Yep - 20m is just a bit better than the DXC but Hex is definitely a better gain performance on the higher frquencies - baseplate is at 7.5m on a nice steel mast. Having both in a smallish UK garden gives me a great selection of choice.
I homebrewed a G3TXQ Hexbeam a few years ago for about £80. I remember having it on a test stand at 2m height, tweaking the elements for a decent VSWR. Connected it up to my IC-703 and heard a ZS station calling cq on 20. The Hexbeam happened to be beaming roughly south so I replied and got through first call with 5 watts.Then had it up on a scaffold pole at 9m with a cheap rotator, worked really well on all bands 10 through 20. Enjoy your vids Callum. Cheers,Mike.
I ve been building an hexbeam for 6 bands but 6m is missing by now. May the missing 6 m wires make great influence in overall behavior? I got near 2.0 of swr in many bands. Regards
Very interesting Callum, I run a tennamast and normally leave mine at about 30ft… have taken it up to full height but never seem much difference… Have tried the height change in the middle of a QSO.. However, propagation is a strange thing.. Might now leave mine up a bit higher ☺️ On chats across the band, it does very well against a friends STeppir.. So very happy with mine… also quite wind resistant
A MW0JZE Hex Beam was my first HF antenna, when I started working HF last April. Mounted on my 12m EcoMast Ltd steel mast. My first contact was Cape Town from Buckinghamshire. Just amazing. Went on to work the World with it. Just replaced it with a Steppir DB11.
Mine is 43 feet to the bottom. This puts the 20m band about 48 feet above the deck and I couldn't be happier with the performance. Compared to my verticle with 125 radials the gain is at least 4 S-units better into Europe. 40 feet or a little better seems to be the magic height.
Hi Callum , I purchased a hex a while ago with the 40m extension ! Like you said it needed height so got a 14m tower all good sadly the neighbours didn’t like it and reported me to the council who by the way were shockingly anti any antenna’s. I almost gave up the hobby completely, until I done a swop with a local ham who needed a vhf uhf radio and was giving in return a dx commander? Best move I’ve made in putting life back into the hobby I love . Few years later I’ve purchased a few more which I have permanently at my home qth , and two others for portable work which work absolutely fantastic by the beach . Thank you
That was my thinking, basically try for a full wave above ground for the highest band I.E. 10m then the 20m will be 1/2 wave above ground, the best compromise for most in the real world. I have played about with different heights above ground and have produced some real crazy results. Basically I have found the higher the antenna the lower the angle of radiation. But I know that F/B versus dB gain and the effect of height above ground produces several workable solutions, there is no one size fits all, meaning its real hard to squeeze all the gain out of 1 antenna whether its F/B or forward gain, oh and also side rejection and narrowing of the beam width :/ . But they all work. We would all love the live in that ideal world where antennas are suspended in the air lol free space but alas we have to make do with what we have.
Some years ago, I saw pics of a hex beam that had been through an ice storm. It was covered with ice and had collapsed downward. After the sun came out and the ice melted, it sprung back up into form and only one of the wires needed fixing. I don't know what manufacturer it was from, but I was impressed that it survived and mostly self-corrected.
My ki0 hexbeam just survived Hurricane Idalia. We were hit by the northern eyewall and had 120+ mph gusts with 80mph sustained winds for about an hour. We have over 40 large oaks either blown over or snapped half way up the trunk. These are 80 to 200 year old trees. The only damage was 2 spreaders had the third section pull out and that was from a tree branch that flew through the air hitting it. One of my dual band vhf and a 6 meter vertical had the support poles bend in half. The top 40 feet of an oak that supported the wire I use for 40 and 80 meters is in the yard. Luckily no structural damage other to our home or outbuilding. We lost a few ridgecap shingles that I replaced as soon as the wind and rain stopped. The push-up pole holding the hex has a slight bend that I can't get to fully straighten with the guy wires but it doesn't seem to hurt the performance. I just don't like the way it looks so I will probably replace it this winter.
Would love one but…. I like to keep a relatively low profile with the neighbours and the hexbeam doesn’t exactly offer that. Everyone I know loves them. Great vid thanks Cal.
I did some research during the past year before putting up my Mosley Classic 33 on the 26th of June this year and I agree. You get a good storm, maybe if it's the hex you want, buy 2. LOL Getting these things into Canada would cost more than my classic 33. While researching my previous yagis replacement, I counted aproximately 15 wind storms with gusts exceeding 135KM since september 11th 2021 to March 8th, 2022. My Mosley's up 35 feet over excellent ground, a half a km from the coast at 90M ASL with excellent take off to EU. I'm seeing 8DBD forward gain and about 25DB front to back.
@@DXCommanderHQ Yup, hoping to put up a youtube vid demo of it very soon. Now on June 26th, 7:00 in the evening my time, I had the most fun operating for an hour and a half on 20M in 16 years. I'm sure the conditions played a big roll in the performance but "WOW", hope it will last. Another thing I needed, even though I'm giving up the warc bands is strength and ruggidness.
Exactly correct Callum . I was not as smart as you , bought one and THEN discovered there was no way I could get it above 7 metres in my small garden . At about 6 metres the A-B comparisons with my vertical indicated that most of the DX signals were same signal strength . I wasted several hundred dollars , eventually sold it . The DXer that bought it, installed it at 10 metres and first day he worked two new Asian DXCC entities from east coast USA.
We just had some tornadoes come through this area, The tornado didn't come near our house (well it was 20 miles away so still close-ish) Anyway I was nervous about my tower 😥 It was all good but you aren't wrong. I would just run a vertical but my neighborhood is a hive of RFI and verticals "hear" everything, the hex is so quiet 😊 I love my hex but it is a pain having a tower. As I sit here I'm building up the courage to crank it down to change the rotor. I always imagine the cables snapping or something 😬 Great content as usual, my hex is about 31ft up, I can't have it any higher as it wouldn't tilt over in my garden 😂
So, I had a very nice vertical antenna. 31 feet tall, fiberglass pole, hidden in the trees, large radial plate with 32 radial approximately 25’ long. It had a 4:1 unun at the base. You can see it in use on my channel doin the AM/MW band scan with the Icom receiver. It was a good antenna. Easy to put up (S9 made it, they don’t exist anymore really but someone bought them out after LDG took them over and you can still get one). The drab green fiberglass made it invisible in an area of my backyard that was undeveloped with tall trees. It was a beautiful thing in many ways. However, I noticed that I could never get into anything further than Western Europe with it. I couldn’t chase DX in southwest Asia, forget about Japan or east Asia. It did reasonably well as my first permanent install, and it was still standing, no maintenance required, 9 years after I raised it. Ok, about two years after I put this vertical up, I was sick and tired of hitting a wall with my DX. I also had just gotten a brand new Elecraft k3, and I didn’t feel my antenna was up to par with the radio. So I invested some money in a Cushcraft MA5B. It is a cheap, non-full size 2 element beam antenna on 20 m, 15 m, and 10 m with a directional dipole on 12 m and 17 m. To mount it, I dug a 3 ft deep hole, about 3 ft wide, pounded rods of rebar into the ground within the hole, and then poured about 200 pounds of quick Crete concrete in it with a large aluminum receiver for a push-up mast. I was able to mount the antenna about 15 feet, maybe on the best day 17 feet above the ground so we’re talking about 5 m. Now you think after listening to Callum’s video I’m going to tell you that I didn’t notice any difference between the beam and my vertical. Wrong. That silly beam antenna on a Home spun mast , 5 m off the ground was nothing short of amazing. It was at least 2 to 3 s-levels quieter than the vertical. And when you pointed it at something, everything else your radio picked up outside of that beam width just melted away. Switching between the two antennas, the little MA5B always mopped the floor with the vertical on every band 20-10m. I was able to make side band contacts in Japan, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and South Africa. When I would switch over to the vertical for comparison, I couldn’t even hear those stations. So take it from someone who put a lot of time and money ($300 dollars of copper actually) into a 31 foot vertical antenna with 32 radials, and actually thought it did a reasonable job, then put up a small beam at a non-ideal height. The beam always wins. It was always the better antenna, it wasn’t even close. It was also superior to a couple of similarly height mounted fan dive holes from Alpha Delta I had put up in an X configuration ( NE/SW, SE/NW). Once you have a beam, it drives home the point that your radio is as good as your antenna. A cheap Yaesu 891 with a beam destroys an Elecraft K4 or Flex 6700 with a vertical, even if the beam is only single story height. I’m at a place again where I am contemplating putting up a beam. I’ll be able to do 25 feet at least (depending on direction, it’s slopes to the south and east, and I get even more height). I’m not even thinking about vertical wire, antennas, fan, dipoles, sky waves., been there and done that. Having a beam you can point and drown out the noise around you by 270° is nothing short of magical when you experience it. It almost makes the hobby boring. That’s how good it is.
I think half your original issue was the 31 feet and 4:1 unun at the base giving you essentially a non-resonant antenna. Most of the higher frequencies would not have had a good pattern. But interesting story.
@@DXCommanderHQ Possibly, but non resonant antennas aren’t necessarily inefficient. I have a simple wire vertical now, approximately the same length, elevated 15’ off the ground, fed by only 18 inches of coax. By most on-line calculators, it is 95% efficient when tuned because of the ridiculously short feedline, as most of the loss in reasonably long non resonant antennas is in the feedline. One aspect of beams you don’t take into account is that even if imperfect in height, a non-height dependent advantage of beams is lowering the noise coming from outside the beam. So, yes at 5 degrees a beam at 15 ft may have equivalent gain to a vertical in its main lobe, but it rejects stray signals and noise (qrm and qrn) outside the lobe by 10-20 db, lowering the noise floor allowing you to hear the signal.
@m0mcx I think the other half is 34 radials. Depending on soil type which is about as poor as it gets here in N FL you need a minimum of 60 to 75 radials. My vertical was a fantastic dummy load when I first set it up and only had 4 radials per band. When I got to 60 it came alive and only got better as I added more. Commercial stations use 125 radials and its not because copper is cheap and it's easy to do. After 75 radials the difference was minimal but there was still a difference. Do I hear more off my hexbeam? Of course I do. However there have been days when the lower takeoff angle of the vertical has been heard on 10k mile DX and the hexbeam wasn't.
@@dnssigns A lot of studies show hugely diminishing returns with radials beyond a certain number. I forget them, but doing my research when I installed my vertical, I seem to remember most advice being that once you get past 16 radials, the benefits fall off sharply. My 32 radial vertical was a good antenna, but it was subject to its the flaws inherent within its design. It’s was noisy, non-directional, and not good for what I would consider rare or uncommon DX in the Far East, Australia, or the near east. I doubt another $300 of copper radials would have improved that situation, and really you only have to look at what antennas successful DX’ers use (beams) to settle the debate. Verticals have their advantages. They are relatively cheap, uncomplicated, require little or minimal support, sturdy, easy to install and effective. But they are second rate antennas compared with a beam or even an array 2 dipoles. But beams ad dipoles require require land, towers or tall trees (for dipoles), complexities with rotors or switches and their associated expenses, they are more fragile, and in the case of beams are unsightly in neighborhoods. It’s all about trade-offs.
Thanks Callum for the useful comparisons. I was surprised to find, a long while ago, that, depending on the ionospheric path-geometry at the time, HF antennas can be too high!. A guy in California was on 28 MHz, switching between two beams, one at 80 feet, the other at 40 feet; he was much stronger on the one at 40 feet! He and I explain this as being the better height once the ionospheric path is well open. He finds the higher beam wins when the band is opening and closing, i.e. I guess that's when the refraction-point, in the ionosphere, is at a very low angle above the horizon.
Interesting. I guess, with the different polarisations, the difference, between the Hexbeaam and the DXC, is largely owing to short-term variation, of the incoming polarisation, by the ionosphere. A good case for polarisation-diverse antenna systems! 😀(Enter the IC-7610 and other dual-receiver rigs)@@DXCommanderHQ
I ran one at 60ft for years and for the money they are brilliant, not a very pretty antenna and takes over a tower/mast as you can't put anything above it, but still if you can get it up high and in the clear you will do well,
The higher the better is usually true, gets you over local obstructions. However, the ligher you go the higher your feeder losses so it's a matter of finding the sweet spot. Only exception would be if you are lucky enough to be able to put both your Linear and low noise Rx preamp at the top of the mast.
I would say on 70cms you are right.. But on HF, feeder losses for say EcoFlex 15 and other newer fancy economical coax - is less than 3dB for 100m even on 10m band. That's a BIG tower :)
In the the old days as ZC4MO my "Tower" was over 6000 feet tall, but the best I could do was about 100 feet of UR213 (mil spec. RG8) to a TA33J antenna 60 feet off the ground. Still DXCC in one day during a major contest was possible.
I have a K4KIO Hexbeam. (usa)...Love it. It's up about 40 feet (12M), Yaesu rotor, free Rohn 25 tower sections...Club helped install..... Wind up to 75mph no bother. Don't like radials. But cost more than yours even with free stuff.
Ultimately it comes down to how you'd want your neighbours to perceive you. Hex beam: Possibly running a side-job laundry and perhaps without paying business rates. Vertical: Erect, fully functional radio enthusiast.
Hi Cal ... I would like to ask you a question. A while ago I saw in another video somewhere on YT a video where the OM showed that you've made a video about Cobweb antennas. I can not find it with the search function over here on your channel. I guess it has something todo in the time you got troubles with your channel. Is it possible to put that video back online again because I bought myself such an antenna and I'm interested in that video you once made. It would make me very happy to see some MMANA stuff about that antenna. 73 de ON1JV
Seems how this videos like 7 months old.. You probably won't see this comment. But if you run the coax up the pole with 2 in sulated spreaders to keep the coax off the pole it will lower your SWR impedance by one. So what I'm wondering is if this works with other antennas besides the hex??
Hi Ben, yeah - actually I see all comments (however "threads" are more difficult).. Right, In the event you are seeing changes to SWR with shielded coax near a conductive pole, the operator is EITHER using the wrong (read crappy) coax *or* they have a ton of RF on the outside of the feedline (potentially) and might be helped with a choke at the feedpoint. You shouldn't notice anything changes. Not knowing this installation, I can't comment further.
I have a 20 meter monoband tri element yagi with the boom setting at 42 feet. I placed a 1to1 choke at feed point and used 100 feet of LMR 400 zip tied to the 1½" steel mast. I have no issues with swr whatsoever and the whole setup is quite amazing compared to my old hustler 5BTV ground mounted vertical. Callum, love your videos! Keep up the good work sir! 73
Mounted a K4KIO hex beam on my 70ft telescoping tower. It remained there until it had to be lowered for tower maintenance. That very afternoon John ON4UN was working a pile up on 20m. What better reference signal could there be from a noteworthy station. I compared his signal strength with the hex beam at 70ft and 40 ft. There was noticeable improvement at 40ft so it remained there until it was removed from service. The reason...the front to back ratio was a problem. QRM from stateside stations, while directed to the EU, was excessive.
not all comes down to gain, you need to consider noise, signal to noise ratio. How noisy is the 2el directional hex @30ft/10m vs a vertical? depending on the location, the noise on the vertical will just not allow you to listen.
If people are going to go through the trouble of purchasing a hexbeam, I'm sure they will purchase some type of push up mast to get the height they want. So, it's not like trying to string a dipole or a loop where they are going to struggle getting the height. My 2¢ worth of thought on that. Here lately it seems the hexbeam is very popular as I've talked to so many who have one. I don't know where they are all coming from, but are out there for sure. A quick story for a qso I had a couple weeks ago with someone who owns a Hexbeam in California. I made contact and the beam was pointed to Japan, which is away from my QTH. Anyhow, he was 5 and 9, with a S Meter reading of S9, so a strong signal from the back side of the beam. He decided to turn the thing around to point it at me, and I had trouble telling he had done anything, as he might have been S10 after the turn, so I really wasn't too impressed with the gain. Maybe it was just the way he had it set up or perhaps his azumuthal calculation was wrong as to where I was. The bottom line is I just couldn't tell a difference between the front and back of the beam.
...strange phenomenon - I have not yet been able to observe something like this with my HexBeam. The forward/backward behavior is of course not as high as with a multi-element mono-band beam - but it is quite sufficient to raise the desired areas accordingly in the open band and to dampen the stations arriving from behind somewhat. Also it makes itself very strongly noticeable as soon as I turn the HexBeam in on the opposite station - or whether I turn away a little during the QSO. Only in the last days I had sufficient opportunity to try this with some connections into the Arab countries...
Erm... Well to be honest, that is basically a steel DX Commander 12.4 (or effectively an 18m Nebula). But on the 12.4 Signature you get 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, 15, (with 12 and 10 as 3/4 wave elements) and the Hy-Gain only delivers the contest bands. Same kind of system by the look of it. I don't really know. On average ground it's probably -4dB at 5 degrees. I would certainly go head to head with one of those and save the money and concrete for a new radio! :)
What if I'm hiding my hexbeam in the middle of a forest? Would it be pointless to put an HF beam antenna at lower than treetop level surrounded by trees?
@@DXCommanderHQ yes that’s where she is sat at at the moment. Once winter hits I will drop her down to around 5 or 6m to keep it safe. You were 55 on the baby loop antenna what is 2m above ground. Keep up the good work
Hello Callum. Realize this is a bit of a Necropost, but just ran across it and wanted to add a couple of data points. I've had my NA4RR Hexbeam in the air for a couple of years now and love it. I'm on a small lot, with lots of concrete parking area and garage out back which makes radials for a vertical an issue. That is why I went with a hex to stay inside property lines and not overhang power lines. Mine is on a tower at 40Ft and performs wonderfully. I finished my DXCC with within a month (it went up in July 2021, got # 100 in August 21) and am now at 214/205 confirmed and closing in on the DX Challenge. From Ohio I've worked Reunion Island and American Samoa on voice, and most areas of the world on digital. As far as winds, it has survived semi-regular sustained of 60MPH several times and gusts of up to 80MPH. The biggest issue I've had due to winds is the gusts deforming the shape and causing my tuner to go nuts. Sometimes I have to shut down or go to my sloper during high wind events, due to tuning issues, but the antenna rides it out with no problem. As for what the neighbors think? Meh. I'm not in an HOA and most of them know I'm a little weird any way. Most importantly, wife doesn't care because it keeps me in the basement shack, happy, and out of her way. I know several folks with DX Commanders (especially for POTA) that love them, and it's on my short list should I ever get a vertical, but for now I couldn't be happier with my hexbeam and highly recommend it. 73 Randy KAØAZS
@DXCommander How is effective height would be determine if I install my Hexbeam on a 10-15feet high Mast on the parapet of a 15 Meters high concrete Apartment , with half of the Hexbeam hanging over the Root and half over the ground 25meters below.
Yes.. 65 feet is a whole wavelength on 20. I've just run the numbers.. The difference on 20m is an extra 5dB between say 10m and 20m (less the cable loss of going the extra distance). On 15m and 10m, even higher gain and lower angles too.
great informative video, but as you say, the extra work and dosh to get a db or so over 57, which iam getting from one of your verts now, like you, i would rather have a good nights sleep.
Very interesting. I see the farfiled plot is forming secondary lobes at a certain height. Is this desirable? Radiating energy at high ToA secondary lobes when you are looking for DX does not help much isn't it?
@@DXCommanderHQ So it is crucial to find the optimal height without any secondary lobes wasting energy. For a multiband Beam there is no single optimal height agl, always a compromise except if you have the space for Monobander Yagis each at its best height... 73
Cullum what do you think about the cobweb? im thinking about running a PDL2 for 11 meters had one in the late 70s early 80s are there any antennas out there now that can match the PDL2 ?
I homebrewed hexbeam in less than 70 $ ,,, and it's working great , had qso with 59 signal report from central USA STATION , ALSO FROM BRAZIL STATION ,. THOSE ARE FARTHEST STATION FOR ME FROM INDIA,. HEIGHT IS ABOUT 10M
The ugliest antenna in ham radio. And yet... Mine, at the base is just under 5 meters off the ground. Absolutely amazing performance. I would love to have it higher, but that's what I have at the moment.
Well what can I say.. As you always tell me Cal,, (wow your really loud ) 100W Hex at just 5 mtrs off floor.. And I work the world, even on poor days.. Think I will leave it where it is lol... LZ4DJ
...what makes you think that? I have the HexBeam HEX6B from EAntenna - maximum load 5 kW. Where should there be a problem when you work with 1 kW power? Nothing happens...
Yep - 20m is just a bit better than the DXC but Hex is definitely a better gain performance on the higher frquencies - baseplate is at 7.5m on a nice steel mast. Having both in a smallish UK garden gives me a great selection of choice.
Sure Tom. Higher bands and you are away. And sometimes Hex on 20m is superb, you have told me.
I homebrewed a G3TXQ Hexbeam a few years ago for about £80. I remember having it on a test stand at 2m height, tweaking the elements for a decent VSWR. Connected it up to my IC-703 and heard a ZS station calling cq on 20. The Hexbeam happened to be beaming roughly south so I replied and got through first call with 5 watts.Then had it up on a scaffold pole at 9m with a cheap rotator, worked really well on all bands 10 through 20. Enjoy your vids Callum. Cheers,Mike.
Nice!
I ve been building an hexbeam for 6 bands but 6m is missing by now. May the missing 6 m wires make great influence in overall behavior? I got near 2.0 of swr in many bands.
Regards
1/2 wave length above ground on the lowest band
Very interesting Callum, I run a tennamast and normally leave mine at about 30ft… have taken it up to full height but never seem much difference…
Have tried the height change in the middle of a QSO..
However, propagation is a strange thing..
Might now leave mine up a bit higher ☺️
On chats across the band, it does very well against a friends STeppir..
So very happy with mine… also quite wind resistant
A MW0JZE Hex Beam was my first HF antenna, when I started working HF last April. Mounted on my 12m EcoMast Ltd steel mast. My first contact was Cape Town from Buckinghamshire. Just amazing. Went on to work the World with it. Just replaced it with a Steppir DB11.
Great system!
Mine is 43 feet to the bottom. This puts the 20m band about 48 feet above the deck and I couldn't be happier with the performance. Compared to my verticle with 125 radials the gain is at least 4 S-units better into Europe. 40 feet or a little better seems to be the magic height.
Hi Callum , I purchased a hex a while ago with the 40m extension ! Like you said it needed height so got a 14m tower all good sadly the neighbours didn’t like it and reported me to the council who by the way were shockingly anti any antenna’s. I almost gave up the hobby completely, until I done a swop with a local ham who needed a vhf uhf radio and was giving in return a dx commander? Best move I’ve made in putting life back into the hobby I love . Few years later I’ve purchased a few more which I have permanently at my home qth , and two others for portable work which work absolutely fantastic by the beach . Thank you
OK, all worked out in the end then. Well done Paul.
That was my thinking, basically try for a full wave above ground for the highest band I.E. 10m then the 20m will be 1/2 wave above ground, the best compromise for most in the real world. I have played about with different heights above ground and have produced some real crazy results. Basically I have found the higher the antenna the lower the angle of radiation. But I know that F/B versus dB gain and the effect of height above ground produces several workable solutions, there is no one size fits all, meaning its real hard to squeeze all the gain out of 1 antenna whether its F/B or forward gain, oh and also side rejection and narrowing of the beam width :/ . But they all work. We would all love the live in that ideal world where antennas are suspended in the air lol free space but alas we have to make do with what we have.
Some years ago, I saw pics of a hex beam that had been through an ice storm. It was covered with ice and had collapsed downward. After the sun came out and the ice melted, it sprung back up into form and only one of the wires needed fixing. I don't know what manufacturer it was from, but I was impressed that it survived and mostly self-corrected.
Wow. Kevin, that's amazing!
Amazing recovery on that antenna. Now we just need antennas to correct after our wind storms here in Texas. Haha
My ki0 hexbeam just survived Hurricane Idalia. We were hit by the northern eyewall and had 120+ mph gusts with 80mph sustained winds for about an hour. We have over 40 large oaks either blown over or snapped half way up the trunk. These are 80 to 200 year old trees.
The only damage was 2 spreaders had the third section pull out and that was from a tree branch that flew through the air hitting it. One of my dual band vhf and a 6 meter vertical had the support poles bend in half. The top 40 feet of an oak that supported the wire I use for 40 and 80 meters is in the yard. Luckily no structural damage other to our home or outbuilding. We lost a few ridgecap shingles that I replaced as soon as the wind and rain stopped.
The push-up pole holding the hex has a slight bend that I can't get to fully straighten with the guy wires but it doesn't seem to hurt the performance. I just don't like the way it looks so I will probably replace it this winter.
Would love one but…. I like to keep a relatively low profile with the neighbours and the hexbeam doesn’t exactly offer that. Everyone I know loves them. Great vid thanks Cal.
Great point!
I did some research during the past year before putting up my Mosley Classic 33 on the 26th of June this year and I agree. You get a good storm, maybe if it's the hex you want, buy 2. LOL Getting these things into Canada would cost more than my classic 33. While researching my previous yagis replacement, I counted aproximately 15 wind storms with gusts exceeding 135KM since september 11th 2021 to March 8th, 2022. My Mosley's up 35 feet over excellent ground, a half a km from the coast at 90M ASL with excellent take off to EU. I'm seeing 8DBD forward gain and about 25DB front to back.
Wow. Fabulous. Good analysis of storms too.
@@DXCommanderHQ Yup, hoping to put up a youtube vid demo of it very soon. Now on June 26th, 7:00 in the evening my time, I had the most fun operating for an hour and a half on 20M in 16 years. I'm sure the conditions played a big roll in the performance but "WOW", hope it will last. Another thing I needed, even though I'm giving up the warc bands is strength and ruggidness.
Exactly correct Callum . I was not as smart as you , bought one and THEN discovered there was no way I could get it above 7 metres in my small garden . At about 6 metres the A-B comparisons with my vertical indicated that most of the DX signals were same signal strength . I wasted several hundred dollars , eventually sold it . The DXer that bought it, installed it at 10 metres and first day he worked two new Asian DXCC entities from east coast USA.
Ah! Good science!
I’m home brewing one now. Been dragging due to getting the cart first. I have a tower I need to get done first. Thanks Cal for the comparisons.
Have fun!
We just had some tornadoes come through this area, The tornado didn't come near our house (well it was 20 miles away so still close-ish) Anyway I was nervous about my tower 😥
It was all good but you aren't wrong. I would just run a vertical but my neighborhood is a hive of RFI and verticals "hear" everything, the hex is so quiet 😊
I love my hex but it is a pain having a tower. As I sit here I'm building up the courage to crank it down to change the rotor. I always imagine the cables snapping or something 😬
Great content as usual, my hex is about 31ft up, I can't have it any higher as it wouldn't tilt over in my garden 😂
Have my G3TXQ Hexbeam up 35Ft and works great , did have up 25ft and also worked great 👍
Nice 👍
So, I had a very nice vertical antenna. 31 feet tall, fiberglass pole, hidden in the trees, large radial plate with 32 radial approximately 25’ long. It had a 4:1 unun at the base. You can see it in use on my channel doin the AM/MW band scan with the Icom receiver. It was a good antenna. Easy to put up (S9 made it, they don’t exist anymore really but someone bought them out after LDG took them over and you can still get one). The drab green fiberglass made it invisible in an area of my backyard that was undeveloped with tall trees. It was a beautiful thing in many ways. However, I noticed that I could never get into anything further than Western Europe with it. I couldn’t chase DX in southwest Asia, forget about Japan or east Asia. It did reasonably well as my first permanent install, and it was still standing, no maintenance required, 9 years after I raised it.
Ok, about two years after I put this vertical up, I was sick and tired of hitting a wall with my DX. I also had just gotten a brand new Elecraft k3, and I didn’t feel my antenna was up to par with the radio. So I invested some money in a Cushcraft MA5B. It is a cheap, non-full size 2 element beam antenna on 20 m, 15 m, and 10 m with a directional dipole on 12 m and 17 m. To mount it, I dug a 3 ft deep hole, about 3 ft wide, pounded rods of rebar into the ground within the hole, and then poured about 200 pounds of quick Crete concrete in it with a large aluminum receiver for a push-up mast. I was able to mount the antenna about 15 feet, maybe on the best day 17 feet above the ground so we’re talking about 5 m.
Now you think after listening to Callum’s video I’m going to tell you that I didn’t notice any difference between the beam and my vertical. Wrong. That silly beam antenna on a Home spun mast , 5 m off the ground was nothing short of amazing. It was at least 2 to 3 s-levels quieter than the vertical. And when you pointed it at something, everything else your radio picked up outside of that beam width just melted away. Switching between the two antennas, the little MA5B always mopped the floor with the vertical on every band 20-10m. I was able to make side band contacts in Japan, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and South Africa. When I would switch over to the vertical for comparison, I couldn’t even hear those stations.
So take it from someone who put a lot of time and money ($300 dollars of copper actually) into a 31 foot vertical antenna with 32 radials, and actually thought it did a reasonable job, then put up a small beam at a non-ideal height. The beam always wins. It was always the better antenna, it wasn’t even close. It was also superior to a couple of similarly height mounted fan dive holes from Alpha Delta I had put up in an X configuration ( NE/SW, SE/NW). Once you have a beam, it drives home the point that your radio is as good as your antenna. A cheap Yaesu 891 with a beam destroys an Elecraft K4 or Flex 6700 with a vertical, even if the beam is only single story height. I’m at a place again where I am contemplating putting up a beam. I’ll be able to do 25 feet at least (depending on direction, it’s slopes to the south and east, and I get even more height). I’m not even thinking about vertical wire, antennas, fan, dipoles, sky waves., been there and done that. Having a beam you can point and drown out the noise around you by 270° is nothing short of magical when you experience it. It almost makes the hobby boring. That’s how good it is.
I think half your original issue was the 31 feet and 4:1 unun at the base giving you essentially a non-resonant antenna. Most of the higher frequencies would not have had a good pattern. But interesting story.
@@DXCommanderHQ Possibly, but non resonant antennas aren’t necessarily inefficient. I have a simple wire vertical now, approximately the same length, elevated 15’ off the ground, fed by only 18 inches of coax. By most on-line calculators, it is 95% efficient when tuned because of the ridiculously short feedline, as most of the loss in reasonably long non resonant antennas is in the feedline. One aspect of beams you don’t take into account is that even if imperfect in height, a non-height dependent advantage of beams is lowering the noise coming from outside the beam. So, yes at 5 degrees a beam at 15 ft may have equivalent gain to a vertical in its main lobe, but it rejects stray signals and noise (qrm and qrn) outside the lobe by 10-20 db, lowering the noise floor allowing you to hear the signal.
@m0mcx I think the other half is 34 radials. Depending on soil type which is about as poor as it gets here in N FL you need a minimum of 60 to 75 radials. My vertical was a fantastic dummy load when I first set it up and only had 4 radials per band. When I got to 60 it came alive and only got better as I added more. Commercial stations use 125 radials and its not because copper is cheap and it's easy to do. After 75 radials the difference was minimal but there was still a difference. Do I hear more off my hexbeam? Of course I do. However there have been days when the lower takeoff angle of the vertical has been heard on 10k mile DX and the hexbeam wasn't.
@@dnssigns A lot of studies show hugely diminishing returns with radials beyond a certain number. I forget them, but doing my research when I installed my vertical, I seem to remember most advice being that once you get past 16 radials, the benefits fall off sharply. My 32 radial vertical was a good antenna, but it was subject to its the flaws inherent within its design. It’s was noisy, non-directional, and not good for what I would consider rare or uncommon DX in the Far East, Australia, or the near east. I doubt another $300 of copper radials would have improved that situation, and really you only have to look at what antennas successful DX’ers use (beams) to settle the debate. Verticals have their advantages. They are relatively cheap, uncomplicated, require little or minimal support, sturdy, easy to install and effective. But they are second rate antennas compared with a beam or even an array 2 dipoles. But beams ad dipoles require require land, towers or tall trees (for dipoles), complexities with rotors or switches and their associated expenses, they are more fragile, and in the case of beams are unsightly in neighborhoods. It’s all about trade-offs.
3:47 we get into the height. In my opinion, you need to really be looking at 10m height to make a real difference. Particularly on 20m band.
Thanks Callum for the useful comparisons. I was surprised to find, a long while ago, that, depending on the ionospheric path-geometry at the time, HF antennas can be too high!. A guy in California was on 28 MHz, switching between two beams, one at 80 feet, the other at 40 feet; he was much stronger on the one at 40 feet! He and I explain this as being the better height once the ionospheric path is well open. He finds the higher beam wins when the band is opening and closing, i.e. I guess that's when the refraction-point, in the ionosphere, is at a very low angle above the horizon.
Absolutely, angles change. My firned says sometime even a DX Commander winds over his Hexbeam.. Not always, of course.
Interesting. I guess, with the different polarisations, the difference, between the Hexbeaam and the DXC, is largely owing to short-term variation, of the incoming polarisation, by the ionosphere. A good case for polarisation-diverse antenna systems! 😀(Enter the IC-7610 and other dual-receiver rigs)@@DXCommanderHQ
How is a sneeze like a drum solo. You can tell it’s coming but can’t do anything about it.
Hi perfect is this I'm building a hex being this weekend (home-brewed with fishing rods) nearly finished. 😁
Perfect!
I ran one at 60ft for years and for the money they are brilliant, not a very pretty antenna and takes over a tower/mast as you can't put anything above it, but still if you can get it up high and in the clear you will do well,
So I am wondering if the antenna is on the roof of my house, is the house a factor? It may be up 40ft but it is on the house.
All good. House isn't "real" ground..
The higher the better is usually true, gets you over local obstructions. However, the ligher you go the higher your feeder losses so it's a matter of finding the sweet spot.
Only exception would be if you are lucky enough to be able to put both your Linear and low noise Rx preamp at the top of the mast.
I would say on 70cms you are right.. But on HF, feeder losses for say EcoFlex 15 and other newer fancy economical coax - is less than 3dB for 100m even on 10m band. That's a BIG tower :)
In the the old days as ZC4MO my "Tower" was over 6000 feet tall, but the best I could do was about 100 feet of UR213 (mil spec. RG8) to a TA33J antenna 60 feet off the ground. Still DXCC in one day during a major contest was possible.
I have a K4KIO Hexbeam. (usa)...Love it. It's up about 40 feet (12M), Yaesu rotor, free Rohn 25 tower sections...Club helped install..... Wind up to 75mph no bother. Don't like radials. But cost more than yours even with free stuff.
Sounds great Ken!
".... when the storms and wind comes i will be able to sleep at night because i don't have one of these things" well said indeed!! 😎
HAHA Yes!
Absolutely!
Ultimately it comes down to how you'd want your neighbours to perceive you. Hex beam: Possibly running a side-job laundry and perhaps without paying business rates. Vertical: Erect, fully functional radio enthusiast.
Great topic again. You do the best antenna work ups.
Much appreciated!
Hi Cal ... I would like to ask you a question. A while ago I saw in another video somewhere on YT a video where the OM showed that you've made a video about Cobweb antennas. I can not find it with the search function over here on your channel. I guess it has something todo in the time you got troubles with your channel. Is it possible to put that video back online again because I bought myself such an antenna and I'm interested in that video you once made. It would make me very happy to see some MMANA stuff about that antenna.
73 de ON1JV
I'll go find it.. Or re-make it.
Thx 73@@DXCommanderHQ
Seems how this videos like 7 months old.. You probably won't see this comment. But if you run the coax up the pole with 2 in sulated spreaders to keep the coax off the pole it will lower your SWR impedance by one. So what I'm wondering is if this works with other antennas besides the hex??
Hi Ben, yeah - actually I see all comments (however "threads" are more difficult).. Right, In the event you are seeing changes to SWR with shielded coax near a conductive pole, the operator is EITHER using the wrong (read crappy) coax *or* they have a ton of RF on the outside of the feedline (potentially) and might be helped with a choke at the feedpoint. You shouldn't notice anything changes. Not knowing this installation, I can't comment further.
I have a 20 meter monoband tri element yagi with the boom setting at 42 feet. I placed a 1to1 choke at feed point and used 100 feet of LMR 400 zip tied to the 1½" steel mast. I have no issues with swr whatsoever and the whole setup is quite amazing compared to my old hustler 5BTV ground mounted vertical. Callum, love your videos! Keep up the good work sir! 73
Mounted a K4KIO hex beam on my 70ft telescoping tower. It remained there until it had to be lowered for tower maintenance. That very afternoon John ON4UN was working a pile up on 20m. What better reference signal could there be from a noteworthy station. I compared his signal strength with the hex beam at 70ft and 40 ft. There was noticeable improvement at 40ft so it remained there until it was removed from service. The reason...the front to back ratio was a problem. QRM from stateside stations, while directed to the EU, was excessive.
Very interesting!
not all comes down to gain, you need to consider noise, signal to noise ratio. How noisy is the 2el directional hex @30ft/10m vs a vertical? depending on the location, the noise on the vertical will just not allow you to listen.
.. and height :)
If people are going to go through the trouble of purchasing a hexbeam, I'm sure they will purchase some type of push up mast to get the height they want. So, it's not like trying to string a dipole or a loop where they are going to struggle getting the height. My 2¢ worth of thought on that. Here lately it seems the hexbeam is very popular as I've talked to so many who have one. I don't know where they are all coming from, but are out there for sure. A quick story for a qso I had a couple weeks ago with someone who owns a Hexbeam in California. I made contact and the beam was pointed to Japan, which is away from my QTH. Anyhow, he was 5 and 9, with a S Meter reading of S9, so a strong signal from the back side of the beam. He decided to turn the thing around to point it at me, and I had trouble telling he had done anything, as he might have been S10 after the turn, so I really wasn't too impressed with the gain. Maybe it was just the way he had it set up or perhaps his azumuthal calculation was wrong as to where I was. The bottom line is I just couldn't tell a difference between the front and back of the beam.
Yep.. but there's the dreamers.. You have no idea the FAQ emails I get! LOL!!
@@DXCommanderHQ and I don't want to know :) hahahaha
...strange phenomenon - I have not yet been able to observe something like this with my HexBeam. The forward/backward behavior is of course not as high as with a multi-element mono-band beam - but it is quite sufficient to raise the desired areas accordingly in the open band and to dampen the stations arriving from behind somewhat. Also it makes itself very strongly noticeable as soon as I turn the HexBeam in on the opposite station - or whether I turn away a little during the QSO. Only in the last days I had sufficient opportunity to try this with some connections into the Arab countries...
Nicely demo'ed. Want a real challenge??? (and I've been looking for anyone who's done this) please have a run at modeling a HyGain HyTower.
Erm... Well to be honest, that is basically a steel DX Commander 12.4 (or effectively an 18m Nebula). But on the 12.4 Signature you get 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, 15, (with 12 and 10 as 3/4 wave elements) and the Hy-Gain only delivers the contest bands. Same kind of system by the look of it. I don't really know. On average ground it's probably -4dB at 5 degrees. I would certainly go head to head with one of those and save the money and concrete for a new radio! :)
What if I'm hiding my hexbeam in the middle of a forest? Would it be pointless to put an HF beam antenna at lower than treetop level surrounded by trees?
I personally don't believe so. At the scout hut we had hundreds of metres of trees behing us - and stuff that way worked fine!
I ran my ma5b 2 element at around 7m and then got it up at around 11m and the difference was amazing thanx for contact on 20m other day :)
Yes, I'll bet 11m height was great!
@@DXCommanderHQ yes that’s where she is sat at at the moment. Once winter hits I will drop her down to around 5 or 6m to keep it safe. You were 55 on the baby loop antenna what is 2m above ground. Keep up the good work
Hello Callum. Realize this is a bit of a Necropost, but just ran across it and wanted to add a couple of data points.
I've had my NA4RR Hexbeam in the air for a couple of years now and love it. I'm on a small lot, with lots of concrete parking area and garage out back which makes radials for a vertical an issue. That is why I went with a hex to stay inside property lines and not overhang power lines.
Mine is on a tower at 40Ft and performs wonderfully. I finished my DXCC with within a month (it went up in July 2021, got # 100 in August 21) and am now at 214/205 confirmed and closing in on the DX Challenge. From Ohio I've worked Reunion Island and American Samoa on voice, and most areas of the world on digital.
As far as winds, it has survived semi-regular sustained of 60MPH several times and gusts of up to 80MPH. The biggest issue I've had due to winds is the gusts deforming the shape and causing my tuner to go nuts. Sometimes I have to shut down or go to my sloper during high wind events, due to tuning issues, but the antenna rides it out with no problem.
As for what the neighbors think? Meh. I'm not in an HOA and most of them know I'm a little weird any way. Most importantly, wife doesn't care because it keeps me in the basement shack, happy, and out of her way.
I know several folks with DX Commanders (especially for POTA) that love them, and it's on my short list should I ever get a vertical, but for now I couldn't be happier with my hexbeam and highly recommend it.
73 Randy KAØAZS
Is 25ft hifh enough for a Hustler 6-BTV Hf antenna.
I quite fancy a Hexbeam for 11m, only 2 elements i believe, andnsome good results too.
No idea.
@DXCommander How is effective height would be determine if I install my Hexbeam on a 10-15feet high Mast on the parapet of a 15 Meters high concrete Apartment , with half of the Hexbeam hanging over the Root and half over the ground 25meters below.
Ignore the building.. It will be quite incredible. Just make sure the health and safety has been looked at! :)
What would be the difference of a 3 el tri bander at 30ft and 65 ft? Worth it ?
Yes.. 65 feet is a whole wavelength on 20. I've just run the numbers.. The difference on 20m is an extra 5dB between say 10m and 20m (less the cable loss of going the extra distance). On 15m and 10m, even higher gain and lower angles too.
@@DXCommanderHQ thank you Callum. I appreciate your help
great informative video, but as you say, the extra work and dosh to get a db or so over 57, which iam getting from one of your verts now, like you, i would rather have a good nights sleep.
Fair enough!
Do these not survive wind and winter storms very well?
I believe it depends on which one you buy... Look for solid engineering, not price.
Great video Cal! I have to get mine put up!
Go for it!
Callum any plans to offer a hex beam? Hope so!
Who knows... And I wouldn't say!
So it would be fair to say a Hex beam is fundamentally, a multi band Moxon.. ??
Erm.. Different shape.
Sorry I was vague in my comment. I was comparing Dbi gain to height ratio and front to back rejection.. @@DXCommanderHQ
Very interesting. I see the farfiled plot is forming secondary lobes at a certain height. Is this desirable? Radiating energy at high ToA secondary lobes when you are looking for DX does not help much isn't it?
No it doesn't. Effectively, these are wasted.
@@DXCommanderHQ So it is crucial to find the optimal height without any secondary lobes wasting energy. For a multiband Beam there is no single optimal height agl, always a compromise except if you have the space for Monobander Yagis each at its best height... 73
Cullum what do you think about the cobweb? im thinking about running a PDL2 for 11 meters had one in the late 70s early 80s are there any antennas out there now that can match the PDL2 ?
PDL2. I had one. Amazing pieces of kit. Get it up above 30 feet if you can.
I homebrewed hexbeam in less than 70 $ ,,, and it's working great , had qso with 59 signal report from central USA STATION , ALSO FROM BRAZIL STATION ,. THOSE ARE FARTHEST STATION FOR ME FROM INDIA,. HEIGHT IS ABOUT 10M
You should do a video on the build.
@@mixxndj it's already installed, with post photos if you want. Thanx for comment
have you ever had someone install one you ant on top of a roof with the radials?
Actually yes. Plenty of folks. You can ask on the Discord Server and see pics there: discord.io/dxcommander
What about people who live in valleys where 5% isn't helpful? Keep it lower?
No... You can still get DX. I was working Bert in Bonaire. AFterwards I calculated the hill behind me gave 10 degrees.
The ugliest antenna in ham radio. And yet...
Mine, at the base is just under 5 meters off the ground. Absolutely amazing performance. I would love to have it higher, but that's what I have at the moment.
Heathen! The Cubical Quad is worse.
Cracking Video Cal..
Cheers Martin!
Great video de W2CSI
my opinion,,, How high should i put antenna? answer is yes...
Haha
Where you are ... I mised you, not you, but your vlogs !!
I'm here.. Been uploading about 2-3 a week..
Still subscribed and liking
Does it work with a poxy 100 watt station ok 😎
Great question, I would also be interested to know, asking for a friend!
Yes it does
5:50 - So smooth
Habit! :)
well summed up keep aerials simple to use.
looks like a upturned washing line. Least it does the job.
I thought they were upside down umbrellas. Lol
Get as much metal with the lowest SWR as high as you can!
HAHA YES!
Miller Elizabeth Thomas Kimberly Clark Kevin
Well what can I say.. As you always tell me Cal,, (wow your really loud ) 100W Hex at just 5 mtrs off floor.. And I work the world, even on poor days.. Think I will leave it where it is lol... LZ4DJ
That's it Keith!
About 2 grams
Or an ounce!
do not use a hexbeam with a KW...you will burn the spacer cords in two!
Change the cords :) SSB would be OK, but probably not FT8!
...what makes you think that?
I have the HexBeam HEX6B from EAntenna - maximum load 5 kW. Where should there be a problem when you work with 1 kW power? Nothing happens...
@@michaelzehrfeld7766 I ran near 2kw through the eantenna hex and it was fine
I've had my hex for over 3+ years and I'm a contester and run an Acom 2000a at 1400+ with ZERO issues....who told you this????
This was a good'n
What about an Hexbeam on the Ground? 😂😂😂 No noise for sure
Too much coffee man.
Not enought rum.
Great Video Cal, Mark (2E0MSR)
Thank you kindly Mark! (ex ATC remember!)
Great channel mate … VK6BP
Thanks 👍