This rule applies to non E-bikes as well, as a road rider when I was younger a lot of people tried to push gears too big, (low cadence) the other thing with cadence is crank size makes a difference, longer cranks mean you can push slightly bigger gears with slightly low cadence, shorter cranks means you can achieve higher cadence etc
The sweet spot only applies for longer range. Mid drive bikes can be set to boost and pedal at a slower cadence and rider input. Not all climbs are best seated. This especially applies when riding up and over boulders.
I am a fat guy 6'3" 325lb, I started spinning instead of grinding and it really helped to take the pressure off my old knees and reduced fatigue in my legs. spin for the win :-)
I have a Levo ( Brose motor). I judge cadence in whatever mode I am in by the fact that the motor is completely silent and there is only minimal resistance on the cranks. If my cadence is too low the motor starts to make a slight noise and resistance on the cranks increases. All of that applies in ECO and Trail but in Turbo a high cadence always works best....higher than I would typically use in ECO or Trail. I always think as well that using the right cadence puts the least strain on all elements of the drivetrain.
I did do the whole #askembn a few weeks ago about why emtb's aren't restricted mechanically utilising the sprocket/cassette size and the rider's optimum cadence, instead of the computer software that tells the motor to restrict the rider at as certain measured speed.... It seems to me that there's probably a completely logical reason why the limiter is desgned the way it is, but I can't help feeling the motor would work better if speed was controlled by rider cadence via sprocket size and gear ratio. I have a Giant fathom e3 with nine gears, of which the last three are completely obsolete in conjunction with the motor and 25 kmph restriction. But, obviously the bike is designed to do 70kmph, at which point those last three gears would be needed. I don't need those three low gears, so I'll find a way to change the cassette so I've three higher gears to make climbing easier.... Just seems a bit stupid that Giant couldn't have thought of that IMO
I've been ebiking for more than a couple years, my Yamaha Syncdrive Sports 'high' mode is almost useless, the usable power band is very narrow, dependent on cadence and gear. There is a need for an indicator of the motors load and output, that won't happen as older stuff is immediately orphaned. Still it would be a good thing in newer bikes
Seems like it's just the same as for an acoustic bike - the sweet spot between grinding hard on the pedals and spinning madly... if you're in the right gear for the terrain you'll hit the sweet spot for the motor too
I'm new & I try but often find I'm in too easy a gear& when i shift to a harder it's to hard. Like the tip to find a road to practice on. I'll try that next time out. Thanks.
Did you know: on a Bosch CX when you stop for a rest (especially on a steep climb), you shouldn't "hold the bike" with your foot on the pedal. It engages the sensor and can result in an error code as the computer can think that the motor/wheel/crank is "stuck". Now on cadence: on the Bosch I noticed, that a high cadence can give you a very negative result too. First, the motor can turn on/off as with high cadence sometimes you are not exerting a lot of actual force. It can also drive the "EMTB" mode crazy, it will try to switch from it's levels and not know what to make of it. EMTB is something that auto-switches between eco/tour/sport/turbo (or similar levels) on demand. Low cadence climbing also sucks on the CX. You can choke the whole thing even in Turbo and then you are stuck. But that really only happens on the "I can barely walk up on" steep sections where losing your momentum will result in a "walk assist" where you use your bike as a cane :)
Damn... I can't say I've had any dodgy quirks from my Yam PW-SE system, Only that when you go above it's max cadence in whatever setting the power backs off until you change gear and bring it back down.. But that's like all ebikes I guess? If I hold the bike with my foot on the pedal, It just really wants to go because of the zero cadence start off lol
When climbing a short steep rock section sometimes I find it necessary to enter the section at a higher cadence so that when I hit the top portion of the tech section my cadence is slower than when I started the section but still high enough that it provides assistance to crest the top of the rock.
different motors have different sweet spots , the early yamahas were really low cadence compared to most other motors , depends on the motor timing relationship to outer and inner magnetic fields but one thing is certain, grinding in a high gear instead of spinning more freely puts your motor and battery in a world of hurt and should be avoided.
Really interesting video, as an older rider I struggle to achieve the suggested cadence levels on steeper climbs even in lowest gears. Is it not possible to alter the optimum cadence levels to address this issue
I have the Bosch CX and with a 16T front sprocket which is really 40T combined with an EX1 rear (11,13,15,18,24,32,40,48T).... I usually pedal at 90rpm which means the crappy EU cut off is achieved at approximately 85rpm in gear 18T... This is the highest geared cog of of the super expensive billet machined block of the 5 lowest gears... The cassette retails at about £450 but the 11,13 and 15 are available for £25 total! So the cheapest 3 parts are rarely ever used at the cadence I want as I've gone past the cut off and the effort is disproportionate to the speed unless going downhill with a tailwind.... Bet SRAM designed these cheaper replaceable parts with the US market in mind and their much more sensible 32kph/20mph limit!!! I could use the higher gears at a lower rpm but then I'd need to probably up the assistance and use more battery and to me it would feel garbage at a lower cadence...
You failed to point out the motors really have different sweet spots in each of the different power modes , well my Shimano 8000 does anyhow , in Eco the sweet spot is at a quite high cadence ( at a guess it would be 90 rpm ) and Trail mode is probably 10 - 15 rpm slower from a seat of the pants estimation and in Boost it is around another 10 - 15 rpm slower again for the maximum thrust from the motor assist . Or is it only my Norco sight that does this ?
none none It depends on how you look at it. Looking at Eco and Trail/Boost on the same climbs you can feel that way but in Trail and Boost you can ride much steeper climbs (the max output is the same in both modes but Boost raises the assist level earlier than Trail). If you want to ride the steepest possible climbs you need to keep it in the 80-90rpm range even in Trail/Boost modes as that’s the sweet spot for E8000 in my experience.
helenHTID On what system? The max assisted cadence don’t change on my E8000 and on my wife’s Yamaha PW. Regardless of the assist mode, the most efficient cadence is 80-90rpm on the E8000 and 70-75 on the PW.
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Do you try to maintain the optimum cadence when out on the trails? Let us know!
Yes, I try. I use the Wahoo cadence sensor on my shoe, I hope it's accurate.
I it possible to to convert my 2018 Turbo Levo (27.5) to 29"x 27.5"??
This rule applies to non E-bikes as well, as a road rider when I was younger a lot of people tried to push gears too big, (low cadence) the other thing with cadence is crank size makes a difference, longer cranks mean you can push slightly bigger gears with slightly low cadence, shorter cranks means you can achieve higher cadence etc
Was gonna ask for this video bet me to it brill !😁🙏, I listen to my motor tells me when I’m going through gears ⚙️ smooth every time !
The sweet spot only applies for longer range. Mid drive bikes can be set to boost and pedal at a slower cadence and rider input. Not all climbs are best seated. This especially applies when riding up and over boulders.
I am a fat guy 6'3" 325lb, I started spinning instead of grinding and it really helped to take the pressure off my old knees and reduced fatigue in my legs. spin for the win :-)
I have a Levo ( Brose motor). I judge cadence in whatever mode I am in by the fact that the motor is completely silent and there is only minimal resistance on the cranks. If my cadence is too low the motor starts to make a slight noise and resistance on the cranks increases. All of that applies in ECO and Trail but in Turbo a high cadence always works best....higher than I would typically use in ECO or Trail. I always think as well that using the right cadence puts the least strain on all elements of the drivetrain.
I did do the whole #askembn a few weeks ago about why emtb's aren't restricted mechanically utilising the sprocket/cassette size and the rider's optimum cadence, instead of the computer software that tells the motor to restrict the rider at as certain measured speed.... It seems to me that there's probably a completely logical reason why the limiter is desgned the way it is, but I can't help feeling the motor would work better if speed was controlled by rider cadence via sprocket size and gear ratio.
I have a Giant fathom e3 with nine gears, of which the last three are completely obsolete in conjunction with the motor and 25 kmph restriction. But, obviously the bike is designed to do 70kmph, at which point those last three gears would be needed.
I don't need those three low gears, so I'll find a way to change the cassette so I've three higher gears to make climbing easier.... Just seems a bit stupid that Giant couldn't have thought of that IMO
I've been ebiking for more than a couple years, my Yamaha Syncdrive Sports 'high' mode is almost useless, the usable power band is very narrow, dependent on cadence and gear. There is a need for an indicator of the motors load and output, that won't happen as older stuff is immediately orphaned. Still it would be a good thing in newer bikes
Seems like it's just the same as for an acoustic bike - the sweet spot between grinding hard on the pedals and spinning madly... if you're in the right gear for the terrain you'll hit the sweet spot for the motor too
Agree with this.. but.. Whoever came up with the term acoustic bike should be beaten with a hammer.
I'm new & I try but often find I'm in too easy a gear& when i shift to a harder it's to hard. Like the tip to find a road to practice on. I'll try that next time out. Thanks.
Cadence with torque settings sound good.
Good video, BUT... You might have added what the effects are on the battery of being in the WRONG cadence. Please add to the next video.. TNKS
Did you know: on a Bosch CX when you stop for a rest (especially on a steep climb), you shouldn't "hold the bike" with your foot on the pedal. It engages the sensor and can result in an error code as the computer can think that the motor/wheel/crank is "stuck".
Now on cadence: on the Bosch I noticed, that a high cadence can give you a very negative result too. First, the motor can turn on/off as with high cadence sometimes you are not exerting a lot of actual force. It can also drive the "EMTB" mode crazy, it will try to switch from it's levels and not know what to make of it. EMTB is something that auto-switches between eco/tour/sport/turbo (or similar levels) on demand.
Low cadence climbing also sucks on the CX. You can choke the whole thing even in Turbo and then you are stuck. But that really only happens on the "I can barely walk up on" steep sections where losing your momentum will result in a "walk assist" where you use your bike as a cane :)
Damn... I can't say I've had any dodgy quirks from my Yam PW-SE system, Only that when you go above it's max cadence in whatever setting the power backs off until you change gear and bring it back down.. But that's like all ebikes I guess? If I hold the bike with my foot on the pedal, It just really wants to go because of the zero cadence start off lol
Well done Chris, like the background music too..
When climbing a short steep rock section sometimes I find it necessary to enter the section at a higher cadence so that when I hit the top portion of the tech section my cadence is slower than when I started the section but still high enough that it provides assistance to crest the top of the rock.
Philip Rode just change a gear?
different motors have different sweet spots , the early yamahas were really low cadence compared to most other motors , depends on the motor timing relationship to outer and inner magnetic fields but one thing is certain, grinding in a high gear instead of spinning more freely puts your motor and battery in a world of hurt and should be avoided.
Peddle smarter, not harder!
E-bikes!
Really interesting video, as an older rider I struggle to achieve the suggested cadence levels on steeper climbs even in lowest gears. Is it not possible to alter the optimum cadence levels to address this issue
I have the Bosch CX and with a 16T front sprocket which is really 40T combined with an EX1 rear (11,13,15,18,24,32,40,48T).... I usually pedal at 90rpm which means the crappy EU cut off is achieved at approximately 85rpm in gear 18T... This is the highest geared cog of of the super expensive billet machined block of the 5 lowest gears... The cassette retails at about £450 but the 11,13 and 15 are available for £25 total! So the cheapest 3 parts are rarely ever used at the cadence I want as I've gone past the cut off and the effort is disproportionate to the speed unless going downhill with a tailwind.... Bet SRAM designed these cheaper replaceable parts with the US market in mind and their much more sensible 32kph/20mph limit!!! I could use the higher gears at a lower rpm but then I'd need to probably up the assistance and use more battery and to me it would feel garbage at a lower cadence...
I reckon you could lift your seat height 5 to 10cm and save your knees and hammies
Alan David was thinking the same thing. He wasn’t getting a good leg extension at all
Top tips Chris.
Sweet tunes
So, low cadeance would be anaerobic and high cadeance would be aerobic?
Power band !
You failed to point out the motors really have different sweet spots in each of the different power modes , well my Shimano 8000 does anyhow , in Eco the sweet spot is at a quite high cadence ( at a guess it would be 90 rpm ) and Trail mode is probably 10 - 15 rpm slower from a seat of the pants estimation and in Boost it is around another 10 - 15 rpm slower again for the maximum thrust from the motor assist . Or is it only my Norco sight that does this ?
none none It depends on how you look at it. Looking at Eco and Trail/Boost on the same climbs you can feel that way but in Trail and Boost you can ride much steeper climbs (the max output is the same in both modes but Boost raises the assist level earlier than Trail). If you want to ride the steepest possible climbs you need to keep it in the 80-90rpm range even in Trail/Boost modes as that’s the sweet spot for E8000 in my experience.
helenHTID On what system? The max assisted cadence don’t change on my E8000 and on my wife’s Yamaha PW. Regardless of the assist mode, the most efficient cadence is 80-90rpm on the E8000 and 70-75 on the PW.
I was sent to Cadence Sensor to attach to my bike and I don't know how to attach it. No directions
Your E-bike motor = motor bike he said it not me
1st
🏆