Wow.. extremely good analysis I never knew that, thank you for breaking it down like this and sharing your knowledge Thank you Nyoken, I watch a lot of your vods on home of starcraft channel.
The info is somehow useful. However most important thing is how to micro your Goliath. In situation that Goliath can shots the mother ships directly just shot the carrier body. If not, always move Goliath to maximum range. Right click -> hold position-> Right click ->hold position. Remember, right click Goliath move in move out their max range, hold position will make them shoot at max range. If you can adjust you max shooting range area of your Goliath with 2-3 interceptor (as little as possible) just hold position and all your Goliath will focus fire on one interceptor. That's the key kill interceptor ...
It is worth noting that missiles gain +2 per upgrade versus Large targets, meaning targeting the carrier itself might be a good choice if they give you that opportunity. A 3/3 goliath does 9 damage per missile versus the hull of a 3/3 carrier, versus only 6 damage when both are 0/0. Against interceptors it breaks even with matching upgrades, as you stated in the video.
Very interesting for a bw player, but could u also make some info video on goliaths vs carrier micr0,o when to hit the interceptors and when to hit carriers and how to do hit and run kiting, that would be helpfull.
If this video taught me anything, it's that you shouldn't focus on the interceptors. I mean, who the hell is going to try to focus fire on an interceptor? You have to slow down the game play just to make it easy. And since you can't focus fire, then the spread fire is just gonna drop their shields below 10 and they will return to the carrier with more energy and full shields again. Sadly, I don't think Terran has a hard counter for Carriers when they're used properly (hiding behind terrain that Goliaths can't see or reach). The best I've thought of was just to add a Covert Ops to your Science Facility, research Lockdown, and train a few Ghosts. If the Carriers are on higher ground, you still need a flying unit or building (or Comsat Scan) to gain vision, but once they're locked down, your Goliaths (or even a Nuke) will make quick work of them. If you're successful early on, your opponent will stop Carrier production, which is a huge win in it of itself.
But protoss would actually need to upgrade atk AND armor to "negate" terrans upgrades, because attack is also important to kill tanks in 1 volley (that's why armor is actually pretty good and important upgrade for terran mech vs carriers aswell) . And it's very important to kill stuff in one volley because if u don't ur interceptors will be out for longer time and get shot more.
I agree that protoss should get both upgrades if possible. Just like terran wants to kill interceptors ASAP protoss also wants to kill units ASAP because of what you said. The less time interceptors are out, the more likely it is that they are going to survive. I have had a game where protoss went to +2 armor before getting damage and like you said because his DPS was too low he couldn't actually kill my units even though his interceptors were not dying as fast. I mentioned getting armor when terran is getting +3 because I feel like you need some sort of balance. I've noticed a big difference between games where I have +3 weapon and the protoss has +0 armor (and +3 weapon), compared to if I have +3 weapon and protoss has +2 armor (with +2 or +3 weapon) Interceptors just melt without armor. If I'm in a game and I see protoss has +0 or +1 armor I basically always try to fight them before their +2 hits.
I think you should use hold position, but you have to be careful about using that because sometimes the goliaths will stop shooting if the carriers move out of sight, for example over a wall
Nyoken did this video deliberately to make Protoss feel OP. In fact, since Protoss ground army sucks vs. Terran ground army, Protoss have to have advantage in air. I never knew these facts about interceptors.
>Protoss ground army sucks vs. Terran ground army The only ground Terran unit that can go toe-to-toe with a ground Protoss unit is a Tank vs a Dragoon. And the Tank requires 1 more structure than a Dragoon. Also, a Tank will die to Protoss' very first attack unit it can produce. That's just a microcosm of how powerful Protoss' units are. What you're mostly complaining about is that Terran has good chemistry where one or two units cover up the weakness of another unit, while that unit covers up the weaknesses of those units, and the ability to micro the units. It's sad that people complain when they can just 1a2a3a and still win games while another race has to micro, position properly, and limit mistakes in order to just to make it even.
I play Starcraft so many years and never realize this !!! Tks pro
Wow.. extremely good analysis
I never knew that, thank you for breaking it down like this and sharing your knowledge
Thank you Nyoken, I watch a lot of your vods on home of starcraft channel.
wow.. thank you so much for educating a noob like me
The info is somehow useful. However most important thing is how to micro your Goliath. In situation that Goliath can shots the mother ships directly just shot the carrier body. If not, always move Goliath to maximum range. Right click -> hold position-> Right click ->hold position. Remember, right click Goliath move in move out their max range, hold position will make them shoot at max range. If you can adjust you max shooting range area of your Goliath with 2-3 interceptor (as little as possible) just hold position and all your Goliath will focus fire on one interceptor. That's the key kill interceptor ...
It is worth noting that missiles gain +2 per upgrade versus Large targets, meaning targeting the carrier itself might be a good choice if they give you that opportunity. A 3/3 goliath does 9 damage per missile versus the hull of a 3/3 carrier, versus only 6 damage when both are 0/0. Against interceptors it breaks even with matching upgrades, as you stated in the video.
Great work!
Very interesting for a bw player, but could u also make some info video on goliaths vs carrier micr0,o when to hit the interceptors and when to hit carriers and how to do hit and run kiting, that would be helpfull.
If this video taught me anything, it's that you shouldn't focus on the interceptors. I mean, who the hell is going to try to focus fire on an interceptor? You have to slow down the game play just to make it easy. And since you can't focus fire, then the spread fire is just gonna drop their shields below 10 and they will return to the carrier with more energy and full shields again.
Sadly, I don't think Terran has a hard counter for Carriers when they're used properly (hiding behind terrain that Goliaths can't see or reach). The best I've thought of was just to add a Covert Ops to your Science Facility, research Lockdown, and train a few Ghosts. If the Carriers are on higher ground, you still need a flying unit or building (or Comsat Scan) to gain vision, but once they're locked down, your Goliaths (or even a Nuke) will make quick work of them. If you're successful early on, your opponent will stop Carrier production, which is a huge win in it of itself.
Thanks for the video Nyoken! I will use this info for Aiur :)
Please don't :)
But protoss would actually need to upgrade atk AND armor to "negate" terrans upgrades, because attack is also important to kill tanks in 1 volley (that's why armor is actually pretty good and important upgrade for terran mech vs carriers aswell) . And it's very important to kill stuff in one volley because if u don't ur interceptors will be out for longer time and get shot more.
I agree that protoss should get both upgrades if possible. Just like terran wants to kill interceptors ASAP protoss also wants to kill units ASAP because of what you said. The less time interceptors are out, the more likely it is that they are going to survive. I have had a game where protoss went to +2 armor before getting damage and like you said because his DPS was too low he couldn't actually kill my units even though his interceptors were not dying as fast.
I mentioned getting armor when terran is getting +3 because I feel like you need some sort of balance. I've noticed a big difference between games where I have +3 weapon and the protoss has +0 armor (and +3 weapon), compared to if I have +3 weapon and protoss has +2 armor (with +2 or +3 weapon) Interceptors just melt without armor. If I'm in a game and I see protoss has +0 or +1 armor I basically always try to fight them before their +2 hits.
Need to EMP that carrier group to give your goliaths a fighting chance.
Nyoken
When you fight carrier with goliath do you use hold position? Or use attack button?
Which command makes them shoot fastest when microing?
I think you should use hold position, but you have to be careful about using that because sometimes the goliaths will stop shooting if the carriers move out of sight, for example over a wall
1 shield + 1 armor is better than 2 armor.
Nyoken did this video deliberately to make Protoss feel OP. In fact, since Protoss ground army sucks vs. Terran ground army, Protoss have to have advantage in air. I never knew these facts about interceptors.
>Protoss ground army sucks vs. Terran ground army
The only ground Terran unit that can go toe-to-toe with a ground Protoss unit is a Tank vs a Dragoon. And the Tank requires 1 more structure than a Dragoon.
Also, a Tank will die to Protoss' very first attack unit it can produce. That's just a microcosm of how powerful Protoss' units are.
What you're mostly complaining about is that Terran has good chemistry where one or two units cover up the weakness of another unit, while that unit covers up the weaknesses of those units, and the ability to micro the units.
It's sad that people complain when they can just 1a2a3a and still win games while another race has to micro, position properly, and limit mistakes in order to just to make it even.
Who knew that upgrades made your units more cost effective? WHO KNEW
There always at least 1 guy who makes a comment like this on literally every single broodwar video ever. I wonder why..