Thanks for the update Philip. Having grown up and lived a long life in Melbourne, I'm a real tram person. When we've been away, coming back to the old familiar sound of trams is a blessing.
Hi Philip, nice video! Here's a few things I think are worth mentioning: - By referring them to the 7th generation, I suspect they are counting the Z class as the first. While there were many wooden bodied trams before the Z class, it is widely understood within tramway circles that the Z class was the first of the modern trams. Even so, they are still skipping F. I suspect this is entirely marketing as they didn't want to deal with any "F is for Fail" slogans, and wanted instead to have many "G is for Great", "Next G(eneration) Tram" etc slogans. - The A class is mechanically and electrically closer to a Z than a B class, and were originally to be called the Z4 class. Hence why it makes sense to retire the A class with the Z class. - (edit, I’ve been corrected on the following statement. I’m keeping it in for clarity) The route 82 which the new depot will be built to connect to has head shunts only long enough for a Z class (not even an A). These will need to be lengthened to fit the new G class. - They have learnt from their mistakes from the E class, that is making trams that were way too big and power hungry for the network, requiring extensive and costly upgrades to infrastructure.
Regarding the route 82 terminus, you can actually fit two Z3 classes into the tram stop platform. railgallery.wongm.com/melbourne-trams-north-west-suburbs/E114_3807.jpg.html Or a full E class. railgallery.wongm.com/e-class-tram-trials/F105_8925.jpg.html
@@philipmallis I've expanded on my previous comment above to explain the rationale of the generations, as confirmed by the project team. In case you're interested in the reasoning (could be handy for a future video). I couldn't work out how to tag you there directly.
Great video! also fantastic to see that we're keeping manufacturing within Australia. Can't wait to see these replace the A and Z class trams on my route
Great video! We too are very interested in these new trams. There hasn’t been any clear specific on how heavy they are. If greater than the A or Z classes (or even the E-class), then strengthening of Melbourne bridges are necessary to replace the trams on the routes that have these older classes.
That is one interpretation but I suspect they are more likely referring to generations since the Z class (widely considered our first "modern" tram). Z, A, B, C, D, E, G.
@@FloydBromley it's the definition from people who are working on the project, from our earliest horse trams right up to today. What you have listed are just classes.
@@damocooper4177 I guess there are mutable ways of interpreting it. And they will pick whichever definition suits them best. The "generations" you listed seem fairly arbitrary. Why count all wooden bodied trams as the same apart from the W class? You could argue there have been 8 generations just within W class. I haven't seen any official listings either way, unless you can point me to one?
@@FloydBromley A generation is a group of people, family members, tech items, etc, that date from the same time period and/or share commonality. You are simply listing class letters and sub types and separating them very arbitrarily. Those are not generations, they are classes. The classes differ but often share aspects with others and combine to form a generation. A class and a generation are two separate things. The horse and cable trams are a generation because they predate everything else which was electric. The early electric trams are a generation because they were all constructed around the same time by a group of tramway companies, with very similar technology. The W class is separate, because it was the first tram from a consolidated single operator. Each subtype shares most aspects of its design and technology with the previous subtypes, which is why this is a single generation. This generation lasted 30 years and is Melbourne's most iconic tram, so you can't ignore it. The Z/A/B class trams are our first modern trams, again sharing design elements and technology. The A is an evolution of the Z, and the B is an evolution of the A. This is why they are a single generation. The C and D class trams emerged at the same time, both as off the shelf products from Europe, with very few customisations for Melbourne. This is why these are a generation. The E class is a separate generation, as it returns to being a tram designed in Melbourne, for Melbourne, separating it from the C and D class. The G class is a generation, because it is designed so that it can run everywhere, unlike the E class which was designed specifically for only a few lines. The entire network is already capable of running the G. This separates it from the E class, as well as the C and D classes. These are the 7 generations. How do I know this? Firstly it's fairly clear when you think about what they would be. But secondly, I know people working on this project, and they have confirmed to me that the 7 generations I listed above are correct.
Seeing people mention how ugly they think the G class looks, and I do agree it could be much better. But- stick with me for a moment, they almost seem to pay homage to the Z and A class with the shape of the driver's cabin. Either way, it looks far better than the proposed X'trapolis 2.0 design, I'm sure we can agree on that.
the front "chin" is designed to strike a pedestrian on the lower legs, rather than higher up on the body like the waist or chest which is a lot more likely to cause serious injury or even death
I hope that people enjoy the tram, I am 75 always had the tram in front of my front door in Keilor road Essendon.... after 73 years there, I left 2 years ago, never to return, I am in a Darwin suburb, very happy. Away from.....
I think what the Department of Transport meant by it being the seventh generation of tram is that they'll be the seventh current generation, meaning trams that are still operating as of 2023 (including the Z3 class), so that may be what they were referring to.
If it's based on the flexity hopefully they haven't copied the rubber block suspension like the flexity units we got in Adelaide. They cannot tolerate cross level particularly mid curve where the unit will just drive off the rails as the length of the consist has no torsional twist allowance and the suspension lacks the travel to conform to cross level change. We ended up with a concrete pier 400 MM high at the busiest intersection in Adelaide to stop the tram driving off the track.
The E Class have a body shell based on the Flexity Swift, which is why they are classed under that family, but mechanically they are much more similar to the Flexity 2.
@@philipmallis I asked the question because years ago when I did a "behind the scenes tour of a tram construction" I was told there was a problem with the tram grid system accepting the widely varying and pulsing nature of the regen current back from the trams (ie. if there was no other tram immediately able to consume the current from a braking tram they got a voltage peaking overload on the grid) and they had disabled the original regen systems in consequence - I'm hoping either a) that was rubbish or b) the situation is now solved. Thanks again for your nice channel
I've never heard of a tram getting to 100 kmh under its own power, anywhere in the world! The most I've seen is 80 kmh on the light rail / Metrolink in Manchester, England, and about 70 kmh in Hong Kong. Melbourne trams "bottom out" at 67 kmh in the case of a B2. (I'm not a driver but have had "behind the scenes" experiences on trams out of public service)
I don't think a tram would ever hit 100km/h anywhere on the network. an E-Class could probably hit their top speed of 80km/h on the St Kilda light rail, but there aren't many other opportunities to hit the top speed
@@soulsphere9242 AFAIK, yes. I only saw 6001 delivered. Unfortunately I wasn't thinking of videoing at the time, and can't post photos here. I suggest going to Facebook and joining the popular "Trams Downunder" group. I post occasionally under my real name as opposed to my channel name.
Its all well and good to have higher capacity trams, but does that mean we have to wait longer 'til one comes along?--Its good for peak hours, most certainly,but during the ebb hours?
I watched a video somewhere that had a tram with the wheels installed vertically within the flexible parts, which avoids having seats raised above the wheel wells. Why aren't we heading more towards designs like that?
Thanks for the info, just one thing they look like the dodgy new trains we have in Melbourne, can the please get the P.A's to work, and the doors to open too, would be great. Thanks.
@@Alexander_Dunn All good, they're part of the same overall group of designs from Bombardier (Flexity) with several sub-types that have developed over the years. Swift is a bit older and Flexity 2 has some features that the Swift does not. Overview here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Flexity and this is the official Flexity 2 brochure: lrt.daxack.ca/LRTvsHRT/TransitCity/FLEXITY2.pdf
Hi Rico, my understanding from the earlier information about the G-class was the need to introduce a medium-capacity vehicle to use on other routes. The G-class is also based on a newer model so has features that builds on the lessons learned from the E-class operations - in particular issues with energy use.
Good question, not sure. They've said that they route allocations are still to be worked out. But given that the 64/67 operate Zs, I'd say there's a good chance of at least some of them being used along that corridor. The reorganisation of routes post-Metro Tunnel in 2025 may also have an impact on what happens.
Nothing that I'm aware of, the DTP information webpage still shows the first G-class trams should commence operation in 2025: dtp.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/next-generation-trams
Hi Kevin, DoT's website says that they will be manufactured in Victoria: transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/next-generation-trams
C2 aren't too bad. But there's only 5 of those! Whoever designed the D-class seating at each end of the tram, next to the big white plastic looking bench height walls, must've had really small feet. Even where there's a single seat only, can even put feet flat on floor (i'm only average foot size). One advantage of the D-Class though - if really tired or had a big night, those bench like things are great for sleeping against &/or leaning against for support :P lol. Would be probably be better to rip those 1 person only seats/sections out, which would allow more standing room & that's quite low on D's, also
@@Clove_Parma you must not be thinking straight, the C and D's are not only rough and not designed for Melbourne's network, their seats are tiny and on the D's there are barely any seats at all! The Z A and B's were actually were designed and built for our network and ride well on our tracks, and their seats are well padded unlike their more modern European counterparts.
@@Clove_Parma The B2 class are a great tram, it's just that stupid bum seating they got a few years ago that ruins them. Z3 and A1/A2 are showing their limitations at 40 or more years old.
These trams need conductors and so do trains. Far too many instances of passengers being injured boarding or alighting both. Not to mention security. Remember in the 90s at night,. only the first train carriage was available of a three car train? Love your videos, such a niche market but very interesting.
Hopefully they are self draining so unlike other trams you won't be standing in what is probably just spilled drink but could also be piss. Hopefully they are long enough so any town a couple of kays outside the CBD still has enough room instead of trams already been full by St Kilda East so that you have to take a train or drive to work anyway.
I take the tram daily to get to work. Honestly, it's so expensive for public transportation, it makes no sense. It's actually cheaper to drive my car but because it was hit by a tram it's been stuck in a repair shop for 4 months. Trams seem to win regardless
I'd do your calculations re cot of owning / running a car again. The hidden costs make car ownership / operation quite expensive. you notice this when you don't own a car!
Make sure you're accounting for service, replacement parts and, depreciation and insurance costs when accounting for expense! It may be cheaper on certain routes as long as you have free parking but it's a no brainer for anyone working in the CBD!
Try living in Brisbane as we have the most expensive PT fares in Australia. We get charged extra for travelling in peak hour and are probably the only state in Australia that does that.
@@brisbanepublictransportvlogs18 Victoria isn't cheap, but it's cost effective, in my view. We too have peak and off-peak fares on PTV services, as does Sydney on its trains, buses and ferries (Its trams are a joke!).
I don't think so. There are many things with -class around the world, including previous tram classes of Melbourne, that Mercedes-Benz and others are presumably fine with given that they haven't sued before.
I don't care about getting new trams Yarra Trams HAVE TO DEAL WITH People who leave their rubbish on the seats when they leave the vehical, People who vomit on the floor (had that done in frount of me a few times) stupid announcements are not welcomed, on just that the current voice (2/5/22) is REALLY annoying,and so is Don from the rolling stock P.O. YARRA TRAMS "GET SOME NEW SOFTWARE" BTW Why is there 2 "SMITH ST" on the 86 line?
Now I just wish they would relocate the overhead tram wires to within the tracks like what Sydney have done. Hate the look of the excessive wires everywhere.
This will never happen!!!! Sydney's George St line was only done to appease the Greens It's not cost effective, and even the new G class trams will not be set up to be battery-electric. Overhead wires are a normal part of tramways all over the world. Furthermore, there was a massive hole in the ground at King and George Sts for many months while the equipment was built and installed. Can we afford Swanston St to be devoid of tram services while we do similar? I think not!
there would be tens of thousands more cars on the road if those trams weren't there and everybody had to drive, so you should be grateful that you're only being slightly delayed rather than being stuck in endless gridlock
wrong of you to assume I'm a regular watcher. this is the 1st one I've seen so don't make comments on whether I'm subscribed. rude to make presumptions like that.
I still choose to believe my "F class tram" April Fools joke was the reason they went straight to G class. (For anybody who didn't see it I made a fake press release of a 5 segment E class that I called "F class")
If you mean the C2 class "Bumblebees" that are captive to Route 96, it won't happen! The government gave in a few years ago and finally bought them after many years of just paying the lease fee, even after the lease expired. It became more expensive to send them back to France (Mulhouse) than to keep them here.
I HATE fucking trams. I have lived in Melbourne for 20 years, and I can't believe that people here still don't understand the difference between trams and buses. Buses pull over to stop. Trams stop in the middle of the road and block all traffic. Not to mention special traffic light sequences. They seriously interfere with traffic flow in Melbourne, not just private cars but all commercial vehicles.
Your 100% right. How can trams be environmentally friendly when they cause car traffic to stop & accelerate over & over again. This increases fuel use by ten times what is needed to cover the same distance without disruption. Trams should accelerate slowly & be held to 40 kmh speed limit to let car traffic pass, reduce congestion & reduce pollution from car exhaust. New trams that are bigger & faster wear out tram tracks quicker as well. All road users should be taken into account.
We need more smaller trams with more tram drivers. E class is so big that when it brakes down nothing can move it except another E class, this means no movement on the line for 1hr. People at the rear of E class can't get off when tram is full because of no rear door & driver unaware due to length of tram. Bigger trams need bigger tram stops which we don't have. These large trams are not suitable for maximum capacity use and have to many cost cutting features like lack of buttons to exit and now no opening windows on G class. Should be renamed C class for cost cutting & clearly not disability friendly. Everyone stands in disable section.
We don't need small trams, and we don't need opening windows! We need fast loading/unloading trams with air con systems that can cool/heat a tram quickly! The D2 class seemed to be pretty good with 200 passengers aboard, and the E class also do alright. The B2 class air con has issues as people open the windows, and the air conditioning can't cope!! I've been on a D2 in Elizabeth St a few months ago with no air-con, and it was dreadful!
Fresh air beats no A/C in summer. One 19 route tram had A/C on only half the tram for 3 years every summer and Yarra Trams would not fix it. Privatization at fault. Need government hot line to report issues.
@@robertnicholson1409 I agree, but its used so commonly its become part of most/many peoples vocabulary which is how words become words basically. For example simples, transgender or copypasta
I just have 1 question. Why does it take so long to build these things? Enough with the mock ups. Just build them as fast as possible. We need 500 new trams not a pathetic 100. Also we need new trains too. They are being delivered way too slowly for my liking. We need them ASAP.
From what I know about rolling stock design (which admittedly isn't very much), there is a lot to put into the project. Every tram network is different in terms of infrastructure type/condition, gauge, operating environment, climate, and many other things. Buying vehicles 'off the shelf' typically doesn't work very well. The C1-class tram was an attempt to do this, and it's pretty generally acknowledged now that the old process was a bad idea. Other trams that are designed for local environments - including the older Comeng-manufactured trams or even before that - tend to perform better, last longer and be better for passengers.
@@philipmallis I totally agree with you. However I just wish they would build 100s of new trams & trains. Not just small orders here or there. Have a program where we are building 20 or so trains & trams each year for the next 10-15 years. The D1 & D2 trams are nearly 20 years old now. Surely we need to plan for their replacement now & have orders in the pipeline.
I swear I remember replying to this ages ago but my comment doesn't show up, anyway the G-Class trams will be able to be extended to 5 carriages, possibly even to 7, which would make them even higher-capacity than the E-Class trams, but it really depends on how busy the line they're rostered to is. it's also possible that the order will be increased from 100 to 260, which would either allow the retirement of the B-Class trams (unfortunate because they're very good and reliable trams despite them being old and high-floor) or much higher frequencies as there'd be more trams available, but not both
one thing I do love about the older trams are those little windows you can open
Thanks for the update Philip. Having grown up and lived a long life in Melbourne, I'm a real tram person. When we've been away, coming back to the old familiar sound of trams is a blessing.
You need to see a shrink.
does this mean the west is finally getting tram network expansion with the new maidstone hub?? very exciting!!
No. Line extensions may occur but no new routes or significant extensions likely
Y?
We should give away the West to Russia...
They should rebuild the old line to Williamstown Road Yarraville from the current Footscray terminus. I don't know why they ever closed it down.
New G class trams on the 57 and 82 routes from the new to be built Maidstone depot.
They are a few weeks ago I saw people building a new tram line in ballrat
Great work by builders Duncan and Fraser an AUSTRALIAN owned and operated manufacturing company in Adelaide.
Those Gold Coast trams are sweet.
Hi Philip, nice video! Here's a few things I think are worth mentioning:
- By referring them to the 7th generation, I suspect they are counting the Z class as the first. While there were many wooden bodied trams before the Z class, it is widely understood within tramway circles that the Z class was the first of the modern trams. Even so, they are still skipping F. I suspect this is entirely marketing as they didn't want to deal with any "F is for Fail" slogans, and wanted instead to have many "G is for Great", "Next G(eneration) Tram" etc slogans.
- The A class is mechanically and electrically closer to a Z than a B class, and were originally to be called the Z4 class. Hence why it makes sense to retire the A class with the Z class.
- (edit, I’ve been corrected on the following statement. I’m keeping it in for clarity) The route 82 which the new depot will be built to connect to has head shunts only long enough for a Z class (not even an A). These will need to be lengthened to fit the new G class.
- They have learnt from their mistakes from the E class, that is making trams that were way too big and power hungry for the network, requiring extensive and costly upgrades to infrastructure.
Great thanks for that information!
Agreed
Regarding the route 82 terminus, you can actually fit two Z3 classes into the tram stop platform.
railgallery.wongm.com/melbourne-trams-north-west-suburbs/E114_3807.jpg.html
Or a full E class.
railgallery.wongm.com/e-class-tram-trials/F105_8925.jpg.html
@@wongm interesting. I was always under the impression that it could only fit a Z, so that’s why only Zs ran the route 82. Good to know!
@@philipmallis I've expanded on my previous comment above to explain the rationale of the generations, as confirmed by the project team. In case you're interested in the reasoning (could be handy for a future video). I couldn't work out how to tag you there directly.
Interesting video, you were the first to make a full video about G class trams, also I like the graph at 0:43, cool
In my student days, I lived almost precisely (within metres) where the pin was located for the new Maidstone depot.
Oh, to get inside that razor wire fence...
Nice work, Philip. 😉
Great to hear. Loved our cities trams 🚃
Great video! also fantastic to see that we're keeping manufacturing within Australia. Can't wait to see these replace the A and Z class trams on my route
NSW are shamefully still buying their trams from O/seas!
Ha, my dad works there, he actually approves/signs off on the engineering plans of the trams.
Thanks for the update.
Great video! We too are very interested in these new trams. There hasn’t been any clear specific on how heavy they are. If greater than the A or Z classes (or even the E-class), then strengthening of Melbourne bridges are necessary to replace the trams on the routes that have these older classes.
I believe 50 metric ton or so. its foot pressure that counts for bridges. A 60 ton MBT cant cross certain bridges, but a 60 ton road train can.
@@1mmickk Yes. It would be nice to know if the foot pressure has increased.
Thanks Philip for a great video.
My grandson loves trams. #BeTramspired
I love trams too
Very good compilation, well done to you for your research!
Great video as usual Philip
The 7 generations of tram are:
Horse/cable trams
Early electric trams
W class
Z/A/B class
C/D class
E class
G class
That is one interpretation but I suspect they are more likely referring to generations since the Z class (widely considered our first "modern" tram). Z, A, B, C, D, E, G.
@@FloydBromley it's the definition from people who are working on the project, from our earliest horse trams right up to today. What you have listed are just classes.
@@damocooper4177 I think Floyd is right, how come on the windows of the E class it says the “new generation” as well as being a new class?
@@damocooper4177 I guess there are mutable ways of interpreting it. And they will pick whichever definition suits them best. The "generations" you listed seem fairly arbitrary. Why count all wooden bodied trams as the same apart from the W class? You could argue there have been 8 generations just within W class. I haven't seen any official listings either way, unless you can point me to one?
@@FloydBromley A generation is a group of people, family members, tech items, etc, that date from the same time period and/or share commonality. You are simply listing class letters and sub types and separating them very arbitrarily. Those are not generations, they are classes. The classes differ but often share aspects with others and combine to form a generation. A class and a generation are two separate things.
The horse and cable trams are a generation because they predate everything else which was electric.
The early electric trams are a generation because they were all constructed around the same time by a group of tramway companies, with very similar technology.
The W class is separate, because it was the first tram from a consolidated single operator. Each subtype shares most aspects of its design and technology with the previous subtypes, which is why this is a single generation. This generation lasted 30 years and is Melbourne's most iconic tram, so you can't ignore it.
The Z/A/B class trams are our first modern trams, again sharing design elements and technology. The A is an evolution of the Z, and the B is an evolution of the A. This is why they are a single generation.
The C and D class trams emerged at the same time, both as off the shelf products from Europe, with very few customisations for Melbourne. This is why these are a generation.
The E class is a separate generation, as it returns to being a tram designed in Melbourne, for Melbourne, separating it from the C and D class.
The G class is a generation, because it is designed so that it can run everywhere, unlike the E class which was designed specifically for only a few lines. The entire network is already capable of running the G. This separates it from the E class, as well as the C and D classes.
These are the 7 generations. How do I know this? Firstly it's fairly clear when you think about what they would be. But secondly, I know people working on this project, and they have confirmed to me that the 7 generations I listed above are correct.
incredibly happy you mentioned wroclaw. to me it's got a very similar vibe to melbourne, so it's quite a good parallel
I can confirm your Polish pronunciation was perfect.
Finally Melbourne has found a replacement to the Aging Comeng Z & A Class trams of the 1970s-1980s.
E class is beautiful tram and loves to hear ding ding from E class
Seeing people mention how ugly they think the G class looks, and I do agree it could be much better.
But- stick with me for a moment, they almost seem to pay homage to the Z and A class with the shape of the driver's cabin.
Either way, it looks far better than the proposed X'trapolis 2.0 design, I'm sure we can agree on that.
Because of the front? Which is designed to deter train Surfers
@@stopsallmelb Train surfers?
@@richardchantlerrico people that climb onto the front or back of the train, a sloping design like on hmct and xtrap 2. Stops this
@@stopsallmelb I've never heard of this occuring, anyone that does is an idiot asking for a fatal accident.
the front "chin" is designed to strike a pedestrian on the lower legs, rather than higher up on the body like the waist or chest which is a lot more likely to cause serious injury or even death
That’s a good looking tram
Finally ur talking about my state
I hope that people enjoy the tram, I am 75 always had the tram in front of my front door
in Keilor road Essendon.... after 73 years there, I left 2 years ago, never to return, I am
in a Darwin suburb, very happy. Away from.....
Away from Melbourne bullshit.
Useful information - thank you - but not sure what the point of being 'on location' was as nothing at the site was shown.
Thanks. I happened to be in the area for an unrelated reason so I figured I might as well bring my camera along
Huge fan and love your niche transport videos
question, will they have the same Voise over for the tram stops like the A and C classes
because I love numbers and this would be amazing as the D and E classes don't say the stop number when arriving at the stop or even when at the stop
Good question! Not sure, that information hasn't been released yet. We'll probably have to wait to see when the first one is delivered.
There are so many stickers on the the tram windows I struggle locate where I am.
But the OG trams are the best 😭 so many high school memories 😂
Lovely mate..
Finally Trams in VIC are changing soon..
Left Melbourne Nov 2 2019 before 1st covid lockdown.
Cheers,
Pradeep.
Pollachi,Tamilnadu.
I think what the Department of Transport meant by it being the seventh generation of tram is that they'll be the seventh current generation, meaning trams that are still operating as of 2023 (including the Z3 class), so that may be what they were referring to.
If it's based on the flexity hopefully they haven't copied the rubber block suspension like the flexity units we got in Adelaide. They cannot tolerate cross level particularly mid curve where the unit will just drive off the rails as the length of the consist has no torsional twist allowance and the suspension lacks the travel to conform to cross level change. We ended up with a concrete pier 400 MM high at the busiest intersection in Adelaide to stop the tram driving off the track.
The E Class have a body shell based on the Flexity Swift, which is why they are classed under that family, but mechanically they are much more similar to the Flexity 2.
The G-Class looks nice.
bit late to watch this but i loved the video!
Those high floors are on my line 70
I would hope they will build out more tram lines out in the west...
Can you experts tell me which classes of tram do regenerative braking? I’m hoping most of them have been doing that for a while?
I believe that all trams except W-class are equipped with regenerative braking. I could be wrong though if anyone wants to correct me!
@@philipmallis I asked the question because years ago when I did a "behind the scenes tour of a tram construction" I was told there was a problem with the tram grid system accepting the widely varying and pulsing nature of the regen current back from the trams (ie. if there was no other tram immediately able to consume the current from a braking tram they got a voltage peaking overload on the grid) and they had disabled the original regen systems in consequence - I'm hoping either a) that was rubbish or b) the situation is now solved. Thanks again for your nice channel
so, what is the 0-100 time on the g? sub 5 seconds would be a total w! would love to see a tram take on gti's and r's at the lights!
When do our trams ever do 100? Maybe some get to 80 on separated sections but 0-60 would be far more important than 0-100
I've never heard of a tram getting to 100 kmh under its own power, anywhere in the world! The most I've seen is 80 kmh on the light rail / Metrolink in Manchester, England, and about 70 kmh in Hong Kong. Melbourne trams "bottom out" at 67 kmh in the case of a B2. (I'm not a driver but have had "behind the scenes" experiences on trams out of public service)
@@tobys_transport_videos legend has it that PCC 980 reached 110kmh on a test run.
@@cityjetproductions Legends... I'll ask around as I have close connections to tramway circles. I doubt this is true. 80 kmh maybe but 110? 🤔
I don't think a tram would ever hit 100km/h anywhere on the network. an E-Class could probably hit their top speed of 80km/h on the St Kilda light rail, but there aren't many other opportunities to hit the top speed
is the bycyle lane made redundant @1.04?
How do they get the new trams from Dandenong onto the network of tracks?
The E class were delivered in one piece. I was at Preston Workshops in the middle of the night back when E1 6001 was delivered.
@@soulsphere9242 AFAIK, yes. I only saw 6001 delivered. Unfortunately I wasn't thinking of videoing at the time, and can't post photos here. I suggest going to Facebook and joining the popular "Trams Downunder" group. I post occasionally under my real name as opposed to my channel name.
@@soulsphere9242 thanks to you both for answering that question so completely!
Why couldn't the power take up be converted from overhead cable to track based? More reliable.
yes more reliable but dangerous for the public
Its all well and good to have higher capacity trams, but does that mean we have to wait longer 'til one comes along?--Its good for peak hours, most certainly,but during the ebb hours?
I watched a video somewhere that had a tram with the wheels installed vertically within the flexible parts, which avoids having seats raised above the wheel wells. Why aren't we heading more towards designs like that?
Trams = 💓👍💓👍💓👍💓👍
Subscribed.
A and Z class are the last trams that look like actual trams. :(((
B2 I think is the best tram in Melbourne
Thanks for the info, just one thing they look like the dodgy new trains we have in Melbourne, can the please get the P.A's to work, and the doors to open too, would be great. Thanks.
3:30 the E class has 3 sections
Yep but that's based on the Flexity Swift, not the Flexity 2
@@philipmallis oh my bad, what are the differences?
@@Alexander_Dunn All good, they're part of the same overall group of designs from Bombardier (Flexity) with several sub-types that have developed over the years. Swift is a bit older and Flexity 2 has some features that the Swift does not. Overview here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Flexity and this is the official Flexity 2 brochure: lrt.daxack.ca/LRTvsHRT/TransitCity/FLEXITY2.pdf
I bet Route 67 get the cast offs, as usual, while the eastern suburb lines get the new ones.
All the Glen Huntly depot routes! Nothing newer than the B class.
@@Kevin-go2dw Give me a B2 anyday!!! 😍
The eastern suburbs got the crap while the west gets all the goodies because the west is a labor area................................
Why didnt they just build more E classes? Still good to see Victoria continuing to invest in Australian made, unlike my state of NSW.
Hi Rico, my understanding from the earlier information about the G-class was the need to introduce a medium-capacity vehicle to use on other routes. The G-class is also based on a newer model so has features that builds on the lessons learned from the E-class operations - in particular issues with energy use.
@@philipmallis Thank you for the detailed response
I'm subbed
3:46 From what website?
List from here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Flexity_2#Low-floor_versions
Do you know if some of these trams will be on the 64/67 routes?
Good question, not sure. They've said that they route allocations are still to be worked out. But given that the 64/67 operate Zs, I'd say there's a good chance of at least some of them being used along that corridor. The reorganisation of routes post-Metro Tunnel in 2025 may also have an impact on what happens.
Any updates on this mate?
Nothing that I'm aware of, the DTP information webpage still shows the first G-class trams should commence operation in 2025: dtp.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/next-generation-trams
why a 2 year gap between start of production and first tram in use, good heavens there not a destroyer.
Politics! There's a State Election in November!!!
I don't think route 72 got the memo about retiring the Z class
Philip, would you make a small alteration to your introduction, and list your "sources"? Predictive text can be a damn nuisance!
Hey there, sure always happy to make improvements! Could you clarify exactly what you mean? I've listed all of my sources in the video description
Tram's, in Perth we are a bit more advanced. We use teletransportation. : )
The front of the G class looks pretty ugly compared to the E class. I don't understand why they're making it look worse
Are they made in Melbourne?
Hi Kevin, DoT's website says that they will be manufactured in Victoria: transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/next-generation-trams
I'm not sure about the design ... the front looks too cylindrical?
I hope this means old no aircon one carrier tram will finally retire.
The new trams ride too poorly. The A and B class, feel like a comfy pillow.
JUST SAW METRO AN METRO HOBBIES
VAN MY FAVOURITE MODEL SHOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
Interesting direction Melbourne is taking things with deciding to make our trams progressively sillier looking...
Where's the smoking section?
Anywhere outside!
Where are the gunzels at
Anything to get rid of those shocker C and D classes.
Not for a while unfortunately, gotta wait till 2040
C2 aren't too bad. But there's only 5 of those! Whoever designed the D-class seating at each end of the tram, next to the big white plastic looking bench height walls, must've had really small feet. Even where there's a single seat only, can even put feet flat on floor (i'm only average foot size).
One advantage of the D-Class though - if really tired or had a big night, those bench like things are great for sleeping against &/or leaning against for support :P lol.
Would be probably be better to rip those 1 person only seats/sections out, which would allow more standing room & that's quite low on D's, also
if the worst you have to deal with are the C and D class, you're spoilt. Those are positively sci fi compared to the Z A and B classes
@@Clove_Parma you must not be thinking straight, the C and D's are not only rough and not designed for Melbourne's network, their seats are tiny and on the D's there are barely any seats at all! The Z A and B's were actually were designed and built for our network and ride well on our tracks, and their seats are well padded unlike their more modern European counterparts.
@@Clove_Parma The B2 class are a great tram, it's just that stupid bum seating they got a few years ago that ruins them. Z3 and A1/A2 are showing their limitations at 40 or more years old.
what a z1 and z2 look like ???
These trams need conductors and so do trains. Far too many instances of passengers being injured boarding or alighting both. Not to mention security. Remember in the 90s at night,. only the first train carriage was available of a three car train? Love your videos, such a niche market but very interesting.
Also to make all passengers pay for their trip.
Hopefully they are self draining so unlike other trams you won't be standing in what is probably just spilled drink but could also be piss. Hopefully they are long enough so any town a couple of kays outside the CBD still has enough room instead of trams already been full by St Kilda East so that you have to take a train or drive to work anyway.
Toronto bought a good number of streetcars from Bombardier. When they first came out, they were F@#%^& with defaults. Hence why skipping F Series.
I take the tram daily to get to work. Honestly, it's so expensive for public transportation, it makes no sense. It's actually cheaper to drive my car but because it was hit by a tram it's been stuck in a repair shop for 4 months.
Trams seem to win regardless
I'd do your calculations re cot of owning / running a car again. The hidden costs make car ownership / operation quite expensive. you notice this when you don't own a car!
Make sure you're accounting for service, replacement parts and, depreciation and insurance costs when accounting for expense! It may be cheaper on certain routes as long as you have free parking but it's a no brainer for anyone working in the CBD!
Try living in Brisbane as we have the most expensive PT fares in Australia. We get charged extra for travelling in peak hour and are probably the only state in Australia that does that.
@@brisbanepublictransportvlogs18 Victoria isn't cheap, but it's cost effective, in my view. We too have peak and off-peak fares on PTV services, as does Sydney on its trains, buses and ferries (Its trams are a joke!).
@@tobys_transport_videos When I lived in Bendigo and worked in Melbourne (before 2016) I know I had to pay peak hour fares.
Won't Mercedes-Benz object to using "E-Class" and "G-Class" as they are trademarked by Mercedes-Benz?
I don't think so. There are many things with -class around the world, including previous tram classes of Melbourne, that Mercedes-Benz and others are presumably fine with given that they haven't sued before.
I don't care about getting new trams Yarra Trams HAVE TO DEAL WITH People who leave their rubbish on the seats when they leave the vehical, People who vomit on the floor (had that done in frount of me a few times) stupid announcements are not welcomed, on just that the current voice (2/5/22) is REALLY annoying,and so is Don from the rolling stock P.O. YARRA TRAMS "GET SOME NEW SOFTWARE" BTW Why is there 2 "SMITH ST" on the 86 line?
entry via biometric chip scan
Thank god Gladys had nothing to do with these ones
Since she was the Premier of NSW, and we're talking about trams for Victoria, I don't see why you bring her name into the discussion!
Now I just wish they would relocate the overhead tram wires to within the tracks like what Sydney have done. Hate the look of the excessive wires everywhere.
It’s neatly done and importantly keeps large semis trailer’s off the inner city tram routes due to height clearance.
This will never happen!!!! Sydney's George St line was only done to appease the Greens It's not cost effective, and even the new G class trams will not be set up to be battery-electric. Overhead wires are a normal part of tramways all over the world. Furthermore, there was a massive hole in the ground at King and George Sts for many months while the equipment was built and installed. Can we afford Swanston St to be devoid of tram services while we do similar? I think not!
The wiring is unique.
All new teams lack seating space and aren’t as comfortable…
"New teams" of what??
Time to steal a tram and go on a joyride around the city then 😒
You need to build your own tram and do it the right way.
Wow. A new roadblock.
Exactly!
there would be tens of thousands more cars on the road if those trams weren't there and everybody had to drive, so you should be grateful that you're only being slightly delayed rather than being stuck in endless gridlock
wrong of you to assume I'm a regular watcher. this is the 1st one I've seen so don't make comments on whether I'm subscribed. rude to make presumptions like that.
is it just me that dislikes the looks?
Is that from China? Congrats to vic fo selling out .
As Philip pointed out, the new trams are being built at Dandenong, Victoria, not China. Home made!
I still choose to believe my "F class tram" April Fools joke was the reason they went straight to G class. (For anybody who didn't see it I made a fake press release of a 5 segment E class that I called "F class")
Did good until you started winjing
You just need to get rid of the French one's now.
Why does "one's" have an apostrophe?
If you mean the C2 class "Bumblebees" that are captive to Route 96, it won't happen! The government gave in a few years ago and finally bought them after many years of just paying the lease fee, even after the lease expired. It became more expensive to send them back to France (Mulhouse) than to keep them here.
I HATE fucking trams. I have lived in Melbourne for 20 years, and I can't believe that people here still don't understand the difference between trams and buses. Buses pull over to stop. Trams stop in the middle of the road and block all traffic. Not to mention special traffic light sequences. They seriously interfere with traffic flow in Melbourne, not just private cars but all commercial vehicles.
New tram tracks in USA are by the side of the road at footpath edge and don't interfere with cars.
@@herbnalis3723 Sounds good!
Your 100% right. How can trams be environmentally friendly when they cause car traffic to stop & accelerate over & over again. This increases fuel use by ten times what is needed to cover the same distance without disruption. Trams should accelerate slowly & be held to 40 kmh speed limit to let car traffic pass, reduce congestion & reduce pollution from car exhaust. New trams that are bigger & faster wear out tram tracks quicker as well. All road users should be taken into account.
@@herbnalis3723 Think about how many more cars would be on the road if there were not trams, that's why they are extremely helpful in many ways
Ngl im a little confused why it will take them 3 years to get these trams built.
We need more smaller trams with more tram drivers. E class is so big that when it brakes down nothing can move it except another E class, this means no movement on the line for 1hr. People at the rear of E class can't get off when tram is full because of no rear door & driver unaware due to length of tram. Bigger trams need bigger tram stops which we don't have. These large trams are not suitable for maximum capacity use and have to many cost cutting features like lack of buttons to exit and now no opening windows on G class. Should be renamed C class for cost cutting & clearly not disability friendly. Everyone stands in disable section.
We don't need small trams, and we don't need opening windows! We need fast loading/unloading trams with air con systems that can cool/heat a tram quickly! The D2 class seemed to be pretty good with 200 passengers aboard, and the E class also do alright. The B2 class air con has issues as people open the windows, and the air conditioning can't cope!! I've been on a D2 in Elizabeth St a few months ago with no air-con, and it was dreadful!
Fresh air beats no A/C in summer. One 19 route tram had A/C on only half the tram for 3 years every summer and Yarra Trams would not fix it. Privatization at fault. Need government hot line to report issues.
Smaller trams would only be able to hold wheelchairs.
Oh my gosh though but how ugly is it?
Yikes
It’s a dud
There's no such word as ' newest '.
I think there is actually :)
@@adamwinch2959 no, it's a made up word from America.
@@robertnicholson1409 I agree, but its used so commonly its become part of most/many peoples vocabulary which is how words become words basically. For example simples, transgender or copypasta
@@adamwinch2959 ok it depends on context. If I was applying for a job I wouldn't use it or some serious situation but casually no problem.
I just have 1 question.
Why does it take so long to build these things? Enough with the mock ups. Just build them as fast as possible. We need 500 new trams not a pathetic 100. Also we need new trains too. They are being delivered way too slowly for my liking. We need them ASAP.
From what I know about rolling stock design (which admittedly isn't very much), there is a lot to put into the project. Every tram network is different in terms of infrastructure type/condition, gauge, operating environment, climate, and many other things. Buying vehicles 'off the shelf' typically doesn't work very well. The C1-class tram was an attempt to do this, and it's pretty generally acknowledged now that the old process was a bad idea. Other trams that are designed for local environments - including the older Comeng-manufactured trams or even before that - tend to perform better, last longer and be better for passengers.
@@philipmallis I totally agree with you. However I just wish they would build 100s of new trams & trains. Not just small orders here or there. Have a program where we are building 20 or so trains & trams each year for the next 10-15 years.
The D1 & D2 trams are nearly 20 years old now. Surely we need to plan for their replacement now & have orders in the pipeline.
Trams are so small in Melbourne for a big city. 3 carriages? Mental. In Geneva is 4 minimum with so many on each track. Melbourne needs to hurry up
I swear I remember replying to this ages ago but my comment doesn't show up, anyway the G-Class trams will be able to be extended to 5 carriages, possibly even to 7, which would make them even higher-capacity than the E-Class trams, but it really depends on how busy the line they're rostered to is. it's also possible that the order will be increased from 100 to 260, which would either allow the retirement of the B-Class trams (unfortunate because they're very good and reliable trams despite them being old and high-floor) or much higher frequencies as there'd be more trams available, but not both