I have a half dozen Bugera amp heads and they all cost below $700usd (333XL, 1990, 1960, 6260, 6262 & trirec) and they all sound so very very close to the amps they clone, however once I put in $150 worth of new tubes in each amp it went into another level of awesomeness. It put them on par if not better than their Marshall/Mesa/Peavey counter parts. Good pick on the Tungsol tubes btw, I exclusively use Russian Tubes, namely the brands owned by EHX/New sensor corp. The preamp tube i use almost exclusively is the Sovtek 12ax7lps, it's unbelievable how amazing those little bastards are
Darrell Braun Guitar Like to see a speaker comparison with this amp too. 200.00 amp good tubes and the right speaker would be worth it to me. I have some good gear but ALWAYS change tubes and speakers. I don’t care about the brand name just tones. Looking at the low price point of this amp o could see myself buying two of them and tweaking one for metal and one for cleaner tones. I have never had one tube amp cover the spread of metal to clean sparkly tones to the level I would really like. You always have great common sense videos that are geared toward relative information. Keep it up please. I watch every video you do. I look forward to many more. Thanks brother
As an "amp guy", I recommend changing out the cathode capacitor to a different value. The result will be more dramatic than changing the tubes. I do agree that changing the "first" tube (preamp tube-usually a 12AX7 variety) in the circuit will make almost all the change, a tube swap will make. (provided the other tubes are in decent shape) A capacitor, located on the "other side" of the tone knob cuts treble and can be removed, or value changed, this is often a round, ceramic capacitor. Resistors in the tone circuits move the response, they work with the tone knob's resistance values. Old resistors often can be found at different values, from degrading over many years. All of these are covered in many videos so, please obtain the schematic for your amp, and if your not sure contact a local tech!
I like paralleling V1 cathode bypass cap to a total value of around 10uF. When this tube is shared between clean and drive channel, I like to mimic the higher frequency shelf response of 820 or 680 nf cathode bypass cap like Marshall by bypassing attenuator resistor with 220-470pF - to obtain mid-treble boost/bypass. Often LT Spice simulation on PC is helpful to know what to expect, we can even pass Fourier Transform to check for good even/odd harmonics combo... Then with 10uF I have fendery bassy cleans and full but tight drive channel. Beside that I sometimes solder 390-470pF caps across plate resistor to kill unwanted trebles. Sometimes decouple signal with 180-220pF caps between stages. The next thing is the speaker. Sometimes the circuit is developed around bad speaker with restricted treble response. This is pain when You want to use better speaker with such a circuit. All of the sudden everything is trebly and ear-hurting. This is because trebles are not micromanaged - rolled off across gain stages and a good speaker will sound awful. However adding some "snubbers" across plate resistors smoothens the tone properly. Rolling of trebles before cold clipping stage or higher gain clipping warm stage will roll of unmusical treble and make place for overtones created at the next stage. This will give You very nice, tight, full and musical drive tone.
@@TheBoomtown4 Does this apply to any amp? I have a Bugera V22 and find it to lack bottom end. It’s quite chimy. I don’t know what tubes or upgrades to make. There are some forum posts on the amp but not much info about how to achieve what I’m wanting. I’d like to achieve more of an early Pearl Jam tone if possible. Currently it sounds more like a 70’s rock tone (ex: Boston). Thanks for any input you can share.
graphicartdude changing the preamp tube in v1 position can really change how the amp acts and behaves, I feel. Those Mesa spax7 tubes are rebranded tubes of a different maker (up to 3 I believe) but whatever ones they use, I found it really made my gain smoother and warmed up the mids, etc. There are charts for different 12ax7 tube characteristics that you can find online but the Mesa spax7’s I bought, whichever manufacturer they used, worked great. You could also put a GE-7 eq pedal in the chain etc. That amp is voxy by nature I believe.
Thanks, Darrell! For a hobbyist like me, the cost / gain issue is an important one. The differences between tones with different tube sets are there, but not dramatic enough (for me) to justify the cost of a full set of replacements.
I believe it is vital to ensure you never touch the sockets on the amp that the tubes insert into as they can carry LETHAL voltages even when the amp is unplugged. So take care folks.
Darrell is always so enthusiastic and cheerful. This is yet another excellent video where we could hear shockingly subtle tone differences only because we heard exact samples back to back. Still so many videos out there where someone riffs for 2 min and then plays 2 min of other riffs on the other piece of equipment and there's no hope of picking out a difference even when a great difference exists. This channel delivers real results.
Man, When I was about 10 or 12 I would go play and roam in the woods. There was an abandoned house so my freind and I went into this small basement area and we see these things having no idea what they are so what do we do? Smash em' in a parking lot! :( two boxes full of different tubes. 15 I start playing guitar, now 27 . The kool plumes of vapor they made when smashed now make me cringe, I destroyed the housing of so many souls of tone.... I Repent!
I’m an electrical engineer, one of my coworkers got a few boxes of tubes from one of our retirees, he picked out the tubes that fit in his amp and threw the rest in the trash... I cringed but then again, if it were me they would have just wasted space in my basement until they were accidentally broken or trashed by a family member.
I purchase both the 5W and 15W Versions of this amp from monoprice and i have to say I’m really happy. the 15W I initially received had microphonic issues with the tubes I contacted their support and immediately got an RMA.The replacement is perfect couldn't be happier.
I have both aslo. The 5W is a clean amp but will get some tasty, bluesy dirt if played loud enough to break up the tubes. It really shines with an over drive pedal. The 15W is more of a gainy rock amp that needs an EQ boost pedal to get a louder clean tone. Very different amps but both are great. The 15W is just pure classic hard rock tone in spades, love it! It would be really cool if monoprice made a 2 channel tube amp.
Finally, someone who uses the exact same audio for a shoot out. Thank you! O have always wondered why people don’t do this with a simple looper pedal or reamping for pedal and amp shootouts. It keeps the control and makes the outcome much more accurate.
I did notice that the more expensive replacement tubes made for a better sound, in that at the end of the sound bites, I could acrually hear more notes from the last chord a bit more clearly. To me, it would be worth it to replace the stock tubes with the better replacement tubes and just keep the stock tubes for emergency situations ! Great Show, Darrell ! Thanks, For All That You Do !
I really enjoy your channel. I began playing in 1962 but I quit playing about 3 years ago. Watching your channel has helped me to want to start playing again. Thank you.
I agree with your assessment - just change the V1 tube. I actually liked the stock tubes better when you played the chords in all phases of your testing. Changing V1 tube made the individual notes ring clearer, but didn't seem to take away the "dirtier" growl of the power chords. Great video!
@gillan64 I also tried many speakers in my hot rod, classic 30, traynor, and guess what? Nothing was better then the stock speaker! Go figure! I think speaker swap is WAY overrated...
@@guitareMTL when I buy any guitar product i leave it stock. They get paid to know better than me 😆. Btw peavey amps are awesome. Love my old 80s solo series 65 bandit.
Speaker upgrade for sure. I was in the market for something with a little more clean volume and pulled the trigger on one of these after the first video. It sounds soooooo much better through my Randall v30 1x12. I'm honestly probably just gonna convert it to a head and use the 70/80 speaker to replace the 8in speaker in my old repurposed organ Leslie.
Gonna subscribe. I've recently been tube swapping/tone chasing through the pandemic. Now I'm addicted to it. Next up replacing my stock Celestion 1x12 from Blackstar Studio 10 KT88 with Ruby or Blue or Green. I put Genalex Gold Lion KT88 and 12AX7 in the Blackstar and very pleased. I have JJ, Tung-Sol, Mullard, and more Genalex in other devices. If it has a stock no name tube, I've tried upgraded it. Even on one of those ART StudioV3 Tube mic pre putting in a Mullard or JJ or Genalex really warms vocals. Even with a simple SM58 you can hear it. The better the mic, the more prominent the difference. The best I can describe it is you get a glassy sparkle with the Russian made reissue tubes. I've never going complete beast mode and gone NOS but have little doubt it would yield pleasant, subtle changes even in the simplest tube device. Thank goodness for my tube obsession. Otherwise I may have gone crazy during this pandemic. Or maybe I already did and that's why I am obsessed with glassy, sparkly analog audio! Don't knock it. It's a hobby!
The after market tubes were definitely a slight improvement but really, the stock tubes sound great, I wouldn't f**k around with them until they need replacing :)
Darryl, I replaced all of the tubes with Tung Sols but I put a 12AY7 in the #1 preamp position. There was a loss of volume but the tone was much cleaner. I also replaced the 2 spring reverb with a 3 spring reverb that was a direct replacement. For mere mortals like myself the tone this “ budget” priced amp is terrific. Thanks for your work!😊
I thought this video was "Tubular" and very cool. I went on a tube quest myself and found out the V1 preamp tube makes the biggest difference when changing tubes, especially if you go from something like a 12ax7 to a 12au7.
Which isn't surprising, because there is a substantial difference in gain between a 12Au 7 and a 12Ax7. 12Ax7 has a voltage gain of 100, while the 12AU7 voltage gain is more like 30 or 40 something if I remember correctly. Try a 5751 tube, it's pin out compatible with the 12AX7 and has a voltage gain of about 70.
Love to hear a Vintage 30 in this. I'm betting that would be the biggest single mod that makes the biggest difference. Seriously pondering getting one of these although I have no need for one, or space for that matter.
In your description here, "V3" is the power inverter. This should be considered a part of the power amp tubes. (Same on all tube amps.) The biggest "tone change" will be noticed on the V1 tube usually. Mesa checks their tubes very well and have a "STR 12AX7" that does well in V1 for a cleaner tone. You can replace a 12 AX7 with a 12 AU7 for a less gain/cleaner tone too. (Any 12 A...& can be replaced with any other 12 A...7 with no problems.) [I used to be a "factory authorized repair tech' for Mesa Boogie, Fender, Orange, Marshall, and several other manufactures.) I used to help guys "chase tones" to get what they were after a lot. Chinese 12 AX7's a good "bang for the buck" and do good on higher gain amps. They typically sounded a bit more 'brittle' to me when playing clean tones. I liked the Tung-Sol's, Mullard's, or JJ's a bit better for clean tones. (I generally play cleaner tones and use pedals in front of the amp: compressor, boost, drive and the like.) Good post - Thank you!
I could definitely hear the difference in the blind tests, it was pretty clear which sounds were the aftermarket tubes. I think you're right though - the smart, cost-effective thing to do is just replace the 1st preamp tube. Makes a difference for not much money. Nice video!
Hey Darrell, very good video! It's amazing how much difference you'll get with different tubes. Here in Germany, I have access to inexpensive Telefunken NOS tubes. When I got my Hot Rod dlx, the thing that has always plagued them is the volume knob. on 1 you can barely hear it, and on 2 it's peeling paint from the walls it's so freaking loud. I had to replace the Power amp tubes because they were originals from 1996 and had gone microphonic. But I did the George Benson mod to the V1 tube with a 12AU7 instead of the AX7. WOW!! what a difference. Not only did it smooth out the volume issues, but even made the Fender gain sounds much more useable. When I switched out the rest of the Pre-amp tubes with Telefunken 12AX7's it just improved all of the characteristics of the amp. Reverb, gain stages, EQ. it turned into a really good amp. Then swapped out the Original Fender Jensen with a Eminence George Alessandro 12 inch speaker, and it went from really good to awesome great!! I have too many amps, but the only ones that get played are the HRDx and a DV Mark Gen 15 Silver that I had done the same tube mod too. The DV Mark is a great pedal platform and can be just as clean and chimey as the Fender (they even dress it up in the standard Fender silver grill cloth and black chicken knobs ;) wink wink). So you know the tone they were going after. But in the overdrive department straight from the amp, it is much much more useable and pleasing to the ear than Fender typical. Anyway, I definitely suggest people swap tubes out with the best quality they can afford over the stock stuff, especially if the tubes in it are old. Sometimes it will make dramatic changes with the characteristics of your amp. Bob in Germany
I have this amp and absolutely love it. I use Tung-sol power tubes, a Mesa (Russian) 12AT7 in V1, and stock 12AX7s in V2 and V3. Overall, it makes a big difference in tone, to my ears. Lots more clean headroom, and it overpowers all the Line6 Spiders out there at jam nights. I use mine in conjunction with a Fender Frontman 212R as a slave amp and get a really cool AC30 tone out of it. Can't ask for more than that!
I am putting the Tung-sol in the V1 slot today (the Tung-sol Darrell used in the video) I swapped out the stock 70/80 speaker with a Celestion Gold 8ohm after listening to a variety of speaker comparisons. I’m loving this amp right now.
Just to let you know - Speakers...tried a Vintage 30 and a Celestion “A-type” speaker ...liked something about the stock Vineland 70/80 the best. I know it sounds weird but I guess it’s voiced for that amp. The story on these amps is that it stared as a Laney club series and had a few upgrade. (They actually took the musician complaints into consideration). The original had a crappy reverb unit. The reverb tank in it now is the same used in a Blues Jr. So if you do some reading on forums don’t go down that road and replace it...it is a decent reverb tank.
Yep - the difference is much thiner that I thought it to be... I have a good ear, and absolutely trips on musical gear's tone and stuff, yet here the impact is quite minor, maybe even insignificant in the context of a band. New strings, on the other hand...
Darrell, another GREAT Video! Did the same experiment in my Monoprice (already had the Tubes kicking around), and found similar results. Went one step further, swapped out the speaker for a Celestion Brit Greenback (also already had). This made a bigger difference both with the standard tubes on the amp and more so with the upgraded Russian tubes. Was surprised the amount of difference heard with a better speaker between the tube sets. Would I go out and purchase tubes and a speaker worth almost twice the price of the amp to do this? NO! But if anyone has a "spare set" of tubes and better speaker kicking around, it is well worth trying. Love the tones I'm getting from this little Monoprice Now. The motivation for even attempting the experiment in the first place? Read on a forum about a gigging Blues Musician in Nashville that had purchase one of these as a "back-up" amp after his Fender crashed during a performance one night. It was cheap enough to take as an extra and would work in a pinch. Then his Fender blew to a point it wasn't worth fixing, so he swapped the tubes and speaker. Was planning using the Monoprice for a while till he decided what new amp he really wanted to buy. Ended up the Lil MP grew on him, liked the idea of being able to drag and use an inexpensive amp in small venues without worry of damage or theft. Over a year later of multiple gigs a week, apparently it's still working.
Funny, I followed you all the way to the results, where I absolutely would change out those Chinese power tubes. In fact I've done so in mine but put in some vintage Russian tubes (1970s) that make the amp so sweet. To my ear the stock power tubes sound tinny in clean mode and the Russian tubes smooth out that tone.
This. Stock tubes unpleasant to listen to. Makes me cringe. Surprised that the new tubes made it pleasant to listen to. Gets that sweet tube sound. Prob a small diff on paper, but it crosses the line from unpleasant to pleasant to me. Prob easier to hear in real life.
Can you do a comparison between this tube amp with stock tubes vs a comparably priced solid state for those of us who are unfamiliar with the direct sound difference?
@@freddycookjr.2164 No need to shout there, old chap. I say it's a fairly good idea to do just what LazyGamer suggests, as not everyone of us has your (fred cook's) extended experience.
I would like to hear that comparison too. after market tubes sounded only slightly better. Maybe it is a RUclips compression think keeping me from appreciating the difference.
@@freddycookjr.2164 I disagree. It's great to gig with tube amps if you can afford the hassles - I've had bassmans, boogies, a Vox or two, a couple Ampegs and a Marshall.. All were unreliable and expensive to deal with - often costing me more than the gig paid. I had to carry spare tubes...and a spare amp (a solid state amp). I finally gave up and went to full-on solid state relatively cheap Peavey two-channel amps - had an LA 400 and a couple of bandits... they were cheap to buy, sounded great both clean and dirty, and never cost another dime to operate. Would I record with them? No. But for bar gigs and the like - good enough.
@@HBSuccess that sucks you've had bad luck with tubes. My dad just gave me his old silvertone guitar with amp built into the case and the original tubes still sound great. He also has old fender and ampeg amps with original tubes and they all still sound amazing.
That was awesome! I have upgraded Celestion speakers in my 3 tube combo amps. That alone made a big difference for the better. I am now going to change out the tubes in all 3. Excellent information about where the tubes are actually made.
"better" is in the ear of the beholder ; changing any tube will alter the tone slightly ; but once you are accustomed to it .. you won't be able to tell the difference
Try some American made tubes from the seventies or earlier. Japanese tubes from radio shack from the seventies are also much better than Soviet or China junk.... And they will last for a long long time
I put a tung-sol balanced-triode 12ax7 in an inexpensive Vox vt40 as well as a Celestion G10 gold. Amazing difference as the preamp tube is the only tube in the amp. Why spend half the cost of the amp to replace 2 elements? My other option is my two 100 watt Marshall’s I have running in stereo (read: Not wife friendly volumes during a pandemic & those need to be pushing air to sound decent). The swap out produced nice sound out of a digital modeling practice amp. I have quite a few guitars since I’ve been buying them since the 70s. Suhr guitars are currently what I am playing, the difference was extremely noticeable on the Modern, a bit less on the thornbuckers in the Custom- T. Enjoy your channel 👍👍
Retubed mine first day with full set of tung sols, gold plated terminals on the preamps. Yes immediately less tinny buzz and warmer louder tone. Haven't fed it through the variac yet tho.... ;o)
Very good test Daz. The differences were there, but they WERE subtle! MORE improvement would be made by a speaker replacement. MORE difference valve-wise might be IF, you replace all the pres with low gain valves, like AU or AT7s! Also, wouldn't the bias need some adjustment when you changed those EL84s? As far as I know this amp is Class A/B not class A cathode biased. Cheers!
I have played out with this amp stock. Didn't even need to mic the amp its plenty loud enough. I run all my pedals through the front and it sounded fantastic.
I actually own one of those amps. I wanted something inexpensive that I can play in my apartment as well in a band. It has served me very well. I like the clean tones. I did switch all the tubes since I read in the forums that it would improve the tone quality. I ended up switching the power tubes with JJ EL844 tubes which give you a great sounding power tube break up at 25% lower volume. They have that pumping compression at lower volumes which sounds great. I'll switch them back to standard EL84's if I'm going to play in a band setting. And I used 3 matched JJ 12AX7 for the preamp. I think that amp sounds a LOT better than the tones I hear from any sub $1000 fender! And I'm only about $375 in! If you want an amp you can play in a band and also play in your apartment you can't beat this amp! Especially after putting in some decent tubes. I bought mine used and the previous owner switched the speaker to a much better sounding Celestian so I didn't need to make that purchase. Now I have a great sounding amp! And I didn't need to give up an arm, or a leg! 😁
Great video! On studio speakers, the change in all the tubes made a very significant difference. Just changing the output speakers seemed to make a big difference the more gain applied.
I expect that if you buy a handful of new JJ 12AX7 tubes and swap them each into the first preamp position that you might notice that are arent all the same.
Make sure you use use (very) seasoned wood, as in pine off of an old house or something, else probabaly better off with a good quality baltic birch ply.
Very good comparison, and I knew right away in that first clip which was which. The V1 change seems to help clean more than with gain, but have to admit it sounded better all the way around with the brand name tubes. It is a question of whether it is worth it to one to do it..just like you said. Glad you did this one, and thank you for it.
The answer to all of this is really to just put a good distortion pedal like an old Pro CO. RAT, and maybe a Boss 9 Band EQ pedal, and possibly a Boss DD2 delay pedal, with those 3 I can make most any decent amp sound unbelievable. That's the real ticket right there. 🤘 - Kevin Venture
@@weezerman2002 Cool, I will check them out! But I only mentioned a EQ and Delay from Boss. The Pro Company RAT is the bomb distortion!! If you can find an older original. 🤘
$20 tung-sol is more than a $5 -10 chinese tube I suppose. Vintage Mullard NOS 12AX7's are what $200 a tube now? Crazy. I've tried a lot of vintage tubes that were more reasonably priced(under $50) including the "Japanese Mullards" from the 70's made with the same design and equipment as the Blackburns. I have some GE JAN 5751's.The new production Tung-Sols sound as good as any IMO. They are a great go-to for quality, price and availability. My favorite vintage tubes in my collection are Tungsram's and the Beijing 12AX7's(with the white stars) from the 70's. There was a site on ebay a couple years ago that had the Beijing's 2 for $25 and they were the real thing with the square foil getter and the date stamp(mine were 4-78). I stocked up on them.
I previously watched this series last year and subsequently decided to buy this amp. I just changed the power tubes for JJ's. The main reason for changing them was looking at the stock no-name tubes, one of them was glowing much hotter than the other one. Upon digging into this amp's schematics, I noticed a small pot to adjust the bias. Bias is supposed to be set at -12.5v. When I checked mine, it showed -7.41v. Changing the tubes and biasing to the proper specs made a huge improvement to the overall tone, and added a lot of headroom to mine anyway as it was breaking up at a very low gain setting. So basically very little clean tones at half volume..
How did you check this ? I'd love to know more. I'd also like to know why my first model had a nice but humming reverb, and the replacement has just a quieter reverb (and quieter noise too)
That was a really well done test; it was controlled so that we can actually hear the differences that the tubes make. I bought this amp because I am trying to get more into electric guitar (up until recently I've just been an acoustic player) and I think the tone is really nice. I certainly don't feel the need to get new tubes.
Now this is funny because the tube in the V1 slot on my amp died and I ended up replacing it with a Tung-Sol. I gotta say, I think I notice the change and am enjoying it a bit... Or maybe I'm just happy my amp is back and rockin. Also to potentially disagree with my previous comment again, I think it's possible that the difference in tone will be more noticeable and more important in a less controlled environment. When you are listening to the sound as you play and making slight changes to your playing to make the noise you want to hear, you may end up playing into your setup a bit more. This how it would be in a "real life" situation anyway. I know I'm always listening to my playing and trying to make it sound a little better...
I'm glad you said there was only a slight difference... My old ears could not hear any difference and I attributed it to MY COMPUTER MONITOR speakers not the tubes. You being right there with the amp would certainly be more accurate. That little Stage Right amp is just amazing for the price (sounds great in your other tests, too). I think a lot of folks have written below and agreed with your conclusion.
Very interesting ! And yeah, I'm inclined to wait to replace tubes until they fail. I have a Blackstar HT-5R that was making some nasty noises. I pulled the tubes to get the numbers. Ordered some tubes. Put the original tubes back in and the nasty noises were gone. New tubes are in the drawer.
My son just put some JJ'S in his Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 18 and man does it sound sweet and i just put a whole new set of JJ'S in my Blackstar HT Stage 60 and it made it smoother and tighter because with the Ruby's it had it was kind of bassy.
Thanks for following up on the tube change. I think that I would opt for the change. The Number One Valve ( I dig the nomenclature) change was notable, and I appreciate the extra effort you took. Great job, just bought a Fender Junior Tweed, but this is tempting based on price alone. Thanks.
another thing you can do for a massive tone difference (if your not worried about overdrive) is to switch out the 12ax7's with 12au7's. you will loose some of the overdrive but youll get a warmer tone.
the new tubes definitely sound better. the small things like, getting the best pick, the best strings, the right pickup, the right tubes, and the preferred voiced amp all add up like plug ins in a mixing chain
Great review and great information! Did not realize that tubes are really just made in one of three locations. Very informative! Also, really noticeable difference between the stock and the aftermarket tubes.
I did the slot 1 change and live I can hear the difference. Slightly but yes it’s better. Thanks for showing us the way to improve. I’m hopping after the speaker breaks in it will just keep getting better. 👍🏻😎
These tone comparisons are interesting, but I'd also be interested to hear if you could nullify the difference between 2 slightly different tubes, pickups or amp heads just by tweaking an EQ pedal. In real-life scenarios, you take the equipment you've got and play with it until it sounds right, so it'd be cool to see how similar a sound you can get with different gear.
What a cool little amp, and great demo. The new tubes do make a difference, more saturation and more defined distortion. I agree you don’t really need to switch tubes, and would make a great first amp for someone starting out... I’ve certainly paid the same amount for amps in the past that didn’t sound half as good.
Great video! Cheaper amps have circuitry and speakers that do not pick up the nuances of good tubes. So many variables also. I have a few guitars that sound killer on ANY amp and I have some that don't. So many variables in play from the guitar, cord, amp, speakers. Me personally owning many tube amps is the tubes are the last thing to mod as having everything in front of the tubes tweaked first allows you to really hear the nuances of different tubes. Party On!
I have the boss katana 50 model and it is probably one of the best solid state amps I have ever played. If you are a beginner and trying to find your tone it’s probably going to be awesome do to its versatility, however if you have already found your style of playing I would go to a guitar Center and play many different amps. Like I said I love this amp and would recommend it 100%. I hope you end up getting it, cheers.
Ryan Dane I agree with you. I have some really expensive boutique amps. Does the Katana sound as good? No, but it comes pretty close for the price and ease of solid state. It’s a fantastic choice for beginners who are getting a taste of their style or someone who wants a practice amp that won’t burn up their NOS tubes.
Thank you Darrell for being honest about this. I was just about to make a comment saying that I couldn't hear much difference between the tubes (and I'm listening through Mackie CR5 speakers) but your conclusion was correct. It's just not worth the expense for the very small change in tone. You might like to change the speaker. That would definitely make a difference.
Great video, Darrell! In most cases, I think that the last preamp tube (the phase inverter) actually makes more of a difference to the sound than the first - it's driven by all the preceding gain, and is actually responsible for most of what's usually thought to be power tube distortion. You may notice a bigger change in tone by swapping out V3.
These amps do not ship well because of cheap particle board and wood screws. UPS trashed two, but I kept and repaired the second one. A pre-amp section AX7 fried . . . took it to an amp tech and all connections were good. He replaced the tubes (electroharmonix) and balanced the EL84's, and the amp is 100% better than stock. It is a good intro into tube amps. Very nice clean tones.
You might want to take your own advice, Electro-Harmonix tubes are made by New Sensor, an American owned company, in the Xpo-Pul factory (Reflektor) in Saratov, Russia. They also make Sovtek, Svetlana and reissues of Mullard and Tung-Sol tubes.
@@troll1441 New Senor makes some very good tubes IMO. The most drastic tube change I ever made was putting a svetlana 12ax7 in V1. That tube had a sound that was way darker than any tube I've ever heard before. Probably a love it or hate it tube depending on what tone your looking for. Unfortunately they don't make that tube anymore. I guess most didn't like it.
A gold-pin Tung Sol in V1 of my Peavey 6505+ improved my tone slightly, less shrill and more definition. They do the same for high gain Marshall amps as well, a little less fuzz. However the speaker is THE most dominate part of the your sound. Want less treble shrill? Get Eminence Texas Heat speakers. Want more brightness? Get Swamp Thangs or Celestion 75's.
I own both the 5w and 15w. I like the Super 8 in the 5w but the Seventy 80 in the 15w didn't have the efficiency I wanted so replaced with a Mojotone BV25. I replaced all the Chinese triodes with JJ, have Genalex Gold Lion EL84s and a NOS Sylvania 6L6GT in the 5w. Have a Ted Weber 10" AlNiCo I'm building a simple extension cabinet for. Still out far less $ than one boutique amp and except for the extension cab [got a good deal on the speaker and can use it with either amp] it doesn't take up extra space in the house. My tastes are different, your mileage may vary, void where prohibited, but unlike the amps whose circuits they emulate it doesn't seem like a sin to mod them nor a waste of money to do tubes and speakers [within reason]. 🤘😎🤘
A lot of amps have cathode followers but don't have elevated heater voltage...which doesn't normally matter, but if you use cheap preamp tubes with spiral wound filaments, you'll exceed the heater to cathode voltage of those tubes, and get arcing within the tube, or just general nastiness. Other than that...the difference isn't something you can't make up with a turn of a few knobs, or swapping out some cheap parts
I've got a gaggle of amps including some rare vintage ADA combos (Quad Tube 150M & Viper), a Marshall VS8280 combo, a Peavey Classic 50 212 combo, and Nady GTH-100 head & 4x12 half stack, but the more I look at this thing the more I want one. The price point is enticing, the build looks decent, and what I've heard sounds pretty good. I really like the handy wattage cut feature. I did notice an improvement in tone and volume response when you changed the tubes out. To some people it might not make that big a difference but the difference was definitely there. I wonder what it would sound like with a Cream or Green - Back speaker change. Cheers!
Nice comparison. Before you got to your conclusion, I was thinking the same thing. I didn't notice an appreciable difference, certainly not enough to justify the cost. I'm probably going to buy this amp, in large part due to your showcase of it. The test of upgraded tubes, if anything, seems to point out how solid the amp is stock.
The biasing is really only applicable when changing to a different tube designs. In this amp if he had gone from the 12ax7 tube to a 12at7 or a 12ay7 where the gain output is drastically different requiring different input voltages.
I actually preferred the stock tubes for a clean sound, but the replacement tubes did provide extra solidity that hadn't even seemed missing with the stock tubes -- until it was there. Changing just V1 worked great at tuning the clean sound, without having a lot of effect as the gain was cranked. Changing the power tubes did the reverse -- it had little effect on the clean sound, and was most obvious at high gain. I think that is the value in this -- not "do aftermarket tubes sound better?", but "if I want to change this particular thing, what tube or tubes should I look at changing?"
I just ordered this amp from monoprice and i have $750 worth of vintage 12ax7 12ay7 and 5581 tubes to tube roll with including a few RCA long black plate 12ax7 tubes ! V1 i will try for tone the RCA and for added gain stage and in V2 i might use a Phillips long plate 12ax7 or a Tungsram 12ax7 ! I all ways use a sovtek 12ax7LPS balanced triodes for the phase inverter in V3 ! You need the PI tube to not distort itself but pass the grit & gain along too the power tubes ! The Sovtek is the best PI on the planet unless you use a good 12at7 ! I all ready have the tubes needed including many new pairs of EL84 tubes including Sovtek and Ruby tubes and JJ and Genalex Gold Lion tubes ! You must not sacrifice tone for a few dollars saved , thats the problem with the Fender Blues Jr. where it was built cheap as possible and the input plastic jack breaks and needs many mods to use it cranked up !
I picked up an Orange OR15. The JJs in it made the amp metall-y and served up a lot of distortion. I swapped out the pres with nos mullards and they cut the gain dramatically. Now it's more like a warm overdrive instead of that diode clipping tone. So, swapping out the pres can make a huge difference.
Really informative channel. So glad I subscribed
Great video by the way
I know a lot of you guys were waiting for this one!
Enjoy :)
Darrell Braun Guitar bruh Jayne I should do this to my amp, maybe make it sound better
Darrell, you're a true man of the people. ✊
I have a half dozen Bugera amp heads and they all cost below $700usd (333XL, 1990, 1960, 6260, 6262 & trirec) and they all sound so very very close to the amps they clone, however once I put in $150 worth of new tubes in each amp it went into another level of awesomeness. It put them on par if not better than their Marshall/Mesa/Peavey counter parts. Good pick on the Tungsol tubes btw, I exclusively use Russian Tubes, namely the brands owned by EHX/New sensor corp. The preamp tube i use almost exclusively is the Sovtek 12ax7lps, it's unbelievable how amazing those little bastards are
Great Show, Darrell ! 🎸
Darrell Braun Guitar Like to see a speaker comparison with this amp too. 200.00 amp good tubes and the right speaker would be worth it to me. I have some good gear but ALWAYS change tubes and speakers. I don’t care about the brand name just tones.
Looking at the low price point of this amp o could see myself buying two of them and tweaking one for metal and one for cleaner tones. I have never had one tube amp cover the spread of metal to clean sparkly tones to the level I would really like. You always have great common sense videos that are geared toward relative information. Keep it up please. I watch every video you do. I look forward to many more. Thanks brother
As an "amp guy", I recommend changing out the cathode capacitor to a different value. The result will be more dramatic than changing the tubes.
I do agree that changing the "first" tube (preamp tube-usually a 12AX7 variety) in the circuit will make almost all the change, a tube swap will make. (provided the other tubes are in decent shape)
A capacitor, located on the "other side" of the tone knob cuts treble and can be removed, or value changed, this is often a round, ceramic capacitor.
Resistors in the tone circuits move the response, they work with the tone knob's resistance values. Old resistors often can be found at different values, from degrading over many years.
All of these are covered in many videos so, please obtain the schematic for your amp, and if your not sure contact a local tech!
I like paralleling V1 cathode bypass cap to a total value of around 10uF. When this tube is shared between clean and drive channel, I like to mimic the higher frequency shelf response of 820 or 680 nf cathode bypass cap like Marshall by bypassing attenuator resistor with 220-470pF - to obtain mid-treble boost/bypass. Often LT Spice simulation on PC is helpful to know what to expect, we can even pass Fourier Transform to check for good even/odd harmonics combo...
Then with 10uF I have fendery bassy cleans and full but tight drive channel. Beside that I sometimes solder 390-470pF caps across plate resistor to kill unwanted trebles. Sometimes decouple signal with 180-220pF caps between stages.
The next thing is the speaker. Sometimes the circuit is developed around bad speaker with restricted treble response. This is pain when You want to use better speaker with such a circuit. All of the sudden everything is trebly and ear-hurting. This is because trebles are not micromanaged - rolled off across gain stages and a good speaker will sound awful. However adding some "snubbers" across plate resistors smoothens the tone properly. Rolling of trebles before cold clipping stage or higher gain clipping warm stage will roll of unmusical treble and make place for overtones created at the next stage. This will give You very nice, tight, full and musical drive tone.
Just change the first tube (farthest from el84’s) to a Mesa spax7 and save yourself the money and hassle. All problems solved for $20
@@TheBoomtown4 Does this apply to any amp? I have a Bugera V22 and find it to lack bottom end. It’s quite chimy. I don’t know what tubes or upgrades to make. There are some forum posts on the amp but not much info about how to achieve what I’m wanting. I’d like to achieve more of an early Pearl Jam tone if possible. Currently it sounds more like a 70’s rock tone (ex: Boston). Thanks for any input you can share.
graphicartdude changing the preamp tube in v1 position can really change how the amp acts and behaves, I feel. Those Mesa spax7 tubes are rebranded tubes of a different maker (up to 3 I believe) but whatever ones they use, I found it really made my gain smoother and warmed up the mids, etc. There are charts for different 12ax7 tube characteristics that you can find online but the Mesa spax7’s I bought, whichever manufacturer they used, worked great. You could also put a GE-7 eq pedal in the chain etc. That amp is voxy by nature I believe.
@@adrianmierzwa3238 Great info!
Thanks, Darrell! For a hobbyist like me, the cost / gain issue is an important one. The differences between tones with different tube sets are there, but not dramatic enough (for me) to justify the cost of a full set of replacements.
these are not really great tubes. i take these tubes and replace them with old telefunken or rca black tubes. big difference.
I believe it is vital to ensure you never touch the sockets on the amp that the tubes insert into as they can carry LETHAL voltages even when the amp is unplugged. So take care folks.
Darrell is always so enthusiastic and cheerful. This is yet another excellent video where we could hear shockingly subtle tone differences only because we heard exact samples back to back. Still so many videos out there where someone riffs for 2 min and then plays 2 min of other riffs on the other piece of equipment and there's no hope of picking out a difference even when a great difference exists. This channel delivers real results.
Man, When I was about 10 or 12 I would go play and roam in the woods. There was an abandoned house so my freind and I went into this small basement area and we see these things having no idea what they are so what do we do?
Smash em' in a parking lot! :( two boxes full of different tubes. 15 I start playing guitar, now 27 . The kool plumes of vapor they made when smashed now make me cringe, I destroyed the housing of so many souls of tone....
I Repent!
😂🤣
Oooop
Just tell yourself that they were only tv tubes.
@@1980bwc Some of the best sounds I get out of the amps I make are old TV Tubes.
I’m an electrical engineer, one of my coworkers got a few boxes of tubes from one of our retirees, he picked out the tubes that fit in his amp and threw the rest in the trash... I cringed but then again, if it were me they would have just wasted space in my basement until they were accidentally broken or trashed by a family member.
I purchase both the 5W and 15W Versions of this amp from monoprice and i have to say I’m really happy. the 15W I initially received had microphonic issues with the tubes I contacted their support and immediately got an RMA.The replacement is perfect couldn't be happier.
I have both aslo. The 5W is a clean amp but will get some tasty, bluesy dirt if played loud enough to break up the tubes. It really shines with an over drive pedal. The 15W is more of a gainy rock amp that needs an EQ boost pedal to get a louder clean tone. Very different amps but both are great. The 15W is just pure classic hard rock tone in spades, love it! It would be really cool if monoprice made a 2 channel tube amp.
Finally, someone who uses the exact same audio for a shoot out. Thank you! O have always wondered why people don’t do this with a simple looper pedal or reamping for pedal and amp shootouts. It keeps the control and makes the outcome much more accurate.
Fascinating video as always. I was told to buy a tube amp when I first started playing and I got lucky with my Fender '68!
I did notice that the more expensive replacement tubes made for a better sound, in that at the end of the sound bites, I could acrually hear more notes from the last chord a bit more clearly.
To me, it would be worth it to replace the stock tubes with the better replacement tubes and just keep the stock tubes for emergency situations !
Great Show, Darrell !
Thanks, For All That You Do !
You'd better blow that tube money on booze...
I really enjoy your channel. I began playing in 1962 but I quit playing about 3 years ago. Watching your channel has helped me to want to start playing again. Thank you.
Your the most genuine kind human, you’re always smiling.
Is that a sarcasm?
Getting paid to play guitar, what's not to smile about?
I agree with your assessment - just change the V1 tube. I actually liked the stock tubes better when you played the chords in all phases of your testing. Changing V1 tube made the individual notes ring clearer, but didn't seem to take away the "dirtier" growl of the power chords. Great video!
I liked the stock tubes better myself.
Speaker type will have a much greater impact on tone than tube brands. That's a sweet little amp for the money.
@gillan64 that's because it's a Peavey!
@gillan64 ya confused! Nothing will help a Peavey better!
@gillan64 I also tried many speakers in my hot rod, classic 30, traynor, and guess what? Nothing was better then the stock speaker! Go figure! I think speaker swap is WAY overrated...
I’m a fan of Celestion
@@guitareMTL when I buy any guitar product i leave it stock. They get paid to know better than me 😆. Btw peavey amps are awesome. Love my old 80s solo series 65 bandit.
Good channel you got here. No fluff, no marketing puffery, a decent sense of empiricism. Good for you m8.
Next step: Upgrade the speaker
a greenback would fit nicely
First step, upgrade the speaker!
@arse Been there, done that. Can confirm this is the right answer
@@sup8534 lol
Speaker upgrade for sure. I was in the market for something with a little more clean volume and pulled the trigger on one of these after the first video. It sounds soooooo much better through my Randall v30 1x12. I'm honestly probably just gonna convert it to a head and use the 70/80 speaker to replace the 8in speaker in my old repurposed organ Leslie.
Gonna subscribe. I've recently been tube swapping/tone chasing through the pandemic. Now I'm addicted to it. Next up replacing my stock Celestion 1x12 from Blackstar Studio 10 KT88 with Ruby or Blue or Green. I put Genalex Gold Lion KT88 and 12AX7 in the Blackstar and very pleased. I have JJ, Tung-Sol, Mullard, and more Genalex in other devices. If it has a stock no name tube, I've tried upgraded it. Even on one of those ART StudioV3 Tube mic pre putting in a Mullard or JJ or Genalex really warms vocals. Even with a simple SM58 you can hear it. The better the mic, the more prominent the difference. The best I can describe it is you get a glassy sparkle with the Russian made reissue tubes. I've never going complete beast mode and gone NOS but have little doubt it would yield pleasant, subtle changes even in the simplest tube device. Thank goodness for my tube obsession. Otherwise I may have gone crazy during this pandemic. Or maybe I already did and that's why I am obsessed with glassy, sparkly analog audio! Don't knock it. It's a hobby!
I actually bought this amp because of your first video. It sounds great stock, I don't feel the need to mod it.
Congratulations!
Hopefully you're enjoying it :)
I bought one for the same reason. I'm not a sound snob so I think it sounds amazing, really happy with it!
It's a great sounding amp. I even bought it not knowing it has a external speaker output. A very nice feature.
TRUST me, at least a better speaker, it WILL sound better!
The after market tubes were definitely a slight improvement but really, the stock tubes sound great, I wouldn't f**k around with them until they need replacing :)
Darryl, I replaced all of the tubes with Tung Sols but I put a 12AY7 in the #1 preamp position. There was a loss of volume but the tone was much cleaner. I also replaced the 2 spring reverb with a 3 spring reverb that was a direct replacement. For mere mortals like myself the tone this “ budget” priced amp is terrific. Thanks for your work!😊
I thought this video was "Tubular" and very cool.
I went on a tube quest myself and found out the V1 preamp tube makes the biggest difference when changing tubes, especially if you go from something like a 12ax7 to a 12au7.
Which isn't surprising, because there is a substantial difference in gain between a 12Au 7 and a 12Ax7. 12Ax7 has a voltage gain of 100, while the 12AU7 voltage gain is more like 30 or 40 something if I remember correctly. Try a 5751 tube, it's pin out compatible with the 12AX7 and has a voltage gain of about 70.
@@goodun6081 Cool. I never tried 5751.
I like how you do not bury your comparison tones in delay effects --- so we can hear the guitar and amp.
Hi Darrell, I'm from Colombia and i love your videos, direct to the point, and very informative, i learn a lot, thanx again
Love to hear a Vintage 30 in this. I'm betting that would be the biggest single mod that makes the biggest difference. Seriously pondering getting one of these although I have no need for one, or space for that matter.
Mine shipped with a dead tube in the V1 slot, so I wound up having to upgrade just to get it to work.
Thanks for the demo!
Glad to help!
What tube did you end up putting in yours?
@@DarrellBraunGuitar Same Tung Sol you used here. I just grabbed what GC had in stock.
In your description here, "V3" is the power inverter. This should be considered a part of the power amp tubes.
(Same on all tube amps.)
The biggest "tone change" will be noticed on the V1 tube usually. Mesa checks their tubes very well and have a "STR 12AX7" that does well in V1 for a cleaner tone. You can replace a 12 AX7 with a 12 AU7 for a less gain/cleaner tone too. (Any 12 A...& can be replaced with any other 12 A...7 with no problems.)
[I used to be a "factory authorized repair tech' for Mesa Boogie, Fender, Orange, Marshall, and several other manufactures.)
I used to help guys "chase tones" to get what they were after a lot.
Chinese 12 AX7's a good "bang for the buck" and do good on higher gain amps.
They typically sounded a bit more 'brittle' to me when playing clean tones. I liked the Tung-Sol's, Mullard's, or JJ's a bit better for clean tones. (I generally play cleaner tones and use pedals in front of the amp: compressor, boost, drive and the like.)
Good post - Thank you!
I could definitely hear the difference in the blind tests, it was pretty clear which sounds were the aftermarket tubes. I think you're right though - the smart, cost-effective thing to do is just replace the 1st preamp tube. Makes a difference for not much money. Nice video!
Hey Darrell, very good video! It's amazing how much difference you'll get with different tubes. Here in Germany, I have access to inexpensive Telefunken NOS tubes. When I got my Hot Rod dlx, the thing that has always plagued them is the volume knob. on 1 you can barely hear it, and on 2 it's peeling paint from the walls it's so freaking loud. I had to replace the Power amp tubes because they were originals from 1996 and had gone microphonic. But I did the George Benson mod to the V1 tube with a 12AU7 instead of the AX7. WOW!! what a difference. Not only did it smooth out the volume issues, but even made the Fender gain sounds much more useable. When I switched out the rest of the Pre-amp tubes with Telefunken 12AX7's it just improved all of the characteristics of the amp. Reverb, gain stages, EQ. it turned into a really good amp. Then swapped out the Original Fender Jensen with a Eminence George Alessandro 12 inch speaker, and it went from really good to awesome great!! I have too many amps, but the only ones that get played are the HRDx and a DV Mark Gen 15 Silver that I had done the same tube mod too. The DV Mark is a great pedal platform and can be just as clean and chimey as the Fender (they even dress it up in the standard Fender silver grill cloth and black chicken knobs ;) wink wink). So you know the tone they were going after. But in the overdrive department straight from the amp, it is much much more useable and pleasing to the ear than Fender typical. Anyway, I definitely suggest people swap tubes out with the best quality they can afford over the stock stuff, especially if the tubes in it are old. Sometimes it will make dramatic changes with the characteristics of your amp. Bob in Germany
I have this amp and absolutely love it. I use Tung-sol power tubes, a Mesa (Russian) 12AT7 in V1, and stock 12AX7s in V2 and V3. Overall, it makes a big difference in tone, to my ears. Lots more clean headroom, and it overpowers all the Line6 Spiders out there at jam nights. I use mine in conjunction with a Fender Frontman 212R as a slave amp and get a really cool AC30 tone out of it. Can't ask for more than that!
I am putting the Tung-sol in the V1 slot today (the Tung-sol Darrell used in the video) I swapped out the stock 70/80 speaker with a Celestion Gold 8ohm after listening to a variety of speaker comparisons. I’m loving this amp right now.
Thats why I love your channel, I always learn something
Just to let you know - Speakers...tried a Vintage 30 and a Celestion “A-type” speaker ...liked something about the stock Vineland 70/80 the best. I know it sounds weird but I guess it’s voiced for that amp. The story on these amps is that it stared as a Laney club series and had a few upgrade. (They actually took the musician complaints into consideration). The original had a crappy reverb unit. The reverb tank in it now is the same used in a Blues Jr. So if you do some reading on forums don’t go down that road and replace it...it is a decent reverb tank.
Splitting hairs, stock seemed just as good.
lol....not even close 7:15
Yep, that's what is is. In the band playing interaction you even won't hear any difference... So what?.
TANTRUMGASM I need some of what you’re smoking
I have a pretty good ear and the difference in tone is negligible; the difference in volume is noticeable, but not glaring.
Yep - the difference is much thiner that I thought it to be... I have a good ear, and absolutely trips on musical gear's tone and stuff, yet here the impact is quite minor, maybe even insignificant in the context of a band. New strings, on the other hand...
Darrell, another GREAT Video! Did the same experiment in my Monoprice (already had the Tubes kicking around), and found similar results. Went one step further, swapped out the speaker for a Celestion Brit Greenback (also already had). This made a bigger difference both with the standard tubes on the amp and more so with the upgraded Russian tubes. Was surprised the amount of difference heard with a better speaker between the tube sets.
Would I go out and purchase tubes and a speaker worth almost twice the price of the amp to do this? NO! But if anyone has a "spare set" of tubes and better speaker kicking around, it is well worth trying. Love the tones I'm getting from this little Monoprice Now.
The motivation for even attempting the experiment in the first place? Read on a forum about a gigging Blues Musician in Nashville that had purchase one of these as a "back-up" amp after his Fender crashed during a performance one night. It was cheap enough to take as an extra and would work in a pinch. Then his Fender blew to a point it wasn't worth fixing, so he swapped the tubes and speaker. Was planning using the Monoprice for a while till he decided what new amp he really wanted to buy. Ended up the Lil MP grew on him, liked the idea of being able to drag and use an inexpensive amp in small venues without worry of damage or theft. Over a year later of multiple gigs a week, apparently it's still working.
Funny, I followed you all the way to the results, where I absolutely would change out those Chinese power tubes. In fact I've done so in mine but put in some vintage Russian tubes (1970s) that make the amp so sweet. To my ear the stock power tubes sound tinny in clean mode and the Russian tubes smooth out that tone.
This. Stock tubes unpleasant to listen to. Makes me cringe. Surprised that the new tubes made it pleasant to listen to. Gets that sweet tube sound. Prob a small diff on paper, but it crosses the line from unpleasant to pleasant to me. Prob easier to hear in real life.
Glad you finally made this one. Ive been waiting for someone to do it. Thanks Buddy!
Once again, well done Darrell. The sound differences are so subtle that they really just underline what a great value that Monoprice amp represents!
Very clear difference. I'm seriously contemplating buying this amp and switching out the one tube. Thnx!
Can you do a comparison between this tube amp with stock tubes vs a comparably priced solid state for those of us who are unfamiliar with the direct sound difference?
TUBE AMP CRANKED HITS YOU IN THE CHEST AND RUMBLES YOUR SOUL SOLIDSTATE JUST POKES YOUR EARS 40 YRS EXP
@@freddycookjr.2164 No need to shout there, old chap. I say it's a fairly good idea to do just what LazyGamer suggests, as not everyone of us has your (fred cook's) extended experience.
I would like to hear that comparison too. after market tubes sounded only slightly better. Maybe it is a RUclips compression think keeping me from appreciating the difference.
@@freddycookjr.2164 I disagree. It's great to gig with tube amps if you can afford the hassles - I've had bassmans, boogies, a Vox or two, a couple Ampegs and a Marshall.. All were unreliable and expensive to deal with - often costing me more than the gig paid. I had to carry spare tubes...and a spare amp (a solid state amp). I finally gave up and went to full-on solid state relatively cheap Peavey two-channel amps - had an LA 400 and a couple of bandits... they were cheap to buy, sounded great both clean and dirty, and never cost another dime to operate. Would I record with them? No. But for bar gigs and the like - good enough.
@@HBSuccess that sucks you've had bad luck with tubes. My dad just gave me his old silvertone guitar with amp built into the case and the original tubes still sound great. He also has old fender and ampeg amps with original tubes and they all still sound amazing.
That was awesome! I have upgraded Celestion speakers in my 3 tube combo amps. That alone made a big difference for the better. I am now going to change out the tubes in all 3. Excellent information about where the tubes are actually made.
"better" is in the ear of the beholder ; changing any tube will alter the tone slightly ; but once you are accustomed to it .. you won't be able to tell the difference
Bad tubes are just bad tubes.. Quality control is the main issue with bad tubes
I honestly was not expecting to hear any difference but the stock tubes were definitely thinner sounding. Wild.
I tried several different sets in my Monoprice & didn't hear a meaningful difference.
Try some American made tubes from the seventies or earlier. Japanese tubes from radio shack from the seventies are also much better than Soviet or China junk.... And they will last for a long long time
I put a tung-sol balanced-triode 12ax7 in an inexpensive Vox vt40 as well as a Celestion G10 gold. Amazing difference as the preamp tube is the only tube in the amp. Why spend half the cost of the amp to replace 2 elements? My other option is my two 100 watt Marshall’s I have running in stereo (read: Not wife friendly volumes during a pandemic & those need to be pushing air to sound decent). The swap out produced nice sound out of a digital modeling practice amp. I have quite a few guitars since I’ve been buying them since the 70s. Suhr guitars are currently what I am playing, the difference was extremely noticeable on the Modern, a bit less on the thornbuckers in the Custom- T. Enjoy your channel 👍👍
I really only noticed a bit of a difference in volume. I retubed mine, more for reliability since I gig with it.
Retubed mine first day with full set of tung sols, gold plated terminals on the preamps. Yes immediately less tinny buzz and warmer louder tone. Haven't fed it through the variac yet tho.... ;o)
I have two early top loaders..
Changing the speaker to a good Celestion (dumping the cheap-o celestion)
makes the Amp. Come alive
Very interesting video.
V1 swap with the JJs in power section for sure. The V1 swap was very well rounded.
Very good test Daz. The differences were there, but they WERE subtle! MORE improvement would be made by a speaker replacement.
MORE difference valve-wise might be IF, you replace all the pres with low gain valves, like AU or AT7s!
Also, wouldn't the bias need some adjustment when you changed those EL84s? As far as I know this amp is Class A/B not class A cathode biased.
Cheers!
Yes, I also thought you needed to adjust the bias when changing tubes?
That's what I thought as different valves will always have a slightly different current draw, and it would need to be readjusted to the correct spec.
I have played out with this amp stock. Didn't even need to mic the amp its plenty loud enough. I run all my pedals through the front and it sounded fantastic.
I actually own one of those amps. I wanted something inexpensive that I can play in my apartment as well in a band. It has served me very well. I like the clean tones. I did switch all the tubes since I read in the forums that it would improve the tone quality.
I ended up switching the power tubes with JJ EL844 tubes which give you a great sounding power tube break up at 25% lower volume. They have that pumping compression at lower volumes which sounds great. I'll switch them back to standard EL84's if I'm going to play in a band setting. And I used 3 matched JJ 12AX7 for the preamp. I think that amp sounds a LOT better than the tones I hear from any sub $1000 fender! And I'm only about $375 in!
If you want an amp you can play in a band and also play in your apartment you can't beat this amp! Especially after putting in some decent tubes. I bought mine used and the previous owner switched the speaker to a much better sounding Celestian so I didn't need to make that purchase. Now I have a great sounding amp! And I didn't need to give up an arm, or a leg! 😁
Great video! On studio speakers, the change in all the tubes made a very significant difference. Just changing the output speakers seemed to make a big difference the more gain applied.
Did you have to adjust the bias when changing the tubes? Thank you! Great video as usual
I expect that if you buy a handful of new JJ 12AX7 tubes and swap them each into the first preamp position that you might notice that are arent all the same.
I just picked up one of these used for $75 and am thinking of building a solid wood cabinet as a fun little project 😬. What do you think about that?
Go for it Bro!
Do it!
Make sure you use use (very) seasoned wood, as in pine off of an old house or something, else probabaly better off with a good quality baltic birch ply.
I would go w Baltic birch myself.
Those tube holder things are revolutionary. I have a blues jr and the tubes get loose with vibration. Great idea!!!
Very good comparison, and I knew right away in that first clip which was which. The V1 change seems to help clean more than with gain, but have to admit it sounded better all the way around with the brand name tubes. It is a question of whether it is worth it to one to do it..just like you said. Glad you did this one, and thank you for it.
The answer to all of this is really to just put a good distortion pedal like an old Pro CO. RAT, and maybe a Boss 9 Band EQ pedal, and possibly a Boss DD2 delay pedal, with those 3 I can make most any decent amp sound unbelievable. That's the real ticket right there. 🤘 - Kevin Venture
Clear Adventure EarthQuaker Devices Pallisades, EarthQuaker Avalanche run. You’ll scoff at Boss pedals after owning these.
@@weezerman2002 Cool, I will check them out! But I only mentioned a EQ and Delay from Boss. The Pro Company RAT is the bomb distortion!! If you can find an older original. 🤘
When I read "expensive tubes" I thought vintage Mullards or maybe JANs.
$20 tung-sol is more than a $5 -10 chinese tube I suppose. Vintage Mullard NOS 12AX7's are what $200 a tube now? Crazy. I've tried a lot of vintage tubes that were more reasonably priced(under $50) including the "Japanese Mullards" from the 70's made with the same design and equipment as the Blackburns. I have some GE JAN 5751's.The new production Tung-Sols sound as good as any IMO. They are a great go-to for quality, price and availability. My favorite vintage tubes in my collection are Tungsram's and the Beijing 12AX7's(with the white stars) from the 70's. There was a site on ebay a couple years ago that had the Beijing's 2 for $25 and they were the real thing with the square foil getter and the date stamp(mine were 4-78). I stocked up on them.
@@creamwobbly I can guarantee you, that vintage Mullards or US JAN weren't made in North Korea, China, Russia or even Slovakia.
@@creamwobbly Not sure if troll or stupid.
That was a great comparison that provided excellent, fair and informed advice on the worth of the possible tube mods. Thanks very much!
I previously watched this series last year and subsequently decided to buy this amp. I just changed the power tubes for JJ's. The main reason for changing them was looking at the stock no-name tubes, one of them was glowing much hotter than the other one. Upon digging into this amp's schematics, I noticed a small pot to adjust the bias. Bias is supposed to be set at -12.5v. When I checked mine, it showed -7.41v. Changing the tubes and biasing to the proper specs made a huge improvement to the overall tone, and added a lot of headroom to mine anyway as it was breaking up at a very low gain setting. So basically very little clean tones at half volume..
How did you check this ? I'd love to know more. I'd also like to know why my first model had a nice but humming reverb, and the replacement has just a quieter reverb (and quieter noise too)
That was a really well done test; it was controlled so that we can actually hear the differences that the tubes make. I bought this amp because I am trying to get more into electric guitar (up until recently I've just been an acoustic player) and I think the tone is really nice. I certainly don't feel the need to get new tubes.
Now this is funny because the tube in the V1 slot on my amp died and I ended up replacing it with a Tung-Sol. I gotta say, I think I notice the change and am enjoying it a bit... Or maybe I'm just happy my amp is back and rockin.
Also to potentially disagree with my previous comment again, I think it's possible that the difference in tone will be more noticeable and more important in a less controlled environment. When you are listening to the sound as you play and making slight changes to your playing to make the noise you want to hear, you may end up playing into your setup a bit more. This how it would be in a "real life" situation anyway. I know I'm always listening to my playing and trying to make it sound a little better...
I'm glad you said there was only a slight difference... My old ears could not hear any difference and I attributed it to MY COMPUTER MONITOR speakers not the tubes. You being right there with the amp would certainly be more accurate. That little Stage Right amp is just amazing for the price (sounds great in your other tests, too). I think a lot of folks have written below and agreed with your conclusion.
Very interesting ! And yeah, I'm inclined to wait to replace tubes until they fail. I have a Blackstar HT-5R that was making some nasty noises. I pulled the tubes to get the numbers. Ordered some tubes. Put the original tubes back in and the nasty noises were gone. New tubes are in the drawer.
My son just put some JJ'S in his Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 18 and man does it sound sweet and i just put a whole new set of JJ'S in my Blackstar HT Stage 60 and it made it smoother and tighter because with the Ruby's it had it was kind of bassy.
rule of thumb - in a combo changing speaker has the greatest impact
That’s the case regardless if it’s a combo or not. Your head is still plugged into a speaker cab that has a speaker in it.
Thanks for following up on the tube change. I think that I would opt for the change. The Number One Valve ( I dig the nomenclature) change was notable, and I appreciate the extra effort you took. Great job, just bought a Fender Junior Tweed, but this is tempting based on price alone. Thanks.
another thing you can do for a massive tone difference (if your not worried about overdrive) is to switch out the 12ax7's with 12au7's. you will loose some of the overdrive but youll get a warmer tone.
Likewise with 12ay7's, gives you loads more clean headroom rather than it breaking up past 2 on the gain knob
On the 2nd test, I preferred the sound of the stock tubes.
the new tubes definitely sound better. the small things like, getting the best pick, the best strings, the right pickup, the right tubes, and the preferred voiced amp all add up like plug ins in a mixing chain
I honestly don't notice much difference other than more volume with the new tubes. It is slightly thicker but not much
Great review and great information! Did not realize that tubes are really just made in one of three locations. Very informative! Also, really noticeable difference between the stock and the aftermarket tubes.
I did the slot 1 change and live I can hear the difference. Slightly but yes it’s better. Thanks for showing us the way to improve. I’m hopping after the speaker breaks in it will just keep getting better. 👍🏻😎
These tone comparisons are interesting, but I'd also be interested to hear if you could nullify the difference between 2 slightly different tubes, pickups or amp heads just by tweaking an EQ pedal. In real-life scenarios, you take the equipment you've got and play with it until it sounds right, so it'd be cool to see how similar a sound you can get with different gear.
What a cool little amp, and great demo. The new tubes do make a difference, more saturation and more defined distortion. I agree you don’t really need to switch tubes, and would make a great first amp for someone starting out... I’ve certainly paid the same amount for amps in the past that didn’t sound half as good.
Did you have to re-bias the amp. Might be good to teach what that means? Great video as always! I think I want to get this amp now.
Very informative video again Darrell! As expected from you. Keep it up and more powers!
Atleast I didn’t wasted 11min of my life on something else 🤣
Great video! Cheaper amps have circuitry and speakers that do not pick up the nuances of good tubes. So many variables also. I have a few guitars that sound killer on ANY amp and I have some that don't. So many variables in play from the guitar, cord, amp, speakers. Me personally owning many tube amps is the tubes are the last thing to mod as having everything in front of the tubes tweaked first allows you to really hear the nuances of different tubes. Party On!
Hey Darrel. Love your videos. What are your opinions on the Boss Katana? I’m thinking of getting one 🤷♂️
I have the boss katana 50 model and it is probably one of the best solid state amps I have ever played. If you are a beginner and trying to find your tone it’s probably going to be awesome do to its versatility, however if you have already found your style of playing I would go to a guitar Center and play many different amps. Like I said I love this amp and would recommend it 100%. I hope you end up getting it, cheers.
Ryan Dane I agree with you. I have some really expensive boutique amps. Does the Katana sound as good? No, but it comes pretty close for the price and ease of solid state. It’s a fantastic choice for beginners who are getting a taste of their style or someone who wants a practice amp that won’t burn up their NOS tubes.
Thank you Darrell for being honest about this. I was just about to make a comment saying that I couldn't hear much difference between the tubes (and I'm listening through Mackie CR5 speakers) but your conclusion was correct. It's just not worth the expense for the very small change in tone. You might like to change the speaker. That would definitely make a difference.
Are you supposed to check the bias when changing the power tubes
Great video, Darrell! In most cases, I think that the last preamp tube (the phase inverter) actually makes more of a difference to the sound than the first - it's driven by all the preceding gain, and is actually responsible for most of what's usually thought to be power tube distortion. You may notice a bigger change in tone by swapping out V3.
These amps do not ship well because of cheap particle board and wood screws. UPS trashed two, but I kept and repaired the second one. A pre-amp section AX7 fried . . . took it to an amp tech and all connections were good. He replaced the tubes (electroharmonix) and balanced the EL84's, and the amp is 100% better than stock. It is a good intro into tube amps. Very nice clean tones.
I honestly could not tell the difference between any tube changes. keep it stock.
Really?, We're talking small changes. More fuzz, less fuzz even when the break up is very similar
you must be kidding ? 7:15 lol
I prefer the sound of the stock tubes for the gain but the aftermarket for clean tones in this video
Yes Electro-Harmonix does have their own factory. Might do a little research before saying that kind of thing.
You might want to take your own advice, Electro-Harmonix tubes are made by New Sensor, an American owned company, in the Xpo-Pul factory (Reflektor) in Saratov, Russia. They also make Sovtek, Svetlana and reissues of Mullard and Tung-Sol tubes.
@@troll1441 New Sensor Corporation is owned by Mike Matthews. The company is American based but manufactures Tung-Sol, Sovktek, etc. in Russia.
Thanks for repeating pretty much what I said as a correction, you make trolling easy.
@@troll1441 New Senor makes some very good tubes IMO. The most drastic tube change I ever made was putting a svetlana 12ax7 in V1. That tube had a sound that was way darker than any tube I've ever heard before. Probably a love it or hate it tube depending on what tone your looking for. Unfortunately they don't make that tube anymore. I guess most didn't like it.
A gold-pin Tung Sol in V1 of my Peavey 6505+ improved my tone slightly, less shrill and more definition. They do the same for high gain Marshall amps as well, a little less fuzz. However the speaker is THE most dominate part of the your sound. Want less treble shrill? Get Eminence Texas Heat speakers. Want more brightness? Get Swamp Thangs or Celestion 75's.
I own both the 5w and 15w. I like the Super 8 in the 5w but the Seventy 80 in the 15w didn't have the efficiency I wanted so replaced with a Mojotone BV25. I replaced all the Chinese triodes with JJ, have Genalex Gold Lion EL84s and a NOS Sylvania 6L6GT in the 5w. Have a Ted Weber 10" AlNiCo I'm building a simple extension cabinet for. Still out far less $ than one boutique amp and except for the extension cab [got a good deal on the speaker and can use it with either amp] it doesn't take up extra space in the house. My tastes are different, your mileage may vary, void where prohibited, but unlike the amps whose circuits they emulate it doesn't seem like a sin to mod them nor a waste of money to do tubes and speakers [within reason]. 🤘😎🤘
after hearing this, im about to go inspect my fender blues deluxe to see what tubes it has. the new tubes you used sound amazing.
A lot of amps have cathode followers but don't have elevated heater voltage...which doesn't normally matter, but if you use cheap preamp tubes with spiral wound filaments, you'll exceed the heater to cathode voltage of those tubes, and get arcing within the tube, or just general nastiness. Other than that...the difference isn't something you can't make up with a turn of a few knobs, or swapping out some cheap parts
I've got a gaggle of amps including some rare vintage ADA combos (Quad Tube 150M & Viper), a Marshall VS8280 combo, a Peavey Classic 50 212 combo, and Nady GTH-100 head & 4x12 half stack, but the more I look at this thing the more I want one. The price point is enticing, the build looks decent, and what I've heard sounds pretty good. I really like the handy wattage cut feature. I did notice an improvement in tone and volume response when you changed the tubes out. To some people it might not make that big a difference but the difference was definitely there. I wonder what it would sound like with a Cream or Green - Back speaker change. Cheers!
I definitely picked the aftermarket tubes every time. Kind of surprising. I didn’t think it would be that noticeable or that much nicer.
Nice comparison. Before you got to your conclusion, I was thinking the same thing. I didn't notice an appreciable difference, certainly not enough to justify the cost. I'm probably going to buy this amp, in large part due to your showcase of it. The test of upgraded tubes, if anything, seems to point out how solid the amp is stock.
Honestly I couldn't tell the difference in the stock vs modded "small" tubes. But the power amp tube mod was extremely clear to me.
what happened to "crucially important" tube biasing? wow
Its cathode bias.... it automatically self adjusts bias.
The biasing is really only applicable when changing to a different tube designs. In this amp if he had gone from the 12ax7 tube to a 12at7 or a 12ay7 where the gain output is drastically different requiring different input voltages.
I actually preferred the stock tubes for a clean sound, but the replacement tubes did provide extra solidity that hadn't even seemed missing with the stock tubes -- until it was there.
Changing just V1 worked great at tuning the clean sound, without having a lot of effect as the gain was cranked. Changing the power tubes did the reverse -- it had little effect on the clean sound, and was most obvious at high gain. I think that is the value in this -- not "do aftermarket tubes sound better?", but "if I want to change this particular thing, what tube or tubes should I look at changing?"
I actually preferred the stock tubes in every test. Go figure.
Perfect conclusion… very very helpful vide, thanks again 👍👍👍
I just ordered this amp from monoprice and i have $750 worth of vintage 12ax7 12ay7 and 5581 tubes to tube roll with including a few RCA long black plate 12ax7 tubes !
V1 i will try for tone the RCA and for added gain stage and in V2 i might use a Phillips long plate 12ax7 or a Tungsram 12ax7 !
I all ways use a sovtek 12ax7LPS balanced triodes for the phase inverter in V3 !
You need the PI tube to not distort itself but pass the grit & gain along too the power tubes !
The Sovtek is the best PI on the planet unless you use a good 12at7 !
I all ready have the tubes needed including many new pairs of EL84 tubes including Sovtek and Ruby tubes and JJ and Genalex Gold Lion tubes !
You must not sacrifice tone for a few dollars saved , thats the problem with the Fender Blues Jr. where it was built cheap as possible and the input plastic jack breaks and needs many mods to use it cranked up !
I didn’t realise new tubes made such a big difference. May think of upgrading them when I get a new amp now.
I picked up an Orange OR15. The JJs in it made the amp metall-y and served up a lot of distortion. I swapped out the pres with nos mullards and they cut the gain dramatically. Now it's more like a warm overdrive instead of that diode clipping tone. So, swapping out the pres can make a huge difference.
Thank you Darrell. I liked the modded sound of the amp much more. Cheers!