Hey Uncle Atom I just wanted to let you know I decided to try painting my own minis myself because of you. I started in June and have finally got my first fully done and painted 2000 points for 40k. I’m really happy I’ve joined this hobby. Now I just have to win a game.... Grey Knights are hard to win with.
@@tomikuzmanov9683 and don’t forget the Russians. Their production of just the T-34 was double that of Germany’s entire production of tanks. It’s no coincidence that the phrase, “Quantity has a quality all of it’s own” is attributed to Stalin.
The third factor that intersects with the quality vs quantity conundrum is time. If you can focus on a project for long enough, you can have both! In addition to this is a fourth factor - your hobby budget. If you can afford a high quality figure painter or terrain maker to lighten your load e.g you do the rules, scenarios and terrain but pay someone else to paint the two opposing sides. I’m intending on doing Gettysburg in a couple of years in 6mm scale. I’m going to do the union myself but pay someone to paint up the confederates. A friend is going to make terrain.
Yeah, if you focus on one system and one army you can get a lot done. I have a huge painted army of Team Yankee East Germans because it's the only game I play. But a lot of people can't help but chase the dragons of "new & shiny", "kickstarter FOMO" and "game system Tarzan-ing" and get nothing done and a mountain of grey plastic and unopened boxes.
I love hordes and I think that if you have 50+ Models next to each other the imperfections become less visible. So you dont see the individual anymore but the horde becomes one detailed model.
A "third way", if you will, is to do a "rough and ready" pass on the whole army, so you (and your opponents) can enjoy playing painted. Then you can work through bringing each model up to whatever higher quality standard you choose over time... Or not. It's entirely possible that you'll realize that you don't actually care about that as much as you thought you would once you're enjoying the game. Just, please, do everyone a favor and at least get basecoats and a wash on them. No one wants to play against your lumps of unidentifiable grey plastic.
@@eyaldiskin3665 - Very true... Varnish your minis before you play with them. And always wash them before you start painting again, and before the first time you paint them (i.e., priming) too.
I don’t care. Bring pieces of paper with unit names on them. It’s a damn game! People confusing their sick mental weakness for material possession and collection for the actual game.
@@squattingheads - Hey, there's nothing wrong with that if you both agree to it. But it's not about a "sick mental weakness for material possessions" (You might want to consider how this overly strong reaction reflects on *your* mental health... Lol). Painted figures are simply more engaging for most people. Humans are *highly* visual creatures. So anything that increases the visual stimulation of the game will increase most people's enjoyment. It's the same reason most people don't watch black-and-white movies anymore. The lack of color is a barrier to engagement. In fact, my comment was specifically about bare models (i.e., material possessions) not being what I was interested in, but visually stimulating, and easily identifiable paint jobs. I mean, honestly now that you brought it up, I'd rather someone print out color pictures and stand them on bases with popsicle sticks than show up with a grey hoard. So kindly take your assumptions and misplaced judgement and shove them.
“Art is never finished, only abandoned.” - Leonardo da Vinci. Think about what you want to get out of your hobby (painting, building etc.) and at which point you are happy. These things are supposed to be for fun, not to add more stress.
I'm still really new to the building and painting part of the hobby. I'm not a very artistic person at all, but I decided to try my best to paint my models to the point where I would be happy to see them on the tabletop. I watched a bunch of tutorials and finally jumped in and got the paints out. I've painted two Intercessors and primed a third and I'm really surprised how nicely they came out just from watching the tutorials and taking my time. For me, as long as the base coats are smooth, the highlighting is there and it looks neat then I'm happy with it, it's really surprising how good a model can look with a base coat, shading, and then some edge highlighting.
Who did you watch for tutorials? Im not an artistic person at all and have been trying to watch tutorials as well. Most of them are for people who know or understand what they are talking about though 🤣
@@KillerofGods Honestly the basic "how to paint Ultramarines" on the Warhammer TV channel was what I started on. From there I checked out more advanced ones.
When I used to play Warhammer Fantasy, I'd do quick paint jobs on the rank-and-file miniatures, but then spend a lot more time and energy on the captains/generals/monsters. It was a nice work/reward system. "If I finish this unit of boring stuff, then I get to paint the awesome dragon." It was a system that worked for me at the time.
Yeah, most folks find that quick paint jobs on the ‘rank and file’ and more time spent on the HQ and leaders is the best way to go with bigger armies. Thanks for watching!
I use the following method to balance out the quality vs quantity thing: 1. build and prime the models 2. play a game with em. 3. ask myself how that looked..."dang, those primed models looked pretty ugly 4. paint the models with base colors 5. play a game with em. 6. Ask myself how that looked..."hmm...that was ok, but didn't look great" 7. Add some shading and highlighting 8. play a game with em 9. Ask myself how that looked...."better...but the leader needs a little pop." 10. continue to repeat.
A video that certainly resonates with me! I'm primarily a Bolt Action gamer and this strikes a fine balance as far as the number of figures on the table top goes. I used to be a horribly slow painter, I would paint individuals rather than squads/sections and would often paint on the sprue. The net result was nothing ever got finished. Adjusting my mindset and painting approach was reallllllly kind of difficult to do and accepting that individual masterpieces were not possible was a habit I had to shake. I now aim for quantity to a tabletop standard and play a lot more games. There is also the satisfaction in looking at the four large armies I have completed having shifted my painting mindset :)
Thank you, much appreciated! For me, planning on what process/technique and the limited palette drives how I set about painting a unit to a table top standard. It involved breaking some painting habits and telling myself that perfection on every single model was not something I could feasibly do if I wanted to get my figures to the table top as soon as possible. Definitely a happy medium :)
I love that you keep mentioning Mercs even if it's not in production anymore! That's one of the best games I've ever played! 2.0 rules are still available for download on the website though so, proxy!
I'm really glad , when I first saw the title of this video I thought he meant the quality of models you buy, as in getting more cheap models or spending more to buy highly detailed models. I'm the kinda guy who though I have my favorite units/ models usually find I want to play with all the cool little toys, and though I enjoy the painting a lot I don't usually get over obsessed. I do take much much much more time on my main dude/general/lord/ whatever you want to call him or her though so thats a great way to strike a happy balance being able to scrutinize over a couple models while getting my others table ready. I will admit though on all my sisters of battle I try have spent a ton more time on each model but my girls deserve to be loved and cherished !!!
Same here. It also taught me to not breathe for long periods and also not to flick my cigarette ash in the paint pot by accident. Serves me right for painting directly from the pot. Both were a long time ago now though, poor health stopped both painting and smoking. I still really enjoy seeing the videos people put up because although I always used to enjoy a game or two, my main focus was always the painting and to a lesser extent, terrain building. It fascinates me what people use sometimes to make various terrain features, especially when it's so well done you don't see it until it's pointed out.
The balance between detail and assembly line is exactly what attracted me to wanting to play A Song of Ice and Fire. I'm new to minis and gaming, and have been a fan of the books for a long time. Knowing I can paint an army in an assembly line and make them "similar" seems efficient. Then there are the characters that I can sit down and try different techniques and really make them look good. It's all about balance
I recently started playing Black Powder, a Napoleonic rank-and-file game by Warlord, and have run into this issue. However, even though the number of miniatures for an army is higher than most games, they are much easier to assemble and faster to paint in general. Since painting minis is a kind of stress relief for me, it’s very nice to be able to “turn off” my brain when I paint and just run on autopilot. It’s almost like knitting or other similar crafts.
Thanks for this video! I have got back into painting my 900+ Mini Figs 15mm French Napoleonic army after a 35 year break. I have been watching a heap of videos of the amazing painting techniques and quality that these painters are producing on each figure (it seems they are often painting more detailed 28mm figures). It is a bit disheartening when I know I couldn't produce that quality, but it was reassuring to hear you talk about the trade-off of quality versus quantity and helps me set my expectations.
I think it's about what gives you joy. Blackjack Legacy said recently that he gets the joy from seeing everything painted on the shelf over having every detail picked out and multi layered. I am more from that place. Some people are stressed by having so much unpainted miniatures around and should probably focus on the base quality to get the quantity. Other people are happy to have the pile of grey plastic and paint half a dozen minis per year. So inthink it's about figuring out what brings you the joy and Go from there
Having painted 100 Mongolian cavalry and 160 infantry for Kings of War/Age of Fantasy: Regiments, all I can say is I have had to cut a lot of corners in the paint job. I can see the appeal of skirmish games, allows people to show off their skills. I will admit to being very fond of Warhammer Underworlds, the small warbands can be painted in a few hours... which is a refreshing change. For me it is the spectacle of seeing painted armies facing off against each other on a table with nice terrain.
when i paint i just go for a smooth coat on every color and as few mistakes as i can get. but if i say a models is done and i find a spot i messed up i usually just leave it. only if it is a super obvious mistake do i fix them.
@@grantfoster8833 lucky for me I know someone that decided to pull the trigger on dark uprising, so a gang and a copy of the rules should do me. Which my wallet is pretty happy about! Any idea which rule book I need, there seems to be a few!
@@alexwilliams6022 Oh nice... Well as for rules I would recommend you pick up the gangs of the underhive book which will give you enough to get going with which ever gang you choose and also add in things like bounty hunters. But I would hold off on the other rule books for now, just until we know which ones will be compatible with dark uprising and how ...
I love the playing but I love the painting. What I've come to do is play skirmish, particularly Kill Team because I also like the sorth of story telling and the personalization of my squad. But for the painting, I like doing 1/72 model kits, will take me weeks or a months to finish one, but I don't need it "next week for a game" so I can take my time.
I tend to gravitate to skirmish games more because of the model count. I really like the painting aspect of the hobby but my problem is treating every model as a character while painting. Lately I have been trying to get a bit more buantity over quality. Buying an airbrush helped.
"Luckily" I have a bit of a physical ceiling with my dexterity and fine motor skills, so I'm never going to do super detailed miniatures, so it's mostly quantity for me, but I still like to try to hone skills that work at the batch painting level that look good for the tabletop.
It is funny, your videos come out and talk to my heart. I have been juggling this exact process. I have an AOS army sitting in boxes waiting and waiting and waiting, yet my skirmish games are the ones I finish. I am thinking about detail painting my generals and quantity painting my minions.
i find painting to a certain quality (playable) then over time revisiting models and slowly updating them. sometimes my painting skills are not good enough so i hang off before updating
I went to a tournament one time that had an included painting competition, you had to enter a UNIT into the painting competition. Most folks entered a "Unit" of a single model, I entered a unit of 31 models. The judges told me "We thought you were going to score very high because its an impressive looking unit, but we found some mistakes when we looked at the individual troopers." Hell yeah man, there are 31 of them!
Big 40k games is why i play. Building, painting and polishing my army over time and put it on my shelf looks so good... they look even better on the battlefield.
I’ve gone completely ‘hermit ‘ wargaming- basically I started to collect/build/paint several different factions-forces and I’ll do everything solo- Not that I don’t like playing games with other players, but my schedule, transportation limitations & location are much easier to go solo. (D.Featherstone has several books on solo wargaming that have helped me with this new ‘style’ of gaming)
I've also been playing alone lately, sincerely I think you lose a lot of the gaming experience playing that way, but it helps a lot to refine the strategy and tactics I usually play alone to improve those two aspects
- YES you’re absolutely correct. There is ‘something’ missing in solo gameplay. However I usually try tactics I would like but not necessarily use against an opponent. There are small tricks to make solo games a bit more interesting (ex.- give your ‘preferred ‘ army less points than its opponents ) and if you have a friend you can do a play by mail game as well....
Thanks for this episode. I've been stuck in mass quality purgatory for too long, and didn't pull my head out and realise that I should just get them done quickly.
I got into A Song of Ice & Fire after the Kickstarter as the Night’s Watch came out. I loved the TV series so have the key characters to look forward too as they’re released. Why Night’s Watch, many reasons but with a 50pt force having circa 70 models I wanted a quick scheme. That scheme is black undercoat, dry brush leather, fur, hair etc, pick out the metal and skin, nuln oil all over and then a winter base. The snow effect and winter flock really gives a nice contrast - 20min a figure, job done. Oh yes and the GW Blood for the Blood god technical paint brings the swords to life. It’s table standard but I feel really good about the army and that’s the point. Also, Uncle Atom, I know you’re life’s a little bent out of shape at the moment but that boat’ll right itself given time. Oh yes and I’m lucky enough to share a hobby room with Katie but my side sounds very like your ‘glory-hole’, so I’ll be inspired to sort out my side as you share your attempts at yours😉
Great vid, again. Could you do a showcase of your models? Maybe the kill teams you have? Or is there a ‘Pachow’ I’ve missed? Thanks. Hope everything is well with your mom.
I’ve thought about this for awhile. I might be able to try a couple in the new year, and put them up on the Sundays opposite of the Every Other Sunday show. We’ll see. Thanks for watching!
Perfect timing for this. I need some advice... I am DMing Against the Giants and have 20+ giants to paint. What is a quick BASE I can do for a large number of HUGE models? The bases are really big - so they will stand out if I leave them bare.
I decided to take on a Seraphon Army from a friend so now I have 40 Saurus Warriors, 40 skinks and 20 Knights. It was a lot hobby wise to take on but I am getting through it little by little. I paint to my standard no anyone else's. It is good enough when I say it is good enough. Generally I paint a few steps above your standard 3-4 color tabletop standard but as long as I'm happy with it I couldn't car less. I do what I need to do in order to fight my war against grey plastic. :)
I primarily go for quality with my warhammer models, but I like skaven and goblins. I get around the horde style by getting a bunch of giant monsters. Means that each model I finish gets me that much closer to finishing the army. Most people running the same faction would use the points I do invest in hundreds of rats. My armies end up pretty big, but with fewer models to paint than most others in that faction.
I find a mix of both is good, a very fluffy and well painted and highly converted killteam to switch to when painting a horse of IG is too tedious is a very good way of keeping interest and practice.
Star Wars Legion just introduced droids, and I’ve got a simple paint scheme that doesn’t sacrifice quality for them, so I think there’s some wiggle room depending on what you’re playing if you have to choose between quantity and quality.
Good advice. I love Skaven and Gloomspite Gitz. But I don't have tons of time. So for the Skaven I run Clan Skryre and my Skaven 1.5k point army has less models than a game of Warcry. For the GSGs my 120 Moonclan are all contrast and some leadbelcher. Warcry and Necromunda I'm making my highest detailed stuff.
I still love rank and flank and large model count games but I just can't handle the grind of painting large armies anymore. I recently abandoned a Naps project in 28mm because I find the uniforms really frustrating to paint. I managed to get through 24 Hanovarians before throwing in the towel. The whole army was only about 80 models but I just can't be arsed anymore. I'm moving more towards the really low model model count stuff like Arcworlde and Burrows & Badgers. I still play ASoIaF but I've come to terms with never painting any of the bits, though I did make some terrain. Not that that's relevant.
My problem for the last 30+ years is Promising myself to only do one step beyond tabletop quality on some of my armies and choose 2 "Showcase" armies to paint. And inevitably I can't put the model down unless I do a 3-4 steps past tabletop paintjob. I have a huge backlog of models and its demoralizing at times.
It's not just about playing one game. If you're prepared to compromise a bit on quality you can get forces together for multiple games rather than just one. And let's face it when you're looking at things from 3 feet away (normal distance when you're looking at a games table) you often can't notice the difference between decently painted figures and well painted ones. Bases are more important. .
Speaking of quality vs quantity. I've spent the last 2 years painting about 250 minis (all of those cheap reaper minis) for my DnD group. I learned A LOT about painting on those cheap minis, the project forces me to think in terms of quantity but every once in a while I take a week to focus on one big cool bad guy and really do my best for quality. I feel like I'm finally not half horrible at painting and I want to expand into tabletop Wargaming All of that said, I'm a 30 year old dude working 68 hr work weeks who would LOVE to get into table top wargaming, but my RPG friends don't seem to keen on it unfortunately. This may seem like a silly question but do you have any suggestions for a 30 year old dude looking to find a group of tabletop gamers. I suppose I should just go to my local game store or perhaps I should just invest in a few gateway games up front and try to be an ambassador for the social groups I am already apart of?
Maybe pick up a start collecting box that you like the look of the models of and head into your local gw or warhammer store and ask what night their 40k night is? I've also been looking to get back into the hobby, havent played since 5th edition, luckily I have 2 friends who are interested in learning as well. Good luck!
Both of those things you mention in your comment are good ideas. Also, I’d tell you to check out the GameFor app (for iOS or Android) to find groups and players in your area. Good luck, and thanks for watching!
I've been batch painting and have been for awhile because I batch painted, stripped the minis, and started over with a different SM chapter lol. The worst part is I've yet to play the game so decided to just batch paint the bare minimum so I can play and then I'll go back later and make the models look better.
A friend of mine has a great theory for new players on this - get into AoS or 40K to start, and buy a box of orks. He said it for a few reasons. 1) Your first models will look like crap. There is no way to gain experience painting except to fuck up a few models. But you know what army always looks like crap, to the point that the best armies are meant to look the most crappy and tattered? Orks! 2) You can throw lots of different colours on an Ork army, and thereby learn how and why some colours are tougher to paint than others. It also means that as you're starting out, you'll build a bigger base of paint colours, and it's easier to venture into different colours when you get tired of slapping on Ultramarines Blue for the 20th mini. 3) Orks will give you a variety of textures. Skin, fabric, metal plate, glass bits, heat-scorched bits, rusty bits, choppy bits, shoot bits... you'll start figuring out different techniques for different textured surfaces. 4) You'll figure out the quality versus quantity thing very quickly. How long did it take to get through that first box of orks? Did you blast through them to a state you're happy with in a weekend and enjoy the process? Horde armies are probably within your reach! Did you fiddle for weeks on end on every little detail, and kept going back because you still weren't happy after the fourth shade of highlight? You might want to consider lower model-count forces. 5) The GW games are probably the most widespread tabletop games there are, and it'll be easier to find a community. With things like Warcry and Kill-Team, you can play small-scale games, and have the option to build up to 3000+ point Apocalypse games if that's what you decide that you want.
Depends. Are you a painter/modeller who occasionally puts those models on the table, or a gamer who paints/and models to get to play? For the former, quality, for the latter, quantity.
I generally play bigger games, and usually I will assembly line 'good enough' paint an army, then once I have a functional force. I slow down and start adding models I take my time with painting them much slower.
I think another important thing is money. You can get a kill team you can play competitively for less than $100 that’s just not possible in full scale 40k.
I am very sad there aren't GW models of the same size of Napoleonic models (what are they, 1:70-something?), and the closest thing to those is Warmaster line, which, though, offers only line of infantry and column of cavalry (and apparently has been discontinued too? Not sure). I would definitely go for that scale, I like it: large enough to have SOME details, small enough to be quick to paint and be able to be represented on a relatively large scale campaign, field battle, or dungeon raid.
Not only are skirmish games great for people who want to paint things nicely, they're great for people who prefer more nuance and granularity, and they often provide a more RPG-like experience.
I realise it has been a while but I only just watched this one. Quantity, there are no specific synonyms beginning with B, but you could always go Simpsons and use Bigness v Quality.
I like to get my first army for a game system ready as fast as I can so I can play and spend more time on subsequent armies. Having said that I still spend too much time painting. :D I mainly got into wargaming for the painting so I like to have nice looking models but it's nice to be able to play the actual game and I'm a big fan of sub assemblies.
And what about this approach? I'm very new to the hobby. So far I have 4 Primaris Marines painted (2 to go) to start playing Kill Team. When I'll start playing Kill Team I'll probably be buying new models from time to time so I can have different configurations and that kind of stuff. And with that approach with some time (like couple of years) I'll be able to have a big army consisting of high quality (subjectively) models. In conclusion: you can make a big army with nicely painted models if you're able to use the models you already painted in smaller games. This way it won't feel like waiting for your army to finally be done because you could use the models you already have and the wait would be easier.
Who do you think learns faster: the quantity person or the quality person? I like to paint 3-15 minis a week as it gives me more opportunities to practice, but I wonder if not seeking quality limits my growth. Thoughts?
Do you have any thoughts about RPGs where you want a large and diverse collection of monsters and NPCs, but only a few are on the table at any given time?
Quality is the desire, but it is subjective, my drive is to play with fully painted armies. I only play a few friends and we only started painting and playing a couple of years ago, but in that time I have painted up two GW battleboards and enough terrain to populate both, 4K of Death Guard, 4K of Necrons and 2K of World eaters and they have not managed to finish 2K of their armies (SM, Guard and Orks). They paint to a much better quality and my style is dirty and gritty, at least for DG and WE. But on the table at arms length they look great, they even look OK a little closer. They will not win any awards but they fill my painted tables with painted minis which is more than my friends can do grrrrr ....... and they beat me :( But most of all I like what I produce :) PS hope your mum gets well soon.
FYI, if you like Mantic's Walking Dead zombies, Mantic will have a Zombie Apocalypse bundle for their Black Friday sale (which starts sometime today). I think it is a bundle of 100 zombies.
For me quality depends on the grandeur of the figure. Battleline troops get 30 minutes a piece, and I'm trying to maximize efficiency to leave time for a few pretty details. A unit of five models worth 160 points might get an hour each. Nagash gets 40 hours, no compromises. A good rule is to set a time budget for 1000 points. Mine is about 30 hours. Sit down and split it up between the units. Make a plan, stick to it.
Orks tend to work with quantity if you have enough that you don't look too close but if you have a few say for a smaller army, definately take your time on then.
I really have issue with all the focus o. Having to have you’re army painted before you put it on the table. I have multiple armies for multiple game systems but I pick and choose what I paint because I just don’t have to time or space to consistently paint. I also enjoy playing more then the hobby so it’s gray plastic brigade or Primer special forces to the fight
I lean toward skirmish games because I can't, for the life of me, sacrifice quality for quantity. I'm only an okay painter and it takes me FOREVER to paint a unit. (Most recently, I painted a 7-man Space Wolves Kill Team and it took a year). I am trying to learn a balance between time and quality; that there is "good" and "good enough." I have made it a rule to only play painted models. This is mostly to provide incentive to get things painted. If I didn't have this rule, I would never get anything painted, even though I really enjoy the hobby aspect of wargaming.
Total coincidence, but I decided to watch this video while painting the last of my own Mantic Plague zombies without knowing what would be touched upon within it!
For me, it has always been quantity, I started out playing warhammer 40k epic and I loved fielding massive armies between 4 000 and 10 000 points (and a single time I was actually in a single battle where there was a total of three armies for a total of 60 000 (tyrannid versus space marines versus orcs) it was messy and glorious. sadly I no longer have my epic models (most got lost when I moved at one point and I gave the rest away). If I am fielding an army anything less than 100 models is just not worth playing for me.
Once I played with a scaven guy, and his rats were quickly painted and looked very bland. He could paint better, because I saw some well painted minis at his army, but he told me, that no way he will paint hundreds of similarly looking rats. Now I jumped to Star Wars legion and I have hordes of B1. I will paint them all well, but I kinda understood this guy. It is a lot of effort to make a horde army individuals look good
I paint to the best of my ability whether it's a dreadnought or a pox walker! However I collect big armies! No wonder I'm so slow lol. Luckily I don't paint just for the sake of getting models on the table.
Depends a bit on what you're collecting imo, how many units there are and how complex your HQ/Support are. If you have like 100 guardsmen nobody's going to care if they're lacking a bit more detail than what all the character's and tanks have.
You’re right, but I come across so many folks who have huge horde armies and think they need to paint every single model to an incredibly high quality, and then they never see any progress. Thanks for watching!
luke from lukes' aps had an interesting take on quantity vs. quality for a kings of war multibase: he did the bare minimum to bring his unit to tabletop standard (using conrtrast paints) and then AFTER basing he adds details to those parts you can actually see within the formation (i.e. front row, heads of the second row, that dude's spear that's sticking out in the fourth row, etc).
I have to disagree slightly here. Getting good at speed/batch painting will both make you quicker at basecoating and (assuming that you aren't just slopping paint on and letting the wash clean up the slips) give you lots of practice "staying inside of the lines". The first will improve your quality indirectly, by leaving more time to do a better job on all the layers on top of the base coat. And the second will both do that (by cutting down on touch ups) and, obviously, putting the paint only where you want it is kind of part of the definition of quality. A lot of getting better at anything is just doing it a lot of times. And just trying to put paint on models both efficiently and precisely a bunch of times will make you a more efficient and precise painter even if you don't do all of the fancy techniques on top of that on most/any of them.
@@JCPRuckus it's good we all have our own preferred ways of doing things.. I said mine, you said yours. I see what your saying, but I don't batch paint, as I prefer to focus on one at a time, so each within a colour scheme as an individual mini. If I played as well as paint, I probably would batch paint, but knowing myself, I would probably still stick with what I feel suits me and I prefer. Happy painting to all, whatever the preference.
@@CupofTea101 - I mean, I don't really think what I said qualifies as a "preference". It just is a fact that most of getting better at something is just a lot of repetition. I wasn't stating how I prefer to do things. I was explaining how spending some time going for quantity can, in fact, make someone a better painter in certain ways... Which you had (incorrectly) implied wasn't a thing that can happen. Now, since you don't play, quantity is not a concern for you at all. So you don't have to worry about balancing quantity vs quality, or getting pieces done in any particular time frame. So, you are correct in saying that what I'm saying doesn't apply to your specific situation. But that doesn't mean that "lots of repetition is a big part of getting better at a thing" stops being a fact, which is what the way you chose to frame it implied. I mean, do you. If you just paint because you enjoy painting, then good for you (and I say that honestly and without sarcasm). But there's a difference between my observation not being relative to you because of your specific preferences, which is a valid point that you did not actually make... And you saying that my observation of a real phenomenon is a preference, which is the strange thing that you actually wrote in your reply. Basically, I wasn't encouraging you to change your process. I was letting anyone else who read your comment know that you weren't considering all of the ways in which the "average hobbyist" can improve the quality of their output.
@@JCPRuckus I was mentioning preference in general not related directly with what you had said, because I'm sure people have a preference in the way they paint.. be it quality or quantity...Or am I such a noobie, that this is not the case? Don't get me wrong, I have batched painted, but It makes me loss interest somewhat, mainly cause I got death stranding to play.
@@CupofTea101 - Oh, well since you replied directly to me, I naturally assumed that it was supposed to be directly related to what I said... Or am I such a noobie to conversation, that this is not the case? Just real quick, let's recap... 1. You said that you focus solely on quality. 2. I replied, "But you can also improve your quality in certain ways just doing a lot of painting, in other words through sheer quantity." 3. Instead of saying, "Yes, that could work for some people who have a lot of models to get through. But since I only paint models I absolutely want to paint for pleasure, that wouldn't work for me", or something similar. You replied with something that sounded more like, "Well, that's just your opinion, man". But it wasn't an opinion. It was a fact. It was just a fact that wasn't relevant to you in particular. Which is fine. But just because a technique isn't applicable to you, doesn't mean that the fact that it can work becomes an opinion, which is what your description of it as a "preference" made it sound like. Now, I hope that we're good. I just want to make sure that no one who reads this is confused about whether or not just painting a lot of models can result in higher quality even if quality is not the main focus of the painter. Because it can. That is a demonstrable fact. And even if someone prefers not to do that, it doesn't stop being a demonstrable fact. It is just a fact that you prefer not to take advantage of... Which is cool... Again, do you... 👍🏽 Now that we hopefully understand each other... Enjoy the hobby however you like, and happy painting to you, sir.
I must be a weird person, because I have Tyranids and a gaunt can take 6 hours. I don't really plan on playing though. I do it for the collection. Maybe someday I'll play a game, but that's going to be a while, lol. I'm very happy with my crazy looking Nids and if someday I do play (I still need to learn the nuances of the rules but I have a general idea of what I need), man... that's going to be a sight.
Oh, yeah, as a Nid player, I can tell you painting eyes is a waste of time unless it's a monsterous unit. XD My original scheme compared to the gaunts I paint now is almost pitiful, but I also didn't like the fact that a box of gaunts would take me over a month, and you really can't tell -that- much.
Me: I want a high quality low model count army
also me: Hey let's start a horde of tyranids
Just use rippers and Big boys, ez pz.
Same, except Astra Militarum.
_Wailing internally_
When it comes to quality it’s so easy to forget...there is only one opinion that matters. The right quality is the one that makes you happy.
No no no no you have to meet my standard in order to be approved. 😜
@@Geerladenlad The amount of people that act like this is astounding!
@@emilped Huh?
@@Geerladenlad
Aren't you being sarcastic?
@@emilped I was about to ask you the same thing.
Hey Uncle Atom I just wanted to let you know I decided to try painting my own minis myself because of you. I started in June and have finally got my first fully done and painted 2000 points for 40k. I’m really happy I’ve joined this hobby. Now I just have to win a game.... Grey Knights are hard to win with.
Great to hear it, I’m glad you finished your first army! Have fun and thanks for watching!
Nice!
I love my Grey Knights. We're getting some important point reductions in Chapter Approved!
The age old question of quantity vs buality
@@tomikuzmanov9683 and don’t forget the Russians. Their production of just the T-34 was double that of Germany’s entire production of tanks. It’s no coincidence that the phrase, “Quantity has a quality all of it’s own” is attributed to Stalin.
The third factor that intersects with the quality vs quantity conundrum is time. If you can focus on a project for long enough, you can have both! In addition to this is a fourth factor - your hobby budget. If you can afford a high quality figure painter or terrain maker to lighten your load e.g you do the rules, scenarios and terrain but pay someone else to paint the two opposing sides. I’m intending on doing Gettysburg in a couple of years in 6mm scale. I’m going to do the union myself but pay someone to paint up the confederates. A friend is going to make terrain.
Yeah, if you focus on one system and one army you can get a lot done. I have a huge painted army of Team Yankee East Germans because it's the only game I play.
But a lot of people can't help but chase the dragons of "new & shiny", "kickstarter FOMO" and "game system Tarzan-ing" and get nothing done and a mountain of grey plastic and unopened boxes.
Good luck with the project. I do ancients in 6mm on 60mm bases they look superb as a unit but take a very different approach to painting.
I love hordes and I think that if you have 50+ Models next to each other the imperfections become less visible. So you dont see the individual anymore but the horde becomes one detailed model.
Very true, also having one perfectly painted model in an army of grey/primed models makes the paint job look less.
"In this video, I'm going to talk to you about Quality vs.... Bwantity."
A "third way", if you will, is to do a "rough and ready" pass on the whole army, so you (and your opponents) can enjoy playing painted. Then you can work through bringing each model up to whatever higher quality standard you choose over time... Or not. It's entirely possible that you'll realize that you don't actually care about that as much as you thought you would once you're enjoying the game.
Just, please, do everyone a favor and at least get basecoats and a wash on them. No one wants to play against your lumps of unidentifiable grey plastic.
also make sure you don't paint over dust and dirt that got on the mini from playing with it
@@eyaldiskin3665 - Very true... Varnish your minis before you play with them. And always wash them before you start painting again, and before the first time you paint them (i.e., priming) too.
I don’t care. Bring pieces of paper with unit names on them. It’s a damn game!
People confusing their sick mental weakness for material possession and collection for the actual game.
@@squattingheads - Hey, there's nothing wrong with that if you both agree to it. But it's not about a "sick mental weakness for material possessions" (You might want to consider how this overly strong reaction reflects on *your* mental health... Lol).
Painted figures are simply more engaging for most people. Humans are *highly* visual creatures. So anything that increases the visual stimulation of the game will increase most people's enjoyment. It's the same reason most people don't watch black-and-white movies anymore. The lack of color is a barrier to engagement.
In fact, my comment was specifically about bare models (i.e., material possessions) not being what I was interested in, but visually stimulating, and easily identifiable paint jobs. I mean, honestly now that you brought it up, I'd rather someone print out color pictures and stand them on bases with popsicle sticks than show up with a grey hoard. So kindly take your assumptions and misplaced judgement and shove them.
@@squattingheads Tabletop simulator.
“Art is never finished, only abandoned.” - Leonardo da Vinci. Think about what you want to get out of your hobby (painting, building etc.) and at which point you are happy. These things are supposed to be for fun, not to add more stress.
Glad to see you are still able to produce videos for us. Thank you!!!
The greatest rewards come from waking up at 3 AM
*Patrick*
OH BOY 3 AM
I'm still really new to the building and painting part of the hobby. I'm not a very artistic person at all, but I decided to try my best to paint my models to the point where I would be happy to see them on the tabletop. I watched a bunch of tutorials and finally jumped in and got the paints out. I've painted two Intercessors and primed a third and I'm really surprised how nicely they came out just from watching the tutorials and taking my time. For me, as long as the base coats are smooth, the highlighting is there and it looks neat then I'm happy with it, it's really surprising how good a model can look with a base coat, shading, and then some edge highlighting.
Awesome dude!
Who did you watch for tutorials? Im not an artistic person at all and have been trying to watch tutorials as well.
Most of them are for people who know or understand what they are talking about though 🤣
@@KillerofGods Honestly the basic "how to paint Ultramarines" on the Warhammer TV channel was what I started on. From there I checked out more advanced ones.
When I used to play Warhammer Fantasy, I'd do quick paint jobs on the rank-and-file miniatures, but then spend a lot more time and energy on the captains/generals/monsters. It was a nice work/reward system. "If I finish this unit of boring stuff, then I get to paint the awesome dragon." It was a system that worked for me at the time.
Yeah, most folks find that quick paint jobs on the ‘rank and file’ and more time spent on the HQ and leaders is the best way to go with bigger armies. Thanks for watching!
I use the following method to balance out the quality vs quantity thing:
1. build and prime the models
2. play a game with em.
3. ask myself how that looked..."dang, those primed models looked pretty ugly
4. paint the models with base colors
5. play a game with em.
6. Ask myself how that looked..."hmm...that was ok, but didn't look great"
7. Add some shading and highlighting
8. play a game with em
9. Ask myself how that looked...."better...but the leader needs a little pop."
10. continue to repeat.
Solid.
A video that certainly resonates with me! I'm primarily a Bolt Action gamer and this strikes a fine balance as far as the number of figures on the table top goes. I used to be a horribly slow painter, I would paint individuals rather than squads/sections and would often paint on the sprue. The net result was nothing ever got finished. Adjusting my mindset and painting approach was reallllllly kind of difficult to do and accepting that individual masterpieces were not possible was a habit I had to shake. I now aim for quantity to a tabletop standard and play a lot more games. There is also the satisfaction in looking at the four large armies I have completed having shifted my painting mindset :)
I’m glad to hear you’ve found a balance. Thanks for watching!
Thank you, much appreciated! For me, planning on what process/technique and the limited palette drives how I set about painting a unit to a table top standard. It involved breaking some painting habits and telling myself that perfection on every single model was not something I could feasibly do if I wanted to get my figures to the table top as soon as possible. Definitely a happy medium :)
6 models in a Death Guard force? Nurgle is displeased. He will continue to love you if you add another model to your force.
I know, but I just don’t have the points for it. And, I don’t like poxwalkers. I’m gonna take another run at a list soon. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions Poxwalkers are the worst, but you don't feel too bad when they die.
Me: I'm more of quality dude
Also me: I play Skaven
I feel you
This sounds like Slaneshi level massochism
Me as a greentide ork player
Custodes & Imperial Knights. LOL
@@deleroast lltp
If you pizza when you should have french fried your going to have a bad time
I love that you keep mentioning Mercs even if it's not in production anymore! That's one of the best games I've ever played! 2.0 rules are still available for download on the website though so, proxy!
I'm really glad , when I first saw the title of this video I thought he meant the quality of models you buy, as in getting more cheap models or spending more to buy highly detailed models.
I'm the kinda guy who though I have my favorite units/ models usually find I want to play with all the cool little toys, and though I enjoy the painting a lot I don't usually get over obsessed. I do take much much much more time on my main dude/general/lord/ whatever you want to call him or her though so thats a great way to strike a happy balance being able to scrutinize over a couple models while getting my others table ready. I will admit though on all my sisters of battle I try have spent a ton more time on each model but my girls deserve to be loved and cherished !!!
For me its quality. Im sticking to "no rush" rule since this is my hobby. Actually thanks to painting i learned to be patient.
Same here.
It also taught me to not breathe for long periods and also not to flick my cigarette ash in the paint pot by accident.
Serves me right for painting directly from the pot.
Both were a long time ago now though, poor health stopped both painting and smoking.
I still really enjoy seeing the videos people put up because although I always used to enjoy a game or two, my main focus was always the painting and to a lesser extent, terrain building.
It fascinates me what people use sometimes to make various terrain features, especially when it's so well done you don't see it until it's pointed out.
The balance between detail and assembly line is exactly what attracted me to wanting to play A Song of Ice and Fire. I'm new to minis and gaming, and have been a fan of the books for a long time. Knowing I can paint an army in an assembly line and make them "similar" seems efficient. Then there are the characters that I can sit down and try different techniques and really make them look good. It's all about balance
I recently started playing Black Powder, a Napoleonic rank-and-file game by Warlord, and have run into this issue. However, even though the number of miniatures for an army is higher than most games, they are much easier to assemble and faster to paint in general. Since painting minis is a kind of stress relief for me, it’s very nice to be able to “turn off” my brain when I paint and just run on autopilot. It’s almost like knitting or other similar crafts.
Thanks for this video! I have got back into painting my 900+ Mini Figs 15mm French Napoleonic army after a 35 year break. I have been watching a heap of videos of the amazing painting techniques and quality that these painters are producing on each figure (it seems they are often painting more detailed 28mm figures). It is a bit disheartening when I know I couldn't produce that quality, but it was reassuring to hear you talk about the trade-off of quality versus quantity and helps me set my expectations.
I think it's about what gives you joy. Blackjack Legacy said recently that he gets the joy from seeing everything painted on the shelf over having every detail picked out and multi layered. I am more from that place. Some people are stressed by having so much unpainted miniatures around and should probably focus on the base quality to get the quantity. Other people are happy to have the pile of grey plastic and paint half a dozen minis per year. So inthink it's about figuring out what brings you the joy and Go from there
What are those dwarves on the thumbnail? Look so good in those colours.
wanna know too
They’re from a game called Conquest from Parabellum Games. I took that photo of their display at a game convention. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for spending time on the video. Hope your mom is healing up well.
With all this time and no play i'll definitely be pumping all my time into the quality of my large quantity of necrons
Having painted 100 Mongolian cavalry and 160 infantry for Kings of War/Age of Fantasy: Regiments, all I can say is I have had to cut a lot of corners in the paint job. I can see the appeal of skirmish games, allows people to show off their skills. I will admit to being very fond of Warhammer Underworlds, the small warbands can be painted in a few hours... which is a refreshing change.
For me it is the spectacle of seeing painted armies facing off against each other on a table with nice terrain.
when i paint i just go for a smooth coat on every color and as few mistakes as i can get. but if i say a models is done and i find a spot i messed up i usually just leave it. only if it is a super obvious mistake do i fix them.
This is exactly why I'm getting into necromunda! Another great vid at the right time 🤘🏼👍🏼
I hope you bought underhive and not that insanely priced dark uprising.
@@grantfoster8833 lucky for me I know someone that decided to pull the trigger on dark uprising, so a gang and a copy of the rules should do me. Which my wallet is pretty happy about! Any idea which rule book I need, there seems to be a few!
@@alexwilliams6022 Oh nice... Well as for rules I would recommend you pick up the gangs of the underhive book which will give you enough to get going with which ever gang you choose and also add in things like bounty hunters. But I would hold off on the other rule books for now, just until we know which ones will be compatible with dark uprising and how ...
@@grantfoster8833 cheers mate! Gone for the delaque gang just building them up now.
I love the playing but I love the painting.
What I've come to do is play skirmish, particularly Kill Team because I also like the sorth of story telling and the personalization of my squad.
But for the painting, I like doing 1/72 model kits, will take me weeks or a months to finish one, but I don't need it "next week for a game" so I can take my time.
I tend to gravitate to skirmish games more because of the model count. I really like the painting aspect of the hobby but my problem is treating every model as a character while painting. Lately I have been trying to get a bit more buantity over quality. Buying an airbrush helped.
"Luckily" I have a bit of a physical ceiling with my dexterity and fine motor skills, so I'm never going to do super detailed miniatures, so it's mostly quantity for me, but I still like to try to hone skills that work at the batch painting level that look good for the tabletop.
Zen and the Art of Miniature Painting... Excellent as ever TM!
Couldn't agree more. Keep being awesome and thanks for the video!
It is funny, your videos come out and talk to my heart. I have been juggling this exact process. I have an AOS army sitting in boxes waiting and waiting and waiting, yet my skirmish games are the ones I finish. I am thinking about detail painting my generals and quantity painting my minions.
Yes!! Love the MERCS shout out
i find painting to a certain quality (playable) then over time revisiting models and slowly updating them. sometimes my painting skills are not good enough so i hang off before updating
I just like licking paint, and you have helped me feel good about that Adam. Thank you.
I went to a tournament one time that had an included painting competition, you had to enter a UNIT into the painting competition.
Most folks entered a "Unit" of a single model, I entered a unit of 31 models. The judges told me "We thought you were going to score very high because its an impressive looking unit, but we found some mistakes when we looked at the individual troopers."
Hell yeah man, there are 31 of them!
Big 40k games is why i play. Building, painting and polishing my army over time and put it on my shelf looks so good... they look even better on the battlefield.
I’ve gone completely ‘hermit ‘ wargaming- basically I started to collect/build/paint several different factions-forces and I’ll do everything solo-
Not that I don’t like playing games with other players, but my schedule, transportation limitations & location are much easier to go solo. (D.Featherstone has several books on solo wargaming that have helped me with this new ‘style’ of gaming)
I've also been playing alone lately, sincerely I think you lose a lot of the gaming experience playing that way, but it helps a lot to refine the strategy and tactics I usually play alone to improve those two aspects
- YES you’re absolutely correct. There is ‘something’ missing in solo gameplay. However I usually try tactics I would like but not necessarily use against an opponent. There are small tricks to make solo games a bit more interesting (ex.- give your ‘preferred ‘ army less points than its opponents ) and if you have a friend you can do a play by mail game as well....
Thanks for this episode. I've been stuck in mass quality purgatory for too long, and didn't pull my head out and realise that I should just get them done quickly.
I got into A Song of Ice & Fire after the Kickstarter as the Night’s Watch came out. I loved the TV series so have the key characters to look forward too as they’re released.
Why Night’s Watch, many reasons but with a 50pt force having circa 70 models I wanted a quick scheme. That scheme is black undercoat, dry brush leather, fur, hair etc, pick out the metal and skin, nuln oil all over and then a winter base. The snow effect and winter flock really gives a nice contrast - 20min a figure, job done.
Oh yes and the GW Blood for the Blood god technical paint brings the swords to life.
It’s table standard but I feel really good about the army and that’s the point.
Also, Uncle Atom, I know you’re life’s a little bent out of shape at the moment but that boat’ll right itself given time. Oh yes and I’m lucky enough to share a hobby room with Katie but my side sounds very like your ‘glory-hole’, so I’ll be inspired to sort out my side as you share your attempts at yours😉
Great vid, again. Could you do a showcase of your models? Maybe the kill teams you have? Or is there a ‘Pachow’ I’ve missed? Thanks. Hope everything is well with your mom.
I’ve thought about this for awhile. I might be able to try a couple in the new year, and put them up on the Sundays opposite of the Every Other Sunday show. We’ll see. Thanks for watching!
Flames of War, "you're not painting eyes" ? Does that mean I shouldn't have drilled the barrels?
Perfect timing for this. I need some advice... I am DMing Against the Giants and have 20+ giants to paint. What is a quick BASE I can do for a large number of HUGE models? The bases are really big - so they will stand out if I leave them bare.
Sand/grit for the base. Brown base coat, brown or black wash, tan drybrush
Great video. Thanks for covering this!
I decided to take on a Seraphon Army from a friend so now I have 40 Saurus Warriors, 40 skinks and 20 Knights. It was a lot hobby wise to take on but I am getting through it little by little. I paint to my standard no anyone else's. It is good enough when I say it is good enough. Generally I paint a few steps above your standard 3-4 color tabletop standard but as long as I'm happy with it I couldn't car less. I do what I need to do in order to fight my war against grey plastic. :)
I primarily go for quality with my warhammer models, but I like skaven and goblins. I get around the horde style by getting a bunch of giant monsters. Means that each model I finish gets me that much closer to finishing the army.
Most people running the same faction would use the points I do invest in hundreds of rats. My armies end up pretty big, but with fewer models to paint than most others in that faction.
Where may I get those plague marines/guardsmen, tried looking for them on Mantic's webpage without luck?
I find a mix of both is good, a very fluffy and well painted and highly converted killteam to switch to when painting a horse of IG is too tedious is a very good way of keeping interest and practice.
Star Wars Legion just introduced droids, and I’ve got a simple paint scheme that doesn’t sacrifice quality for them, so I think there’s some wiggle room depending on what you’re playing if you have to choose between quantity and quality.
Good advice. I love Skaven and Gloomspite Gitz. But I don't have tons of time. So for the Skaven I run Clan Skryre and my Skaven 1.5k point army has less models than a game of Warcry. For the GSGs my 120 Moonclan are all contrast and some leadbelcher.
Warcry and Necromunda I'm making my highest detailed stuff.
I still love rank and flank and large model count games but I just can't handle the grind of painting large armies anymore. I recently abandoned a Naps project in 28mm because I find the uniforms really frustrating to paint. I managed to get through 24 Hanovarians before throwing in the towel. The whole army was only about 80 models but I just can't be arsed anymore.
I'm moving more towards the really low model model count stuff like Arcworlde and Burrows & Badgers. I still play ASoIaF but I've come to terms with never painting any of the bits, though I did make some terrain. Not that that's relevant.
My problem for the last 30+ years is Promising myself to only do one step beyond tabletop quality on some of my armies and choose 2 "Showcase" armies to paint. And inevitably I can't put the model down unless I do a 3-4 steps past tabletop paintjob. I have a huge backlog of models and its demoralizing at times.
It's not just about playing one game. If you're prepared to compromise a bit on quality you can get forces together for multiple games rather than just one. And let's face it when you're looking at things from 3 feet away (normal distance when you're looking at a games table) you often can't notice the difference between decently painted figures and well painted ones. Bases are more important. .
Speaking of quality vs quantity. I've spent the last 2 years painting about 250 minis (all of those cheap reaper minis) for my DnD group. I learned A LOT about painting on those cheap minis, the project forces me to think in terms of quantity but every once in a while I take a week to focus on one big cool bad guy and really do my best for quality. I feel like I'm finally not half horrible at painting and I want to expand into tabletop Wargaming
All of that said, I'm a 30 year old dude working 68 hr work weeks who would LOVE to get into table top wargaming, but my RPG friends don't seem to keen on it unfortunately. This may seem like a silly question but do you have any suggestions for a 30 year old dude looking to find a group of tabletop gamers. I suppose I should just go to my local game store or perhaps I should just invest in a few gateway games up front and try to be an ambassador for the social groups I am already apart of?
Maybe pick up a start collecting box that you like the look of the models of and head into your local gw or warhammer store and ask what night their 40k night is? I've also been looking to get back into the hobby, havent played since 5th edition, luckily I have 2 friends who are interested in learning as well. Good luck!
Both of those things you mention in your comment are good ideas. Also, I’d tell you to check out the GameFor app (for iOS or Android) to find groups and players in your area. Good luck, and thanks for watching!
I've been batch painting and have been for awhile because I batch painted, stripped the minis, and started over with a different SM chapter lol. The worst part is I've yet to play the game so decided to just batch paint the bare minimum so I can play and then I'll go back later and make the models look better.
A friend of mine has a great theory for new players on this - get into AoS or 40K to start, and buy a box of orks. He said it for a few reasons.
1) Your first models will look like crap. There is no way to gain experience painting except to fuck up a few models. But you know what army always looks like crap, to the point that the best armies are meant to look the most crappy and tattered? Orks!
2) You can throw lots of different colours on an Ork army, and thereby learn how and why some colours are tougher to paint than others. It also means that as you're starting out, you'll build a bigger base of paint colours, and it's easier to venture into different colours when you get tired of slapping on Ultramarines Blue for the 20th mini.
3) Orks will give you a variety of textures. Skin, fabric, metal plate, glass bits, heat-scorched bits, rusty bits, choppy bits, shoot bits... you'll start figuring out different techniques for different textured surfaces.
4) You'll figure out the quality versus quantity thing very quickly. How long did it take to get through that first box of orks? Did you blast through them to a state you're happy with in a weekend and enjoy the process? Horde armies are probably within your reach! Did you fiddle for weeks on end on every little detail, and kept going back because you still weren't happy after the fourth shade of highlight? You might want to consider lower model-count forces.
5) The GW games are probably the most widespread tabletop games there are, and it'll be easier to find a community. With things like Warcry and Kill-Team, you can play small-scale games, and have the option to build up to 3000+ point Apocalypse games if that's what you decide that you want.
Depends. Are you a painter/modeller who occasionally puts those models on the table, or a gamer who paints/and models to get to play? For the former, quality, for the latter, quantity.
I pretty new to taking time to paint my models for tabletop but I put my quality vs. quantity to size and excitement.
Love your wargaming videos!!! 💯💯💯
Were those dwarves your own?
If so, where did you get them from?
I generally play bigger games, and usually I will assembly line 'good enough' paint an army, then once I have a functional force. I slow down and start adding models I take my time with painting them much slower.
I think another important thing is money. You can get a kill team you can play competitively for less than $100 that’s just not possible in full scale 40k.
I am very sad there aren't GW models of the same size of Napoleonic models (what are they, 1:70-something?), and the closest thing to those is Warmaster line, which, though, offers only line of infantry and column of cavalry (and apparently has been discontinued too? Not sure).
I would definitely go for that scale, I like it: large enough to have SOME details, small enough to be quick to paint and be able to be represented on a relatively large scale campaign, field battle, or dungeon raid.
Not only are skirmish games great for people who want to paint things nicely, they're great for people who prefer more nuance and granularity, and they often provide a more RPG-like experience.
I realise it has been a while but I only just watched this one. Quantity, there are no specific synonyms beginning with B, but you could always go Simpsons and use Bigness v Quality.
I like to get my first army for a game system ready as fast as I can so I can play and spend more time on subsequent armies. Having said that I still spend too much time painting. :D
I mainly got into wargaming for the painting so I like to have nice looking models but it's nice to be able to play the actual game and I'm a big fan of sub assemblies.
Where is the dwarven infantry in the thumbnail from?
They’re from a game called Conquest from Parabellum Games. I took that photo of their display at a game convention. Thanks for watching!
And what about this approach? I'm very new to the hobby. So far I have 4 Primaris Marines painted (2 to go) to start playing Kill Team. When I'll start playing Kill Team I'll probably be buying new models from time to time so I can have different configurations and that kind of stuff.
And with that approach with some time (like couple of years) I'll be able to have a big army consisting of high quality (subjectively) models.
In conclusion: you can make a big army with nicely painted models if you're able to use the models you already painted in smaller games. This way it won't feel like waiting for your army to finally be done because you could use the models you already have and the wait would be easier.
Who do you think learns faster: the quantity person or the quality person? I like to paint 3-15 minis a week as it gives me more opportunities to practice, but I wonder if not seeking quality limits my growth. Thoughts?
Do you have any thoughts about RPGs where you want a large and diverse collection of monsters and NPCs, but only a few are on the table at any given time?
Quality is the desire, but it is subjective, my drive is to play with fully painted armies. I only play a few friends and we only started painting and playing a couple of years ago, but in that time I have painted up two GW battleboards and enough terrain to populate both, 4K of Death Guard, 4K of Necrons and 2K of World eaters and they have not managed to finish 2K of their armies (SM, Guard and Orks). They paint to a much better quality and my style is dirty and gritty, at least for DG and WE. But on the table at arms length they look great, they even look OK a little closer. They will not win any awards but they fill my painted tables with painted minis which is more than my friends can do grrrrr ....... and they beat me :(
But most of all I like what I produce :)
PS hope your mum gets well soon.
FYI, if you like Mantic's Walking Dead zombies, Mantic will have a Zombie Apocalypse bundle for their Black Friday sale (which starts sometime today). I think it is a bundle of 100 zombies.
For me quality depends on the grandeur of the figure. Battleline troops get 30 minutes a piece, and I'm trying to maximize efficiency to leave time for a few pretty details. A unit of five models worth 160 points might get an hour each. Nagash gets 40 hours, no compromises.
A good rule is to set a time budget for 1000 points. Mine is about 30 hours. Sit down and split it up between the units. Make a plan, stick to it.
Orks tend to work with quantity if you have enough that you don't look too close but if you have a few say for a smaller army, definately take your time on then.
Both have their place, imho, depending on what you wanna do. For myself, I found I cannot do quantity although I love horde armies. :D
Quality on special characters and quantity on the rest can be a very good effort as well.
I really have issue with all the focus o. Having to have you’re army painted before you put it on the table. I have multiple armies for multiple game systems but I pick and choose what I paint because I just don’t have to time or space to consistently paint. I also enjoy playing more then the hobby so it’s gray plastic brigade or Primer special forces to the fight
What are the models in the thumbnail?
They’re from a game called Conquest from Parabellum Games. I took that photo of their display at a game convention. Thanks for watching!
I lean toward skirmish games because I can't, for the life of me, sacrifice quality for quantity. I'm only an okay painter and it takes me FOREVER to paint a unit. (Most recently, I painted a 7-man Space Wolves Kill Team and it took a year). I am trying to learn a balance between time and quality; that there is "good" and "good enough."
I have made it a rule to only play painted models. This is mostly to provide incentive to get things painted. If I didn't have this rule, I would never get anything painted, even though I really enjoy the hobby aspect of wargaming.
Total coincidence, but I decided to watch this video while painting the last of my own Mantic Plague zombies without knowing what would be touched upon within it!
R.I.P. MERCS : (
A wise Imperial Guard player said that "quality is a quantity of its own"
this is a real tough dilemma indeed. I have 6000 figs at home with their eyes painted!...
For me, it has always been quantity, I started out playing warhammer 40k epic and I loved fielding massive armies between 4 000 and 10 000 points (and a single time I was actually in a single battle where there was a total of three armies for a total of 60 000 (tyrannid versus space marines versus orcs) it was messy and glorious. sadly I no longer have my epic models (most got lost when I moved at one point and I gave the rest away). If I am fielding an army anything less than 100 models is just not worth playing for me.
Hard to beat a table loaded with colorful Naoleonic 15mm. Oh the pageantry!
I like quantity and quality, over the past 3 years I have been carefully painting over 200 Guardsmen for my 40k army.
Once I played with a scaven guy, and his rats were quickly painted and looked very bland. He could paint better, because I saw some well painted minis at his army, but he told me, that no way he will paint hundreds of similarly looking rats. Now I jumped to Star Wars legion and I have hordes of B1. I will paint them all well, but I kinda understood this guy. It is a lot of effort to make a horde army individuals look good
In my opinion, quality wins, everytime.
I paint to the best of my ability whether it's a dreadnought or a pox walker! However I collect big armies! No wonder I'm so slow lol. Luckily I don't paint just for the sake of getting models on the table.
Depends a bit on what you're collecting imo, how many units there are and how complex your HQ/Support are. If you have like 100 guardsmen nobody's going to care if they're lacking a bit more detail than what all the character's and tanks have.
You’re right, but I come across so many folks who have huge horde armies and think they need to paint every single model to an incredibly high quality, and then they never see any progress. Thanks for watching!
luke from lukes' aps had an interesting take on quantity vs. quality for a kings of war multibase: he did the bare minimum to bring his unit to tabletop standard (using conrtrast paints) and then AFTER basing he adds details to those parts you can actually see within the formation (i.e. front row, heads of the second row, that dude's spear that's sticking out in the fourth row, etc).
I'd rather have 100 figures basecoated and washed than 5 flawlessly painted masterpieces
Quality, as I believe this will improve me as a painter.
Time and effort and the want too do your best.
Quantity not so much.
I have to disagree slightly here. Getting good at speed/batch painting will both make you quicker at basecoating and (assuming that you aren't just slopping paint on and letting the wash clean up the slips) give you lots of practice "staying inside of the lines". The first will improve your quality indirectly, by leaving more time to do a better job on all the layers on top of the base coat. And the second will both do that (by cutting down on touch ups) and, obviously, putting the paint only where you want it is kind of part of the definition of quality.
A lot of getting better at anything is just doing it a lot of times. And just trying to put paint on models both efficiently and precisely a bunch of times will make you a more efficient and precise painter even if you don't do all of the fancy techniques on top of that on most/any of them.
@@JCPRuckus it's good we all have our own preferred ways of doing things.. I said mine, you said yours.
I see what your saying, but I don't batch paint, as I prefer to focus on one at a time, so each within a colour scheme as an individual mini. If I played as well as paint, I probably would batch paint, but knowing myself, I would probably still stick with what I feel suits me and I prefer.
Happy painting to all, whatever the preference.
@@CupofTea101 - I mean, I don't really think what I said qualifies as a "preference". It just is a fact that most of getting better at something is just a lot of repetition. I wasn't stating how I prefer to do things. I was explaining how spending some time going for quantity can, in fact, make someone a better painter in certain ways... Which you had (incorrectly) implied wasn't a thing that can happen.
Now, since you don't play, quantity is not a concern for you at all. So you don't have to worry about balancing quantity vs quality, or getting pieces done in any particular time frame. So, you are correct in saying that what I'm saying doesn't apply to your specific situation. But that doesn't mean that "lots of repetition is a big part of getting better at a thing" stops being a fact, which is what the way you chose to frame it implied.
I mean, do you. If you just paint because you enjoy painting, then good for you (and I say that honestly and without sarcasm). But there's a difference between my observation not being relative to you because of your specific preferences, which is a valid point that you did not actually make... And you saying that my observation of a real phenomenon is a preference, which is the strange thing that you actually wrote in your reply. Basically, I wasn't encouraging you to change your process. I was letting anyone else who read your comment know that you weren't considering all of the ways in which the "average hobbyist" can improve the quality of their output.
@@JCPRuckus I was mentioning preference in general not related directly with what you had said, because I'm sure people have a preference in the way they paint.. be it quality or quantity...Or am I such a noobie, that this is not the case?
Don't get me wrong, I have batched painted, but It makes me loss interest somewhat, mainly cause I got death stranding to play.
@@CupofTea101 - Oh, well since you replied directly to me, I naturally assumed that it was supposed to be directly related to what I said... Or am I such a noobie to conversation, that this is not the case?
Just real quick, let's recap...
1. You said that you focus solely on quality.
2. I replied, "But you can also improve your quality in certain ways just doing a lot of painting, in other words through sheer quantity."
3. Instead of saying, "Yes, that could work for some people who have a lot of models to get through. But since I only paint models I absolutely want to paint for pleasure, that wouldn't work for me", or something similar. You replied with something that sounded more like, "Well, that's just your opinion, man".
But it wasn't an opinion. It was a fact. It was just a fact that wasn't relevant to you in particular. Which is fine. But just because a technique isn't applicable to you, doesn't mean that the fact that it can work becomes an opinion, which is what your description of it as a "preference" made it sound like.
Now, I hope that we're good. I just want to make sure that no one who reads this is confused about whether or not just painting a lot of models can result in higher quality even if quality is not the main focus of the painter. Because it can. That is a demonstrable fact. And even if someone prefers not to do that, it doesn't stop being a demonstrable fact. It is just a fact that you prefer not to take advantage of... Which is cool... Again, do you... 👍🏽
Now that we hopefully understand each other... Enjoy the hobby however you like, and happy painting to you, sir.
I must be a weird person, because I have Tyranids and a gaunt can take 6 hours. I don't really plan on playing though. I do it for the collection. Maybe someday I'll play a game, but that's going to be a while, lol. I'm very happy with my crazy looking Nids and if someday I do play (I still need to learn the nuances of the rules but I have a general idea of what I need), man... that's going to be a sight.
Oh, yeah, as a Nid player, I can tell you painting eyes is a waste of time unless it's a monsterous unit. XD
My original scheme compared to the gaunts I paint now is almost pitiful, but I also didn't like the fact that a box of gaunts would take me over a month, and you really can't tell -that- much.