteria58 lol I don’t think it matters where because that’s some facts right there, no matter how uncomfy it makes ppl
@@somethoughts4363 was gale brown ? i thought in the books he was described as olive-skinned but i didn't think that meant brown
@@pissclown yes. He & Katniss (the entire seam as a race) were coded as indigenous(to the americas): signature braid, ‘hunter-gatherer’, knows plants & their healing properties. Katniss distinguishes herself from the white ppl in the book: looks different from Town people like Peeta, Madge, Delly, her mother and sister who are white, blue eyed, blonde. (Looks like her father who is seam) Seam ppl have darker features. Not to mention the systemic class differences, which are supposed to be a reflection of the US’s society. People assume white characters are the standard when reading, but why? I mean, where in the book did it say Katniss was white? It didn’t. White authors like Collins tend to use olive to be ambiguous since it would draw certain readers away to have a non-white hero for once. ESPECIALLY one who challenges and overthrows an oppressive, capitalist system. (Which is why the movie casting sucks- looks like some white lady was leading some type of race war)
I like how in the Hunger Games the Peta relationship was for survival, not romance. The main character didn’t want the relationship either but had to go along so they could get popularity. Love triangles are very common so it was a breath of fresh air
Yeah I agree it was the one love triangle that actually felt earned and realistic.
I also like how the other angle of the love triangle was actually between old friends, even if the "love" itself was dysfunctional. It was nice instead of the meeting during the series and falling instantly, it gave some nice groundwork to their relationship. I also like how each person of the triangle suffered from the issues and events in the book and it bled into the relationships. It makes sense that traumatized people had complicated relationships and emotions about EVERYONE, including the ones they have romantic feelings for.
right? and if katniss ended up by herself, readers wouldn't even get mad bc it's not the main focus unlike the clones
Too bad Suzanne Collins writes the most annoying at least satisfying endings ever
@@n1gtwhisper158 She ended the Hunger Games by having Katniss kill Coin instead of Snow how tf was that not satisfying? Also, if your talking about the ending of Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes the ending might not have been very climatic but it made sense and was still shocking.
Thinking i knew what hunger games ripoffs were, and then James lists like 20 i've never heard of in my life LOL
Ikr, I only knew of like 5-6. I guess iceberg theory applies here, for every one that breaks into my spheres of awareness there's ten more that don't XD
I knew and read about a half dozen of these. The ones that were actually decent. Not masterpieces, but decent.
I've read the matched series, shipbreaker, the divergent series and most of the maze runner books
Time to add those to my reading list and fill in the gaps middle school me forgot
Darkest minds , divergent , and maze runner never heard of the others
Dystopian slowly merged with the YA genre a lot.
Unfortunately true
And effectively ruined it.
Its probably because,look at the world and th lack of hope for the future in newer gneration. It actually makes sense. And dystopia i right, just why have it to have some complicated love triangle, an trappings of romance focus, a young adult without that, would be fine.
@@marocat4749 I thought it was just marketing trends... who knew.
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo A lot of times but not always.
Not even the copyright bots can avert their eyes from the chika dance
Distraction technique, GO!
it's a bit difficult to focus on what's said though. Chika is life.
From which Anime is Chika?
@@farnregen Kaguya-Sama:Love is War
@@pauloazuela8488 Ahh, thanks c:
the way Enclave literally has “For fans of hunger games” written at the top. these clones have no shame 🤦♀️ but if it pays the bills 🤷♀️
@DEEPFOXJUDE it was a book
The manga was released later
And there is a lot of elements from the Handmaid's tale too
@DEEPFOXJUDE okay?
@DEEPFOXJUDE ok
@DEEPFOXJUDE noted
@@tuopsy He's highlighting the hypocrisy of condemning these books for "cloning" another series when the series you apparently thought was completely original was actually a "clone" itself.
Clone is in quotes because anyone who knows how stories work, knows that every story is taking something, usually alot of things from another older story. Good writing is about reintroducing tropes in new situations and for new purposes, not making new tropes entirely.
Why do they all wear their father's old hunting jacket? I've seen that one at least 3 times now. Like once is fine but 3 times? What?
Because society
Jacket is pretty cozy
for HONOR
It represents first of all the traditional, pioneering survivalist aesthetic (very American) which is related to revolutions, and secondly, a reference to how back in the day there was freedom that the new generation wants to inherit. See it as a sort of, inheritance of that wildness/independence that's necessary for freedom.
Also, often it can be used as an allusion to the hunter and the hunted, as in, the dystopian government and the libertarian teens
It's also a symbol of the death of the free people (hunting is often a sign of freedom, because there is no government that has to restrict hunting to stop animal extinction for example), that tried to fight back against the government, but were eliminated, which is the explanation of why the people who are still alive and now oppressed are always so weak, but the ones who inherit the jacket have rekindled the flame. I think it's a good symbol actually.
@@LC-pr5or Well....thanks
At the very least in Hunger Games, Katniss was more meant to be a symbol to the rebels than anything else.
Yeah she was being used more than anything. She didnt want to be their mockingjay, but had no choice due to the circumstances. Something the copies tend to overlook
Right? The point of her character was to show that she was only fighting against the Capitol in order to avenge her hometown, and protect her own immediate loved ones; not really for society at large. Even in the end, when she goes on her rash assassination trip in Mockingjay, Collins realistically makes sure to have her solo plan fail and the organized rebel plan to succeed.
in the third book they were literally "hey just stand here, be pretty, wave the flag and say your lines, you dont have to do much"
Yeah she isn't fully aligned with the rebels cause, it makes her more realistic and grounded
i didn’t even realize that the cover of Enclave said “for the fans of The Hunger Games”
Also made me realize that the actual book Enclave could be totally cut out of the story and nothing would really change. The story truly started with the second book.
@@robertgronewold3326 worth reading?
@@conormeehan. If you're interested in a teenage girl killing mutants in a wasted New York, go for it.
Matched mentions a love triangle right on the cover. 🤦♂️
@@robertgronewold3326 said
Something that gets me is that these dystopias always exist in isolation, there's no 3rd country secretly funding the rebels ala the revolutionary war in america.
Also 1984 was warning of 'don't let this happen!' rather than a 'take down the system!' story.
Yeah, there’s a reason Orwell ended 1984 with the main character being tortured and everything sucking. If we do fall into a 1984 reality, we are going to have to hope that a Hunger Games style insurrection happens, because the main message of that story is: “Well, if this happens, we’re not getting out of it.”
Also, yeah, they never really go into other countries in these dystopia stories. It’s like… what’s up in Russia? You couldn’t elaborate or does the writer seem to think the USA is the entire world? Outside of that Total Recall remake, I don’t think I’ve ever scene a dystopian movie or book set in the ruins of the UK.
Is no one funding these rebels?
I personally really want to write a dystopia about multiple countries, but I suck at writing, anyways there are dystopias which deal with countries outside the dystopia.
Most people don't know that rebellions don't succeed without outside help.
Sidenote but it always kills me when conservatives go on about "HAVING TO CALL PEOPLE BY THEIR PREFERRED PRONOUNS IS BASICALLY 1984" when Orwell was a total leftist and an incredibly outspoken DemSoc. The speed at which he rolls in his grave should be harnessed to power the entire United States
@@SuperNuclearUnicorn yeah, that’s weird. The problem with stories like 1984 is the main politics of the world aren’t always clearly defined (just general authoritarianism from what I’ve heard) and that leads to many people saying how such and such is Orwellian. Like, “Tesco not saying Christmas as much is so Orwellian.” That literally happened, Paul Joseph Watson didn’t say exactly that, but he used those words.
Granted, I’m absolute trash who eats up these YA novels like they’re popcorn, but I will die defending Hunger Games as a series with legitimate literary merit.
Same, I love the Hunger Games books, although I don't like how the movie seems to of missed the point though and so took away Katniss's personality.
Favourite part has to be when Peta and Gale talk about how they think Katniss will date whomever she thinks is better for survival, you want to get mad at them but then realize given what's happened what else would they think?
*Chef's kiss* art
If you like these clones, from the ones the video mentioned I recommend Shatter Me. I read it just when it came out though, so like...what 10-12 years ago? So I probably wouldn't call it good if I read it now (especially since I developed a primal and rabid hatred for all things YA, apologies), but I know that I REALLY liked it when I read it back then, and it actually got me into writing along with Firelight (not a clone by my standards, it's a urban fantasy about a girl who's half dragon, they're called drakie in my language but I suppose they're something else in English, like her whole race are half dragons, and she wants to like interact with humans or whatever and at one point a guy sees her transform so her whole family is exiled from the dragon village, etc. The trilogy was decent, hated the fourth book.) so I recommend it.
@DEEPFOXJUDE lol no. People who say this are people who haven’t read the books etc
@DEEPFOXJUDE
People always compare The Hunger Games to Battle Royal, but both of them are heavily inspired by The Most Dangerous Game. I haven’t read the book BR is based off of, but THG series touches on a lot of the same social commentary found in The Most Dangerous Game.
@@daniellecalderwood4626 Suzanne Collins said she got inspiration from the ancient Greek myth where the King of a kingdom that conquered and now controlled a smaller kingdom demanded seven young guys and seven youngs girls to be sent from said kingdom for an annual event where they where put in the Labyrinth and forced to fight the Minotaur for the entertainment of the controlling kingdom. Most Dangerous Game does make sense though,
8:21 At least in The Hunger Games, some effort was done into this. Some districts are tested better than others, while some (like 1 and 2) actively support the Capitol as they benefit from it too. Even within districts some people are better of, like how the Merchant class in 12 have it much better than others. District 12 seems to be some form of scapegoat IMO. Their population is tiny (ten thousand in a country of millions) and rely on an industry that’s not even needed (district 5 produces the power, so coal is barely needed), so the Capitol could be using them as an example of “look how terrible it is there, be happy with what you’ve got”.
Plus Hunger Games was never meant to be a "morally bad, but otherwise functioning"-world to begin with. The setup leads to the conclusion from minute one
I mean there's also some systemic racism (see district 11) but it seems to be... I think the best way to describe it is liberal. This is accentuated even harder in the prequel, where Katniss' analogue is all but explicitely called Romani and actually explains how the capitol displaced her people and their way of living, and a character that is constantly belittled (along with his mother), although the stated reason is that he was born in the districts, is black-coded. And yet Snow almost seems to purposefully avoid describing any distinguishing features in his inner monologue. It's like, yeah no one is EXPLICITELY racist or homophobic or sexist... but yes the govermment is 99% old white cishet dudes.
On a completely unrelated note, did you see ICE's post for pride month?
An interesting fact is that Suzanne Collins wanted to change the focus more to the rebellion in the Hunger Games, but her editor didn't allow it since most of their audience were prepubescent or teenage girls that read it for the romance. So she had to develop a plot that wasn't interested in making.
@@valterfara5027 Something that seemed to have happened again with her book on Snow
:(
The Hunger Games is such a unique and well-told story (savor the flaws) so it's a shame that the author was forced to focus on the character's relationships more than the characters themselves. I always wondered how The Hunger Games would of played out if the books were Adult Fiction instesd of Young Adult. Bet the books would of been a lot darker (which is saying a lot seeing just how dark the series is already)
@@valterfara5027 I was a teenager when it came out, gotta say, I was not interested in the romance. I liked the friendships and other relationships but I cared about as much as Katniss about the love stuff. To this day I want my comrades to adopt the 3 fingers on lips, raise arm thing. But Iike the fist too, and it's much better as a drawing.
I hated Matched for that love triangle. I haven’t read it since middle school almost a decade ago, so I don’t recall much, but I remember being pissed that there even was a love triangle. This girl was matched with her childhood best friend, and it was clear they both loved each other in the way only naive teenagers do, and yet she decided to fall for the outcast because..? He was mysterious? That just seemed incredibly selfish of her when both she and her matched partner seemed to be so excited to be together before. I might be remembering it wrong, but I’m still upset either way lol I wasted so much of my time reading those books.
honestly, I remember it the exact same way
I bet the publisher insisted on this love triangle. I don't know why authors comply, maybe it's contractual, but at this point it would be better to self publish.
The love triangle is stupid AND AND it turns out a third party attracted to the childhood friend manipulated things so that the main girl fell in love with the bad boy outcast. Why? The third party, another girl, was in love with the childhood friend despite barely knowing him. AND NOBODY CALLED THE THIRD PARTY OUT ON THIS. I stopped reading the second book because of this shitty plot twist
@@DieNibelungenliad eh I think in Matched, it was an authors choice. The whole trilogy is basically about the love triangle (even tho everyone knows she’ll pick Kai) and the second book is largely in Kai’s perspective as he walks through a desert
Wasnt the twist in the third book that the girl was called to match people for the government and created the love triangle herself to oppose the very very very controlling government? She forgot because the government forced the people that matched to eat a forget pill?
Publisher: "Your main character must be a girl!"
Maze Runner: "Am I a joke to you?"
I was thinking that the whole video!
@MX 3 They were not as good, yea.
Can't believe this is the only comment about it I've seen until now
@MX 3 i think the prequels were the best ones honestly. I might just be a sucker for character studies and worldbuilding, but those books resonated with me more than the main trilogy
@MX 3 is it still worth reading?
I disagree with your point on rebel infighting in respect to the hunger games. Throughout Mockingjay, katniss learns how truly conniving and manipulative President Coin is, as well as the many people inside of her military that Katniss can’t trust. This all leads to Katniss killing Coin out of fear that she would simply lead them into another cycle of Districts vs Capitol. It’s not as complex as I’m sure other media does it, but considering the mental state of Katniss throughout the entirety of the book, I think it can be somewhat excused as her PTSD is also a focal point.
I'm pretty sure that The Hunger Games is excluded from most of these categories. He's probably talking about the clones that decided to ignore the infighting.
She and Gale also clash a LOT about their methods - Katniss is mostly focused on taking down the Capitol, whereas Gale isn’t opposed to killing civilians (or even committing war crimes like bombing medics) if he feels it’s necessary
@@AliceClow katniss wants the capitol gone, gale wants the capitol to suffer. That's testosterone, folks!
@@exothermic1942Look up Princess Olga of Kiev and then come back saying unnecessary cruelty is due to too much testosterone
@@somebodyuknow2507you expect these people to listen to reason
"Hunger Games clones and how they work"
They don't
And hunger games doesn’t work either cuz it’s a ripoff of battle royale
@@divergentxmen283 Battle Royale is a genre, not something you can rip off
@@lucky-plank1995 do u even know what battle royale is? It was a movie made in 2000 and a book made in 1999
@@divergentxmen283Oh, I thought you were talking about the genre
@@lucky-plank1995 why would I be talking about the genre that battle royale (the movie/book/manga) started in the first place?
Y'all talking about YA girls fitting in their dad's jacket but nobody ever talks about why Dante still fits in his mom's jacket after 40 years.
Whitch Dante?
@Sh!nx ....The writer of Dante's inferno?
@@stevemclovin1566 the Mii fighter dude
@@hairglowingkyle4572 Too soon man, too soon.
I legit want to see realistic and dynamic political and cultural interaction. It's super interesting to me to learn how a city like Venice became the trade and economic powerhouse due to its location and relations with other Italian cities.
Not a YA, but if you want a great... I guess "urban fantasy" or even better, "alternate timeline fantasy" series that focuses on politics and culture, read "The Divine Cities" by Robert Jackson Bennett. It's three books but I don't wanna call it a trilogy since each book has a seperate story simply set in the same world and sharing some characters.
In short, the Continent was once a home of several god-like entities who ruled and protected the people and enabled them to use miracles and magic in their everyday lives and become the most powerful, near-invincible empire. But then the nation of Saypur, who was enslaved by Continent and living in terrible conditions, found a way to kill the gods. Most of the miracles disappeared with them, and now Saypur rules over the Continent and tries to create some semblance of peace - which is tough, considering the Continentals hate them and still see them as inferior beings.
In the first book, we meet the main trio - Shara, a saypurian spy who's sent to the Continent's capital city, Bulikov, to investigate something that seems like a newly emerging cult that wants the divine regime back. Sigrud, her loyal but pretty scary bodyguard from the neutral nothern islands of Dreyland. And Turyin, a tough war veteran woman who's job is to lead the saypurian military forces in the city and keep the peace.
I cannot stress enough how absolutely AMAZING the series is. It's mature, has complicated and engaging plot that respects the readers intelligence, the characters are all interesting and flawed and believeable, and everything is morally grey. We see the story mostly from the perspective of once-slaves who've managed to overthrow their oppressors,only to basically become the new oppressors (though they are much, much less cruel). There's tension, mystery, sometimes it feels almost like some supernatural detective story, other times it's packed with action. The author has incredible imagination and so the miracles and the magical beings that exist there are something we've never seen before. The world is dark and gritty and in places feels almost post-apocalyptic, since after the gods died, all major cities were wrecked (because some building were literally created with magic materials - and when that stopped existing...). Bulikov feels like the dirtiest, darkest version of late 19th century New York or something. Speaking of, the author is american, but in the fictional world he created, all of Continent has somewhat russian-sounding names, Dreyland is obviously supposed to be a pseudo-nordic state, and Saypur seems to be based on... India? Indonesia? Malaysia? Anyway, it's really just a breath of fresh air.
Edit: Wow. I didn't realize how LONG the comment was, I'm sorry. :D
Nicollo Machiavelli has entered the chat.
Just read Herbert's Dune then
Yeah, but cities like Venice rise over the course of generations. It's hard to write a compelling story when your characters die of old age anticlimactically every few chapters/books
@@Eris_Norregard it smells like Brandon Sanderson, and thats never bad, will take a look
Fans of the hunger games will reluctantly settle for:
Detergent
Will young adult woman survive in a world where bad government decides what kind of soap you use?
Yes she will and she’ll be stunning and brave in the process
No joke I’m actually writing a dystopian novel where the government chooses what soap you use (among other things)
@@c.julietofcampjupiter8557 If applicable, include a scene where the oppressive government threatens to (or does) dissolve someone in lye
@@c.julietofcampjupiter8557 oh, I would definitely read that. Also, your username is wonderful.
But don’t forget! She can use multiple types of soap, which has never happened before. She must hide this fact because she is in danger.
@@luuuuux_ Thank you-I am still writing it but as soon as I get somewhere with it I’ll make sure to let you know. Yes, I got my username from a brief experience on Reddit. There’s someone else on there going by CJ now but I used to be CJ of Camp Jupiter, complete with exchanges comb that acted like Riptide. I love the Riordan books
This has strong "Terrible Writing Advice" energy to it
I think that’s the point. A sort of “do not do ig” checklist
A LOVE TRIANGLE!
I believe one of the reasons these books and a lot of YA fiction get popular in general is that it is one of the few categories of book media where teen aged girls and young women are the default protagonist and get to have strong powers and (hopefully) personalities. While there are a lot of mediocre ones with little depth, and bare minimum quality, we should just remember that there’s mediocre books and copy cats in every genre and make sure to not just hate only on the one populated by teen girls
i was just going to comment that
Sturgeon's law.
90% of fantasy is Gary Stu self-inserts who go on adventures on generic fantasy land and get a harem, save damsels and slay dragons.
Do you know why nobody really criticizes them nowadays? Because they're not popular anymore. But don't be fooled. In the early 2000s they were the go-to punching bag for literary critics, and that really didn't have anything to do with the demographics of the audience of those books... Teen boys.
Today is no different. 90% of YA dystopian fiction is just bad and criticized because they copy the popular thing.
The main problem I have with the type is simply because I love the distopia books but I sat for hours looking for one male protagonist just for a change of pace but no nothing
@@brycewilliams1042 I suggest reading "Monument 14". It has a few things listed in the video but still very good
@@brycewilliams1042
Maze runner?
From the young world (or whats it called?)
I think there are a few. Though I don't guarantee they're good.
To be fair Maze Runner books were released pretty much simultaneously with the Hunger Games ones, just an observation. Loved the video!
"Anime girl is for copyright evasion" sure james.
2 things:
-I forgot how dark THG saga ending is, where Katniss imagines her children playing over the bodies of everyone who died in the war buried there, and she just says "but there are worse games to play". As a 14 yo boy that gave me the chills.
-Look how cool, stylish and full of symbolism THG covers' are, and compare them to the ugly af copycat covers lol
“Make the girl beautiful but humble about it and have her be pursued by multiple hot guys who’d do anything for her, ya know, *relatable* “
This reminds me of the time I wrote a Hunger Games clone by accident. Not only was I not even trying, I wasn't even *writing* - I was just playing PUBG and flirting with another player.
I kinda want to see a Hunger Games clone with the rebel groups getting into conflict with each other since it would be interesting to see how they manage that dynamic
Would also be a lot more realistic, looking at actual revolutions that's exactly what usually happens.
@@sleepysera And more interesting too, especially since you could both have evil rebels out for themselves as well as a group of paragon-good rebels just by have them being different factions.
Obviously, the good guys would stick with the protagonist. And the reason for them being good guys would be sticking with the protagonist. Don't they dare show any nuance in those stories.
And you could make it Game of Thrones style where you can have protagonists from multiple factions
You should read the testing
"The most important part is the love triangle"
Terrible Writing Advice has entered the chat
It's always the love triangle.
I can't see or think of love triangles without hearing his voice
@@cybergrape2077 everywhere i go, i see his face
_insert lol.jpeg_
Of the clones, I'd say that the only ones listed that were for the most part decent were Legend and the Maze Runner. Though I forgive Legend for having some ridiculous aspects to it, because as an author myself, sometimes you just like the cool factor in a world, even if that does include a retractable dome over Denver. lol
But it's better if they come up with a credible explanation for it even if that means inventing some tech to justify it so that the world becomes coherent, but I can look over that too. Congrats on being an author!
I remember where they took the The Giver book and changed the plot in the movie to fit this kind of trend. It obviously didn't work.
Maze Runner was great. The sequels were absolutely not.
@@valterfara5027 god I hated the movie for that
I do have to say that the darkest minds is also decent. Some of these are good series just put under the umbrella of YA dystopian, and isn't the maze runner got a Male protagonist?
A lot of dystopias for some reason: Imagine a world where people in love can’t be together
Honestly all these dystopian stories where love is restricted don't hold a candle against real life
The "love jihad" conspiracy theory proves that life is stranger than fiction
@@christianweibrecht6555 the love jihad conspiracy?
@@LyionOfRoses Hindu nationalists are convinced that India's Muslim population is collaborating on a grand project to increase its share of the population by seducing marrying and converting Hindu ladies en masse
@@christianweibrecht6555 man this is pretty funny real life just be crazy like that
Most ME countries for that matter
My guess for why Denver is because a lot of emergency military/government infrastructure is built around the Rocky Mountains. NORAD, Emergency Bunkers, and maybe even potential plans to relocate the capital to the area if I remember correctly. It's also one of the biggest cities in the middle of the country. I don't know, those are random guesses. It is an odd coincidence.
Or all these authors play an even more unhealthy amount of Kaiserreich than me
If it's a main city in Colorado then the various dams (Hoover etc) would probably play into it as well. New Vegas the Fallout game is pretty much control the water control the people and given half of these are post eco-apocalypse any major city remotely near major water sources would be valuable
@@maiaberryman4985 The dams are a great point, that hadn't even occurred to me. A number of the areas around Colorado are desert or semiarid which only adds to the necessity.
@@LinuxGamersArchives lol imagine if all these authors were secret Kaiserreich fans
You mentioned one of the best things about the Hunger Games: no real happy ending. In a way, it's a happy ending with Katniss and Peeta having a family and hope for a better government. But the ending isn't without real pain and struggle. Katniss lost her entire family. Her love for Peeta is more admiration for his ethics than it is passionate love. The new government hasn't been established which means all the factions are still fighting.
Katniss is a mess of skin grafts after the explosion too, the movies didn't show that.
@@CamJamesthe movies didnt even show that Peeta lost his leg in the first games/has a prosthetic leg throughout the series
Aight. Before my parents are executed,
Does anyone wanna admit they got a love triangle on me? 😤😤👌
@DEEPFOXJUDE the love dodecahedron
mfw I just took down a dystopian government but still don't get a love interest
what a fucking rip off
@@bettysbois1919 why don't more books have a love dodecahedron? Love triangles are so boring and 2d
Right? I crave a book where instead of having to choose one out of two or (rarely) three, they just work out a healthy poly because they all care about each other. I just desperately want a poly romance book that’s not JUST romance, you know?
I just want a book where the entire country is a giant love triangle
This year in English class my English teacher gave us a list of Dystopian novels to choose from that we could read. Some of the ones on the list where ones you mentioned (Delirium, Maze Runner, etc.) and others were the really well known dystopia novels (Hunger Games, Divergent, The Selection).
I ended up going with a book called Steelheart, which is a book about a rebel group working to take down Tyrannical Superheroes. I thought it was a good book, it had a romance subplot but it wasn't a love triangle (thank god) and it didn't overshadow the main plot. The rebel group wasn't just a bunch of teenagers with the power of friendship and plot armor, which seems like it's a rare thing in the genre.
I don't know if Steelheart is particularly special in terms of Dystopian novels, but it seems like it deviates more from the formula than other books do. Then again, I really only hear about novel plots through videos so what do I know lol.
You might want to try Mistborn by the same author. It's pretty similar in many ways.
You should initiate the Cosmere books. Brandon is a really good author, Mistborn is a nice start.
Brandon Sanderson dude... this guy can write
The author of Steelheart is one of the great writers in sci-fi and fantasy. Brandon Sanderson is special.
@@waterbarron7540 Man finished Wheel of Goddamn Time, he is top-tier
The first half made me realize my story idea is basicaly hunger games. But the second half made me realize my worldbuilding is pretty good.
We reside within a *civilization*
Quality comment
Arise, o performers of The Leisure!
WE LIVE IN A DYSTOPIA
Ahem. Is this mic on? Yeah? Okay, then, here I go.
*We live in a society.*
I thought the first Maze Runner book was decent. And didn't it come out before Hunger Games?
Eh, it wasn't a series worth arguing about, no matter how decent the first book was.
Right? But I think the whole movie thing with the maze runner being after the hunger games made it a clone. Because a lot of people (at least who I know) dont know that the maze runner was first. I cant say which is better in my opinion but I do like Thomas more than Katniss as a main character
First was decent, but god, was Scorch Trials weird
@@ImperialFister everything past the initial premise kinda sucked poopy pants yep, but Maze Runner was pretty cool
The problem of maze runner is because running on mazes is cool, but they don't run on any mazes after the first book
first book was a bit cliche but good, from 2nd book on it went into *HELL*
You NEVER have to justify the inclusion of Chika Fujiwara
The fact there's so many hunger games clones says a lot about the Society in which we live.
Mm yes a society we do live in, yes, quite.
And The fact that hunger games is also a clone of battle royale-
@@divergentxmen283 All these things are just clones upon clones!
@@fraydizs7302 BOTTOM
TEXT!
@@indumatipngtuber2790 battle royale isn’t a clone of something it’s original
I didn't know that they forced the love triangel into hunger games! That makes so much sense! I really didn't like any of it
It is often forced. That's a good reason to go indie.
Probably wanted to bank off that fresh Twilight money
@DEEPFOXJUDE YA is not really a genre. It is a target demographic.
The problem is the mainsream YA books are not even what the target demographic really likes, or needs.
YA is currently centered in appealing to women ages 15-25, which is not precisely YA age range, but it overlaps with the profitable low standard market of romance novels.
That's why it is full of relationship drama and has little to no appeal to men.
I write what I like. Which means relationships with no drama. There is no need to skip the love subplot. But relationship drama, especially with cheating or love triangles, is destructive to literature.
@DEEPFOXJUDE it was not supposed to.
It was a demographic range from about 13-16 years in age. With some overlap with 10-13 in the children demographic and 16-20 in the new adult one.
The problem is men, and women under 15, are currently neglected by YA authors.
The shift began when Twilight got popular with women ages 15-25 who were given a distorted view on love by media glamorizing toxic relationships.
In Asia it is a bit different because the YA target demographic is divided between shounen and shoujo, effectively providing more options by not making the whole demographic into clones of one single, toxic, thing.
@DEEPFOXJUDE it should be good, If I saw other writers as competitors.
I see other books as source of inspiration and ways for readers to find more books they like.
If they are repelled by one work, they may turn their backs on all.
It's odd that you call The Maze Runner a Hunger Games clone when the protagonist is not a woman and there are no love triangles. Two rules you set for something be a clone. The Maze Runner is just in the same "dystopian world, evil government" genre which The Hunger Games didn't invent.
Well it has a "love triangle". If you go with the "new definition" it has according to YA books.
Two characters being into the main character and he has to choose between them.
Thomas has Brenda and Teresa.
The whole romance is just not played up as much as in hunger games.
It's definitely not a clone. Maze Runner and Hunger Games were published both in 2009
@@felipebritto9554both are ripoffs of the running man
if anyone wants a book with a female action hero that later on gets ptsd and substance abuse problems: i can higly recomment sculduggery pleassent. it started of like a book for teenage girls but quickly became very gritty and realistic
Absolutely agree! I was thinking of Skulduggery Pleasant as soon as I started reading your comment. A truly excellent series
Cannot agree more. An excellent exploration of morality and the role of violence in our society as well.
Oh, I remember reading the first book. I don’t think I ever went on to read the next, but a factor in that might’ve been that I was very much in my Undertale phase and stuff. But I think it’s due for a reread.
Why would someone read That? Sounds morbid.
@@tubeguy4066 It certainly does get morbid.
"Denver, not full of zombies"
I would think a contagious disease would definitely reach a major air travel hub for multiple airlines pretty quick...
The most notable Hunger Games clone is definitely the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy.
holy fuck why didn't i notice that
And surprisingly, not even as bad as divergent
But they dont go to Denvers 🤔
@@GOOMI_GOOMI No, instead they go to Tatooine like in every trilogy in the franchise. Ever.
oof
"Only hating the establishment when they do something to hurt her personally." The epic of the conservative warcry
The epic of media journalists
Honestly, this is true to everyone on the political spectrum. I have seen both sides suddenly turning on the establishment as soon as they do something they deem evil or at least unacceptable, no matter how much they agreed on anything.
Amen
@@quma2590 lol both sides
@@t.mutabilis2497
Did I say something wrong?
I'd want to see a Hunger games style movie but without the dreaded PG-13. These movies sanitise the realities of dystopias so much its hilarious. If you want dystopia make it genuinely hard. Not have characters that allegedly grew up in difficult circumstances yet look like underwear models. Not saying to make them malnourished but compare Kurt Russell in Escape from NY to Jennifer Lawrence. Or more recently Tom Hardy in Fury Road. They look like people who know what its like to get punched.
YES. Jlaw was sorely miscast- wrong race, etc. Also Hollywood could never criticize Capitalism smh.
@@Kazenikatze heartykek
Jennifer Lawrence not losing weight to look underfed was purposeful. She knew that if the movies were successful, the character was bound to be idolized by young girls and she didn't want Katniss to be extremely thin, and chose to focus on her strength and capabilities translating to her body type. It might seem dumb, but I honestly believe it was a good thing. In a world where heroin-chic is a fashionable look, you really can't leave it to young audiences to make the connection that she's supposed to look unhealthy, not runway-ready.
Also it's PG-13 because that's literally the target audience 🤷♀️
@@liv97497 we realize that, obviously no one would want an actress to starve themselves for a role. But jlaw is just the wrong body type. Say someone cast Timothee Chalamet for Thor- it doesn’t makes sense. Katniss was short (from malnutrition), a petite actress would have been more convincing to show the harsh environment they were supposed to be living in in D12.
@@rogue7161 wow u didn’t read the book. I’m thinking, like, any book.
The Peta relationship is pretty interesting, since it could sort of be a commentary on the publisher wanting a love triangle. It was forced in there against Collins’s will, like how the relationship with Peta was forced in against either of the characters’ wills
I think actually Suzanne Collins said she had the romance part already in it, but it was much more subdued compared to the end product.
Like her publisher advised her too play it up much more and make it a love triangle, because that was popular with the intended demographic (Twilight having made so much money).
Being a not American makes me think Denver is a magic place
“Some go even longer…”
Wheel of Time
“Like Animorphs”
Oh yeah that too
@Jay-Moon I read the first one and it wasn’t for me. I know a lot of people are into them
Half a minute in, and I already learned about many titles I was happy without knowing. And then Fujiwara popped up. A wild ride.
"She'll want to wear her father's jacket. Luckily he was her size" Damn double homicide
And to think we wouldn't have all of these titles without Battle Royale.
Battle Royale is so good.
@@gintuner4371 it’s okay
Not really, Suzanne never heard of BR when she got inspired to write HG.
I honestly think the Hunger Games ones are so well put together, especially compared with the other ones. it caries multiple strong themes right to the end.
Aside from a being for a different audience, I also think books that's not so complex is fun to read when you just want to turn your mind off after a hard day. Some days it's just fun to laugh at two boys fighting over a blank slate girl with rebellion as a backdrop.
Suzanne Collins wrote my favorite series, Gregor the Overlander, and I think she’s so much more than the one who kicked off the dystopian genre. Even in hunger games, there are really unique concepts that separate the series from cash grabs
I also love how it's always set on the US for some reason
because 'murica
I remember the Testing because that was the book that made me realize "Oh, fuck, this is just the hunger games again" and then I just stopped reading YA fiction
Same, I got into Fantasy and Murder Mysteries
the best part of the hunger games for me was definitely the third book when everything gets weird. i loved that part.
wdym "gets weird"?
@@ronnierad-365 I assume when Katniss and the Star Squad enter the Capitol
@@ronnierad-365 I think he meant "everything gets even more depressing than it already was"
that book had such a huge impact on me from how realistic it was, and how much it subverted all the popular "YA dystopian" tropes!
You mentioned Save the Pearls... flashback to when they used blackface for the advertising. I would love to see someone actually dive into the book and go into just how terrible it is because the only reviews I can find have terrible audio.
> flashback to when they used blackface for the advertising
I'm sorry, what?
@@JamesTullos It might not let me add a link so I'll just say this and then add the link. CTV canada and other new sources are the only ones with the image. It is of an actor wearing blackface and in the lower left hand character says "Eden Newman - Mate Rate: 15%". Link attatched bellow.
EDIT: Apparently it also used to have a video to go along with it where the character pokes fun at other races and what they do when dating such as calling Coals (black people) freaky among other things.
The book is pretty racist in a weird way...in this black people are the ruling class (they're called coals... yikes) and they oppress the poor white minority called "the pearls" for bullshit fantasy global warming reasons
@@5rcane OH MY GOD now i remember alizee yeezy (or someone in her comment section) mentioned the book in her YA dystopia video. like apparently the "pearls" stood for white people and they were ... oppressed in that society? real wild.
Aka r@sct furryporn?
I actually haven't read or seen these, I'm just here for the anticapitalist rant
Anti military industrial complex as well
@@cryptikkcries gowernment bad, money make people do bad bad tings sumtimes so is bad
The alternatives are a lot more authoritarian.
@Sergio Leonardo Cornejo
Not all alternative's.
@@hackE444 which doesn't? Redistribution of wealth demands coercion.
Do the love triangles ever end in a polycule?
PS, The Giver deserved better.
Shout out to karkat_kitsune who I somehow forget is a patron every time, until he reads that name and I'm suddenly having emotional whiplash from the Homestuck memories.
Also this was a good video.
Actually, Hunger Games seems to be more in Salt Lake City--in the Capitol, the Rockies block the entrance from the east, and there's a lake to the west. So at any rate, it's on the western slope. Denver doesn't fit that. (Because that's a super important thing to argue about, natch.)
It really was sad how few of the clones understood THG at all. I wish they hadn't pushed Collins to have the love triangle--Gale was originally supposed to be Katniss's cousin--but Collins also used the love triangle well thematically, not as "Oo, she gets to choose between two cute boys" but as a choice between rage and love, between never-ending vengeance and peace.
I never really got into Hunger Games, but just before and around when it started to get big I got into Battle Royale. Always bummed me out it never got the attention it deserved as the genre popularized. But I will always love the memory of my teacher coming up to me as I was reading Battle Royale in class and, with the whole class listening, we talked about our strategies for keeping track of the children as they killed each other, much to the shock and horror of my classmates.
Same for the Minecraft Hunger Games, which was the original battle royale game.
The more you talk about typical, traditional dystopias before they became somewhat synonymous with YA fiction, the more I think about Fallout: New Vegas, with the different factions fighting over the Mojave and no matter what you chose, you end up with enemies and dead people, despite the faction you chose having a successful take over.
I never thought of the Maze Runner as a Hunger Games clone
The funniest stuff I found about this story's that's how they forget that 99% of successful arm revolutions just didn't change any thing/mad it worst
Karl Marx would beg to differ
I remember picking up The Testing in middle school, thinking it might be mildly entertaining. It was kinda fun until it literally just became the hunger games. The characters are entirely interchangeable and I legitimately cannot remember a single thing about the protagonist. Which is sad because the first few tests with the plants were actually pretty creative.
Bruh, i remember reading Enclave as a young kid. I got so worked up by how illogical it was that everyone died by thirty, i stopped reading it.
And for y'all who don't know. Human's life spans without modern medicine, technology etc... can easily get to 60-70 years. Judging you don't die from as a child, or from disease. Even in medieval times, people lived much longer than most people assume!
So naturally dying by 30 is utterly ridiculous. (My long gone 13 year old self is still salty I guess lol)
Mate, there is a major difference between a medieval peasant who can actually grow crops and have access to natural bounty and a bombed out, I believe irradiated(shaken memory on this part), tunnel society who survive on mushrooms, sewer water, and what ever their hunters can bag
My main way of avoiding the clichés is simply making the characters older. Even though 24 to 28 are technically actual young adults, whereas “YA” somehow already starts at age 16. 😁
As a weaboo I feel that it must needs be remarked that many of these authors were copying Battle Royale and many came out or were well into writing before The Hunger Games. (Battle Royale also had a major impact on the anime scene.) It's just that they went unnoticed by the general public and would never get a movie deal before The Hunger Games. The authors were not plagiarizing or copying like some people say, it was just that the producers started scouring the ocean to snap up IPs into their terrifying jaws what already existed. Blame the studios looking for "what if X but we produced it". Same thing happened after the Lord of the Rings films with the production of Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. The story was around for a long time, but it finally got a movie deal and some press because that studio wanted their own cool fantasy movie to compete with LOTR. Harry Potter and The Golden Compass were likely greenlit because LOTR was so successful too. Like, being greenlit bc a similar IP recently did well doesn't make a book bad.
And I really like The Hunger Games for making a badass female main character seem like a bankable idea for movie producers. Katniss is one of the most positive female main characters we've gotten since Xena. That being said, we're not getting such great characters out of these unremarkable copycats. But, why is it that I always hear sneering male voices say "the protagonist is a teenage girl" all the fucking time as if being a teenage girl were wrong in and of itself, when the default is for everything to have a teenage boy protagonist and no one seems so jerky or condescending about that? No one says "Naruto is so overpowered and has no personality and has no combat experience but he's the strongest because of wish fulfilment" which is true, but no one makes that into a serious point of criticism or hates it the way they do with characters like Katniss. It just reeks of misogyny. The backlash against Twilight also had an undercurrent of misogyny, which Lindsay Ellis did a good video about.
@DEEPFOXJUDE to be fair in most cases these characters are just terrible and many people do Bitch about narotu
Trust me, I don't get the hype about teenage boy MCs either. I'm a little old school, so I like my protagonists, older capable and deeper than the typical teenage angst.
I disagree there's a culture war. It's more of a genre elitism.
@DEEPFOXJUDE ah. I always forget about America's strange ability to polarize anything and everything.
Sad.
The first thing I did when I watched more anime was criticize how stupid it was that teenage boys were at the epicenter of the world in every anime ever. So I don't know who you're listening to or if you're just biased against a cultural boys vs. girl conflict, but I'm pretty sure nobody likes how overpowered Naruto is at his age or at all besides the wish fulfillment crowd.
I scoff at a pooely-written power fantasy, not at how girls or boys are the main characters.
@DEEPFOXJUDE I'm not aware of it, but then again I don't waste my time picking sides on the internet.
the denver trope is a combination of two notions - 1) that it is the most elevated city in the US, so thus would be the most resistant against flooding, and 2) stories coming out of the conspiracy subculture involving the alleged "Deep Underground Military Base" at Denver Airport.
Prepper tip
When the air raid sirens go off be sure to take cover in your local Abacrombe and fitch store.
It will be the last clothing store on earth
Yo that fucking footage. Respect, James.
Hunger games came out was amazing and everyone else failed miserably
Maze runner was good
*watching anime girl dancing and ignoring movie footage*
There should be an ending with the girl becoming the evil dictator and subjugating the people she said she would save.
Try Beyond The Ruby Veil. It is one *HELL* of a ride
I think also what is pretty compelling about katniss is that she cares about her family and prim the most. She did not want to be a figurehead at all but she was forced into the role because she had to survive. I think also what’s an issue w the copy cats is that (granted I haven’t read all of them, I think I’m mostly speaking to divergent) is that the class struggle is a universal struggle since forever, and tris focuses so much on self discovery which is I’m sure why it was so well received at first, as well as it following the hunger games. The system in place even while it has class does not really focus on it, which just ends up feeling more pointless. Tris feels more like the “different” girl who feels stifled by society which seems kinda selfish actually rather than katniss who just wanted what was best for those around her in her district and prim.
That moment when you realize the dystopia you wrote when you were 15 had rebel infighting, a diverse cast of characters, and mostly realistic characters.
Wow.....are you jesus? Have i finally found god? How did you oull off such an impossible feat?
Cool but openly bragging about you being a "super awesome and epic writer" at 15 is a bit cringe m8
@@jaushuagrahamthefloridaman1124 it is cringe. I doubt their work lived up to these words lmao
@Every Smart Ass Who Wants To Shit On Me
Yikes, okay guys, I see that you all are very upset for... some reason. Let me clarify several things. First of all, I never said it was good. The entire point of the comment was that I put more thought into my novel I started at 15 years old than most dystopian 'novels' (I finished it when I was 16). Yes, I was being hyperbolic, but the gist is correct. A major plot point is that the group of rebels had a split and are forced to work together in order to complete their goal, despite their violent past. Also, the rebellion consists of both the poor (who are looking for a better life) and the rich (who are using a government overthrow to benefit themselves) My cast is diverse because I am a diverse person who grew up in a diverse area, so it's only natural my characters reflect my surroundings. And, while my characters suffer from the fact that I was 15, I at least tried to give them personalities. Most of them are morally gray, which is something I did because I hated reading characters who are just 'good people'. They all have things they want and things they hate. I'd say they are 'mostly realistic'. But guess what, I'm in the process of editing! Wow, would you look at that, a writer working to improve their art! Wow!
I was making a point that it isn't hard to put a little thought into a dystopian novel. That's all I was saying. However, you all seem to think I'm bragging and 'cringe'. Okay, think what you want. But while you're writing these comments shitting on me and my work, what are you actually doing with your time? Gosh, youtube comments can be super irritating. You see someone succeed and you just want to be angry. I know the value of my work and I know when my work needs to be improved upon, but I shouldn't have to make a disclaimer that my work isn't finished whenever I talk about it. Holy shit, the only 'cringe' here is you guys. Get a life. Also, writing realistic characters does not make it biographic. What are you even talking about?
@@athenagreen5390 lmao bruh letting youtube comments live rent free in your head😂
Your comment came across with a very (and i hate to reference reddit but) r/iamverybadass type vibe,and i put like 5 words and you left an entire essay about how your right and everybody else is a smooth-brain moron and you say WE arent having lives lol. Also imagine not only feeling personally attacked by RUclips comments criticizing you but openly saying it😆
This video made me want to read "red rising" all over again
They go to Denver because that’s the emergency capital of the US government in the event of nuclear war, etc. The Mile High City is easily defensible.
I love how we’re talking about hunger games clones when the hunger games is a clone of battle royale
Something this video didn't really bring up that I'd like to expand on:
The difference between authoritarianism and totalitarianism, or why these dystopias are so different from "classic" distopias.
An authoritarian government usually refers to a government that, either due to personal thirst for power or the desire to achieve some goal, suppresses personal freedoms seen as a threat to their rule. A totalitarian government, on the other hand, is always driven by some ideology, and as such seeks to control all knowledge of the past, or even basic facts of the present and future. For instance, the Nazis taught their racist ideas as fact, which also shows an important part of many totalitarian governments - buttering up a certain group of people, so they don't want to rebel.
Now, when you look at, for instance, 1984, it's an obvious totalitarian regime, with the government disappering people, suppressing any source of information outside their propoganda, and even trying to remake language to make it impossible to express dissent. But when you see many of these modern ones, the only fully totalitarian trait you usually see is the government's control over knowledge of the past. For instance, in the Hunger Games, no one knows much about the history of North America pre-75 years ago, and anything since then has been dominated by the Capitol. However, these governments, as pointed out in the video, oppress everyone equally. This doesn't really fall into any real category of ruling style, and keeps the government from using some "us vs them" ideology, like race war (Nazis) or class war (Communists), allowing any resistance to be organized much more easily. In addition, these modern dystopias either don't attempt to, or just suck at, controlling personal thoughts and views. I will give the Hunger Games a pass on this, since they use a show of force, in the form of child murder, to keep people in line, instead of just brainwashing. However, in a lot of these, people just realize in droves that their country sucks, and start a massive organized revolt. In real totalitarian regimes, while there was always some resistance, like the White Rose in Nazi Germany, most people were conditioned into believing that this really was the best they were going to get, such as by the whole German master race thing in Nazi Germany, or by class war and travel bans in the USSR. In short, old dystopias portray totalitarian regimes that only isolated individuals even question, and seem incapable of ever removing. These are usually warnings. These new ones are, as stated, wish fulfilment, and therefore must feature a less totalitarian government so that huge percentages of the population revolt and win easily.
@@Kazenikatze
Can you tell more about it.
I pooped in front of my Neighbors door and now I am being evicted we truly live in a society
Some of them will write a prequel decade later.
In the Spanish civil war the rebels were the authoritarians and the existing goverment was democratic and had a lot of in-fighting, the opposite of these books.
We have a militarist overthrowing democratic government and becoming a dictator described as the good guy in our history books. Not saying they are right or wrong.
To be fair, Maze Runner was written at almost the same time as Hunger Games, and Legend (in my opinion) was decently unique and had some amazing characters.
Ya I quite enjoyed legend
I'm pretty sure "The Giver" was from a previous generation of books with dystopian settings. I'm pretty sure it was written a decade or two before the turn of the millennium. The movie was made during the YA dystopia craze and is rather different to the book.
Would you ever talk about the city of Ember? I remember liking the concept a lot when I was younger, and I wonder how it holds up
Man, I was really into Maze Runner. I didn't care for the characters or the relationships, but I was dying to see what the fuck was actually going on. The book really draws a kid into the mystery.
James, you chose a quality method to evade the gaze of the copywrights.
13:59 “Rebel groups have always been the good guys!” *cries in spanish republican*
Denver is popular because it's much more central than Washington DC, and an hour down the road you got some boss military facilities.
casually dropping 'save the pearls' in that lineup is such a dangerous game like bruh....... BRUH....
(spoiler alert: its racist as fuck)
Okay, so?
Original battle royale novel: *laughs in everyone dying*
Anti-Copyright Chika! That’s literally one of the best things I’ve ever seen
Whats funny to me is that these stories like to glorify revolution, yet never show the destabilising and often catastrophic aftermath of them. Libya fell apart after Gaddafi, and Syria has been a battleground for foreign empires for years now. The genocides, mass migrations, ethnic clashes, power grabs and etc are never portrayed. Its always a squeaky clean happy ending where the bad guys are cartoonishly evil and lose. Yeah sure some try to be more realistic but compare that to the Arab Spring and you’ll find that they never get close to brutal enough.
The West loves the idea of a Liberal revolution against tyranny, its like their founding mythology, and these stories cater to it, even though everyone outside the West low key knows that such events are always far bloody, far dirtier and far riskier than ever portrayed, and democracy itself isn’t really a goal. Its not exactly like popular opinion actually matters in Western Liberal democracies anyway.