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Hey Woop… doesss the C*rona ability (not the virusss, the homemade ability for Magcargo) ssspeed up egg hatching? Becaussse I’m pretty sssure that the only reassson anyone usssesss Magcargo isss for Masssuda breeding.
I had to opposite journey, me and chikorita couldn’t pass bugsy since for some reason I kept using rock smash against scyther. I passed him by growing so comically powerful everything else was a cake walk. This was my first Pokémon game so it was super scuffed
I rocked the Noctowl on my first play through of gold and distinctly remember waiting for it to get better, but it just never did. Hit everything soft as hell 😂
Gen 2’s new Pokemon are so well hidden I thought a lot of them were from gen 3. Magcargo fits so well being from Hoenn. Same goes for Misdreavus and Lanturn.
Whoever thought putting such a weak pokémon into the post game, have it evolve at level 37 or something and evolve into a poké with the BST of a second stage starter who has high defense which is worthless because of its myriads of (4x) weaknesses... seriously GF, what the hell.@@PokemonWoop
Man, I'd love to see Noctowl get the Annihilape treatment with a new fearsome Flying/Ghost evo. Shift it to be the speedy physical attacker it could have been, and maybe Eviolite Noctowl can better perform the bulky support role it was intended for
Think it's a good candidate for an Evo (maybe based on its bulky af beta design?) and Shadow Tag. Hypnosis/Nightmare/Roost/Air Slash would go hard with Eviolite and Shadow Tag 😁
When I bought and first played Pokémon Silver as a child, I picked Chikorita. I loved Ivysaur in Pokémon Blue: it was a real threat with Sleep Powder and Razor Leaf _(I prevented it to evolve into Venusaur, because I thought it was diseased and suffering)._ At level 8, Chikorita learnt *Razor Leaf.* I was ecstatic: the best Grass-type moves this early? This is crazy! Bulbasaur used to be at least level 13 to learn the weaker *Vine Whip!* Then I quickly realized that the Critical Hit formula changed, and Razor Leaf wasn't as good. The disappointment/deception grew bigger when I realized that Meganium wasn't a Fighter, but more a Support Pokémon. It learns Reflect, Light Screen and Safeguard, moves I removed or didn't learn. My child brain didn't compute that, on a game that was too easy to even need Support. It also learns Synthesis, which is useless when you have healing items. PoisonPowder and Body Slam were there to spread status. But where is Leech Seed, and mostly: Sleep Powder? What is the point of a Support Pokémon that don't have access to the most useful Support moves?! In the end, my Meganium ended as a true Support Pokémon: it learnt Cut, Strength and Flash, taking some hit when needed so I could put some Revive on my Ampharos.
Meganium can be a real offensive threat with Earthquake/Swords Dance/ Body Slam/Synthesis. It can also actually get Leech Seed as an egg move. Ironically, for all the hate it gets, Meganium is actually the best starter of the first two games. None of the Gen 1 starters were OU when they hit the scene (except Venusaur for a hot minute in the early days, since it was a Sword Dance user that wasn't checked by Rhydon/Golem), Feraligatr got royally screwed by the physical/special split, and there's really no reason to use Typhlosion over most of the other fire types unless you REALLY need one that can run Dynamicpunch. Meganium tho? It can sweep with Swords Dance OR support with Dual screens and Leech Seed. Apart from Celebi (and arguably Victreebel), it's def the best grass type in GSC, and the best starter of the first 2 gens 😎
"My child brain couldn't compute that" I think this is why the future grass starters stopped being support pokemon. Razor Leaf was still really good as its first STABS considering that by level up, the closest competition is Flame wheel learned by Quilava at level 31, which is still only 60 BP (Seriously, why is gen 2 Cyndaquil so bad, it doesn't even get Flamethrower until level 60)
I've been replaying Crystal and it's done me well. It's a bit slow and it takes more exp to level up but it's very tanky and you get some amazing coverage if you manage to teach it Ice Beam from the guy who wants Casino coins on certain days of the week in Goldenrod.
i think even Game Freak agrees that gen 2 mons are infamous for being underwhelming. Look at how many of them got a second chance in Hisui and Paldea. Evos for single stagers like Wyrdeer and Farigiraf, regional forms with Qwilfish and even paradox mons like Iron Bundle and Treads
@@PokemonWoop I've read somewhere that since it was their second game, gsc wasn't made when "generations" exist as a concept, so it was more of an expansion of rby rather than an entire new generation like rse would be
@@sebastiankulche When it came out, it worked quite well to be fair. GSC was for a long time the most beloved generation (until Sinnoh dropped i suppose) And the many new features (day/night cycle, rebattling, events depending on the day etc) kinda glossed over the fact, that alot new Pokémon were actually awful. But it also fixed the typing errors and added two new types, even if they were criminally underused in their own game.
@@Aurirang I think GSC is like Crash Twinsanity in the fact that its a "take it or leave it" type of game. Not all people would click with its design aproach but the ones they do find its the best game ever. But thats a double edge sword that other games in the series didnt had. Even Gen 1 with all of its technical issues was a more "consistent" game, and thats the game you are not allowed to like.
I like how almost all these pokes are presented for you to snag in Colosseum 1 which ramps up the difficulty in that game given how little options they give you.
For Magcargo, Magma Armor could be reworked as a Water Bubble variant: increase Fire attacks's BP, make immune to freeze and halves damage from Water type attacks. Also maintain its field effect. That way, it also helps Camerupt.
I think it's kind of poetic that there are a lot of weaker Pokemon in Gen II while also being the same games that gave us the quote from Karen, "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites." While it is fun to theorize and speculate about making Pokemon stronger to the point that some people make entire fan games just to do so, I think it's also important to acknowledge that one of the most important things about this fandom is that every single Pokemon has at least one fan who has that Pokemon as their all-time favorite. Yeah, Sunflora may not have the best stats, but I've watched someone solo the entirety of Crystal with just one Sunflora as their only Pokemon, and it was amazing to see them take down Red with it at the end. Magcargo is one of my favorite fire types and I always have a lot of fun working around its weaknesses whenever I use one in a playthrough. Regardless it was a fun video and got me thinking about how we could change some other Pokemon as well, but it is also still nice to appreciate the Pokemon that we do have.
It would be better if Ice Beam and Thunderbolt were available before post-game in Crystal, but that's more of a problem with the game itself and not Lanturn.
@@Ferropexola1996 Yeah a lot of waters get screwed in gen 2 by locking ice beam and thunderbolt to post game. They don't typically have hands so they don't get thunder punch and ice punch like everyone else. Starmie is a great example of this. It gets surf then has to wait for after the E4 for psychic, ice beam, and thunderbolt.
I actually used Lanturn in my main team in Gen 4 and it did great. A bulky electric/water type with leftovers that absorbs water/electric attacks can resist a lot of turns. And it also can defend itself with a Surf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Toxic...
Lanturn in gen 4 is MUCH better than Lanturn in gen 2. Volt absorb in particular gives it a niche and great synergy with some common Pokémon like Gyarados. In gen 2 all it really has going for it is electric typing/STAB, otherwise it’s a pretty average bulky ish water type. Maybe not as bad as some of the mons in this video but not great either
@@LudiColorado It's still one of the better waters for an in game playthrough in gen 2. Stab water/electric is just really strong. Kind of like how quagsire is also really good with water/ground even though its stats are meh. If I had to rank it vs other waters it'd make the top 5, but only barely. If you really want to shit on a gen 2 water type then look at corsola.
I feel like Magcargo's ability could have just been Dry Skin. It gives it a water immunity, its negative effect is counteracted by Mag's typing, and it makes enough sense considering Magcargo's body evaporating water.
@@EbuCallinav yeah given these mechanic's of dry skin...the ability just does not make sense on magcargo and in fact would instead completely go against it's typing
I really loved this video. The concept to help make these Pokémon better while being practical. Also, I loved the liminal aesthetic you did with the editing. By putting liminal space photos in the background, putting a grainy filter on the video, even putting a somber but familiar sounding music. I really loved the extra touch of the first few Pokémon getting they’re on transition and name. I wish the last few had those. Overall. Amazing video. I got this randomly in my recommended and do not regret watching this.
i don't think its nessisary for the starters to all have a single type or a duel type. i mean Charizard and Venasuar are both duel type while Blastoice is a single type
I thought Ledian was Bug/Fighting like Heracross, so I’m glad you made the change Magcargo always made me sad tbh. Both it and Slugma have such a cool concept with being slugs (viscous animals) made of magma/lava (a viscous fluid). I’m also upset about its shiny. The pink is actually pretty good, but I’ve just always preferred its blue shiny from GSC
Pokémon and Bethesda games like fallout have one thing in common. They’re critically acclaimed games that have somehow stood the test of time, and the programmers for each game are somehow so inept that they can’t release a properly functioning game to save their lives.
I like Chikorita and buffing it is of real interest to me. But if it got a 2nd typing, I would pick Rock. It fits better with being a dino, the earlier it learns ancientpower the better, and the defensive profile is neat as well.
And there is the thing that Meganium getting Rock would also eliminate two weaknesses (I am saying 2, since while it loses Fire, Poison and Flying as a weakness, it gains Fighthing).
Hey dude! Magcargo kind of got fixed in the Teal Mask dlc for gen 9! Obviously it's still old crumby Margo, but they finally gave it Power Gen instead of the awful Ancient Power. And with Shell Smash and Weak Armor, one wrong blow to Magcargo that doesn't kill it can make it snowball out of control, making it impossibly fast and hits harder than a drunk mother. For gen 2 Margo though... yeah he is very hard to fix.
Honestly given later Gen movesets giving Magcargo access to Shell Smash, all you could really add on is making Simple an available ability for it which could allow it to explode into some real battle potential.
I think Grass/Electric would be a better fit for sunflora. It fits its colour palet and shape much better as looks more or less like lieutenant Surge's gym badge, and it wouldn't be illogical with it being a sort of natural solarpannel. ideally it could really use an evolution, it looks pityfully weak as it is.
I think for Ledian having its attack increased to like 50 but giving it huge power as an ability (since insects are known to be strong for their size and because of the sentai super hero theme) then give it like +10 HP and +10 Def while making it fighting and bug would be good
Hello! I thought I’d mention this, I played through Pokemkn Heartgold with only Shinies recently and decided to breed for a shiny Chikorita with Ancient Power and Leech Seed. She was absolutely incredible. Pretty solid in Jhoto, and absolutely broken in Kanto.
There's a romhack called Emerald ROWE that I played that was basically Pokemon emerald with updated mechanics, Pokemon up to gen 7, and of course some tweaks to some Pokemon. Lantern had 3 things that made me decide to use it. 1: a slight boost to stats. I think it just got a little special atk. 2: Tail Glow, which is like what you said. Finally, 3: illuminate had a massive buff. It raises the user's accuracy by 1 stage when it's sent into battle, thus making those low accuracy moves extremely viable.
I think these pokemon are plenty usable, if you use them right. Meganium is a pretty decent screen-setter that can be annoyingly bulky or fill a cleric role with aromatherapy; Lanturn sits in an odd spot with Seaking where it's one of very few pokemon who can resist Boltbeam coverage through its ability (and STAB Thunder in the rain at least hits decent while also having water type moves be boosted) Magcargo has gotten Shell Smash and Explosion over the years and honestly, I've had a lot of funny moments using one in the past. I sincerely love the funny meme snail. Sunflora Ledian can actually set screens too, while being a tad more aggressive than Meganium (It doesn't have the bulk or cleric options, so it has nothing to do other than u-turn or use something boosted by iron fist) Noctowl actually sees some use in GSC UU as a reflect user that can put things to sleep and spam night shade with an alternative Curse set (which is very funny) as you can see, they can all have a use in lower tiers if you try hard enough and are willing to put in a little bit of work :D stay gameing, gamers
Some mons get completely screwed over in playthroughs by their learnsets. Either they get good moves way too late, never get anything, or start with decent moves and never get anything more. It would make sense if you had to use TMs to make good pokemon truly good - like a hidden gem - but usually strong pokemon just get given good learnsets while the mid mons have to rely on TMs, just to still be weaker. Just one of the reasons why Game Freak just aren't good at game design overall, they have a few nice ideas here and there but the consistency is nonexistent.
This might be a bit much but I think Drought would fit Magcargo really well. I figured that’s where you we going with helping it out against water and it is hotter than the sun.
Thankfully at the very least, Dunsparce finally got an evolution. And there have actually been quite a few Pokémon from the Johto Region and Gen 2 who have finally gotten much needed evolutions. But it definitely would be cool for some of them to just get better stats, better typings, and better moves. They could just do the whole Sneasle and Sneasler treatment with a regional variant of some form.
To be fair Ledian's Pokedex entry mentions that it's punches aren't very strong so even if Ledian did get a buff it likely wouldn't get that much more attack
I think Ledian deserves a better typing, Bug/Fairy since its supposed to be alien, just like Clefairy. And give it a signature ability called "Shielded Fists", making physical contact moves use its Special Defense as its Attack stat!
Sadly grass types in Johto unless they change the gym and have it set later on or earlier, any pure grass type will suck. Making Meganium a second type would be the only way. Fairy or Dragon make more sense to its deaign imo.
I would've loved to be there when they were making the games, asking why most new mons are in Kanto or the stat distribution. Shadow ball reducing special defense and so on. Wonder what was going through their minds.
My guess is that since GS were meant to be the last games, they wanted the Gen 2 Pokemon to not be their own thing, but just an extension to the original 151
I love your suggestion for chikorita. I recently started a hg playthrough and picked it because i thought it was thr cutest out of the starters but effectively became dead weight compared to the rest of my team. I wish they made some sort of change for it as I like the design of it more than the other starters.
8:16 It's not cliché at all, especially considering that, had a certain recent Pokémon that nobody genuinely likes snatched up that typing first, Grass/Fire would be a truly unique type combination that'd make Sunflora stand out from every other Grass-type. Sunflora really deserves these buffs, but GAME FREAK will never do that because that would make too much sense. The only realistic love they'll ever give it is an evolution which, again with mentioning Paldea, it had its opportunity to get one *RIGHT THERE,* especially with the focus it got in that one Gym Challenge, but nope, it got *NOTHING.*
TFS's famous Soul Silver Nuzlocke used Meganium, Magcargo, and Lanturn quite nemorably. Especially Meganium oh god. Though again this was Soul Silver, not regular Silver, so they got to benefit from the fourth gen upgrades.
Ariados is really painful to me, it's one of my favorite. It just has such awful stats for what it should be. Not only is it Bug/Poison, but it is SO slow. The only good thing it gets is sticky web, but it just isn't worthwhile and there are much better sticky web options.
the thing about ledian isn't just that it's bad in the same way beedrill and butterfree are bad, it's bad because the part of the game where it's supposed to be used is actively designed against it's usage. The idea of an early and relatively strong defensive mon is incredibly promising. Ledian gets access to screens to support the team, and baton pass paired with agility and silver wind to further encourage empowering fellow mons. In gen 2, it can even learn curse to mitigate that awful defense. Ledian _could_ be a great early bug type as is, teaching players that power isn't everything. The problem is that ledian never gets these options early enough to be worth using over better options, and it's existing tools in the meantime are actively designed against by it's premier region. Most opponents early game will focus on physical attacks, neutering it's defining defensive trait. The most value you'll get offensively is hoping that the enemy magically hits themselves over actually doing damage. That could be fine if it got better moves and stats in due time, but it evolves level _18_ , and gets screens even later in gsc. So much for a poor mans butterfree. And once you finally reach the peak of it's power, guess what offensive move the upcoming gym leader's ace has. All that just for your one niche to be canceled out because everyone else can learn screens at this point. The problem with ledian isn't really ledian, it's johto's addiction to screwing it over. My fix would be to give it many of it's best options much earlier, including reducing it's level requirement to evolve. If i had to make one core adjustment, i would balance out it's defenses so it can actually take attacks on it's own.
@ 7:00 Manaphy also learns Tail Glow, but it doesn’t have a light on its tail. It’s actually the Antennae. So Lantern getting isn’t controversial so much as a much needed buff that would make it busted in the lower tiers.
So, magma armor is (funnily) the signature ability of magcargo and camerupt. So you can just buff the ability too the corona effects. Camerupt has the same problems, so it will be grateful for that too (2 volcano pokemon, being 4x weak to water LOL)
Don’t give Meganium a secondary typing. Give it access to Psychic via level up for poison types along with Leech Seed and Sleep Powder. Then you can give it 10 points into SpA to make it on par with the other starters
Seriously, you can tell they had NO idea a still what they were dling with typing. Or rather, they HAD an idea, but then guttes them on release. Grass/psychic would have been cool, and Ledyan's OG design is so RAW and yet its typing and stats made it my most disappointing catch as a kid.
One thing to note about Meganium is that while it doesn't have any great matchups against any of the bosses, it does well enough into Whitney's Miltank and Clair's Kingdra, who are generally 2 of the hardest pokemons you have to face-off, making so that while it's not great most of the adventure, it's good at the hardest times (which is also why I don't like Meganium gaining the ground type too much since it makes it less resilient to the hydro pumps from Clair's Kingdra).
Oh my gosh, Ledian has one of my favorite designs yet I can’t help but HATE it due to how much it sucks. I think with these buffs it’d be my favorite Pokémon (second maybe to Heracross)
There is one good way of fixing Magcargo in gen 2, and that's giving it an evolution, which, in addition to a hefty stat boost, would be a good opportunity to change its typing, particularly to FIRE/ STEEL. This does make sense since Magcargo is based on volcano snails, also known as scaly-foot snails. "The scaly-foot snail is the only organism known to incorporate metals (in the form of iron sulphides) into its ‘skeleton’, both into itsshell, and into the hundreds of external scales which give it its name." This would mean he's still prone to getting one-shot by EQ but atleast he's no longer guaranteed to die to a single water move. Plus he gains a ton of other resistances that rock lacks.
Chikorita is easily the best starter for Whitney's gym. Not because of type matchups, but because of its bulky stats combined with the move reflect, which you are very likely to have by the third gym. This allows you to easily outlast the Miltank's rollout onsalught. So unless the Clefairy rolls a strong fire move, or some other weakness, Bayleaf can probably sweep the gym without too much trouble.
In First Johto team in SoulSilver, I wanted a shiny starter, so 9 month story short i ended with a shiny Chikorita. Idk how or why but that thing was EXTREMELY good, as someone who heard all about about how bad it was, i was shocked by how fun it was to use (btw the full team were all very fun, Meganium, Apharos, Yanmega, Togekiss, Quagsire,Tyranitar)
Ariados needs Stakeout and First Impression. It would be such a great niche for that Pokémon and fits with the lore, just have that ability replace Sniper. And then I would also give it Intimidate over Swarm, which also fits the lore. And then the last buff would be to make Toxic Thread a spread move. Now you have a Pokémon that can switch in and on turn one lower attack, lower speed, and poison both opponents. Or, alternatively, you can come in and use a powerful boosted priority move that is actually strong enough to take out a special defensive Blissey in one hit (or knock a physically defensive one down to 50%). You could also pair Stakeout with moves like Fell Stinger or Loaded Dice Pin Missile for all sorts of shenanigans. Ariados has the potential to be really good, and I think the developers have a soft spot for it because whenever it pops up it always gets a slight little buff. I think these are the changes that would put it over the edge to being something people would want to use. Also, Magma Armor could receive a change to work more like Water Bubble. It could grant an immunity to freeze and then make all Water and Ice moves deal 1/3 damage to you and your ally. That doesn't fix the Water problem completely, but helps immensely all the same. I mean, magma should still be affected by water and this gives Magcargo a neat trait of being a good doubles partner for specific Pokemon
I wish these buffs were true id love them. I would maybe change corona so that it burns the opponent when it uses a water type move instead of on contact. Magcargo is so got it fills the battlefield with hot steam when hit with water. That way its not flame body+
Gen 2 was weird. I remember a guy outside of the first tunnel taking my Pokémon because it had mail attached to it. And I recall something weird about the trade Shuckle too
i chose chikorita as my starter in my most recent playthru of crystal and, while it wasn’t easy, it did end up dealing the final blow on lance’s charizard. never been more satisfied playing pokémon.
Magcargo, Unown , and Sunflora are easily the worst ones here. Magcargo is outclassed completly by two other fire rock types nowadays and even with a stat buff it got a few gens back, its useless. unown really needs a wishwashi form like the movies had where its just a mass of letters, even if it's only until half health. Sunflora not getting an evolution in the newest gen surprised me when it had a whole gym around it. I really think it should have been the first fire grass type if it get an evolution.
Im 30, still playing pkmn today (mostly RRed Hack Rom). Gold was and still is my fav game of the series. I even remember my team, Typhlosion/Gengar/Flareon/Sandslash/Gyarados/Omastar ❤
Ledyba + Ledian should've been Bug/Normal to give them STAB on all the star-shaped moves they get as their theme, & in Gen 2 that would've been a better STAB setup Noctowl is weird, it honestly needs an evo or better stats. Adding Psychic type just seems it make it a worse Xatu & also weak to Ghost. It's another Slowbro vs Golduck scenario. I'd argue Ghost/Flying makes the most sense in Gen 2 terms & only Drifblim gets it later I disagree with the Meganium type change because the GSC starters are all pure. Instead I'd mainly focus on giving it better tools to deal with the gym challenge & rockets. Chikorita with a decent normal move like Swift could handle Gyms 1 & 2 & the rivals Zubat easier, followed by getting Dig could handle Morty easier
Sunflora having a base 30 Speed is something I would love to see stay. If they removed Chlorophyll and made it far more bulky or made an evolution that was for more bulky you could use the base 30 Speed for Trick Room. Having Speed this low is a good Trick Room benchmark and that would be nice on a slower hard hitting Fire/Grass type. Trick Room needs things under a Base Speed of 45. I love dropping under that benchmark. You could easily give it a better Ability that replaces Chlorophyll so we keep a slow bulky damage dealer. Fire/Grass would be amazing for that. I have wanted a Fire version of Storm Drain for years now and this could be a fun Ability for a slow bulky Fire/Grass type. Or any of the other plant Abilities that could help a Trick Room set.
A Fire-type or Rock-type priority move perhaps could've made Magcargo less of a joke in Gen II than it turned out to be. Buffing its base speed to 45 also wouldn't have made it fast by any means but would've given it a chance to outspeed Rhydon and speed-tie Golem, which would've given it more of a fighting chance.
currently playing Pokemon Setting Sun, in which they made Ledian Bug/Fighting and implement a lot of the changes listed here like iron fist and higher stats to boot, lots of fun.
I would go as far as to say meganium doesn't even need the extra type just a better movepool. With a possible let's go johto game, they will inevitably add modern tms into the mix.
@@doozsromhacks The absolute good shit. Edit: I genuinely despise solid typings nowadays for starters. Just feels... I don't know. Just makes the starters not unique since they're ALWAYS going to be Fire, Grass, or Water.
I like your ideas. Here are some of my thoughts: Meganium: Take away Poison Powder and put in Sleep Powder(2:11). Next, swap out Safeguard for Spore. Meganium's dex entries is all about soothing the enemies will to battle. Sleep fits in well with this definition. With the addition of Leech Seed, Meganium has a lot of staying power especially if it holds Leftovers. Giga Drain can be added for max healing. This gives Meganium a reason to take in the late game. Noctowl: I disagree that having Noctowl as a Dark/Flying would not be interesting because of Murkcrow(4:25). Murkcrow is a glass cannon. Noctowl is a much slower Pokémon that dishes out and takes special attack damage well. Lanturn: Totally agree. Sunkern: I would add Will-O-Wisp. Something interesting about Sunkern is that it does not learn the standard powder moves like other Grass types. Because Sunkern is a Fire/Grass type, I figured it would be a good trade off for not learning powder moves. The burn condition would allow Sunkern to take physical hits better as well. Burn can be combined with Leech Seed for decent passive damage. Ledian: What do you think about giving Ledian Skill Link? It fits the cosmic theme a little better and can give Ledian a unique niche if we give Ledian Pin Missile. In the early game, Ledian can launch powerful Comet Punches to do good damage and break Substitutes. Around the 50s, Ledian can learn Pin Missile. With the buffs you gave Ledian(10:16), Ledian becomes a solid counter against Psychic and Dark types. Magcargo: Farfetch'd sticks this one is difficult! I would give it Solid Rock, but the dex is all about its brittle shell. The best I can come up with is giving Magcargo Aftermath and Explosion. Intense fire does shoot from the gaps in Magcargos' shell. If the shell were to be broken by a KO, it is reasonable to assume that a lot of fire will be immediately released. With a Focus Sash, Magcargo can reliably take the enemy Pokémon down with it using Explosion.
I honestly feel like Magcargo should have Drought. I mean it states that it is hotter than the sun in its dex entry. I gave it Drought in the rom hack I’m making to give it a reason to be looked at
In defense of Meganium in Gen 2 specifically: Meganium despite it's poor match ups does still have something going for it, support. With high bulk and learning Reflect at level 12, it can almost always get off a reflect to support the rest of the team, which is useful when all 6 of the first gym leaders, as well as the poison types of team rocket are all physical. This seems to be a very intentional choice as Bulbasaur in the previous game also heavily focused on support, only for Chikorita's poor reception to start a trend of grass starters all being attackers like the fire and water starters, a trend that generally hasn't worked out for them due to all the types that resist them. A shame since in a skilled hand Chikorita can still put in a lot of work. This being said, throw all of this out the window in HGSS. Falkner is a prime example of the game not really considering Chikorita and its tool set anymore. Chikorita has lost access to Reflect at a reasonable level, in return for gaining poison powder. A fair trade off until you realize that they decided to give Falkner a stalling move with Roost, not that Reflect would've helped against him after the physical special split. Chikorita went from having some tools to help against early enemies, to just not. And even Chikorita's superior early game neutral power is undercut by Quilava getting Flame Wheel a whole 11 levels earlier in the remakes, and Typhlosion getting Flamethrower at level 42 instead of 60. The Totodile line got similar buffs with Ice Fang and Aqua Tail, but for some reason, not only did Chikorita not get similar buffs, it actually seemingly got nerfed, with Body Slam going from level 31 to level 46, in exchange for what? An extremely risky option in Petal Dance? The Chikorita line isn't actually that bad in the original games, but it was absolutely done dirty.
In Gen 2-3, meganium, having leech seed is fine, and yes, Absorb, Mega Drain then Giga Drain would be consistent Gen 4 onwards, hoping safeguard buff to also protect from self confusion
Huh. Mind if I snitch your Ledian rework for my fan game? It'd make a really nice regional form. Also, 100% agree that making Noctowl a Ghost-type is ridiculous.
at this point, the best thing for the Slugma family is the Clodsire treatment, Give Slugma a regional form and evolves into something else, there is a reason why Coalossal is the better Fire/Rock type with all that HP.
13:58 I'd gonna wait untill ORAS and give it desolate land, achieving the same effect and also giving his fire type moves a boost on top of stab due to its lackluster offensive stats
No towel has always been my favorite Pokémon. Idk why but the high hp and decent special defense with hypnosis and dream eater managed to get me through most of the game
Wait, Noctowl can't learn Icy Wind via TM in Gen 2? ...huh, now that I've checked, most Flying types can't learn it. Weird. I thought it'd be a somewhat widespread move just because it's wind-based.
If we were strictly keeping to what abilities are in the game, Solid Rock is a nice alternative. Give at least a little more meat to the guy and he can hang with his fellow slow man rhyperior
They should just give Marcargo the desolate lands ability and a mega more powerful than rayquazas. I think that would be very cool and balanced and based
I know it's a new ability thats not in gen 2. But imagine if magcargo got earth eater. It kinda fits some snails do eat minerals and helps with its weakness.
About Magcargo: its terrible typing, awful stat distribution and mediocre base stat total aren't necessarily a death sentence. Its unnecessarily late evolution is. It's like Game Freak didn't quite know what to make of Slugma and Magcargo: their location and evolution level seem to be in line with a late-game powerhouse evolutionary line's, but their stats are more in line with an early game crutch Pokémon's. Early route crutch Pokémon are there to teach you a valuable lesson: not every Pokémon will remain strong throughout the game, but this doesn't have to be an entirely bad thing, because you can often find them a niche for the late game. For example, Raticate is an excellent catching Pokémon with its Super Fang; Jumpluff can hit first and Leech Seed + poison a tough enemy to slowly whittle it down while spamming Synthesis and Giga Drain to recover; Bibarel is an excellent HM slave. The only lesson you learn from Magcargo is to never use Magcargo. First, it's a pain to get Slugma, a Pokémon with a base stat total of 250, up to level 38: just so you know, 250 is the same base stat total of Hoppip, Bidoof, Smeargle and Marrill, and you'll be stuck with such a horribly weak Pokémon for ages. Second, it's just not worth it. Many Pokémon who evolve at a similar level get a significant power spike: guess what, Magcargo doesn't. You have to wait until level 38 to obtain a Pokémon with a base stat total of 410 (430 from Gen VII on), which is slightly higher than that of a starter's middle evolution. 410 is also the same base stat total of Bibarel and Azumarill, but they evolve from their base form at level 15 and 18 respectively. Reaching that base stat total at that stage means being an extreme valuable team member in the early to mid-game, even if your stats will fall off after a while. But at level 38 it's too little, too late: by then, your starter Pokémon will have already reached its final stage, and Magcargo, like the proverbial snail that it is, will only then be on par with your starter Pokémon's middle evolution, pathetically lagging behind the rest of your team. In almost any stage of the game, Slugma and Magcargo will only be dead weight. And then there's the availability issue. In GSC you can only get Slugma in the post-game, meaning your chance of using it will already be scant. But here's the thing: Houndour and Larvitar are also found in the post-game, and have become very popular nonetheless because they become very strong after evolving, and if you're patient enough to grind them up on par with the rest of your team, you'll have a veritable juggernaut of a Pokémon in your hands. Magcargo just doesn't get enough of a power spike to make it valuable enough. Now, RSE gives you Slugma before Flannery's gym, which is an improvement in availability, but you still have much better Fire type options in Torkoal and Numel, and you can catch them in the same places where you can get Slugma, meaning it will still be useless. HGSS paid some lip service to its possible use as an early game crutch Pokémon with the egg you can get in Violet City, but it's a very convoluted way to get a Pokémon that will be left in the dust by the second Gym. Having Slugma evolve 20 levels earlier, making it available in the early routes and giving it a better ability and more Special Rock-type moves would go a long way to improve its non-existent viability.
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Hey Woop, you forgot dry skin which would be a wonderful case of irony.
Hey Woop… doesss the C*rona ability (not the virusss, the homemade ability for Magcargo) ssspeed up egg hatching? Becaussse I’m pretty sssure that the only reassson anyone usssesss Magcargo isss for Masssuda breeding.
Seven year old me had a first time play through team of Chikorita, Noctowl, and Ledyba. I thought the game was impossible after Bugsy
my chicka got crit on a spearow the only mon I had so went back to my house...the game was telling me something XD
I love all those pokemon
I had to opposite journey, me and chikorita couldn’t pass bugsy since for some reason I kept using rock smash against scyther. I passed him by growing so comically powerful everything else was a cake walk. This was my first Pokémon game so it was super scuffed
I rocked the Noctowl on my first play through of gold and distinctly remember waiting for it to get better, but it just never did. Hit everything soft as hell 😂
@@orange6259 For a second I thought Rock Smash was a Rock-type move, so I was really confused about how you couldn't beat a Scyther with it
Why is this video edited like a creepypasta
It's not just me omg
The music and random b-reels of hallways and random spaces give it a weird feel combined with his deeper voice.
Aesthetic reasons I assume, I like it though
A creepypasta RUclipsr trapped in a Pokemon RUclipsrs body
This guy's vids are always wack like that
Gen 2’s new Pokemon are so well hidden I thought a lot of them were from gen 3. Magcargo fits so well being from Hoenn. Same goes for Misdreavus and Lanturn.
Honestly, Magcargo might as well be Gen 3 since it's basically nonexistent in Gen 2
Skarmory too
Whoever thought putting such a weak pokémon into the post game, have it evolve at level 37 or something and evolve into a poké with the BST of a second stage starter who has high defense which is worthless because of its myriads of (4x) weaknesses... seriously GF, what the hell.@@PokemonWoop
I always thought Magcargo and Skarmory were from gen 3 LOL
@@egotrips4810 I did as well.
Man, I'd love to see Noctowl get the Annihilape treatment with a new fearsome Flying/Ghost evo. Shift it to be the speedy physical attacker it could have been, and maybe Eviolite Noctowl can better perform the bulky support role it was intended for
right! Especially since as a flying type it’ll have access to roost (reliable recovery), something a lot of defensive Pokémon lack
I truly feel Noctowl should be a special attacker
Eh, I like it being a speedy special attacker but Flying/Ghost is cool
Think it's a good candidate for an Evo (maybe based on its bulky af beta design?) and Shadow Tag. Hypnosis/Nightmare/Roost/Air Slash would go hard with Eviolite and Shadow Tag 😁
Why make it physical if it can use Psychic type moves?
Make it an old, wise wizard owl with even higher sp def.
When I bought and first played Pokémon Silver as a child, I picked Chikorita. I loved Ivysaur in Pokémon Blue: it was a real threat with Sleep Powder and Razor Leaf _(I prevented it to evolve into Venusaur, because I thought it was diseased and suffering)._
At level 8, Chikorita learnt *Razor Leaf.* I was ecstatic: the best Grass-type moves this early? This is crazy! Bulbasaur used to be at least level 13 to learn the weaker *Vine Whip!* Then I quickly realized that the Critical Hit formula changed, and Razor Leaf wasn't as good.
The disappointment/deception grew bigger when I realized that Meganium wasn't a Fighter, but more a Support Pokémon. It learns Reflect, Light Screen and Safeguard, moves I removed or didn't learn. My child brain didn't compute that, on a game that was too easy to even need Support. It also learns Synthesis, which is useless when you have healing items. PoisonPowder and Body Slam were there to spread status. But where is Leech Seed, and mostly: Sleep Powder? What is the point of a Support Pokémon that don't have access to the most useful Support moves?!
In the end, my Meganium ended as a true Support Pokémon: it learnt Cut, Strength and Flash, taking some hit when needed so I could put some Revive on my Ampharos.
Chikorita is still PURE CRAP in Gen 2 Bulbasaur is still BETTER.
omfg the hm starter is actually brilliant. Feels awful but brilliant 😭😭
Meganium can be a real offensive threat with Earthquake/Swords Dance/ Body Slam/Synthesis. It can also actually get Leech Seed as an egg move. Ironically, for all the hate it gets, Meganium is actually the best starter of the first two games. None of the Gen 1 starters were OU when they hit the scene (except Venusaur for a hot minute in the early days, since it was a Sword Dance user that wasn't checked by Rhydon/Golem), Feraligatr got royally screwed by the physical/special split, and there's really no reason to use Typhlosion over most of the other fire types unless you REALLY need one that can run Dynamicpunch. Meganium tho? It can sweep with Swords Dance OR support with Dual screens and Leech Seed. Apart from Celebi (and arguably Victreebel), it's def the best grass type in GSC, and the best starter of the first 2 gens 😎
"My child brain couldn't compute that"
I think this is why the future grass starters stopped being support pokemon. Razor Leaf was still really good as its first STABS considering that by level up, the closest competition is Flame wheel learned by Quilava at level 31, which is still only 60 BP (Seriously, why is gen 2 Cyndaquil so bad, it doesn't even get Flamethrower until level 60)
@@veghesther3204Gen 2 Chikorita is pretty solid, it's Gen 4 Chikorita that should make you Vomit.
lanturn has been my favorite pokemon for 10 years so seeing it get some recognition makes me immensely happy
I like it too! It has some decent use in Radical Red
I've been replaying Crystal and it's done me well. It's a bit slow and it takes more exp to level up but it's very tanky and you get some amazing coverage if you manage to teach it Ice Beam from the guy who wants Casino coins on certain days of the week in Goldenrod.
Hell yeah. Best happy fishy
One of my faves too. It just looks so happy or carefree in all its artworks, makes me feel good when I catch one even if he's not so good.
it also solos lance
i think even Game Freak agrees that gen 2 mons are infamous for being underwhelming. Look at how many of them got a second chance in Hisui and Paldea. Evos for single stagers like Wyrdeer and Farigiraf, regional forms with Qwilfish and even paradox mons like Iron Bundle and Treads
It makes me wonder why they made so many filler Pokemon for Gen 2
@@PokemonWoop I've read somewhere that since it was their second game, gsc wasn't made when "generations" exist as a concept, so it was more of an expansion of rby rather than an entire new generation like rse would be
@@PokemonWoopThey were a bit pretentious and they though technology/impressive variety>quality
@@sebastiankulche When it came out, it worked quite well to be fair. GSC was for a long time the most beloved generation (until Sinnoh dropped i suppose)
And the many new features (day/night cycle, rebattling, events depending on the day etc) kinda glossed over the fact, that alot new Pokémon were actually awful. But it also fixed the typing errors and added two new types, even if they were criminally underused in their own game.
@@Aurirang I think GSC is like Crash Twinsanity in the fact that its a "take it or leave it" type of game. Not all people would click with its design aproach but the ones they do find its the best game ever. But thats a double edge sword that other games in the series didnt had. Even Gen 1 with all of its technical issues was a more "consistent" game, and thats the game you are not allowed to like.
I like how almost all these pokes are presented for you to snag in Colosseum 1 which ramps up the difficulty in that game given how little options they give you.
For Magcargo, Magma Armor could be reworked as a Water Bubble variant: increase Fire attacks's BP, make immune to freeze and halves damage from Water type attacks. Also maintain its field effect.
That way, it also helps Camerupt.
That’s….actually a really great idea. And would make this forgotten ability relevant again. Well done
@@thepokesannin4434 Thank you. =)
Still 2 times weak to water, and with magcargos special defense it’s dying anyways
This comment leaves all of the changes in the video without a job. It's strange nobody thought of this comparison earlier
@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 it dosent have to be unstoppable though, every mon needs a weakness
Gen 2 had so much potential but just didnt get what it deserved
I think it's kind of poetic that there are a lot of weaker Pokemon in Gen II while also being the same games that gave us the quote from Karen, "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites." While it is fun to theorize and speculate about making Pokemon stronger to the point that some people make entire fan games just to do so, I think it's also important to acknowledge that one of the most important things about this fandom is that every single Pokemon has at least one fan who has that Pokemon as their all-time favorite. Yeah, Sunflora may not have the best stats, but I've watched someone solo the entirety of Crystal with just one Sunflora as their only Pokemon, and it was amazing to see them take down Red with it at the end. Magcargo is one of my favorite fire types and I always have a lot of fun working around its weaknesses whenever I use one in a playthrough. Regardless it was a fun video and got me thinking about how we could change some other Pokemon as well, but it is also still nice to appreciate the Pokemon that we do have.
Lanturn doesn't really need to be fixed, imo. I've used it before and it performs great in Johto.
Yeah Lanturn was the MVP of my crystal nuzlocke
@@HawkySBI’ve played two nuzlockes, Gold and HG. Dunsparce was my Gold mvp
It would be better if Ice Beam and Thunderbolt were available before post-game in Crystal, but that's more of a problem with the game itself and not Lanturn.
@@Ferropexola1996 Yeah a lot of waters get screwed in gen 2 by locking ice beam and thunderbolt to post game. They don't typically have hands so they don't get thunder punch and ice punch like everyone else. Starmie is a great example of this. It gets surf then has to wait for after the E4 for psychic, ice beam, and thunderbolt.
I used Lanturn in a randomizer run and that one carried me, tank and a great coverage
I actually used Lanturn in my main team in Gen 4 and it did great. A bulky electric/water type with leftovers that absorbs water/electric attacks can resist a lot of turns. And it also can defend itself with a Surf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Toxic...
Lanturn in gen 4 is MUCH better than Lanturn in gen 2. Volt absorb in particular gives it a niche and great synergy with some common Pokémon like Gyarados.
In gen 2 all it really has going for it is electric typing/STAB, otherwise it’s a pretty average bulky ish water type. Maybe not as bad as some of the mons in this video but not great either
Imagine if it could two shot anything that isn't quad weak to it
@@LudiColorado It's still one of the better waters for an in game playthrough in gen 2. Stab water/electric is just really strong. Kind of like how quagsire is also really good with water/ground even though its stats are meh. If I had to rank it vs other waters it'd make the top 5, but only barely.
If you really want to shit on a gen 2 water type then look at corsola.
I feel like Magcargo's ability could have just been Dry Skin. It gives it a water immunity, its negative effect is counteracted by Mag's typing, and it makes enough sense considering Magcargo's body evaporating water.
Almost, except for the part where it loses 1/8 of it's HP during heatwaves and recovers 1/8 during rain.
@@EbuCallinav yeah given these mechanic's of dry skin...the ability just does not make sense on magcargo and in fact would instead completely go against it's typing
I really loved this video. The concept to help make these Pokémon better while being practical. Also, I loved the liminal aesthetic you did with the editing. By putting liminal space photos in the background, putting a grainy filter on the video, even putting a somber but familiar sounding music. I really loved the extra touch of the first few Pokémon getting they’re on transition and name. I wish the last few had those. Overall. Amazing video. I got this randomly in my recommended and do not regret watching this.
Even though my gen 3 Lanturn was surprisingly great, our boy definitely deserves more love
Yeah, Lanturn is pretty decent, but it has so much more potential!
They’re not bad Pokémon. They just grew up in the inner city and come from a broken home.
they r not good ppl. just grew up in the outer city n never knew wat home is. bypass them on ur way to nature 😆
"Itll just die to ground and water types". That 2 of 17 types. Its not unsalvagable at all
8:59 how would Earth Power help against Bug-types? Bug resists Ground.
Adding an additional type to our beloved Dino is interesting but doesn’t fit with the other gen two starters
Give Typhlosion Dragon Type and Feraligatr Dark Type would that work?
i don't think its nessisary for the starters to all have a single type or a duel type. i mean Charizard and Venasuar are both duel type while Blastoice is a single type
I thought Ledian was Bug/Fighting like Heracross, so I’m glad you made the change
Magcargo always made me sad tbh. Both it and Slugma have such a cool concept with being slugs (viscous animals) made of magma/lava (a viscous fluid). I’m also upset about its shiny. The pink is actually pretty good, but I’ve just always preferred its blue shiny from GSC
Pokémon and Bethesda games like fallout have one thing in common. They’re critically acclaimed games that have somehow stood the test of time, and the programmers for each game are somehow so inept that they can’t release a properly functioning game to save their lives.
I like Chikorita and buffing it is of real interest to me. But if it got a 2nd typing, I would pick Rock. It fits better with being a dino, the earlier it learns ancientpower the better, and the defensive profile is neat as well.
Yeah, now that you mention it, Johto needs more rock types
And there is the thing that Meganium getting Rock would also eliminate two weaknesses (I am saying 2, since while it loses Fire, Poison and Flying as a weakness, it gains Fighthing).
@@nickdentoom1173 And steel, but only Jasmine's Steelix threatens with iron tail. In the end 2 resistances and 4 weaknesses sounds worse than it is.
Hey dude! Magcargo kind of got fixed in the Teal Mask dlc for gen 9! Obviously it's still old crumby Margo, but they finally gave it Power Gen instead of the awful Ancient Power. And with Shell Smash and Weak Armor, one wrong blow to Magcargo that doesn't kill it can make it snowball out of control, making it impossibly fast and hits harder than a drunk mother.
For gen 2 Margo though... yeah he is very hard to fix.
I soloed the game with a Ledian. At me.
Honestly given later Gen movesets giving Magcargo access to Shell Smash, all you could really add on is making Simple an available ability for it which could allow it to explode into some real battle potential.
I think Grass/Electric would be a better fit for sunflora. It fits its colour palet and shape much better as looks more or less like lieutenant Surge's gym badge, and it wouldn't be illogical with it being a sort of natural solarpannel. ideally it could really use an evolution, it looks pityfully weak as it is.
Unown was in the cover art but never got mentioned. Give my eldritch letter eyes some love!
I think for Ledian having its attack increased to like 50 but giving it huge power as an ability (since insects are known to be strong for their size and because of the sentai super hero theme) then give it like +10 HP and +10 Def while making it fighting and bug would be good
I still dream of a grass and dragon mega meganium with multiscale as an ability. now that will be an amazing upgrade
That would be a beast
Hello! I thought I’d mention this, I played through Pokemkn Heartgold with only Shinies recently and decided to breed for a shiny Chikorita with Ancient Power and Leech Seed. She was absolutely incredible. Pretty solid in Jhoto, and absolutely broken in Kanto.
There's a romhack called Emerald ROWE that I played that was basically Pokemon emerald with updated mechanics, Pokemon up to gen 7, and of course some tweaks to some Pokemon. Lantern had 3 things that made me decide to use it. 1: a slight boost to stats. I think it just got a little special atk. 2: Tail Glow, which is like what you said. Finally, 3: illuminate had a massive buff. It raises the user's accuracy by 1 stage when it's sent into battle, thus making those low accuracy moves extremely viable.
I think these pokemon are plenty usable, if you use them right.
Meganium is a pretty decent screen-setter that can be annoyingly bulky or fill a cleric role with aromatherapy;
Lanturn sits in an odd spot with Seaking where it's one of very few pokemon who can resist Boltbeam coverage through its ability (and STAB Thunder in the rain at least hits decent while also having water type moves be boosted)
Magcargo has gotten Shell Smash and Explosion over the years and honestly, I've had a lot of funny moments using one in the past. I sincerely love the funny meme snail.
Sunflora
Ledian can actually set screens too, while being a tad more aggressive than Meganium (It doesn't have the bulk or cleric options, so it has nothing to do other than u-turn or use something boosted by iron fist)
Noctowl actually sees some use in GSC UU as a reflect user that can put things to sleep and spam night shade with an alternative Curse set (which is very funny)
as you can see, they can all have a use in lower tiers if you try hard enough and are willing to put in a little bit of work :D stay gameing, gamers
Sunflora.
That is all
Yeah I couldn't think of anything good to say about it lol
Some mons get completely screwed over in playthroughs by their learnsets. Either they get good moves way too late, never get anything, or start with decent moves and never get anything more. It would make sense if you had to use TMs to make good pokemon truly good - like a hidden gem - but usually strong pokemon just get given good learnsets while the mid mons have to rely on TMs, just to still be weaker. Just one of the reasons why Game Freak just aren't good at game design overall, they have a few nice ideas here and there but the consistency is nonexistent.
This might be a bit much but I think Drought would fit Magcargo really well. I figured that’s where you we going with helping it out against water and it is hotter than the sun.
For gen 4 please fix Purugly. It’s my favorite Pokémon. It’s surprisingly fast and that’s pretty much all it has going for it.
Thankfully at the very least, Dunsparce finally got an evolution. And there have actually been quite a few Pokémon from the Johto Region and Gen 2 who have finally gotten much needed evolutions. But it definitely would be cool for some of them to just get better stats, better typings, and better moves. They could just do the whole Sneasle and Sneasler treatment with a regional variant of some form.
To be fair Ledian's Pokedex entry mentions that it's punches aren't very strong so even if Ledian did get a buff it likely wouldn't get that much more attack
This backs onto Zen Mode's Ledian video really well.
Great video! Awesome retro aesthetic and all of the suggestions made the pokemon so much more interesting, I really like the Magcargo improvements
I want to learn more about Sunflora's planned evolution. :(
I think Ledian deserves a better typing, Bug/Fairy since its supposed to be alien, just like Clefairy.
And give it a signature ability called "Shielded Fists", making physical contact moves use its Special Defense as its Attack stat!
Sadly grass types in Johto unless they change the gym and have it set later on or earlier, any pure grass type will suck.
Making Meganium a second type would be the only way. Fairy or Dragon make more sense to its deaign imo.
I would've loved to be there when they were making the games, asking why most new mons are in Kanto or the stat distribution.
Shadow ball reducing special defense and so on.
Wonder what was going through their minds.
My guess is that since GS were meant to be the last games, they wanted the Gen 2 Pokemon to not be their own thing, but just an extension to the original 151
I love your suggestion for chikorita. I recently started a hg playthrough and picked it because i thought it was thr cutest out of the starters but effectively became dead weight compared to the rest of my team. I wish they made some sort of change for it as I like the design of it more than the other starters.
Haha, I can relate to that feeling! I chose Chikorita in a gold playthrough for fun and my god it only having Body Slam and Razor Leaf was annoying
8:16 It's not cliché at all, especially considering that, had a certain recent Pokémon that nobody genuinely likes snatched up that typing first, Grass/Fire would be a truly unique type combination that'd make Sunflora stand out from every other Grass-type.
Sunflora really deserves these buffs, but GAME FREAK will never do that because that would make too much sense. The only realistic love they'll ever give it is an evolution which, again with mentioning Paldea, it had its opportunity to get one *RIGHT THERE,* especially with the focus it got in that one Gym Challenge, but nope, it got *NOTHING.*
One rom hack I played made Meganium a Grass-Fairy type. I think that would be better than essentially a re-skinned Torterra
I always wanted Meganium to get a very good signature move. Like "Worldtree" that sets up both Sun and Grassy terrain at the same time.
TFS's famous Soul Silver Nuzlocke used Meganium, Magcargo, and Lanturn quite nemorably.
Especially Meganium oh god.
Though again this was Soul Silver, not regular Silver, so they got to benefit from the fourth gen upgrades.
Pokemon Crystal Legacy fixed the bad pokemon with small buffs or movepool changes to make them somewhat viable. Its a good romhack
Ariados is really painful to me, it's one of my favorite. It just has such awful stats for what it should be. Not only is it Bug/Poison, but it is SO slow. The only good thing it gets is sticky web, but it just isn't worthwhile and there are much better sticky web options.
Man out here hypothetically improving Pokémon while giving inspirational speeches
the thing about ledian isn't just that it's bad in the same way beedrill and butterfree are bad, it's bad because the part of the game where it's supposed to be used is actively designed against it's usage.
The idea of an early and relatively strong defensive mon is incredibly promising. Ledian gets access to screens to support the team, and baton pass paired with agility and silver wind to further encourage empowering fellow mons. In gen 2, it can even learn curse to mitigate that awful defense. Ledian _could_ be a great early bug type as is, teaching players that power isn't everything.
The problem is that ledian never gets these options early enough to be worth using over better options, and it's existing tools in the meantime are actively designed against by it's premier region. Most opponents early game will focus on physical attacks, neutering it's defining defensive trait. The most value you'll get offensively is hoping that the enemy magically hits themselves over actually doing damage. That could be fine if it got better moves and stats in due time, but it evolves level _18_ , and gets screens even later in gsc. So much for a poor mans butterfree. And once you finally reach the peak of it's power, guess what offensive move the upcoming gym leader's ace has. All that just for your one niche to be canceled out because everyone else can learn screens at this point.
The problem with ledian isn't really ledian, it's johto's addiction to screwing it over. My fix would be to give it many of it's best options much earlier, including reducing it's level requirement to evolve. If i had to make one core adjustment, i would balance out it's defenses so it can actually take attacks on it's own.
@ 7:00
Manaphy also learns Tail Glow, but it doesn’t have a light on its tail. It’s actually the Antennae. So Lantern getting isn’t controversial so much as a much needed buff that would make it busted in the lower tiers.
So, magma armor is (funnily) the signature ability of magcargo and camerupt. So you can just buff the ability too the corona effects. Camerupt has the same problems, so it will be grateful for that too (2 volcano pokemon, being 4x weak to water LOL)
Don’t give Meganium a secondary typing. Give it access to Psychic via level up for poison types along with Leech Seed and Sleep Powder. Then you can give it 10 points into SpA to make it on par with the other starters
Seriously, you can tell they had NO idea a still what they were dling with typing. Or rather, they HAD an idea, but then guttes them on release. Grass/psychic would have been cool, and Ledyan's OG design is so RAW and yet its typing and stats made it my most disappointing catch as a kid.
One thing to note about Meganium is that while it doesn't have any great matchups against any of the bosses, it does well enough into Whitney's Miltank and Clair's Kingdra, who are generally 2 of the hardest pokemons you have to face-off, making so that while it's not great most of the adventure, it's good at the hardest times (which is also why I don't like Meganium gaining the ground type too much since it makes it less resilient to the hydro pumps from Clair's Kingdra).
Oh my gosh, Ledian has one of my favorite designs yet I can’t help but HATE it due to how much it sucks. I think with these buffs it’d be my favorite Pokémon (second maybe to Heracross)
There is one good way of fixing Magcargo in gen 2, and that's giving it an evolution, which, in addition to a hefty stat boost, would be a good opportunity to change its typing, particularly to FIRE/ STEEL. This does make sense since Magcargo is based on volcano snails, also known as scaly-foot snails.
"The scaly-foot snail is the only organism known to incorporate metals (in the form of iron sulphides) into its ‘skeleton’, both into itsshell, and into the hundreds of external scales which give it its name."
This would mean he's still prone to getting one-shot by EQ but atleast he's no longer guaranteed to die to a single water move. Plus he gains a ton of other resistances that rock lacks.
Chikorita is easily the best starter for Whitney's gym. Not because of type matchups, but because of its bulky stats combined with the move reflect, which you are very likely to have by the third gym. This allows you to easily outlast the Miltank's rollout onsalught. So unless the Clefairy rolls a strong fire move, or some other weakness, Bayleaf can probably sweep the gym without too much trouble.
Slugma were expelled from the nearby volcano to the cycling route
In First Johto team in SoulSilver, I wanted a shiny starter, so 9 month story short i ended with a shiny Chikorita. Idk how or why but that thing was EXTREMELY good, as someone who heard all about about how bad it was, i was shocked by how fun it was to use (btw the full team were all very fun, Meganium, Apharos, Yanmega, Togekiss, Quagsire,Tyranitar)
**Chuckles in using Magcargo, Meganium and Lanturn in one playthrough recently**
Ariados needs Stakeout and First Impression. It would be such a great niche for that Pokémon and fits with the lore, just have that ability replace Sniper. And then I would also give it Intimidate over Swarm, which also fits the lore. And then the last buff would be to make Toxic Thread a spread move. Now you have a Pokémon that can switch in and on turn one lower attack, lower speed, and poison both opponents. Or, alternatively, you can come in and use a powerful boosted priority move that is actually strong enough to take out a special defensive Blissey in one hit (or knock a physically defensive one down to 50%). You could also pair Stakeout with moves like Fell Stinger or Loaded Dice Pin Missile for all sorts of shenanigans. Ariados has the potential to be really good, and I think the developers have a soft spot for it because whenever it pops up it always gets a slight little buff. I think these are the changes that would put it over the edge to being something people would want to use.
Also, Magma Armor could receive a change to work more like Water Bubble. It could grant an immunity to freeze and then make all Water and Ice moves deal 1/3 damage to you and your ally. That doesn't fix the Water problem completely, but helps immensely all the same. I mean, magma should still be affected by water and this gives Magcargo a neat trait of being a good doubles partner for specific Pokemon
I wish these buffs were true id love them. I would maybe change corona so that it burns the opponent when it uses a water type move instead of on contact. Magcargo is so got it fills the battlefield with hot steam when hit with water. That way its not flame body+
Gen 2 was weird. I remember a guy outside of the first tunnel taking my Pokémon because it had mail attached to it. And I recall something weird about the trade Shuckle too
i chose chikorita as my starter in my most recent playthru of crystal and, while it wasn’t easy, it did end up dealing the final blow on lance’s charizard. never been more satisfied playing pokémon.
Magcargo, Unown , and Sunflora are easily the worst ones here. Magcargo is outclassed completly by two other fire rock types nowadays and even with a stat buff it got a few gens back, its useless. unown really needs a wishwashi form like the movies had where its just a mass of letters, even if it's only until half health. Sunflora not getting an evolution in the newest gen surprised me when it had a whole gym around it. I really think it should have been the first fire grass type if it get an evolution.
Unown's lore should've been expanded upon with some cool form if you collected all 26 in Gen 2
Im 30, still playing pkmn today (mostly RRed Hack Rom). Gold was and still is my fav game of the series. I even remember my team, Typhlosion/Gengar/Flareon/Sandslash/Gyarados/Omastar ❤
Low key waiting for Lantern to get an evolution so it can be a monster with Eviolite
Ledyba + Ledian should've been Bug/Normal to give them STAB on all the star-shaped moves they get as their theme, & in Gen 2 that would've been a better STAB setup
Noctowl is weird, it honestly needs an evo or better stats. Adding Psychic type just seems it make it a worse Xatu & also weak to Ghost. It's another Slowbro vs Golduck scenario. I'd argue Ghost/Flying makes the most sense in Gen 2 terms & only Drifblim gets it later
I disagree with the Meganium type change because the GSC starters are all pure. Instead I'd mainly focus on giving it better tools to deal with the gym challenge & rockets. Chikorita with a decent normal move like Swift could handle Gyms 1 & 2 & the rivals Zubat easier, followed by getting Dig could handle Morty easier
During years I thought Magcargo was from Hoenn
Sunflora having a base 30 Speed is something I would love to see stay. If they removed Chlorophyll and made it far more bulky or made an evolution that was for more bulky you could use the base 30 Speed for Trick Room. Having Speed this low is a good Trick Room benchmark and that would be nice on a slower hard hitting Fire/Grass type. Trick Room needs things under a Base Speed of 45. I love dropping under that benchmark. You could easily give it a better Ability that replaces Chlorophyll so we keep a slow bulky damage dealer. Fire/Grass would be amazing for that. I have wanted a Fire version of Storm Drain for years now and this could be a fun Ability for a slow bulky Fire/Grass type. Or any of the other plant Abilities that could help a Trick Room set.
A Fire-type or Rock-type priority move perhaps could've made Magcargo less of a joke in Gen II than it turned out to be. Buffing its base speed to 45 also wouldn't have made it fast by any means but would've given it a chance to outspeed Rhydon and speed-tie Golem, which would've given it more of a fighting chance.
It was almost built to be a failure from the start sadly...
currently playing Pokemon Setting Sun, in which they made Ledian Bug/Fighting and implement a lot of the changes listed here like iron fist and higher stats to boot, lots of fun.
One of the reasons I love Gen 5: the early game bugs are actually good for an entire playthrough
Nah bro no way you gave magcargo Corona 💀
I would go as far as to say meganium doesn't even need the extra type just a better movepool. With a possible let's go johto game, they will inevitably add modern tms into the mix.
Makes me happy to see love for forgot gen2 Pokémon like Ledian and Magcarco, they deserve attention
Would honestly love to see Feraligator get a Water/Poison typing to go with Meganium's Grass/Ground, and then Typhlosion getting Fire/Fairy type.
what are you smokin bro
@@doozsromhacks The absolute good shit.
Edit: I genuinely despise solid typings nowadays for starters. Just feels... I don't know. Just makes the starters not unique since they're ALWAYS going to be Fire, Grass, or Water.
Just a small correction for Meganium. It’s good against Bruno’s onix and that wasn’t mentioned.
I like your ideas. Here are some of my thoughts:
Meganium: Take away Poison Powder and put in Sleep Powder(2:11). Next, swap out Safeguard for Spore. Meganium's dex entries is all about soothing the enemies will to battle. Sleep fits in well with this definition. With the addition of Leech Seed, Meganium has a lot of staying power especially if it holds Leftovers. Giga Drain can be added for max healing. This gives Meganium a reason to take in the late game.
Noctowl: I disagree that having Noctowl as a Dark/Flying would not be interesting because of Murkcrow(4:25). Murkcrow is a glass cannon. Noctowl is a much slower Pokémon that dishes out and takes special attack damage well.
Lanturn: Totally agree.
Sunkern: I would add Will-O-Wisp. Something interesting about Sunkern is that it does not learn the standard powder moves like other Grass types. Because Sunkern is a Fire/Grass type, I figured it would be a good trade off for not learning powder moves. The burn condition would allow Sunkern to take physical hits better as well. Burn can be combined with Leech Seed for decent passive damage.
Ledian: What do you think about giving Ledian Skill Link? It fits the cosmic theme a little better and can give Ledian a unique niche if we give Ledian Pin Missile. In the early game, Ledian can launch powerful Comet Punches to do good damage and break Substitutes. Around the 50s, Ledian can learn Pin Missile. With the buffs you gave Ledian(10:16), Ledian becomes a solid counter against Psychic and Dark types.
Magcargo: Farfetch'd sticks this one is difficult! I would give it Solid Rock, but the dex is all about its brittle shell. The best I can come up with is giving Magcargo Aftermath and Explosion. Intense fire does shoot from the gaps in Magcargos' shell. If the shell were to be broken by a KO, it is reasonable to assume that a lot of fire will be immediately released. With a Focus Sash, Magcargo can reliably take the enemy Pokémon down with it using Explosion.
I honestly feel like Magcargo should have Drought. I mean it states that it is hotter than the sun in its dex entry. I gave it Drought in the rom hack I’m making to give it a reason to be looked at
In defense of Meganium in Gen 2 specifically: Meganium despite it's poor match ups does still have something going for it, support. With high bulk and learning Reflect at level 12, it can almost always get off a reflect to support the rest of the team, which is useful when all 6 of the first gym leaders, as well as the poison types of team rocket are all physical. This seems to be a very intentional choice as Bulbasaur in the previous game also heavily focused on support, only for Chikorita's poor reception to start a trend of grass starters all being attackers like the fire and water starters, a trend that generally hasn't worked out for them due to all the types that resist them. A shame since in a skilled hand Chikorita can still put in a lot of work.
This being said, throw all of this out the window in HGSS. Falkner is a prime example of the game not really considering Chikorita and its tool set anymore. Chikorita has lost access to Reflect at a reasonable level, in return for gaining poison powder. A fair trade off until you realize that they decided to give Falkner a stalling move with Roost, not that Reflect would've helped against him after the physical special split. Chikorita went from having some tools to help against early enemies, to just not. And even Chikorita's superior early game neutral power is undercut by Quilava getting Flame Wheel a whole 11 levels earlier in the remakes, and Typhlosion getting Flamethrower at level 42 instead of 60. The Totodile line got similar buffs with Ice Fang and Aqua Tail, but for some reason, not only did Chikorita not get similar buffs, it actually seemingly got nerfed, with Body Slam going from level 31 to level 46, in exchange for what? An extremely risky option in Petal Dance? The Chikorita line isn't actually that bad in the original games, but it was absolutely done dirty.
In Gen 2-3, meganium, having leech seed is fine, and yes, Absorb, Mega Drain then Giga Drain would be consistent
Gen 4 onwards, hoping safeguard buff to also protect from self confusion
Magcargo with quick claw and overheat=glass cannon
Huh. Mind if I snitch your Ledian rework for my fan game? It'd make a really nice regional form.
Also, 100% agree that making Noctowl a Ghost-type is ridiculous.
at this point, the best thing for the Slugma family is the Clodsire treatment,
Give Slugma a regional form and evolves into something else, there is a reason why Coalossal is the better Fire/Rock type with all that HP.
13:58 I'd gonna wait untill ORAS and give it desolate land, achieving the same effect and also giving his fire type moves a boost on top of stab due to its lackluster offensive stats
No towel has always been my favorite Pokémon. Idk why but the high hp and decent special defense with hypnosis and dream eater managed to get me through most of the game
Wait, Noctowl can't learn Icy Wind via TM in Gen 2?
...huh, now that I've checked, most Flying types can't learn it. Weird. I thought it'd be a somewhat widespread move just because it's wind-based.
I feel like Meganium would have benefitted more from a Dragon typing instead of Ground due to its Sauropod heritage.
Ledian has been my favorite non-starter since Gen 3, I just wish it was good.
Lanturn is good, but is just powercrept. Needs stats buff
If we were strictly keeping to what abilities are in the game, Solid Rock is a nice alternative. Give at least a little more meat to the guy and he can hang with his fellow slow man rhyperior
Fantastic video man keep up the great work ur format is rlly fun and unique and ur commentary is precise and to the point, stick with it man!
They should just give Marcargo the desolate lands ability and a mega more powerful than rayquazas. I think that would be very cool and balanced and based
I know it's a new ability thats not in gen 2. But imagine if magcargo got earth eater. It kinda fits some snails do eat minerals and helps with its weakness.
About Magcargo: its terrible typing, awful stat distribution and mediocre base stat total aren't necessarily a death sentence. Its unnecessarily late evolution is.
It's like Game Freak didn't quite know what to make of Slugma and Magcargo: their location and evolution level seem to be in line with a late-game powerhouse evolutionary line's, but their stats are more in line with an early game crutch Pokémon's.
Early route crutch Pokémon are there to teach you a valuable lesson: not every Pokémon will remain strong throughout the game, but this doesn't have to be an entirely bad thing, because you can often find them a niche for the late game. For example, Raticate is an excellent catching Pokémon with its Super Fang; Jumpluff can hit first and Leech Seed + poison a tough enemy to slowly whittle it down while spamming Synthesis and Giga Drain to recover; Bibarel is an excellent HM slave. The only lesson you learn from Magcargo is to never use Magcargo.
First, it's a pain to get Slugma, a Pokémon with a base stat total of 250, up to level 38: just so you know, 250 is the same base stat total of Hoppip, Bidoof, Smeargle and Marrill, and you'll be stuck with such a horribly weak Pokémon for ages.
Second, it's just not worth it. Many Pokémon who evolve at a similar level get a significant power spike: guess what, Magcargo doesn't. You have to wait until level 38 to obtain a Pokémon with a base stat total of 410 (430 from Gen VII on), which is slightly higher than that of a starter's middle evolution. 410 is also the same base stat total of Bibarel and Azumarill, but they evolve from their base form at level 15 and 18 respectively. Reaching that base stat total at that stage means being an extreme valuable team member in the early to mid-game, even if your stats will fall off after a while.
But at level 38 it's too little, too late: by then, your starter Pokémon will have already reached its final stage, and Magcargo, like the proverbial snail that it is, will only then be on par with your starter Pokémon's middle evolution, pathetically lagging behind the rest of your team. In almost any stage of the game, Slugma and Magcargo will only be dead weight.
And then there's the availability issue.
In GSC you can only get Slugma in the post-game, meaning your chance of using it will already be scant. But here's the thing: Houndour and Larvitar are also found in the post-game, and have become very popular nonetheless because they become very strong after evolving, and if you're patient enough to grind them up on par with the rest of your team, you'll have a veritable juggernaut of a Pokémon in your hands. Magcargo just doesn't get enough of a power spike to make it valuable enough.
Now, RSE gives you Slugma before Flannery's gym, which is an improvement in availability, but you still have much better Fire type options in Torkoal and Numel, and you can catch them in the same places where you can get Slugma, meaning it will still be useless.
HGSS paid some lip service to its possible use as an early game crutch Pokémon with the egg you can get in Violet City, but it's a very convoluted way to get a Pokémon that will be left in the dust by the second Gym.
Having Slugma evolve 20 levels earlier, making it available in the early routes and giving it a better ability and more Special Rock-type moves would go a long way to improve its non-existent viability.