@@tangogrrl Yes. I was the one whose neck was broken. I had decided long before taking this trip that it would be a one-time thing, and what happened only reinforced that decision. Luckily, I'm on the road to a full recovery.
@@scottkaufman8537 I'm so glad to hear you are on the road to a full recovery. This was a completely avoidable accident, the fact that others chasing the storm managed to keep safe I think is a testament to that.
@@scottkaufman8537 I'm so sorry to hear it! It sounds like you had the worst injury. Did you know at the time what was happening, or was it too fast? Very happy to hear you're making a full recovery! What a terrifying experience.
Yet another video that perfectly displays why Skip is unquestionably one of the best chasers and educators we’ve got today. Thank you for making this video, Skip. I loved the way you laid out all of the factors and circumstances that led to what happened-so comprehensive and objective. I also appreciated that you didn’t waste time chastising or vilifying them for what happened; rather, you focused on helping others avoid similar mistakes. I was also very impressed by how much data and video you compiled, and how well you presented it all. Incredibly educational and engaging. You are my favorite chaser and I always appreciate the work you do. You make chasers look good!! Thank you!
Oh well hell, all we get here in Ohio are those frontal thingies nobody understands. Although we had some no-kidding convective weather this year. I saw a baby cell north of Columbus. It had a rear core, some frontal core rain and a wall cloud. But it wasn't big enough to do anything. It was cute. But it was genuinely convective.
Very professional, no speculation about SLT's decision making or management, just analysis of the on-site decisions and how to manage your situation awareness. As always, thorough and concise.
Fantastic video Skip. I was on that tour and fortunately for me, the van I was in only got a good battering and not rolled. The way the tour group operate is in military convoy. Van 1 first with the leader, then 2, 3 and 4. This appeared quite rigid, but on this occasion, when we turned around and headed south, the vans left in reverse order. Maybe the drivers 'felt' something was not quite right. Vans 3 and 4 managed to escape whereas vans 1 and 2 were not so lucky. Feel so sorry for everyone effected, Scott especially. Lucky for him he is a strong guy. When I arrived home and explained all this to my family and friends, they said surely the tour company was totally negligent. I agreed, but had signed the wavers as described in another post. I was aware of the risks with storm chasing, but never expected to be caught up in one, especially as I chose a highly regarded organisation to guide me safely. Was not aware of their previous close call or may have chose another one instead. Having read some facebook posts about this company, it appears they have a large following who think the sun shines out of their (you know where). Even after this incident, they could do no wrong! Being English, I struggle to understand this, but maybe that's just me. On a positive note, i've made friends on the trip who I would never have met any other way. On a side issue, I will be back next year, but with a different company. Stay safe folks.
Thank you for the comments and insight. It means a lot coming from someone on the tour. I've had several people message me relating other stories of close calls they had on SLT tours in past years. I had no idea some tours were chasing in such an aggressive manner until I started working on this project. I had even recommended SLT to people many times in the past (you could probably dig up some of those comments on this channel), not based on any personal experience, but on their reputation and long standing history. Their motives for the maneuvers they took on that fateful day of your tour, and whatever consequences that follow are outside the scope of this presentation. I just want to help other chasers and spotters not make the same mistake. There is a dangerously widespread and prevalent pattern of behavior among chasers to race south across the path of the tornado or bear's cage. However, if you suspect there was something like negligence going on here, you should seek some legal advice as I've heard waivers do not stand up in such cases. It would suck if people are being left as victims or stuck with a huge financial burden over this.
@@skiptalbot Appreciate all you say Skip. What's the phrase in that film: 'The days of sniffing the dirt are over'. Lets hope not! Going forward, lets hope professionals in the storm chasing industry can harness technology as well as their experience in the field as you so brilliantly described.
@a300dave do you have a copy of the waiver you signed? I’m just wondering if there is any room for legal action. I think it can be proven that SLT took a risky, unnecessary action. Reputable chasers know better than to do what they did. It demonstrates that they either A. Don’t know what they are doing or B. Don’t care what they are doing. Unless there is some type of verbiage in that waiver that says the tour operator may make maneuvers that are not recognized as safe by the chasing community and you are aware that they will do so, I would say there is wiggle room there and you should sue the hell out of them.
@@beatlemyn thing is there is no "Law" or regulation when it comes to that sort of thing and they likely could say that the customers Signed the waiver stating that its possible that you may get injured or killed if you go on this trip and thus they are no longer legally held responsible for injuries (or worse blame the drivers and get them fined and fired) what I'm saying is unless there is specifically a set of laws regarding safe tornado chasing covering the entirety of tornado alley SLT can likely say that they did all that they were "Legally required" to do and get off scot free
I’m not a storm chaser... definitely not a meteorologist... In fact, I don’t even live in tornado alley, but I find these videos absolutely fascinating!
31:15 Another point to this, of not relying too heavily on radar scans, but learning to identify storm structure for situational awareness is that I've seen a number of chasers recently say that they lost cell service/signal in rural areas resulting in close calls with storms because their radar scans were outdated. If the only tool you use to position yourself is radar, you're severely limiting yourself.
Skip, I wanted to take the time to say how well thought out and professionally presented your videos are. It’s clear that you have an analytical mind that can bring in multiple details together with ease, and layer them in a way that the common viewer can understand. I appreciate the video and thank you!
It seems like SLT got suckered into believing the indicated “rotation” to the north was the danger area, hence they left to the south...apparently unaware of the smaller rotation couplet that actually was the ongoing tornado. This is further confirmed by an early SLT statement that they were “hit by a satellite”. Excellent overview and detailed explanation, Skip.
So was the tornado that hit SLT the ongoing tornado or a satellite? I find the SLT statement to be a contradiction of facts as at the time of impact, the northern 'rotation' had yet to spawn the EF4. How could the southern tornado be a satellite of a tornado that didn't exist (yet)?
"I find the SLT statement to be a contradiction of facts..." That is the reason for this presentation. SLT staff and some of their supporters are not being entirely truthful about what happened. Is it to cover their own asses or simply because they don't know any better? I'll let you guess which. But some of these people are highly influential leaders in the chaser community. Others look up to them and follow their lead. By misidentifying parts of the storm, and not being straightforward about what happened and the outcome, SLT staff are undermining decades of hard earned knowledge on storm structure and best safety practices for chasing. I'm terrified that new and aspiring chasers are going suck up the misinformation they're spreading and become victims by falling into the same easily preventable mistakes SLT made. SLT was not hit by a satellite. It was the main tornado of a very large, long-lived mesocyclone. The tornado that hit them was long-track, significant, had been in progress for miles and minutes before it hit them, and was pendent to the parent mesocyclone, tracking right along in a nearly straight line with the track of the parent mesocyclone. That they couldn't see it until it impacted them should not be an excuse. The storm was warned for tornadoes, displayed obvious structure suggesting where a tornado might be, and the tornado was located in a characteristically typical part of the storm.
@@Jimbo700 ongoing tornado. NWS reports indicate the tornado that hit SLT formed in Osage County SE of Overbrook about 10 minutes before they drove into it. The notion that they were struck by a satellite is horseshit.
@@skiptalbot Thank you for your detailed analysis. As an "armchair" observer it seems that they should have clearly known the danger but took unnecessary risks that put them in harms way. If someone like Tim Samaras could miscalculate and lose their life, then taking vanloads of "tourists" into harms way should have consequences!
@@skiptalbot ive always think that admitting a mistake is better and causing less damage then covering your ass. those who know will no longer beleve you and those who dont will one day find out.
@@RepentfollowJesus Pretty sure, they do. However, storm chasing tours like the SLT should be careful and not reckless. They should care about the tourists because a spectacular experience can turn into a traumatic or a deadly one. Tourists may not have seen a tornado before; therefore, nervous. Sure it may guarantee that the storm chasers aren't accountable if tourists signed the contract, but they should be aware of tourists are present, give them tips, and show how a storm chaser can also help survivors. They should not put them in too much danger. Moreover, SLT tour guide, Rodgers, seems a bit reckless to me from another tour in Storm Stories: Tornado Six Pack. He drives dangerously close to the tornado while trying to get ahead of it. He also tried to escape the second one by driving forward and unsure if the road ends. Based upon the video, he didn't seem to check on the family whose house had been hit. With the mind of the tourists, he could have just stayed behind the tornado and not get ahead of it in case it changes directions. The second one, he should've turned back around to the road he was familiar with. A heavy-close up of the tornado is not worth risking anyone's lives. Contracts or not, if a storm chaser has a record of tourists having traumatic experiences, injuries, deaths, despite not being held responsible, it does raise suspicion. Edit: Some spelling errors.
@@RepentfollowJesus sorry, just now seeing this. Signing a waiver doesn’t guarantee you will not have any rights in situations like this. Wanton disregard will nullify a waiver almost every time. A contract such as these a lot of time aren’t worth the ink used to sign them.
The section about convergence vs. rotation and drawing a line to the radar site is brilliant. I remember reading about this, the tour believed they were hit by a satellite tornado 2 miles SW of the 'parent rotation' -the large red/green blob of converging winds Skip points out.
Just watched another video about this and someone claiming to be a driver from this SLT group was in the comments saying exactly that - unfortunately downplaying their responsibility seems to be the priority over learning from their mistakes.
That was quite a presentation, Mr. Talbot. As a scientist myself, I can appreciate your comprehensive and detailed presentation. Your objective and detached analysis of the accident based on those facts is impressive.
Spectacular analysis as always. Extremely professional and objective, as well as informative. I base my chase style around your safety tips and it hasn't led me astray yet. Folks need to see this, along with your other similar videos, and take the lessons to heart. Otherwise, as you said in the video, future injuries and fatalities are inevitable.
Great analysis, Skip. Some serious truth in the bit about all of us essentially being amateurs in these storms - no one is going to be perfect, no matter their experience, education or skill...that's been a painfully learned lesson throughout the last decade. It's more counterproductive to blame nature & ignore our own faults & errors. The ability to learn from mistakes is an undervalued skill.
from a legal standpoint one would think core punching, hook slicing, or being within 3 miles of any circulation would be a massive insurance liability for the tour groups. I know they want to see a tornado, but like with El Reno, just assume the whole spinning rain curtain is the tornado and be thankful you can see it. if there would have been a loss of life, the liability of the tour would have been such that they should just give the families a blank check and shut down. heck one could make a case that the drivers/guides were being criminally negligent. I just don't understand it even for a solo team going into the bear's cage much less a caravan of tourists.
Not really. They sign liability waivers. There would be no law suit because the families wouldn't have a leg to stand on. You can't claim negligence when people KNOW that there is the possibility of a tornado and they are volunteering to get closer to it. The only issue that could happen would be if the tour deliberately drove into the tornado in a reckless fashion, rather than just trying to stay within a viewable distance. That would be extremely difficult to prove since tornado's can take an unpredictable path. Very doubtful a lawyer would take on the case on the sole basis of someone being injured during a storm chasing tour. Their odds of winning the case aren't that high and even if they did win the case, the settlement would likely be small. I don't think these tour operators are trying to get that close to a tornado. After all those vehicles are their business and they don't want to destroy them or injure themselves.
@@mikel9567 Liability waivers can & are defeated in court every single day of the wk, including from this incident. There were MULTIPLE lawsuits & they all settled out of court, w/confidentiality agreements. Legally, there are more reasons than I can count that nullify these waivers. A good attorney can almost always beat them. Like it or not, that’s the system. And why the tour company carried massive insurance.
@@maryb6672 How do you know that there were "MULTIPLE lawsuits & they all settled out of court, w/confidentiality agreements"? You're correct about waivers. Despite the waiver, Silver Lining Tours still owed a duty of care to its tour guests, and while the waiver might protect SLT against claims of simple negligence involving the inherent risks of storm chasing, it probably wouldn't protect them from conduct that was grossly negligent or reckless.
Last time skip did one of these type of video if I’m not mistaken was on the El Reno Tornado couple years back. I came across this video in see that 1hr clip I was like “uh oh this had to be one of those rare tornadoes like the el Reno one..... click” lol. Great video
LadyAnder maybe some think it’s a little too soon to be discussing this event but it’s a discussion that needs to be had sooner rather than later, wouldn’t want a repeat of this mishap next tornado season
SLT doesn't want this incident discussed or to receive any criticism for their choices. There are a couple of videos about this where some folks in the comments that are defending SLT attack the people making the videos. I'm guessing that also includes downvoting them. The funny thing is, anyone who's ever watched one of Skip's videos knows they aren't made to criticize and chastise decisions made by storm chasers, rather they are made to analyze and learn from these incidents, in order to help chasers and spotters operate more safely in the future.
Wow! I appreciate your professional courtesy throughout this presentation. You could have easily (and understandably) been tempted to accuse, but didn't. Well done. I have always learned so much from your presentations.
Wild to think that the night before this happened I had played some cells near where I live, then called it off when it got dark. But the general paths of the storms made for bad chasing. Plus with the lighting conditions, it was also incredibly dangerous. To say the least, I only saw one tornado the night before, but that was more than enough since it crossed in front of me as I called it quits and was heading east. Consequently, I also avoided getting seriously injured as the storms I abandoned rolled into Dayton. Events such as the 28th (This video) and the events the night before (My chase) emphasize and reinforce the points you made in your Now Legendary El-Reno tornado analysis and this video serves as a warning to chasers to be careful and always maintain situational awareness.
As a Kansas resident, I really appreciate all the effort and analysis put into this video. It will help me make informed identification and decision making when the next storm comes!
Fantastic presentation! Especially when showing the scale radar comparisons, and simulated rain wrapped images from the field. Where you toggled the actual view to a simulated rain wrap. That was the moment it all clicked for me. Your explanation and visual illustration of the patterns to look for became incredibly clear from then forward. To where I could easily pick them out before you drew them. Thank you for putting this together!
For a experienced storm chaser to be in the situation they were in at Joplin on rangeline is frankly embarrassing. I moved into Joplin a few years after and am very familiar with the area now. The storm path. The timing and the radar scans. For them to be driving on rangeline in the path of it is just unbelievable.
First let me state that I'm not a fan of SLT or the whole concept of tourist storm chasing...but it's their privilege...but SLT can be "forgiven" for Joplin....that blew up so quickly that it almost caught most chasers flat-footed...they made good decisions at El Reno....but here....failed one of Skip's main rules....they lost situational awareness and made a bad decision worse....//
Once panic sets in, decision making becomes non existent. HP storms are not very well understood at all, if we're honest, and are therefore particularly dangerous to chase.
@@questionitall3053 how are they not very well understood? HP in meteorological terms means High Precipitation meaning a LOT of rain and possibly large hail right?
A year later, but wow, I love this analysis! Thank you so much for doing these kinds of videos. It makes all of us safer, especially if we want to become chasers ourselves.
Another outstanding video! Very well done, clearly explained, and highly informative and educational. As a regular chase tour patron, I thank you for your tireless efforts to help make all us amateurs better at what we love to do.
As a Lawrence resident whose mother is the Topeka National Weather Service Meteorologist In Charge and was scared absolutely sh**less when this storm hit, I greatly appreciate this video.
Just passed storm spotting training a few days ago, this helped a lot after passing with additional information, amazing tips and safety measures I'll be using if and when storm spotting. Can't thank you enough!
Time the **_hell_** out . . . The van at 15:09 _DIDN'T HAVE ITS LIGHTS ON!?!?_ That, and a blacked out hood made the thing hard enough to see on video, let alone actually being there. They ought to be damn thankful that Jeep's driver saw them and didn't pull into the road.
Driving in those conditions with the lights off is a sure sign of reckless driving. It was only a matter of time before the wrecks happened to them with that attitude. I hope they change, or else some unsuspecting passenger that doesn't watch this video will be killed on a future chase.
This is why I have an issue with "sightseeing tours"! It is one thing to have people like Skip who are working for scientific or informative reasons, vs people who are just thrillseekers. These storms are impacting the lives of people who live there. Every farmstead, acreage, etc represents their homes & livelyhoods, unnecessary vehicles in these areas creates congestion and risk for those who may be trying to escape or seeking shelter!
@@timnewman1172 not exactly true. I'm from Europe and my ultimate dream holiday is storm chasing. Not for the thrill. But the science behind it and to understand more about this kind of storm's. Over here in Europe woe don't have the network of radars like they do in the US. I've encountered some little mesocyclones and one big one (drove without knowing in the rfd of it) luckily it didn'tgive a tornado. Sow how on earth can i come storm chasing without knowing someone who's storm chasing?
@@frederikjacob1985 study up on it using videos like these and drive yourself, staying a very safe distance away from the track of the storm. You don't need to know anyone into storm chasing to get into yourself. Like Skip says it isnt regulated and every chaser is an amateurs and even those with Meteorology degrees don't inherently know how to chase storms. Study up, learn it yourself from chasers like Skip, and go out on your own. Thats how I got into storm chasing. I quit a few years after the Hackleburg, AL EF5 which I experienced first hand as that was my home. The sounds and noises of that monster going directly over me left me with some mental scars that cause anxiety attacks which is what led me to stop chasing.
Phenomenal analysis. Much of it over my head. I hear these terms all the time but have never seen such a thorough and comprehensive explanation. I certainly will be watching this again. Thanks Skip!
This is just enormously helpful, Skip. The info is clear, succinct, accurate, and fascinating to boot. I honestly think you've saved lives with this. Next time you take another deep dive into the particulars of these storms and situations, count me in! Best of luck to you. -seth
Good stuff Skip. I notice your tone is a bit more adamant these days - and rightly so. First responders have more important things to do than deal with chasers who, as you rightfully say, should know better. I do think this is a valuable refresh of the "El Reno Course" as it provides additional scenarios that are a little harder to read. Thought - your crossing guards analogy is very apt. Maybe we should call the bear's cage just that - the crossing guard. Keep up the good work my friend. You are saving lives.
Thanks Skip for another great in-depth review of a tornado-chaser impact event. Sometimes the "pros" get it wrong and you breakdown the facts extremely well.
Densely and concisely informative, clear and entertaining, brilliantly illustrated, very logical, creative, and charitable analysis. You should get an award or a PhD for this.
Bowdle ,SD resident here. Just want to thank you for videos like this. They help me out big time on being able to identify when I should be ready, and when I need to get out. I would chase regardless if these videos exsisted or not , but they allow me to chase in a safer manner than I would if they didn't exsist.
Really educational, Skip, thank you! I've been away from the midwest for years, but continue to build my knowledge to chase again one day when the opportunity presents itself. Your "storm anatomy" video solidified early on that while radar is helpful, the golden rule of chasing is "know (what you're looking at) or go!". It's kept me safe all this time!
Thank you Skip for another very informative look into Storm Chasing. Also proving that this is a dangerous hobby and anyone chasing needs to be prepared for changing conditions and have the proper knowledge and equipment when chasing.
Well done Skip. The topic of trial and error and learning from each other’s mistakes is spot on. I always learn something new or have a better handle on something from these videos. It’s humbling in a good way.
Skip Talbot's knowledge, experience and analysis of tornado/storm chasing are, along with the Legendary Pecos Hank, the very best I've seen on You Tube !!!
I now looked at a few more videos of tornadoes, and your explanation is spot on. I it helps recognize where the danger is quite well, even for someone who doesn't even live in the USA.
Man I love these videos - a lot to learn :) Also from the 25:35 - it (kinda) seems to me like they thought something bigger/more dangerous was waiting for them ahead or could happen soon enough if they continued (which turned out to be that EF4 a few minutes later a bit to the east) so that's why they turned around. EDIT: yep, 4 minutes later there is an answer :D
Not a storm chaser and I do not live in area prone to any real tornados but I very much enjoy these videos for some reason. Incredibly well done and as good as content on YT gets. Thanks, skip!
50mins "I'm going to tell you why this maneuver is not only dangers, but wrong! 50mins+ "I'm going to do this maneuver myself and tell you wtf I was wrong omg" Brilliant video. Extremely informative and smart.
Another very informative video Skip! I'm glad I decided not to chase this day. I've been chasing for around 5 years and chased on May 27th 2019 south of Kansas City. The flooding was so bad I decided to drive out to Illinois and wait for the next severe weather event to present itself. Chasers need to be aware of all hazards they may be encountering before deciding to take on a chase. Like you say there will always be another storm.
Thank you Skip for this very comprehensive and detailed analysis of supercells, interpretation of radar images, and how to chase safe. It would be a nice test: if you go chasing with tour operators, or friends with unknown risk behaviour, show them some pictures and ask them how they would decide.
Something I think about a lot since the Lone Star incident is a close call with an F3 tornado SLT had back in 2002 in South Dakota. Different situations in that a) the tornado was visible, and b) they were heading east and were initially behind the tornado. When the decision to get further east to try and get in front of it, the tornado made a SE swoop and they inadvertently ended up driving in the new path, missing it by only a few hundred yards. The only reason why I think about it was because in the video from that day, even though initially the tornado was moving due east initially, it still seemed precariously close to the road to attempt to even get close to it.
In this presentation, Skip Talbot is classic Bill Paxton’s character and the SLT chase leader being Cary Elwes’ character. All from the luxury of hindsight. Impressive presentation that will improve chase safety in the future.
June Han it’s funny because i have a lot of respect for Roger Hill as a chaser. He’s probably one of the most experienced and smart chasers alive today. I just feel like the urge to get a close up tornado view for his well paying customers overtook him on this day, and safety took a backseat to this urge which is where he screwed up. He led his team and his customers into a very dangerous situation that could have been much worse. I don’t consider him a bad guy that doesn’t know what he’s doing, quite the opposite actually, i just feel like he made a critical mistake in judgement like we humans are all capable of making sometimes.
GREAT JOB as always! I wasn’t going to mention Joplin until I saw those indignant quotes at the end. That means they didn’t learn anything from it. A couple of minutes later, Skip covered it. Wonder what happened in El Reno?
I live in Gardner and seeing all of these places I have been to is surreal. My Uncle was chasing the tornado in his old jeep. His jeep broke down and the tornado changed directions and he luckily got it started and was able to get out of there. I was in Branson at the time and wasnt there to be doing tornado stuff.
I live in Gardner now, but I was living in Bonner Springs when that one went through Linwood, I thought for sure it was going to hit Bonner too, we lived about 8 miles from where it hit. I didn't see it, but you could hear the rumbling of it, my son thought it was thunder, but my father in-law said that was the tornado.
Me too! I headed out when it was tornado warned, with a set limit to remain on 56 and (tentatively) no further west than 59. I stopped in Baldwin for a radar check to see the storm's progression, and was fully prepared to turn my butt back around if necessary. The video starting at 1:11:51 is what I saw from my vantage point at 56 & 59 hwy when it was slightly more east of that location. If I didn't know beforehand what was going on, I would have mistaken it for a rain shaft.
Another excellent presentation and analysis of events. Thank you sharing this report. and the different parts of the tornado, like the bear cage, notch and in flow. Also, the thick rain cloud/wrap that can block a tornado's view. Again thank you for the video.
Thanks Skip! Excellent analysis! I think there were just WAY too many signs here for SLT. I suspect they simply became “human” and really wanted to deliver on what otherwise might have been a day without a visible tornado. When you bring others that aren’t as aware of what is going on, you MUST stay logical, even if it means your tour sees nothing but some rain. The video in the van, there were looking at reflectivity on the radar, they really should have had velocity, at least on 1/2 the screen. ESPECIALLY that close. That said, it’s easy to play armchair quarterback after the fact. But even before the detailed analysis, I was looking at trek track and saying to myself “WTF are they doing!?!?” This video will do more to educate than 50 storm chaser videos screaming at a tornado they saw. 👍🏻
Did these people learn _nothing_ from El Reno? 3 highly-experienced storm chasers lost their lives because they were caught in something that was erratic and heavily rain-wrapped. Hell, a tourist group was nearly impacted by that one as well.
I didn’t realize you had this video. The EF4 here hit my cousin in Linwood. The damage to their property was crazy. We were still logging the downed trees during covid. I was hit by a tornado in a similar van (family car driven by my dad) and I was assigned by my dad the job to watch for the storm. My oldest brother was the navigator, with a GPS and an atlas of maps. His job was to find alternate routes at every intersection. Dad drove as the only adult. My sister prayed. Another brother sang every verse of “I will survive” for motivation and my other siblings alternated between screaming and stoic silence. I did my best. Successfully navigated us away from one EF1 before that. But this storm came up on us faster than the rest of the line when we needed gas. We had nothing, and we probably had about 40-60 seconds before it hit us, where heavy rain hit then dead silence and we talked about how we didn’t like what was ahead of us or what was behind either. My dad, with nowhere to go, slowed our van to a crawl. We were all on vacation visiting my grandparents, unfamiliar with the area, and had 0 chasing experience. I had some basic understanding or tornado dynamics from RUclips and that was it. That decision my dad made was excellent because a little dust devil sized thing appeared in front of us. Another showed up to the left. And then there were a bunch, like a forest of them. I wrote down as much as I could remember in my diary afterwards and between me and my oldest brother and dad we counted 6 over the course of what followed. The one in front sub vortex flipped a F-150 onto its side in front of us, suddenly the Prius off to our right disappeared into the right ditch, in a cloud of dust, and the tiny thing spun out a sedan and either a midsized SUV or a normal van (it was the car furthest from us and hardest to see) on the left and we kept going right after that. We went slow and hoped they didn’t get us. Then pouring rain with a bit of hail and it was over. I am still not sure if we were in the central tornado or just the bear’s cage of that storm. Scary. We drove as fast as possible away from that storm. We all thought that our car was going to be flipped and I remember my dad yelling that everyone better have seatbelts on and to hold on tight. I had a backpack and a blanket over one of my younger sisters and another sibling had the same on our littler brother. We’ve been talking about it lately since we are now all adults and how it shows we all have similar terrible gallows humour when things are going south. (Ironic because we were actually hoping to get out of that storm’s way fast enough by going south). This video and the one with Tanner and Chris really remind me of that day. When I chased I never chased close to storms that reminded me of that storm. I really think the fractal pattern in the meso, tornado cyclone and tornado itself give you an idea of the way the sub vortices will move and I don’t want to be near any as close again. I am more focused on trying to get the shot that shows the whole fractal movement when I have chased, because it’s a shot further away from the rotation of the tornado itself and that is the pattern that interests me anyway.
I couldn't believe that chasing tour got into an accident like they did, like you said they are extremely experienced. But I guess anytime you're messing with severe weather, especially with how the storms have changed over the years it seems, an excess amount of prudence need to be added to everyone including the General Public. You do a phenomenal job with these videos! And you do it with a MASSIVE amount of tact, proper research, respect! Happy chasing to everyone! I'm rewatching this video againHappy chasing to everyone! I'm just re-watching these videos you've made, because they're definitely made to be watched more than once!! :-)
59:10 Crazy thing about this is that even though the central multivortex of the El Reno could have been 2 miles away… he would have still been half a mile inside the tornado force wind zone…
I chased this storm coming north from Kansas city into Lawrence, and I got there just as it was passing the 59; from my perspective it was a rain wrapped mess.
Good video, very well done & some good info in general. Really paints a picture as to what may have happened that day. Also finally gives me a good visual for why 'just go south' can be so dangerous.(though I'm assuming 'go south' is fairly safe *if* you don't get so close ... and if I do eventually get the chance to go chasing, I plan on staying a good safe distance away)
I had watched the Joplin video many times before watching this and never realized the mistakes and risk that those teams exercised. All of those people are extremely lucky to be alive, and were only spared as a result of the tornados slow churn across the southern portion of the city.
This video is incredibly well done! As someone who is a complete novice when it comes to understanding storm structure I feel like I've gained a lot of understanding of why this situation was so dangerous. Your visuals were extremely helpful. I don't want to speculate too much on why SLT made the decisions they did, just as you refrained from doing so. However, with core-punching being so dangerous, it's baffling to me that someone would make the decision to core-punch or try to outrun the core when the lives and safety of customers depend on their expertise and good judgement.
I think Skip has been remarkably generous to SLT in this review, and the truth is far more worrying. This tour operator nearly got people killed because they were reckless and criminally negligent. They *should* have known where the predicted track of the forecasters' tornado was and avoided crossing it. They definitely shouldn't have then crossed it *again*, doubling back on themselves having only just successfully scraped ahead of the bear's cage. They absolutely should have, with their decades of experience, been able to recognise the bear's cage region of a storm and avoided it, even if their radar data was possibly indicating something else. I am not a lawyer, but if I was and I was representing the inevitable class action suit from SLT's tour group, I think I might consider calling Skip Talbot as an expert witness to testify to this negligence as an experienced chaser who was able to recognise these dangers. I know the tour group would have signed indemnity waivers as storm chasing is inherently dangerous, however those can't cover situations like this where criminal negligence is likely to have occurred. I certainly wouldn't want to go on an SLT tour if nothing else! Their lack of care for those on their tours is just appalling, and is even worse considering their response after this incident.
So I agree with most of what you say here. However, I should point out that the the aim of the video was to assist spotters and chasers going forward, not rake SLT over the coals for their mistakes, even if they did demonstrate negligence. I don't see any good that would come from that. That's for the courts if it comes to it. So it's not like I'm intentionally going easy on SLT here. Instead we need good, objective sources of information from outside sources that can benefit everyone. Much of this video was dedicated to correcting misinformation disseminated by SLT staff (and other chasers) after the event occurred. There should be ample warning here to spotters and chasers about the dangers involved, not only with these maneuvers, but about chasing with others in general. Commercial tour or not, when you take a trip with a chaser, you're trusting your life to somebody who is not professionally trained or certified in any real capacity. I'd hope everyone signing up for a tour or trip realizes that.
@@skiptalbot very admirable, and I totally agree that the focus should be on learning from these mistakes. SLT have stated that they believe they were hit by a satellite tornado from a circulation to the North East of them, which you've pretty conclusively proved wasn't the case with an excellent analysis of that day's events and the information they would have had at that time. I just hope that SLT and the like will actually heed this and improve their own practices, even if they won't acknowledge their mistakes publicly. Nicely done on the knowledge drop, dude. Always a pleasure seeing your work!
30:45 in other words: The convergence signature is the region where the cold rear flank downdraft air causes the inflow to separate from the ground and overcome the CIN, the updraft close to the ground strengthens explosively and the air is sucked into the meso cyclone. The horizontal vorticity of the inflow, caused by the forward flanking line, is tilted upwards and is stretched at the same time by the updraft which causes the spin up of the next tornado. That would be consistent with the simulation of Leigh Orf and from what I understand from his presentations. This is really interesting and the first time I'm seeing someone mentioning the convergence lines that move towards the mesocyclone, merge with it and evidently cause a tornado. Raises the questions: How many of the big tornados show such a pattern and can we uses that to predict tornados 10 or 15minutes before they go ground up ("touch down")?
I chased with another tour group last year. We poked fun at SLT a lot during the tour. I love chasing but I would definitely not go with them. It seems like Roger knows what he's doing isn't safe, but the urge to get extremely close overtakes him and he ends up taking massive risks
Even the late, great Tim Samaris, who was noted for his safety, could not read one of these monster HP storms. We don't really know anything about them.
Goodness, Skip, I sure hope you didn't get harassed from SLT on this. :( Thank you for releasing this video. Very informative! My husband and one of my sons have always talked about going chasing. This is something they should watch as ongoing prep.
I just stumbled onto this. Outstanding vid, Skip. Early on when you were discussing high precip storms, I immediately flashed back to your el reno vids. I'm guessing you're not a big fan of Timmer and some of the other ultra aggressive chasers.
Very Professional, very informative, I love your videos. I learn more in your videos than I have in numerous spotter courses. Thank you. Great video, keep them coming!
Jeez! These folks never knew what hit them. 😿 Personally, I think the biggest misconception that beginners have, is that every tornado has a textbook funnel structure, is visible from 20 miles away, and stretches up thousands of feet into nice clear air with cloud bases 8,000 ft. AGL. And that all you have to do is cast your index finger to the windshield, and declare, “There it is!” Maybe in Eastern Colorado with low surface humidities... but even then, such simplicity can NEVER be assumed. Like you said Skip, from the looks of things, these guys probably thought they were just leisurely cruising through garden variety heavy rain & low visibility. The fact that the difference is so indiscernible to some, is the scariest thing of all! I would probably be one of those people who don’t know any better, so that is why I “stay my ass” in California- where the sun just shines, and it’s hot & dry in the spring & summer.
I don't know what with those thumb down. I travel around America to see all beautiful places and people. I was in the middle of a giant cloud and things start spinning around like crazy. Driving alone not knowing how to prepare myself. By watching this video give me better idea how to plan ahead and more aware of my surroundings. I want to Thank You for taking your time making this video.
If you have to interpret the radar as if it were a post modern painting, I think it's time to reconsider if the chase is worth it. Those radar ques are a bit too subtle for me to want to get involved with a chase like that. Thank you again skip for the amazing analysis, you are truly doing a public service.
Excellent presentation, I learned a LOT here and am grateful for your effort, and your time to try to educate Storm Chasers and even the public with these clues about maintaining safety in storms such as Super Cells. I am eally glad none of those people in the tour were killed tho obviously there were severe injuries, and they were totally avoidable. I've had to punch through cores, usually helplessly in the passenger seat, and while there was no tornadoes during these punches, they were still terrifying experiences. I do not recommend it, even in a storm not tornado warned.
I have always been against commercialization of things like storm chasing and climbing Mount Everest. If you don't have the training, you shouldn't be there. If you're an amateur, learning is trial by fire so you better get good fast. Don't rely on someone else to keep you safe unless you're part of a research team. Signed, ~ Me, a meteorologist with a masters degree and 18yr forecasting experience who would never dream of assuming I had the knowledge to chase safely
You can get street level mapping on top of radar with software like GrLevel2, but it's really tough to make animations with it. So I wound up writing my own software just to make videos like this one.
Yeah, I saw this barely miss my town and hit Lawrence instead. I had been out getting my car fixed, saw the storm, tried to warn my parents, and hid out at that auto body shop near Topeka until it was safe to go home. I couldn't get my parents to answer their phones (the calling reception in our area was practically non-existent even on a good day until very recently), but I knew they were aware and ok when they finally frantically spammed me with texts and told me not to come home under any circumstances until they gave me the all-clear. My parents stood on the porch and saw the tornado touch down a few miles away and head into Lawrence.
This is a very good safety video, and a good reminder to spotters and chasers alike, that MUCH more focus needs to be placed on, "What do we do when things go wrong, not 'just' including, but MOST ESPECIALLY, when full 720 degree situational awareness is in DOUBT, let alone LOST. Chase tour operators need to remember they're in a higher profile vehicle and in addition to themselves, they are carrying precious cargo in the form of passengers... and they need to manage risk accordingly, in a far more conservative way, than they might if they were chasing alone. I'm sad for the SLT personnel involved in this incident, and certainly heartbroken for their customers, who got to meet a tornado on ITS pain-inducing terms. We first responders have our hands FULL when severe weather strikes. (I'm a fire chief.) While we'll help anyone who needs it... it'd be a huge favor to us, and the public, if chasers and chaser tour operators would take your safety message to heart. It's bad enough to have 4 chasers killed in the El Reno storm... We as a world, don't need any more names added to that exclusive club.
So basically what I am gathering from this, as an aspiring storm chaser who watches many of your videos, is to locate your target storm using radar and NWS information, gathering info on where your general chasing location will be established, and especially leading up to your chase and choices of storm, you may use radar, but once you are properly engaged with the storm, and interacting with it, it is best in an operational and safety standpoint to operate on storm structure, relying on radar more as a rough guide on where the bulk mass of the storm is heading (The track of the supercell) to plan your rough game-plan for general interception points, and rough basis for escape routes based on storm track. Emphasis on rough, being that you need to keep focus on the storm, and de-ass yourself from the bears cage location and future track with forward planning, visual cues, awareness, and experience.
I did a video covering my chase workflow here: ruclips.net/video/WL7jc4-03Uc/видео.html A chase should start with a really solid forecast. It's important to understand the atmosphere like it's important to understand the water into which you're diving head first. Like pilots flying visual flight rules or VFR, chasers and spotters should be relying on visuals to get their bearings and operate around these storms. Radar helps inform decisions, giving great insight on storm mode, positioning, and track. I use it to hone in on my target from afar, and anticipate what kind of storm I'll be dealing with once I arrive. However, radar shouldn't be relied upon solely for safety decisions. Without that visual reference, a serious lack of situational awareness can occur. Chasers attempting to "fly IFR", off instruments only, can get into serious trouble because the radar doesn't show everything and is easy to misread.
I was on RadarScope this day. This tornado formed just a few miles east of Emporia KS. The tree damage just off the south side of I35 is still evident. I watched the entire track. It was on the ground for so long. I have people that were impacted by it so i had to never take my eyes off of it. It was a beast. I HATE HP supercells...
So did the entire cell of the el Reno monster deviate sporadically or did that massive thing move itself within a parent rotation? Or, was it just a massive cluster of strong vortices that moved in and around a massive rotation and, they would sometimes combine into what was the actual tornado? I've noticed in Leigh Orfs videos, vortices often go everywhere outside of the rotation and are sucked into the parent rotation and updraft. Maybe the stronger vortices are able to act alone for longer periods outside of the parent circulation, dancing on the edges before being sucked in.
In regards to El Reno, yes, to all, kind of. The parent supercell did turn right and vary its speed a bit before and during the tornado formation. This is pretty common supercell behavior. The multi mile wide tornadic circulation itself did exhibit some pretty exceptional motion, deviating significantly from the parent storm's motion. And this is really what got so many chasers in trouble on that storm. The behavior of the subvortices within the larger tornadic circulation was pretty chaotic, and yes at times there was a more well defined large tornadic core, and then at other times more of a group of subvortices within a broad parent circulation. That's not that uncommon on big tornadoes, which often go through a phase of "vortex breakdown". I think Orf's simulations really show this well, smaller infalling vortices are aggregated into a main tornado, but some of the strongest might manifest as a full fledged satellite tornado before they're pulled in.
@@skiptalbot I've been too close to a few without trying and it's not fun when you're off your guard. Was 1/4 mile north of the Albany, GA. EF3 and the local weather people had rotation signatures all over the embedded cell, with no clue of the actual location. Chasing storms in the SE is very rough, I've learned to dodge them by watching tornadohq hours before a squall line hits. The embedded rotations among those QLCS squall lines remain prominent across hundreds of miles sometimes. That's rough but makes it somewhat predictable when guessing how likely you are to get a warning near you 6+ hrs in advance. Those squall lines seem to cycle embedded cells that then move NE as the entire system pushes due East. Often, when looking at the past 48hr mode, you can draw a line from west to east, where most of the cells develop rotation in a somewhat predictable fashion...that way, such an advanced "warning" (if you pay attention) gives plenty of time to bail South. They are often well hidden by strong straight line winds but the Albany EF3 was more like a supercell. VERY large rotation as I could see the clouds wrapping for 20 minutes before I saw a wall of clay stained water (the tornado) to our South as it emerged from behind tall woods and into open farmland. We got lucky, because local weather had no clue how to use imagery or different models. Got stuck in what was possibly an inflow jet outside of Fitzgerald GA. One day trying to punch through a squall line and head West. The storm hadn't been warned for about 30 minutes as we headed south so we cut West and it was warned again right over us. Tried to drag our Tahoe off the road and to the South side ditch. With limbs and rain going from right to left, I knew we probably weren't in it, but I knew we weren't in a good place with winds going south in an easterly moving storm. The terrain is VERY bad for chasing. You can find a chase video of the Albany EF3 and that guy is lucky to be alive. He stayed just North of the tornado for too long with traffic clogging his escape North and only having that one road North with no East option for nearly 3 miles behind him and through the crowd of cars. Plus it was passing over an industrial company with a yard full of empty semi trailers at that point, so he's very lucky it wasn't a little stronger. How much have you studied the QLCS tornadoes? Doesn't seem like a lot of people give them the respect they deserve, or fear. Sudden EF0-EF3 tornadoes are not fun, and people seem to act like supercells are the only real danger. We have very bad outbreaks here in the SE that sometimes come out of nowhere and hurt a lot of people (yes, some due to complacency). Seems like people wouldn't shrug them off. Just seems like most experts don't see them as relevant threats compared to supercells, even when A LOT of supercells don't produce tornadoes. I'm fascinated by all of them, especially since many of them act so differently from one to the next.
I live in KC and I remember watching footage from a tower camera in Bonner Springs as it was pointed to the west watching this thing roll in, and I could see people milling around in an outdoor shopping center without a care in the world as an EF4 tornado was a few scant miles from their position and bearing down fast. I was dumfounded that people could be so misinformed and oblivious to a potentially life threatening situation occurring so close to them.
As one of the people injured by the Lone Star tornado who was on his first (and last) storm-chasing experience, I think this is a terrific video.
Wow. I hope it wasn't bad. Was arm chair chasing that day. Were you in one of the ones that rolled?
@@tangogrrl Yes. I was the one whose neck was broken. I had decided long before taking this trip that it would be a one-time thing, and what happened only reinforced that decision. Luckily, I'm on the road to a full recovery.
Scott Kaufman glad to hear about the recovery. Hope it goes well
@@scottkaufman8537 I'm so glad to hear you are on the road to a full recovery. This was a completely avoidable accident, the fact that others chasing the storm managed to keep safe I think is a testament to that.
@@scottkaufman8537 I'm so sorry to hear it! It sounds like you had the worst injury. Did you know at the time what was happening, or was it too fast? Very happy to hear you're making a full recovery! What a terrifying experience.
Yet another video that perfectly displays why Skip is unquestionably one of the best chasers and educators we’ve got today.
Thank you for making this video, Skip. I loved the way you laid out all of the factors and circumstances that led to what happened-so comprehensive and objective. I also appreciated that you didn’t waste time chastising or vilifying them for what happened; rather, you focused on helping others avoid similar mistakes. I was also very impressed by how much data and video you compiled, and how well you presented it all. Incredibly educational and engaging. You are my favorite chaser and I always appreciate the work you do. You make chasers look good!! Thank you!
I couldn't agree more.
Skip: uploads a 1hr+ tornado doc
Me: “ah shit here we go again”
Fr lol
Hahaha, yes, and I will always drop everything to watch them! Lol!
@@ninabrady8328 Hahaha.. Yeah, the forensic analysis & educational approach in Skip's tornado docs are purrrfect catnip to me. lol
Oh well hell, all we get here in Ohio are those frontal thingies nobody understands. Although we had some no-kidding convective weather this year. I saw a baby cell north of Columbus. It had a rear core, some frontal core rain and a wall cloud. But it wasn't big enough to do anything. It was cute. But it was genuinely convective.
@@northtexasskies3243
Father Laugh Outloud!!
I don't see him being a priest, but ok.
Amazing analysis of the event, Skip. Thanks for spending the many hours this video no doubt took to make.
Very professional, no speculation about SLT's decision making or management, just analysis of the on-site decisions and how to manage your situation awareness. As always, thorough and concise.
Fantastic video Skip. I was on that tour and fortunately for me, the van I was in only got a good battering and not rolled. The way the tour group operate is in military convoy. Van 1 first with the leader, then 2, 3 and 4. This appeared quite rigid, but on this occasion, when we turned around and headed south, the vans left in reverse order. Maybe the drivers 'felt' something was not quite right. Vans 3 and 4 managed to escape whereas vans 1 and 2 were not so lucky. Feel so sorry for everyone effected, Scott especially. Lucky for him he is a strong guy. When I arrived home and explained all this to my family and friends, they said surely the tour company was totally negligent. I agreed, but had signed the wavers as described in another post. I was aware of the risks with storm chasing, but never expected to be caught up in one, especially as I chose a highly regarded organisation to guide me safely. Was not aware of their previous close call or may have chose another one instead. Having read some facebook posts about this company, it appears they have a large following who think the sun shines out of their (you know where). Even after this incident, they could do no wrong! Being English, I struggle to understand this, but maybe that's just me. On a positive note, i've made friends on the trip who I would never have met any other way. On a side issue, I will be back next year, but with a different company. Stay safe folks.
Thank you for the comments and insight. It means a lot coming from someone on the tour. I've had several people message me relating other stories of close calls they had on SLT tours in past years. I had no idea some tours were chasing in such an aggressive manner until I started working on this project. I had even recommended SLT to people many times in the past (you could probably dig up some of those comments on this channel), not based on any personal experience, but on their reputation and long standing history. Their motives for the maneuvers they took on that fateful day of your tour, and whatever consequences that follow are outside the scope of this presentation. I just want to help other chasers and spotters not make the same mistake. There is a dangerously widespread and prevalent pattern of behavior among chasers to race south across the path of the tornado or bear's cage. However, if you suspect there was something like negligence going on here, you should seek some legal advice as I've heard waivers do not stand up in such cases. It would suck if people are being left as victims or stuck with a huge financial burden over this.
@@skiptalbot Appreciate all you say Skip. What's the phrase in that film: 'The days of sniffing the dirt are over'. Lets hope not! Going forward, lets hope professionals in the storm chasing industry can harness technology as well as their experience in the field as you so brilliantly described.
Glad you survived this. Had you been a mile further north east......
@a300dave do you have a copy of the waiver you signed? I’m just wondering if there is any room for legal action. I think it can be proven that SLT took a risky, unnecessary action. Reputable chasers know better than to do what they did. It demonstrates that they either A. Don’t know what they are doing or B. Don’t care what they are doing. Unless there is some type of verbiage in that waiver that says the tour operator may make maneuvers that are not recognized as safe by the chasing community and you are aware that they will do so, I would say there is wiggle room there and you should sue the hell out of them.
@@beatlemyn thing is there is no "Law" or regulation when it comes to that sort of thing and they likely could say that the customers Signed the waiver stating that its possible that you may get injured or killed if you go on this trip and thus they are no longer legally held responsible for injuries (or worse blame the drivers and get them fined and fired) what I'm saying is unless there is specifically a set of laws regarding safe tornado chasing covering the entirety of tornado alley SLT can likely say that they did all that they were "Legally required" to do and get off scot free
I’m not a storm chaser... definitely not a meteorologist... In fact, I don’t even live in tornado alley, but I find these videos absolutely fascinating!
31:15 Another point to this, of not relying too heavily on radar scans, but learning to identify storm structure for situational awareness is that I've seen a number of chasers recently say that they lost cell service/signal in rural areas resulting in close calls with storms because their radar scans were outdated. If the only tool you use to position yourself is radar, you're severely limiting yourself.
Skip, I wanted to take the time to say how well thought out and professionally presented your videos are. It’s clear that you have an analytical mind that can bring in multiple details together with ease, and layer them in a way that the common viewer can understand. I appreciate the video and thank you!
It seems like SLT got suckered into believing the indicated “rotation” to the north was the danger area, hence they left to the south...apparently unaware of the smaller rotation couplet that actually was the ongoing tornado. This is further confirmed by an early SLT statement that they were “hit by a satellite”.
Excellent overview and detailed explanation, Skip.
So was the tornado that hit SLT the ongoing tornado or a satellite? I find the SLT statement to be a contradiction of facts as at the time of impact, the northern 'rotation' had yet to spawn the EF4. How could the southern tornado be a satellite of a tornado that didn't exist (yet)?
"I find the SLT statement to be a contradiction of facts..." That is the reason for this presentation. SLT staff and some of their supporters are not being entirely truthful about what happened. Is it to cover their own asses or simply because they don't know any better? I'll let you guess which. But some of these people are highly influential leaders in the chaser community. Others look up to them and follow their lead. By misidentifying parts of the storm, and not being straightforward about what happened and the outcome, SLT staff are undermining decades of hard earned knowledge on storm structure and best safety practices for chasing. I'm terrified that new and aspiring chasers are going suck up the misinformation they're spreading and become victims by falling into the same easily preventable mistakes SLT made. SLT was not hit by a satellite. It was the main tornado of a very large, long-lived mesocyclone. The tornado that hit them was long-track, significant, had been in progress for miles and minutes before it hit them, and was pendent to the parent mesocyclone, tracking right along in a nearly straight line with the track of the parent mesocyclone. That they couldn't see it until it impacted them should not be an excuse. The storm was warned for tornadoes, displayed obvious structure suggesting where a tornado might be, and the tornado was located in a characteristically typical part of the storm.
@@Jimbo700 ongoing tornado. NWS reports indicate the tornado that hit SLT formed in Osage County SE of Overbrook about 10 minutes before they drove into it. The notion that they were struck by a satellite is horseshit.
@@skiptalbot Thank you for your detailed analysis. As an "armchair" observer it seems that they should have clearly known the danger but took unnecessary risks that put them in harms way. If someone like Tim Samaras could miscalculate and lose their life, then taking vanloads of "tourists" into harms way should have consequences!
@@skiptalbot ive always think that admitting a mistake is better and causing less damage then covering your ass. those who know will no longer beleve you and those who dont will one day find out.
Any one else notice how shady it is for SLT to leave this particular day out of their Tour Logs on their website?
Probably on the advice of their attorneys.
Don't you have to sign a waiver stating you won't hold them responsible for death or injury when you do a storm chasing tour?
@@RepentfollowJesus Pretty sure, they do. However, storm chasing tours like the SLT should be careful and not reckless. They should care about the tourists because a spectacular experience can turn into a traumatic or a deadly one. Tourists may not have seen a tornado before; therefore, nervous.
Sure it may guarantee that the storm chasers aren't accountable if tourists signed the contract, but they should be aware of tourists are present, give them tips, and show how a storm chaser can also help survivors. They should not put them in too much danger.
Moreover, SLT tour guide, Rodgers, seems a bit reckless to me from another tour in Storm Stories: Tornado Six Pack. He drives dangerously close to the tornado while trying to get ahead of it. He also tried to escape the second one by driving forward and unsure if the road ends. Based upon the video, he didn't seem to check on the family whose house had been hit. With the mind of the tourists, he could have just stayed behind the tornado and not get ahead of it in case it changes directions. The second one, he should've turned back around to the road he was familiar with. A heavy-close up of the tornado is not worth risking anyone's lives.
Contracts or not, if a storm chaser has a record of tourists having traumatic experiences, injuries, deaths, despite not being held responsible, it does raise suspicion.
Edit: Some spelling errors.
@@RepentfollowJesus Yes, but if the tour guides are found to not be demonstrating due diligence, that contract will not hold up.
@@RepentfollowJesus sorry, just now seeing this. Signing a waiver doesn’t guarantee you will not have any rights in situations like this. Wanton disregard will nullify a waiver almost every time. A contract such as these a lot of time aren’t worth the ink used to sign them.
Human: "Flee south"
Tornado: "So, you have chosen death"
The section about convergence vs. rotation and drawing a line to the radar site is brilliant. I remember reading about this, the tour believed they were hit by a satellite tornado 2 miles SW of the 'parent rotation' -the large red/green blob of converging winds Skip points out.
Yes. Thinking you understand your tools, but not actually knowing what you are doing is extremely dangerous in cases like this.
Just watched another video about this and someone claiming to be a driver from this SLT group was in the comments saying exactly that - unfortunately downplaying their responsibility seems to be the priority over learning from their mistakes.
This is by far the most comprehensive lesson
I've come across since I've been studying thunderstorms.
Thank you Skip!
That was quite a presentation, Mr. Talbot. As a scientist myself, I can appreciate your comprehensive and detailed presentation. Your objective and detached analysis of the accident based on those facts is impressive.
Spectacular analysis as always. Extremely professional and objective, as well as informative. I base my chase style around your safety tips and it hasn't led me astray yet. Folks need to see this, along with your other similar videos, and take the lessons to heart. Otherwise, as you said in the video, future injuries and fatalities are inevitable.
Great analysis, Skip. Some serious truth in the bit about all of us essentially being amateurs in these storms - no one is going to be perfect, no matter their experience, education or skill...that's been a painfully learned lesson throughout the last decade.
It's more counterproductive to blame nature & ignore our own faults & errors.
The ability to learn from mistakes is an undervalued skill.
from a legal standpoint one would think core punching, hook slicing, or being within 3 miles of any circulation would be a massive insurance liability for the tour groups. I know they want to see a tornado, but like with El Reno, just assume the whole spinning rain curtain is the tornado and be thankful you can see it. if there would have been a loss of life, the liability of the tour would have been such that they should just give the families a blank check and shut down. heck one could make a case that the drivers/guides were being criminally negligent. I just don't understand it even for a solo team going into the bear's cage much less a caravan of tourists.
Not really. They sign liability waivers. There would be no law suit because the families wouldn't have a leg to stand on. You can't claim negligence when people KNOW that there is the possibility of a tornado and they are volunteering to get closer to it. The only issue that could happen would be if the tour deliberately drove into the tornado in a reckless fashion, rather than just trying to stay within a viewable distance. That would be extremely difficult to prove since tornado's can take an unpredictable path. Very doubtful a lawyer would take on the case on the sole basis of someone being injured during a storm chasing tour. Their odds of winning the case aren't that high and even if they did win the case, the settlement would likely be small. I don't think these tour operators are trying to get that close to a tornado. After all those vehicles are their business and they don't want to destroy them or injure themselves.
@@mikel9567 Liability waivers can & are defeated in court every single day of the wk, including from this incident. There were MULTIPLE lawsuits & they all settled out of court, w/confidentiality agreements. Legally, there are more reasons than I can count that nullify these waivers. A good attorney can almost always beat them. Like it or not, that’s the system. And why the tour company carried massive insurance.
@@maryb6672 How do you know that there were "MULTIPLE lawsuits & they all settled out of court, w/confidentiality agreements"? You're correct about waivers. Despite the waiver, Silver Lining Tours still owed a duty of care to its tour guests, and while the waiver might protect SLT against claims of simple negligence involving the inherent risks of storm chasing, it probably wouldn't protect them from conduct that was grossly negligent or reckless.
I could listen to this guy talking about tornados all day.
Last time skip did one of these type of video if I’m not mistaken was on the El Reno Tornado couple years back. I came across this video in see that 1hr clip I was like “uh oh this had to be one of those rare tornadoes like the el Reno one..... click” lol. Great video
Bronx Born 53 it just showed up in my recommends. Saw skip, saw length. *click*
Lol yup! I thought it was another crazy wild unpredictable storm. But instead it was highly predictable and nearly textbook. Ope!
Why are there so many downvotes? Seems high for a video like this.
I think this incident seems to be a point of contention with some.
@@L.J.McEachern evidently. I dont know enough i suppose
LadyAnder maybe some think it’s a little too soon to be discussing this event but it’s a discussion that needs to be had sooner rather than later, wouldn’t want a repeat of this mishap next tornado season
SLT doesn't want this incident discussed or to receive any criticism for their choices. There are a couple of videos about this where some folks in the comments that are defending SLT attack the people making the videos. I'm guessing that also includes downvoting them.
The funny thing is, anyone who's ever watched one of Skip's videos knows they aren't made to criticize and chastise decisions made by storm chasers, rather they are made to analyze and learn from these incidents, in order to help chasers and spotters operate more safely in the future.
Well obviously mistakes were made. Skip laid it out pretty calmly and logically. People should save their downvotes for things that justify them.
Wow! I appreciate your professional courtesy throughout this presentation. You could have easily (and understandably) been tempted to accuse, but didn't. Well done. I have always learned so much from your presentations.
Wild to think that the night before this happened I had played some cells near where I live, then called it off when it got dark. But the general paths of the storms made for bad chasing. Plus with the lighting conditions, it was also incredibly dangerous. To say the least, I only saw one tornado the night before, but that was more than enough since it crossed in front of me as I called it quits and was heading east. Consequently, I also avoided getting seriously injured as the storms I abandoned rolled into Dayton.
Events such as the 28th (This video) and the events the night before (My chase) emphasize and reinforce the points you made in your Now Legendary El-Reno tornado analysis and this video serves as a warning to chasers to be careful and always maintain situational awareness.
Storms and Saugeye glad you were safe. crazy that the only one you saw was a surprise one will you were leaving
I live for these safety breakdowns by you, Skip. Great work.
As a Kansas resident, I really appreciate all the effort and analysis put into this video. It will help me make informed identification and decision making when the next storm comes!
Fantastic presentation! Especially when showing the scale radar comparisons, and simulated rain wrapped images from the field. Where you toggled the actual view to a simulated rain wrap. That was the moment it all clicked for me. Your explanation and visual illustration of the patterns to look for became incredibly clear from then forward. To where I could easily pick them out before you drew them. Thank you for putting this together!
For a experienced storm chaser to be in the situation they were in at Joplin on rangeline is frankly embarrassing.
I moved into Joplin a few years after and am very familiar with the area now. The storm path. The timing and the radar scans. For them to be driving on rangeline in the path of it is just unbelievable.
First let me state that I'm not a fan of SLT or the whole concept of tourist storm chasing...but it's their privilege...but SLT can be "forgiven" for Joplin....that blew up so quickly that it almost caught most chasers flat-footed...they made good decisions at El Reno....but here....failed one of Skip's main rules....they lost situational awareness and made a bad decision worse....//
Once panic sets in, decision making becomes non existent. HP storms are not very well understood at all, if we're honest, and are therefore particularly dangerous to chase.
@@questionitall3053 how are they not very well understood? HP in meteorological terms means High Precipitation meaning a LOT of rain and possibly large hail right?
A year later, but wow, I love this analysis! Thank you so much for doing these kinds of videos. It makes all of us safer, especially if we want to become chasers ourselves.
Nice work Skip. A discussion some don't want to have, but in my opinion, essential if we want to preserve the future of storm chasing.
Another outstanding video! Very well done, clearly explained, and highly informative and educational. As a regular chase tour patron, I thank you for your tireless efforts to help make all us amateurs better at what we love to do.
As a Lawrence resident whose mother is the Topeka National Weather Service Meteorologist In Charge and was scared absolutely sh**less when this storm hit, I greatly appreciate this video.
Just passed storm spotting training a few days ago, this helped a lot after passing with additional information, amazing tips and safety measures I'll be using if and when storm spotting.
Can't thank you enough!
Time the **_hell_** out . . . The van at 15:09 _DIDN'T HAVE ITS LIGHTS ON!?!?_ That, and a blacked out hood made the thing hard enough to see on video, let alone actually being there.
They ought to be damn thankful that Jeep's driver saw them and didn't pull into the road.
I had trouble on my large cell phone telling if the van's hood was ripped off or what. They really need to paint it white or any other light color.
Driving in those conditions with the lights off is a sure sign of reckless driving. It was only a matter of time before the wrecks happened to them with that attitude. I hope they change, or else some unsuspecting passenger that doesn't watch this video will be killed on a future chase.
This is why I have an issue with "sightseeing tours"!
It is one thing to have people like Skip who are working for scientific or informative reasons, vs people who are just thrillseekers.
These storms are impacting the lives of people who live there. Every farmstead, acreage, etc represents their homes & livelyhoods, unnecessary vehicles in these areas creates congestion and risk for those who may be trying to escape or seeking shelter!
@@timnewman1172 not exactly true. I'm from Europe and my ultimate dream holiday is storm chasing. Not for the thrill. But the science behind it and to understand more about this kind of storm's. Over here in Europe woe don't have the network of radars like they do in the US. I've encountered some little mesocyclones and one big one (drove without knowing in the rfd of it) luckily it didn'tgive a tornado. Sow how on earth can i come storm chasing without knowing someone who's storm chasing?
@@frederikjacob1985 study up on it using videos like these and drive yourself, staying a very safe distance away from the track of the storm. You don't need to know anyone into storm chasing to get into yourself. Like Skip says it isnt regulated and every chaser is an amateurs and even those with Meteorology degrees don't inherently know how to chase storms. Study up, learn it yourself from chasers like Skip, and go out on your own.
Thats how I got into storm chasing. I quit a few years after the Hackleburg, AL EF5 which I experienced first hand as that was my home. The sounds and noises of that monster going directly over me left me with some mental scars that cause anxiety attacks which is what led me to stop chasing.
This is probably the best storm-chasing primer on the internet. It will be a must-watch for anyone who joins me on future chases.
Phenomenal analysis. Much of it over my head. I hear these terms all the time but have never seen such a thorough and comprehensive explanation. I certainly will be watching this again. Thanks Skip!
I was there. He’s got my footage in there. Thanks a bunch Skip. Dalton Coody is the name, EF-4’s are my game😎
Awesome video once again Skip.
You and Hank Pecos should team up and start a Storm chasing tour company. I would definitely book with you guys.
I don't think either of them would want that responsibility. As you may know, Skip and Hank have teamed up on some research projects.
Your retrospective analysis videos are brilliant, and all come from a place of positivity and safety. Great work again Skip.
This is just enormously helpful, Skip. The info is clear, succinct, accurate, and fascinating to boot. I honestly think you've saved lives with this. Next time you take another deep dive into the particulars of these storms and situations, count me in! Best of luck to you. -seth
Good stuff Skip. I notice your tone is a bit more adamant these days - and rightly so. First responders have more important things to do than deal with chasers who, as you rightfully say, should know better. I do think this is a valuable refresh of the "El Reno Course" as it provides additional scenarios that are a little harder to read. Thought - your crossing guards analogy is very apt. Maybe we should call the bear's cage just that - the crossing guard. Keep up the good work my friend. You are saving lives.
Thanks Skip for another great in-depth review of a tornado-chaser impact event. Sometimes the "pros" get it wrong and you breakdown the facts extremely well.
Densely and concisely informative, clear and entertaining, brilliantly illustrated, very logical, creative, and charitable analysis. You should get an award or a PhD for this.
Your videos are the best training for storm chasers. Any chaser with a brain should watch them.
Bowdle ,SD resident here. Just want to thank you for videos like this. They help me out big time on being able to identify when I should be ready, and when I need to get out. I would chase regardless if these videos exsisted or not , but they allow me to chase in a safer manner than I would if they didn't exsist.
Excellent work, Skip! Thanks for taking the time to put this together. I really hope chasers choose to take this message to heart and benefit from it.
Really educational, Skip, thank you! I've been away from the midwest for years, but continue to build my knowledge to chase again one day when the opportunity presents itself. Your "storm anatomy" video solidified early on that while radar is helpful, the golden rule of chasing is "know (what you're looking at) or go!". It's kept me safe all this time!
Thank you Skip for another very informative look into Storm Chasing. Also proving that this is a dangerous hobby and anyone chasing needs to be prepared for changing conditions and have the proper knowledge and equipment when chasing.
We need more chasers like Skip, good work!
Yes we do
Skip Talbot and Pecos Hank, among others, are Legends !!! thankful for all they do to help others !!!
I agree, he reminds me of Fujita
Well done Skip. The topic of trial and error and learning from each other’s mistakes is spot on. I always learn something new or have a better handle on something from these videos. It’s humbling in a good way.
Skip Talbot's knowledge, experience and analysis of tornado/storm chasing are, along with the Legendary Pecos Hank, the very best I've seen on You Tube !!!
This may be the most not only informational but educational tornado genesis through the life cycle I have seen on YT. Amazing work.
The best descriptions , definitions, and instructions I have seen to date. Thanks Skip.
I now looked at a few more videos of tornadoes, and your explanation is spot on.
I it helps recognize where the danger is quite well, even for someone who doesn't even live in the USA.
Man I love these videos - a lot to learn :)
Also from the 25:35 - it (kinda) seems to me like they thought something bigger/more dangerous was waiting for them ahead or could happen soon enough if they continued (which turned out to be that EF4 a few minutes later a bit to the east) so that's why they turned around.
EDIT: yep, 4 minutes later there is an answer :D
Not a storm chaser and I do not live in area prone to any real tornados but I very much enjoy these videos for some reason. Incredibly well done and as good as content on YT gets. Thanks, skip!
50mins
"I'm going to tell you why this maneuver is not only dangers, but wrong!
50mins+
"I'm going to do this maneuver myself and tell you wtf I was wrong omg"
Brilliant video. Extremely informative and smart.
Another very informative video Skip! I'm glad I decided not to chase this day. I've been chasing for around 5 years and chased on May 27th 2019 south of Kansas City. The flooding was so bad I decided to drive out to Illinois and wait for the next severe weather event to present itself. Chasers need to be aware of all hazards they may be encountering before deciding to take on a chase. Like you say there will always be another storm.
Thank you Skip for this very comprehensive and detailed analysis of supercells, interpretation of radar images, and how to chase safe.
It would be a nice test: if you go chasing with tour operators, or friends with unknown risk behaviour, show them some pictures and ask them how they would decide.
Something I think about a lot since the Lone Star incident is a close call with an F3 tornado SLT had back in 2002 in South Dakota. Different situations in that a) the tornado was visible, and b) they were heading east and were initially behind the tornado. When the decision to get further east to try and get in front of it, the tornado made a SE swoop and they inadvertently ended up driving in the new path, missing it by only a few hundred yards. The only reason why I think about it was because in the video from that day, even though initially the tornado was moving due east initially, it still seemed precariously close to the road to attempt to even get close to it.
Excellent video. Absolutely no reason to have put these people in harm's way. They had computers with radar. No excuse whatsoever.
In this presentation, Skip Talbot is classic Bill Paxton’s character and the SLT chase leader being Cary Elwes’ character. All from the luxury of hindsight. Impressive presentation that will improve chase safety in the future.
June Han it’s funny because i have a lot of respect for Roger Hill as a chaser. He’s probably one of the most experienced and smart chasers alive today. I just feel like the urge to get a close up tornado view for his well paying customers overtook him on this day, and safety took a backseat to this urge which is where he screwed up. He led his team and his customers into a very dangerous situation that could have been much worse. I don’t consider him a bad guy that doesn’t know what he’s doing, quite the opposite actually, i just feel like he made a critical mistake in judgement like we humans are all capable of making sometimes.
I think the real "Jonas" is Reed Timmer lol - they have nearly the same mannerisms
GREAT JOB as always! I wasn’t going to mention Joplin until I saw those indignant quotes at the end. That means they didn’t learn anything from it. A couple of minutes later, Skip covered it. Wonder what happened in El Reno?
One of my favorite channels on RUclips!
I live in Gardner and seeing all of these places I have been to is surreal. My Uncle was chasing the tornado in his old jeep. His jeep broke down and the tornado changed directions and he luckily got it started and was able to get out of there. I was in Branson at the time and wasnt there to be doing tornado stuff.
I live in Gardner now, but I was living in Bonner Springs when that one went through Linwood, I thought for sure it was going to hit Bonner too, we lived about 8 miles from where it hit. I didn't see it, but you could hear the rumbling of it, my son thought it was thunder, but my father in-law said that was the tornado.
Me too! I headed out when it was tornado warned, with a set limit to remain on 56 and (tentatively) no further west than 59. I stopped in Baldwin for a radar check to see the storm's progression, and was fully prepared to turn my butt back around if necessary. The video starting at 1:11:51 is what I saw from my vantage point at 56 & 59 hwy when it was slightly more east of that location. If I didn't know beforehand what was going on, I would have mistaken it for a rain shaft.
Another excellent presentation and analysis of events. Thank you sharing this report. and the different parts of the tornado, like the bear cage, notch and in flow. Also, the thick rain cloud/wrap that can block a tornado's view. Again thank you for the video.
Thanks Skip! Excellent analysis!
I think there were just WAY too many signs here for SLT.
I suspect they simply became “human” and really wanted to deliver on what otherwise might have been a day without a visible tornado.
When you bring others that aren’t as aware of what is going on, you MUST stay logical, even if it means your tour sees nothing but some rain.
The video in the van, there were looking at reflectivity on the radar, they really should have had velocity, at least on 1/2 the screen.
ESPECIALLY that close.
That said, it’s easy to play armchair quarterback after the fact.
But even before the detailed analysis, I was looking at trek track and saying to myself “WTF are they doing!?!?”
This video will do more to educate than 50 storm chaser videos screaming at a tornado they saw.
👍🏻
Did these people learn _nothing_ from El Reno? 3 highly-experienced storm chasers lost their lives because they were caught in something that was erratic and heavily rain-wrapped. Hell, a tourist group was nearly impacted by that one as well.
I didn’t realize you had this video. The EF4 here hit my cousin in Linwood. The damage to their property was crazy. We were still logging the downed trees during covid.
I was hit by a tornado in a similar van (family car driven by my dad) and I was assigned by my dad the job to watch for the storm. My oldest brother was the navigator, with a GPS and an atlas of maps. His job was to find alternate routes at every intersection. Dad drove as the only adult. My sister prayed. Another brother sang every verse of “I will survive” for motivation and my other siblings alternated between screaming and stoic silence.
I did my best. Successfully navigated us away from one EF1 before that. But this storm came up on us faster than the rest of the line when we needed gas. We had nothing, and we probably had about 40-60 seconds before it hit us, where heavy rain hit then dead silence and we talked about how we didn’t like what was ahead of us or what was behind either. My dad, with nowhere to go, slowed our van to a crawl. We were all on vacation visiting my grandparents, unfamiliar with the area, and had 0 chasing experience. I had some basic understanding or tornado dynamics from RUclips and that was it.
That decision my dad made was excellent because a little dust devil sized thing appeared in front of us. Another showed up to the left. And then there were a bunch, like a forest of them. I wrote down as much as I could remember in my diary afterwards and between me and my oldest brother and dad we counted 6 over the course of what followed. The one in front sub vortex flipped a F-150 onto its side in front of us, suddenly the Prius off to our right disappeared into the right ditch, in a cloud of dust, and the tiny thing spun out a sedan and either a midsized SUV or a normal van (it was the car furthest from us and hardest to see) on the left and we kept going right after that. We went slow and hoped they didn’t get us. Then pouring rain with a bit of hail and it was over. I am still not sure if we were in the central tornado or just the bear’s cage of that storm. Scary.
We drove as fast as possible away from that storm. We all thought that our car was going to be flipped and I remember my dad yelling that everyone better have seatbelts on and to hold on tight. I had a backpack and a blanket over one of my younger sisters and another sibling had the same on our littler brother. We’ve been talking about it lately since we are now all adults and how it shows we all have similar terrible gallows humour when things are going south. (Ironic because we were actually hoping to get out of that storm’s way fast enough by going south).
This video and the one with Tanner and Chris really remind me of that day. When I chased I never chased close to storms that reminded me of that storm. I really think the fractal pattern in the meso, tornado cyclone and tornado itself give you an idea of the way the sub vortices will move and I don’t want to be near any as close again. I am more focused on trying to get the shot that shows the whole fractal movement when I have chased, because it’s a shot further away from the rotation of the tornado itself and that is the pattern that interests me anyway.
I couldn't believe that chasing tour got into an accident like they did, like you said they are extremely experienced. But I guess anytime you're messing with severe weather, especially with how the storms have changed over the years it seems, an excess amount of prudence need to be added to everyone including the General Public. You do a phenomenal job with these videos! And you do it with a MASSIVE amount of tact, proper research, respect!
Happy chasing to everyone! I'm rewatching this video againHappy chasing to everyone! I'm just re-watching these videos you've made, because they're definitely made to be watched more than once!! :-)
59:10 Crazy thing about this is that even though the central multivortex of the El Reno could have been 2 miles away… he would have still been half a mile inside the tornado force wind zone…
I chased this storm coming north from Kansas city into Lawrence, and I got there just as it was passing the 59; from my perspective it was a rain wrapped mess.
Thank you for your presence here, Skip. We need to hear from experts like you.
Good video, very well done & some good info in general.
Really paints a picture as to what may have happened that day.
Also finally gives me a good visual for why 'just go south' can be so dangerous.(though I'm assuming 'go south' is fairly safe *if* you don't get so close ... and if I do eventually get the chance to go chasing, I plan on staying a good safe distance away)
I had watched the Joplin video many times before watching this and never realized the mistakes and risk that those teams exercised. All of those people are extremely lucky to be alive, and were only spared as a result of the tornados slow churn across the southern portion of the city.
And again, Skip delivers on safety discussion on this subject. Thank you for making these sorts of videos.
This video is incredibly well done! As someone who is a complete novice when it comes to understanding storm structure I feel like I've gained a lot of understanding of why this situation was so dangerous. Your visuals were extremely helpful.
I don't want to speculate too much on why SLT made the decisions they did, just as you refrained from doing so. However, with core-punching being so dangerous, it's baffling to me that someone would make the decision to core-punch or try to outrun the core when the lives and safety of customers depend on their expertise and good judgement.
I think Skip has been remarkably generous to SLT in this review, and the truth is far more worrying. This tour operator nearly got people killed because they were reckless and criminally negligent. They *should* have known where the predicted track of the forecasters' tornado was and avoided crossing it. They definitely shouldn't have then crossed it *again*, doubling back on themselves having only just successfully scraped ahead of the bear's cage. They absolutely should have, with their decades of experience, been able to recognise the bear's cage region of a storm and avoided it, even if their radar data was possibly indicating something else. I am not a lawyer, but if I was and I was representing the inevitable class action suit from SLT's tour group, I think I might consider calling Skip Talbot as an expert witness to testify to this negligence as an experienced chaser who was able to recognise these dangers. I know the tour group would have signed indemnity waivers as storm chasing is inherently dangerous, however those can't cover situations like this where criminal negligence is likely to have occurred. I certainly wouldn't want to go on an SLT tour if nothing else! Their lack of care for those on their tours is just appalling, and is even worse considering their response after this incident.
So I agree with most of what you say here. However, I should point out that the the aim of the video was to assist spotters and chasers going forward, not rake SLT over the coals for their mistakes, even if they did demonstrate negligence. I don't see any good that would come from that. That's for the courts if it comes to it. So it's not like I'm intentionally going easy on SLT here. Instead we need good, objective sources of information from outside sources that can benefit everyone. Much of this video was dedicated to correcting misinformation disseminated by SLT staff (and other chasers) after the event occurred. There should be ample warning here to spotters and chasers about the dangers involved, not only with these maneuvers, but about chasing with others in general. Commercial tour or not, when you take a trip with a chaser, you're trusting your life to somebody who is not professionally trained or certified in any real capacity. I'd hope everyone signing up for a tour or trip realizes that.
@@skiptalbot very admirable, and I totally agree that the focus should be on learning from these mistakes. SLT have stated that they believe they were hit by a satellite tornado from a circulation to the North East of them, which you've pretty conclusively proved wasn't the case with an excellent analysis of that day's events and the information they would have had at that time. I just hope that SLT and the like will actually heed this and improve their own practices, even if they won't acknowledge their mistakes publicly. Nicely done on the knowledge drop, dude. Always a pleasure seeing your work!
30:45 in other words:
The convergence signature is the region where the cold rear flank downdraft air causes the inflow to separate from the ground and overcome the CIN, the updraft close to the ground strengthens explosively and the air is sucked into the meso cyclone. The horizontal vorticity of the inflow, caused by the forward flanking line, is tilted upwards and is stretched at the same time by the updraft which causes the spin up of the next tornado. That would be consistent with the simulation of Leigh Orf and from what I understand from his presentations.
This is really interesting and the first time I'm seeing someone mentioning the convergence lines that move towards the mesocyclone, merge with it and evidently cause a tornado.
Raises the questions: How many of the big tornados show such a pattern and can we uses that to predict tornados 10 or 15minutes before they go ground up ("touch down")?
I chased with another tour group last year. We poked fun at SLT a lot during the tour. I love chasing but I would definitely not go with them. It seems like Roger knows what he's doing isn't safe, but the urge to get extremely close overtakes him and he ends up taking massive risks
Even the late, great Tim Samaris, who was noted for his safety, could not read one of these monster HP storms. We don't really know anything about them.
Goodness, Skip, I sure hope you didn't get harassed from SLT on this. :(
Thank you for releasing this video. Very informative! My husband and one of my sons have always talked about going chasing. This is something they should watch as ongoing prep.
I drive by the damage path of this tornado SE of Lawrence often; it's amazing seeing the tree damage where it crossed K-10 highway
I just stumbled onto this. Outstanding vid, Skip. Early on when you were discussing high precip storms, I immediately flashed back to your el reno vids. I'm guessing you're not a big fan of Timmer and some of the other ultra aggressive chasers.
Very Professional, very informative, I love your videos. I learn more in your videos than I have in numerous spotter courses. Thank you. Great video, keep them coming!
5 trees over in one of the videos you just showed, Skip Talbot, there is a Tornado that I found within that picture. This was extremely detailed. WOW!
Jeez! These folks never knew what hit them. 😿
Personally, I think the biggest misconception that beginners have, is that every tornado has a textbook funnel structure, is visible from 20 miles away, and stretches up thousands of feet into nice clear air with cloud bases 8,000 ft. AGL. And that all you have to do is cast your index finger to the windshield, and declare, “There it is!”
Maybe in Eastern Colorado with low surface humidities... but even then, such simplicity can NEVER be assumed.
Like you said Skip, from the looks of things, these guys probably thought they were just leisurely cruising through garden variety heavy rain & low visibility.
The fact that the difference is so indiscernible to some, is the scariest thing of all!
I would probably be one of those people who don’t know any better, so that is why I “stay my ass” in California- where the sun just shines, and it’s hot & dry in the spring & summer.
I don't know what with those thumb down. I travel around America to see all beautiful places and people. I was in the middle of a giant cloud and things start spinning around like crazy. Driving alone not knowing how to prepare myself. By watching this video give me better idea how to plan ahead and more aware of my surroundings. I want to Thank You for taking your time making this video.
Thank you so much for this Skip. Awesome video and very informative.
Such good important information, Skip. You're doing amazing work.
If you have to interpret the radar as if it were a post modern painting, I think it's time to reconsider if the chase is worth it. Those radar ques are a bit too subtle for me to want to get involved with a chase like that.
Thank you again skip for the amazing analysis, you are truly doing a public service.
Excellent presentation, I learned a LOT here and am grateful for your effort, and your time to try to educate Storm Chasers and even the public with these clues about maintaining safety in storms such as Super Cells.
I am eally glad none of those people in the tour were killed tho obviously there were severe injuries, and they were totally avoidable. I've had to punch through cores, usually helplessly in the passenger seat, and while there was no tornadoes during these punches, they were still terrifying experiences. I do not recommend it, even in a storm not tornado warned.
I have always been against commercialization of things like storm chasing and climbing Mount Everest. If you don't have the training, you shouldn't be there. If you're an amateur, learning is trial by fire so you better get good fast. Don't rely on someone else to keep you safe unless you're part of a research team.
Signed,
~ Me, a meteorologist with a masters degree and 18yr forecasting experience who would never dream of assuming I had the knowledge to chase safely
How'd you overlay the radar on that map? That is really cool. Also, very good analysis, thanks!
You can get street level mapping on top of radar with software like GrLevel2, but it's really tough to make animations with it. So I wound up writing my own software just to make videos like this one.
@@skiptalbot WOW
Yeah, I saw this barely miss my town and hit Lawrence instead. I had been out getting my car fixed, saw the storm, tried to warn my parents, and hid out at that auto body shop near Topeka until it was safe to go home. I couldn't get my parents to answer their phones (the calling reception in our area was practically non-existent even on a good day until very recently), but I knew they were aware and ok when they finally frantically spammed me with texts and told me not to come home under any circumstances until they gave me the all-clear. My parents stood on the porch and saw the tornado touch down a few miles away and head into Lawrence.
This is a very good safety video, and a good reminder to spotters and chasers alike, that MUCH more focus needs to be placed on, "What do we do when things go wrong, not 'just' including, but MOST ESPECIALLY, when full 720 degree situational awareness is in DOUBT, let alone LOST.
Chase tour operators need to remember they're in a higher profile vehicle and in addition to themselves, they are carrying precious cargo in the form of passengers... and they need to manage risk accordingly, in a far more conservative way, than they might if they were chasing alone.
I'm sad for the SLT personnel involved in this incident, and certainly heartbroken for their customers, who got to meet a tornado on ITS pain-inducing terms.
We first responders have our hands FULL when severe weather strikes. (I'm a fire chief.) While we'll help anyone who needs it... it'd be a huge favor to us, and the public, if chasers and chaser tour operators would take your safety message to heart.
It's bad enough to have 4 chasers killed in the El Reno storm... We as a world, don't need any more names added to that exclusive club.
So basically what I am gathering from this, as an aspiring storm chaser who watches many of your videos, is to locate your target storm using radar and NWS information, gathering info on where your general chasing location will be established, and especially leading up to your chase and choices of storm, you may use radar, but once you are properly engaged with the storm, and interacting with it, it is best in an operational and safety standpoint to operate on storm structure, relying on radar more as a rough guide on where the bulk mass of the storm is heading (The track of the supercell) to plan your rough game-plan for general interception points, and rough basis for escape routes based on storm track. Emphasis on rough, being that you need to keep focus on the storm, and de-ass yourself from the bears cage location and future track with forward planning, visual cues, awareness, and experience.
I did a video covering my chase workflow here: ruclips.net/video/WL7jc4-03Uc/видео.html A chase should start with a really solid forecast. It's important to understand the atmosphere like it's important to understand the water into which you're diving head first.
Like pilots flying visual flight rules or VFR, chasers and spotters should be relying on visuals to get their bearings and operate around these storms. Radar helps inform decisions, giving great insight on storm mode, positioning, and track. I use it to hone in on my target from afar, and anticipate what kind of storm I'll be dealing with once I arrive. However, radar shouldn't be relied upon solely for safety decisions. Without that visual reference, a serious lack of situational awareness can occur. Chasers attempting to "fly IFR", off instruments only, can get into serious trouble because the radar doesn't show everything and is easy to misread.
That thing was only a few miles from my house and went north thankfully. I was on edge watching the radar that day!
I was on RadarScope this day. This tornado formed just a few miles east of Emporia KS. The tree damage just off the south side of I35 is still evident. I watched the entire track. It was on the ground for so long. I have people that were impacted by it so i had to never take my eyes off of it. It was a beast. I HATE HP supercells...
So did the entire cell of the el Reno monster deviate sporadically or did that massive thing move itself within a parent rotation? Or, was it just a massive cluster of strong vortices that moved in and around a massive rotation and, they would sometimes combine into what was the actual tornado? I've noticed in Leigh Orfs videos, vortices often go everywhere outside of the rotation and are sucked into the parent rotation and updraft. Maybe the stronger vortices are able to act alone for longer periods outside of the parent circulation, dancing on the edges before being sucked in.
In regards to El Reno, yes, to all, kind of. The parent supercell did turn right and vary its speed a bit before and during the tornado formation. This is pretty common supercell behavior. The multi mile wide tornadic circulation itself did exhibit some pretty exceptional motion, deviating significantly from the parent storm's motion. And this is really what got so many chasers in trouble on that storm. The behavior of the subvortices within the larger tornadic circulation was pretty chaotic, and yes at times there was a more well defined large tornadic core, and then at other times more of a group of subvortices within a broad parent circulation. That's not that uncommon on big tornadoes, which often go through a phase of "vortex breakdown". I think Orf's simulations really show this well, smaller infalling vortices are aggregated into a main tornado, but some of the strongest might manifest as a full fledged satellite tornado before they're pulled in.
@@skiptalbot I've been too close to a few without trying and it's not fun when you're off your guard. Was 1/4 mile north of the Albany, GA. EF3 and the local weather people had rotation signatures all over the embedded cell, with no clue of the actual location. Chasing storms in the SE is very rough, I've learned to dodge them by watching tornadohq hours before a squall line hits. The embedded rotations among those QLCS squall lines remain prominent across hundreds of miles sometimes. That's rough but makes it somewhat predictable when guessing how likely you are to get a warning near you 6+ hrs in advance. Those squall lines seem to cycle embedded cells that then move NE as the entire system pushes due East. Often, when looking at the past 48hr mode, you can draw a line from west to east, where most of the cells develop rotation in a somewhat predictable fashion...that way, such an advanced "warning" (if you pay attention) gives plenty of time to bail South. They are often well hidden by strong straight line winds but the Albany EF3 was more like a supercell. VERY large rotation as I could see the clouds wrapping for 20 minutes before I saw a wall of clay stained water (the tornado) to our South as it emerged from behind tall woods and into open farmland. We got lucky, because local weather had no clue how to use imagery or different models. Got stuck in what was possibly an inflow jet outside of Fitzgerald GA. One day trying to punch through a squall line and head West. The storm hadn't been warned for about 30 minutes as we headed south so we cut West and it was warned again right over us. Tried to drag our Tahoe off the road and to the South side ditch. With limbs and rain going from right to left, I knew we probably weren't in it, but I knew we weren't in a good place with winds going south in an easterly moving storm. The terrain is VERY bad for chasing. You can find a chase video of the Albany EF3 and that guy is lucky to be alive. He stayed just North of the tornado for too long with traffic clogging his escape North and only having that one road North with no East option for nearly 3 miles behind him and through the crowd of cars. Plus it was passing over an industrial company with a yard full of empty semi trailers at that point, so he's very lucky it wasn't a little stronger. How much have you studied the QLCS tornadoes? Doesn't seem like a lot of people give them the respect they deserve, or fear. Sudden EF0-EF3 tornadoes are not fun, and people seem to act like supercells are the only real danger. We have very bad outbreaks here in the SE that sometimes come out of nowhere and hurt a lot of people (yes, some due to complacency). Seems like people wouldn't shrug them off. Just seems like most experts don't see them as relevant threats compared to supercells, even when A LOT of supercells don't produce tornadoes. I'm fascinated by all of them, especially since many of them act so differently from one to the next.
This makes me want to rethink my bucket-list dream of going with a on one of these tours. 😮 hope all involved weren’t seriously injured 😨
I live in KC and I remember watching footage from a tower camera in Bonner Springs as it was pointed to the west watching this thing roll in, and I could see people milling around in an outdoor shopping center without a care in the world as an EF4 tornado was a few scant miles from their position and bearing down fast. I was dumfounded that people could be so misinformed and oblivious to a potentially life threatening situation occurring so close to them.