I purchased the dual core Chef's knife on a sale last week. Will add it to my dual core testbed. It will be a perfect comparison to a Shun dual core chef's knife I have.
Your coverage of the fit and finish is always good but will you do performance testing? Edge retention, food release, chip resistance, ease of sharpening, etc. are things one really needs to know before making a purchase. With your background as a Chef I would think you would be a great source for this kind of data.
Thank you for the feedback, do you have any idea how to test chip resistance on a consistent basis? I do know that the manufacturers do have automated testing with machines so they can get the data on a consistent basis. I as a reviewer who reviews the knives based on my experience and everyday usage of the knife can only judge what I experience from the knives. In the past I experienced very bad heat-treated knives that chipped on the most basic tasks but that I no longer experience in the newer knives and brands (avoiding brands that I already know that are not consistent). Without machines, I can't do any technical analytical data testing since the manufacturers I have spoken to all have their own sharpness testing that is done by a machine with the exact same pressure and sheets of paper. The same with their Rockwell testing and steel structure that are being inspected under a microscope. I want to make the reviews easy to understand without being too technical so that only the ones who can follow the review are knife enthusiasts, I want them to be easier to understand for non-knife enthusiasts. But I do want to incorporate new/improved ideas If I can replicate them on a constant basis (in the end what matters is how it performs on food, not on a rope/paper/towel). The current review takes approximately 2/4 weeks per knife of testing including resharpening the cutting-edge cooking of my regular go-to dishes from salads, fruits, fish, sushi, etc. The knives shown in this video for example are not being reviewed yet as they were first impressions. But at the current schedule, the earliest for the full review to be completed would be in 2024. Since I'm currently finishing 15+ other reviews that were planned for this year. My older fairly new reviews include sections of food release, a brief mention of durability (not in-depth), ease of sharpening also a brief mention as those are included in my testing period. But things such as chip resistance are something that would be hard to replicate (as with many knives when you go straight towards a harder source most of them will be fine without any damage to the edge, but when you add an angle or hit it wrong at an angle, a lot of higher Rockwell knives will chip, especially in a twisting motion the knives will chip. But that comes down to user error for that specific knife and therefore they should buy a knife with a lower Rockwell and a thicker blade). So very curious if you have any suggestions for testing the chip resistance on a consistent basis without including user errors.
@@chefpanko To check for hardness on 60HRC blades I scratch a knife with a target of 57HRC. It should be easy to scratch with the inferior corner. Not an ideal test but it will detect major flaws. To check for microchips you can do very very light taps on the corner of a tuna can. Since surface contact is little the impact is much higher than anything that would happen on a cutting board. This is a tip from a friend of mine but In practice I just use the blade and see how long the edge will last and how it will age, by rolling or chipping. Takes more time but result will be more accurate. Problem is that it takes a very long time until the edge wears naturally. To check for cutting geometry the best tests I have are onion Brunoise and potato slice. Most Chinese knives fail onion Brunoise and don't have a smooth cutting performance without impact. There are a few exceptions but not many. These new Xinzuo knives seem thin enough to pass it, I'm curious to see your results. Potato creates resistance because of capillarity adhesion so it evaluate different things. A knife that is good for onion may fail on potato.
Very nice first impressions, I am really looking forward to seeing your review of the 110 layer Chef knife. I just received the Xinzuo 110 layer Santoku and am very impressed with the overall design and the cutting performance. The next best knifes I have are a brand new Xinzuo chef knife with Chinese VG10 and a Japanese 440C Nakiri with a similarly thin profile. The 110 layer Santoku glides through vegetables considerably easier than both of them. Very nice!
Hope to get them done this year but would probably be at the beginning of 2024. (currently working on the other series that I had gotten before this one). Thank you for sharing your experience I appreciate it! Always good to know what others think besides my own testing. Glad you like the knives, I will keep pushing Xinzuo/Hezhen to improve on future series. My current feedback is that they need more lighter knives and series with less of a big handle (the newer series are more on the large side where I heard mixed feedback from those with medium and small hand sizes but the large and extra large hand size crowds were more positive).
Wich knife do you want measurements of? I will add a brief segment talking about it in the full review. Most of the reviews are finished and filming already done needs to be edited at the moment.
3 stunners, I actually feel really bad for Japanese knife manufacturers. They already are extremely aggressive on knife pricing considering the cost of doing business there, their knife smiths are criminally underpaid. Meanwhile China has a lower cost of business and countless thousands of expert smiths in Longquan and other cities. Which give them a massive extremely experienced and adaptable labour pool for their knife industry.
They have been advancing so fast lately, but they were stationary for a few years while I was buying the Chinese-made knife to test where it was basically 2 categories. Just ok (has all the basics nothing extraordinary to point out but was happy to find a knife that was decent) and they had very badly made knives. But then there is a sudden shift from currently one brand in particular Xinzuo/Hezhen. And they are adding things I have not seen any other manufacturers do yet in terms of blade grind etc. I will have to wait and see how the knife market adapts to it, Other manufacturers always had an advantage in terms of Quality control and better heat treatment but that gap has been closing very fast including steel types from China compared to the imported Japanese steel or western steel.
From a home cook Western perspective, the Aus 10 will be the most preferred--and not for price alone. The pebble texture will do the best to minimize sticky vegetables, and the ergonomic handle is not so controlling. Ken Onion designed a very controlling ergonomic Shun Kaji that was perfect for a few--but a disaster for everyone else. The redesigned Kaji backed off considerably. The belly on the 110 layer with the great damascus pattern and super ergonomic handle contrasts sharply with the far more conservative Shun dual core profiles. The copper damascus with the kiritsuke tip and the Zhen handle should be a smashing success with everyone--even tempting the home cook enthusiast.
A full review of these 3 will take a while, so I can't comment on the pebble's texture yet (I had a hard time getting the English word for it in the video I had the image of pavements/stone and cobblestones in my head but the English word for it did not want to pop up in my head so I called it ''stone-like'' pattern haha). I do think it should be similar to a hammered pattern but have to test it out before I can give my opinion on it.
@@drrayeye very interesting I could find one in the pictures it does not look like they are protruding out that much but I can see the similarities. What do you think of it? They do cover the entire blade compared to this one where they only cover the top part.
You might as well just call the brand "Shinzaku" at this point! haha That copper Damascus is breathtaking... I have never seen anything like it. I wonder how they sealed the copper from further oxidation though...
hahaha was it that bad I thought I had improved!! 😅I was told who they worked with for that copper Damascus but I unfortunately can't disclose it since they have not published it themself. I will keep the question in mind once the review for it has been finalized so that I can ask them about it.
These don't look too bad, the copper pattern on that kiritsuke is a little overdone, though. Since you mention the weight, it would have been nice if you had put the knives on to a kitchen scale to show the specific weight of each.
Thank you for the feedback :) I will do it in a full review after I have tested them properly as this video is intended as a raw reaction (first impression) after unboxing without any tools so I have to observe as I unbox and base everything on touch, feel, and sight. It will take a while to test one knife approximately 2/4 weeks to get my final thoughts on them (and I have 15+ other knives that need to be reviewed before I can upload one of the 3 in this video). Hopefully, I can get everything done on a weekly schedule. Currently working on 2 Lan Series Santoku knice. (Testing done but just need to edit it for next week's upload).
Hello chief! I want to buy a good knife. You have already tried them in action, but you have not released the video, which I have been waiting for a long time. Discounts on Ali will end soon Can you briefly tell me which one is better to take so that you don't regret it? Tricolor is much worse than the same, but with zdp 189? 110 layered damascus is thin, but is it durable? With a pebble on the knife, it looks very heavy and thick.
In terms of comfort, the Tri-color is almost the same as the ZDP-189 version since it shares pretty much the same profile, and thicker ground on the blade overall. 110 Layers Damascus is indeed thin with all 3 knives with regular use so no bones, frozen food, etc. It should be durable for most kitchen tasks. Pebbel knife is overall on the thickest side compared to the other 2 making it more durable, when we talk about the design perspective of the blade thickness. The thicker the knife the more durable or ductile it will be. But the thicker the knife you will lose some of the smooth cutting feel. With all 3 you can't go wrong in terms of comfort. So the question would be what knife will suit you the best in your cutting style or primary cutting motion. If you like a straighter blade profile the Tri-color has the best profile for up and down motions whereas the other 2 are better for a rocking motion. It is not really about what knife steel will outperform the other but I would rather look at what knife will suit your cutting style the best. Weight wise all 2 were pretty much similar. All 3 good knives but what knife suits you the best depends on your primary cutting motion and use case. For me, I use the up-and-down motion more so I prefer a blade with a straighter profile. I don't need the thinner knife for my regular day-to-day cooking. All 3 handles were good for my hand size. So my option of the 3 would be the Tri-color one not because of the steel or design but purely based on my cutting preference and use case.
@@chefpanko Thank you, Chief. So it turns out that if I want to take it with a straight blade, too, like you, I won't need to overpay, can I take it cheaper? That is, a knife with a tricolor damascus does not give any advantages over the same one but with 10cr13 steel (vg 10)?
@@blagor07 You can also look at the Santoku version. Those knives are shorter but work great too for most home use scenarios and come with a pretty straight blade profile. 10cr is fine too the ones I like with 10cr are from Dongsun, Xinzuo, and Hezhen so far. The Chinese versions are often cheaper due to various reasons. Steel is simply not possible for Chinese manufacturers to order from or import as they don't want their steel to be used by a Chinese manufacturer which forced the Chinese steel manufacturers to come up with their own equivalent versions (which in some cases can have a rough start like with the 10cr from 4 years back).
Hello!! Panko ,lately I have been very interested in the world of knives and their maintenance and your videos and blog content are helping me a lot to understand part of this world (I am hooked on these videos hahaha, keep it up!! I am a beginner and I would like to do A good initial investment but I have many doubts due to my inexperience. The metal used in these knives, the equivalent of the Japanese VG10, 10Cr15moV and 9Cr18MoV, are they recommended? I am looking for a chef's knife, which would be the most recommended between the two options in the video The first knife (cross pattern) or the copper one? And is there any other knife (chef or peeler) from this brand or another, that is reasonably affordable in terms of quality and price that does not cost more than €160 like a whustoff ikon classic? Greetings and support to the channel, I hope for more quality content about knives and thanks in advance!!
With all steel types, it all depends on the final heat treatment from the manufacturer/brand as to whether the steel will perform as advertised. Therefore I can only recommend knives that I have personally tested. But in general ''made in Japan'' is the most consistent in quality control and heat treatment. Just be careful with the scams and bait and switch where they advertise things or word certain things in making it look like it is a Japanese ''made'' knife. (many times it is made in China). Made-in-China knives are not bad, the problem is the sea of brands and misleading sales pages. Therefore a lot of brands I can't recommend anymore besides the select few like Xinzuo/Hezhen (same manufacturer). Dongsun knives are good too with their AUS10/Chinese VG10. For many other brands, I had mixed results. Now looking beyond the actual core material everything else is also important the blade style, profile, taper, etc. As a matter of fact, I actually look at the knife style/comfort/anatomy first before looking at all the other technical specs where the core steel is the last thing I evaluate. So yes, I do recommend the 10Cr15CoMoV and 9Cr18MoV from brands like Xinzuo/Hezhen their 10Cr and Dongsun both were consistent in what they promised. (but for the knife style and series it is another thing to evaluate). As for 9Cr the brand Dengjia does a good job with that steel along with Xinzuo/Hezhen. As for the knife you are mentioning, all knives in this video have not been fully tested as to why this is just a first impression so I can't say much beyond what is said in the video. (as explained above before I can recommend something I have to test them fully). So my first question would be why a Chef's knife? Why was that your first choice among all the other knife styles? I do think that many automatically go for Chef's knife due to it being exposed everywhere on videos online and TV shows. But that does not necessarily mean that that is the best knife style for your purpose. Other knife styles while not popular might be the better option for your specific cutting task. So what is your primary cutting motion? Rocking on the cutting board or lifting the knife up with an up and forward down motion? What do you plan to prep with? Those are the first simple questions so that I can guide you to a knife style that might be more suitable for your cutting style. I have not seen any peelers from Xiznuo/Hezhen, but I would focus on which style of knife will suit your cutting style the best before looking at everything else. As with a Chef's knife, you have multiple brands that do the profile differently some profile works for other and some don't. More rounder belly profile or a more straight belly profile on a chef's knife? etc. I'm not a fan of a rocking motion so for me I prefer a straighter profile chef's knife like many Japanese branded ones categorized as Gyuto's as they are generally speaking straight (a select few make it more rounder lately on some series). Hope that this helps and if you can tell me your preferred/main cutting style and what you plan to prep then I can guide you in a better direction. (also add your budget, not more than 160 euros there will be a lot even Japanese-made knives I can recommend at that price range).
@@chefpanko Hello again Panko!! Thank you very much for your previous response, it has honestly helped me take into account some things that I was overlooking. To start, I am interested in a chef's knife and a utility/paring knife because I want to have the basic knives for the kitchen and making a good initial investment so that they last a long time. If you have any suggestions on other types of knives, let me know (in the future I'll probably go for a nakiri but that's when I have the main ones) I hope I don't bore you with a little anecdote, but I already have a Santoku from the Mosfiata brand, it was a gift from my partner and the first in my collection, before I used the typical household knives that are not good, and I consider this my first '''good'' knife. Now that I am more immersed in this world, I want to expand my collection with higher quality knives, but the santoku, even though it allows me to do everything, loses its edge very quickly and for some more precision tasks, the curved tip is not the most comfortable. That's why I first thought about a chef's knife that usually has a sharper edge (like the ones in this video, the first knife and the copper one that I really like since the first one looks more Western). At first I looked at a Western one, the whustoff ikon classic, which, despite being a workhorse, I lean more towards the Japanese gyutoh style, straighter knives without so much belly on the blade, to be more specific with the aesthetics. , the kengata style ones (I think it's written like that, the ones with the tip cut off) I understand that Japanese knives are harder and more brittle, and this makes me a little afraid, for example, if crushing garlic could be a problem. Speaking of other issues, I'm looking for a chef/gyutoh knife and a utility/peeler for more delicate jobs. *I also want a Chinese cleaver because of the advantages it offers and its aesthetics. At first I was going for the CCK Cai Dao, but with the logo change and its high price I preferred to go for a cheaper option of which there is a review on this channel (the Shi Ba Zi Zuo slicer) although I am open to suggestions ;) Other information to keep in mind is that I usually use the pinch grip on the ferrule and also on the blade. The weight/balance point of the knife in my preference has to be in the center/bolster, although I don't care if it is on the blade or the handle Regarding the handle, both the Japanese and Western styles seem comfortable to me, and like you, I have a large grip. And my cutting style is varied, I normally use knives for vegetables, boneless meats and occasionally some fish. up and down/chopping (the most frequent), forward/back and down, and sometimes rocking to finely chop some herbs. And the maximum budget for a knife would be about €160, more or less what the copper xinzuo costs. On the subject of brands, in the case of the Japanese ones, just like the Chinese ones, there are so many and I get overwhelmed because I don't know where to choose. Thanks to the content of this channel and the blog, I am opting for xinzuo or henzen and later I will investigate the ones you recommended in the last comment. Thank you very much in advance Panko and greetings from Spain!!
@@anikilador2i Thank you for the added info. You are on a good way and know what you want. In terms of peelers and paring knives nothing fancy. When it comes to peelers most of them will be good enough and they are cheap so if it breaks you can easily replace them. Paring knives just a simple one like the ones from Victorinox I can recommend when on discount you can get them around 3 euro per piece. (paring knives are very versatile you can never have enough). Great for peeling apples, potatoes, etc. A peeler will do fine too but I often use a paring knife. Same with peelers you don't need a fancy peeler of 50 euro. Just around 5 euros will be good (fancy stainless will maybe be like 8 euros). In terms of edge retention a cheap knife will get dull faster but all knives will get dull eventually so investing in a whetstone and honing rod is advised for edge/sharpness maintenance. So not repair or extremely dull maintenance if it is just for sharpness maintenance you can get great results with just a combi stone #1000/2000 of just one stone of #2000 or #3000 grit rating. (I don't advise soaking stones just a good ceramic splash and go goes a long way) . I agree I hate the new logo and personally will not buy a CCK for that reason alone until they revert back and remove the silly QR code. A Shibazi F208 is a good option and a lot more affordable. Now that I know what kind of knife you prefer I can recommend the following styles: - Gyuto's with straighter profiles. - Bunka/Santoku. As for a Nakiri, there is no need for you can go for a tall Nakiri which sits between a Chinese cleaver and a Nakiri. So if you go for a tall Nakiri you can skip the Chinese chef's knife (Cai Dao). So think about a Xinzuo PM8 Tall-Nakiri (A review will follow soon). The First impression can be found on my channel but I have finished testing it. As for the multi-purpose knife that fits in your budget: Hezhen Elegant Series Santoku Knife (With 14Cr14MoVnB) First impression here: ruclips.net/video/c4oUfTxQxoA/видео.htmlsi=R3nCoVLyRJuEQrx_&t=17 (Full review will follow also finished testing) And the copper version in this video, while I did not test that one the ZDP189 version I have tested it, and while the grind on that version is superior to the copper version the price is also 2 times more. It shares the same style and profile so it is a knife that suits your preference. (I can't say much about the core material etc. as I have not reviewed the copper version yet). I have finished testing the ZDP189 version which from the looks is the same blade with some minor adjustments that make the ZDP189 Xinzuo knife one of the best they have made. Japanese knife for 160 euros: Misono Gyuto Swedish Carbon Steel (not stainless). Misono 440 Gyuto Misono profiles are on the straighter side which I personally like. If you can find a webshop that sells the Makoto Kurosaki knives from his first few knife ranges those were a great value at that time. So Makoto Kurosaki with Blacksmith finish was around 160 euros. (but with his improved skills and popularity the knives have been going for around 200+ Euro) Hope that this helps you in the right direction while I like to recommend more Japanese-made knives I realized that the ones I have tried in the past were all around 200+ Euro and now nearing 300+ Euro. So get one multi-purpose knife or multiple cheap paring knives (I can recommend the Victorinox ones they are very stainless so use them throw them in the sink and wash later etc. get multiple so that you can get lazy and grab a new one until the clean ones are all used up then wash them all at once). A peeler does not get something fancy it is a simple product if you buy a branded one it would not cost you more than 5 euros (just don't buy extremely cheap ones from the dollar store and you will, be good). Knife maintenance is more important than the knife so get a good whetstone, like the splash and go ceramic. I highly recommend ceramic ones over-soaking ones. (Don't be fancy the goal is maintaining the sharp edge not repairing so just a simple single grit of #2000 or #2000 is good) if you want to brag online and cut paper by all means invest in as many stones as you want but the reality is just one stone for maintaining edge sharpness is enough. Many will even advise a strop that is not needed. For added convenience when you don't have time to grab a whetstone use a ceramic honing rod (which you can use as an indication to prepare for a whetstone maintenance session). If you do it periodically and on time you can just be done within less than 3 min per knife. A ceramic rod is a few seconds that you use as a touch-up and indication of when to hit the knife edge on a stone. Hope this helps.
Hi Chef, thanks for your video, those knives can surely compete with Japanese ones, but at the end they are priced the same ! So, for the same price, do you by a BMW or a Chinese copy ?
For the same price, I focus on picking what works best for me, no matter where it's made. In the past, Chinese-made knives weren't as good as brands like Shun and Tojiro. They lacked quality and craftsmanship. But now, some Chinese knives are getting really good, maybe even better than Japanese ones. So, I don't just care about where they come from anymore all that matters is the end product and not the country of origin. I'm excited to see this progress because it makes companies try harder and come up with new ideas. Some Western companies need to do the same and not just stick with the old ways. In 2024, I hope to attend a Tradeshow in Germany*, where major brands like Zwilling, Miyabi, Shun, Kai, Wusthof, F-Dick, Victorinox, and more showcase their latest collections (they were there in 2023, not sure if they will attend again in 2024). This will give me the opportunity to witness firsthand how these knives and innovations compare and compete with each other. - *If I manage to get a pass to get in as they are mostly for B2B If a Chinese-made knife outperforms the competition, I'll choose it without hesitation. As a reviewer, I prioritize the end product over brand loyalty. If a Chinese copy is better than the competition, I'll choose it without thinking twice. As a reviewer, I care about the end product more than loyalty to any brand. But if the Chinese copy doesn't meet my standards, I'll go for the BMW. I just want the product that's right for me, without any brand bias. You will see that in my full review, I have some criticism on some of the knives I have gotten from Xinzuo and I hope they will address this in future new series (the 3 in this video has many of my criticism already incorporated in the design hence why I could not see any improvement suggestions at first glance but might have some in the full review which I will give them my constructive feedback on what could have been done better).
You’ve made vague insinuations. Which Japanese premium knives are these copies of specifically? That will help people make price and feature comparisons.
@@l26wang I replied with a general point of view to his comment, but having an exact comparison of what knife brand and type would help in evaluating the knives more thoroughly. But as said before I no longer have to look at where they are made as long as the end product is good (and believe me some are already above my own expectations which will be evaluated in the full review). So I can only give them my feedback on the end product how it performs and why I think some things should have been changed, To my surprise they were very accommodating and have shared my feedback with their design and testing team. Unlike some other brands that try to disregard the feedback and defend their stance, Xinzuo immediately said thank you and agreed with my feedback and he will pass it on to the design/testing team for future reference and releases.
@@l26wang Let's talk about the Xinzuo Zhen Series Chef Knife Copper Damascus (priced arround 200€) vs Kei Kobayashi R2 Special Finished CS 170mm (priced at 210€) !
@@andrephocas8263 You actually got me to take a closer look at the specs of the Zhen Series Chef Knife Copper Damascus. It's 12Cr18mov steel. I actually can't find out much details of this steel. But the overriding feature of this knife is beauty of the copper cladding. R2 is a advanced powdered steel with known superb characteristics. I don't think these are comparable at all. It's looks vs function. The only similarity seems to be the price. Even the blade shape is very different.
I don't know how they stack up to japanese knives but these are expensive knifes really especially the kiritsuke I mean 150 dollar that ain't cheap like you hope for it to be, but they are looking good
I will always disclose how I got the knives either paid by myself given to me for review or a paid sponsorship. I mostly will add it at the beginning of the video through text. In this case, the knives were given to me for free for a review without any NDAs or embargo so I'm free in what I say (wich is one of my terms if they want me to review their products).
I purchased the dual core Chef's knife on a sale last week. Will add it to my dual core testbed. It will be a perfect comparison to a Shun dual core chef's knife I have.
Your coverage of the fit and finish is always good but will you do performance testing? Edge retention, food release, chip resistance, ease of sharpening, etc. are things one really needs to know before making a purchase. With your background as a Chef I would think you would be a great source for this kind of data.
Thank you for the feedback, do you have any idea how to test chip resistance on a consistent basis? I do know that the manufacturers do have automated testing with machines so they can get the data on a consistent basis. I as a reviewer who reviews the knives based on my experience and everyday usage of the knife can only judge what I experience from the knives.
In the past I experienced very bad heat-treated knives that chipped on the most basic tasks but that I no longer experience in the newer knives and brands (avoiding brands that I already know that are not consistent).
Without machines, I can't do any technical analytical data testing since the manufacturers I have spoken to all have their own sharpness testing that is done by a machine with the exact same pressure and sheets of paper. The same with their Rockwell testing and steel structure that are being inspected under a microscope. I want to make the reviews easy to understand without being too technical so that only the ones who can follow the review are knife enthusiasts, I want them to be easier to understand for non-knife enthusiasts. But I do want to incorporate new/improved ideas If I can replicate them on a constant basis (in the end what matters is how it performs on food, not on a rope/paper/towel).
The current review takes approximately 2/4 weeks per knife of testing including resharpening the cutting-edge cooking of my regular go-to dishes from salads, fruits, fish, sushi, etc.
The knives shown in this video for example are not being reviewed yet as they were first impressions. But at the current schedule, the earliest for the full review to be completed would be in 2024. Since I'm currently finishing 15+ other reviews that were planned for this year.
My older fairly new reviews include sections of food release, a brief mention of durability (not in-depth), ease of sharpening also a brief mention as those are included in my testing period. But things such as chip resistance are something that would be hard to replicate (as with many knives when you go straight towards a harder source most of them will be fine without any damage to the edge, but when you add an angle or hit it wrong at an angle, a lot of higher Rockwell knives will chip, especially in a twisting motion the knives will chip. But that comes down to user error for that specific knife and therefore they should buy a knife with a lower Rockwell and a thicker blade).
So very curious if you have any suggestions for testing the chip resistance on a consistent basis without including user errors.
@@chefpanko To check for hardness on 60HRC blades I scratch a knife with a target of 57HRC. It should be easy to scratch with the inferior corner. Not an ideal test but it will detect major flaws.
To check for microchips you can do very very light taps on the corner of a tuna can. Since surface contact is little the impact is much higher than anything that would happen on a cutting board. This is a tip from a friend of mine but In practice I just use the blade and see how long the edge will last and how it will age, by rolling or chipping. Takes more time but result will be more accurate. Problem is that it takes a very long time until the edge wears naturally.
To check for cutting geometry the best tests I have are onion Brunoise and potato slice. Most Chinese knives fail onion Brunoise and don't have a smooth cutting performance without impact. There are a few exceptions but not many. These new Xinzuo knives seem thin enough to pass it, I'm curious to see your results.
Potato creates resistance because of capillarity adhesion so it evaluate different things. A knife that is good for onion may fail on potato.
Very nice first impressions, I am really looking forward to seeing your review of the 110 layer Chef knife. I just received the Xinzuo 110 layer Santoku and am very impressed with the overall design and the cutting performance. The next best knifes I have are a brand new Xinzuo chef knife with Chinese VG10 and a Japanese 440C Nakiri with a similarly thin profile. The 110 layer Santoku glides through vegetables considerably easier than both of them. Very nice!
Hope to get them done this year but would probably be at the beginning of 2024. (currently working on the other series that I had gotten before this one). Thank you for sharing your experience I appreciate it! Always good to know what others think besides my own testing. Glad you like the knives, I will keep pushing Xinzuo/Hezhen to improve on future series. My current feedback is that they need more lighter knives and series with less of a big handle (the newer series are more on the large side where I heard mixed feedback from those with medium and small hand sizes but the large and extra large hand size crowds were more positive).
Hey chef, do you know why a glossy knife didn't make it as a supermodel? It wasn't cut out for that work 😛
😂
Did you take any thickness measurements of the knives? Any tests cutting dense produce coming up?
Wich knife do you want measurements of? I will add a brief segment talking about it in the full review. Most of the reviews are finished and filming already done needs to be edited at the moment.
3 stunners, I actually feel really bad for Japanese knife manufacturers. They already are extremely aggressive on knife pricing considering the cost of doing business there, their knife smiths are criminally underpaid. Meanwhile China has a lower cost of business and countless thousands of expert smiths in Longquan and other cities. Which give them a massive extremely experienced and adaptable labour pool for their knife industry.
They have been advancing so fast lately, but they were stationary for a few years while I was buying the Chinese-made knife to test where it was basically 2 categories. Just ok (has all the basics nothing extraordinary to point out but was happy to find a knife that was decent) and they had very badly made knives. But then there is a sudden shift from currently one brand in particular Xinzuo/Hezhen. And they are adding things I have not seen any other manufacturers do yet in terms of blade grind etc.
I will have to wait and see how the knife market adapts to it, Other manufacturers always had an advantage in terms of Quality control and better heat treatment but that gap has been closing very fast including steel types from China compared to the imported Japanese steel or western steel.
From a home cook Western perspective, the Aus 10 will be the most preferred--and not for price alone. The pebble texture will do the best to minimize sticky vegetables, and the ergonomic handle is not so controlling. Ken Onion designed a very controlling ergonomic Shun Kaji that was perfect for a few--but a disaster for everyone else. The redesigned Kaji backed off considerably. The belly on the 110 layer with the great damascus pattern and super ergonomic handle contrasts sharply with the far more conservative Shun dual core profiles. The copper damascus with the kiritsuke tip and the Zhen handle should be a smashing success with everyone--even tempting the home cook enthusiast.
A full review of these 3 will take a while, so I can't comment on the pebble's texture yet (I had a hard time getting the English word for it in the video I had the image of pavements/stone and cobblestones in my head but the English word for it did not want to pop up in my head so I called it ''stone-like'' pattern haha). I do think it should be similar to a hammered pattern but have to test it out before I can give my opinion on it.
I have two Ken Onion knives with somewhat similar texture. @@chefpanko
@@drrayeye very interesting I could find one in the pictures it does not look like they are protruding out that much but I can see the similarities. What do you think of it? They do cover the entire blade compared to this one where they only cover the top part.
@@chefpanko Yes. The treatment goes all the way. I don't know how he did it, but I think it was a great alternative to damascus.
Panko 💪
You might as well just call the brand "Shinzaku" at this point! haha
That copper Damascus is breathtaking... I have never seen anything like it. I wonder how they sealed the copper from further oxidation though...
hahaha was it that bad I thought I had improved!! 😅I was told who they worked with for that copper Damascus but I unfortunately can't disclose it since they have not published it themself. I will keep the question in mind once the review for it has been finalized so that I can ask them about it.
I thought it's called chihuahua 😂
@@cylltndn7935 🤣what.......got to work on my English too!!!
These don't look too bad, the copper pattern on that kiritsuke is a little overdone, though. Since you mention the weight, it would have been nice if you had put the knives on to a kitchen scale to show the specific weight of each.
Thank you for the feedback :)
I will do it in a full review after I have tested them properly as this video is intended as a raw reaction (first impression) after unboxing without any tools so I have to observe as I unbox and base everything on touch, feel, and sight. It will take a while to test one knife approximately 2/4 weeks to get my final thoughts on them (and I have 15+ other knives that need to be reviewed before I can upload one of the 3 in this video).
Hopefully, I can get everything done on a weekly schedule. Currently working on 2 Lan Series Santoku knice. (Testing done but just need to edit it for next week's upload).
Hello chief! I want to buy a good knife. You have already tried them in action, but you have not released the video, which I have been waiting for a long time. Discounts on Ali will end soon
Can you briefly tell me which one is better to take so that you don't regret it?
Tricolor is much worse than the same, but with zdp 189?
110 layered damascus is thin, but is it durable?
With a pebble on the knife, it looks very heavy and thick.
In terms of comfort, the Tri-color is almost the same as the ZDP-189 version since it shares pretty much the same profile, and thicker ground on the blade overall.
110 Layers Damascus is indeed thin with all 3 knives with regular use so no bones, frozen food, etc. It should be durable for most kitchen tasks.
Pebbel knife is overall on the thickest side compared to the other 2 making it more durable, when we talk about the design perspective of the blade thickness.
The thicker the knife the more durable or ductile it will be. But the thicker the knife you will lose some of the smooth cutting feel.
With all 3 you can't go wrong in terms of comfort. So the question would be what knife will suit you the best in your cutting style or primary cutting motion.
If you like a straighter blade profile the Tri-color has the best profile for up and down motions whereas the other 2 are better for a rocking motion.
It is not really about what knife steel will outperform the other but I would rather look at what knife will suit your cutting style the best.
Weight wise all 2 were pretty much similar.
All 3 good knives but what knife suits you the best depends on your primary cutting motion and use case.
For me, I use the up-and-down motion more so I prefer a blade with a straighter profile. I don't need the thinner knife for my regular day-to-day cooking. All 3 handles were good for my hand size. So my option of the 3 would be the Tri-color one not because of the steel or design but purely based on my cutting preference and use case.
@@chefpanko Thank you, Chief.
So it turns out that if I want to take it with a straight blade, too, like you, I won't need to overpay, can I take it cheaper? That is, a knife with a tricolor damascus does not give any advantages over the same one but with 10cr13 steel (vg 10)?
@@blagor07 You can also look at the Santoku version. Those knives are shorter but work great too for most home use scenarios and come with a pretty straight blade profile. 10cr is fine too the ones I like with 10cr are from Dongsun, Xinzuo, and Hezhen so far.
The Chinese versions are often cheaper due to various reasons. Steel is simply not possible for Chinese manufacturers to order from or import as they don't want their steel to be used by a Chinese manufacturer which forced the Chinese steel manufacturers to come up with their own equivalent versions (which in some cases can have a rough start like with the 10cr from 4 years back).
Hello!! Panko ,lately I have been very interested in the world of knives and their maintenance and your videos and blog content are helping me a lot to understand part of this world (I am hooked on these videos hahaha, keep it up!! I am a beginner and I would like to do A good initial investment but I have many doubts due to my inexperience. The metal used in these knives, the equivalent of the Japanese VG10, 10Cr15moV and 9Cr18MoV, are they recommended? I am looking for a chef's knife, which would be the most recommended between the two options in the video The first knife (cross pattern) or the copper one? And is there any other knife (chef or peeler) from this brand or another, that is reasonably affordable in terms of quality and price that does not cost more than €160 like a whustoff ikon classic?
Greetings and support to the channel, I hope for more quality content about knives and thanks in advance!!
With all steel types, it all depends on the final heat treatment from the manufacturer/brand as to whether the steel will perform as advertised.
Therefore I can only recommend knives that I have personally tested. But in general ''made in Japan'' is the most consistent in quality control and heat treatment. Just be careful with the scams and bait and switch where they advertise things or word certain things in making it look like it is a Japanese ''made'' knife. (many times it is made in China).
Made-in-China knives are not bad, the problem is the sea of brands and misleading sales pages. Therefore a lot of brands I can't recommend anymore besides the select few like Xinzuo/Hezhen (same manufacturer). Dongsun knives are good too with their AUS10/Chinese VG10. For many other brands, I had mixed results.
Now looking beyond the actual core material everything else is also important the blade style, profile, taper, etc. As a matter of fact, I actually look at the knife style/comfort/anatomy first before looking at all the other technical specs where the core steel is the last thing I evaluate.
So yes, I do recommend the 10Cr15CoMoV and 9Cr18MoV from brands like Xinzuo/Hezhen their 10Cr and Dongsun both were consistent in what they promised. (but for the knife style and series it is another thing to evaluate).
As for 9Cr the brand Dengjia does a good job with that steel along with Xinzuo/Hezhen.
As for the knife you are mentioning, all knives in this video have not been fully tested as to why this is just a first impression so I can't say much beyond what is said in the video. (as explained above before I can recommend something I have to test them fully).
So my first question would be why a Chef's knife? Why was that your first choice among all the other knife styles? I do think that many automatically go for Chef's knife due to it being exposed everywhere on videos online and TV shows. But that does not necessarily mean that that is the best knife style for your purpose. Other knife styles while not popular might be the better option for your specific cutting task. So what is your primary cutting motion? Rocking on the cutting board or lifting the knife up with an up and forward down motion? What do you plan to prep with?
Those are the first simple questions so that I can guide you to a knife style that might be more suitable for your cutting style.
I have not seen any peelers from Xiznuo/Hezhen, but I would focus on which style of knife will suit your cutting style the best before looking at everything else. As with a Chef's knife, you have multiple brands that do the profile differently some profile works for other and some don't. More rounder belly profile or a more straight belly profile on a chef's knife? etc.
I'm not a fan of a rocking motion so for me I prefer a straighter profile chef's knife like many Japanese branded ones categorized as Gyuto's as they are generally speaking straight (a select few make it more rounder lately on some series).
Hope that this helps and if you can tell me your preferred/main cutting style and what you plan to prep then I can guide you in a better direction. (also add your budget, not more than 160 euros there will be a lot even Japanese-made knives I can recommend at that price range).
@@chefpanko Hello again Panko!! Thank you very much for your previous response, it has honestly helped me take into account some things that I was overlooking.
To start, I am interested in a chef's knife and a utility/paring knife because I want to have the basic knives for the kitchen and making a good initial investment so that they last a long time.
If you have any suggestions on other types of knives, let me know (in the future I'll probably go for a nakiri but that's when I have the main ones)
I hope I don't bore you with a little anecdote, but I already have a Santoku from the Mosfiata brand, it was a gift from my partner and the first in my collection, before I used the typical household knives that are not good, and I consider this my first '''good'' knife. Now that I am more immersed in this world, I want to expand my collection with higher quality knives, but the santoku, even though it allows me to do everything, loses its edge very quickly and for some more precision tasks, the curved tip is not the most comfortable.
That's why I first thought about a chef's knife that usually has a sharper edge (like the ones in this video, the first knife and the copper one that I really like since the first one looks more Western). At first I looked at a Western one, the whustoff ikon classic, which, despite being a workhorse, I lean more towards the Japanese gyutoh style, straighter knives without so much belly on the blade, to be more specific with the aesthetics. , the kengata style ones (I think it's written like that, the ones with the tip cut off)
I understand that Japanese knives are harder and more brittle, and this makes me a little afraid, for example, if crushing garlic could be a problem.
Speaking of other issues, I'm looking for a chef/gyutoh knife and a utility/peeler for more delicate jobs.
*I also want a Chinese cleaver because of the advantages it offers and its aesthetics. At first I was going for the CCK Cai Dao, but with the logo change and its high price I preferred to go for a cheaper option of which there is a review on this channel (the Shi Ba Zi Zuo slicer) although I am open to suggestions ;)
Other information to keep in mind is that I usually use the pinch grip on the ferrule and also on the blade.
The weight/balance point of the knife in my preference has to be in the center/bolster, although I don't care if it is on the blade or the handle
Regarding the handle, both the Japanese and Western styles seem comfortable to me, and like you, I have a large grip.
And my cutting style is varied, I normally use knives for vegetables, boneless meats and occasionally some fish.
up and down/chopping (the most frequent), forward/back and down, and sometimes rocking to finely chop some herbs.
And the maximum budget for a knife would be about €160, more or less what the copper xinzuo costs.
On the subject of brands, in the case of the Japanese ones, just like the Chinese ones, there are so many and I get overwhelmed because I don't know where to choose.
Thanks to the content of this channel and the blog, I am opting for xinzuo or henzen and later I will investigate the ones you recommended in the last comment.
Thank you very much in advance Panko and greetings from Spain!!
@@anikilador2i Thank you for the added info.
You are on a good way and know what you want. In terms of peelers and paring knives nothing fancy. When it comes to peelers most of them will be good enough and they are cheap so if it breaks you can easily replace them. Paring knives just a simple one like the ones from Victorinox I can recommend when on discount you can get them around 3 euro per piece. (paring knives are very versatile you can never have enough). Great for peeling apples, potatoes, etc. A peeler will do fine too but I often use a paring knife. Same with peelers you don't need a fancy peeler of 50 euro. Just around 5 euros will be good (fancy stainless will maybe be like 8 euros).
In terms of edge retention a cheap knife will get dull faster but all knives will get dull eventually so investing in a whetstone and honing rod is advised for edge/sharpness maintenance. So not repair or extremely dull maintenance if it is just for sharpness maintenance you can get great results with just a combi stone #1000/2000 of just one stone of #2000 or #3000 grit rating. (I don't advise soaking stones just a good ceramic splash and go goes a long way) .
I agree I hate the new logo and personally will not buy a CCK for that reason alone until they revert back and remove the silly QR code.
A Shibazi F208 is a good option and a lot more affordable.
Now that I know what kind of knife you prefer I can recommend the following styles:
- Gyuto's with straighter profiles.
- Bunka/Santoku.
As for a Nakiri, there is no need for you can go for a tall Nakiri which sits between a Chinese cleaver and a Nakiri. So if you go for a tall Nakiri you can skip the Chinese chef's knife (Cai Dao).
So think about a Xinzuo PM8 Tall-Nakiri (A review will follow soon). The First impression can be found on my channel but I have finished testing it.
As for the multi-purpose knife that fits in your budget:
Hezhen Elegant Series Santoku Knife (With 14Cr14MoVnB)
First impression here: ruclips.net/video/c4oUfTxQxoA/видео.htmlsi=R3nCoVLyRJuEQrx_&t=17 (Full review will follow also finished testing)
And the copper version in this video, while I did not test that one the ZDP189 version I have tested it, and while the grind on that version is superior to the copper version the price is also 2 times more. It shares the same style and profile so it is a knife that suits your preference. (I can't say much about the core material etc. as I have not reviewed the copper version yet).
I have finished testing the ZDP189 version which from the looks is the same blade with some minor adjustments that make the ZDP189 Xinzuo knife one of the best they have made.
Japanese knife for 160 euros:
Misono Gyuto Swedish Carbon Steel (not stainless).
Misono 440 Gyuto
Misono profiles are on the straighter side which I personally like.
If you can find a webshop that sells the Makoto Kurosaki knives from his first few knife ranges those were a great value at that time.
So Makoto Kurosaki with Blacksmith finish was around 160 euros. (but with his improved skills and popularity the knives have been going for around 200+ Euro)
Hope that this helps you in the right direction while I like to recommend more Japanese-made knives I realized that the ones I have tried in the past were all around 200+ Euro and now nearing 300+ Euro.
So get one multi-purpose knife or multiple cheap paring knives (I can recommend the Victorinox ones they are very stainless so use them throw them in the sink and wash later etc. get multiple so that you can get lazy and grab a new one until the clean ones are all used up then wash them all at once). A peeler does not get something fancy it is a simple product if you buy a branded one it would not cost you more than 5 euros (just don't buy extremely cheap ones from the dollar store and you will, be good).
Knife maintenance is more important than the knife so get a good whetstone, like the splash and go ceramic. I highly recommend ceramic ones over-soaking ones. (Don't be fancy the goal is maintaining the sharp edge not repairing so just a simple single grit of #2000 or #2000 is good) if you want to brag online and cut paper by all means invest in as many stones as you want but the reality is just one stone for maintaining edge sharpness is enough. Many will even advise a strop that is not needed. For added convenience when you don't have time to grab a whetstone use a ceramic honing rod (which you can use as an indication to prepare for a whetstone maintenance session). If you do it periodically and on time you can just be done within less than 3 min per knife. A ceramic rod is a few seconds that you use as a touch-up and indication of when to hit the knife edge on a stone.
Hope this helps.
Hi Chef, thanks for your video, those knives can surely compete with Japanese ones, but at the end they are priced the same ! So, for the same price, do you by a BMW or a Chinese copy ?
For the same price, I focus on picking what works best for me, no matter where it's made.
In the past, Chinese-made knives weren't as good as brands like Shun and Tojiro. They lacked quality and craftsmanship. But now, some Chinese knives are getting really good, maybe even better than Japanese ones. So, I don't just care about where they come from anymore all that matters is the end product and not the country of origin.
I'm excited to see this progress because it makes companies try harder and come up with new ideas. Some Western companies need to do the same and not just stick with the old ways.
In 2024, I hope to attend a Tradeshow in Germany*, where major brands like Zwilling, Miyabi, Shun, Kai, Wusthof, F-Dick, Victorinox, and more showcase their latest collections (they were there in 2023, not sure if they will attend again in 2024). This will give me the opportunity to witness firsthand how these knives and innovations compare and compete with each other.
- *If I manage to get a pass to get in as they are mostly for B2B
If a Chinese-made knife outperforms the competition, I'll choose it without hesitation. As a reviewer, I prioritize the end product over brand loyalty.
If a Chinese copy is better than the competition, I'll choose it without thinking twice. As a reviewer, I care about the end product more than loyalty to any brand. But if the Chinese copy doesn't meet my standards, I'll go for the BMW. I just want the product that's right for me, without any brand bias.
You will see that in my full review, I have some criticism on some of the knives I have gotten from Xinzuo and I hope they will address this in future new series (the 3 in this video has many of my criticism already incorporated in the design hence why I could not see any improvement suggestions at first glance but might have some in the full review which I will give them my constructive feedback on what could have been done better).
You’ve made vague insinuations. Which Japanese premium knives are these copies of specifically?
That will help people make price and feature comparisons.
@@l26wang I replied with a general point of view to his comment, but having an exact comparison of what knife brand and type would help in evaluating the knives more thoroughly. But as said before I no longer have to look at where they are made as long as the end product is good (and believe me some are already above my own expectations which will be evaluated in the full review).
So I can only give them my feedback on the end product how it performs and why I think some things should have been changed, To my surprise they were very accommodating and have shared my feedback with their design and testing team.
Unlike some other brands that try to disregard the feedback and defend their stance, Xinzuo immediately said thank you and agreed with my feedback and he will pass it on to the design/testing team for future reference and releases.
@@l26wang Let's talk about the Xinzuo Zhen Series Chef Knife Copper Damascus (priced arround 200€) vs Kei Kobayashi R2 Special Finished CS 170mm (priced at 210€) !
@@andrephocas8263 You actually got me to take a closer look at the specs of the Zhen Series Chef Knife Copper Damascus. It's 12Cr18mov steel. I actually can't find out much details of this steel. But the overriding feature of this knife is beauty of the copper cladding.
R2 is a advanced powdered steel with known superb characteristics.
I don't think these are comparable at all. It's looks vs function. The only similarity seems to be the price. Even the blade shape is very different.
Keep a scale to measure the weight
I don't know how they stack up to japanese knives but these are expensive knifes really especially the kiritsuke I mean 150 dollar that ain't cheap like you hope for it to be, but they are looking good
Japanese* knives*
there you go thnx@@einundsiebenziger5488
Thank you for disclosing the paid sponsorship
I will always disclose how I got the knives either paid by myself given to me for review or a paid sponsorship. I mostly will add it at the beginning of the video through text. In this case, the knives were given to me for free for a review without any NDAs or embargo so I'm free in what I say (wich is one of my terms if they want me to review their products).
Voltei a ver seus videos.