People get really fixated on the whole "can't carry in hots things" but no one ever talks about the opposite like when people complain they can't win a league game because one of their teammates fed someone. It might be fun to feel op and 1 shot someone because you have more stats them but it feels really stupid to be on the recieving end. Hots does have power SPIKES and scaling mechanics but they are pretty well balanced.there are characters that have high risk high reward quest talents or passive that might give them increasing power that can be lost on death. No one wins a game of hots because they just have more stats they win by playing well. Team levels matter in hots to an extent they give windows where 1 team is stronger than the other slightly and certain heroes are particularly strong at certain levels but it doesn't snow ball so hard the defending team doesn't get a l chance to even things out. I enjoy both games but HOTS is honestly super misunderstood it's a very different game that plays entirely different.
While you say you can't win a game if one of your teammates fed, at least in league you have way more agency to carry than in hots. I one tricked one of the hardest carrying champions, TLV, to a pretty high mmr, and there are games where if my 4 man can't win any fights, it doesn't matter if I make my team be up a level. Meanwhile, even if an enemy is fed in league, if I'm playing any character that is strong when fed, I can still take shutdowns and have a chance to solo carry the game, which does happen quite a bit. While I think hots is certainly a great game and I don't know if the same champion designs which hots exceled at would be possible without the shared xp, I do agree on what august is saying.
Yeah it seems like August doesn't understand HotS at the higher end where playing well will lead to level advantages which can be absolutely massive during objectives. HotS is about pushing every lead you have to keep your advantage while league is about getting a small advantage once and then dominating the rest of the game without much thought or skill if you win early game hard enough.
He was referring to the power level of your own champion relative to your team and the enemies. That variance is dramatically lower in HotS. He didn't say that all champions are always even in power with each other. He's saying that when you do spike, you do it at closer to the same time and closer to the same degree each game. There's a higher floor, a lower ceiling, and a narrower timeframe to it all.
@bibity74 very well put. Hots was ahead of its time. And unfortunately run by blizzard. Fantastic game with fantastic design. Its a shame even people with good understanding of moba mechanics still can't understand the genius of hots.
Yeah the HotS comment came off as arrogant like, he doesn’t seem to think that a MOBA can last without the creation of individualistic power fantasies that League has, which in some way diminishes the “team oriented “ aspect of the game.
And remember, Twisted treeline died because we had 1 patch every year, and it was filled with wintraders dooing trio with 2 iron account to sell the challenger physical rewards
"We want players to have a sense of Pride and Accomplishment." It's purely digital goods (And not even that many or particularly high quality) that costs as much as a PS5, 2 real life statues of faker/ahri themselves or 8 AAA full priced high budget games (Compare how much effort was needed to make these 8 games over this skin).
Bro like who tf are these players that "want to spend more money" Like we are talking about MONEY, you never want to spend more and I feel like Riot is intentionally saying it this way so people don't realize they are taking advantage of whales who drop big cash on games irresponsibly, with the whole limited time to buy the skin shit I wish they would just be sincere about it or just go full scum and ignore all the backlash like other companies
i forget where else they've explained it but it's less that players "want to spend more money" and more that "players want items that have some prestige/exclusivity to them" and are willing to pay for that rarity/exclusivity
"We want players to have a sense of Pride and Accomplishment." It's purely digital goods (And not even that many or particularly high quality) that costs as much as a PS5, 2 real life statues of faker/ahri themselves or 8 AAA full priced high budget games (Compare how much effort was needed to make these 8 games over this skin).
@@c0n33r and there are tons of people buying it and enjoying it, and not spending a moment on social media reading your criticism. Money is a tool for experiences and the people who the $500 version is aimed at don't do those mental comparisons "it costs a playstation" because they can have the playstation too. I still don't see how it affects anyone's experience except their own, unless you feel inferior because of in game skins?
Dominion allowed me to try champs in short games. The passive gold mean't I could brawl with the enemy & die without being statchecked into the ground unlike SR. I have the 100 Dominion game icon
I think monster champs are more interesting because they don't need a weapon, they are the weapon. Their abilities are not based on their weapons unlike almost every humanoid champ. Their abilities are linked to the unique attributes of their species. Seriously besides annie and sett, I can't think of a single humanoid champ that doesn't use a weapon. It makes sense though, unless you are sett, you can't win a fist fight against cho gath.
@@JonathanAlliali-Die-go5gl true, although kai sa's weapon is her armor, viktor uses some kind of staff, same for karthus, sona has her harpsicord. I'm just saying, monster champs are cooler imo.
@@deni4l164 Kai’sa’s armor is part like an organ her body but I guess she counts as a monster champion, Viktor staff is just for style because the spell he uses are from his metallic 3rd hand fused, Karthus I don’t know, I guess that’s true for Sona. But humanoid champs are also really cool.
His metallic third hand is also a weapon he crafted in case you didn't notice. That said I disagree with the original comment. I think most humanoids kits aren't fully designed around the weapon. Garen W + R Not weapon related Shen E + R not weapon related Illaoi Q + E not weapon related It's mostly just the case with ADCs (carrying ranged weapons) Of course there are bruiser exceptions like Darius. Also, I think saying mages use their "weapons" is unfair, staffs are just common to channel magic. Karthus is a demon/undead too, it's just his own magic that gets stronger thanks to a staff. Conversely, there's also plenty of monster champs that mainly use their "weapons". Warwick (Claws Nose and Fangs) Rek'Sai (Claws Echolocation Fangs) Malphite (🪨) Rammus (circular spiked shell) I wish there were more monster champions, but I don't think monster champs have kits that are necessarily more diverse than humanoids champs. Human champs, yes, humanoid, no. @@JonathanAlliali-Die-go5gl
@@cyarutchiii no the hand is full part of his body, yes he crafted it but in the effort of his glorious evolution Viktor is now a machine the hand is part of him.
All you do with the Lux skin argument is create a "Favorite Child" you dont only make the most players happy, you always make the same players happy other people will feel neglected. ofc this also snowballs because of the shard system and such, if i look for another champ to play will i play the champ that get no attention or yone who gets 5 high quality skins in the time any monster champ got 1 ? Im not saying monster champs are only unpopular because of riots handling of skins but it certainly doesnt help, it just widens the gap. Rich get richer after all
@@pelleatkinson4698 if you are a New Player you will first try whatever first gets your attention. If lets say you visualy like orn and yone, but you and you get a highnoon yone shard you will try that champ Most likely first because cool skin. Most people dont play League for 8 years and such Most people wont have the time to try everything so they will try Stuff that gets their attention first. Cool skins get attention first + it changes visual Identity wich helps the feeling of variety. Im not saying that monster Champions are only unpopular because of skins, im saying that it worsens the gap.
Hots was interesting because there were heroes like Murky who excelled at soaking and being a split push nuisance, and I dont know if his kit would have worked if he solely got all the xp he was generating for the team.
On the HoTS point, I actually disagree. There was and is variance game to game, playing the same character. It’s just not as swingy as the example of 20/0 one game and 0/20 the other. Honestly I get that he’s being a bit dramatic because those two results are pretty rare still. However he’s right that it does middle the experiences comparatively. Like it’s harder to have a game where you are a hyper carry and feel it in HoTS than in league, but it also makes it harder to feel like you can’t do anything. I think that the concept of sharing exp as a team itself turns people off of the game, along with no gold/items.
This is the sort of hindsight theory crafting that helped things like arena stay alive and actually feel like a genuine game mode players want to spend time on for months on end. If both arena and swarm succeed we could genuinely see more modes come back with the passion of overall better balance to keep it from being sweaty/unplayable
3v3 was amazing and loved by tons of ppl rito just hates us having fun and they let poor understanding of statistics lead them to making the decision to remove it
Ngl 3v3 was never loved by tons of ppl until they ripped off that gamemode. You had to wait like 10 minutes of queue for every single game, that gamemode was pretty dead already
3s was fine with an actual playerbase until they stopped doing map-specific champion & item balance in season 5 without even adding aram's pretend balance changes with the % buffs/nerfs. After that it lead to nonsense like brand, kayne, anivia, and poppy consistently having ~60% winrates (all of these guys were worthy of being cripplingly over-nerfed out of playability due to how they were op). What was the silliest part about these was it was easily apparent to anyone who played at least 5 games on the map what needed to be changed to fix it but riot just stopped touching the map after season 5 Examples of some of those things: terrain creation, any ability that was big enough to completely fill jungle paths or lanes, invis traps (map has no wards), non-comital ways to jump the wall to top lane, non-comital ways to move from one lane to the other, relic shield
The problem with what august says about the ahri skin and what people say about it is "Spend a bit more". It's not a "bit" more. It's straight up £395 for 1 singular skin at its highest tier. That's not a "bit" more.
I think dominion could have had potential since it was very distinct from existing game modes, though I personally didn't enjoy the fundamental gameplay. Twisted treeline was doomed from the start though since it didn't really offer anything different enough from summoner's rift, people would rather run a 3-man premade on the rift than play twisted. ARAM and Arena are more successful because they are very different from each other and you can't get their experiences on the rift.
Twisted treeline was the go to when playing with friends, but too few to have a full 5 man team, or to orgapnise 3v3s. I honestly loved the game mode. Only issue was its inconsistency, 2/3 of games you would be playing with or against complete beginners or bots, and the remaining 1/3 of games would be against 3 stacked giga tryhard smurfs, there was no in between. I don't get why it never took off, my guess would be that it wasn't advertised enough, and ended up suffering from lack of popularity, causing even less popularity. I'd bet a twisted treeline comeback would find success, thanks to the appeal to nostalgia. And it could maintain that initial push if incentivised correctly through proper rewards and laddering system for both engagement and competitivity
Not only was it not advertised, but it was purposefully neglected. Things like champion mastery just did not apply to twisted treeline when it even progressed in Aram. Riot has done this a few times. They don't support a mode and then because it is neglected it's not played and then because it's not played they get rid of it. They did the same thing with legends of runeterra. Never tried to monetize it, then all of a sudden they said it was making no money and pulled support
I think August is close but not quite there with his take on HoTS. See, it's not about variance, It's about the potential power you can achieve. The same principal comes up in discussing Roguelikes: Compare like... The Binding of Issac to Hades. In Hades you can get strong, sure, but you're never so strong that the game stops putting up a fight. On the other hand in The Binding of Issac you can get so monstrously strong that the game just folds under the absurdity of your build by the endgame... and it's those runs that keep people coming back, same as League. Don't get me wrong, Hades is a great game, but Issac is a more addictive one. It isn't about the games feeling samey, it's that there isn't an extreme high to chase that keeps people coming back for another game in HoTS, so the motivation to keep going has to come from somewhere else. The problem is that chasing the high game is probably another source of the hardcore FF15 culture: It isn't about winning, it's chasing that rare 20/0 toplane game where you just walk all over the lobby and nobody can stop you. For some league players the second it's clear that isn't going to happen the game isn't worth playing, so they FF.
Monster champs aren't unpopular because they are monsters, but because their gameplay is almost always incredibly niche or outdated. Old Asol, Bard, Cho'Gath, Fiddlesticks, Gnar, Hecarim, Ivern, Kennen, Kled, Kog'Maw, Rek'Sai, Shaco, old Skarner, Tahm Kench, Zac... All champions that are either clunky, outdated, or niche with skills that aren't transferable to other champs. Thresh is VERY popular. Naafiri is decently popular. Warwick is popular. Because they are way less niche and specific than your usual monster champ.
Apart from the fact that the champions you mentioned seemed all mixed up based on the stats from a site i looked at, I actually used to think that as well, but consider this: 1. Riot has much better access to the statistics based on which they make these assumptions. 2. The Chinese playerbase is probably at least 2 times as big as the rest of the servers combined. Which means that Riot is tailoring this game to the liking of Chinese fans. EDIT: The Chinese are really not fans of monster champions (or even monster-adjacent champions) just so you know.
>Monster champs arent popular because their gameplay is incredibliy niche/outdated, just look at Naafiri and Warwick Warwick and Naafiri are very easy, nobody uses them past certain ELOs. Being monsters doesnt have anything to do with their popularity.
I imagine that making good skins for monsters is harder/more work than humanoids. If it's not going to sell well and is harder to execute, then the smart business move is to only release those skins when you have an obviously brilliant design and focus more time on other things.
@@MichaelJones-rg3hv One of the most curious things about the subject is that, the release of skins varies from monster to monster. Like, there is some rioters out there who seems to be a fan of Tahm Kench (He had 3 years with consecutive skins) It seems like its not generalized dislike, or at least there are some exceptions. Why? IDK but ill be looking if TK gets his 4th consecutive skin this year
The Ahri skin mess is so overblown. I don't see how this is any different than collectables in other hobbies. The actual object is never actually worth the price it is being sold at. You are literally buying exclusivity. There will never be a skin riot releases I will pay more than $25 for. And that's ok! I find it tasteless to use Faker's legacy for this opportunity, but if people want to waste their money (which is an opinion) and want the status/exclusivity of the collectable then no harm no foul. It's not even a predatory structure either: the price is upfront. All these half-baked takes about this skin actually got a dem soc rationalizing choices of a billion dollar corporation lmao. If you do not like what Riot is doing, just don't give them money. We saw this with the netflix boycott too. A lot of yapping and no conviction.
It is different for some reasons actually! So, using your example, lets say there's this baseball ball that is from wherever whenever, it is just a ball, but because of the ocasion of when the ball was played with it gains value, not only that but you can sell it in the future, and a very important part, when you get it, it is yours, the skin, however, it's not, you can't sell it, you cant do anything with it outside of the restrictions riot imposes by making it just superfaturated pixels. And on the contrary as you say, it does affect other people! Right now riot is testing how much people are willing to pay for cosmetics, so naturally they will push this limit as they can, when they find a confortable spot, a lot of people wont be able to buy the cool skins that they were once able to, in my country, for example, where league is for a lot of people one of the few games their pcs can handle, getting that skin is impossible, because it corresponds to literally half of someone's monthly salary. And by all means, good for riot! They are a company that should search for profit at the end of the day, but neither me nor you can invalidate someone's frustration for not being able to enjoy something they wished for.
Because it's purely digital goods (And not even that many or particularly high quality) that costs as much as a PS5, 2 real life statues of faker/ahri themselves or 8 AAA full priced high budget games (Compare how much effort was needed to make these 8 games over this skin).
@@ericoflonde but how is a $500 skin different from a $5 skin, in both instances you can't sell it. also riot it very aware of the economic crisis in developing countries and prices their skins accordingly. They will get more expensive but you will be able to afford a reasonable amount
@@ericoflonde Whether or not you can sell it or not is irrelevant, but also you can and always have been able to sell accounts. And I disagree with your metaphysics of ownership lol. I'm not saying this skin is an NFT or something, but you can definitely own things that are not tangible. "Right now riot is testing how much people are willing to pay for cosmetics, so naturally they will push this limit as they can, when they find a confortable spot, a lot of people wont be able to buy the cool skins that they were once able to" No, this is just conjecture. At the very least riot has done nothing to indicate that this content is coming at the expense of cheaper content. Riot can both make overpriced mid skins as well as the usual 1350rp schlock they consistently pump out. If this skin actually ends up affecting the normal skins being produced, then I would see that as wrong but this idea is purely speculation at the moment. "but neither me nor you can invalidate someone's frustration for not being able to enjoy something they wished for." I mean you kinda can though because again the explicit point of the skin is the price point AKA exclusivity. Whether someone cannot afford it or realizes it isn't worth it both achieves this end. I just don't see anything particularly villainous about Riot catering content to their biggest markets. I can sympathize with people not being able to afford the skin, but I think we need to look inward to desire itself. Also if you look at TCGs and franchises like warframe, people in wealthier countries spend large amounts of money on their hobbies all the time. If there was a predatory or deceptive pricing structure, that would be one thing but the only thing compelling anyone in this case is FOMO.
@@c0n33r Yeah its a horrible deal, I agree. I guarantee you that riot makes much more money on popular skin lines like star guardian than they will on this skin. The value of the skin includes you and me not thinking it is worth the price. In fact just googling... Star guardian taliyah (a relatively unpopular champ) made 6mil USD in 2022 lol. Not even factoring in the other skins in that batch.
The champs are balanced against the environments they are placed in. Putting SR designed champs into different map/game rule environments does not make sense. It’s like saying “Hockey is a terrible game, trying to hit this puck with a tennis racket is frustrating and unfun”
It's not for hate but... When asked about Ahri skin he responded in the default response, like a true NPC, probably being silenced. That was the exact same response that they gave when the $200 Scamchromas were released
I actually kind of find Augusts’ explanation on champ skins kind of dumb and like… no that is still a profit mindset that isn’t distinct from what he’s arguing against lmao. Especially because it kind of oversimplifies why players like things. Like, I doubt Lux or Ezreal would be as popular as they are, regardless of how appealing they look to e-girls, if they had anywhere near the same skill ceiling as Taliyah or the clunkiness of more dated champs like Sivir. Both looks and how they feel to play matters.
6v6 twisted treeline did exist, it was one of the hexakill variations, and it was pretty mid as a gamemode compared to others. I remember it vividly because I got permabanned on it for calling someone a cun* in chat when they denied me the hexakill and I died chasing them into their base. Still amazed at how little it took to get banned for like 5+ years before they finally gave up their cringey webkinz-esque censorship and toned it back. If only I could get some of my old permabanned friends back into league, but riot did permanent damage to their playerbase and reputation over those years.
I want a mode that's nexus blitz without the events (small map with lots of fighting) so honestly bring back twisted treeline with more people. Don't see why we can't have both
The best part of twisted treelines is that its LESS people. 5v5 is already way too many people. Increasing the amount of people only makes it astronomically worse. Also his "key issue" with hots is just wrong. Everyone being generally around the same power level is part of why hots feels so good to play. Very rarely does hots give you the feeling of "i legit cannot do anything". Which when youre 0/20 in league, you have that feeling. Sure it doesnt have the extreme highs, but it also doesnt have the extreme lows. It creates a much more CONSISTENT experience for the player. Its a true team vs team game showing the teams skill. Rather than league where its a toss up on who gets fed and takes over the game
It is consistent but some people end up feeling it monotonous. The problem isn't the system itself but who it is aimed for, that is the average moba player whose tastes are already filtered for the existing games. The fact that you can be absolutely useless in one game makes the feeling when you're super fed and carrying that much stronger. Even in Pokemon Unite, designed as baby's first moba, being 3 levels above everyone with your lane opponent unable to fully evolve all match is a fun part of the experience because it could have happened to you, and even my little sister enjoys that dynamic. HotS isn't inherently bad, it just has no good way of reaching a good amount of an appropriate target audience. It's a moba for people who don't like how current moba's work, which puts it in a niche it needs to find a way to organically and slowly grow, rather than being able to reach into the pool of LoL and DotA players and grab a chunk of them.
@yerielzamora hots was huge. Still is comparable to smites playerbase if not bigger to this day. So idk where this idea of hots being some small game came from but thats wrong. Unfortunately its blizzard and is now mostly abandoned.
@@TheCosmicAstro- I didn't specifically say it was small, and "huge" in a moba context is LoL and Dota, not Smite. It's less of a matter of actual numbers and more about potential for continuous or even exponential growth of the playerbase. Compared to something like Valorant that constantly has Overwatch and CSGO players moving to it, HotS doesn't have that same drawing power. LoL players don't often wonder if they should try HotS the same way Overwatch players wonder if they should try Valorant.
@yerielzamora a lot of what you're saying is just a popularity thing. Not a quality thing. Valorant and CSGO are the lowest of the low. Valorant is just a slightly cooler piece of shit cause it has characters and abilities. But yes setting self up for growth and whatnot is good. But the thing is hots DID take a lot of moba players. The problem is blizzard ruined it and now the game is abandoned. So it's not exactly a logical conclusion to try and talk about hots like it's being actively developed, marketed, etc. But if we look at hots back in the day, it did all of the things you're saying it should/needed to do.
People get really fixated on the whole "can't carry in hots things" but no one ever talks about the opposite like when people complain they can't win a league game because one of their teammates fed someone. It might be fun to feel op and 1 shot someone because you have more stats them but it feels really stupid to be on the recieving end. Hots does have power SPIKES and scaling mechanics but they are pretty well balanced.there are characters that have high risk high reward quest talents or passive that might give them increasing power that can be lost on death. No one wins a game of hots because they just have more stats they win by playing well. Team levels matter in hots to an extent they give windows where 1 team is stronger than the other slightly and certain heroes are particularly strong at certain levels but it doesn't snow ball so hard the defending team doesn't get a l chance to even things out. I enjoy both games but HOTS is honestly super misunderstood it's a very different game that plays entirely different.
While you say you can't win a game if one of your teammates fed, at least in league you have way more agency to carry than in hots. I one tricked one of the hardest carrying champions, TLV, to a pretty high mmr, and there are games where if my 4 man can't win any fights, it doesn't matter if I make my team be up a level. Meanwhile, even if an enemy is fed in league, if I'm playing any character that is strong when fed, I can still take shutdowns and have a chance to solo carry the game, which does happen quite a bit.
While I think hots is certainly a great game and I don't know if the same champion designs which hots exceled at would be possible without the shared xp, I do agree on what august is saying.
Yeah it seems like August doesn't understand HotS at the higher end where playing well will lead to level advantages which can be absolutely massive during objectives. HotS is about pushing every lead you have to keep your advantage while league is about getting a small advantage once and then dominating the rest of the game without much thought or skill if you win early game hard enough.
He was referring to the power level of your own champion relative to your team and the enemies. That variance is dramatically lower in HotS.
He didn't say that all champions are always even in power with each other. He's saying that when you do spike, you do it at closer to the same time and closer to the same degree each game. There's a higher floor, a lower ceiling, and a narrower timeframe to it all.
@bibity74 very well put.
Hots was ahead of its time.
And unfortunately run by blizzard.
Fantastic game with fantastic design.
Its a shame even people with good understanding of moba mechanics still can't understand the genius of hots.
Yeah the HotS comment came off as arrogant like, he doesn’t seem to think that a MOBA can last without the creation of individualistic power fantasies that League has, which in some way diminishes the “team oriented “ aspect of the game.
Hexakill on twisted treeline was badass
And remember, Twisted treeline died because we had 1 patch every year, and it was filled with wintraders dooing trio with 2 iron account to sell the challenger physical rewards
twisted treeline taught me to skirmish/teamfight. miss that gamemode
"We want players to have a sense of Pride and Accomplishment."
It's purely digital goods (And not even that many or particularly high quality) that costs as much as a PS5, 2 real life statues of faker/ahri themselves or 8 AAA full priced high budget games (Compare how much effort was needed to make these 8 games over this skin).
Bro like who tf are these players that "want to spend more money"
Like we are talking about MONEY, you never want to spend more and I feel like Riot is intentionally saying it this way so people don't realize they are taking advantage of whales who drop big cash on games irresponsibly, with the whole limited time to buy the skin shit
I wish they would just be sincere about it or just go full scum and ignore all the backlash like other companies
i forget where else they've explained it but it's less that players "want to spend more money" and more that "players want items that have some prestige/exclusivity to them" and are willing to pay for that rarity/exclusivity
It only takes 10 players spending $10,000 each to match 10,000 players spending $10 each
"We want players to have a sense of Pride and Accomplishment."
It's purely digital goods (And not even that many or particularly high quality) that costs as much as a PS5, 2 real life statues of faker/ahri themselves or 8 AAA full priced high budget games (Compare how much effort was needed to make these 8 games over this skin).
@@c0n33r and there are tons of people buying it and enjoying it, and not spending a moment on social media reading your criticism. Money is a tool for experiences and the people who the $500 version is aimed at don't do those mental comparisons "it costs a playstation" because they can have the playstation too. I still don't see how it affects anyone's experience except their own, unless you feel inferior because of in game skins?
@@user-er1fs3je4x yeah lmao i dont see the problem, its a free game, and not pay-to-win. what can they possibly be mad about
Dominion allowed me to try champs in short games. The passive gold mean't I could brawl with the enemy & die without being statchecked into the ground unlike SR. I have the 100 Dominion game icon
I think monster champs are more interesting because they don't need a weapon, they are the weapon. Their abilities are not based on their weapons unlike almost every humanoid champ. Their abilities are linked to the unique attributes of their species. Seriously besides annie and sett, I can't think of a single humanoid champ that doesn't use a weapon. It makes sense though, unless you are sett, you can't win a fist fight against cho gath.
Ahri, swain, Kaisa, Viktor, Sona Seraphine, Karthus, mages in general
@@JonathanAlliali-Die-go5gl true, although kai sa's weapon is her armor, viktor uses some kind of staff, same for karthus, sona has her harpsicord. I'm just saying, monster champs are cooler imo.
@@deni4l164 Kai’sa’s armor is part like an organ her body but I guess she counts as a monster champion, Viktor staff is just for style because the spell he uses are from his metallic 3rd hand fused, Karthus I don’t know, I guess that’s true for Sona. But humanoid champs are also really cool.
His metallic third hand is also a weapon he crafted in case you didn't notice.
That said I disagree with the original comment. I think most humanoids kits aren't fully designed around the weapon.
Garen W + R Not weapon related
Shen E + R not weapon related
Illaoi Q + E not weapon related
It's mostly just the case with ADCs (carrying ranged weapons)
Of course there are bruiser exceptions like Darius.
Also, I think saying mages use their "weapons" is unfair, staffs are just common to channel magic. Karthus is a demon/undead too, it's just his own magic that gets stronger thanks to a staff.
Conversely, there's also plenty of monster champs that mainly use their "weapons".
Warwick (Claws Nose and Fangs)
Rek'Sai (Claws Echolocation Fangs)
Malphite (🪨)
Rammus (circular spiked shell)
I wish there were more monster champions, but I don't think monster champs have kits that are necessarily more diverse than humanoids champs.
Human champs, yes, humanoid, no.
@@JonathanAlliali-Die-go5gl
@@cyarutchiii no the hand is full part of his body, yes he crafted it but in the effort of his glorious evolution Viktor is now a machine the hand is part of him.
All you do with the Lux skin argument is create a "Favorite Child"
you dont only make the most players happy, you always make the same players happy other people will feel neglected.
ofc this also snowballs because of the shard system and such, if i look for another champ to play will i play the champ that get no attention or yone who gets 5 high quality skins in the time any monster champ got 1 ?
Im not saying monster champs are only unpopular because of riots handling of skins but it certainly doesnt help, it just widens the gap.
Rich get richer after all
i dont get what your saying, do you play a champ based on how many skins you have to that champion?
Lux just sells skins, Ezreal sells skins. Would you play Lux over someone like Ornn cuz Ornn gets less skins? No.
@@pelleatkinson4698 if you are a New Player you will first try whatever first gets your attention.
If lets say you visualy like orn and yone, but you and you get a highnoon yone shard you will try that champ Most likely first because cool skin.
Most people dont play League for 8 years and such Most people wont have the time to try everything so they will try Stuff that gets their attention first.
Cool skins get attention first + it changes visual Identity wich helps the feeling of variety.
Im not saying that monster Champions are only unpopular because of skins, im saying that it worsens the gap.
@@MG-zx3pxchoo choo ornn > 99% of lux skins. Would buy again, 10/10
Ganking with Zac in Twisted Treeline was fun.
Hots was interesting because there were heroes like Murky who excelled at soaking and being a split push nuisance, and I dont know if his kit would have worked if he solely got all the xp he was generating for the team.
On the HoTS point, I actually disagree. There was and is variance game to game, playing the same character. It’s just not as swingy as the example of 20/0 one game and 0/20 the other. Honestly I get that he’s being a bit dramatic because those two results are pretty rare still. However he’s right that it does middle the experiences comparatively. Like it’s harder to have a game where you are a hyper carry and feel it in HoTS than in league, but it also makes it harder to feel like you can’t do anything. I think that the concept of sharing exp as a team itself turns people off of the game, along with no gold/items.
This is the sort of hindsight theory crafting that helped things like arena stay alive and actually feel like a genuine game mode players want to spend time on for months on end. If both arena and swarm succeed we could genuinely see more modes come back with the passion of overall better balance to keep it from being sweaty/unplayable
Dominion wa sthe only rrason I played league back in the day, 90 percent of my time on League was Dominion. I really miss that game mode.
Twisted Treeline was the most fun I had with League
what is airum?
6v6 twisted treeline sounds really fucking good, if it's done well i could see it being better than ARAM.
3v3 was amazing and loved by tons of ppl rito just hates us having fun and they let poor understanding of statistics lead them to making the decision to remove it
Ngl 3v3 was never loved by tons of ppl until they ripped off that gamemode. You had to wait like 10 minutes of queue for every single game, that gamemode was pretty dead already
3s was fine with an actual playerbase until they stopped doing map-specific champion & item balance in season 5 without even adding aram's pretend balance changes with the % buffs/nerfs. After that it lead to nonsense like brand, kayne, anivia, and poppy consistently having ~60% winrates (all of these guys were worthy of being cripplingly over-nerfed out of playability due to how they were op). What was the silliest part about these was it was easily apparent to anyone who played at least 5 games on the map what needed to be changed to fix it but riot just stopped touching the map after season 5
Examples of some of those things: terrain creation, any ability that was big enough to completely fill jungle paths or lanes, invis traps (map has no wards), non-comital ways to jump the wall to top lane, non-comital ways to move from one lane to the other, relic shield
The problem with what august says about the ahri skin and what people say about it is "Spend a bit more". It's not a "bit" more. It's straight up £395 for 1 singular skin at its highest tier. That's not a "bit" more.
Dominion was always fun, no matter how many games.
10v10 summoner rift
team deathmatch
I think dominion could have had potential since it was very distinct from existing game modes, though I personally didn't enjoy the fundamental gameplay. Twisted treeline was doomed from the start though since it didn't really offer anything different enough from summoner's rift, people would rather run a 3-man premade on the rift than play twisted. ARAM and Arena are more successful because they are very different from each other and you can't get their experiences on the rift.
I miss TT
Twisted treeline was the go to when playing with friends, but too few to have a full 5 man team, or to orgapnise 3v3s. I honestly loved the game mode. Only issue was its inconsistency, 2/3 of games you would be playing with or against complete beginners or bots, and the remaining 1/3 of games would be against 3 stacked giga tryhard smurfs, there was no in between. I don't get why it never took off, my guess would be that it wasn't advertised enough, and ended up suffering from lack of popularity, causing even less popularity. I'd bet a twisted treeline comeback would find success, thanks to the appeal to nostalgia. And it could maintain that initial push if incentivised correctly through proper rewards and laddering system for both engagement and competitivity
Not only was it not advertised, but it was purposefully neglected. Things like champion mastery just did not apply to twisted treeline when it even progressed in Aram. Riot has done this a few times. They don't support a mode and then because it is neglected it's not played and then because it's not played they get rid of it. They did the same thing with legends of runeterra. Never tried to monetize it, then all of a sudden they said it was making no money and pulled support
Have I been saying ARAM wrong this whole time?
I think August is close but not quite there with his take on HoTS. See, it's not about variance, It's about the potential power you can achieve. The same principal comes up in discussing Roguelikes: Compare like... The Binding of Issac to Hades. In Hades you can get strong, sure, but you're never so strong that the game stops putting up a fight. On the other hand in The Binding of Issac you can get so monstrously strong that the game just folds under the absurdity of your build by the endgame... and it's those runs that keep people coming back, same as League. Don't get me wrong, Hades is a great game, but Issac is a more addictive one.
It isn't about the games feeling samey, it's that there isn't an extreme high to chase that keeps people coming back for another game in HoTS, so the motivation to keep going has to come from somewhere else. The problem is that chasing the high game is probably another source of the hardcore FF15 culture: It isn't about winning, it's chasing that rare 20/0 toplane game where you just walk all over the lobby and nobody can stop you. For some league players the second it's clear that isn't going to happen the game isn't worth playing, so they FF.
Monster champs aren't unpopular because they are monsters, but because their gameplay is almost always incredibly niche or outdated. Old Asol, Bard, Cho'Gath, Fiddlesticks, Gnar, Hecarim, Ivern, Kennen, Kled, Kog'Maw, Rek'Sai, Shaco, old Skarner, Tahm Kench, Zac... All champions that are either clunky, outdated, or niche with skills that aren't transferable to other champs.
Thresh is VERY popular. Naafiri is decently popular. Warwick is popular. Because they are way less niche and specific than your usual monster champ.
Apart from the fact that the champions you mentioned seemed all mixed up based on the stats from a site i looked at, I actually used to think that as well, but consider this:
1. Riot has much better access to the statistics based on which they make these assumptions.
2. The Chinese playerbase is probably at least 2 times as big as the rest of the servers combined. Which means that Riot is tailoring this game to the liking of Chinese fans.
EDIT: The Chinese are really not fans of monster champions (or even monster-adjacent champions) just so you know.
Also, those hyper niche champs if they got strong once they will cripple them next patch.
>Monster champs arent popular because their gameplay is incredibliy niche/outdated, just look at Naafiri and Warwick
Warwick and Naafiri are very easy, nobody uses them past certain ELOs. Being monsters doesnt have anything to do with their popularity.
I imagine that making good skins for monsters is harder/more work than humanoids. If it's not going to sell well and is harder to execute, then the smart business move is to only release those skins when you have an obviously brilliant design and focus more time on other things.
@@MichaelJones-rg3hv One of the most curious things about the subject is that, the release of skins varies from monster to monster.
Like, there is some rioters out there who seems to be a fan of Tahm Kench (He had 3 years with consecutive skins)
It seems like its not generalized dislike, or at least there are some exceptions. Why? IDK but ill be looking if TK gets his 4th consecutive skin this year
he is basically saying there are a lot of rich loosers that wouldnt notice 500$ off their pocket
The Ahri skin mess is so overblown. I don't see how this is any different than collectables in other hobbies. The actual object is never actually worth the price it is being sold at. You are literally buying exclusivity. There will never be a skin riot releases I will pay more than $25 for. And that's ok!
I find it tasteless to use Faker's legacy for this opportunity, but if people want to waste their money (which is an opinion) and want the status/exclusivity of the collectable then no harm no foul. It's not even a predatory structure either: the price is upfront.
All these half-baked takes about this skin actually got a dem soc rationalizing choices of a billion dollar corporation lmao. If you do not like what Riot is doing, just don't give them money. We saw this with the netflix boycott too. A lot of yapping and no conviction.
It is different for some reasons actually! So, using your example, lets say there's this baseball ball that is from wherever whenever, it is just a ball, but because of the ocasion of when the ball was played with it gains value, not only that but you can sell it in the future, and a very important part, when you get it, it is yours, the skin, however, it's not, you can't sell it, you cant do anything with it outside of the restrictions riot imposes by making it just superfaturated pixels. And on the contrary as you say, it does affect other people! Right now riot is testing how much people are willing to pay for cosmetics, so naturally they will push this limit as they can, when they find a confortable spot, a lot of people wont be able to buy the cool skins that they were once able to, in my country, for example, where league is for a lot of people one of the few games their pcs can handle, getting that skin is impossible, because it corresponds to literally half of someone's monthly salary. And by all means, good for riot! They are a company that should search for profit at the end of the day, but neither me nor you can invalidate someone's frustration for not being able to enjoy something they wished for.
Because it's purely digital goods (And not even that many or particularly high quality) that costs as much as a PS5, 2 real life statues of faker/ahri themselves or 8 AAA full priced high budget games (Compare how much effort was needed to make these 8 games over this skin).
@@ericoflonde but how is a $500 skin different from a $5 skin, in both instances you can't sell it.
also riot it very aware of the economic crisis in developing countries and prices their skins accordingly. They will get more expensive but you will be able to afford a reasonable amount
@@ericoflonde Whether or not you can sell it or not is irrelevant, but also you can and always have been able to sell accounts. And I disagree with your metaphysics of ownership lol. I'm not saying this skin is an NFT or something, but you can definitely own things that are not tangible.
"Right now riot is testing how much people are willing to pay for cosmetics, so naturally they will push this limit as they can, when they find a confortable spot, a lot of people wont be able to buy the cool skins that they were once able to"
No, this is just conjecture. At the very least riot has done nothing to indicate that this content is coming at the expense of cheaper content. Riot can both make overpriced mid skins as well as the usual 1350rp schlock they consistently pump out. If this skin actually ends up affecting the normal skins being produced, then I would see that as wrong but this idea is purely speculation at the moment.
"but neither me nor you can invalidate someone's frustration for not being able to enjoy something they wished for."
I mean you kinda can though because again the explicit point of the skin is the price point AKA exclusivity. Whether someone cannot afford it or realizes it isn't worth it both achieves this end. I just don't see anything particularly villainous about Riot catering content to their biggest markets.
I can sympathize with people not being able to afford the skin, but I think we need to look inward to desire itself.
Also if you look at TCGs and franchises like warframe, people in wealthier countries spend large amounts of money on their hobbies all the time. If there was a predatory or deceptive pricing structure, that would be one thing but the only thing compelling anyone in this case is FOMO.
@@c0n33r Yeah its a horrible deal, I agree. I guarantee you that riot makes much more money on popular skin lines like star guardian than they will on this skin. The value of the skin includes you and me not thinking it is worth the price.
In fact just googling... Star guardian taliyah (a relatively unpopular champ) made 6mil USD in 2022 lol. Not even factoring in the other skins in that batch.
The champs are balanced against the environments they are placed in. Putting SR designed champs into different map/game rule environments does not make sense.
It’s like saying “Hockey is a terrible game, trying to hit this puck with a tennis racket is frustrating and unfun”
It's not for hate but...
When asked about Ahri skin he responded in the default response, like a true NPC, probably being silenced.
That was the exact same response that they gave when the $200 Scamchromas were released
Between lines is clear to me " in this game are whales and we want to milk the whales"
I actually kind of find Augusts’ explanation on champ skins kind of dumb and like… no that is still a profit mindset that isn’t distinct from what he’s arguing against lmao. Especially because it kind of oversimplifies why players like things. Like, I doubt Lux or Ezreal would be as popular as they are, regardless of how appealing they look to e-girls, if they had anywhere near the same skill ceiling as Taliyah or the clunkiness of more dated champs like Sivir. Both looks and how they feel to play matters.
i can't take a dev srs that has not his own home office and sits in his bedroom with a winter hat ....
does this dude ever make his bed?
6v6 twisted treeline did exist, it was one of the hexakill variations, and it was pretty mid as a gamemode compared to others. I remember it vividly because I got permabanned on it for calling someone a cun* in chat when they denied me the hexakill and I died chasing them into their base. Still amazed at how little it took to get banned for like 5+ years before they finally gave up their cringey webkinz-esque censorship and toned it back. If only I could get some of my old permabanned friends back into league, but riot did permanent damage to their playerbase and reputation over those years.
Id much rather they bring back nexus blitz then try and make twisted treeline work
I want a mode that's nexus blitz without the events (small map with lots of fighting) so honestly bring back twisted treeline with more people. Don't see why we can't have both
Just leave the game modes up
You get the low attention span people out of yoloq
The best part of twisted treelines is that its LESS people.
5v5 is already way too many people.
Increasing the amount of people only makes it astronomically worse.
Also his "key issue" with hots is just wrong.
Everyone being generally around the same power level is part of why hots feels so good to play. Very rarely does hots give you the feeling of "i legit cannot do anything".
Which when youre 0/20 in league, you have that feeling.
Sure it doesnt have the extreme highs, but it also doesnt have the extreme lows. It creates a much more CONSISTENT experience for the player.
Its a true team vs team game showing the teams skill.
Rather than league where its a toss up on who gets fed and takes over the game
It is consistent but some people end up feeling it monotonous. The problem isn't the system itself but who it is aimed for, that is the average moba player whose tastes are already filtered for the existing games. The fact that you can be absolutely useless in one game makes the feeling when you're super fed and carrying that much stronger. Even in Pokemon Unite, designed as baby's first moba, being 3 levels above everyone with your lane opponent unable to fully evolve all match is a fun part of the experience because it could have happened to you, and even my little sister enjoys that dynamic.
HotS isn't inherently bad, it just has no good way of reaching a good amount of an appropriate target audience. It's a moba for people who don't like how current moba's work, which puts it in a niche it needs to find a way to organically and slowly grow, rather than being able to reach into the pool of LoL and DotA players and grab a chunk of them.
@yerielzamora hots was huge.
Still is comparable to smites playerbase if not bigger to this day.
So idk where this idea of hots being some small game came from but thats wrong.
Unfortunately its blizzard and is now mostly abandoned.
@@TheCosmicAstro- I didn't specifically say it was small, and "huge" in a moba context is LoL and Dota, not Smite. It's less of a matter of actual numbers and more about potential for continuous or even exponential growth of the playerbase. Compared to something like Valorant that constantly has Overwatch and CSGO players moving to it, HotS doesn't have that same drawing power. LoL players don't often wonder if they should try HotS the same way Overwatch players wonder if they should try Valorant.
@yerielzamora a lot of what you're saying is just a popularity thing.
Not a quality thing.
Valorant and CSGO are the lowest of the low.
Valorant is just a slightly cooler piece of shit cause it has characters and abilities.
But yes setting self up for growth and whatnot is good. But the thing is hots DID take a lot of moba players.
The problem is blizzard ruined it and now the game is abandoned. So it's not exactly a logical conclusion to try and talk about hots like it's being actively developed, marketed, etc.
But if we look at hots back in the day, it did all of the things you're saying it should/needed to do.
Bring back TTL...
The biggest L on HotS is that it got turned down to a state where its just playable.
I like these clips but man the format is aids
More convenient for shorts and faster edit times for more uploads🤷♂
Not as fancy, but more content
p.s. good covers btw 👌