I'm a beginner to lute and I've been following along with this series and it's been great! I'm really thankful. I was wondering if you have/know of any resource that shows each note on the fret board? Or an easy way of learning how to read sheet music with the lute. Thank you so much for your lovely teaching ✨️
@@Jaskiira Hi! The beginners guide from the LSA has a nice chart on page 14: storage.googleapis.com/lsa-files/wp-content/uploads/for-public/Beginners-Guide-Final.pdf As for reading standard notation, there aren’t a lot of great resources since tablature is generally what lutenists perform from but I do have an idea: I always advise students to make a standard notation score (on grand staff) of whatever piece they are working on. Generally, this is just for analysis but you could also set aside the tablature and instead learn directly from your transcription. Not only would you get more comfortable with the notes by making the transcription but then you would also learn the piece from it. I might start with easy things like single voice trebles and then move on to two voice pieces. I hope that helps!
A whole new world I've noted from afar, but sticking to thumb under for my 7cs 16 C. plucking. I've been following advice from a couple brilliant teachers, suggesting I keep the pinky attached stubbornly to the soundboard (probably because I have been lax 😔). I have managed to do that in the last several months, helped by other useful hints. Now I see at 10:50 you say lifting the pinky is normal for chords and really any non speedy passages. I have recently been doing that, playing more chord grounds and slower 2 voice ditties (Neusidler duets etc.). Is this pinky on - pinky off more for thumb out? I find myself doing it 'a needed'.
Great question! In that spot, I am actually talking about lifting additional planted fingers (like the ring finger and middle finger). That said, I do think that people get a bit stuck with their pinkies. Obviously, it is a good idea to first build a firm foundation where you can rely on that pinky for fast runs and extra security when playing repeated chords, but for advanced players, being able to lift the pinky off when trying to get different colors and attacks can be wonderful. Nigel North is a master of this. Take a look at this video of him playing Dowland: ruclips.net/video/bXb3zih2umw/видео.htmlsi=afga9pmtw8ezZwev. So, I would say that it is VERY important to first learn to play with it firmly planted and then you can add flexibility : ) Hope that helps!
Is thumb-under basically the position that would be used with a quill plectrum, except without the plectrum? I slip to thumb-out for the lower courses (I have an 8-course lute)
@@TheAlfonsovaldes essentially! Though bear in mind that plectrum use almost certainly continued into the 16th century and so there were likely thumb out players using them occasionally. Yes, I do find thumb out easier than under when playing instruments with more than seven courses as well! : )
interesting, I see now why so many chords are broken/arpeggiated on those big boy lutes, you just can't reach without naturally wanting to roll out of it I presume. on a 6 ( or 7) course why would you forfeit the octave in the basses even with modern strings just to facilitate runs. careful right hand fingering should avoid those annoying hops, it's usually just a scale. Were the octaves originally intended to supplement weak basses? they give the lute character I really enjoy. I've been stumbling with a thumb nail I need for guitar...your next video
Good question! The octaves were used to essentially "brighten" the basses and were meant to blend in with the "fundamental," or lute note, except in some specific, and really cool instances where they were meant to be emphasized (usually in the context of contrapuntal imitation). Toward the end of the 16th century it seems that unison basses were becoming more common. There may have been changes in string construction but the basses were also being used in more contrapuntal ways and the octaves do create issues there. The repertoire where the octaves bother me the most is Batchelor, Vallet, and some Dowland. The runs really do sound better with Batchelor and Vallet. That all said, did everyone stop using octaves by the end of the 16th century? I doubt it very much. We are going off of iconographic evidence and a very small number of sources.....probably much more likely that players had their preferences. So, if you like those octaves, keep em'! : )
Really helpful video, Laudon, many thanks! I have always REALLY struggled playing thumb out (odd coming from classical guitar). So, this video brings some really thoughtful ideas to mind. Even with 10c lute I tend to prefer jumping around more with my thumb: ruclips.net/video/NALkXWM4hMs/видео.html One thing I noticed is that my 10c has a pretty tight string spacing, I think this makes it easier to play thumb in (not constantly clunking the wrong string as I follow through the course). So much so that I am contemplating a new bridge with wider spacing. Do you have any thoughts on that? I am having a hard time telling if I am just making excuses, or if it really would be easier with a wider string spacings. Cheers, Neal
@@nealzshipe hi Neal! Great to hear from you : ) yeah, I do find that thumb under is a bit easier when the string spacing is closer but that might just be a personal thing. Are you thinking of diving in to thumb out? I do find it easier to jump back and forth between lute and guitar with thumb out so that is one advantage. I think I mentioned in the video that for whatever reason, I find my endurance is much better for my right hand with thumb out p and I alternation. Anyways, toss me an email if there is anything I can help you with! It’s definitely a slightly different world than thumb under : )
@@laudonschuett3019 I’ve tried diving into thumb-out technique a few times, but unsuccessfully, I must say. My 10c is actually a 10/11 conversion. To keep it short, I’ve had more than one unsuccessful attempt at playing French Baroque lute music, as well as the music of David Kellner (using thumb-out technique). I find myself in a really awkward hybrid RH position, lingering somewhere between thumb-out and thumb-in. I’ve never tried thumb-out with anything on a Renaissance lute. I’ll ask an additional question if you're up for it: Is it just me, or are RH arpeggios much more challenging on the lute than on the guitar? For instance, a simple continuous pimami (or any variations along these lines) on the lute feels very challenging for me to maintain for long stretches, whereas on the guitar, arpeggios feel so natural and easy. My RH guitar technique was rooted in the release technique-swinging from the top knuckle and letting the finger return to its relaxed state after plucking the string. When playing thumb out on the lute, feels almost impossible to maintain this relaxed state with the thumb potentially resting on courses 10 or 11 of the lute with ima way down on the trebles. So much tension. As a result, I think I end up jumping my thumb around unnecessarily to avoid that feeling.
@@nealzshipe Some great questions! Keep in mind that I've never had a serious interest in exploring beyond Vallet, Kapsberger, etc. and so obviously arpeggios are just a much smaller part of the vocabulary of the music I play. That said, I did play theorbo for some years. Whenever I had continuous arpeggios, I just lifted my pinky off the soundboard and drew my stability from resting the thumb on a bass string (very similar to a classical guitarist). Once the arpeggios were done, I would lower the pinky back down. Similar to you, I found the stretch between pinky and thumb to be prohibitive when playing arpeggios. I think the instructions concerning pinky planting that have survived to us today are really for beginners. It is an important technique to develop but once it is there are definitely moments where it makes a ton of sense to temporarily lift it. As for adjusting to thumb-out, I find that I need to use a very different sitting position than thumb under and I need to tilt the neck higher. Did you experiment with changing your sitting position and neck angle when you were playing thumb out? Cheers, Laudon
@@laudonschuett3019 That technique makes good sense, Laudon. I'll give it a shot. It did feel a bit more like clawing than a swift pluck when my thumb dropped way down. I do think sitting position is something I've long overlooked, so I am glad you bring that up. I've not experimented with it much. I did try the technique of sitting on a "tail" from the strap of the lute, which helps to prop it up at an angle. I think Nigel does this?
🤙it looks like this 🤙. This is Dowland’s hand🤙😆
🤣🤣🤣
I'm a beginner to lute and I've been following along with this series and it's been great! I'm really thankful. I was wondering if you have/know of any resource that shows each note on the fret board? Or an easy way of learning how to read sheet music with the lute. Thank you so much for your lovely teaching ✨️
@@Jaskiira Hi! The beginners guide from the LSA has a nice chart on page 14: storage.googleapis.com/lsa-files/wp-content/uploads/for-public/Beginners-Guide-Final.pdf As for reading standard notation, there aren’t a lot of great resources since tablature is generally what lutenists perform from but I do have an idea: I always advise students to make a standard notation score (on grand staff) of whatever piece they are working on. Generally, this is just for analysis but you could also set aside the tablature and instead learn directly from your transcription. Not only would you get more comfortable with the notes by making the transcription but then you would also learn the piece from it. I might start with easy things like single voice trebles and then move on to two voice pieces. I hope that helps!
@laudonschuett3019 Thank you so much! So happy I found your videos :)
@ thank you for watching!
A whole new world I've noted from afar, but sticking to thumb under for my 7cs 16 C. plucking. I've been following advice from a couple brilliant teachers, suggesting I keep the pinky attached stubbornly to the soundboard (probably because I have been lax 😔). I have managed to do that in the last several months, helped by other useful hints. Now I see at 10:50 you say lifting the pinky is normal for chords and really any non speedy passages. I have recently been doing that, playing more chord grounds and slower 2 voice ditties (Neusidler duets etc.). Is this pinky on - pinky off more for thumb out? I find myself doing it 'a needed'.
Great question! In that spot, I am actually talking about lifting additional planted fingers (like the ring finger and middle finger). That said, I do think that people get a bit stuck with their pinkies. Obviously, it is a good idea to first build a firm foundation where you can rely on that pinky for fast runs and extra security when playing repeated chords, but for advanced players, being able to lift the pinky off when trying to get different colors and attacks can be wonderful. Nigel North is a master of this. Take a look at this video of him playing Dowland: ruclips.net/video/bXb3zih2umw/видео.htmlsi=afga9pmtw8ezZwev. So, I would say that it is VERY important to first learn to play with it firmly planted and then you can add flexibility : ) Hope that helps!
@@laudonschuett3019 That clarifies that - glad I asked. I'll stick to it (mostly) and I'll check out Nigel. Many thanks!
Is thumb-under basically the position that would be used with a quill plectrum, except without the plectrum? I slip to thumb-out for the lower courses (I have an 8-course lute)
@@TheAlfonsovaldes essentially! Though bear in mind that plectrum use almost certainly continued into the 16th century and so there were likely thumb out players using them occasionally. Yes, I do find thumb out easier than under when playing instruments with more than seven courses as well! : )
interesting, I see now why so many chords are broken/arpeggiated on those big boy lutes, you just can't reach without naturally wanting to roll out of it I presume. on a 6 ( or 7) course why would you forfeit the octave in the basses even with modern strings just to facilitate runs. careful right hand fingering should avoid those annoying hops, it's usually just a scale. Were the octaves originally intended to supplement weak basses? they give the lute character I really enjoy. I've been stumbling with a thumb nail I need for guitar...your next video
Good question! The octaves were used to essentially "brighten" the basses and were meant to blend in with the "fundamental," or lute note, except in some specific, and really cool instances where they were meant to be emphasized (usually in the context of contrapuntal imitation). Toward the end of the 16th century it seems that unison basses were becoming more common. There may have been changes in string construction but the basses were also being used in more contrapuntal ways and the octaves do create issues there. The repertoire where the octaves bother me the most is Batchelor, Vallet, and some Dowland. The runs really do sound better with Batchelor and Vallet. That all said, did everyone stop using octaves by the end of the 16th century? I doubt it very much. We are going off of iconographic evidence and a very small number of sources.....probably much more likely that players had their preferences. So, if you like those octaves, keep em'! : )
Really helpful video, Laudon, many thanks! I have always REALLY struggled playing thumb out (odd coming from classical guitar). So, this video brings some really thoughtful ideas to mind. Even with 10c lute I tend to prefer jumping around more with my thumb:
ruclips.net/video/NALkXWM4hMs/видео.html
One thing I noticed is that my 10c has a pretty tight string spacing, I think this makes it easier to play thumb in (not constantly clunking the wrong string as I follow through the course). So much so that I am contemplating a new bridge with wider spacing. Do you have any thoughts on that? I am having a hard time telling if I am just making excuses, or if it really would be easier with a wider string spacings.
Cheers,
Neal
@@nealzshipe hi Neal! Great to hear from you : ) yeah, I do find that thumb under is a bit easier when the string spacing is closer but that might just be a personal thing. Are you thinking of diving in to thumb out? I do find it easier to jump back and forth between lute and guitar with thumb out so that is one advantage. I think I mentioned in the video that for whatever reason, I find my endurance is much better for my right hand with thumb out p and I alternation. Anyways, toss me an email if there is anything I can help you with! It’s definitely a slightly different world than thumb under : )
@@laudonschuett3019 I’ve tried diving into thumb-out technique a few times, but unsuccessfully, I must say. My 10c is actually a 10/11 conversion. To keep it short, I’ve had more than one unsuccessful attempt at playing French Baroque lute music, as well as the music of David Kellner (using thumb-out technique). I find myself in a really awkward hybrid RH position, lingering somewhere between thumb-out and thumb-in. I’ve never tried thumb-out with anything on a Renaissance lute.
I’ll ask an additional question if you're up for it: Is it just me, or are RH arpeggios much more challenging on the lute than on the guitar? For instance, a simple continuous pimami (or any variations along these lines) on the lute feels very challenging for me to maintain for long stretches, whereas on the guitar, arpeggios feel so natural and easy. My RH guitar technique was rooted in the release technique-swinging from the top knuckle and letting the finger return to its relaxed state after plucking the string. When playing thumb out on the lute, feels almost impossible to maintain this relaxed state with the thumb potentially resting on courses 10 or 11 of the lute with ima way down on the trebles. So much tension. As a result, I think I end up jumping my thumb around unnecessarily to avoid that feeling.
@@nealzshipe Some great questions! Keep in mind that I've never had a serious interest in exploring beyond Vallet, Kapsberger, etc. and so obviously arpeggios are just a much smaller part of the vocabulary of the music I play. That said, I did play theorbo for some years. Whenever I had continuous arpeggios, I just lifted my pinky off the soundboard and drew my stability from resting the thumb on a bass string (very similar to a classical guitarist). Once the arpeggios were done, I would lower the pinky back down. Similar to you, I found the stretch between pinky and thumb to be prohibitive when playing arpeggios. I think the instructions concerning pinky planting that have survived to us today are really for beginners. It is an important technique to develop but once it is there are definitely moments where it makes a ton of sense to temporarily lift it. As for adjusting to thumb-out, I find that I need to use a very different sitting position than thumb under and I need to tilt the neck higher. Did you experiment with changing your sitting position and neck angle when you were playing thumb out? Cheers, Laudon
@@laudonschuett3019 That technique makes good sense, Laudon. I'll give it a shot. It did feel a bit more like clawing than a swift pluck when my thumb dropped way down. I do think sitting position is something I've long overlooked, so I am glad you bring that up. I've not experimented with it much. I did try the technique of sitting on a "tail" from the strap of the lute, which helps to prop it up at an angle. I think Nigel does this?