CH is the IAF for this approach. If you're coming into CH from the east, in order to leave CH on radial 270 outbound what you do is a PROCEDURE TURN. You break off into the holding pattern on heading 120, start the clock, and after the minute turn left into CH. That will align you nicely with radial 270.
I was in Hong Kong in 1996. Yeah, the dramatic landing at Kai Tak Airport was a good introduction to the Hong Kong Beat. When the plane was coming down to land, look out the window at the ground, and the shoddy and packed apartment blocks get closer and closer, and your eyes get bigger and bigger. And then suddenly, they disappear and one sees grass, and then the runway. Looking sideways out the window, would see the ocean nearby.
@louisekaille A non instrument rated lasts less than 3 minutes in IMC weather before braking the plane apart and crashing, so those instruments are worth more than any "instincts" a pilot has. Instinct is something cool you hear about in movies. The most important thing when flying is experience.
@FF35Pilot GPS points are not random points, they can all be reached by using VOR's or other nav equipment, it is a little complicated and you have to have had your IFR training. I have no idea about the POSKY 777, do a search for it here on youtube.
@FF35Pilot You can switch from Thathong VOR to Cheung Chau VOR as soon as you are established on that 268 radial from the Thathong VOR or at the half way point. Either way by the time you get to Cheung Chau VOR you should have the Cheung Chau VOR dialed in.
@FSX404 Yeh, well with approaches like that (the EGLL approach plate also has no IAFs, but it states that 'acft will usually be vectored from holding patterns or arrival points' so technically, the TH VOR is the unofficial IAF.
Question/assertion here. If you used the proper IAF, you cannot just hit the Cheung Chau VOR and turn to start the approach. If you’re not properly aligned with the 270 course, per ICAO, you need to fly the charted holding pattern using a direct, parallel, or teardrop entry procedure to align yourself with the 270 course. That also engages your issue of flying this approach at high true air speeds. Remember, 747s used to fly this. They most likely did it the proper way, either by using the arrival plate or getting a vector to the course. If I’m wrong here, please let me know, and let me know why - we’re all here to learn!
Its been a while since I created this and Im trying to remember why I didnt use Cheung Chau VOR and one of the entries which should work. I believe I wanted folks to concentrate on the approach rather than entry procedures which is one of the most complicated lessons. Thathong VOR presented an easy way to bypass that. I real life my guess is that all planes were vectored to Cheung Chou VOR.
Awesome briefing! I got the Flytampa scenery for Kai Tak but I have a problem and I didn't find any forum topics or such on how to solve it. I get big red squares on both sides of runway and one on the middle of it. Wonder what I need to do to solve that. I tried reinstalling but it didn't help. I don't know where to ask so I posted here. The rest of the scenery works fine.
@FF35Pilot I took a quick look at the ILS or LOC RWY 15 approach, I didn't find the ILS/DME approach, and from a quick glance at it it lloks like you need two VOR's and a DME to fly this approach.
@wisnu1231 Well, you can't chose your own altitudes, otherwise we wouldn't need approach plates. You have to follow it withing +/- 100 feet (200 feet in the simulator) if you want to do it right.
@FSX404 i see what you mean by unrealistic flight dynamics... I did an aileron roll in my 747just after takeoff at VHHH without crashing. I think I'll probably get the wilco airbus series, not too expensive, well reviewed, and you get four or five planes per package
Because all the STAR's feeder routes deliver you to the Cheung Chau VOR I'm thinking that it must be the IAF. If this were a Jeppesen chart it would likely indicate that, but this is a weird chart (for guys who are used to Jepp)... I'm guessing that this chart is issued by the Hong Kong Government. These videos are great. Today I just installed FS2004 and am going back to FS2004 because I get 32 fps instead of 14 with FSX. I now understand why some on here call FSX a "non-upgrade"!
By the way, FlyTampa has the actual IGS13 approach, but it's called ILS 13. It includes LLZ/DME 111.9 KL, 377 RW (NDB) and stock FSX Cheung Chau VOR (112.3 CH). I don't know if FSX has Sha Lo Wan NDB (286 SL) because I did not use it on my approach (I was flying above 180 kts by the time of the right turn towards Lantau Island).
It’s a procedure turn, CH is the IAF but alignment must be accomplished on the holding side of the procedure turn, you may not accomplish the approach without a proper entry and turn if starting at CH.
@awangj1 So it was it clear enough? Good, I'm glad you guys understand it because these approaches are harder to explain than most other approaches. When I'm doing these they make sense in my head but I have to remember that I'm showing this to people who may not have my experience, so sometimes I do tend to go overboard too, but as long as it helps you guys out, I'm happy :)
@FSX404 iLve watched them all. Cos if you're flying the 268 radial from Thathong VOR, you can't hve Cheung Chau tuned as well and showing. I'm guessing you just go to Thathong and tune cheung chau and fly its 270 and over fly and keep going...
@FF35Pilot No, not for a longtime, the default plane flight dynamics are really way off, and I like the addon plane flight dynamics and more complex instrumentation, and it makes it easier to pretend I'm flying a Boeing "for real" like the rest of us simmers, LOL
@FF35Pilot Now you are asking pilot questions, LOL, the VOR will flip and the needle will center for a second or two very similar to the ADF, watch my VOR navigation tutorial part 2 or 3 I explain it there in little more detail.
@BorisKnoT For some reason the scenery hasn't activated properly, it thinks that you don't have the correct license. A lot of these software companies go overboard with protections that they ruin the fun. I've had problems with my Just Flight planes I bought, they would work fine the first time, then I'd get a block saying the license was expired. I bugged them until they gave me a version that needed no license.
@FSX404 I downloaded their 777, but what I don't like is that you have to find the right variant ie 777-204ER, and then you want the model with the virual panel, and most of them dont have, and then it still takes my frames to about 5 or 6. But I have their 747, I hardly use it because there is no VC, but I think it has better (more real) wing flex than PMDG, but PMDG owns it on realism for flight systems...
Can I program the F/D of an A320 to fly a non-precision VOR DME approach like this? So that I'm essentially "pilot monotoring," and the F/D is the priority pilot?
@FF35Pilot "Project Open Sky" or "Project OpenSky" has nice planes that are addons but free, google them and see if there is a plane you like, some freeware planes are as good if not better than some payware planes.
@abdulrahimify cos the AIRACs are updated and Kai Tak is officially closed.. I tried installing a VHHX file to the SIDSTAR database for PMDG but it still say not in database when I load it.
@FSX404 I figured out the 777. I had the older, less revised panel installed. All sorted. could you cheat and use your GPS to get to the WPTs. although on the chart it does actually say that waypoit RAINY is so many degrees from CS VOR, etc... I see what you mean. Thanks. So I would tune the CNS VOR. I flying the RAINY IAF, I would put the rdl stated into CRS box, and when it is intercepted, I have gone past it. I think thats it?
I'm trying this out in the default 747, and every time I set altitude for 4500 to intercept GS, and I get the loc. Problem is (btw, i'm using autopilot cos its foggy) and what happens is, as the GS comes down on the PFD, the alt hold turns off, and then the plane pitches to 10 deg nose up, then the GS goes way down, then the plane goes 4deg nose down to catch the GS. Its really annoying, cos the AP is still adjusting after the OM. Does anyone know what the problem is??
+Nicholas Davis Yeap. Most definitely. It's where all the STARs lead you to and where all Instrument Approaches begin. That's pretty much the definition of an IAF. It also has a characteristic IAF Holding Pattern.
@StratMatt777 X is for 10 I think, I had discussions about the Kai Tak approach with a whole bunch of CFII's and no one wanted to touch this one. There are approaches that don't tell you what the IAF is, but all the STARs bring you to one point. Who knows, it is Hong Kong, and they were ruled by Brits, and Brits have a way of complicating everything, Brits are like women, if you don't try to understand them and just accept them as oddities, they make a lot more sense :P (the French too)
How come when i begin that famous turn towards the runway 13 i ether missed approach or if i think i could make it i end up touch down so late and stop at the end of the runway? I fly the PMDG MD-11 BTW!
@janujan995 I, unfortunately don't do tutorials on how to fly different planes (airliners), just approaches and reading charts. See which plane you're using and see if anyone has made a tutorial on it on how to use its autopilot.
That is all you have to say after watching the best tutorial ever created on this earth?! Its like eating the best prime rib in the world for free and complaining about parking. I am disappointed. LOL, I'm just pulling your leg man, thanks for the info.
@FSX404 yeh well, unfortunatly I can't pay for the nice ones, but the least I can do is try and make the default ones as complex as possible... Tbh there wouldn't be a point for me to get a half decent aircraft addon, cos my PC struggles with the default ones :/ hoping for a new pc (dual 3.2ghz, 4GB Ram, 1GB asus video card)
Thanks for the info, very valuable. Sorry I cant accept your video response here, I accept them everywhere except my tutorials and 10 Most Extreme Series.
@FSX404 Funny! "X is for ten", as in, " TEN FRAMES PER SECOND"?! :) LOL I had put a 512MB video card in my old computer and ran FS2004 amazingly, but my new computer which has the CPU to run FSX does not have the video card to run it. I've got 256MB on board video RAM with an overall system memory of 6GB. FS2004 is great- and if you have TONS of airliners the aircraft selection screen organizes them much better than FSX. I love Project Freeware Airplanes: freeskyprojectdotcom
Kai Tak RWY13 Approach is really fantastic. I have done six or seven approaches into it (in FSX) with a Cathay A330-300 and I have only gone around once. If you want to see one of mine approaches into the old Kai Tak, watch ruclips.net/video/f66uDlzvDZI/видео.html
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Sneaking [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ILUps2zDFU/mqdefault.jpg)
CH is the IAF for this approach.
If you're coming into CH from the east, in order to leave CH on radial 270 outbound what you do is a PROCEDURE TURN. You break off into the holding pattern on heading 120, start the clock, and after the minute turn left into CH. That will align you nicely with radial 270.
I was in Hong Kong in 1996. Yeah, the dramatic landing at Kai Tak Airport was a good introduction to the Hong Kong Beat.
When the plane was coming down to land, look out the window at the ground, and the shoddy and packed apartment blocks get closer and closer, and your eyes get bigger and bigger. And then suddenly, they disappear and one sees grass, and then the runway. Looking sideways out the window, would see the ocean nearby.
Oh well, Kai Tak Airport must remain in flight simulators (if not already). It's good training for pilots, a good challenge. And, as a souvenir of it.
@louisekaille
A non instrument rated lasts less than 3 minutes in IMC weather before braking the plane apart and crashing, so those instruments are worth more than any "instincts" a pilot has.
Instinct is something cool you hear about in movies. The most important thing when flying is experience.
Cool video my man! The first thing I'm going to do when I get a time machine is go back to the 1900s and fly this approach in a DC-10 🥹
@FF35Pilot
GPS points are not random points, they can all be reached by using VOR's or other nav equipment, it is a little complicated and you have to have had your IFR training. I have no idea about the POSKY 777, do a search for it here on youtube.
@FF35Pilot
You can switch from Thathong VOR to Cheung Chau VOR as soon as you are established on that 268 radial from the Thathong VOR or at the half way point. Either way by the time you get to Cheung Chau VOR you should have the Cheung Chau VOR dialed in.
@FSX404 btw, this video is linked on the 9Dragons site :)
You can work out a rate of descent by:
5 * Ground Speed (on a 3 degree glide slope)
Or: x/3 * 5 * Ground speed (on an x degree glide slope)
@FSX404 Yeh, well with approaches like that (the EGLL approach plate also has no IAFs, but it states that 'acft will usually be vectored from holding patterns or arrival points' so technically, the TH VOR is the unofficial IAF.
@FF35Pilot
9Dragons just adds on Kai Tak, it doesn't affect the current airport in Hong Kong, although I've seen addons for that airport too.
I am sure someone addressed this but Fly Tampa - Kai Tak provides this scenery. The company name is Fly Tampa
@FSX404 Yep. Nice job on the flying by the way.
@FSX404 If I understand, everyone will. :D It was perfectly clear in every way.
Question/assertion here. If you used the proper IAF, you cannot just hit the Cheung Chau VOR and turn to start the approach. If you’re not properly aligned with the 270 course, per ICAO, you need to fly the charted holding pattern using a direct, parallel, or teardrop entry procedure to align yourself with the 270 course. That also engages your issue of flying this approach at high true air speeds. Remember, 747s used to fly this. They most likely did it the proper way, either by using the arrival plate or getting a vector to the course. If I’m wrong here, please let me know, and let me know why - we’re all here to learn!
Its been a while since I created this and Im trying to remember why I didnt use Cheung Chau VOR and one of the entries which should work. I believe I wanted folks to concentrate on the approach rather than entry procedures which is one of the most complicated lessons. Thathong VOR presented an easy way to bypass that. I real life my guess is that all planes were vectored to Cheung Chou VOR.
Awesome briefing!
I got the Flytampa scenery for Kai Tak but I have a problem and I didn't find any forum topics or such on how to solve it. I get big red squares on both sides of runway and one on the middle of it. Wonder what I need to do to solve that. I tried reinstalling but it didn't help. I don't know where to ask so I posted here. The rest of the scenery works fine.
@FF35Pilot
I took a quick look at the ILS or LOC RWY 15 approach, I didn't find the ILS/DME approach, and from a quick glance at it it lloks like you need two VOR's and a DME to fly this approach.
@wisnu1231
Well, you can't chose your own altitudes, otherwise we wouldn't need approach plates. You have to follow it withing +/- 100 feet (200 feet in the simulator) if you want to do it right.
@FSX404 i see what you mean by unrealistic flight dynamics... I did an aileron roll in my 747just after takeoff at VHHH without crashing.
I think I'll probably get the wilco airbus series, not too expensive, well reviewed, and you get four or five planes per package
Because all the STAR's feeder routes deliver you to the Cheung Chau VOR I'm thinking that it must be the IAF. If this were a Jeppesen chart it would likely indicate that, but this is a weird chart (for guys who are used to Jepp)... I'm guessing that this chart is issued by the Hong Kong Government. These videos are great. Today I just installed FS2004 and am going back to FS2004 because I get 32 fps instead of 14 with FSX. I now understand why some on here call FSX a "non-upgrade"!
the reason they don't tell you to land in runway 13 is beacause of the winds. If you want to land in runway 31 make the winds change
By the way, FlyTampa has the actual IGS13 approach, but it's called ILS 13. It includes LLZ/DME 111.9 KL, 377 RW (NDB) and stock FSX Cheung Chau VOR (112.3 CH). I don't know if FSX has Sha Lo Wan NDB (286 SL) because I did not use it on my approach (I was flying above 180 kts by the time of the right turn towards Lantau Island).
It’s a procedure turn, CH is the IAF but alignment must be accomplished on the holding side of the procedure turn, you may not accomplish the approach without a proper entry and turn if starting at CH.
Kai Tak FTW! Great briefing.
You should of used a 747 of some sorts, because most people want to recreate the 747 heaven there was at Kai Tak! Great video thought!
Very good, can you do for the St Barths Approach
@FF35Pilot
Can you send me the link of that Kai Tak website that has my video posted, I'm just curious where they put it LOL
@awangj1
So it was it clear enough? Good, I'm glad you guys understand it because these approaches are harder to explain than most other approaches.
When I'm doing these they make sense in my head but I have to remember that I'm showing this to people who may not have my experience, so sometimes I do tend to go overboard too, but as long as it helps you guys out, I'm happy :)
Your welcome. I like your tutorials. I even copied the Paro Approach procedure to RWY15 to a piece of paper so I can try it. Let's see what happens.
@FSX404
Was the turn from 'golf' to the localizer feather a half-standard rate turn?
@FSX404 iLve watched them all.
Cos if you're flying the 268 radial from Thathong VOR, you can't hve Cheung Chau tuned as well and showing. I'm guessing you just go to Thathong and tune cheung chau and fly its 270 and over fly and keep going...
The IAF for Chep Lap Kok is thathong VOR, so I'm guessing it would be the same for Kai Tak
@FSX404 problem is, there is only the CS VOR, the rest are all GPS waypts
BTW, I got the POSKY 777 with VC. How do you put it onto NAV mode??
to get rate of descent use the formula.. Glide slope angle x Ground speed x 100/60
sorry for not posting a video response to courchevel.. didn't find the scenery for fsx.. but anyways this one i'll do
@FF35Pilot
No, not for a longtime, the default plane flight dynamics are really way off, and I like the addon plane flight dynamics and more complex instrumentation, and it makes it easier to pretend I'm flying a Boeing "for real" like the rest of us simmers, LOL
@FF35Pilot
ABSOLUTELY NOT. One approach has absolutely nothing to do with the other. According to the plate I used, Kai Tak has no IAF.
@FF35Pilot
Now you are asking pilot questions, LOL, the VOR will flip and the needle will center for a second or two very similar to the ADF, watch my VOR navigation tutorial part 2 or 3 I explain it there in little more detail.
@BorisKnoT
For some reason the scenery hasn't activated properly, it thinks that you don't have the correct license. A lot of these software companies go overboard with protections that they ruin the fun. I've had problems with my Just Flight planes I bought, they would work fine the first time, then I'd get a block saying the license was expired. I bugged them until they gave me a version that needed no license.
@FSX404 I downloaded their 777, but what I don't like is that you have to find the right variant ie 777-204ER, and then you want the model with the virual panel, and most of them dont have, and then it still takes my frames to about 5 or 6. But I have their 747, I hardly use it because there is no VC, but I think it has better (more real) wing flex than PMDG, but PMDG owns it on realism for flight systems...
Can I program the F/D of an A320 to fly a non-precision VOR DME approach like this? So that I'm essentially "pilot monotoring," and the F/D is the priority pilot?
I couldn't tell you without seeing it.
@FSX404
Could you describe to me how to do this with autopilot because I don't have a yoke and keyboard really doesn't work for me.
@FF35Pilot
"Project Open Sky" or "Project OpenSky" has nice planes that are addons but free, google them and see if there is a plane you like, some freeware planes are as good if not better than some payware planes.
@abdulrahimify cos the AIRACs are updated and Kai Tak is officially closed.. I tried installing a VHHX file to the SIDSTAR database for PMDG but it still say not in database when I load it.
@FSX404 that's what I meant
do you use any of the default jets??
@FSX404 I figured out the 777. I had the older, less revised panel installed. All sorted.
could you cheat and use your GPS to get to the WPTs. although on the chart it does actually say that waypoit RAINY is so many degrees from CS VOR, etc... I see what you mean. Thanks. So I would tune the CNS VOR. I flying the RAINY IAF, I would put the rdl stated into CRS box, and when it is intercepted, I have gone past it. I think thats it?
@FF35Pilot this usually only happens after a missed approach..
If you get 9Dragons,what actually happens to Chep lap Kok?
Awww man, i had Kai Tak as my window view when i lived in Hong Kong,,, sadly enough, it was too late. The airport was already 14 years gone :'(
could you take a look at the Cairns Intl RWY15 ILSDME approach?
I can't figure out how to fly the arcs without a VOR or anything
How do you know when you overfly the cheung chau VOR??
I'm trying this out in the default 747, and every time I set altitude for 4500 to intercept GS, and I get the loc. Problem is (btw, i'm using autopilot cos its foggy) and what happens is, as the GS comes down on the PFD, the alt hold turns off, and then the plane pitches to 10 deg nose up, then the GS goes way down, then the plane goes 4deg nose down to catch the GS. Its really annoying, cos the AP is still adjusting after the OM. Does anyone know what the problem is??
how come when i program pmdg md-11 to fly to vhhx it won't let me?
Very true, we do use these. But the cheat sheet is easier, last thing you want to do up there when flying in IMC is math.
The CH vor should be the IAF.
+Nicholas Davis Yeap. Most definitely. It's where all the STARs lead you to and where all Instrument Approaches begin. That's pretty much the definition of an IAF. It also has a characteristic IAF Holding Pattern.
Yes it is
@StratMatt777
X is for 10 I think,
I had discussions about the Kai Tak approach with a whole bunch of CFII's and no one wanted to touch this one. There are approaches that don't tell you what the IAF is, but all the STARs bring you to one point. Who knows, it is Hong Kong, and they were ruled by Brits, and Brits have a way of complicating everything, Brits are like women, if you don't try to understand them and just accept them as oddities, they make a lot more sense :P (the French too)
How come when i begin that famous turn towards the runway 13 i ether missed approach or if i think i could make it i end up touch down so late and stop at the end of the runway? I fly the PMDG MD-11 BTW!
@janujan995
I, unfortunately don't do tutorials on how to fly different planes (airliners), just approaches and reading charts. See which plane you're using and see if anyone has made a tutorial on it on how to use its autopilot.
@FSX404
How do you tune into an NDB?
That is all you have to say after watching the best tutorial ever created on this earth?!
Its like eating the best prime rib in the world for free and complaining about parking.
I am disappointed.
LOL, I'm just pulling your leg man, thanks for the info.
@FSX404 yeh well, unfortunatly I can't pay for the nice ones, but the least I can do is try and make the default ones as complex as possible... Tbh there wouldn't be a point for me to get a half decent aircraft addon, cos my PC struggles with the default ones :/
hoping for a new pc (dual 3.2ghz, 4GB Ram, 1GB asus video card)
@janujan995
Not exact, but approximate
Thanks for the info, very valuable.
Sorry I cant accept your video response here, I accept them everywhere except my tutorials and 10 Most Extreme Series.
at cheung chau VOR, i already at 4500 feet, and i didn't crash the mountain
I thought kai tak is abandoned
But still, instruments can't replace the instincts of pilots :)
@FSX404 Funny! "X is for ten", as in, " TEN FRAMES PER SECOND"?! :) LOL
I had put a 512MB video card in my old computer and ran FS2004 amazingly, but my new computer which has the CPU to run FSX does not have the video card to run it. I've got 256MB on board video RAM with an overall system memory of 6GB. FS2004 is great- and if you have TONS of airliners the aircraft selection screen organizes them much better than FSX. I love Project Freeware Airplanes: freeskyprojectdotcom
most people doing ifr approaches have the aircraft on autopilot
Kai Tak RWY13 Approach is really fantastic. I have done six or seven approaches into it (in FSX) with a Cathay A330-300 and I have only gone around once. If you want to see one of mine approaches into the old Kai Tak, watch ruclips.net/video/f66uDlzvDZI/видео.html