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When I saw Fuji on the ground after the quake I was like "Oh hell no!" I was so relieved she was still alive. She's one of the best characters in this show! Even though I've read the book, this version of the show has taken its own direction so I'm still on my toes. The BEST show this year so far.
I also adore Fuji. The actress is really great. The whole cast is just so talented, especially the Japanese actors. I see myself seeking out their prior work.
Yeah... About that earthquake. The villagers complained about the worsening stink of the hung pheasant. As Fuji would put it: people would think that a _tatari-gami_ has come to haunt the house. A _tatari-gami_ is a powerful godlike spirit in Japanese mythology. Benevolent if left alone, vengeful and vicious if provoked. They threw away the bird. Hours later an earthquake hits the place. Might not be something noteworthy to most, but it *_is_* a nice bit of writing imho.
exactly, unless you know or have at least a basic awareness about yokai/ayakashi lore, that part would fly over most people who are not japanese' head. As to whether Uejiro decided to become the patsy spy and then decided that since he is going to die anyway; or that he was made out to be the spy post-mortem as a matter of convenience, can be debated, but me personally tend to think its the latter.
@@khaii13 As Mariko put it, Uejiro taking down the bird -- which could even be a source of disease with all of the flies it's attracting -- on behalf of the village *was* an great honorable end to a "lowly" village peasant. What struck me was that Uejiro "taking the fall" as a spy posthumously in the service of Toranaga himself would've been an even greater honor than he could ever imagine. The show's subtle layered writing has to be one of the best I've seen in decades.
@@alcor4670 agreed again. His death over the bird was because Blackthorne uttered the words as a lowly privateer pilot but carried the weight of the law as the head of that house and with his rank and title as Hatamoto. So for Uejiro to willingly defy the Lord of that house for the health and safety of his Village who could not question or defy or even ask for clarification about what Blackthorne meant was a worthy “battle/sacrifice” that is more than a peasant could hope to achieve. Then post humously, and since an earthquake happened, making it more likely to “discover/uncover” (read: plant) new evidence in the house of someone who is already dead, and cannot therefore be tortured, questioned or extracted information from; is an even more worthy achievement that what he was originally killed for.
This show is just so great. For a multitude of reasons. But being smart and detailed is so nice to see. One example is the entire episode is grey and wet. So that during the earthquake a mud slide is completely logical. Even the earth they dig Toranaga out of is muddy.
The Tatarigami (Japanese: 祟り神 Tatarigami, "Curse God") is a curse that plagued Yashiori Island, Inazuma, formed from the will and power of the serpent god Orobashi who was slain over the island. When the wards suppressing it are disrupted, it causes sickness and calamities around the island. C&Paste
Toranaga is the master strategist, and that includes bring in the moment and fluidly adapting to ever changing situations. He’s steps ahead where you didn’t even know there were steps
We know that Yabushige has been playing both sides throughout the show, and Yabushige DID, on the down-low, knowingly suggest to his nephew that he should try to get Toranaga's son to do something stupid. In this episode I believe that Toranaga was playing Yabushige when he told him that his nephew would be rewarded for killing Jozen and his men. Basically, he was saying "If you had picked a side(mine) instead of playing both sides then YOU would have been rewarded instead of your nephew, so don't you think it's about time you just stopped playing both sides against each other and join mine?" It's all a big mind-F and it's one of the many things I love about this story, but that's what I gathered from that scene. And for the record, I'm not even sure that Toranaga thinks that killing Jozen was a good thing/something to be rewarded. I'd guess that he was pissed off, internally, but decided to flip the situation around externally just to screw with Yabushige and his nephew over it. This world of three hearts and eightfold fences can drive a person to madness trying to figure it all out, and that goes for most Japanese movies especially the older ones that don't bother giving the viewer ANY insight whatsoever. To the casual observer "the Japans" are just batshit crazy lunacy.
What do you think of the scene where Blackthorne puts up the stone again? What significance has it? Is that supposed to show how his actions, which killed the gardener, lie heavily on him?
Many things weigh on Anjin-sama at this moment; Ujeiro's death simply because of Anjin-sama's words, the way he treated and spoke to Fuji-sama then seeing her injured... by replacing the stone he was trying to atone for Ujeiro. Fuji-sama saw it as well; I think she finally starts to see the Anjin-sama as more than just a gaijin.
I took it as John finally embracing his title of Hatamoto and Japanese culture as a whole, it was him embracing the idea that might be there for the rest of his life.
So I get that you hang up game to let the meat age and tenderize, but that thing was COVERED in flies. Please tell me that English folk had enough sense not to just leave game out in the open to get all maggoty.
Yeah, there's no way an earthquake of that size, big enough to topple mountains, is being triggered by explosions. If anything, the randomness of it all would probably be interpreted as bad omens.
the show made a point of it being wet the entire episode. Snow and melting snow. So more of a mud slide. The shot of the valley shows it still "flowing".
Another commenter said that the spirit they said entered the house with the hanging dead pheasant was the sort that you shouldn’t provoke or there are bad consequences. So, the removal of pheasant being followed by the earthquake (e.g., “if touch, die”) is fitting in terms of specific historical Japanese omens/beliefs.
“All my war stories are full of holes.. “ pirate joke.. cause cannons put holes into ships.. and people… but they didn’t get how Anjin-sama’s humor was a chainshot in the dark. Eh? Lol😅
He also hasn’t been at “war,” just a few naval battles as the pilot. So, his war stories also have holes because he has to piece together a fake or historical story as his own war story.
so many reactors appear to underestimate the level of 4D chess Toranaga was playing. He managed to anticipate that it was either Omi or Yobushige that manipulated Nagakado into action because those were the two primary outcomes he was hoping for. How do i mean? scenario 1. He placed Yobushige and his son in command. Yobushige realizes the might of the added forces and would use it to fire upon whoever the council sends after them, thus cementing him firmly in Toranaga's side. Scenario 2. He has another spy or asset, in this case Kiku, whisper seeds of ambition into Omi so that he would seek recognition and fire the first shot. That way, if the council makes their move before he was ready, he could just have Omi commit seppuku. This option is out the window though because Omi got his son to act, instead of doing it himself. He was not mad at his son about the act, but rather about the fact that he fell into the trap of other people that his father carefully laid out for those exact people. He even takes this a step further by awarding Omi the artillery regimen, to drive a wedge between Yobushige and Omi. then Scenario 3. Nobody takes action, and whoever comes after them, in this case Jozen, reports back into the council which forces them to scramble a response before they are fully ready. in all scenarios, Toranaga comes on top; plus he gets the added bonus of teaching his thick-skulled son an important lesson. the only disadvantage is he could not now offer Omi or Yabushige's life as an excuse or delaying tactic. And after that earthquake, he surely needs more time.
The gardener was there when John said touch - die. Then torinaga's actual spy was a friend with the gardener, so they may have planned it and they may be also important charracters in the adaptation because now we know there are spies everywhere even assassins in torinaga's fief, so anything is possible. Also, i think mariko was talking about purpose, we all know the freedom that John was talking about but she may be referring to the purpose that brought him to Japan which is not really freedom. John conflates freedom with doing and saying whatever he wants but in the back of his mind needs to do the pillaging he was set out to do, but so far it's taking him and mariko to a lot of disorder and chaos - like the zen garden, all things are in order until you step on it or if there's an earthquake.
I do not understand why you would need to impeach someone who has resigned. And if they DID impeach him then they still wouldn't have five votes. Lol, this has hurt my brain for a week.
Idk how much you're caught up or if you got the answer for this, but as per my understanding the whole point of Toranaga's resignation was so that with all the bureaucracy and internal squabbling, he gets sufficient time to prepare whatever he has planned before the council can impeach him. To impeach any council member there are basically 2 rules set in stone: 1- all the 5 regents should be present and 2 - they should vote as a majority. That is why Toranaga had to flee Osaka. He could not have resigned and still be left alive had he stayed there. Now that he has resigned, they are short of 1 member on the council and need to find a new 5th member to fill in his seat which is causing dissent among the other 4. Also, impeaching him is not just from the council of regents but also from his station as the daimyo (overlord) of the Kanto region. With his power and stature in the society, Toranaga is a legitimate threat and they cannot directly remove him from power without an all out war. To avoid that, impeachment would be more efficient. Him getting impeached would mean him losing face to the utmost degree and force him to commit seppuku as per the societal norms.
@@sakshinarvekar6697 Ok now I understand. It wasn't enough that he resigned, he also needed to leave. It's all very complicated and needed more explanation in the show IMO, but at least there's people out there like you who get it. Thanks mate!😀
1 thinng i noticed in my watch and.the reactions ive watched so far is did his army just get wiped out because if so wtf he going to do now it already was a 4v1 fight and if he lost most or all his army he is basically screwed.
I don’t know what was in the book and I believe in writers, but I hope that this is not a theme like with Game of Thrones “After the night half of the Dothraki survived”
@@agentsculder2451 yea but still if there army is like 30000+ and he is like 3000 thats a big difference and they would have cannons too i suspect with the portuegese even if theyre not as accurate.
Mariko's father is based on the real figure of Akechi Mitsuhide: In real history, Oda Nobunaga (Ochiba’s father) ordered the total massacre of the massive temple of Enryaku-ji. Not only was Lord Akechi (Mariko’s father) a devout Buddhist, his mother was killed during the campaign according to legend. So 11 years later when Nobunaga gave Akechi command of an army to reinforce Hideyoshi (the Taiko) in a siege, Akechi instead used the army to ambush and force Nobunaga to seppuku while he rested in a small temple called Honno-ji. Hideyoshi eventually put down Akechi’s rebellion 13 days later.
It was just a "lucky" coincidence that the gardener died because of John not knowing that words have a different meaning in Japan. And so the spy profited to use him as a decoy and pretend that he was the spy, so that Omi stopped looking and he doesn't have to kill an innocent man.
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When I saw Fuji on the ground after the quake I was like "Oh hell no!" I was so relieved she was still alive. She's one of the best characters in this show! Even though I've read the book, this version of the show has taken its own direction so I'm still on my toes. The BEST show this year so far.
I also adore Fuji. The actress is really great. The whole cast is just so talented, especially the Japanese actors. I see myself seeking out their prior work.
there were some inaccuracies in the book because the author was not an expert in Japanese culture and history, so this show made some corrections.
Yeah... About that earthquake.
The villagers complained about the worsening stink of the hung pheasant. As Fuji would put it: people would think that a _tatari-gami_ has come to haunt the house.
A _tatari-gami_ is a powerful godlike spirit in Japanese mythology. Benevolent if left alone, vengeful and vicious if provoked.
They threw away the bird. Hours later an earthquake hits the place.
Might not be something noteworthy to most, but it *_is_* a nice bit of writing imho.
exactly, unless you know or have at least a basic awareness about yokai/ayakashi lore, that part would fly over most people who are not japanese' head.
As to whether Uejiro decided to become the patsy spy and then decided that since he is going to die anyway; or that he was made out to be the spy post-mortem as a matter of convenience, can be debated, but me personally tend to think its the latter.
@@khaii13 As Mariko put it, Uejiro taking down the bird -- which could even be a source of disease with all of the flies it's attracting -- on behalf of the village *was* an great honorable end to a "lowly" village peasant.
What struck me was that Uejiro "taking the fall" as a spy posthumously in the service of Toranaga himself would've been an even greater honor than he could ever imagine. The show's subtle layered writing has to be one of the best I've seen in decades.
@@alcor4670 agreed again. His death over the bird was because Blackthorne uttered the words as a lowly privateer pilot but carried the weight of the law as the head of that house and with his rank and title as Hatamoto. So for Uejiro to willingly defy the Lord of that house for the health and safety of his Village who could not question or defy or even ask for clarification about what Blackthorne meant was a worthy “battle/sacrifice” that is more than a peasant could hope to achieve.
Then post humously, and since an earthquake happened, making it more likely to “discover/uncover” (read: plant) new evidence in the house of someone who is already dead, and cannot therefore be tortured, questioned or extracted information from; is an even more worthy achievement that what he was originally killed for.
Blackthorne learned it the hard way that
“With great power (as a Hatamoto), comes great responsibility.”
This show is just so great. For a multitude of reasons. But being smart and detailed is so nice to see. One example is the entire episode is grey and wet. So that during the earthquake a mud slide is completely logical. Even the earth they dig Toranaga out of is muddy.
The Tatarigami (Japanese: 祟り神 Tatarigami, "Curse God") is a curse that plagued Yashiori Island, Inazuma, formed from the will and power of the serpent god Orobashi who was slain over the island. When the wards suppressing it are disrupted, it causes sickness and calamities around the island.
C&Paste
And THAT is why you don't let a pheasant rot on a rope.
😂
Toranaga is the master strategist, and that includes bring in the moment and fluidly adapting to ever changing situations. He’s steps ahead where you didn’t even know there were steps
Blackthorne: Made a dead joke
Fuji: Actually had Uejirou killed
Blackthorne: 😨
Not joke, he just didn't know how to say for no one to touch bird, so used words he knew 😂
We know that Yabushige has been playing both sides throughout the show, and Yabushige DID, on the down-low, knowingly suggest to his nephew that he should try to get Toranaga's son to do something stupid. In this episode I believe that Toranaga was playing Yabushige when he told him that his nephew would be rewarded for killing Jozen and his men. Basically, he was saying "If you had picked a side(mine) instead of playing both sides then YOU would have been rewarded instead of your nephew, so don't you think it's about time you just stopped playing both sides against each other and join mine?" It's all a big mind-F and it's one of the many things I love about this story, but that's what I gathered from that scene.
And for the record, I'm not even sure that Toranaga thinks that killing Jozen was a good thing/something to be rewarded. I'd guess that he was pissed off, internally, but decided to flip the situation around externally just to screw with Yabushige and his nephew over it. This world of three hearts and eightfold fences can drive a person to madness trying to figure it all out, and that goes for most Japanese movies especially the older ones that don't bother giving the viewer ANY insight whatsoever. To the casual observer "the Japans" are just batshit crazy lunacy.
What do you think of the scene where Blackthorne puts up the stone again? What significance has it? Is that supposed to show how his actions, which killed the gardener, lie heavily on him?
yeah he feels guilty about the gardener
Many things weigh on Anjin-sama at this moment; Ujeiro's death simply because of Anjin-sama's words, the way he treated and spoke to Fuji-sama then seeing her injured... by replacing the stone he was trying to atone for Ujeiro. Fuji-sama saw it as well; I think she finally starts to see the Anjin-sama as more than just a gaijin.
I took it as John finally embracing his title of Hatamoto and Japanese culture as a whole, it was him embracing the idea that might be there for the rest of his life.
So I get that you hang up game to let the meat age and tenderize, but that thing was COVERED in flies. Please tell me that English folk had enough sense not to just leave game out in the open to get all maggoty.
You can't undo thousands of years of culture pressing you down
✨✨✨🔅🔆🔅✨✨🌬️
Yeah, there's no way an earthquake of that size, big enough to topple mountains, is being triggered by explosions. If anything, the randomness of it all would probably be interpreted as bad omens.
the show made a point of it being wet the entire episode. Snow and melting snow. So more of a mud slide. The shot of the valley shows it still "flowing".
Another commenter said that the spirit they said entered the house with the hanging dead pheasant was the sort that you shouldn’t provoke or there are bad consequences. So, the removal of pheasant being followed by the earthquake (e.g., “if touch, die”) is fitting in terms of specific historical Japanese omens/beliefs.
Ayee
あのボンクラか！⇒あの田分けが。
“All my war stories are full of holes.. “ pirate joke.. cause cannons put holes into ships.. and people… but they didn’t get how Anjin-sama’s humor was a chainshot in the dark. Eh? Lol😅
He also hasn’t been at “war,” just a few naval battles as the pilot. So, his war stories also have holes because he has to piece together a fake or historical story as his own war story.
Hahah yeah, I find that joke so cute. I always giggle
Cercei just entered the ring
IMO, Cerci been in the ring the whole time. We just didn't know it. Hope Toranaga does.
Toranaga to Mariko + Blackthorne: "You two f****d didn't you? I can't see it in your faces"
Toranaga can see through everything 😂🤣
Toranaga knows best for his next move brilliant man!
This show is an 10/10. I'll probably re-watch this series at least 2 more times before the end of the year. 3/19/24
so many reactors appear to underestimate the level of 4D chess Toranaga was playing. He managed to anticipate that it was either Omi or Yobushige that manipulated Nagakado into action because those were the two primary outcomes he was hoping for.
How do i mean?
scenario 1. He placed Yobushige and his son in command. Yobushige realizes the might of the added forces and would use it to fire upon whoever the council sends after them, thus cementing him firmly in Toranaga's side.
Scenario 2. He has another spy or asset, in this case Kiku, whisper seeds of ambition into Omi so that he would seek recognition and fire the first shot. That way, if the council makes their move before he was ready, he could just have Omi commit seppuku. This option is out the window though because Omi got his son to act, instead of doing it himself. He was not mad at his son about the act, but rather about the fact that he fell into the trap of other people that his father carefully laid out for those exact people.
He even takes this a step further by awarding Omi the artillery regimen, to drive a wedge between Yobushige and Omi.
then Scenario 3. Nobody takes action, and whoever comes after them, in this case Jozen, reports back into the council which forces them to scramble a response before they are fully ready. in all scenarios, Toranaga comes on top; plus he gets the added bonus of teaching his thick-skulled son an important lesson. the only disadvantage is he could not now offer Omi or Yabushige's life as an excuse or delaying tactic. And after that earthquake, he surely needs more time.
The gardener was there when John said touch - die. Then torinaga's actual spy was a friend with the gardener, so they may have planned it and they may be also important charracters in the adaptation because now we know there are spies everywhere even assassins in torinaga's fief, so anything is possible. Also, i think mariko was talking about purpose, we all know the freedom that John was talking about but she may be referring to the purpose that brought him to Japan which is not really freedom. John conflates freedom with doing and saying whatever he wants but in the back of his mind needs to do the pillaging he was set out to do, but so far it's taking him and mariko to a lot of disorder and chaos - like the zen garden, all things are in order until you step on it or if there's an earthquake.
I do not understand why you would need to impeach someone who has resigned. And if they DID impeach him then they still wouldn't have five votes. Lol, this has hurt my brain for a week.
maybe you have to impeach to justify KILLING him......which is what they really want
Idk how much you're caught up or if you got the answer for this, but as per my understanding the whole point of Toranaga's resignation was so that with all the bureaucracy and internal squabbling, he gets sufficient time to prepare whatever he has planned before the council can impeach him.
To impeach any council member there are basically 2 rules set in stone: 1- all the 5 regents should be present and 2 - they should vote as a majority. That is why Toranaga had to flee Osaka. He could not have resigned and still be left alive had he stayed there. Now that he has resigned, they are short of 1 member on the council and need to find a new 5th member to fill in his seat which is causing dissent among the other 4. Also, impeaching him is not just from the council of regents but also from his station as the daimyo (overlord) of the Kanto region. With his power and stature in the society, Toranaga is a legitimate threat and they cannot directly remove him from power without an all out war. To avoid that, impeachment would be more efficient. Him getting impeached would mean him losing face to the utmost degree and force him to commit seppuku as per the societal norms.
@@sakshinarvekar6697 Ok now I understand. It wasn't enough that he resigned, he also needed to leave. It's all very complicated and needed more explanation in the show IMO, but at least there's people out there like you who get it. Thanks mate!😀
This show is amazing and it gets better episode by episode. Love your takes on the show!
What a series and story one of the best ever
1 thinng i noticed in my watch and.the reactions ive watched so far is did his army just get wiped out because if so wtf he going to do now it already was a 4v1 fight and if he lost most or all his army he is basically screwed.
I don’t know what was in the book and I believe in writers, but I hope that this is not a theme like with Game of Thrones “After the night half of the Dothraki survived”
That slide was moving slowly. It's not like the army couldn't be aware and get out of the way.
@@eodyn7 will have to wait till next week i guess for them to address it see what happens
The advantage he has is those cannon. There are 20 of them.
@@agentsculder2451 yea but still if there army is like 30000+ and he is like 3000 thats a big difference and they would have cannons too i suspect with the portuegese even if theyre not as accurate.
Mariko's father is based on the real figure of Akechi Mitsuhide: In real history, Oda Nobunaga (Ochiba’s father) ordered the total massacre of the massive temple of Enryaku-ji. Not only was Lord Akechi (Mariko’s father) a devout Buddhist, his mother was killed during the campaign according to legend. So 11 years later when Nobunaga gave Akechi command of an army to reinforce Hideyoshi (the Taiko) in a siege, Akechi instead used the army to ambush and force Nobunaga to seppuku while he rested in a small temple called Honno-ji. Hideyoshi eventually put down Akechi’s rebellion 13 days later.
Oh, you guess well for the garderner, in one of the plan you can see the see the garderner and the spie together.
such an amazing show! ♥
Gotta choose your words a bit more carefully, Anjin!
It was just a "lucky" coincidence that the gardener died because of John not knowing that words have a different meaning in Japan. And so the spy profited to use him as a decoy and pretend that he was the spy, so that Omi stopped looking and he doesn't have to kill an innocent man.