Intersting that Hurwitz says the 6th is "awful" because most reviews that I have read says it is very good and by far the best performance on this disc. The 4th is probably my fav Shostakovich symphony and the 6th my second fav, so I have been wanting to get this set. Now I am not su sure. I also saw an interview that Gramophone did with him regarding these symphones, and was not impressed. He seemed very shallow to me, and I question if he knows his history.
I was just about to write this! He was given several chances in the interview to demonstrate some deep thinking about the symphonies, but always reverted back to vague generalities and sweeping praise of Shostakovich. I was hoping that age and time would help him connect this assumed "brilliance" to the podium, but I just don't see any signs of that happening anytime soon. I was disappointed.
@@atriponline I completely disagree. The ability to form an opinion and express it verbally is quite important to translating it on the podium or through the instrument. A conductor is an interpreter using theory and history as a few of the many tools to help them craft their interpretation/musical argument. If you don't think that's a requirement, then what's the point of all of this?
@@atriponline The translation of opinions to musical performance happens in a conductor's personal preparation and then through rehearsal with the performers, where they clarify and adjust (verbally and through non-verbal gestures) for accurate interpretation. Is it inaccurate to say that type of translation is a fundamental expectation of the role? Also, the value judgments afterward are essential but not limited to critics, historians, and the like, as we have our own opinions. Yes, we highly regard great mathematicians and scientists for their technical ability and sensibility. However, those achievements are cultivated from instruction or practice of theory and history. It's a forethought or foundation through which their abilities advance their field. My qualm with this conductor is that what I'm not hearing from him in these interviews is also what I'm not hearing on his recordings.
Hi Dave. Thank you for saving me wasting my time listening to this new Makela set of Shostakovich symphonies. I am one of those few Shostakovich advocates lucky enough to have heard Ormandy’s American Premiere performance of Symphony 4, in 1962, just before he and our Philadelphians made their magnificent recording. Despite the piece being new to everyone, and “understandable” to few, Ormandy and the orchestra dug into the piece in a manner that few have done since. These 60+ years later, I have come to regard the Fourth as his greatest symphony, and have tried to hear every concert and recording of this incredible monument. I keep going back to the Ormandy, along with Jarvi and the Royal Scots, mentioned elsewhere in these comments. Regarding Shostakovich Sixth, I believe you spotlighted the major difficulty of pulling off a satisfying performance of this uniquely structured piece - movements 2 and 3 must be each have its own character. I am most drawn to that recording I heard first in my life, Reiner, with the PITTSBURGH SO. (I own the Columbia 78s album, but also have it on a Columbia Masterworks CD reissue.) Unlike most more modern recordings, which treat the presto Finale as a lighthearted romp, Reiner, in this wartime recording, paced the Finale a bit slower, with a bit of Brucknerian Pesante emphasis, turning the end of the movement into a “Soviet citizens happily marching to work” parody. None better.
I'm so glad to hear you discussing *character* in orchestral performances - or the lack thereof. Character is exactly what is missing in so many new recordings these days. Too often we hear efficient, anonymous and disinterested readings. And I wonder over and over, why do they even bother recording it?
I have not heard this set, but I agree it is certainly a big challenge. When Haitink and Janssons conducted their Shostakovich cycle recordings, they weren't just starting out. One conductor who was - Simon Rattle in Birmingham - recorded the 4th, but he was more experienced then than Mäkelä is now, and only concentrated on one symphony - not a clump. As a result, Rattle's Shostakovich 4th is one of his most successful Birmingham recordings.
Hi guys! I really love these 3 symphonies but the way he records it is so off if that makes sense? Especially the last movement of the 5th symphony. The beginning sounds out of place, usually the parts are blended together but the tambir seems to be separate! I was wondering if there are any recordings that are phenomenal for all the Shostakovich symphonies? I’m looking to collecting some and listen to some actual good recordings!
Haven't heard these recordings yet, but, Dave, already they have justified themselves by provoking a major-league, world-class rant by yours truly! Started my day with a huge grin after about 3 minutes. 🙂🙂🙂 Back to Petrenko, et al.
Decca are compressing Mäkelä's recordings. The dynamics in his 2022 Sibelius cycle, his new 2024 Shostakovich and in his Sibelius & Prokofiev concerti is drastically reduced, as if they were going for the car driving or train riding crowd who needs to hear the quiet passages in a noisy environment. The same audio compression is present on the forthcoming Mendelssohn release by Isata Kanneh-Mason. It explains why the climaxes are all squashed.
Hi Dave, when it popped up that it was on a stream, I tried the 4th (at the same time) with 2 of 4 others I have. As an exercise in listening, like a "first round". Mäkelä's was the first out, for being too sugary, and awfully loud recorded (or streamed). Realizing that, the game was over, and went back to Rimsky-Korsakov's Sextet. Great to know I'm not missing a damn thing and just lost 30 minutes of me life (arranging the game was fun). Thanks.
It sucks that some Music Director posts are awarded for non-musical reasons (fundraising or connected). While I'm not familiar with these Shostakovich recordings, I do watch a variety of guest conductors on the Frankfurt Radio Symphony YT channel, and my exposure to Makela was through him conducting Schumann 3. The musicians looked uncomfortable, and the balance and overall performance was not good by FRS standards.
Hey Dave, this comment isn't relevant to this video, but I was wondering if you might consider making a video on how you make the transition from listening to a work as a piece of music Vs also listening to it as a performance of that piece of music. There is (at least for me) a period where when I'm first discovering a work it's impossible to judge the performance because I don't really have an idea of how the piece should sound. Then as I get more familiar with the piece I can better critique a performance, but often I find that by the time I'm familiar with the work enough to appreciate the differences in performances by then I've somewhat tired of the piece itself and want to explore something new. I've found it hard to strike a balance between becoming familiar enough with a work that I can appreciate the differences in performances but not so overly familiar that I'm bored with it. I've wondered how such an experienced listener like yourself manages that transition. Do you not get tired of hearing the umpteenth performance of a work you're extremely familiar with? Do you find it more or equally rewarding critiquing performances as enjoying the music itself? How long does it take you to go from first getting familiar with the piece to being able to critique differences in performances?
That's an interesting suggestion, and I thank you for sharing your own experience. Mine is very different, I think. I don't get bored listening to music that I love, and I love a lot of music! So I don't think I can really speak to your experience. Of course there will always be a learning curve in getting to know unfamiliar works, but I find the whole process enjoyable, if maybe for different reasons.
What works for me is putting some time between “learning” a piece itself and its recordings. I usually first learn the work by only listening to one of the recordings classicstoday says is the reference . Then sort of let it sit for a few weeks. And start listening other recommended or famous recordings after I feel like returning to that piece again.
Drat. I was rather hoping you’d enjoy this at least a bit more than Mäkelä’s previous outings. Shostakovich is my favorite symphonist and I’m a Chicago Symphony Orchestra subscriber, so I have some of my sagging skin in the game. Oh well. I do plan to listen to these recordings on Spotify, and my CSO tix will only be pried from cold, deceased hands, but I’m not excited for the new MD’s arrival in 2027.
Don't worry. The C.S.O. will still blast their way through those works, irrespective of who's waving the stick. I frankly like the C.S.O. more in Bruckner and Shostakovich, than in Mahler. Mahler, I believe, requires a bit more finesse, and more equal balance between the four principle sections of the orchestra: strings, woodwinds, brass and percussion. Everyone is equally important in Mahler.
The marketing is obvious in the cover photos - but what I am curious about is WHO is actually buying this stuff. Is it all an Emperor's New Clothes exercise among the producers, reviewers and radio presenters?
I like how your voice deepens when you lean into that score book. I was impressed when you brought that out. Is it from Petelsons? Why not do a video on your sheet music collection? As far as Makela, beware! He's the flavor of the month and the forces of hype arrayed behind him might decide to come and git ya!
I saw him conduct the Shostakovich 5th at the Edinburgh festival with the Oslo Phil. He was still dragging Yuja Wang around with him (she played 2 Ravel concertos). I remember enjoying it but there was a special circumstance. I was behind the stage about two feet from the timpanist. When he is on full thunder it is a different listening experience. Ironically my previous experience of the symphony was also two feet behind the timpani, this time under Michael Sanderling. I seem to be used to a heavy timpani mix of this symphony. I remember the bang bang bang more than the conductor.
Oh no. Subdued is not the way to play the 4th. If you don't find yourself blasted to the rear of the concert hall by the 3rd movement crescendo, they did it wrong.
Only the mediocre are always at their best! I absolutely love the insane variety & genius that these three challenging Shostakovich symphonies present & it seems as though the ubiquitous combination of technically very good but boring orchestral playing under the emasculated TikTokela who is clearly out of his depth ruins the music once again. I really like these reviews of Dave's because he gets right to the heart of the important musical matters at hand & with scores this time!
The 6th is horrendous, I mean, he doesn't even read the indications.... I have to say that when I hear playings like this one on Spotify I get Too frustrated because in Spotify we don't have an "I don't like" bottom.... I think it would be really necessary... I would love to push it so many times ... Discographic companies are really trying to make everything more and more empty of contempt. Disgusting
Consider how much garbage music is on Spotify, and how much high quality music is on Spotify. A "don't like" button wouldn't serve any algorithmic purpose you; Spotify just classifies EVERYTHING from pre-Baroque to avant-garde serialism as "classical". It's extremely irritating. Their algorithm makes no distinction between Bach and Schoenberg. It's all just "classical" as far as Spotify is concerned. It's nice that they have Hyperion's albums available for streaming now, but you really need to know what you're looking for on Spotify because as a default they'll just endlessly cram low-quality recordings of extremely overplayed pieces and/or overrated performances down your throat. I STILL have Glenn Gould and Lang Lang recordings showing up in my "recommended"; despite never favoriting, "liking", or even listening to a a single recording from either of them on that platform.
I did buy this Mäkelä album, and was (predictably?) underwhelmed. If you're going to do a Shostakovich "triptych", you might as well do 1, 2 & 3 - if only to get the last two duds out of the way! Wigglesworth did just this in his BIS cycle, and very fine it was, too. But 4 5 & 6 are such substantial works in their own right they deserve more attention than they get here.
8:12 There is no piano part in the 3rd movement of the 5th. At the end the celeste plays the theme together with the harp (video editors always focus on the harp and who can blame them). There's both piano and celeste in the 1st movement, piano in the 4th movement, no keyboard in the 2nd movement.
Yep, cymbals are missing in the coda of the Finale in S5. Go figure! I agree that the 6th is dreadful in this set. It's a classic case of loving a work to the detriment of the work itself. There's absolutely no tempo contrast between the 'A' section and the slightly contrasting 'B' section - it's all at the same monotonous, yet breathless tempo. To me, just as with F-X. Roth, Makela is yet another case of parading the Emperor around in his new clothes. I'm hoping the Concertgebouw will come to its senses before buying into this nonsense more than they already have. I imagine we'll eventually get a ubiquitous Makela/Concertgebouw Mahler cycle "Hey, mix and match with your equally indistinguishable Jansons/Concertgebouw Mahler recordings".
Speaking of Shostakovich, I was looking at buying his symphony 8 performed by Andre Previn and the London Symphony Orchestra on DG. Is this considered a good recording of the piece Dave?
For Shostakovich 8, personally; I would recommend either Järvi + Scottish National Orchestra, or Sanderling + Berlin. My personal favorite is the Järvi. Järvi + Scottish National Orchestra also made the best recording of Shostakovich 10 IMO.
Both of Previn's Shostakovich 8s, are certainly worth collecting, if you're a Shostakovich devotee. "Go ahead" is my humble advice! You won't be disappointed.
A little bit "operatic" (even if Previn only conducted his own opera) like some of his other Shostakovich recordings. For example his 2nd mvt, very loud and exaggerating brass section. But I am not saying his recording is bad. Actually pretty amazing, and very special at the very least.
It sounds as if Makela wants to turn Shostakovich into that even more ubiquitous Russian composer Gelyavator Muzak. Where is Cancrizans when you need him?
First time i heard the fourth i felt like i had been sucker punched! It was an aural assault, and It was the Barshai recording. I also have Bychkov’s recording which I find utterly thrilling. Petrenko 100% nails it on Naxos. I will download these recordings. It’s important to know what bad Shostakovich sounds like.
In the finale of the fifth, the timpanist misses a stroke. There are three notes, two are played. And that while the other instruments remain silent. I don't understand why people in the Netherlands are so happy that Makela is coming to the Concertgebouw.
I enjoyed this informative review which re-enforced my opinions of this conductor. I had to stop and listen to the opening bars of the Makela Fourth then did a quick comparison with the Previn-Chicago. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Makela's opening of the Fourth is too fast, lacks everything you say, also lacks Previn's muscle and brutality. The first big climax isn't crushing. The sequence seems mechanical, like a march for the Daleks. Makela has much to learn exemplified by a clueless Bruckner Ninth that appeared on RUclips awhile back. A Makela-Chicago Shostakovich Fourth remake should never happen but it probably will. No thanks.
Now that he betrayed in his personal life Yuja Wang (whose fame he enjoyed exploiting), and actual informed and intelligent musical lovers like you expose his musical mediocrity to us, I think his time in the sun will set. But sadly, it may take years. Brace yourself Chicago! Never thought I would lament Claudia Cassidy, but boy do I now!
Dave, I recently bought the Maazel/Cleveland recording of the 5th on Telarc, which may probably be a lot better than this one. I still can't believe they're going from Reiner and Solti to Ken doll. I pity Chicago. :(
None of this would matter were Ken learning his craft at a provincial orchestra, but he is set to take over the CSO. Even the precocious and talented Karajan was barely in Aachen at that age. Perhaps there is a similar vacancy for Makela in the Styx.
It’s not his age( Salonen? Karajan? Bernstein?-and there were others-) it’s that He’s Just Not Very Good! So unhappy to have him at my hometown orchestra and I am not going to be attending concerts at the CSO when he’s conducting.
Business before art. There's nothing wrong for a developing conductor to work on his craft, but it's another to have it recorded for posterity. The money grab by the recording company and the conductor is glaring and disappointing for the medium.
I would think being chief conductor of two major orchestras leaves very little time for artistic development. Same goes for conductors like Yannick Nézet-Séguin and others. When do they have time to actually study? What is their motivation? Fame, money and living a jetset life?
I can understand that orchestras are anxious to present young talent as a way of attracting younger audiences. The problem, as we all know, is that expertise in so-called classical music making comes with experience, practice and with rare exceptions, a certain maturity. Makela, from what I’ve heard from him, still has quite a way to go and to propel him into prestige appointments with leading orchestras does him no favours whatsoever. I wish him well and hopefully he will improve as time goes by , he would do far better to stick with one orchestra and learn his trade as the greats of the past did.
Makela currently looks like a marketing puff by Universal Music. He may well have some talent but he is not well served by his label and management who are setting him up for a fall.
Here on RUclips is a video: Herbert von Karajan - Interview (1978). In German I have to say. This man had everything that Mäkelä does not have. In his early years in Ulm (not in Amsterdam, Oslo and Chicago) he learned everything the hard way. He says: If you can wait, time is on your side. What a man! - Greetings from Berlin, Harry
I watched him conduct something on RUclips… very very disconnected from the music, the musicians, the audience … I wondered if he was on the spectrum or something …
So obviously I'm not a fan of this conductor, but I give his recordings a chance. Why do I keep torturing myself? Who was the engineer on this recording? The percussion is COMPLETELY buried in places. How can you do the end of the 5th and not hear crash cymbals?
I laughed so hard with this great review. I streamed a couple minutos of the 4th intro. So boring! I need to feel the alarms, building catching fire, soldiers marching, whatever just not something that bland!
Thank you Dave, I will save my money! It staggers me that someone like Klaus Mäkelä already in charge of the Oslo Phil. and the Orchestre de Paris, will be adding Chicago and Amsterdam Concertgebouw to his roster over the next few years. Espeically when you have the wonderful Susanna Mälkki with an immensely wide repertoire and equally immensely talented without a post - probably out of choice. But she would be a great fit for the RCO. But as we know with Mäkelä, it's about marketing and DG contracts and not about musical talent.
He has been active as a professional for years now and those commercial wonders as you call them are the most common thing in performing arts for 200 years. The thing thst astonished me is how musicians seem always so surprized by th3 same again and again
Excuse me, this "jüngling" does not have the DEPTH, the emotional maturity to interpret such difficult and demanding repetoire ...do forgive me, if he would just do repetoire that he REALLY feels comfortable with, then perhaps he could musically and hopefully emotionally develop ..perhaps....I am not a Fan...TIK TOK conductor.....ouch....
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Intersting that Hurwitz says the 6th is "awful" because most reviews that I have read says it is very good and by far the best performance on this disc. The 4th is probably my fav Shostakovich symphony and the 6th my second fav, so I have been wanting to get this set. Now I am not su sure.
I also saw an interview that Gramophone did with him regarding these symphones, and was not impressed. He seemed very shallow to me, and I question if he knows his history.
I was just about to write this! He was given several chances in the interview to demonstrate some deep thinking about the symphonies, but always reverted back to vague generalities and sweeping praise of Shostakovich. I was hoping that age and time would help him connect this assumed "brilliance" to the podium, but I just don't see any signs of that happening anytime soon. I was disappointed.
@@atriponline I completely disagree. The ability to form an opinion and express it verbally is quite important to translating it on the podium or through the instrument. A conductor is an interpreter using theory and history as a few of the many tools to help them craft their interpretation/musical argument. If you don't think that's a requirement, then what's the point of all of this?
@@atriponline The translation of opinions to musical performance happens in a conductor's personal preparation and then through rehearsal with the performers, where they clarify and adjust (verbally and through non-verbal gestures) for accurate interpretation. Is it inaccurate to say that type of translation is a fundamental expectation of the role? Also, the value judgments afterward are essential but not limited to critics, historians, and the like, as we have our own opinions.
Yes, we highly regard great mathematicians and scientists for their technical ability and sensibility. However, those achievements are cultivated from instruction or practice of theory and history. It's a forethought or foundation through which their abilities advance their field. My qualm with this conductor is that what I'm not hearing from him in these interviews is also what I'm not hearing on his recordings.
You know that you are allowed to have your own opinion,right?
Hi Dave. Thank you for saving me wasting my time listening to this new Makela set of Shostakovich symphonies. I am one of those few Shostakovich advocates lucky enough to have heard Ormandy’s American Premiere performance of Symphony 4, in 1962, just before he and our Philadelphians made their magnificent recording. Despite the piece being new to everyone, and “understandable” to few, Ormandy and the orchestra dug into the piece in a manner that few have done since. These 60+ years later, I have come to regard the Fourth as his greatest symphony, and have tried to hear every concert and recording of this incredible monument. I keep going back to the Ormandy, along with Jarvi and the Royal Scots, mentioned elsewhere in these comments.
Regarding Shostakovich Sixth, I believe you spotlighted the major difficulty of pulling off a satisfying performance of this uniquely structured piece - movements 2 and 3 must be each have its own character. I am most drawn to that recording I heard first in my life, Reiner, with the PITTSBURGH SO. (I own the Columbia 78s album, but also have it on a Columbia Masterworks CD reissue.) Unlike most more modern recordings, which treat the presto Finale as a lighthearted romp, Reiner, in this wartime recording, paced the Finale a bit slower, with a bit of Brucknerian Pesante emphasis, turning the end of the movement into a “Soviet citizens happily marching to work” parody. None better.
I'm so glad to hear you discussing *character* in orchestral performances - or the lack thereof. Character is exactly what is missing in so many new recordings these days. Too often we hear efficient, anonymous and disinterested readings. And I wonder over and over, why do they even bother recording it?
I have not heard this set, but I agree it is certainly a big challenge. When Haitink and Janssons conducted their Shostakovich cycle recordings, they weren't just starting out. One conductor who was - Simon Rattle in Birmingham - recorded the 4th, but he was more experienced then than Mäkelä is now, and only concentrated on one symphony - not a clump. As a result, Rattle's Shostakovich 4th is one of his most successful Birmingham recordings.
I want Kondrashin back ! I just e-mailed God, he replied that he is considering my request.
Hi guys! I really love these 3 symphonies but the way he records it is so off if that makes sense? Especially the last movement of the 5th symphony. The beginning sounds out of place, usually the parts are blended together but the tambir seems to be separate! I was wondering if there are any recordings that are phenomenal for all the Shostakovich symphonies? I’m looking to collecting some and listen to some actual good recordings!
Haven't heard these recordings yet, but, Dave, already they have justified themselves by provoking a major-league, world-class rant by yours truly! Started my day with a huge grin after about 3 minutes. 🙂🙂🙂 Back to Petrenko, et al.
Decca are compressing Mäkelä's recordings. The dynamics in his 2022 Sibelius cycle, his new 2024 Shostakovich and in his Sibelius & Prokofiev concerti is drastically reduced, as if they were going for the car driving or train riding crowd who needs to hear the quiet passages in a noisy environment.
The same audio compression is present on the forthcoming Mendelssohn release by Isata Kanneh-Mason.
It explains why the climaxes are all squashed.
This is very shocking. Decca recordings used to be the most open dynamically and we used to complain about Columbia. I hope this isn't a trend.
Hi Dave, when it popped up that it was on a stream, I tried the 4th (at the same time) with 2 of 4 others I have. As an exercise in listening, like a "first round". Mäkelä's was the first out, for being too sugary, and awfully loud recorded (or streamed). Realizing that, the game was over, and went back to Rimsky-Korsakov's Sextet. Great to know I'm not missing a damn thing and just lost 30 minutes of me life (arranging the game was fun). Thanks.
It sucks that some Music Director posts are awarded for non-musical reasons (fundraising or connected). While I'm not familiar with these Shostakovich recordings, I do watch a variety of guest conductors on the Frankfurt Radio Symphony YT channel, and my exposure to Makela was through him conducting Schumann 3. The musicians looked uncomfortable, and the balance and overall performance was not good by FRS standards.
Hey Dave, this comment isn't relevant to this video, but I was wondering if you might consider making a video on how you make the transition from listening to a work as a piece of music Vs also listening to it as a performance of that piece of music. There is (at least for me) a period where when I'm first discovering a work it's impossible to judge the performance because I don't really have an idea of how the piece should sound. Then as I get more familiar with the piece I can better critique a performance, but often I find that by the time I'm familiar with the work enough to appreciate the differences in performances by then I've somewhat tired of the piece itself and want to explore something new. I've found it hard to strike a balance between becoming familiar enough with a work that I can appreciate the differences in performances but not so overly familiar that I'm bored with it.
I've wondered how such an experienced listener like yourself manages that transition. Do you not get tired of hearing the umpteenth performance of a work you're extremely familiar with? Do you find it more or equally rewarding critiquing performances as enjoying the music itself? How long does it take you to go from first getting familiar with the piece to being able to critique differences in performances?
That's an interesting suggestion, and I thank you for sharing your own experience. Mine is very different, I think. I don't get bored listening to music that I love, and I love a lot of music! So I don't think I can really speak to your experience. Of course there will always be a learning curve in getting to know unfamiliar works, but I find the whole process enjoyable, if maybe for different reasons.
What works for me is putting some time between “learning” a piece itself and its recordings. I usually first learn the work by only listening to one of the recordings classicstoday says is the reference . Then sort of let it sit for a few weeks. And start listening other recommended or famous recordings after I feel like returning to that piece again.
@@tanaraci92 Thanks for the advice. I may try this.
Drat. I was rather hoping you’d enjoy this at least a bit more than Mäkelä’s previous outings. Shostakovich is my favorite symphonist and I’m a Chicago Symphony Orchestra subscriber, so I have some of my sagging skin in the game. Oh well. I do plan to listen to these recordings on Spotify, and my CSO tix will only be pried from cold, deceased hands, but I’m not excited for the new MD’s arrival in 2027.
Don't worry. The C.S.O. will still blast their way through those works, irrespective of who's waving the stick. I frankly like the C.S.O. more in Bruckner and Shostakovich, than in Mahler. Mahler, I believe, requires a bit more finesse, and more equal balance between the four principle sections of the orchestra: strings, woodwinds, brass and percussion. Everyone is equally important in Mahler.
The marketing is obvious in the cover photos - but what I am curious about is WHO is actually buying this stuff. Is it all an Emperor's New Clothes exercise among the producers, reviewers and radio presenters?
Yep. These things basically become souvenirs for those who go to the concerts, and loyal sycophants.
I wonder who buys any music. There's really no need to.
Probably Dave as well.
I like how your voice deepens when you lean into that score book. I was impressed when you brought that out. Is it from Petelsons?
Why not do a video on your sheet music collection?
As far as Makela, beware! He's the flavor of the month and the forces of hype arrayed behind him might decide to come and git ya!
Patelsons no longer exists.
I saw him conduct the Shostakovich 5th at the Edinburgh festival with the Oslo Phil. He was still dragging Yuja Wang around with him (she played 2 Ravel concertos). I remember enjoying it but there was a special circumstance. I was behind the stage about two feet from the timpanist. When he is on full thunder it is a different listening experience. Ironically my previous experience of the symphony was also two feet behind the timpani, this time under Michael Sanderling. I seem to be used to a heavy timpani mix of this symphony. I remember the bang bang bang more than the conductor.
Oh no. Subdued is not the way to play the 4th. If you don't find yourself blasted to the rear of the concert hall by the 3rd movement crescendo, they did it wrong.
Only the mediocre are always at their best! I absolutely love the insane variety & genius that these three challenging Shostakovich symphonies present & it seems as though the ubiquitous combination of technically very good but boring orchestral playing under the emasculated TikTokela who is clearly out of his depth ruins the music once again. I really like these reviews of Dave's because he gets right to the heart of the important musical matters at hand & with scores this time!
The 6th is horrendous, I mean, he doesn't even read the indications.... I have to say that when I hear playings like this one on Spotify I get Too frustrated because in Spotify we don't have an "I don't like" bottom.... I think it would be really necessary... I would love to push it so many times ... Discographic companies are really trying to make everything more and more empty of contempt. Disgusting
Consider how much garbage music is on Spotify, and how much high quality music is on Spotify. A "don't like" button wouldn't serve any algorithmic purpose you; Spotify just classifies EVERYTHING from pre-Baroque to avant-garde serialism as "classical". It's extremely irritating. Their algorithm makes no distinction between Bach and Schoenberg. It's all just "classical" as far as Spotify is concerned. It's nice that they have Hyperion's albums available for streaming now, but you really need to know what you're looking for on Spotify because as a default they'll just endlessly cram low-quality recordings of extremely overplayed pieces and/or overrated performances down your throat. I STILL have Glenn Gould and Lang Lang recordings showing up in my "recommended"; despite never favoriting, "liking", or even listening to a a single recording from either of them on that platform.
I did buy this Mäkelä album, and was (predictably?) underwhelmed. If you're going to do a Shostakovich "triptych", you might as well do 1, 2 & 3 - if only to get the last two duds out of the way! Wigglesworth did just this in his BIS cycle, and very fine it was, too. But 4 5 & 6 are such substantial works in their own right they deserve more attention than they get here.
I don't think any of DSCH's works can be described as 'duds'
@@Bezart34 OK, _comparative_ duds, then.
Exactly!
8:12 There is no piano part in the 3rd movement of the 5th. At the end the celeste plays the theme together with the harp (video editors always focus on the harp and who can blame them). There's both piano and celeste in the 1st movement, piano in the 4th movement, no keyboard in the 2nd movement.
You are wrong. I never said i was talking about the end of the movement. Get yourself a score and check out figure 89.
Seems that orchestra managers and especially donors/sponsors favor clout over quality. And Universal is really good at manufacturing clout.
I'll stick with Jarvi RSNO in the 4th, Previn LSO for the 5th and for something different Berglund Bournemouth SO for a terrific 6th.
Yep, cymbals are missing in the coda of the Finale in S5. Go figure! I agree that the 6th is dreadful in this set. It's a classic case of loving a work to the detriment of the work itself. There's absolutely no tempo contrast between the 'A' section and the slightly contrasting 'B' section - it's all at the same monotonous, yet breathless tempo. To me, just as with F-X. Roth, Makela is yet another case of parading the Emperor around in his new clothes. I'm hoping the Concertgebouw will come to its senses before buying into this nonsense more than they already have. I imagine we'll eventually get a ubiquitous Makela/Concertgebouw Mahler cycle "Hey, mix and match with your equally indistinguishable Jansons/Concertgebouw Mahler recordings".
Speaking of Shostakovich, I was looking at buying his symphony 8 performed by Andre Previn and the London Symphony Orchestra on DG. Is this considered a good recording of the piece Dave?
For Shostakovich 8, personally; I would recommend either Järvi + Scottish National Orchestra, or Sanderling + Berlin. My personal favorite is the Järvi. Järvi + Scottish National Orchestra also made the best recording of Shostakovich 10 IMO.
Both of Previn's Shostakovich 8s, are certainly worth collecting, if you're a Shostakovich devotee. "Go ahead" is my humble advice! You won't be disappointed.
Previn is very good, but his early EMI is better for being a bit quicker.
Get Warner’s Previn box!
A little bit "operatic" (even if Previn only conducted his own opera) like some of his other Shostakovich recordings. For example his 2nd mvt, very loud and exaggerating brass section. But I am not saying his recording is bad. Actually pretty amazing, and very special at the very least.
It sounds as if Makela wants to turn Shostakovich into that even more ubiquitous Russian composer Gelyavator Muzak.
Where is Cancrizans when you need him?
First time i heard the fourth i felt like i had been sucker punched! It was an aural assault, and It was the Barshai recording. I also have Bychkov’s recording which I find utterly thrilling. Petrenko 100% nails it on Naxos. I will download these recordings. It’s important to know what bad Shostakovich sounds like.
In the finale of the fifth, the timpanist misses a stroke. There are three notes, two are played. And that while the other instruments remain silent. I don't understand why people in the Netherlands are so happy that Makela is coming to the Concertgebouw.
I enjoyed this informative review which re-enforced my opinions of this conductor. I had to stop and listen to the opening bars of the Makela Fourth then did a quick comparison with the Previn-Chicago. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Makela's opening of the Fourth is too fast, lacks everything you say, also lacks Previn's muscle and brutality. The first big climax isn't crushing. The sequence seems mechanical, like a march for the Daleks. Makela has much to learn exemplified by a clueless Bruckner Ninth that appeared on RUclips awhile back. A Makela-Chicago Shostakovich Fourth remake should never happen but it probably will. No thanks.
I live in Oslo, and we simply stopped going to the Philharmonic when he conducts. It is not an issue of great in concert - poor in recording.
You ask why he does this. Because the record company wants him to? How much can he as a young conductor choose what to record and not I wonder?
Now that he betrayed in his personal life Yuja Wang (whose fame he enjoyed exploiting), and actual informed and intelligent musical lovers like you expose his musical mediocrity to us, I think his time in the sun will set. But sadly, it may take years. Brace yourself Chicago!
Never thought I would lament Claudia Cassidy, but boy do I now!
Dave, I recently bought the Maazel/Cleveland recording of the 5th on Telarc, which may probably be a lot better than this one. I still can't believe they're going from Reiner and Solti to Ken doll. I pity Chicago. :(
I wonder if a certain ex could attest to the anatomical claims.
None of this would matter were Ken learning his craft at a provincial orchestra, but he is set to take over the CSO. Even the precocious and talented Karajan was barely in Aachen at that age. Perhaps there is a similar vacancy for Makela in the Styx.
It’s not his age( Salonen? Karajan? Bernstein?-and there were others-) it’s that He’s Just Not Very Good! So unhappy to have him at my hometown orchestra and I am not going to be attending concerts at the CSO when he’s conducting.
@@waynesmith3767You should attend. It is a great orchestra; I can't imagine them ever giving a truly bad performance, no matter who is on the podium.
Business before art. There's nothing wrong for a developing conductor to work on his craft, but it's another to have it recorded for posterity. The money grab by the recording company and the conductor is glaring and disappointing for the medium.
I would think being chief conductor of two major orchestras leaves very little time for artistic development. Same goes for conductors like Yannick Nézet-Séguin and others. When do they have time to actually study? What is their motivation? Fame, money and living a jetset life?
Spot on
I can understand that orchestras are anxious to present young talent as a way of attracting younger audiences. The problem, as we all know, is that expertise in so-called classical music making comes with experience, practice and with rare exceptions, a certain maturity. Makela, from what I’ve heard from him, still has quite a way to go and to propel him into prestige appointments with leading orchestras does him no favours whatsoever. I wish him well and hopefully he will improve as time goes by , he would do far better to stick with one orchestra and learn his trade as the greats of the past did.
I don't think people understand how conductors actually "work" on their craft.
Makela currently looks like a marketing puff by Universal Music. He may well have some talent but he is not well served by his label and management who are setting him up for a fall.
Here on RUclips is a video: Herbert von Karajan - Interview (1978). In German I have to say. This man had everything that Mäkelä does not have. In his early years in Ulm (not in Amsterdam, Oslo and Chicago) he learned everything the hard way. He says: If you can wait, time is on your side. What a man! - Greetings from Berlin, Harry
You're right. He was a deeply thoughtful and patient man.
Watch last Monsaingeon’s documentary on Mäkelä, and get your own conclusion 🤭
No. Ignore that and let the musical results speak for themselves.
I watched him conduct something on RUclips… very very disconnected from the music, the musicians, the audience … I wondered if he was on the spectrum or something …
So obviously I'm not a fan of this conductor, but I give his recordings a chance. Why do I keep torturing myself? Who was the engineer on this recording? The percussion is COMPLETELY buried in places. How can you do the end of the 5th and not hear crash cymbals?
You gotta wonder!
The intro to this video was hilarious.
Mediocre Shostakovich…….that’s unforgivable………
I laughed so hard with this great review. I streamed a couple minutos of the 4th intro. So boring! I need to feel the alarms, building catching fire, soldiers marching, whatever just not something that bland!
Thank you Dave, I will save my money! It staggers me that someone like Klaus Mäkelä already in charge of the Oslo Phil. and the Orchestre de Paris, will be adding Chicago and Amsterdam Concertgebouw to his roster over the next few years. Espeically when you have the wonderful Susanna Mälkki with an immensely wide repertoire and equally immensely talented without a post - probably out of choice. But she would be a great fit for the RCO. But as we know with Mäkelä, it's about marketing and DG contracts and not about musical talent.
Can’t stand those 90-day wonders! They all want to be different just for the fun of it, just to call attention
He has been active as a professional for years now and those commercial wonders as you call them are the most common thing in performing arts for 200 years. The thing thst astonished me is how musicians seem always so surprized by th3 same again and again
Excuse me, this "jüngling" does not have the DEPTH, the emotional maturity to interpret such difficult and demanding repetoire ...do forgive me, if he would just do repetoire that he REALLY feels comfortable with, then perhaps he could musically and hopefully emotionally develop ..perhaps....I am not a Fan...TIK TOK conductor.....ouch....
Another member of the useless conductors club