THANK YOU for posting this replay! I was sad to miss it live because of a scheduling conflict. Love everything you do and happy to support you as my local feminist bookstore.
Relevant and important topic in today's day. While Virginia and Aubrey have no issues throwing medical professionals and Big Pharma under the bus, I didn't hear anything about multi-national food corporations willingly targeting children (those who "can't make their own decisions") in the name of taste, convenience, and profit. Not to mention, there are plenty of fat people who don't want to be fat and is detrimental to their well-being, namely those in disadvantaged communities who lack access to quality food. I bet Virginia and Aubrey have no problems affording whatever food they want. They also didn't directly address sufficiently why some in the body positive movement are pursuing thinness: because they couldn't "handle the pressure of being content creators"?
Strong by Lee - I definitely recommend that you listen to Aubrey's podcast 'Maintenance Phase'. Aubrey and Michael go into depth about how food inequality, food deserts, 'Big Food', etc actively promote food inequality and that the standard diet pushed on the most vulnerable in society isn't good enough. They also speak a lot about how the 'solutions' to these problems are unsustainable, and how many disadvantaged communities are practically demonised because they are not able to act in the 'right' way. E.g. A working mum with 3 jobs hasn't got time to prepare cheap, healthy food such as dried beans and grains because of the preparation that requires. For many of the most disadvantaged, choice is taken away, and both Aubrey and Michael recognise that. They also both go into more detail about how many people don't want to be fat for a variety of societal reasons and try to lose weight out of some form of pressure. However they don't comment on whether that's right or wrong, because ultimately we're all out here living in a society trying our best! This was only an hour session, so I highly recommend checking out some other material by Virginia and Aubrey to get the answers you seek.
31:20 -- NOT COOL, folks. Policing people for wanting to lose weight is a major deal-breaker when it comes to many of us signing on to this, as much as we want to end weight discrimination. Someone else's weight loss-- or gain-- should never, ever, EVER be "troubling" to you. It should be, and is, none of your business. If you "never need to hear about a weight loss journey again," I have a solution: don't go on one. We all agree, that's okay. Don't bring it up. LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE. Now, IF in the process of losing weight someone begins bullying, disparaging, or otherizing fat people, THEN that person is problematic, and we should talk about it. But if you talk of doing better, then... actually do better. Center people's behavior towards others, not their bodies. Nobody owes you thinness, and nobody owes you fatness. Get over it.
No, truly, you get over it. What they said wasn’t even that harsh, I’m willing to double down. I literally don’t think anyone should be trying to lose weight, and yes, if any of my friends make comments about trying to do so, I DO bring up anti-fat bias. YOU can get over it.
@levipierpont Is it possible that your friends who are trying to lose weight are responding to, not necessarily inflicting, anti-fat bias? The idea that not losing weight is some kind of praxis makes perfect sense in a 300-level class on post-structuralism... and literally nowhere else. I gave not losing weight a 3 year shot after COVID and I can tell you firsthand, my life did not materially benefit, nor did my fellow fat friends and loved ones benefit. Nobody else gaining or losing weight had any effect on my life whatsoever, either... sorry, Fouceault. I'm losing weight now, my bottom blood pressure number is going down, my bloodwork is much better, my love life is back on track, and not once have I ever been compelled to bully a fat person. But... what's right for me isn't necessarily what's right for you. I have friends in ED recovery where getting their lives back on track involves gaining weight. Their paths are valid, my path is valid, your path is valid. I can meet you at mutual respect. Why can't you meet me there?
At 16 minutes in when you are discussing making these decisions for 13-year-olds that will impact them for the rest of their lives, all I can think is how trans kids are being denied health care in the same system that fat kids are having these interventions forced on them whether they are ready or not. Doctors and parents can be very persuasive to a child of 13
There is a lot of truth to the body positive movement but sadly also a lot of lies and corruption by activist factions. I wish that the movement could prune out the thing that make it less acceptable to the majority of people.
Oh no, I would hate it if people trusted their own bodies too much. I’d hate it if people treated other people better and didn’t hold prejudice against each other.
THANK YOU for posting this replay! I was sad to miss it live because of a scheduling conflict. Love everything you do and happy to support you as my local feminist bookstore.
Great talk!
TY for hosting this fantastic, freely-ranging conversation & for posting it online!
Relevant and important topic in today's day. While Virginia and Aubrey have no issues throwing medical professionals and Big Pharma under the bus, I didn't hear anything about multi-national food corporations willingly targeting children (those who "can't make their own decisions") in the name of taste, convenience, and profit. Not to mention, there are plenty of fat people who don't want to be fat and is detrimental to their well-being, namely those in disadvantaged communities who lack access to quality food. I bet Virginia and Aubrey have no problems affording whatever food they want.
They also didn't directly address sufficiently why some in the body positive movement are pursuing thinness: because they couldn't "handle the pressure of being content creators"?
Strong by Lee - I definitely recommend that you listen to Aubrey's podcast 'Maintenance Phase'. Aubrey and Michael go into depth about how food inequality, food deserts, 'Big Food', etc actively promote food inequality and that the standard diet pushed on the most vulnerable in society isn't good enough. They also speak a lot about how the 'solutions' to these problems are unsustainable, and how many disadvantaged communities are practically demonised because they are not able to act in the 'right' way. E.g. A working mum with 3 jobs hasn't got time to prepare cheap, healthy food such as dried beans and grains because of the preparation that requires. For many of the most disadvantaged, choice is taken away, and both Aubrey and Michael recognise that.
They also both go into more detail about how many people don't want to be fat for a variety of societal reasons and try to lose weight out of some form of pressure. However they don't comment on whether that's right or wrong, because ultimately we're all out here living in a society trying our best!
This was only an hour session, so I highly recommend checking out some other material by Virginia and Aubrey to get the answers you seek.
I’m sorry they didn’t say exactly what you wanted them to say?
31:20 -- NOT COOL, folks. Policing people for wanting to lose weight is a major deal-breaker when it comes to many of us signing on to this, as much as we want to end weight discrimination. Someone else's weight loss-- or gain-- should never, ever, EVER be "troubling" to you. It should be, and is, none of your business.
If you "never need to hear about a weight loss journey again," I have a solution: don't go on one. We all agree, that's okay. Don't bring it up. LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE.
Now, IF in the process of losing weight someone begins bullying, disparaging, or otherizing fat people, THEN that person is problematic, and we should talk about it.
But if you talk of doing better, then... actually do better. Center people's behavior towards others, not their bodies.
Nobody owes you thinness, and nobody owes you fatness. Get over it.
No, truly, you get over it. What they said wasn’t even that harsh, I’m willing to double down. I literally don’t think anyone should be trying to lose weight, and yes, if any of my friends make comments about trying to do so, I DO bring up anti-fat bias. YOU can get over it.
@levipierpont Is it possible that your friends who are trying to lose weight are responding to, not necessarily inflicting, anti-fat bias?
The idea that not losing weight is some kind of praxis makes perfect sense in a 300-level class on post-structuralism... and literally nowhere else. I gave not losing weight a 3 year shot after COVID and I can tell you firsthand, my life did not materially benefit, nor did my fellow fat friends and loved ones benefit. Nobody else gaining or losing weight had any effect on my life whatsoever, either... sorry, Fouceault. I'm losing weight now, my bottom blood pressure number is going down, my bloodwork is much better, my love life is back on track, and not once have I ever been compelled to bully a fat person.
But... what's right for me isn't necessarily what's right for you. I have friends in ED recovery where getting their lives back on track involves gaining weight.
Their paths are valid, my path is valid, your path is valid. I can meet you at mutual respect. Why can't you meet me there?
Ooh enjoyed this a LOT! Super clever, thoughtful people
Amazing chat! Thanks for posting the replay. I also couldn't attend live.
So good to see Aubrey! Thank you for inviting her!
At 16 minutes in when you are discussing making these decisions for 13-year-olds that will impact them for the rest of their lives, all I can think is how trans kids are being denied health care in the same system that fat kids are having these interventions forced on them whether they are ready or not. Doctors and parents can be very persuasive to a child of 13
There is a lot of truth to the body positive movement but sadly also a lot of lies and corruption by activist factions. I wish that the movement could prune out the thing that make it less acceptable to the majority of people.
Oh no, I would hate it if people trusted their own bodies too much. I’d hate it if people treated other people better and didn’t hold prejudice against each other.