I have used plant medicine/psychedelics on several occasions, including MDMA to treat life long ‘untreatable’ depression. What I was shown and had to process was truly horrifying, so I understand how the experience can be destabilising. But I have to also point out, that 3 years on, I don’t know myself. Actually, for the first time in my life, I do know myself. I have come home and it feels like a miracle to me. Before I took any medicines, there was a 3 month lead in time of inner child work, meditation, intention setting work with a guide on a weekly basis and on a daily basis by myself. The ceremonies were not in an insane group setting where you absorb the energy of others going through their own stuff, but in a peaceful, quiet almost reverent setting with just me and the guide. Afterwards, it has been 3 messy years of intense weekly work with a somatic practitioner who is beautifully skilled and well versed in other modalities for working with trauma eg IFS. I also used neurofeedback, yoga, meditation, tai chi, nootropics, etc to augment my healing. The now-cliched “it was like 10 years of therapy in 1 night” is bullshit. The medicine is the catalyst and it loosens the soil. YOU are the medicine. I’m not surprised people are having rough experiences that are overwhelming and destabilising. I’m not sure how people who are under prepared hold their minds together. Psychedelics are fearsome in their potential. Treated correctly, it can be life changing. Also, not everyone should use psychedelics. And I would certainly be wary of using them in a circle of strangers, some of whom almost certainly have unprocessed trauma.
I loved “The medicine is the catalyst and loosens the soil”…. So very true. It takes much integration and commitment after ceremony but, in the end, is often very rewarding/liberating but you must be committed to continuing the work. It’s not a quick fix by any means.
I think taking a psychedelic in a circle of random strangers is a bad idea. My inner Cynic imagines that this circle or group model has more to do with the economics of running retreats than with what is actually the best way to engage with these medicines.
Totally,whilst I believe and have no doubt that these ceremonies and plants can be powerful medicines for some people at certain times,this I want a fix now society and wanting the drama and intensity is definitely a western thing.I think people are at one time desperate to expereince life fully whilst simultaneously being too scared just to simply open up to people around them or in ways that are bit by bit each day.
so true. quick fixes or super bombastic, romanticised transformative " i met god" experiences. For someone who got sold on the new age spirituality with past life regression, i can tell you its a big fraud.
I have participated in ayahuasca experience 3 times. Twice in Peruvian jungle and once in jungle in Ecuador. Always with genuine indiginous shaman. I have no psychological problems. Didnt do it for that kind of healing. Three wonderful profound spiritual experiences. The first time heard everything singing and now I know everything sings beautiful sounds all the time but not in state of mind to hear it. 2nd time floating in embryonic fluid of universal love. 3rd time healing of relationship with my deceased parents who came into my being. I am a long time meditator. I have done a lot of spiritual work. I dropped acid back in the 70s. Possibly more prepared than a lot of people and really understood it is a very sacred ceremony. I carry what I experienced with me and would do it again. Research. Go with someone you trust and make sure you are physically and spiritually and mentally prepared. Peace
My first ceremony with Ayuhasca was the best experience ever even thou it was profoundly painful as it revealed a lot of the memories and emotions I’ve buried. For 6 intense hours I was taken constantly from a traumatic event to another. Once the traumatic event was elaborated, re-written and integrated, I was taken to another one. I can understand how this experience can be very triggering for someone that is not prepared to face their deepest traumas and don’t have the emotional capacity to integrate and elaborate what is happening during the ceremony. For me, Ayuhasca helped me solve in 1 night with a single dose, traumas that neither 10 years of psychotherapy would’ve been able to help me with.
@@muhyadindahir3188 Go with an open mind and trust that you will have the mental and spiritual strength to cope with everything that will show up. It’s not a given that you will have visions. Many people in the group I was in had none or very little. Just trust the process. Be an active participant and be curious. If something shows up, asks to understand more about it. You are conscious the whole time and to get out of a vision all You have to do is open your eyes. I have done 5 ceremonies so far. The last one was last night. And I have always had profound beautiful experiences even thou there was always some buried emotions and truths I had to see and feel. I wish you make the right choice for you and be sure you will do it in a safe environment with people that are capable to conduct the ceremony properly. The integration process usually happens the day after with the facilitators/shamans. At least that’s how it worked whenever I’ve done it. Best of luck to you.
Absolutely 💯 the same experience with me!!! You communicate with your soul which is your higher self, your higher perspective and there is nothing bad about it. If you are not ready to reach higher levels at the moment, you will go through tough moments with the medicine.
@@muhyadindahir3188 not sure if that dmt you mention is the type that takes you in an intense concentrate trip for 15 minutes only. If that's the case i dont reccomend. Specially if u havent had ayahuasca experiences that would give ypu a frame from where to work with a shorter dmt trip. I had 7 ayahuasca ceremonies at the tine i did my first short dmt, and, boy, that was traumatic, not the 7 previous all night ceremonies. Ay gives you time to process. All night, and slowly integrating day after. Of course it can be too much. But if one's gonna compare one medicine and the other, they are way different because of time and duration.
This can happen to you even without ayahuasca, it’s an awakening and can happen from loss, stress, breakups anything can trigger it and your entire life can fall apart because this is process of healing from the person you thought you were into your true self.
This is soooo true. I had that with certain men coming into my life, one was a narcissist. Then a healer who screwed me over, then multiple mental breakdowns and last year I had an Ayahuasca type experience by meeting another masculine soulmate on marriage app, met him once and went through what was another breaking down of my ego. When I finally did plant medicine a few weeks ago to clear more depression, the impact was exactly the same as when I met the man! 😮 Except much gentler and I haven't been acting like a crazy obsessed person 😅 but been able to cook and attend appointments and be whole. I like to believe it's divine energy flowing through me and all my lost soul fragments coming back because before I've been so depressed and demotivated
I’m so glad! I wish I had heard this information before doing it as this same thing happened to me! It’s been an awful several years since I’ve done it…but because of the cult like following this medicine has…this kind of information was not available at the time 😢
@@Pikachu-qr4yb that is why we have to stay away from hardcore experiences such as ayahuasca or mushrooms, so we remain safe and sane enough to not go into any mental institution. Mental institutions are full of people that develop psychosis after those extreme experiences. We should take care of each other.
@@Pikachu-qr4yb it's not a war between evil big pharma and the innocent plant medicine. One hopefully would be lucky enough to avoid both. I'm not sure why people feel a need to excuse one or the other. It seems like an eternal need to divide, take side and more or less unknowingly work on an agency's behalf.
What you experienced is called a spiritual emergency. I had this 8 years ago when my natural DMT releases from my 3rd eye and I thought I was loosing my mind and having night terrors and flash backs etc. yes I had severe trauma background. Please note that this happened naturally so without plant meds. The soul can decide it’s time to spiritually wake up. It took me 2 years to integrate but it was so worth it
I am another person who developed serious nervous system issues post Ayahuasca. It took me over two years to recover. I could not sleep for more than 4 hours for almost a whole year. This man almost had an identical navigation that I took. I spent close to $10,000 trying to figure out how to heal, going all over the place seeking out people to help me. My doctor said I should write a book also. So I'm about 4 years out now. I was able to go back to work fortunately. But I still suffer from sensory overload and memory loss. I'm considering getting a $3,000 assessment with neuropsychology because this issue. I don't advise anyone to take Ayahuasca if you are a highly sensitive individual, possibly have ADHD or on the neurodivergent spectrum. The rewiring of the system significant chaos. I'm thankful to be able to work again because at one point I thought I was going to be homeless. I'm a medical professional as well. It's been a really tumultuous past 4 years years. I'm glad to hear that this man healed.
Hello, Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for sharing. You might find this podcast featuring Irene quite interesting irenelyon.com/guest-appearances/30-ayahuasca-nervous-system-health-wellness-irene-lyon-collective-evolution-with-joe-martino/ Wishing you a smooth onward healing journey.
Hi there, I am severely crippled 8 years after having several bad ayahuasca trips. I can only work about 5 hours a week. I am bed-ridden about 80 percent of the time. Could you please tell me what helped you recover?
Can I ask what was different about your experience from the insomnia so many people experience? Not getting enough sleep is quite common and has a lot of causes, what makes you think its connected with ayahuasca?
Very similar path brother. Thank you both for having the bravery to speak on such a topic and provide harm reduction wisdom to those concidering this means of healing. Blessings continue to follow you where ever you go!
I can deeply relate to Juan Pablo’s story, and I’m so grateful he shared. Every part of his story, from his childhood existentialism, to losing his senses and feeling as though he was dying, to his journey to healing resonates. That’s also how I found Irene. These stories aren’t talked about often, but they aren’t uncommon. Your bravery will help others ❤️
Thank you for sharing. This was an amazing video. Plant medicine is big business now, and there are more unhealed healers holding ceremony, making tons of money and leaving people unresolved, thinking they had a healing, creating more trauma. It's like a rite of passage to go through all that physical/psychic/emotional/mental intensity...peak experience....Plus there are so many healing centers that seem like cults....you really have to be SO discerning with where you are going to heal.
I think going to India, Bali or some exotic place to heal is an expansion of the idea that we are not enough and the answer is somewhere outside. We dont need to travel, we need to come home to ourselves.
And I also think if something is getting you 'high' rather than bringing you into a more connected relationship with your body, that's also the same thing.
Great video!! Substances like psychedelics when administered temporarily and in the minimum and safe dose can save life (prevent suicide), yet..long term all of them are NOT the answer (solution to the problem). self honesty, emotional and spiritual healing (done correctly) produce safe and lasting results..health happiness, inner peace
I’ve been researching on psychedelics and it’s benefits to individuals dealing with Anxiety, Depression, ADHD and from my findings, they really work and I’ve been eager to get some for a while but its been difficult to get my hands on them.
The Trips I've been having really helped me a lot. I’m now able to meditate and I finally feel in control of my emotions and my future and things that used to be mundane to me now seem incredible and full of nuance on top of that I'm way less driven by my ego and I have alot more empathy as well
@ohmakure4716 I feel the same way too. I put too much on my plate and it definitely affects my stress and anxiety levels. I am also glad to be a part of this community.
Being literally surrounded by psychedelics and mental health specialists, I am coming to the conclusion that a great portion of the people doing psychedelic treatment are looking for a shortcut to spiritual groundedness or healing.
Only if you take the shortcuts and dont follow the necessary protocol. Also when one combines several different medicines, which is not following protocol.
You are right. I'm just an exception. I used to have horrific bad trips without ever taking any psychedelics. I'm afraid If I do so, I will go out of my mind completely. There's too much junk in my subconscious mind. Spiritual path is never easy. If that's thr case.
I havent taken psychodelics. But it seems to be a journey of intention. A friend did it in Peru with a Shaman and a team of nurses. It required a 3 day fast, constant meditation and intention before taking ayahuasca. So, it is not like smoking weed or popping pills. That's the wrong approach.
Thank you for this raw real truthful open interview. Irene, Juan Pablo gave such a genuine account. And I love how aware he was before and now even more of himself. I was thrilled to hear that Byron Katie's work is still alive. That he knew he wasn't ready to confront the dark and how smart his advice or just relaying his experience that if it's not time to deal with that darkness you probably shouldn't. This was such a refreshing interview. ♡
I was stuck in the endless loop of suffering too. There are no words to express how terrifying it is. I thought ‘the jokes on me. I drank the koolaid… I will be here suffering forever.’ I still have flashbacks of that moment and have intense fear about the nature of reality. I do think there is a deeper message to learn from that experience. To me… I just took away from it much of what the Buddha taught… life is suffering… we have to surrender. Thank you for sharing your story. I’m grateful you came out the other side 🙏💖
I had a really horrible Ayahuasca experience as well that left me really messed up, and the organizers say it's "just the healing taking place." I was in a constant triggered mode where I couldn't sleep, and I was so ungrounded I started to lose touch with reality and go psychotic and lose my mind. This was over 3 years ago and I'm doing so much better now, in fact the best I ever have before. I can't say I regret doing it because it really got me talking about my painful past and my beliefs but I compare my experience through this like botched surgery that I ended up recovering from. I feel bad for the people who don't have a support network or cooler heads in their life to help them with what happens after an experience like this because it was the hardest thing I've ever been through and I'm grateful I'm here today thriving. Use extreme caution before going to one of these retreats, please. Do not get swept away by their magical healing talk and how it's all "meant to be" and all sorts of asinine new age junk that's thrown in and easily confuses a person who isn't thinking straight from all the painful beliefs and memories they have and physical/emotional state they are in. There is a tremendous amount of risk when it comes to this stuff and they throw all caution into the wind cause "they can just feel and sense who is ready to drink the medicine." It's much safer to do a lot of research and do this in a modern therapeutic environment with people who have training and oversight, there is definitely need for some oversight and a more comprehensive and developed screening process and support system after taking stuff like this. Not some retreat in the middle of the jungle where they just send you on your way after.
@@marciestoddard730 Correct, many are engaging with the most powerful experiences that are possible without being ready or called. I really believe this is the reality, and if you are called and have this expiereince its exactly what your soul needed. These medicines are not little retreats they have the ability to do anything that is needed including break you to your knees.
@@Btouhy1 very true. The intention was fear and ego based not based on soul calling. And disrespecting the preparation diet. This medicine is s very powerful healing tool and not to be taken lightly, but with full respect and responsibility. Ayahuasca is for everyone, but not everyone is for Ayahuasca.
Thank you for sharing your experience, I was considering doing Ayahuasca on a retreat in Hawaii… but now I will reconsider it… they offer a 4 hour journey… this made me suspicious… I’m quite sensitive to pharma meds, so plant based meds are my go to… but we must be careful, even with nature and quick fix remedies… I’m glad I found this video!
As Juan Pablo said "This is F#$@ing it". That's exactly how I feel. Starting this work is the best thing I could have done. Also after trying many other modalities. Thanks, and all the best to you sir. And thanks as always Irene xx
This is a really eye opening interview. Thank you for sharing your story and experience with ayahuasca. It just goes to show how important it is to not rush healing or take on cultural practices that we have not studied well enough to grasp. You're so right, healing is not linear and we are all on our own journey❤️ I will definitely cross ayahuasca off my bucket list and go for somatic breathwork instead!
The same thing happened to me. Overly intense experience went for 12 hours straight. Negligent and untrained people in charge. Matter of fact, The shaman left midway through. Left me scared for 2 years and to pick up the pieces. People don't understand this is not a toy or a weekend fix. Auyahuasca is like opening up pandoras box what you see, find out and realize are yours for life but what you sacrifice far out weighs its beauty.
I'm glad you found your way out of it. Must've been very challenging. I also had a really terrifying experience. The "shaman" had the fix for me when I said that I felt off and needed help. He gave me more. Luckily I managed to pull through and ended up with a really solid experience that taught me a lot about myself. That said, I'd never recommend it to anyone. It is after all the most potent psychoactive drug on the planet. I also know one person who has been on psychotic meds since he went to the jungle, and another who is completely lost. They'll never be the same.
@@JamieR Bro that bothers me so deeply. I hope they are alright! I met a teacher who is legit and he gave me tools & techniques for which I came out of about 80-90% of my Auyahscua Issues and also the issues that I was looking to find in the first place. It all came full circle in its own time. In my opinion, no one is too far gone. Respectfully, I have to disagree with you there, they can come out of it. It would just take a lot of work. Take care Jamie.
Wow, when you, Irene, mentioned how strong his soul was…. Tears. I resonate so much with Juan’s experience, and in the 4 months since the ceremonies I have been beating myself up because I didn’t take 3 cups or for being weak. I really really needed to hear your words and to witness Juan’s beautifully emotional response to your reflection.
think there is this unspoken view on plant medicine in the spiritual community and how if it isn’t right for someone, it means their system isn’t strong enough to handle it. And that’s so harmful. It has nothing to do with weakness. I think highly sensitive people that could possibly be neurodivergent people, people with complex ptsd, and severe mental illness, it just isn’t a good match and it’s true that a lot of these shamans are not equipped to deal with or manage the space that needs to be held for those psychological needs. Simply because it’s kinda foreign to a lot of them.
I wish I could share this conversation with everyone I know and their friends! I am a Somatic Experiencing practitioner and in the past year I am getting more and more requests from people who have had bad ayahuasca experiences. It has become so popular as people are seeking new avenues to explore their truths, which in itself is beautiful. But with more and more inexperienced spaceholders with hardly any awareness of the risks and dangers, this is a recipe for disaster for many. Thanks Irene and Juan Pablo for sketching this picture in so much detail, as well as the hopeful message for anyone who has gone through a similar experience!
Hi there, I have been terribly damaged by ayahuasca to the extent that I am barely able to function at a very basic level and am unable to work. So I have lost everything and am homeless now. I have been desperately trying to find a somatic experiencing practitioner but they do not accept Medicaid. Do you by chance know if anyone does accept it?
Hey, you can learn it yourself; that’s what I’m doing. I’ve never done ayuhasca, but I had an unintentional kundalini awakening 5 yrs ago… Let me know if you’d like to connect. Are you doing any better now? Интересный ник, кстати - Сопротивление…
I did Ayahuasca 15 years into my personal development and spiritual journey And I had a very good experience! I think the preparation is very important and also many other factors such as the space, the shaman and the community
Now I know the reasons why I have never intuitively been attracted to undertaking plant medicine ceremonies. Thank you for sharing this very detailed video.❤
Thank you for this brave post, sharing a difficult experience. Just a reminder to everyone that we've never heard of anyone having lasting damage from music healing practices.
Thank you. For sharing this. It probably took him immense courage to be able to talk about it and having to remember and re-live everything in thought… I feel very grateful for your sharing, that’s precious to hear. I have always had a feeling… That’s exactly why I never did plant medicine, even not smoking the slightest thing… I have been through strong panic attacks for years, without having taken anything. Life was already scary enough. And I survived it. I finally built a stronger nervous system, after years and years of nervous system break down… I can’t imagine what this man has gone through while taking the plant and after… it’s not for everybody, and often people don’t talk about the dark side of plant medicine. Some people even go there without knowing what they are doing, and the risk they are taking.
My acupuncturist started “encouraging” me (it felt like pressuring) to lean deeper into some very traumatic family stuff and write a letter to my mother - at a time when I was teaching myself some “brain rewiring” practices that essentially involved doing quite the opposite, bringing myself back to the present and letting go of rumination on the past. She said that I was ignoring trauma and needed to face it in order to work through it, otherwise it would always stay stuck in my body. I instinctively knew this was deeply harmful for me, but I didn’t stop seeing her for several months because I was so emotionally vulnerable. I didn’t have the self confidence to do what was right for me. I can see now that this had a negative impact on my healing for a while. Listen to your instincts.
That's a major issue with talk therapy too. Trauma needs to be dealt with differently esp for those of us with rumination issues. Same with journaling.
UTTERLY outside her scope of practice. Reportable to her professional body, additionally she would certainly be in breach of the terms of her insurance. I’m sorry this happened to you and I hope you find yourself in a better place soon ❤️
I found this discussion so resonant. I had a similar experience 30 Years ago when something was put in my drink. I got stuck in what felt like a never ending loop where I lost sight of what was real and what wasn’t. When this experience was over (I ended up in hospital after about 8 hours of looping and running away from my own self -thank god I had a friend there) I was a different person. I became full of fear and everything felt Like a threat. It affected me for 20 years until I discovered hypnotherapy and yoga. I also realised I had all the symptoms of PTSD. Once I realised what had happened to me and began releasing the control it had over me by practicing yoga, polyvagal theory exercises I am now able to self regulate my nervous system. Like you, I now devote my life to helping others heal from trauma through somatic exercises and yoga. Thank you for sharing as I have tried to piece together what happened To me that night. It was terrifying
your point about cultural illness being unnatural got me thinking about a grove trees I used to walk through on the river. initially when I would go through there I would suddenly get a sense of panic, the urge to escape immediately. even in broad daylight. after a few months of this I finally stopped to ask the trees what's going on. they responded by saying "you're ok, we are just trying to keep the assholes out. fear is a universal repellant." they eased up on me from then on. I reckon my acknowledgement of their presence allowed for some kind of pardon. I can't even imagine using a powerful plant medicine without being attuned to earth mama first. sounds like a roll of the dice.
This is such an important message, thank you both for sharing! I know someone who took her life after a "ceremony". It is critical to address what needs deep healing before diving into plant medicines, and there are many unscrupulous practitioners offering ceremony without any knowledge of safety or providing a safe container...say nothing of preparation and follow-up processing. with participants.
Amazingly, I had come across this channel a mere month before my ayahuasca ceremony. I believe I stumbled right down the path that was the most helpful to me by taking Irene's course on SE just before taking the plant medicine. I had not taken the bait of "spiritual bypassing" and knew I had things within me that needed letting go, so I went into ceremony believing thoroughly that I was going to purge the trapped trauma by allowing my body to do whatever it needed without my Default Mode Network getting in the way, and that is exactly what happened. Had I not known what my body was experiencing throughout the ceremony (convulsions, panic attacks, random uncontrolled movements, fits of rage, terror at feeling that I was a consciousness stripped of my body, etc), I would have been far less prepared to handle it the way that I did, which was to lean into it. I was still absolutely miserable during and exhausted afterwards. Even the days that followed I still experienced panic attacks, but was able to soothe myself with reason and theory from Irene's course and have come back better than before. I'm not truly convinced that I could have gotten over myself on my own, but would agree that ayahuasca is a very cathartic and traumatic way to go and think that I can do the work myself now with the jumpstart that was that ceremony. I definitely believe that a course in SE would be very helpful to MANY people before taking ayahuasca, if they still felt it was something they needed, and I am looking into deepening my education on this topic to one day help others in this combination of modalities. Thank you, Juan and Irene, for this wonderful intersectional talk.
This episode stirred so much strong emotion and feeling in me when I first watched it and it was a wonderful gift that it did because I was given an opportunity to discover what was in my nervous system, that this interview had triggered.. The same could be said for JUan Paolo and his experience with ayahuasca, that rather than destroy his nervous system, ayahuasca triggered and brought to conscious awareness what was already there. I have heard Irene talk about this in a previous video pointing out that "it will open the floodgates to the unconscious" and should be approached with caution. Ironically, I was on a 7 day ayahuasca retreat when the interview was being recorded and experienced many of the same things as Juan Paola, the difference is that I went in without an agenda ie hoping it would save a relationship, I took a lot of time in choosing the team that would facilitate my retreat, had already done a lot of work in regulating my nervous system and followed the guidance of the shamans for both preparation and integration of the retreat. Ayahuasca is not and should not be seen as a magic treatment to cure all in one dose, which it sounds like what Juan Paolo expected it to be. Yes, there are many calling themselves shamans that are nothing of the kind, which is why research and careful consideration of intention as well as expectation is so important. Ayahuasca is a very powerful medicine, to be treated with respect and approached in the correct manner. THat the interview was presented in the way it was I found both shocking and disappointing because I have heard Irene speak of the risks before, so she is not unaware. If approached and used in the correct maner, ayahuasca and indeed other psychedelics, can be a very powerful tool for healing and that more care was not taken with clarifying this in the interview I find very sad. Humanity needs all the help it can get with healing, whatever modality anyone chooses to make use of and interviews like this, serve only to cause more confusion, mis-information, distress, anxiety and division. A very biased, one sided interview, made all the more shocking that it was made and promoted by Irene, it would seem for commercial gain,.
Man, this interview triggers stuff in my system. I had a traumatic event like that with marihuana. Extreme fear and then dissociation, that left me with years of panic and chronic fear.Back then I didn’t know I was so disregulated that my system couldn’t take such stimulation. I was angry with myself that I listened to a friend who recommended me to smoke that joint so that I can relax a bit. My dad passed couple of months prior to this and I was in a bad shape already then this harmless friendly meeting turned into a nightmare. Thankfully now I know more and I am healing with Irene’s program day by day. It has to be slow and steady so that my system can feel safe in this world again.
I was from a very very traumatic family. At 16 I had one try on a joint and tried to take my own life that night. That’s how sensitive my system was and is x
I am on my way to regulation, through SBSM with Irene I’ve gained so much wisdom. My capacity has grown and I understand myself and my system better. This work isn’t about removing anything, it’s about learning the language of the body and how to be with it in "good and bad". You can watch an interview Irene did with me this August. I am forever greatful for her work, it really have saved my life.
Thank you so much for this interview, Irene and Juan Pablo 🙏 there are so many parallels between this story and my own. It currently feels like there is space expanding and a softening within my ribcage. Simply hearing that there is an ‘other side’ of experiences like this, that there are others who have come through and out of that terrifying experience helps me remain hopeful. It has been a year and seven months since I had a hallucinogenic experience in which it felt like my chronic freeze was lifting from my body, to name one of the less terrifying things that i experienced during those 15 hours. This time last year, I was considering suicide. Very few people seem to mention that the hallucinations don’t stop after the initial ‘trip’. I used to think that because I had acted on that ideation in the past rather ineffectively, the fear of failing again is what kept me from following through. Knowing what I known now, I realize I wasn’t giving enough credit to my body’s natural proclivity towards survival. Though, I really did feel that the after affects would never cease and could not imagine any other alternative at the time. I found SBSM through obsessive searching into what was happening and trying to find healing of any sort. I’m currently in my second round of the program, and it has been *the* key in my finding regulation again. I still feel survival stress surface from time to time, especially surrounding autonomic functions like swallowing. Now, when it arises, I am able to orient and sense my way to more relief and increased capacity as I continue practicing. I have recently been able to recognize the feeling of sensory overload before it creates a state of sympathetic activation in my body that feels like life or death. I have also begun to accept my aggression more (something I was very ashamed of as long as I can remember) now that I am aware of safe and ethical ways to express it through my body. And most of all, i have found myself slowly becoming curious again, as opposed to hyper vigilantly assessing and categorizing all stimulus and information. I have even started to find myself becoming curious about connecting with other humans again- a realization that came as a bit of a surprise to me. Connecting with my felt sense more has started to open up this integrated sense of be-ing in me that a lifetime of obsessive analyzation and spiritual bypassing could not. I am so grateful for the work you do, Irene (and Seth), and for how accessible you make this information. I truly believe that this knowledge needs to be more widespread- it bridges so many gaps present in current therapeutic approaches. For lack of words to describe how I’m feeling, I hope this emphatic thank you can convey it. Thank you!! 🙏
Arya Star, it's really inspiring to hear about the all changes you've created (and continue to create) as you apply what you've learned in SBSM! Thanks for taking the time to write about your experience. - Jen from Team Lyon
Thank you for sharing your experience. I definitely feel completely caught up in "obsessive analyzation and spiritual bypassing." Paralyzed by it. Terrified of connecting consistently to my felt sense. You purchased Irene's 12 week program then and that has supported you?
Irene Lyon and Juan Pablo, thank you so much for this interview! You're doing a great service to people. I never tried Ayahuasca and I won't. I already had my share of prescribed and unprescribed drugs and lucky me I had to go through short-time inconveniences from both before I understood that my body (and psyche) don't need any and generally speaking NO psycho-active ingredients. Some people are just like that. I cut off the little amount of alcohol I used to drink and gave up on coffee. Best decisions ever. I came to know more about Ayahuasca because I randomly listened to hinos and dances and I immediately clicked with the music. The most fascinating side for me is the DMT part as a chemical we naturally have in our brains (like so many others) that is being released in big doses before death and in NDE. There are a lot of documentaries about this plant, mostly of two types: 1) Churches of Santo Daime with lot of people singing and dancing, standing on their feet after drinking the cup (as if they're taking the blood of Christ, but where's the body). From an outer perspective they look simply happy, smiling, calm, gently shaking their bodies in an organised dance with no off-beat physical movements, open eyes, some have a deeply meditating expression with close eyes and nobody can say if they're fine or not but they still are standing up, older people quietly sitting in their chair, moms with small children who get their small dose of the drug... At the end of the night in the forest, every one is still so calm, clean, their white clothes still look pristine, the ones who get interviewed simply look a bit over the lines in a pleasant way, people quietly go back to their lives. More or less the same with videos of these churches in other countries, like Japan. 2) Tales from the "I wanted it to be dramatic and it was": people from western civilization looking for a strong experience or for healing where other things failed, paying big money to go to a well-kept resort with fancy self-proclaimed shamans, mats and buckets and toilet paper, everyone doing their own thing, screams, crying, puking and shitting, feeling devasted afterwards but going through more, shamans being quite unaware of what's going on, 4 days of devastation. Then some are ecstatic about the experience and others (more than you think) are scared or just nervously broke for long time. So either people are different with different psychic backgrounds, different intention from both shamans/facilitators and people or the drug is done differently or the environment is different or whatever OR there is a lot of untold and conveniently cut off from camera and people's experience. Who's cheating here?
fantastic, fantastic talk!! so much i resonated with here. thank you so much Irene and Juan Pablo for this! i feel SOOO much grounding after watching this in trusting my body.
Ayahuasca opens up your trauma. That is why it feels traumatic. That is what it does. It will be your responsibility how you work through that trauma. Sounds as if he was able to do that. This is a great conversation for him to share what helped him process that trauma. 1000% there needs to be more conversations and after retreat care for people to know how to process this trauma. I think there are a whole lot of people including myself that have had to deal with everything by ourselves that it doesn’t even cross our minds that other people might need help processing the trauma that comes up.
Such great grounding rare information. A big takeaway is that there is no guru who knows your body & mind better than you. The instinct to "obey" as you said, can be so damaging. We are each the authority on our own lives, the hard part is actually listening & following through on what is heard, instead of giving up our responsibility to someone else (which seems so much easier). Thank you for sharing your story Juan!🙏 I almost didn't watch this video because the title sounded click-baity, but it was like nourishment to my mind to hear someone else speak of things I've experienced also.
I just finished a therapy session talking about my ayahuasca experience gone wrong, and I swear, 2 minutes later I saw your newsletter in my mailbox with this video..... Mind blown!!! Can't wait to watch this
Was your phone nearby as you spoke in therapy by any chance? I used to think that such things were huge coincidences or even more but dicovered that our 'smsrt' phones listen to all we do and fill our phone feed with related stuff. Its happened many times to me. Shocking invasion of orivacy that Edward Snowden and others have warned about. Due to other feed items sent to me on my phone I believe the phone camera 'watches' also. So if you have anything you wish to keep private....
Thanks Irene, this is such an interesting topic. In hindsight we'd ideally build a strong foundation of mind-body awareness before experimenting with altered states, but it doesn't always happen that way - I can relate. Dimethyltryptamine (DMT, the psychotropic molecule in the Ayahuasca brew) is so strange and special... but much of society has yet to make a space for it in our worldview... as it can be such a bizarre and surprising experience in small doses, it's no wonder entire Ayahuasca sessions can be stressful/ traumatic. Thanks for sharing this talk. Blessings!
Thank you for this conversation, Irene and Juan Pablo! In 2016, my chronic illness was at its worst. I wasn't able to sleep, my nerves were buzzing and my heart would jerk me awake anytime I was about to fall asleep. I got stuck on the idea that an Ayahuasca ceremony would heal me; curing my mental and physical agony. Until this day, I still don't know how I did it, but I booked an Aya retreat in Costa Rica. I made the first leg of my journey to Florida. Then, I completely collapsed. I could not make it to Costa Rica. Today, I'm so clear that I would have died in ceremony. My liver would not have been able to process the medicine and my NS definitely wouldn't have been able to handle the experience. And... my adrenals were in no shape to handle physical purging. I'm so grateful I was lead to Function Nutrition, the work of Anthony William and your SE work, Irene! These tools have me feeling more grounded and connected than ever! Yet, at this time, I know I am still not ready for a "big" plant medicine experience- and that's ok! I am enjoying mystical experiences that are within my capacity.
Trauma healing work can be quite challenging and involves a balancing act of providing a safe space and resources and preparation in tandem with reprocessing traumatic memories. If you push someone into the reprocessing before they have adequate preparation and resources then it can leave them stuck even deeper in their trauma states. Psychedelics are particularly hazardous since they use chemical intoxication with foreign substances rather than meditative skills to disrupt the ordinary mental filters that keep things in the subconscious out of our awareness. It's harder to withdraw from the encounter if you are not ready for it. Psychedelics can be powerful facilitators of healing but care is definitely needed when using any powerful tool.
I didn’t try this but It almost sounds to me like people that are already sensitive souls and can get deep into themselves that these stuff can just takes things too far for a human to handle. I did some heavy deep breathwork and fainted , I kept blacking out throughout the day, got super weak and couldn’t get back to myself for weeks, I was told it would heal me and it’s only beneficial it can’t harm but I learned that there’s no shortcuts and natural and slow works best. So I will stick to my old methods that work like regular excerises for nervous system and natural breathing , nothing to crazy. Stuff that feels like my body can handle , meditation and prayer :)
Did you try that hyperventilating type of breathwork where they tell you to breath in and out really forcefully and fast? That didn't look right to me. It looks like mimicking a panic response, and I don't know how that can be beneficial? I'm sure you're right that the drastic methods can look attractive, because we think they might be faster. Slow and incremental, w/ moderation is usually best. We're already in distress in various degrees, bringing on more distress (in the name of helping) can't be right.
I have participated with plant medicine. I have had lots of trauma as a child and young adult . When I participated I followed all the guidelines to the T. I did not play with the medicine in any way. I had the upmost respect for the medicine. I would never approach something so powerful without that complete respect. Why would anyone do this medicine and not adhere to the guidelines and expect to have good results? Also the medicine called me while I was in a deep meditation literally. I believe you have to be called to do it. From this account I hear he was not called to do it. He did it because a friend paid for it. This medicine is powerful. All the components have to be in place with the upmost respect. I have never heard of anyone committing suicide after a journey. I knew death was a possibility. I was offered more medicine and I knew myself well enough to say no to the second dose. I came into it with complete respect. It has changed me for the better. This young man approached this medicine with some degree of disrespect by not adhering to the protocol prior to using the medicine. You cannot play with this medicine for kicks and thrills, for sure. Even the deaths related to it have been brought on by not adhering to to the pre experience guidlines.
How does one die from a pyschedelic like this? I thought it was just altering consciousness and making it easier for one to detach from resistance... Please help inform me. R.I.P and respect to those who have passed from this 🙏✨️
I wish people would stop taking spiritual practices and substances out of their specific cultural context and commercialising them, without proper grounding 🤦♀️ It’s disrespectful and as we’re seeing, dangerous. It’s not the FU to big pharma that so many want to believe.
I would say it's less about cultural context and more about spiritual context. If you are doing these things without understanding of the deep spiritual root of them and where they came from and how and why they were used spiritually by the people who first found them, that is disrespectful, not just to yourself but to the medicine and to the people who's spiritual lineage understands the substance better than you do. I have had incredible life changing experiences with plant medicines administered by shamans who weren't from the culture the medicine is from, but received the spiritual training of the culture. So the medicine was honored because of the spiritual lineage, not the cultural one.
@@queengoblin I want to agree with you quite a bit, but i do think that there is value in realising that the culturally-specific and site-specific is important, right down to it being a part of your actual, genetic lineage. Something that has been part of your ancestors ingestion is encoded on your DNA and is also entwined with other plants and practices. Nervous systems are in different states of repair (or disrepair) and that’s tied up in colonisation - both for colonised people and the colonisers. I’m an Anglo-Celt. I do not expect that the spirit medicine of Latin America is mine to take or would be of benefit in the same way to some whose lineage it is. I’ve met one too many suburban white boy ‘shamans’ 😂 who would need to find other employment if they weren’t making people throw up in living rooms 🐸
This reminds me of an EDMR therapist who suggested and pressured me in the session to do a bresthwork excercise that was prana. It literally traumatized me that it wiped out my stomach acid leading to me almost being hospitalized. I don’t even knew that could be possible but I’m never doing that again and I’m never even going back to EDMR. Gentle somatic work has been more than enough for me and body feels better because of it.
I had similar thing and did deep breathe work I was told it will heal me and I blacked out few times and felt super weak and took me weeks to stop feeling so weak and scared . These things can be so scary
I don't understand all the terms and abbreviations people are using. Where you both doing some type of intense breath work, that must have been pretty unnatural? Can you explain what was the method to avoid please? I've done gentle types of breath work that can be very grounding and helpful. Breath is life and we tend to shallow breath or hold our breath when really stressed, so regulating breath and getting oxygen into the tissues properly can only help. I've seen methods for a type of super fast breath work where you're told to hyperventilate. I instinctly thought that can't be good, at all.
I have done holotropic breathwork with a group of 10 people facilitated by a therapist who studied with Stan Grof. Really great. Did it twice with her. Traveled out of body. visited a friend 40 miles away. Called her on the phone later and told her what I saw, what she was doing, so verified i'd actually gone. Confirmation consciousness does not reside within this body. No fear of death.
@@alicehesselrode467 Please be careful. You got taught to astral project. it's very real, but people have had very bad experiences after awhile when they've detached from their body. It can leave you open to very negative entities and some people have found they were detaching when they didn't want to anymore and there was nothing positive about it.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 I appreciate your concern. I had holographic breath work session close to 20 years ago. I have learned remote viewing through Institute of Noetic Science, and through Russell Targ. . I have met the angelic beings who hang out with me. Non physical beings. And that was not my first out of body experience. "Awoke" in the midst of serious operation in my 20s and saw doctor and nurses in operating room. Now I am in my 70s so many years of psychic experiences . I will not buy into fear. Maybe if someone is fearful and doesn't know the benevolent non physical beings bad stuff could happen.
I've participated in 9 Ayahuasca ceremonies. Do not know if I was really prepared or just lucky, so far all of them have ranged from positive to life-changing positive. I quit drinking (used to be a heavy drinker) and do meditation breathwork 5 times a day. Since the beginning of this journey I have never been happier in my life. Many friends and family have joined me, mostly positive with a couple of exceptions. I am no expert, but my suggestion is to pick your Shaman wisely and try to listen to your inner voice before you decide to participate in one of these ceremonies.
Just a few minutes in and I can already relate to so much of what Juan is saying about spiritual experiences. My nervous system was left messed up after an energy healing (Kundalini Activation Process, KAP) session and i've spent the past 2 years piecing my life back together. Irene's work has helped me immensely!
I've read that even kundalini awakening without taking anything is dangerous because the fire of enlightenment burns and the pain is so intense that we tend to succumb in addictions (food, weed, alcohol,etc). I don't know how kundalini is awakened, but I hope it won't happen :))
@@florentina9118 It awakened for my through energy work and the 'event' itself was very pleasurable but afterwards is when things became complicated and painful. I believe the energy will awaken on it's own when it is ready, but my body wasn't prepared for what happened during that energy session.
I felt similarly when I went to a Vipassana retreat.... I felt scared and unsafe and had some hallucinations once I returned home. I felt more depressed than I had for years... I have no desire to return.
I have thought Vipassana would be about silence and disconnection to technology, and I do it on my own, at home or in nature. Then it is very calming for me… aren’t mass practices a bit polluted with strangers’ energy? Wish you all the best, sea and nature works the best for me.
@@itr6540 As I was thinking about all these spiritual practices done in groups: Not everyones aura can handle this energetic closeness for so much time (I heard of a Vipassana retreat in a large group that is 10 days, someone told me enthousiastically I should totally do it) Maybe being a Projector in human design or just a cptsd plus psych med withdrawal hypersensitive nervous system/hpa axis / nervus vagus, I am sure that if ayahuasca ever calls me I better not go to Costa Rica and have sessions with a collective of hundreds of people in one big venue, but have a one on one session with a very ethical shaman.
My takeaways from this video: -Psychedelic experiences are not inherently healing experiences. -Setting and context are a MASSIVE factor in the potential for psychedelics to heal or cause harm. -If you are a person searching for healing, you should not put your mental health in the hands of someone who does not understand trauma, or at least have some background in psychology. This person must also be trustworthy in that they will LISTEN if you express a lack of openness to ANY experience, not force you deeper into it. - consent is critical, especially in an altered mind-state. It’s good to bring awareness to the potentially negative outcomes of entheogens, however this experience strikes me as a cautionary tale of someone who did not take the necessary precautions. This is not to say they are to blame for their experience, however, as an anecdote to inform others I believe it’s unfair to use this story as a basis for condemnation of psychedelics or a reason for anyone to write-off psychedelics as a way to healing. They are a useful tool for many. It’s critical to also do the work, be on an intentional path of healing, and only use entheogenic substances as a way to open the mind to deeper healing. Plants can’t be assumed to do the work for you. I have had a profound shift in my consciousness, trust, quality of life, fulfillment and engagement with experiences since a single, mild dose of psilocybin. I’m continuing to do the work, and grateful that nature has provided substances than have the capacity to help us, when used respectfully, correctly and mindfully.
Psilocybin has changed the direction of my life on 2 different occasions very positively. Kambo as well. But each I did with full knowledge and intention of what I was doing. Kambo was led by trained shamans who took excellent care of me. The psilocybin I did with trusted friends. Each time I did these I prepared months or weeks in advance and did a lot of inner work leading up to them. I've had a horrible trip on acid before that would have left me traumatized if I hadn't known how to do shadow work and basically talk myself out of it and process psychosis while in the trip. It was terrifying. I had disrespected the drug and tried to take it as a party substance and it kicked my ass. It was scary. I feel lucky that I have the background in personal healing I do or else I think that trip would have been extremely traumatizing. I was fighting for my sanity with my own demons for 18 hours. It was awful. I learned about the very real dangers in taking powerful medicines without care from that trip. I'll never do it again. People who do these things for fun or as a party drug or without prep or good people around them are disrespecting their purpose and playing with fire, possibly demons as well. Not in the religious sense necessarily, but our own inner ones we aren't ready for.
Correct. Theres tow factors that play into these experince, one the ones you said, any very difficulat experinces and i wont call them bad trips any more as my work with medicines clearly shows you there is no such thing as bad, any difficult are usually from being in werid not optimal situations when working with medicines or not respecting the,. 2. even if you were in the best experince when you work with these medicines you are opening yourself to something much higher and differnt than out natural logic, having a very hard year or two after is now part of the process that divinity and your higheset self has for you as killing your broken self is its goal, and it will literally kill you if you are not willing to surrender. I am personally coming out a the hardest two years of my life while working with medinines but whats happening underneath is literally miraculous and impossible for any other system to do. There is healing that is idescribable. This guy found nervous system work after his was pushed to the edge. the medicine didnt do it, it revealed it. Without it he would not be learning to regulate a system that was unregulated and hiding before. If your not willing to die to yourself and everything you thought was important you should not work with medicines that are supernatural. when you do be willing to pushed to the edge of reality. Im speaking from experience and i woule never go back. my work lead me to Irene
Well said. I'm currently seeking out a possible psilocybin experience to help me with a chronic condition/pain. I feel it's what I need to fully access my subconscious beliefs about myself and my body.
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We can't stare at the Sun more than a few seconds without damaging our eyes. I think that's a good analogy about how our environment is not always hospitable. The sun sustains our lives, but we can't take it all in with abandon. We have learned that for example our skin can withstand direct sunlight much longer than our eyes. And people with darker skins can tolerate much more sun than people with fairer complexion. Things like that are common sense in our society. We know that everything that comes from the Earth or the Sun is not automatically good for us. Still, in certain circles it's quite common to take shortcuts and make incoherent assumptions that disregard common sense and can lead to unfortunate outcomes. Thank your for this very enlightening interview!
From what I understand too is that Ayuhasca has its roots in Indiginous cultures and I have found that when a lot of those things are taken out of context out of the original culture and become popularized people don’t have the context grounding and connection discern or utilize it as it was meant to be used. Which then often times has negative ramifications from the cultures who originated the practices as well because they get demonized, or their materials over harvested etc. the fact that a lot of us in this culture are not grounded with the earth with the land (because we have not reckoned with the historic trauma that has been settler colonization) to really be messing with some of these traditions that come from and of the earth. Sometimes it’s a f around and find out kind of thing. But I do wanna mention that, there is the cultural context to it as well. And the fact that, Indiginous knowledge, ways of being and healing, in which some of these plant medicines have the potential to be safe in a lot of cases have either been lost or are struggling to persevere. And when we consider that oppression in and of itself is a systematic trauma, there’s a lot to consider how we talk about and understand it.
I can't find a source anywhere for any good psychedelics in my area, I suffer some pretty bad depression and i got a chance to try K and man it was a miracle substance, I felt free,the only high or euphoria was from the relief of my vices being released, that's exactly what it did
Mushroom completely turned my life around and my anxiety and panic attack disappeared and my personality changed into a much more generous loving person
I sat for 3 nights back at the end of September / early October. Most of my 33 years I have been in addiction and dissociation. Hiding from life. Scared of life. The first night with ayahuasca was the most harrowing and excruciating experience I could have imagined. The third night I saw a vision of my inner child shriveled up and traumatized in the corner, terrified of life, telling me "I dont know how to exist in this world." This was in Hawaii. I ended up moving back to live with my parents in Chicago, as I felt so ungrounded and unsafe. The last three months I've mostly been navigating suicidal ideation and despair and depression. Feeling incapable and like my nervous system is completely broken. Like I can't stay in my body for more than a few minutes at a time. All of this feels like it was already present and ayahuasca showed me the truth. I haven't been able to work or do much of anything other than go for walks and talk on the phone with friends, as well as seeing a therapist. I'm scared and lonely and holding on to hope that over time and with gentleness and devotion I can heal my system. Thank you for sharing this information.
Hi Kai. Seth here with Team Lyon. I'm sorry things have been so tough lately! It does sound like that Ayahuasca ceremony may have unpacked more than your system was ready for, which is unfortunately very common. Have you explored this work at all? Irene doesn't just make informational videos, she's also created multiple online offerings for actually doing the work and getting better at the nervous system level. Could be worth checking out! This page is a good place to start... irenelyon.com/new-here/ Also, this practice may be especially useful for you right now, and will give you a free sample of how Irene teaches people how to do the work... irenelyon.com/4-steps-to-calm-overwhelm/
I send you so much love and empathy . I do know you will heal. I'm not sure if this is helpful because I've never been in your shoes , but what I do know that struggling from trauma and abuse . Cold water therapy has changed my life . I hope that is something you will consider
@@soprotivleniye7620 Hey, thank you for asking. I am. I am learning I CAN handle intense emotions. I am learning that my life is my life and no one else is responsible. The deeply woundede inner child was running from responsbility, and the more I learn to dance and let him play, the more I realize I am not trapped here with no money and no hope.
@@Eileenfarrell222 Thank you, Eileen. It has been harrowing, but I do believe this. It's a deep dark pit but I have faith!!! facing my deepest darkest areas has been terrifying but i know with focus and courage i will get through this. cold water therapy seems important for me to build capacity to stay present with intense sensations. what I've been doing now is a little dance, breathwork and qigong. how do you utilize cold water therapy? would love to hear about your journey with it.
It is important to approach plant medicines and other traditional healing practices with caution and respect. While many people have had positive experiences with these substances, they can also be powerful and potentially dangerous if not used correctly. It is important to thoroughly research any plant medicine or traditional healing practice before trying it, and to seek guidance from knowledgeable and experienced practitioners. It is also important to be aware of the potential risks and to take appropriate precautions to ensure safety. Additionally, it is important to listen to the experiences of others and to be aware of the potential negative effects that these substances can have.
I had experienced the deepest fear and the snakes crawling under my skin also. I did follow all the protocols preparing for the sessions. It has effected me since and had hypnotherapy to deal with fear of closed spaces like flying, elevators etc. This happened on the 3rd ceremony out of 4. The 4th I was scared to take and made myself sick after drinking it. I am still working with a therapist and fear. I think my fear/terror came from childhood abandonment trauma being put into a childrens home. Been doing intense inner child reparenting and shadow work around being worthy. I practice daily yoga, don't drink and don't take any substances. This fear has effected a romantic connection. My therapist suggested I might have BPD but apart from the fear of abandonment I do not have any symtoms. Mind my romantic partner twice betrayed me before and after me doing the ceremonies to make sense of the connection. After it I started seeing material on NPD and he fits the bill. Three years on I'm still not out of the woods. I no longer question why I've had to go through this but celebrate how far I have come. No longer afraid of elevators and flew twice. Have no more night terrors and feel much safer in my body and living alone. I also do cold water therapy almost daily in the sea which helps me feel safe in my body.
Oh wow I had such a similar experience! After the ceremony now for 3 years and I’ve had intense fears as well…enclosed spaces (the shower even) I couldn’t even exercise because once my heart rate got up it would actually send me into a panic attack 🙄 I wish I could meet ppl like you irl…I was adopted and have deep abandonment issues as well…and I won’t say my life was great before aya but it has been AWFUL since! I’ve lost my husband and friends and some family! And my home..job…all spiraling from not understanding what was going on with me! Because this cult like following of the aya community always will blame you for the experience! Or claim you “didn’t integrate” or “aya gives you what you need not want” “it’s a tough teacher” “you weren’t ready” etc etc I’ve heard all the spiritual bs! That is essentially just well disguised gaslighting…anyway I’m so glad to have found this video!
@@marisacognetta4985 💗 - you “didn’t integrate” --> others did, so it must be you - “aya gives you what you need not want” ---> why? and if it is so, why you did tell me the opposite before or you left all unsaid? - “it’s a tough teacher” ---> eww, not her fault, she's a Mother. Thank you, I already had one. - “you weren’t ready” --- and you didn't even know! Your fault again. Yes, total gaslighting and total spiritual big BS. Notice how these statements are briefly spit out of mouth and no more explication given in the same exact form in many different contexts, regardless of a the drug/practice used. The more dangerous the more BS they need.
I had a very traumatic childhood and used meditation as the gentlest, slowest form of therapy. With deep meditation, which not only deeply healed me but also revealed a ton of information about who I am and everything else in life. Liberation is the state of being after you truly understand who you are and realize that you are not your physical body.
Such an important message! I had done so much emotional healing work, trauma therapy with a somatic therapist, many experiences of deep dives. And so I truly thought my experience with mushrooms would be one of expansion, enlightenment and joy…as that’s how it was spun for me. I was hesitant for Ayahuasca because I’d heard about psychic breaks, and often had very difficult experiences with marijuana. So I wish I’d paid attention to this red flag message my body was giving me. My mushroom journey was deep, dark and filled with every bit of grief, betrayal, fear, abuse and trauma that my scared inner child had spent a lifetime avoiding. It was terrifying and while others felt expansive, joyful and spiritual… my experience felt like the depths of darkness and death. It’s been a year and a half, and now I know so much better. Even a float tank, in utter soundlessness and darkness catapulted me into full on anxiety and panic. The entire time I had to speak to my scared inner child, reassure her… it’s no wonder she doesn’t trust me. I want to learn so much more about this, and plan to join your program soon!
My question exactly, how did you heal or how do you plan on facing the parts of yourself that you are avoiding at your personal pace? Therapy or solo work with(out) drugs/psychedelics or?
@@SA-px3ln it messed with me, but didn’t fully destroy me like they described in the episode. But it did reveal some hidden and trapped emotions, so I worked with my somatic therapist and also a technique called Emotion Code and Body Code to release and clear those trapped emotions in a gentler less traumatizing way.
@@Eleventyeleventh I had already been doing some deep shadow work, and working with a somatic therapist. I began incorporating deeper techniques such as Body Code and Emotion Code, Ho’oponopono, etc. in the end, the mushrooms were a blessing because they revealed some deep deep traumas I wasn’t aware of and was able to address them but at a slower, less traumatic pace.
Listen to Tim Ferris big episode about his experience that brought back memories of his abuse. Haven’t done it myself but your experience sounds like his.
30 plus ceremonies and many were really tough. The aftermath was tough. It hasn’t fixed things for me. But my life is much fuller. Helped me grow up and become more accountability
Thank you for this honest feedback and saving me from a horrible experience. I have a very sensitive nervous system. I know I will have your same symptoms to Ayahausca medicine, probably worse. It’s not for everyone. There are so many more ways to heal than taking mystery drugs that we know very little about.
My nervous system was very disturbed for at least one month after doing the journey, I was told that my chronic illness will be gone from this journey but actually it got much worse. But mushrooms were much better for me than ayahuasca --- my body rejected aya completely, and it felt that it was very very wrong for me..... there seemed to be something very dark in this medicine which I cannot put in words. But as a highly sensitive empath and a light worker I can say that it's not the best medicine for every person as people tend to believe. I also know someone who committed suicide after that and also someone who became schizophrenic after that. So people need to be careful. Thank you for this video. 🌷🌟🌷
What a beautifully valuable conversation on this topic. I think we need to be well informed about our physiology at all times. When we embark on the path of healing and self-development there are more dangers lurking than just plant medicines. For example, I am also thinking of spirtual narcissism. Or the many therapists who call themselves ´embodied´ and yet cannot guarantee a safe setting because they themselves are not yet sufficiently regulated. There are many pitfalls in the healing world. Too bad. That is why learning about the nervous system is so important. Learning the basics yourself at and knowing exactly what is needed. It was the best investment ever for me.
Yes, I agree! I worked with a self-styled "shaman" for several years who had no trauma awareness. There was no plant medicine involved. I did all of the practices faithfully and fully and was eventually, toward the end when I was on my way out, bullied for not doing things well enough or the right way and I was in the very innermost circle! I learned a lot about one specific kind of spiritual healing and practice (that has no impact on NS regulation), enough to stay and hope that if I worked hard enough and kept at it, I would heal what I had been wanting to heal for decades. Instead, as I look back, it was intense spiritual abuse. I left the group in pieces and have gradually put myself back together mostly thanks to nervous system work and other kind people along the way. Beware of ANYBODY who calls themself a Shaman (or a Master of any kind for that matter). Most likely, there's a deep well of unaddressed shadow along with half-baked techniques. The ones who are the true healers are humble and not making a fuss about how amazing they are.
I've been drinking Ayahuasca for 22 years with the Santo Daime church. For sure it's a strong medicine, originally, just for shamans or those going through spiritual trials to be healers. As you can see from other comments, Spiritual awakening can be triggered by meditation, yoga and spontaneously, not just with medicines, and that while it is true that most medicine facilitators don't know how to manage spiritual/kundalini awakening, neither do doctors or most therapists...this is a broad subject.
I mean all I am really getting from this is that people have no idea what they are getting into and that is very dangerous, plus it is absolutely not for everyone. Aya is not a quick fix the integration period that follows is hard because you have to deal with everything that is brough up. Plus now this is turning into a mass tourism thing and you have to be careful where you go and who you trust. No, the curanderos can't support you enough because they live in a comunity where this is a part of their life and they see and experience life completely differently that we in the "civilised" western world do, where we created a sick society and we are totally disconnected from everything and we need intense therapy before and after and at least some meditation practice before we even think about attending anything like this. A lot of people in the comments saying how hard it was for years but now they feel better. That is exactly what working on yourself feels like. It's painful and unpleasant. When you mix in something that makes the work 100x more intense and faster and you do it without support of an integration therapists, to me that is insanity. I can empathise, I understand how hard it is, I have gone thorough it myself and although I was prepared my life fell apart but I also was able to process trauma I truly don't think I could have otherwise. I am glad this video was posted, I hope people think twice about what they are doing and that it takes hard work and a lot of time and support to process and heal.
In ayahuasca the death trap is rejection. The entity in his experience that he related to as threat was to be his teaching but it was rejected in favor of salvation. The teaching, however, repeatedly pushed it self forward and was repeatedly rejected. Is there really any surprise here? The plant can tap into amazing intelligence if you are open to it.
You didn’t need anything outside yourself Juan! You were on the path already unfortunately the people you were interacting with at the moment made you doubt yourself. The image of you reaching the “good side” and it flipped to the “bad side” was telling you to not look outside of yourself and understand how the feminine and masculine energies complement each other to see the bigger picture. You are the center and the fountain of your whole being.
Great video, very important to be prepared before ceremony like how to utilize somatic self inquiry I’ve been sharing in my spaces how shamans and shamanism is not trauma informed so finding a shaman who is trauma informed is like a unicorn. When working with a shaman also make sure you have an integration team or are resourced outside of the shaman who isn’t trauma informed. Thank you for recovering and spreading this information on the importance of trauma and specifically shamanism NOT being trauma informed. In fact, shamanic initiations are traumatizing in of themselves and require immense specialization to undo the trauma associated with the gifts given through the initiation. Even elder shamans have their traumas passed down although very wise, they can still be a wounded healer and miss the opportunity of refinement/mastery to be a bonafide healer.
What a thoughtful comment! I read it carefully and I agree. Trauma is universal to human beings, but there could be different ways of processing (or not processing) them according to local cultural patterns. The Western mindset is a naif one. It's all about refusing the system and dive into anything foreign because "they know better". If they knew better they would be better off. Shamans traditionally accept to be traumatized as part of their education. I guess the way they accept it it's not what another person is looking for. Shamans can work as broken doctors or wounded healers. Now it's all about Ayahuasca to "open up". Once it was LSD. Prescribed drugs are not much different. The opening up is a hard-to-break myth in many healing fields, included psychoanalysis. For some reasons there is a belief that uncovering the lid of the vase will automatically cure your traumas because now you can see them. It's almost never the case without a solid integration and professional help. Functional freeze is called functional for a reason.
We have a saying/ wisdom in Hinduism which goes "Too much Amrit / Manna is also poison". Which tells you Greed never helps the body. I am seeing many people who get access to these drugs become , irresponsible and greedy and overdo it because they think "Too much of a good thing cant be bad right?".
I'm really glad this was shared thank you, I have been deeply considering this sacred plant but also have done a lot of research... This makes me 2nd think it I know I'd want to do it in a sacred session with people who are nurturing. I also have tried other psychedelics, I have had very very good experiences with mdma and microdosing with 🍄. Still on this journey to say the least good luck to all and trust your gut before doing anything out of your comfort zone that can be life-changing but also traumatic all the best 🙏🕉💓
Hi. Juan Pablo here. I actually remember you. You gave me some useful thoughts when i was going thru this experience. Thanks for having the guts to share your experience. It is not easy to show this side of things.
This experience, within the ceremony, sounds normal to me because from my experience Ayahuasca is not a gentle teacher. I was honestly expecting something else not what he described. Although I wasnt aware of after effects, hallucinations, etc. Ayahuasca can be very scary, very lonely. Also beautiful. And when you're in it you have to face and deal with the darkness if thats what comes, theres literally nothing you can do but surrender and thats whats scary, which in itself is a lesson is that we are not in control, control is merely an illusion.
Can you please talk about the highlights of your experience. Also the control part. How come control is an illusion and why should we surrender? Does the drug open you up to your own personal hell for you to learn, and heal through?
@@krystalizedmagic4894 with 3 ceremonies done, can't say exactly why control is an illusion, but from what I experienced, I tried to maintain control and it felt like hell. After being exhausted by the immense amount of suffering, I gave up the control. That was the moment everything started to calm down and was felling amazing, like all of my problems were gone. I wasn't desiring anything, yet having everything
Sounds terrifying, it sounds like my experience with pre verbal ptsd and going through emdr to heal it. I can’t even imagine going through this for two years!
@@kontesica EMDR- the same images (visual memories)and body sensations and emotions kept coming up in EMDR and I had flashbacks and strange implicit memories (body memories where I would wake up throughout the night when stressed in the position of the action I was trying to complete in the trauma ) as an adult but I had no memory of the ptsd events as an adult which is common for children with ptsd . I highly recommend EMDR, your body and your subconscious never forgets but it needs a tool like EMDR to tell it’s story and heal😊
Intense conversation - I started it the other day and realized I wasn’t ready to absorb it yet. Something about what is real and the feeling of not completely knowing what is real - but that could be the feeling of expansion.
Entheogens are intelligent teachers here to assist us to heal the root of our suffering on our planet. It is up to us to take radical responsibility for how we approach these teachers. Set and setting are crucial. I feel tremendous compassion for his suffering AND I also think that this path was his to walk so I see his hero's journey rather than is being a bad thing that happened 'to him'. If we 'consume' these plants or approach them to 'fix' us then we will get tough lessons. It is another aspect of us colonising our planet and that being internalised as dominance over our body and our healing instead of being in relationship with our body, our healing and our planet. If we approach them with reverence, understanding, self preparation and practice - they can assist us immeasurably and can change our world.
Thanks for confirming what I was feeling. I recently had a client come for a past life regression, after having an “accident“, to work through some stuff. After arriving, I discovered client’s accident was a serious seizure that resulted in four skull fractures. It was later revealed that The client has done at least 40 Ayahuasca doses, and only two were with a shaman.🤦♀️ I had a strong sense there’s neuroses and perhaps schizophrenia going on. After listening to this video I now have no doubt. Truly sad!😢
I hear what you are saying. But, it's like anything. The client had an unbelievable amount of nonchalance toward a super powerful medicine. Would you drink 40 cups of coffee in one hour? Would you eat 60 pounds of meat in a day? I would never dream of not doing it without a reputed Shaman. And, it's not something you do 40 times unless you are a Shaman.
My nervous system has always been a mess. I never felt any pull towards "plant medicine", nor for any kinda drugs. Good for me.... Im quite sure these meds would had been a very bad idea for me. I ve studied some energy healing, and many healers say these meds tend to mess up the energy systems as well.
@@soprotivleniye7620 I went to a retreat with Ayahuasca. It was three nights. After this I went into a period of intense fear. I was stuck in freeze mode for several weeks. There was no real support offered from the organization that arranged the retreat. No preparations were needed. I guess many repressed emotions came to the surface and it was just too much for the nervous system to handle. Ayahuasca is a powerful plant. I don't think it's wise to take it without proper preparations. It's not a quick fix that will heal you from all your pain.
@@debervin9121 No. Ayahuasca was my first plant medicine. They also offered Kambo, Bufo Alvarius and San Pedro at the same retreat. It was a cocktail of sorts.
I had a similar experience with mushrooms years ago. It put me in a state of PTSD and I'm still recovering. That was 17 yrs ago. It can be very dangerous.
When you had your traumatic experience, where you following the rules of set and setting? It's always informative to hear details about the situation, because often the environment or mental state the person were heavily involved in creating the experience.. When I've had difficult experiences, it was usually because I was being incautious, not in the right head space. I've also talked to people who had a bad time and are confused as to why. Usually it starts like this: "So, I had just had a bad breakup earlier in the day and my car was being repossessed. I smoked a big fat joint and then ate a big unweighed dose of mushrooms. I can't understand why I had a bad time. I'm not implying that's what you did, but it's so informative to know the preconditions of the trip.
@@MisterNiles What you seem to be implying is that only totally happy people without a single worry in the world can take psychedelics. But such people do not exist as far as I know. And if they did exist, they probably would not be interested in taking psychedelics.
@@soprotivleniye7620 Nope. That is not what I'm implying. But the rules of set and setting are important and people often ignore them. If you actually read my post you would have seen this: "It's always informative to hear details about the situation, because often the environment or mental state the person were heavily involved in creating the experience.." and this: " I'm not implying that's what you did, but it's so informative to know the preconditions of the trip." I've taken psychedelics when my life was very difficult, but even in that difficult state, there are times when you can judge you are in a better state than you have been recently and can do some healing work. I have no idea how you got such a silly, definitive idea from what I wrote. If you don't want to follow set and setting, that's up to you. Have fun.
I have used plant medicine/psychedelics on several occasions, including MDMA to treat life long ‘untreatable’ depression. What I was shown and had to process was truly horrifying, so I understand how the experience can be destabilising. But I have to also point out, that 3 years on, I don’t know myself. Actually, for the first time in my life, I do know myself. I have come home and it feels like a miracle to me. Before I took any medicines, there was a 3 month lead in time of inner child work, meditation, intention setting work with a guide on a weekly basis and on a daily basis by myself. The ceremonies were not in an insane group setting where you absorb the energy of others going through their own stuff, but in a peaceful, quiet almost reverent setting with just me and the guide. Afterwards, it has been 3 messy years of intense weekly work with a somatic practitioner who is beautifully skilled and well versed in other modalities for working with trauma eg IFS. I also used neurofeedback, yoga, meditation, tai chi, nootropics, etc to augment my healing. The now-cliched “it was like 10 years of therapy in 1 night” is bullshit. The medicine is the catalyst and it loosens the soil. YOU are the medicine. I’m not surprised people are having rough experiences that are overwhelming and destabilising. I’m not sure how people who are under prepared hold their minds together. Psychedelics are fearsome in their potential. Treated correctly, it can be life changing. Also, not everyone should use psychedelics. And I would certainly be wary of using them in a circle of strangers, some of whom almost certainly have unprocessed trauma.
I loved “The medicine is the catalyst and loosens the soil”…. So very true. It takes much integration and commitment after ceremony but, in the end, is often very rewarding/liberating but you must be committed to continuing the work. It’s not a quick fix by any means.
@@soulswork1111 I completely agree. Definitely not a quick fix, or a panacea.
he was taking advantage of it, to gain a trip. Looks like he got what he deserved for wannting to experiment with drugs. I'm not sorry for him.
@@marciestoddard730 he wasn't traumatised. He just wanted to manipulate his ex lover. he was just looking to get a trip. lolol. Not sorry for him.
I think taking a psychedelic in a circle of random strangers is a bad idea. My inner Cynic imagines that this circle or group model has more to do with the economics of running retreats than with what is actually the best way to engage with these medicines.
We live in a society who values extreme stuff. As if gentle was not good enough.
Great comment.. so true
@@annastone5624 thank you!!
That was good to hear, Emma
Totally,whilst I believe and have no doubt that these ceremonies and plants can be powerful medicines for some people at certain times,this I want a fix now society and wanting the drama and intensity is definitely a western thing.I think people are at one time desperate to expereince life fully whilst simultaneously being too scared just to simply open up to people around them or in ways that are bit by bit each day.
so true. quick fixes or super bombastic, romanticised transformative " i met god" experiences. For someone who got sold on the new age spirituality with past life regression, i can tell you its a big fraud.
I have participated in ayahuasca experience 3 times. Twice in Peruvian jungle and once in jungle in Ecuador. Always with genuine indiginous shaman. I have no psychological problems. Didnt do it for that kind of healing. Three wonderful profound spiritual experiences. The first time heard everything singing and now I know everything sings beautiful sounds all the time but not in state of mind to hear it. 2nd time floating in embryonic fluid of universal love. 3rd time healing of relationship with my deceased parents who came into my being. I am a long time meditator. I have done a lot of spiritual work. I dropped acid back in the 70s. Possibly more prepared than a lot of people and really understood it is a very sacred ceremony. I carry what I experienced with me and would do it again. Research. Go with someone you trust and make sure you are physically and spiritually and mentally prepared. Peace
My first ceremony with Ayuhasca was the best experience ever even thou it was profoundly painful as it revealed a lot of the memories and emotions I’ve buried. For 6 intense hours I was taken constantly from a traumatic event to another. Once the traumatic event was elaborated, re-written and integrated, I was taken to another one. I can understand how this experience can be very triggering for someone that is not prepared to face their deepest traumas and don’t have the emotional capacity to integrate and elaborate what is happening during the ceremony. For me, Ayuhasca helped me solve in 1 night with a single dose, traumas that neither 10 years of psychotherapy would’ve been able to help me with.
I’m thinking about doing ayuhasca or 5 Meo-DMT but i don’t know how i Will integrate what will come up
@@muhyadindahir3188 Go with an open mind and trust that you will have the mental and spiritual strength to cope with everything that will show up. It’s not a given that you will have visions. Many people in the group I was in had none or very little. Just trust the process. Be an active participant and be curious. If something shows up, asks to understand more about it. You are conscious the whole time and to get out of a vision all
You have to do is open your eyes.
I have done 5 ceremonies so far. The last one was last night. And I have always had profound beautiful experiences even thou there was always some buried emotions and truths I had to see and feel. I wish you make the right choice for you and be sure you will do it in a safe environment with people that are capable to conduct the ceremony properly. The integration process usually happens the day after with the facilitators/shamans. At least that’s how it worked whenever I’ve done it. Best of luck to you.
Absolutely 💯 the same experience with me!!! You communicate with your soul which is your higher self, your higher perspective and there is nothing bad about it. If you are not ready to reach higher levels at the moment, you will go through tough moments with the medicine.
@@muhyadindahir3188 not sure if that dmt you mention is the type that takes you in an intense concentrate trip for 15 minutes only. If that's the case i dont reccomend. Specially if u havent had ayahuasca experiences that would give ypu a frame from where to work with a shorter dmt trip. I had 7 ayahuasca ceremonies at the tine i did my first short dmt, and, boy, that was traumatic, not the 7 previous all night ceremonies. Ay gives you time to process. All night, and slowly integrating day after. Of course it can be too much. But if one's gonna compare one medicine and the other, they are way different because of time and duration.
With whom did you do your experience? Did you utilize your somatic energy during? Pablo had to use Levine technic m to integrate.
This can happen to you even without ayahuasca, it’s an awakening and can happen from loss, stress, breakups anything can trigger it and your entire life can fall apart because this is process of healing from the person you thought you were into your true self.
Absolutely
Talk your shit !!
This is soooo true. I had that with certain men coming into my life, one was a narcissist. Then a healer who screwed me over, then multiple mental breakdowns and last year I had an Ayahuasca type experience by meeting another masculine soulmate on marriage app, met him once and went through what was another breaking down of my ego. When I finally did plant medicine a few weeks ago to clear more depression, the impact was exactly the same as when I met the man! 😮 Except much gentler and I haven't been acting like a crazy obsessed person 😅 but been able to cook and attend appointments and be whole.
I like to believe it's divine energy flowing through me and all my lost soul fragments coming back because before I've been so depressed and demotivated
Definitely. But that’s “organic” reality rather than placing yourself into a drug induced ceremony your system may not have the captivity for.
Exactly what I was just about to say as well. I’ve experienced this from seeing the truth and seeking to understand.
Sometimes I have thought about doing ayahuasca, but I'm so sensitive. This solidifies that it's not for me.
Same
I’m so glad! I wish I had heard this information before doing it as this same thing happened to me! It’s been an awful several years since I’ve done it…but because of the cult like following this medicine has…this kind of information was not available at the time 😢
OR it could be your own self holding you back from true healing.
Fear blocks a lot of blessings and opportunities.
@@marisacognetta4985 What was your purpose of taking Ayahuasca? What was your intention? Were you seeking healing? Or recreational purposes?
I am sensitive and I just had a lower dose, was one of the more life changing experiences of my life and can’t wait to do it again!!
Sometimes we are looking for healing in all the wrong places..thank you for sharing.
So true 🙏
That’s how some ppl feel about big pharma sedatives etc
@@Pikachu-qr4yb that is why we have to stay away from hardcore experiences such as ayahuasca or mushrooms, so we remain safe and sane enough to not go into any mental institution. Mental institutions are full of people that develop psychosis after those extreme experiences. We should take care of each other.
@@sinforoso1974 lol
@@Pikachu-qr4yb it's not a war between evil big pharma and the innocent plant medicine. One hopefully would be lucky enough to avoid both.
I'm not sure why people feel a need to excuse one or the other.
It seems like an eternal need to divide, take side and more or less unknowingly work on an agency's behalf.
What you experienced is called a spiritual emergency. I had this 8 years ago when my natural DMT releases from my 3rd eye and I thought I was loosing my mind and having night terrors and flash backs etc. yes I had severe trauma background. Please note that this happened naturally so without plant meds. The soul can decide it’s time to spiritually wake up. It took me 2 years to integrate but it was so worth it
Can you share your tips for how you integrated and how it affects you now? Thanks
Integrate how. Mine happend 2015 and still have not know How to integrerats. 🙏🩵
I am another person who developed serious nervous system issues post Ayahuasca. It took me over two years to recover. I could not sleep for more than 4 hours for almost a whole year. This man almost had an identical navigation that I took. I spent close to $10,000 trying to figure out how to heal, going all over the place seeking out people to help me. My doctor said I should write a book also. So I'm about 4 years out now. I was able to go back to work fortunately. But I still suffer from sensory overload and memory loss. I'm considering getting a $3,000 assessment with neuropsychology because this issue. I don't advise anyone to take Ayahuasca if you are a highly sensitive individual, possibly have ADHD or on the neurodivergent spectrum. The rewiring of the system significant chaos. I'm thankful to be able to work again because at one point I thought I was going to be homeless. I'm a medical professional as well. It's been a really tumultuous past 4 years years. I'm glad to hear that this man healed.
Hello, Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for sharing. You might find this podcast featuring Irene quite interesting irenelyon.com/guest-appearances/30-ayahuasca-nervous-system-health-wellness-irene-lyon-collective-evolution-with-joe-martino/
Wishing you a smooth onward healing journey.
Thank you
Hi there,
I am severely crippled 8 years after having several bad ayahuasca trips.
I can only work about 5 hours a week.
I am bed-ridden about 80 percent of the time.
Could you please tell me what helped you recover?
Can I ask what was different about your experience from the insomnia so many people experience? Not getting enough sleep is quite common and has a lot of causes, what makes you think its connected with ayahuasca?
How did you heal? I am going through something similar.
Very similar path brother. Thank you both for having the bravery to speak on such a topic and provide harm reduction wisdom to those concidering this means of healing. Blessings continue to follow you where ever you go!
I can deeply relate to Juan Pablo’s story, and I’m so grateful he shared. Every part of his story, from his childhood existentialism, to losing his senses and feeling as though he was dying, to his journey to healing resonates. That’s also how I found Irene. These stories aren’t talked about often, but they aren’t uncommon. Your bravery will help others ❤️
just another young wreckless guy looking for a quick trip. Lame.
Thank you Irene! I’m in the same boat as Juan. It is not a panacea. I had several very negative experiences. My CNS was really freaked out from it.
Thank you for sharing. This was an amazing video. Plant medicine is big business now, and there are more unhealed healers holding ceremony, making tons of money and leaving people unresolved, thinking they had a healing, creating more trauma. It's like a rite of passage to go through all that physical/psychic/emotional/mental intensity...peak experience....Plus there are so many healing centers that seem like cults....you really have to be SO discerning with where you are going to heal.
I think going to India, Bali or some exotic place to heal is an expansion of the idea that we are not enough and the answer is somewhere outside. We dont need to travel, we need to come home to ourselves.
Amen! I made this mistake. But the greatest healing has happened at home in the UK
And I also think if something is getting you 'high' rather than bringing you into a more connected relationship with your body, that's also the same thing.
Say it louder!!! Lol all jokes aside…home is within
Great video!!
Substances like psychedelics when administered temporarily and in the minimum and safe dose can save life (prevent suicide), yet..long term all of them are NOT the answer (solution to the problem). self honesty, emotional and spiritual healing (done correctly) produce safe and lasting results..health happiness, inner peace
I’ve been researching on psychedelics and it’s benefits to individuals dealing with Anxiety, Depression, ADHD and from my findings, they really work and I’ve been eager to get some for a while but its been difficult to get my hands on them.
The Trips I've been having really helped me a lot. I’m now able to meditate and I finally feel in control of my emotions and my future and things that used to be mundane to me now seem incredible and full of nuance on top of that I'm way less driven by my ego and I have alot more empathy as well
I was having this constant, unbearable anxiety due to work stress. Not until I came across a very intelligent mycologist. He saved my life honestly
His name is *DR Adolf Petter*
@ohmakure4716
I feel the same way too. I put too much on my plate and it definitely affects my stress and anxiety levels. I am also glad to be a part of this community.
Being literally surrounded by psychedelics and mental health specialists, I am coming to the conclusion that a great portion of the people doing psychedelic treatment are looking for a shortcut to spiritual groundedness or healing.
Agree with this
Only if you take the shortcuts and dont follow the necessary protocol. Also when one combines several different medicines, which is not following protocol.
You are right. I'm just an exception.
I used to have horrific bad trips without ever taking any psychedelics. I'm afraid If I do so, I will go out of my mind completely. There's too much junk in my subconscious mind. Spiritual path is never easy. If that's thr case.
Sort of true. It is a bit of a bypass that should inform you and not become a crutch.
I havent taken psychodelics. But it seems to be a journey of intention. A friend did it in Peru with a Shaman and a team of nurses. It required a 3 day fast, constant meditation and intention before taking ayahuasca. So, it is not like smoking weed or popping pills. That's the wrong approach.
Thank you for this raw real truthful open interview. Irene, Juan Pablo gave such a genuine account. And I love how aware he was before and now even more of himself.
I was thrilled to hear that Byron Katie's work is still alive.
That he knew he wasn't ready to confront the dark and how smart his advice or just relaying his experience that if it's not time to deal with that darkness you probably shouldn't.
This was such a refreshing interview. ♡
I was stuck in the endless loop of suffering too. There are no words to express how terrifying it is. I thought ‘the jokes on me. I drank the koolaid… I will be here suffering forever.’ I still have flashbacks of that moment and have intense fear about the nature of reality. I do think there is a deeper message to learn from that experience. To me… I just took away from it much of what the Buddha taught… life is suffering… we have to surrender. Thank you for sharing your story. I’m grateful you came out the other side 🙏💖
To accept the nature of reality as it is. There is no control. You have no control
Was this from taking ayahuasca? What was the set and setting?
You probably experienced your ego death
I had a really horrible Ayahuasca experience as well that left me really messed up, and the organizers say it's "just the healing taking place." I was in a constant triggered mode where I couldn't sleep, and I was so ungrounded I started to lose touch with reality and go psychotic and lose my mind. This was over 3 years ago and I'm doing so much better now, in fact the best I ever have before. I can't say I regret doing it because it really got me talking about my painful past and my beliefs but I compare my experience through this like botched surgery that I ended up recovering from. I feel bad for the people who don't have a support network or cooler heads in their life to help them with what happens after an experience like this because it was the hardest thing I've ever been through and I'm grateful I'm here today thriving. Use extreme caution before going to one of these retreats, please. Do not get swept away by their magical healing talk and how it's all "meant to be" and all sorts of asinine new age junk that's thrown in and easily confuses a person who isn't thinking straight from all the painful beliefs and memories they have and physical/emotional state they are in. There is a tremendous amount of risk when it comes to this stuff and they throw all caution into the wind cause "they can just feel and sense who is ready to drink the medicine." It's much safer to do a lot of research and do this in a modern therapeutic environment with people who have training and oversight, there is definitely need for some oversight and a more comprehensive and developed screening process and support system after taking stuff like this. Not some retreat in the middle of the jungle where they just send you on your way after.
@@marciestoddard730 Correct, many are engaging with the most powerful experiences that are possible without being ready or called. I really believe this is the reality, and if you are called and have this expiereince its exactly what your soul needed. These medicines are not little retreats they have the ability to do anything that is needed including break you to your knees.
@@Btouhy1 very true. The intention was fear and ego based not based on soul calling. And disrespecting the preparation diet. This medicine is s very powerful healing tool and not to be taken lightly, but with full respect and responsibility. Ayahuasca is for everyone, but not everyone is for Ayahuasca.
Thank you for sharing your experience, I was considering doing Ayahuasca on a retreat in Hawaii… but now I will reconsider it… they offer a 4 hour journey… this made me suspicious… I’m quite sensitive to pharma meds, so plant based meds are my go to… but we must be careful, even with nature and quick fix remedies… I’m glad I found this video!
@@f12sus 4 hours is way too short!!!
you have to let go
Thank you so much for talking about this and shining light on it.
As Juan Pablo said "This is F#$@ing it". That's exactly how I feel. Starting this work is the best thing I could have done. Also after trying many other modalities. Thanks, and all the best to you sir. And thanks as always Irene xx
This is a really eye opening interview. Thank you for sharing your story and experience with ayahuasca. It just goes to show how important it is to not rush healing or take on cultural practices that we have not studied well enough to grasp. You're so right, healing is not linear and we are all on our own journey❤️ I will definitely cross ayahuasca off my bucket list and go for somatic breathwork instead!
The same thing happened to me. Overly intense experience went for 12 hours straight. Negligent and untrained people in charge. Matter of fact, The shaman left midway through. Left me scared for 2 years and to pick up the pieces. People don't understand this is not a toy or a weekend fix. Auyahuasca is like opening up pandoras box what you see, find out and realize are yours for life but what you sacrifice far out weighs its beauty.
I'm glad you found your way out of it. Must've been very challenging.
I also had a really terrifying experience. The "shaman" had the fix for me when I said that I felt off and needed help. He gave me more.
Luckily I managed to pull through and ended up with a really solid experience that taught me a lot about myself. That said, I'd never recommend it to anyone. It is after all the most potent psychoactive drug on the planet.
I also know one person who has been on psychotic meds since he went to the jungle, and another who is completely lost. They'll never be the same.
@@JamieR that’s awful!
@@JamieR Bro that bothers me so deeply. I hope they are alright!
I met a teacher who is legit and he gave me tools & techniques for which I came out of about 80-90% of my Auyahscua Issues and also the issues that I was looking to find in the first place. It all came full circle in its own time.
In my opinion, no one is too far gone. Respectfully, I have to disagree with you there, they can come out of it. It would just take a lot of work.
Take care Jamie.
F around, and find out 🤷♀️
true.
Wow, when you, Irene, mentioned how strong his soul was….
Tears.
I resonate so much with Juan’s experience, and in the 4 months since the ceremonies I have been beating myself up because I didn’t take 3 cups or for being weak.
I really really needed to hear your words and to witness Juan’s beautifully emotional response to your reflection.
think there is this unspoken view on plant medicine in the spiritual community and how if it isn’t right for someone, it means their system isn’t strong enough to handle it. And that’s so harmful. It has nothing to do with weakness. I think highly sensitive people that could possibly be neurodivergent people, people with complex ptsd, and severe mental illness, it just isn’t a good match and it’s true that a lot of these shamans are not equipped to deal with or manage the space that needs to be held for those psychological needs. Simply because it’s kinda foreign to a lot of them.
Oh this was good and I love how slow the message develops 🧡 blessings to him in his journey .
I wish I could share this conversation with everyone I know and their friends! I am a Somatic Experiencing practitioner and in the past year I am getting more and more requests from people who have had bad ayahuasca experiences. It has become so popular as people are seeking new avenues to explore their truths, which in itself is beautiful. But with more and more inexperienced spaceholders with hardly any awareness of the risks and dangers, this is a recipe for disaster for many. Thanks Irene and Juan Pablo for sketching this picture in so much detail, as well as the hopeful message for anyone who has gone through a similar experience!
Hi there,
I have been terribly damaged by ayahuasca to the extent that I am barely able to function at a very basic level and am unable to work. So I have lost everything and am homeless now. I have been desperately trying to find a somatic experiencing practitioner but they do not accept Medicaid. Do you by chance know if anyone does accept it?
Hey, you can learn it yourself; that’s what I’m doing. I’ve never done ayuhasca, but I had an unintentional kundalini awakening 5 yrs ago… Let me know if you’d like to connect. Are you doing any better now? Интересный ник, кстати - Сопротивление…
@@soprotivleniye7620 In the directory of practitioners of Somatic Experiencing, you will find people that accept insurance.
One of my favorite videos in it's own right. Thank you, Juan Pable & Irene 🕉
Such a good video!
I can totally relate with the danger of substances and of spiritual journey/meditation.
Thank you for share it guys ❤️
I did Ayahuasca 15 years into my personal development and spiritual journey And I had a very good experience! I think the preparation is very important and also many other factors such as the space, the shaman and the community
Yes, definitely.. also to not force it and go when ready. I have waited 7 years to overcome serious trauma and fears before taking it
Now I know the reasons why I have never intuitively been attracted to undertaking plant medicine ceremonies. Thank you for sharing this very detailed video.❤
Thank you for this brave post, sharing a difficult experience. Just a reminder to everyone that we've never heard of anyone having lasting damage from music healing practices.
Are you talking about bowls?
Thank you. For sharing this. It probably took him immense courage to be able to talk about it and having to remember and re-live everything in thought… I feel very grateful for your sharing, that’s precious to hear. I have always had a feeling… That’s exactly why I never did plant medicine, even not smoking the slightest thing… I have been through strong panic attacks for years, without having taken anything. Life was already scary enough. And I survived it. I finally built a stronger nervous system, after years and years of nervous system break down… I can’t imagine what this man has gone through while taking the plant and after… it’s not for everybody, and often people don’t talk about the dark side of plant medicine. Some people even go there without knowing what they are doing, and the risk they are taking.
My acupuncturist started “encouraging” me (it felt like pressuring) to lean deeper into some very traumatic family stuff and write a letter to my mother - at a time when I was teaching myself some “brain rewiring” practices that essentially involved doing quite the opposite, bringing myself back to the present and letting go of rumination on the past. She said that I was ignoring trauma and needed to face it in order to work through it, otherwise it would always stay stuck in my body. I instinctively knew this was deeply harmful for me, but I didn’t stop seeing her for several months because I was so emotionally vulnerable. I didn’t have the self confidence to do what was right for me. I can see now that this had a negative impact on my healing for a while. Listen to your instincts.
That really sucks ! I’m sorry that happened to you. I hope you get back on track for your best healing. 👍🌈
@@ucanleaveyourhaton thank you yes, I am back on track with healing.
That's a major issue with talk therapy too. Trauma needs to be dealt with differently esp for those of us with rumination issues. Same with journaling.
Sounds like they were out of their scope of practice as a “acupuncturist”
UTTERLY outside her scope of practice. Reportable to her professional body, additionally she would certainly be in breach of the terms of her insurance. I’m sorry this happened to you and I hope you find yourself in a better place soon ❤️
Brilliant interview. Very eye opening. Good to know the 'other side' of ayahuasca 🙏🏻
I found this discussion so resonant. I had a similar experience 30
Years ago when something was put in my drink. I got stuck in what felt like a never ending loop where I lost sight of what was real and what wasn’t. When this experience was over (I ended up in hospital after about 8 hours of looping and running away from my own self -thank god I had a friend there) I was a different person. I became full of fear and everything felt
Like a threat. It affected me for 20 years until I discovered hypnotherapy and yoga. I also realised I had all the symptoms of PTSD. Once I realised what had happened to me and began releasing the control it had over me by practicing yoga, polyvagal theory exercises I am now able to self regulate my nervous system. Like you, I now devote my life to helping others heal from trauma through somatic exercises and yoga. Thank you for sharing as I have tried to piece together what happened
To me that night. It was terrifying
What an evil thing to do to you. Glad you survved it. Do you know who did this I wonder?
Very genuine and articulate young man. Thanks for sharing x
your point about cultural illness being unnatural got me thinking about a grove trees I used to walk through on the river.
initially when I would go through there I would suddenly get a sense of panic, the urge to escape immediately.
even in broad daylight.
after a few months of this I finally stopped to ask the trees what's going on. they responded by saying "you're ok, we are just trying to keep the assholes out. fear is a universal repellant."
they eased up on me from then on.
I reckon my acknowledgement of their presence allowed for some kind of pardon.
I can't even imagine using a powerful plant medicine without being attuned to earth mama first.
sounds like a roll of the dice.
This is such an important message, thank you both for sharing! I know someone who took her life after a "ceremony". It is critical to address what needs deep healing before diving into plant medicines, and there are many unscrupulous practitioners offering ceremony without any knowledge of safety or providing a safe container...say nothing of preparation and follow-up processing. with participants.
Amazingly, I had come across this channel a mere month before my ayahuasca ceremony. I believe I stumbled right down the path that was the most helpful to me by taking Irene's course on SE just before taking the plant medicine. I had not taken the bait of "spiritual bypassing" and knew I had things within me that needed letting go, so I went into ceremony believing thoroughly that I was going to purge the trapped trauma by allowing my body to do whatever it needed without my Default Mode Network getting in the way, and that is exactly what happened. Had I not known what my body was experiencing throughout the ceremony (convulsions, panic attacks, random uncontrolled movements, fits of rage, terror at feeling that I was a consciousness stripped of my body, etc), I would have been far less prepared to handle it the way that I did, which was to lean into it. I was still absolutely miserable during and exhausted afterwards. Even the days that followed I still experienced panic attacks, but was able to soothe myself with reason and theory from Irene's course and have come back better than before. I'm not truly convinced that I could have gotten over myself on my own, but would agree that ayahuasca is a very cathartic and traumatic way to go and think that I can do the work myself now with the jumpstart that was that ceremony. I definitely believe that a course in SE would be very helpful to MANY people before taking ayahuasca, if they still felt it was something they needed, and I am looking into deepening my education on this topic to one day help others in this combination of modalities. Thank you, Juan and Irene, for this wonderful intersectional talk.
This episode stirred so much strong emotion and feeling in me when I first watched it and it was a wonderful gift that it did because I was given an opportunity to discover what was in my nervous system, that this interview had triggered.. The same could be said for JUan Paolo and his experience with ayahuasca, that rather than destroy his nervous system, ayahuasca triggered and brought to conscious awareness what was already there. I have heard Irene talk about this in a previous video pointing out that "it will open the floodgates to the unconscious" and should be approached with caution.
Ironically, I was on a 7 day ayahuasca retreat when the interview was being recorded and experienced many of the same things as Juan Paola, the difference is that I went in without an agenda ie hoping it would save a relationship, I took a lot of time in choosing the team that would facilitate my retreat, had already done a lot of work in regulating my nervous system and followed the guidance of the shamans for both preparation and integration of the retreat. Ayahuasca is not and should not be seen as a magic treatment to cure all in one dose, which it sounds like what Juan Paolo expected it to be. Yes, there are many calling themselves shamans that are nothing of the kind, which is why research and careful consideration of intention as well as expectation is so important. Ayahuasca is a very powerful medicine, to be treated with respect and approached in the correct manner.
THat the interview was presented in the way it was I found both shocking and disappointing because I have heard Irene speak of the risks before, so she is not unaware. If approached and used in the correct maner, ayahuasca and indeed other psychedelics, can be a very powerful tool for healing and that more care was not taken with clarifying this in the interview I find very sad. Humanity needs all the help it can get with healing, whatever modality anyone chooses to make use of and interviews like this, serve only to cause more confusion, mis-information, distress, anxiety and division. A very biased, one sided interview, made all the more shocking that it was made and promoted by Irene, it would seem for commercial gain,.
Agreed
I've been thinking of going to a Ayahuasca retreat. May I ask which retreat did you go to?
Man, this interview triggers stuff in my system. I had a traumatic event like that with marihuana. Extreme fear and then dissociation, that left me with years of panic and chronic fear.Back then I didn’t know I was so disregulated that my system couldn’t take such stimulation. I was angry with myself that I listened to a friend who recommended me to smoke that joint so that I can relax a bit. My dad passed couple of months prior to this and I was in a bad shape already then this harmless friendly meeting turned into a nightmare. Thankfully now I know more and I am healing with Irene’s program day by day. It has to be slow and steady so that my system can feel safe in this world again.
I was from a very very traumatic family. At 16 I had one try on a joint and tried to take my own life that night. That’s how sensitive my system was and is x
How are you now? Has SE work removed your fears and anxiety?
@@thewaterprophet6880 how are you now?
I am on my way to regulation, through SBSM with Irene I’ve gained so much wisdom. My capacity has grown and I understand myself and my system better. This work isn’t about removing anything, it’s about learning the language of the body and how to be with it in "good and bad". You can watch an interview Irene did with me this August. I am forever greatful for her work, it really have saved my life.
@UpRyzeQueen which course is it ?
Thank you so much for this interview, Irene and Juan Pablo 🙏 there are so many parallels between this story and my own. It currently feels like there is space expanding and a softening within my ribcage. Simply hearing that there is an ‘other side’ of experiences like this, that there are others who have come through and out of that terrifying experience helps me remain hopeful.
It has been a year and seven months since I had a hallucinogenic experience in which it felt like my chronic freeze was lifting from my body, to name one of the less terrifying things that i experienced during those 15 hours. This time last year, I was considering suicide. Very few people seem to mention that the hallucinations don’t stop after the initial ‘trip’. I used to think that because I had acted on that ideation in the past rather ineffectively, the fear of failing again is what kept me from following through. Knowing what I known now, I realize I wasn’t giving enough credit to my body’s natural proclivity towards survival. Though, I really did feel that the after affects would never cease and could not imagine any other alternative at the time.
I found SBSM through obsessive searching into what was happening and trying to find healing of any sort.
I’m currently in my second round of the program, and it has been *the* key in my finding regulation again.
I still feel survival stress surface from time to time, especially surrounding autonomic functions like swallowing. Now, when it arises, I am able to orient and sense my way to more relief and increased capacity as I continue practicing. I have recently been able to recognize the feeling of sensory overload before it creates a state of sympathetic activation in my body that feels like life or death. I have also begun to accept my aggression more (something I was very ashamed of as long as I can remember) now that I am aware of safe and ethical ways to express it through my body. And most of all, i have found myself slowly becoming curious again, as opposed to hyper vigilantly assessing and categorizing all stimulus and information. I have even started to find myself becoming curious about connecting with other humans again- a realization that came as a bit of a surprise to me. Connecting with my felt sense more has started to open up this integrated sense of be-ing in me that a lifetime of obsessive analyzation and spiritual bypassing could not.
I am so grateful for the work you do, Irene (and Seth), and for how accessible you make this information. I truly believe that this knowledge needs to be more widespread- it bridges so many gaps present in current therapeutic approaches.
For lack of words to describe how I’m feeling, I hope this emphatic thank you can convey it. Thank you!! 🙏
Arya Star, it's really inspiring to hear about the all changes you've created (and continue to create) as you apply what you've learned in SBSM! Thanks for taking the time to write about your experience. - Jen from Team Lyon
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I definitely feel completely caught up in "obsessive analyzation and spiritual bypassing."
Paralyzed by it. Terrified of connecting consistently to my felt sense.
You purchased Irene's 12 week program then and that has supported you?
thanks for another insightful discussion.
Irene Lyon and Juan Pablo, thank you so much for this interview!
You're doing a great service to people.
I never tried Ayahuasca and I won't. I already had my share of prescribed and unprescribed drugs and lucky me I had to go through short-time inconveniences from both before I understood that my body (and psyche) don't need any and generally speaking NO psycho-active ingredients. Some people are just like that. I cut off the little amount of alcohol I used to drink and gave up on coffee. Best decisions ever.
I came to know more about Ayahuasca because I randomly listened to hinos and dances and I immediately clicked with the music.
The most fascinating side for me is the DMT part as a chemical we naturally have in our brains (like so many others) that is being released in big doses before death and in NDE.
There are a lot of documentaries about this plant, mostly of two types:
1) Churches of Santo Daime with lot of people singing and dancing, standing on their feet after drinking the cup (as if they're taking the blood of Christ, but where's the body).
From an outer perspective they look simply happy, smiling, calm, gently shaking their bodies in an organised dance with no off-beat physical movements, open eyes, some have a deeply meditating expression with close eyes and nobody can say if they're fine or not but they still are standing up, older people quietly sitting in their chair, moms with small children who get their small dose of the drug... At the end of the night in the forest, every one is still so calm, clean, their white clothes still look pristine, the ones who get interviewed simply look a bit over the lines in a pleasant way, people quietly go back to their lives.
More or less the same with videos of these churches in other countries, like Japan.
2) Tales from the "I wanted it to be dramatic and it was": people from western civilization looking for a strong experience or for healing where other things failed, paying big money
to go to a well-kept resort with fancy self-proclaimed shamans, mats and buckets and toilet paper, everyone doing their own thing, screams, crying, puking and shitting, feeling devasted afterwards but going through more, shamans being quite unaware of what's going on, 4 days of devastation. Then some are ecstatic about the experience and others (more than you think) are scared or just nervously broke for long time.
So either people are different with different psychic backgrounds, different intention from both shamans/facilitators and people or the drug is done differently or the environment is different or whatever OR there is a lot of untold and conveniently cut off from camera and people's experience.
Who's cheating here?
fantastic, fantastic talk!! so much i resonated with here. thank you so much Irene and Juan Pablo for this! i feel SOOO much grounding after watching this in trusting my body.
It triggers a dark night of the soul . Most important thing to do is to ground yourself
Ayahuasca opens up your trauma. That is why it feels traumatic. That is what it does. It will be your responsibility how you work through that trauma. Sounds as if he was able to do that. This is a great conversation for him to share what helped him process that trauma. 1000% there needs to be more conversations and after retreat care for people to know how to process this trauma. I think there are a whole lot of people including myself that have had to deal with everything by ourselves that it doesn’t even cross our minds that other people might need help processing the trauma that comes up.
Such great grounding rare information. A big takeaway is that there is no guru who knows your body & mind better than you. The instinct to "obey" as you said, can be so damaging. We are each the authority on our own lives, the hard part is actually listening & following through on what is heard, instead of giving up our responsibility to someone else (which seems so much easier).
Thank you for sharing your story Juan!🙏 I almost didn't watch this video because the title sounded click-baity, but it was like nourishment to my mind to hear someone else speak of things I've experienced also.
I just finished a therapy session talking about my ayahuasca experience gone wrong, and I swear, 2 minutes later I saw your newsletter in my mailbox with this video..... Mind blown!!! Can't wait to watch this
Tell me about your bad trip please.
Was your phone nearby as you spoke in therapy by any chance? I used to think that such things were huge coincidences or even more but dicovered that our 'smsrt' phones listen to all we do and fill our phone feed with related stuff. Its happened many times to me. Shocking invasion of orivacy that Edward Snowden and others have warned about. Due to other feed items sent to me on my phone I believe the phone camera 'watches' also. So if you have anything you wish to keep private....
I Cant believe the watch this now.. 5 years ago I exactly lived the same experience what he told.. it was horrible..this is serious not a toy
How did you recover? Please help.
Thanks Irene, this is such an interesting topic. In hindsight we'd ideally build a strong foundation of mind-body awareness before experimenting with altered states, but it doesn't always happen that way - I can relate. Dimethyltryptamine (DMT, the psychotropic molecule in the Ayahuasca brew) is so strange and special... but much of society has yet to make a space for it in our worldview... as it can be such a bizarre and surprising experience in small doses, it's no wonder entire Ayahuasca sessions can be stressful/ traumatic. Thanks for sharing this talk. Blessings!
This interview is FULL. I can't thank you enough.
Thank you both ❤️
Thank you for this conversation, Irene and Juan Pablo! In 2016, my chronic illness was at its worst. I wasn't able to sleep, my nerves were buzzing and my heart would jerk me awake anytime I was about to fall asleep. I got stuck on the idea that an Ayahuasca ceremony would heal me; curing my mental and physical agony. Until this day, I still don't know how I did it, but I booked an Aya retreat in Costa Rica. I made the first leg of my journey to Florida. Then, I completely collapsed. I could not make it to Costa Rica. Today, I'm so clear that I would have died in ceremony. My liver would not have been able to process the medicine and my NS definitely wouldn't have been able to handle the experience. And... my adrenals were in no shape to handle physical purging. I'm so grateful I was lead to Function Nutrition, the work of Anthony William and your SE work, Irene! These tools have me feeling more grounded and connected than ever! Yet, at this time, I know I am still not ready for a "big" plant medicine experience- and that's ok! I am enjoying mystical experiences that are within my capacity.
Were you on any meds or had you come off any when you started experiencing this buzzing?
I have always said I feel like I was born depressed and it’s been a battle throughout my entire life.
Trauma healing work can be quite challenging and involves a balancing act of providing a safe space and resources and preparation in tandem with reprocessing traumatic memories. If you push someone into the reprocessing before they have adequate preparation and resources then it can leave them stuck even deeper in their trauma states. Psychedelics are particularly hazardous since they use chemical intoxication with foreign substances rather than meditative skills to disrupt the ordinary mental filters that keep things in the subconscious out of our awareness. It's harder to withdraw from the encounter if you are not ready for it. Psychedelics can be powerful facilitators of healing but care is definitely needed when using any powerful tool.
I didn’t try this but It almost sounds to me like people that are already sensitive souls and can get deep into themselves that these stuff can just takes things too far for a human to handle. I did some heavy deep breathwork and fainted , I kept blacking out throughout the day, got super weak and couldn’t get back to myself for weeks, I was told it would heal me and it’s only beneficial it can’t harm but I learned that there’s no shortcuts and natural and slow works best. So I will stick to my old methods that work like regular excerises for nervous system and natural breathing , nothing to crazy. Stuff that feels like my body can handle , meditation and prayer :)
Great insight
Did you try that hyperventilating type of breathwork where they tell you to breath in and out really forcefully and fast? That didn't look right to me. It looks like mimicking a panic response, and I don't know how that can be beneficial? I'm sure you're right that the drastic methods can look attractive, because we think they might be faster. Slow and incremental, w/ moderation is usually best. We're already in distress in various degrees, bringing on more distress (in the name of helping) can't be right.
I have participated with plant medicine. I have had lots of trauma as a child and young adult .
When I participated I followed all the guidelines to the T.
I did not play with the medicine in any way. I had the upmost respect for the medicine.
I would never approach something so powerful without that complete respect.
Why would anyone do this medicine and not adhere to the guidelines and expect to have good results?
Also the medicine called me while I was in a deep meditation literally. I believe you have to be called to do it. From this account I hear he was not called to do it. He did it because a friend paid for it.
This medicine is powerful. All the components have to be in place with the upmost respect.
I have never heard of anyone committing suicide after a journey.
I knew death was a possibility. I was offered more medicine and I knew myself well enough to say no to the second dose. I came into it with complete respect. It has changed me for the better.
This young man approached this medicine with some degree of disrespect by not adhering to the protocol prior to using the medicine.
You cannot play with this medicine for kicks and thrills, for sure. Even the deaths related to it have been brought on by not adhering to to the pre experience guidlines.
How does one die from a pyschedelic like this? I thought it was just altering consciousness and making it easier for one to detach from resistance...
Please help inform me.
R.I.P and respect to those who have passed from this 🙏✨️
your victim blaming
@@merovingianv3462 victim mentality never gets us any where.
I wish people would stop taking spiritual practices and substances out of their specific cultural context and commercialising them, without proper grounding 🤦♀️ It’s disrespectful and as we’re seeing, dangerous. It’s not the FU to big pharma that so many want to believe.
I would say it's less about cultural context and more about spiritual context. If you are doing these things without understanding of the deep spiritual root of them and where they came from and how and why they were used spiritually by the people who first found them, that is disrespectful, not just to yourself but to the medicine and to the people who's spiritual lineage understands the substance better than you do.
I have had incredible life changing experiences with plant medicines administered by shamans who weren't from the culture the medicine is from, but received the spiritual training of the culture. So the medicine was honored because of the spiritual lineage, not the cultural one.
@@queengoblin correct
Some people are so desperate for help and have no where left to turn, survival trumps all 😢
@@queengoblin I want to agree with you quite a bit, but i do think that there is value in realising that the culturally-specific and site-specific is important, right down to it being a part of your actual, genetic lineage. Something that has been part of your ancestors ingestion is encoded on your DNA and is also entwined with other plants and practices. Nervous systems are in different states of repair (or disrepair) and that’s tied up in colonisation - both for colonised people and the colonisers. I’m an Anglo-Celt. I do not expect that the spirit medicine of Latin America is mine to take or would be of benefit in the same way to some whose lineage it is.
I’ve met one too many suburban white boy ‘shamans’ 😂 who would need to find other employment if they weren’t making people throw up in living rooms 🐸
@@ThisIsEmilyKate THIS!!!!!
This reminds me of an EDMR therapist who suggested and pressured me in the session to do a bresthwork excercise that was prana. It literally traumatized me that it wiped out my stomach acid leading to me almost being hospitalized. I don’t even knew that could be possible but I’m never doing that again and I’m never even going back to EDMR. Gentle somatic work has been more than enough for me and body feels better because of it.
I had similar thing and did deep breathe work I was told it will heal me and I blacked out few times and felt super weak and took me weeks to stop feeling so weak and scared . These things can be so scary
I don't understand all the terms and abbreviations people are using. Where you both doing some type of intense breath work, that must have been pretty unnatural? Can you explain what was the method to avoid please?
I've done gentle types of breath work that can be very grounding and helpful. Breath is life and we tend to shallow breath or hold our breath when really stressed, so regulating breath and getting oxygen into the tissues properly can only help. I've seen methods for a type of super fast breath work where you're told to hyperventilate. I instinctly thought that can't be good, at all.
I have done holotropic breathwork with a group of 10 people facilitated by a therapist who studied with Stan Grof. Really great. Did it twice with her. Traveled out of body. visited a friend 40 miles away. Called her on the phone later and told her what I saw, what she was doing, so verified i'd actually gone. Confirmation consciousness does not reside within this body. No fear of death.
@@alicehesselrode467 Please be careful. You got taught to astral project. it's very real, but people have had very bad experiences after awhile when they've detached from their body. It can leave you open to very negative entities and some people have found they were detaching when they didn't want to anymore and there was nothing positive about it.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 I appreciate your concern. I had holographic breath work session close to 20 years ago. I have learned remote viewing through Institute of Noetic Science, and through Russell Targ. . I have met the angelic beings who hang out with me. Non physical beings. And that was not my first out of body experience. "Awoke" in the midst of serious operation in my 20s and saw doctor and nurses in operating room. Now I am in my 70s so many years of psychic experiences . I will not buy into fear. Maybe if someone is fearful and doesn't know the benevolent non physical beings bad stuff could happen.
I've participated in 9 Ayahuasca ceremonies. Do not know if I was really prepared or just lucky, so far all of them have ranged from positive to life-changing positive. I quit drinking (used to be a heavy drinker) and do meditation breathwork 5 times a day. Since the beginning of this journey I have never been happier in my life. Many friends and family have joined me, mostly positive with a couple of exceptions. I am no expert, but my suggestion is to pick your Shaman wisely and try to listen to your inner voice before you decide to participate in one of these ceremonies.
Tell me about the exceptions.
Just a few minutes in and I can already relate to so much of what Juan is saying about spiritual experiences. My nervous system was left messed up after an energy healing (Kundalini Activation Process, KAP) session and i've spent the past 2 years piecing my life back together. Irene's work has helped me immensely!
Did you take something?
I've read that even kundalini awakening without taking anything is dangerous because the fire of enlightenment burns and the pain is so intense that we tend to succumb in addictions (food, weed, alcohol,etc).
I don't know how kundalini is awakened, but I hope it won't happen :))
@@hearme4581 Nothing at all.
@@florentina9118 It awakened for my through energy work and the 'event' itself was very pleasurable but afterwards is when things became complicated and painful. I believe the energy will awaken on it's own when it is ready, but my body wasn't prepared for what happened during that energy session.
@@jenbutler4588 oh wow
I felt similarly when I went to a Vipassana retreat....
I felt scared and unsafe and had some hallucinations once I returned home.
I felt more depressed than I had for years...
I have no desire to return.
I have thought Vipassana would be about silence and disconnection to technology, and I do it on my own, at home or in nature. Then it is very calming for me… aren’t mass practices a bit polluted with strangers’ energy? Wish you all the best, sea and nature works the best for me.
@@itr6540 As I was thinking about all these spiritual practices done in groups: Not everyones aura can handle this energetic closeness for so much time (I heard of a Vipassana retreat in a large group that is 10 days, someone told me enthousiastically I should totally do it)
Maybe being a Projector in human design or just a cptsd plus psych med withdrawal hypersensitive nervous system/hpa axis / nervus vagus, I am sure that if ayahuasca ever calls me I better not go to Costa Rica and have sessions with a collective of hundreds of people in one big venue, but have a one on one session with a very ethical shaman.
@@evadebruijn Sinds i know that iam a projector in HD things falls in place.
I never read or heard of a Vipassana retreat using hallucinogens for meditation.
@@loes1655 what do you mean by that?
My takeaways from this video:
-Psychedelic experiences are not inherently healing experiences.
-Setting and context are a MASSIVE factor in the potential for psychedelics to heal or cause harm.
-If you are a person searching for healing, you should not put your mental health in the hands of someone who does not understand trauma, or at least have some background in psychology. This person must also be trustworthy in that they will LISTEN if you express a lack of openness to ANY experience, not force you deeper into it.
- consent is critical, especially in an altered mind-state.
It’s good to bring awareness to the potentially negative outcomes of entheogens, however this experience strikes me as a cautionary tale of someone who did not take the necessary precautions. This is not to say they are to blame for their experience, however, as an anecdote to inform others I believe it’s unfair to use this story as a basis for condemnation of psychedelics or a reason for anyone to write-off psychedelics as a way to healing. They are a useful tool for many.
It’s critical to also do the work, be on an intentional path of healing, and only use entheogenic substances as a way to open the mind to deeper healing. Plants can’t be assumed to do the work for you. I have had a profound shift in my consciousness, trust, quality of life, fulfillment and engagement with experiences since a single, mild dose of psilocybin. I’m continuing to do the work, and grateful that nature has provided substances than have the capacity to help us, when used respectfully, correctly and mindfully.
Psilocybin has changed the direction of my life on 2 different occasions very positively. Kambo as well. But each I did with full knowledge and intention of what I was doing. Kambo was led by trained shamans who took excellent care of me. The psilocybin I did with trusted friends. Each time I did these I prepared months or weeks in advance and did a lot of inner work leading up to them.
I've had a horrible trip on acid before that would have left me traumatized if I hadn't known how to do shadow work and basically talk myself out of it and process psychosis while in the trip. It was terrifying. I had disrespected the drug and tried to take it as a party substance and it kicked my ass. It was scary. I feel lucky that I have the background in personal healing I do or else I think that trip would have been extremely traumatizing. I was fighting for my sanity with my own demons for 18 hours. It was awful.
I learned about the very real dangers in taking powerful medicines without care from that trip. I'll never do it again. People who do these things for fun or as a party drug or without prep or good people around them are disrespecting their purpose and playing with fire, possibly demons as well. Not in the religious sense necessarily, but our own inner ones we aren't ready for.
Correct. Theres tow factors that play into these experince, one the ones you said, any very difficulat experinces and i wont call them bad trips any more as my work with medicines clearly shows you there is no such thing as bad, any difficult are usually from being in werid not optimal situations when working with medicines or not respecting the,. 2. even if you were in the best experince when you work with these medicines you are opening yourself to something much higher and differnt than out natural logic, having a very hard year or two after is now part of the process that divinity and your higheset self has for you as killing your broken self is its goal, and it will literally kill you if you are not willing to surrender. I am personally coming out a the hardest two years of my life while working with medinines but whats happening underneath is literally miraculous and impossible for any other system to do. There is healing that is idescribable. This guy found nervous system work after his was pushed to the edge. the medicine didnt do it, it revealed it. Without it he would not be learning to regulate a system that was unregulated and hiding before. If your not willing to die to yourself and everything you thought was important you should not work with medicines that are supernatural. when you do be willing to pushed to the edge of reality. Im speaking from experience and i woule never go back. my work lead me to Irene
I agree with you. Beautifully expressed.
Well said. I'm currently seeking out a possible psilocybin experience to help me with a chronic condition/pain. I feel it's what I need to fully access my subconscious beliefs about myself and my body.
We can't stare at the Sun more than a few seconds without damaging our eyes. I think that's a good analogy about how our environment is not always hospitable. The sun sustains our lives, but we can't take it all in with abandon. We have learned that for example our skin can withstand direct sunlight much longer than our eyes. And people with darker skins can tolerate much more sun than people with fairer complexion. Things like that are common sense in our society. We know that everything that comes from the Earth or the Sun is not automatically good for us. Still, in certain circles it's quite common to take shortcuts and make incoherent assumptions that disregard common sense and can lead to unfortunate outcomes. Thank your for this very enlightening interview!
I wouldn't personally mess with this....
Do old school therapy.... No psychedelic drugs.
From what I understand too is that Ayuhasca has its roots in Indiginous cultures and I have found that when a lot of those things are taken out of context out of the original culture and become popularized people don’t have the context grounding and connection discern or utilize it as it was meant to be used. Which then often times has negative ramifications from the cultures who originated the practices as well because they get demonized, or their materials over harvested etc. the fact that a lot of us in this culture are not grounded with the earth with the land (because we have not reckoned with the historic trauma that has been settler colonization) to really be messing with some of these traditions that come from and of the earth. Sometimes it’s a f around and find out kind of thing. But I do wanna mention that, there is the cultural context to it as well. And the fact that, Indiginous knowledge, ways of being and healing, in which some of these plant medicines have the potential to be safe in a lot of cases have either been lost or are struggling to persevere. And when we consider that oppression in and of itself is a systematic trauma, there’s a lot to consider how we talk about and understand it.
This was so helpful to me. ❤️ Thank you both
Thank you 🙏🏽 this has been insightful and the deterrent that I needed.
Don't do it
I can't find a source anywhere for any good psychedelics in my area, I suffer some pretty bad depression and i got a chance to try K and man it was a miracle substance, I felt free,the only high or euphoria was from the relief of my vices being released, that's exactly what it did
The psychedelic experience is temporary but many people have permanent results
Mushroom completely turned my life around and my anxiety and panic attack disappeared and my personality changed into a much more generous loving person
I got mine from @doctor_mckenzie
I had 3.5 grams dried lemon tek most beautiful experience ever!!
@@lauramaria2212 Is he on on Instagram or what?
I sat for 3 nights back at the end of September / early October.
Most of my 33 years I have been in addiction and dissociation. Hiding from life. Scared of life.
The first night with ayahuasca was the most harrowing and excruciating experience I could have imagined.
The third night I saw a vision of my inner child shriveled up and traumatized in the corner, terrified of life, telling me "I dont know how to exist in this world."
This was in Hawaii.
I ended up moving back to live with my parents in Chicago, as I felt so ungrounded and unsafe.
The last three months I've mostly been navigating suicidal ideation and despair and depression.
Feeling incapable and like my nervous system is completely broken. Like I can't stay in my body for more than a few minutes at a time.
All of this feels like it was already present and ayahuasca showed me the truth.
I haven't been able to work or do much of anything other than go for walks and talk on the phone with friends, as well as seeing a therapist.
I'm scared and lonely and holding on to hope that over time and with gentleness and devotion I can heal my system.
Thank you for sharing this information.
Hi Kai. Seth here with Team Lyon. I'm sorry things have been so tough lately! It does sound like that Ayahuasca ceremony may have unpacked more than your system was ready for, which is unfortunately very common. Have you explored this work at all? Irene doesn't just make informational videos, she's also created multiple online offerings for actually doing the work and getting better at the nervous system level. Could be worth checking out! This page is a good place to start... irenelyon.com/new-here/
Also, this practice may be especially useful for you right now, and will give you a free sample of how Irene teaches people how to do the work... irenelyon.com/4-steps-to-calm-overwhelm/
Are you feeling any better?
I send you so much love and empathy . I do know you will heal. I'm not sure if this is helpful because I've never been in your shoes , but what I do know that struggling from trauma and abuse . Cold water therapy has changed my life . I hope that is something you will consider
@@soprotivleniye7620 Hey, thank you for asking.
I am. I am learning I CAN handle intense emotions. I am learning that my life is my life and no one else is responsible.
The deeply woundede inner child was running from responsbility, and the more I learn to dance and let him play, the more I realize I am not trapped here with no money and no hope.
@@Eileenfarrell222 Thank you, Eileen.
It has been harrowing, but I do believe this. It's a deep dark pit but I have faith!!!
facing my deepest darkest areas has been terrifying but i know with focus and courage i will get through this.
cold water therapy seems important for me to build capacity to stay present with intense sensations.
what I've been doing now is a little dance, breathwork and qigong.
how do you utilize cold water therapy? would love to hear about your journey with it.
Yes completely agree thanks for sharing this x
These are the kind of videos that SHOULD be recommended and promoted not the pro- drugs ones.
It is important to approach plant medicines and other traditional healing practices with caution and respect. While many people have had positive experiences with these substances, they can also be powerful and potentially dangerous if not used correctly. It is important to thoroughly research any plant medicine or traditional healing practice before trying it, and to seek guidance from knowledgeable and experienced practitioners. It is also important to be aware of the potential risks and to take appropriate precautions to ensure safety. Additionally, it is important to listen to the experiences of others and to be aware of the potential negative effects that these substances can have.
I had experienced the deepest fear and the snakes crawling under my skin also. I did follow all the protocols preparing for the sessions. It has effected me since and had hypnotherapy to deal with fear of closed spaces like flying, elevators etc. This happened on the 3rd ceremony out of 4. The 4th I was scared to take and made myself sick after drinking it. I am still working with a therapist and fear. I think my fear/terror came from childhood abandonment trauma being put into a childrens home. Been doing intense inner child reparenting and shadow work around being worthy. I practice daily yoga, don't drink and don't take any substances. This fear has effected a romantic connection. My therapist suggested I might have BPD but apart from the fear of abandonment I do not have any symtoms. Mind my romantic partner twice betrayed me before and after me doing the ceremonies to make sense of the connection. After it I started seeing material on NPD and he fits the bill. Three years on I'm still not out of the woods. I no longer question why I've had to go through this but celebrate how far I have come. No longer afraid of elevators and flew twice. Have no more night terrors and feel much safer in my body and living alone. I also do cold water therapy almost daily in the sea which helps me feel safe in my body.
Oh wow I had such a similar experience! After the ceremony now for 3 years and I’ve had intense fears as well…enclosed spaces (the shower even) I couldn’t even exercise because once my heart rate got up it would actually send me into a panic attack 🙄 I wish I could meet ppl like you irl…I was adopted and have deep abandonment issues as well…and I won’t say my life was great before aya but it has been AWFUL since! I’ve lost my husband and friends and some family! And my home..job…all spiraling from not understanding what was going on with me! Because this cult like following of the aya community always will blame you for the experience! Or claim you “didn’t integrate” or “aya gives you what you need not want” “it’s a tough teacher” “you weren’t ready” etc etc I’ve heard all the spiritual bs! That is essentially just well disguised gaslighting…anyway I’m so glad to have found this video!
@@marisacognetta4985 💗
- you “didn’t integrate” --> others did, so it must be you
- “aya gives you what you need not want” ---> why? and if it is so, why you did tell me the opposite before or you left all unsaid?
- “it’s a tough teacher” ---> eww, not her fault, she's a Mother. Thank you, I already had one.
- “you weren’t ready” --- and you didn't even know! Your fault again.
Yes, total gaslighting and total spiritual big BS.
Notice how these statements are briefly spit out of mouth and no more explication given in the same exact form in many different contexts, regardless of a the drug/practice used.
The more dangerous the more BS they need.
I had a very traumatic childhood and used meditation as the gentlest, slowest form of therapy. With deep meditation, which not only deeply healed me but also revealed a ton of information about who I am and everything else in life. Liberation is the state of being after you truly understand who you are and realize that you are not your physical body.
Bravo, you two! So good!
Such an important message! I had done so much emotional healing work, trauma therapy with a somatic therapist, many experiences of deep dives. And so I truly thought my experience with mushrooms would be one of expansion, enlightenment and joy…as that’s how it was spun for me. I was hesitant for Ayahuasca because I’d heard about psychic breaks, and often had very difficult experiences with marijuana. So I wish I’d paid attention to this red flag message my body was giving me. My mushroom journey was deep, dark and filled with every bit of grief, betrayal, fear, abuse and trauma that my scared inner child had spent a lifetime avoiding. It was terrifying and while others felt expansive, joyful and spiritual… my experience felt like the depths of darkness and death. It’s been a year and a half, and now I know so much better. Even a float tank, in utter soundlessness and darkness catapulted me into full on anxiety and panic. The entire time I had to speak to my scared inner child, reassure her… it’s no wonder she doesn’t trust me. I want to learn so much more about this, and plan to join your program soon!
So how did you heal after
My question exactly, how did you heal or how do you plan on facing the parts of yourself that you are avoiding at your personal pace? Therapy or solo work with(out) drugs/psychedelics or?
@@SA-px3ln it messed with me, but didn’t fully destroy me like they described in the episode. But it did reveal some hidden and trapped emotions, so I worked with my somatic therapist and also a technique called Emotion Code and Body Code to release and clear those trapped emotions in a gentler less traumatizing way.
@@Eleventyeleventh I had already been doing some deep shadow work, and working with a somatic therapist. I began incorporating deeper techniques such as Body Code and Emotion Code, Ho’oponopono, etc. in the end, the mushrooms were a blessing because they revealed some deep deep traumas I wasn’t aware of and was able to address them but at a slower, less traumatic pace.
Listen to Tim Ferris big episode about his experience that brought back memories of his abuse. Haven’t done it myself but your experience sounds like his.
30 plus ceremonies and many were really tough. The aftermath was tough. It hasn’t fixed things for me. But my life is much fuller. Helped me grow up and become more accountability
So are you still dysfunctional?
Thank you for this honest feedback and saving me from a horrible experience. I have a very sensitive nervous system. I know I will have your same symptoms to Ayahausca medicine, probably worse. It’s not for everyone. There are so many more ways to heal than taking mystery drugs that we know very little about.
My nervous system was very disturbed for at least one month after doing the journey, I was told that my chronic illness will be gone from this journey but actually it got much worse. But mushrooms were much better for me than ayahuasca --- my body rejected aya completely, and it felt that it was very very wrong for me..... there seemed to be something very dark in this medicine which I cannot put in words. But as a highly sensitive empath and a light worker I can say that it's not the best medicine for every person as people tend to believe. I also know someone who committed suicide after that and also someone who became schizophrenic after that. So people need to be careful. Thank you for this video. 🌷🌟🌷
What a beautifully valuable conversation on this topic. I think we need to be well informed about our physiology at all times. When we embark on the path of healing and self-development there are more dangers lurking than just plant medicines. For example, I am also thinking of spirtual narcissism. Or the many therapists who call themselves ´embodied´ and yet cannot guarantee a safe setting because they themselves are not yet sufficiently regulated. There are many pitfalls in the healing world. Too bad. That is why learning about the nervous system is so important. Learning the basics yourself at and knowing exactly what is needed. It was the best investment ever for me.
Yes, I agree! I worked with a self-styled "shaman" for several years who had no trauma awareness. There was no plant medicine involved. I did all of the practices faithfully and fully and was eventually, toward the end when I was on my way out, bullied for not doing things well enough or the right way and I was in the very innermost circle! I learned a lot about one specific kind of spiritual healing and practice (that has no impact on NS regulation), enough to stay and hope that if I worked hard enough and kept at it, I would heal what I had been wanting to heal for decades. Instead, as I look back, it was intense spiritual abuse. I left the group in pieces and have gradually put myself back together mostly thanks to nervous system work and other kind people along the way. Beware of ANYBODY who calls themself a Shaman (or a Master of any kind for that matter). Most likely, there's a deep well of unaddressed shadow along with half-baked techniques. The ones who are the true healers are humble and not making a fuss about how amazing they are.
Yes sounds like a kundalini awakening. Its intense and brings all the shadow stuff up, that one have not faced yet.
@TZ totally.
All of the shadow stuff. In Brazil they call it "trabalho" (work). It is definitely that
thank you both
I've been drinking Ayahuasca for 22 years with the Santo Daime church. For sure it's a strong medicine, originally, just for shamans or those going through spiritual trials to be healers. As you can see from other comments, Spiritual awakening can be triggered by meditation, yoga and spontaneously, not just with medicines, and that while it is true that most medicine facilitators don't know how to manage spiritual/kundalini awakening, neither do doctors or most therapists...this is a broad subject.
I mean all I am really getting from this is that people have no idea what they are getting into and that is very dangerous, plus it is absolutely not for everyone. Aya is not a quick fix the integration period that follows is hard because you have to deal with everything that is brough up. Plus now this is turning into a mass tourism thing and you have to be careful where you go and who you trust. No, the curanderos can't support you enough because they live in a comunity where this is a part of their life and they see and experience life completely differently that we in the "civilised" western world do, where we created a sick society and we are totally disconnected from everything and we need intense therapy before and after and at least some meditation practice before we even think about attending anything like this. A lot of people in the comments saying how hard it was for years but now they feel better. That is exactly what working on yourself feels like. It's painful and unpleasant. When you mix in something that makes the work 100x more intense and faster and you do it without support of an integration therapists, to me that is insanity. I can empathise, I understand how hard it is, I have gone thorough it myself and although I was prepared my life fell apart but I also was able to process trauma I truly don't think I could have otherwise. I am glad this video was posted, I hope people think twice about what they are doing and that it takes hard work and a lot of time and support to process and heal.
In ayahuasca the death trap is rejection. The entity in his experience that he related to as threat was to be his teaching but it was rejected in favor of salvation. The teaching, however, repeatedly pushed it self forward and was repeatedly rejected. Is there really any surprise here? The plant can tap into amazing intelligence if you are open to it.
victim blaming
You didn’t need anything outside yourself Juan! You were on the path already unfortunately the people you were interacting with at the moment made you doubt yourself. The image of you reaching the “good side” and it flipped to the “bad side” was telling you to not look outside of yourself and understand how the feminine and masculine energies complement each other to see the bigger picture. You are the center and the fountain of your whole being.
Gracias por compartir, Juan Pablo. Bendiciones! Agradezco por la desprotección.
Hola! Aqui Juan Pablo. Gracias por acercarte. Bendiciones de regreso!
Great video, very important to be prepared before ceremony like how to utilize somatic self inquiry
I’ve been sharing in my spaces how shamans and shamanism is not trauma informed so finding a shaman who is trauma informed is like a unicorn.
When working with a shaman also make sure you have an integration team or are resourced outside of the shaman who isn’t trauma informed.
Thank you for recovering and spreading this information on the importance of trauma and specifically shamanism NOT being trauma informed. In fact, shamanic initiations are traumatizing in of themselves and require immense specialization to undo the trauma associated with the gifts given through the initiation.
Even elder shamans have their traumas passed down although very wise, they can still be a wounded healer and miss the opportunity of refinement/mastery to be a bonafide healer.
Hello. Juan Pablo here. Thank you for you comment. I'd like to have a chat with you. What you are sharing here makes a lot of sense!
What a thoughtful comment! I read it carefully and I agree.
Trauma is universal to human beings, but there could be different ways of processing (or not processing) them according to local cultural patterns.
The Western mindset is a naif one. It's all about refusing the system and dive into anything foreign because "they know better".
If they knew better they would be better off.
Shamans traditionally accept to be traumatized as part of their education.
I guess the way they accept it it's not what another person is looking for.
Shamans can work as broken doctors or wounded healers.
Now it's all about Ayahuasca to "open up". Once it was LSD.
Prescribed drugs are not much different.
The opening up is a hard-to-break myth in many healing fields, included psychoanalysis.
For some reasons there is a belief that uncovering the lid of the vase will automatically cure your traumas because now you can see them.
It's almost never the case without a solid integration and professional help.
Functional freeze is called functional for a reason.
We have a saying/ wisdom in Hinduism which goes "Too much Amrit / Manna is also poison". Which tells you Greed never helps the body. I am seeing many people who get access to these drugs become , irresponsible and greedy and overdo it because they think "Too much of a good thing cant be bad right?".
I'm really glad this was shared thank you, I have been deeply considering this sacred plant but also have done a lot of research... This makes me 2nd think it I know I'd want to do it in a sacred session with people who are nurturing. I also have tried other psychedelics, I have had very very good experiences with mdma and microdosing with 🍄. Still on this journey to say the least good luck to all and trust your gut before doing anything out of your comfort zone that can be life-changing but also traumatic all the best 🙏🕉💓
I had a traumatic experience with Ayahuasca too and it took me 3 years to heal. It has been a crazy journey.
Are you better now then you were before ayahuasca or did it serve no other purpose than to negatively impact you? I’m very curious.
How did you heal? Please help if possible as I’m suffering terribly
Hi. Juan Pablo here. I actually remember you. You gave me some useful thoughts when i was going thru this experience. Thanks for having the guts to share your experience. It is not easy to show this side of things.
@@Mia15239 what happend to you
@@Mia15239 Tell us more.
This experience, within the ceremony, sounds normal to me because from my experience Ayahuasca is not a gentle teacher. I was honestly expecting something else not what he described. Although I wasnt aware of after effects, hallucinations, etc. Ayahuasca can be very scary, very lonely. Also beautiful. And when you're in it you have to face and deal with the darkness if thats what comes, theres literally nothing you can do but surrender and thats whats scary, which in itself is a lesson is that we are not in control, control is merely an illusion.
Can you please talk about the highlights of your experience. Also the control part. How come control is an illusion and why should we surrender?
Does the drug open you up to your own personal hell for you to learn, and heal through?
@@krystalizedmagic4894 with 3 ceremonies done, can't say exactly why control is an illusion, but from what I experienced, I tried to maintain control and it felt like hell. After being exhausted by the immense amount of suffering, I gave up the control. That was the moment everything started to calm down and was felling amazing, like all of my problems were gone. I wasn't desiring anything, yet having everything
Sounds terrifying, it sounds like my experience with pre verbal ptsd and going through emdr to heal it. I can’t even imagine going through this for two years!
How do you know that you have preverbal ptsd? I mean how did you become aware of it?
@@kontesica EMDR- the same images (visual memories)and body sensations and emotions kept coming up in EMDR and I had flashbacks and strange implicit memories (body memories where I would wake up throughout the night when stressed in the position of the action I was trying to complete in the trauma ) as an adult but I had no memory of the ptsd events as an adult which is common for children with ptsd . I highly recommend EMDR, your body and your subconscious never forgets but it needs a tool like EMDR to tell it’s story and heal😊
@@nolankylie ok, thank you!
@@nolankylie I've really Wanted to try, trying to find the right therapist is difficult
@@kiriavatar123 you could try EMDRIA website? I hope you find one soon 😊
Intense conversation - I started it the other day and realized I wasn’t ready to absorb it yet. Something about what is real and the feeling of not completely knowing what is real - but that could be the feeling of expansion.
Entheogens are intelligent teachers here to assist us to heal the root of our suffering on our planet. It is up to us to take radical responsibility for how we approach these teachers. Set and setting are crucial. I feel tremendous compassion for his suffering AND I also think that this path was his to walk so I see his hero's journey rather than is being a bad thing that happened 'to him'. If we 'consume' these plants or approach them to 'fix' us then we will get tough lessons. It is another aspect of us colonising our planet and that being internalised as dominance over our body and our healing instead of being in relationship with our body, our healing and our planet. If we approach them with reverence, understanding, self preparation and practice - they can assist us immeasurably and can change our world.
Thanks for confirming what I was feeling. I recently had a client come for a past life regression, after having an “accident“, to work through some stuff. After arriving, I discovered client’s accident was a serious seizure that resulted in four skull fractures. It was later revealed that The client has done at least 40 Ayahuasca doses, and only two were with a shaman.🤦♀️
I had a strong sense there’s neuroses and perhaps schizophrenia going on. After listening to this video I now have no doubt. Truly sad!😢
I hear what you are saying. But, it's like anything. The client had an unbelievable amount of nonchalance toward a super powerful medicine. Would you drink 40 cups of coffee in one hour? Would you eat 60 pounds of meat in a day? I would never dream of not doing it without a reputed Shaman. And, it's not something you do 40 times unless you are a Shaman.
My nervous system has always been a mess. I never felt any pull towards "plant medicine", nor for any kinda drugs. Good for me.... Im quite sure these meds would had been a very bad idea for me. I ve studied some energy healing, and many healers say these meds tend to mess up the energy systems as well.
This happened to me as well. Four months ago. Taking one day at a time. Watch out, don't go unprepared.
Can you give more details please?
@@soprotivleniye7620 I went to a retreat with Ayahuasca. It was three nights. After this I went into a period of intense fear. I was stuck in freeze mode for several weeks. There was no real support offered from the organization that arranged the retreat. No preparations were needed.
I guess many repressed emotions came to the surface and it was just too much for the nervous system to handle.
Ayahuasca is a powerful plant. I don't think it's wise to take it without proper preparations. It's not a quick fix that will heal you from all your pain.
@@perhagman6112 I know exactly what you mean. I have been struggling for 8 years now. But I had 13 bad trips, so maybe you will recover sooner.
@@perhagman6112Did you try any other plant medicine before trying Ayahausca?
@@debervin9121 No. Ayahuasca was my first plant medicine. They also offered Kambo, Bufo Alvarius and San Pedro at the same retreat. It was a cocktail of sorts.
I had a similar experience with mushrooms years ago. It put me in a state of PTSD and I'm still recovering. That was 17 yrs ago. It can be very dangerous.
What do you do to recover? Please advise.
When you had your traumatic experience, where you following the rules of set and setting? It's always informative to hear details about the situation, because often the environment or mental state the person were heavily involved in creating the experience.. When I've had difficult experiences, it was usually because I was being incautious, not in the right head space.
I've also talked to people who had a bad time and are confused as to why. Usually it starts like this: "So, I had just had a bad breakup earlier in the day and my car was being repossessed. I smoked a big fat joint and then ate a big unweighed dose of mushrooms. I can't understand why I had a bad time.
I'm not implying that's what you did, but it's so informative to know the preconditions of the trip.
@@MisterNiles What you seem to be implying is that only totally happy people without a single worry in the world can take psychedelics. But such people do not exist as far as I know. And if they did exist, they probably would not be interested in taking psychedelics.
@@soprotivleniye7620 Nope. That is not what I'm implying. But the rules of set and setting are important and people often ignore them. If you actually read my post you would have seen this: "It's always informative to hear details about the situation, because often the environment or mental state the person were heavily involved in creating the experience.." and this: " I'm not implying that's what you did, but it's so informative to know the preconditions of the trip."
I've taken psychedelics when my life was very difficult, but even in that difficult state, there are times when you can judge you are in a better state than you have been recently and can do some healing work.
I have no idea how you got such a silly, definitive idea from what I wrote. If you don't want to follow set and setting, that's up to you. Have fun.
@@soprotivleniye7620 the best answer ever!