That's just him 😂 That's why I don't watch his videos all that often, I was going to give this one a chance but based on the comments, I'm going to skip it, thank you 😁
@@wackzingo ???. overpriced not value"kings" anymore = orient better, only interesting seiko watches are random limited, seiko gives a fuck about their customer higher prices lower qc. But the "fans" will find a way to cheer anyway, cause its seiko "unhateable" :D same as Casiofans. They also hating Tissot Prx Digital ignoring the fact that you get finally a solid stainless steel crispy clean DRESSY digital watch with good specs and not a student, hippie chrome plastic blingy watch for 70 dollar (which is fine) anymore. But you can buy a Casio Vintage TRN-50 for that quality...oh only 5bar and Mineral glass for 500 dollar and "limited"? come on Casio :D
"You used to be able to get this $325 brand new" Until people like you jacked the price WAYYY up by overhyping the hell out of it non stop for years. Its the same reason I can no longer buy almost any quality used car. The car community hyped every little niche car we could buy into the stratosphere
I recently got an Alpinist with a 6R35 movement and even after a trip back to SWA in New Jersey, it won't keep time worth a damn. Hamiltons are less flashy and more expensive but they do a watch's number one job; they tell you the correct time. It's a shame, too, because that Alpinist is absolutely beautiful.
I'm really glad you did this video. Until you said it I had somehow been feeling it without actually knowing it. My last two purchases were not any seiko, and I had not actually thought about it much. You are right, and I see it now. I had actually wanted a spring drive at some point, but in consideration of my last two purchases, the thought didn't cross my mind. Thank you.
I'm done with Seiko for now too. My issue is the increase in price combined with a decrease in quality. I've bought two Alpinists this year, a limited edition Rock Face, and a 1959. Both went to the Seiko service center within the first week of ownership for movement issues. The 6R35 is flat out a POS.
My 6r35 watches have been quite poor as accuracy. Some good, others very bad. Not have stopped though. My divers with the 4r movement have been much more accurate.
Seiko is a true competitor to Swiss thieves. This is a multi-billion industry 30 billion dollars is what Swiss watches make, another 30 billion is made from Apple and many other billions from small brands all over the world, I've been seeing a lot of anti-Seiko videos recently, I think this is sponsored by Swiss watch brands to kill japanese competition.
I'll never think of Seiko (including Grand) as anything other than the best and the only watchmaker that needs to exist, but I can't argue with any of your points. That said, there are still so many amazing things in their catalog, so much actual innovation continuing to happen, and so many examples of real value compared to other major brands, I'm willing to forgive/ignore the handful of overpriced and over-branded releases. And even some (I said some!) of those seemingly overpriced releases, such as the SLA and Marine Master lines, may seem overpriced "for a Seiko" but actually turn out to still be bargains compared to Swiss offerings that aren't as durable or finished to as high a standard.
Many European brands big or small are selling watches with higher prices but lower quality ( in terms of finishing and movements) than Seiko. Their (Seiko) new series really have high quality than the others so they deserve higher prices. I wish they could be sold cheaper but they still offer good value.
I agree with almost everything you've said. Seiko just makes too many watches at this point and I'm still not over the fact they turned the Skx into more of a fashion watch opposed to the the affordable icon it once was.
I expect a culling soon. It'll be the old "80% of our revenue comes from 20% of our products". At that point, they'll discontinue the poor performers. I expect the same will be true of Long Island Watch.
I've had both the SKX and one of the new S5X's - honestly the reaction from the community about this watch in particular is completely overblown. If all of us were divers who actually needed screw-down crowns and 200m water resistance, then yes I would be annoyed with the changes made from SKX to S5X. However most of us are certainly NOT divers, and I'd venture to guess that most of us aren't doing any rigorous activity in water outside of swimming in shallow water or chilling at the pool (if even that). The watch is literally better in every other way, so I think it's quite a stretch to say that Seiko turned it into a 'fashion watch' - because they didn't. They turned it into more of an everyday watch that is still more than capable of handling anything 99.99% of us would throw at it. That's also why I disagree with this video as well (though usually I find myself on the same page as T3) - the fact that you can buy the S5X for at or below $200 shows that Seiko is still producing decent watches for an affordable price. Yes, not all the references that became cult classics will forever be manufactured at the same price, but that's the way it is.
@@captainkaiii I respect your opinion but better in every way is a stretch. Its nice to see color and hacking but thats not what we all bought an skx for in first place. Great business decision but the watch lost its iconic status imo. At this point mark form long island watch makes a better product. The GMT looks ok but they also added the same function to other divers like the Sumo. My favorite watch is sarb017 and they turn that into a money grab also. Way too many limited editions and overpriced. For now Im good with my 5 seikos now its on to Tudor/Rolex
Seiko went too far with their dials and completely forgot about their customer needs. Affordable price point used to be a key selling point for Seiko once upon a time.
My spending limit for Seikos is not a penny over $500. QC issue, crummy bracelets and time keeping inconsistencies at the rate Seikos near/at/over 1000 dollars experience are not acceptable anymore, especially with how many good micro brand options there are nowadays. I love my SARB035, but aside from that, nope, I don’t spend my time loving brands that don’t love me back as a consumer.
Absolutely right Jory, I came to the same conclusion a bit earlier, the last two Seiko's I got were the first Arny re issue and the happy feet monster.( both of which were still reasonable priced). but indeed I think Seiko distanced themself to much from the blue collar enthusiast collector who were a big part of Seiko's clientele, ( I started with the saw tooth and the SKX like most of us). But what really hurts is all of a sudden all of they're watches went 1000 bucks and up ( even some they sold for something like 350 bucks before) and do nothing about bad bezel alignment and second hands not hitting the markers on the seconds dail with the quarts stuff.
You have to look at the upside with this trend of Seiko trying to push uphill on price, and what I think is a really cynical way to treat the watch community (but they are aiming at the high street window shopper who just sees a pretty little bauble), it is making room for reasonably priced, creative and appealing microbrand value space. One guy who consistently demonstrates understanding this space and invading it with an almost rampage-like approach is Marc at Longisland Watch - he is making a killing where Seiko has simply left money on the table on the value end. I say good on him and good on the microbrand community. So Jory, you almost sound depressed about Seiko, but the flip side of this is well worth celebrating.
I think Citizen, Bulova, Timex and orient are happy to fill in the gap seiko is leaving. I’ve seen some impressive watches at affordable prices and on the used market they will only be more affordable over time.
I'm not so sure about Timex. They should be the cheapest of the bunch, but they often aren't. I paid more for my hand-wind expedition north than I did for my Seiko SNK, and the Timex is using a Chinese movement. Their Waterbury Classic that looks very similar to Bulova's Clipper, and I think uses the same movement, costs 20-30% more than the Clipper. Don't get me wrong, I still love Timex watches and own several, but I don't think their name, brand history, or the watches themselves can justify them charging the way they do against the Japanese brands.
@@mjbrady83 I totally here you on the quality and prices of Timex mechanical watches. I think they will end up being quite a bit cheaper on the used market in the next few years. But regardless. I think Timex quartz with indiglo are great movements and if you can get one with an all stainless steel case, it’s totally worth it. And they tend to be much cheaper than mechanical.
It’s a shame that I’m getting into watches too late to have enjoyed some better value from Seiko. I’m looking for to grabbing at least one Orient watch in the near future. Trying to decide between the Defender or Triton, but maybe both…and still looking forward to more on the M3 on the other channel. Stay safe, blessed and have fun 👍
My last two Seiko's were the new GMT 5 and a basic dress 5. Both horribly inaccurate and had to finally send the GMT back to Seiko to get it sorted out. It's now 5 weeks with no completion date. No more mechanical Seikos for me, they have lost their QC in my opinion.
I 100% agree. Spring drive is the leap to ultra permium. Its like Sekio is trying to push sekio brand to luxury brand... but quality from what I hear has either stayed the same or got worse.... :(
I can’t share the enthusiasm with G-Shocks. I’ve owned one for years and love that one…and that’s the only G-Shock I’ll ever need. Analogs on the other hand…I could never stop buying.
I totally agree, I have the last gen Alpinist & The Espresso Cocktail Time and now saving up for a Grand Seiko because that’s where the value is in my opinion in Seiko world 🌎
I think you're right about Orient at the "people's" price point - they're killing it. My wife bought me a defender 2 (based largely on your review) which is now my daily driver, and my kids bought me a mako 2 for my birthday. Both outstanding mechanically and beautiful. I still love my 7s26-0028, but I agree that Seiko seem to be moving away from that entry price point. Maybe they're making room for Lorus and Pulsar to avoid cannibalising their own market share.
I bought a bunch of cheap watches to figure out which STYLE i liked best. Cheap Casio Duro, Cheap Timex. Cheap Orients, Etc... Now i know i like GMT watches and Telemeter watches. Now I'm buying expensive watches in styles i know i like.
The SNK 809 is pushing $200 now, and the SNZG 015J is over $250 in some cases. Just the other day, there was a still new, SKX 007j going for just under $1,000. The once entry-level stuff, is really starting to slide out of reach.
I got a used skx for $180 2 months ago(on a nato)…pegging a price to the most ridiculous eBay seller who has original old stock has nothing to do with Seiko
12:30 - - Fanboy? What does that make me, then? I still own every Seiko given to me (Birthday, Christmas or Anniversary) between 1973 - 2011. All have been maintained and are still functioning properly.
Yeah, I go back to the SARB033. It was a very big seller; 1. It was JDM and was very well made. 2. The price was right. I paid around $375.00, which included shipping from Japan. 3. The quality of its build was so high that it made you look forward to the next Seiko product. Not so much now. I've seen complaints never before associated with the Seiko brand, not to mention high prices.
Even the Orient watches are getting more expensive now. I was gonna buy an orient kamasu as my first automatic watch, but I just looked at Amazon and now its $150 more than it was last month! Not sure if its still worth it or not, can't find any seikos that can compare or be a good alternative to the kamasu
I think the new generation of Kamasu’s were released quite recently and they’re upgraded. They are around $300. We’re you looking at the new generation? If not then holy mackerel! I bet that must be sellers of the older generation are looking to trick people into thinking it the newer, or just trying to ride the coattails.
I was about to throw down when you mentioned the rising prices of discontinued Seiko models (that’s normal) but afterwards when you talked about how Seiko is starting to give us less value for money, especially how they’re rebranding popular models with ones that are either similar and low-specced (Seiko 5’s) or more expensive and riding the wave of previous iterations (Prospex) - you hit the nail on the head. Forgive the previous run-on sentence, but yeah - you made some great points. It’s sad to see what Seiko is doing these days.
I switched to Orient. Just bought the RK-AY0002S. I also have the RA-AC0K03L with a yellow strap. I am very happy with both of them. The SPB209j1 I have is beautiful but could be more a bit accurate for what I paid.
Totally agree with your comments on Seiko…I just bought a Certina ds active diver and its an amazing watch for the price! I got the 43mm and it is large, but soooo much value for under 1k.
Plus in addition the 1960s style Seiko presage watches you can find for way under $400. And they are absolutely beautiful. So again if Seiko wants to move upmarket because they want their brand status to grow that's their prerogative but they're also still very much involved in the affordable segment
Argh. Purchased the SARB069 blue enamel dial at Seiko Boutique in Miami. House was broken into and it was stolen 😢. The gold detail on the seconds hand moon counterweight…and those white leaf hands. Ugga, beautiful.
♻ still searching for 4R57, more precisely parts for this movement, the 31 star for the day hand is very fragile, and i already have 2 movements bought with this part broken : where to find it ? ♻
I don't really see the problem, they are trying to move up now, especially with the Presage line. Some of the more expensive ones are very nice, but also getting into Tissot & Longines territory. Whether they are gaining in entry level Swiss price point who knows. The Seiko 5's are still an inexpensive entry level watch and are on par with Citizen, Orient etc in terms of price. Fair enough you don't like them, but lots of people do. For me, the only issue I have is that they are moving in to the price range of some of the Swiss brands, but they don't look as good. I like the Tissot Gentleman more than a Presage Sharp Edge series for example.
They are moving up and thats alright but what I keep hearing is the quality has stayed the same or got worse. Citizen is creating better quality for the same price point at Sekio. Personally I like that they are also moving up, but quality should match price point. Sekio is known for value. Hopefully it still remains best values for buck as sekio moves up closer to luxury... but right now I hear quality is just not there or not catching up..
Depends. The Sharp Edge Series are more unique looking watches. Tissot Gentleman looks very bland/safe. The case polishing looks nicer on the Seiko as well and the dial is more textured. That's what you are paying for.
I live in the UK so my apologies if this isn't representative of elsewhere. There are still bargains to be had with Seikos either oline by waiting, or if you can't wait, talk to the ADs direct about discounts. Being ADs they have to abide by certain rules especially when it come to the luxury brands and can't advertise any discounts when not authorised to do so. You are probably better off with the small, more independent jewelers where decisions can be made quickly. I've just bought a 43mm safari edition automatic tuna for £370 normally £520. A friend taught me to do this when he got a huge discount on a cartier.
I don't know, this comes across as an old man complaint... "Things cost more than they used to!" It's inflation, all the costs are going up, and you're getting less for it. Seiko still has a lot of awesome models for very little money. Also, how many of these microbrands can exist and offer what they're offering for the price specifically because of Seiko and their NH movements? I looked into that SORY082, and there were TONS of people selling them for the same price as Marc from LIW. Some of those places still have it in stock, or the similar SORY132 at the same price point. I didn't see anyone listing it at $700, the highest was around $550. Speaking of prices, I know Seiko broke a lot of hearts by discontinuing the SKX line, and I'm sure that's where a lot of your argument comes from. The ISO dive features from those watches now all go in the Prospex line and it costs more. I can understand Seiko's move here, it was a smart business decision. Obviously there was far more value in those watches than what Seiko charged for them. I see SKXs now going for $500+, and people are still snapping them up. Seiko could have charged that kind of money up front and people would have paid it. But you can get the Prospex watches those ISO dive features moved to for less money than that, and they're arguably giving you even more than an SKX. Yeah, I can understand some of the frustration, but I'm not sure I can understand the sentiment of not buying Seiko anymore.
Yep, food, fuel and shelter costs have dramatically increased worldwide over the last 3 years and continue to increase....but I want my seikos at the same prices as five years ago😂
Dude, prices have gone up on everything. This is what you're upset about? Really? Wanna talk to my local grocer for me? You could always buy a TAG...lol
I get your point, and mostly agree but before you walk away, take a look at the SRPJ33. If you’re patient, you can find them for just under $400. If it were “Swiss made”, I imagine it would be $1000 all day everyday. I love the hell out of mine ❤
Yeah, I agree completely! I went into the hobby deep in 2019, just about the time when the SKX was still available and the Turtle was starting to pop on Creationwatches for like 280$. I remember seeing the SARB017 and SARB033 for around 300 and thinking "I can`t afford it now but, maybe in a couple of years" - and we all know how that went... Alpinist 700$, Turtles for 550-600$... I still plan to get one(the Turtle I mean), but I am almost 100% sure that I will never spend 700 on an Alpinist.. I prefere to save up just a little more and the the Capitan Willard... and honesty these 2 are the only Seiko watches that I want / plan to get. These days if one is interested in having fun on an affordable side of things, the only proper options are Orient, Casio, Timex and probably Citizen. And I am a bit disappointed, the new pricing is justified by the history and the quality for the products - no argument there, but it`s like loosing a friend... strange feeling... I ramble too much! Great video man! Thanks!
I own the SARB 033, 035, 017, SKX013, SNK809 (along with other sport Seiko’s)and my last Seiko purchase was a SARG009. I don’t see buying anymore since the new ones I like are in the $1,000-$1,500 starting range and I’d really have to be impressed to add to this collection. I also have Hamilton, Christopher Ward, Tudor and Rolex but when it comes to the new Seikos I just don’t see the value for dollar upgrade from my present collection.
I only recently got into mechanical watches and the first one I bought is a Seiko SRPG39K1, really nice vintage inspired field watch from the new Seiko 5 series with a really nice blue dial, love it looks wise, but terrible experience with it, it´s supposed to be a field watch, a watch supposed to handle some roughness, I work in an office all day, I don´t hike or camp or do "extreme" activities, and after using it for five months, it stopped working in the middle of the day, the store the sold it to me gave me a six month warranty, so I took it to them, their watchmaker fixed it, and a week later it broke again, I´m gonna go pick it up tomorrow again, hopefully it works now, but yeah Seiko now has terrible quality control, because I bought a Seiko SNK623K1 from right before the new Seiko 5s came out, and I banged it by accident and nothign happened. So nice watches, brand equity, but their quality control is in the toilet.
I sold all my Seiko's years ago. I'm about to purchase this Citizen. Citizen Eco-Drive Promaster Land Altichron Men's Black Dial Watch BN4044-15E. Was considering this Seiko but not for $1K. Prospex Automatic Black Dial Stainless Steel Men's Watch. Most of my favorite watches in my collection are the Timex's, older Time, Temp, Compass and chrono's GMT's with upto 4 complications per watch. A very busy dial, but functional. I do have several Luminox's as well that are in my collection.
What about the Seiko Presage Fubuki Sakura for 225€? Is it worth? I´m kinda trying to decide on either the Seiko Presage Fubuki Sakura SRPC03J1 for that price or a new old stock of the Seiko Presage Honeycomb SSA409J1 for 620€. Thoughts?
So I’ve only been really into watches for like 5 years so I realize I’m a novice. But I disagree with all the seiko hate. First I know everyone loves the SKX, but the 7S movement was lacking and the 4R35/36 is an objectively better movement. There’s a ton of different dials and color ways and most 5KX can be had for around 200-300. And the new alpinist and baby alpinist are still grade watches at the price point. For mid $600s you get a great watch with the same design as the original SARB with a 70hr power reserve and a 6R movement. That’s a great deal to me. Also the majority of the microbrand use the NH movement shared with the 5KX!
I literally just received a ssa459 minutes before watching this video and wanted to know your reasoning because I have zero complaints, but you never really shared any concern other than "the price went up" and that's even true of buying anything now. When a friend at work showed me a Rolex in 2002 he spent what I would have considered a reasonable amount to spend in 2024 but in 2024 the price is now 5x more than then. Welcome to the world of inflation. From my point of view I got a watch I love the look of for a price that didn't seem significantly overpriced compared to my old - and significantly less formal $250 citizen from 2002 (c650).
I bought myself two Seiko 5s , pre-Covid, absolute stunners, for 80 euros each. Today I saw they now cost 200. OK, the lure of the Seiko 5 is now gone. It had a basic but reliable automatic mechanism and looks that could rival the most expensive watches for beauty. "Poor man's Rolex?" Sure but you did not feel poor wearing them you felt proud and classy. Been wearing one of them ever since, the one with the grey sunburst dial, the other one with a champagne-like sunburst grey sitting in my drawer, was a really really tough choice. Too bad they killed them like they did, too bad. But I have mine and seems to me like I will do whatever to keep it running for as long as it can.
I’m a more recent Seiko collector, so I don’t get the issue. Bought a Presage Cocktail Time, a Presage GMT, and a Willard over the past year. Got a great deal, there are no QC issues, and I love all three. I guess they have gotten more expensive, but I wouldn’t pay retail prices for any watch, including Seiko. Things change, but they're still great watches.
Quality control issues with the movement and bezel with my last 2 Seiko watches. The last watch, a Seiko SPB1453 had a bezel that was way off so I sent it back and got a replacement which was as bad. I contacted the shop again and they said they had 4 of the watches and all the bezels were off. Not acceptable for £800 or nearly $1000. I’m done with Seiko and hope other customers seek much better value alternatives.
For me it's all a no go since a lot of leather is mislabeled cat and dog skin from China. 😕 Plus my Seiko flightmaster sna411 was such a piece of crap. The pushers got permanently stuck which is a very common issue. and usability was crap even before that. Have you tried the G Shock GBD 200? It's soooooo comfy (the strap is softer than other Gs) and loaded with features too. I mean it's not the same style as a Seiko - I'm just saying I reckon you'd like it.
What's disappointing too is they're charging more, sometimes 50-100% more for comparable watches then to now, but they aren't 50-100% better watches. Sometimes like the 5kx-es they are worse. Their straps/bracelets are still an afterthought. They could and should do better if they're going to charge a premium. If they made the 5kx-es true spec dive watches with a NH36 or better movement and a solid endlink, quality bracelet for $400-500 we would buy them. Microbrands seem to pull it off. But Seiko is focused on the mass market.
@@drbobsnightmare2521 These MM300s are no joke. People have no idea. Grand Seiko movement. Hand built and hand finished by grand Seiko. People love to hate on Seiko. They’re killing it in my opinion.
@@myklbllngsly when it came in the mail I thought they sent me the wrong watch for a couple minutes. So many qualities don't come across on video. It didn't say Grand Seiko but for a moment I thought they sent one by mistake.
I think Seiko made some good moves. For one... $800 is the new $400 (inflation). Also, because the huge number of Seiko watches offered, it was difficult for the casual watch buyer to determine the difference in quality between models unless they are a watch aficionado and/or did a bunch of research. Most people are buying online (site unseen), so there unable to compare side by side. Now, it's easy for the average consumer to shop by style, quality, features, and price-point.
Totally agree, luckily for me I started collecting just before they turned and managed to get 3-OG models at their base prices. They ain’t what they used to be !
Your gripes are spot on. They've raised prices even on the earlier Seiko 5 releases like the Urchin. I passed by my AD yesterday and he showed me a lot of Alba automatics, all affordable, below $100. So far, these have all been released in Asia.
I own three Seikos, an SNK, a save the ocean gws, and the 2020 Willard reissue. The former two I bought before the price hike. The ladder was bought after the price hike. And I can say right now the only way I'm buying another Seiko is if spring drive gets cheaper or if the word grand comes for Seiko. The reason is very simple the movement. I don't know what they put in the Presage but the 6R movements they put in the prospex the 6R35 in particular are terrible. My particular example runs about plus 30 a day. But I've seen time graph example on forums of a few the run anywhere between minus 24 to plus 30 in a day depending on how the watch sits. Now I know some people will say oh that's in spec. But let me tell you why Seiko should be embarrassed. My GWS was 500 bucks new (half the price of my Willard) came with the 4r35 movement and ran at plus 5 a day. My SNK809 which I got for 100 bucks new (those days are long gone) came with 7s26 movement and ran at plus 2 a day. So for those playing the home game that's two watches for 600 bucks and the both ran within cosc specs. And Seiko doesn’t regulate their movement. Seikos predicted movement specs used to be a joke in the watch community because it was pretty much a guarantee it would run will with in their posted specs. But now not only did they raise their prices their movements aren't even worth it anymore.
I got the Presage with the brown dial, date wheel, and power reserve indicator. One design flaw - the date wheel very small gold numbers against the brown background makes them unreadable, even in good light. I was surprised a big flaw like that got all the way through to production. Too bad because it's an otherwise nice watch.
The sloped enamel detail on the SPB069 looks like a rockies error and cheapens the watch for me. Appears like the holes have been pressed down and out from the face?
i was fortunate to have picked up the sarb065 "OG cocktail time", the sarb017 "alpinist" and a second generation marine master scdx017 before they were discontinued.........all without the prospex X or presage on the dial
I'm thinking of getting a new watch and I'm torn between 2, Seiko Presage SRPB46J1 and Tissot PRX automatic with black dial and leather strap. I already have a Seiko 5 with bracelet and need another but with leather strap. Just can't decide which one 😭
Leather strap on a PRX is a mistake. The PRX’s integrated bracelet is an integral part of its original concept and contributes half of its aesthetic appeal. I own a 40mm quartz PRX. Quartz because of its accuracy, thinness, lighter weight, and no need for a movement replacement a few years down the road. And it costs half the price of an automatic. It also won’t stop running if I neglect it for a few days.
When brands consolidate, it's no surprise that they resegment their offerings to change the perception of the brands they own. Whatever affordability Seiko had is moved to Orient, and tries to compete with the likes of Tissot and Mido instead. If anything, if you still want to enjoy the Seiko offerings, 2nd hand is where it's at. Enjoying my 5Hz Lord Marvel piece at around 300 bucks, and it's a living wonder where there is 5Hz watches in the 1970s, and that came from Seiko.
It’s time for them to step it up. All of the Swiss market along with the German market is going up in price. It only makes sense for Japan’s favorite brand to do so as well. Unfortunate About all but reality.
I'm not sure what you're talkin about. Just look at the Seiko Monster Happy Feet dial that want you can get for under $400. Look at the new US Special Edition released Turtles, the orange cracked shell in the blue cracked shell watches you can find those for sub $600, 500 bucks. So I don't know what you are talkin about that and interesting seiko has to be over $1,000. You can get a cocktail time for under $400. So again not really sure what you're on about here bud
@@endy_fx ya they are beautiful. Still pushing closer to 42mm. I love my mako 2 USA. Prob wear it the most but wish it was the same size as my spb143. Love that size.
How could you not mention the new SKX-line? I also believe that Citizen and Orient are slowly taking Seiko's old place, but in terms of price to quality they are still unbeatable.
Prices went up, sure...there is yearly inflation of about 9%. Past 10 years with an average of 6% and it is even raising. So prices will just go up. I have checked the price of the Prospex Turtle which is including the VAT at the price of 350€ (with some digging even 10% cheaper), which seems a fair price. My first Alpinist was at the price of 250€ in 2007, that is 15 years ago. I bought the new version last year for the price of 580€ which was regarding the inflation 30% cheaper than the first one, so it was a good deal. The current price of Alpinist is 740€ which is still a bit cheaper than then in the year 2007.
I'm just curious, but wasnt it Seiko that started the fine art of watchmaking, so why would they put swiss made on their products, if they're products are better or as good as?
I'm a huge vintage Seiko fan (late 60s/early70s King Seikos in particular), and I have to agree that the direction that Seiko have taken recently is unfortunate. It's not that they are aiming at a higher price point - I'm all for that, given the legacy they have of extremely high quality watches in the vintage sphere (lesser known than their entry-level, "watch of the people" tier). It's that this higher price point no longer represents high quality and good value. The recent King Seiko re-release based on the 6R movement is a case in point. It's a nicely finished watch but with entry-level horology inside that just doesn't warrant the price tag or the KS name. Same with the 6R Alpinist - in the past, the Alpinist used the high-end 4S movement, a rival for Rolex's movements or any other mid-high quality Swiss movement. It seems now that it's all style and no substance, whereas in the past it was almost exactly the opposite. It really pains me to see historic labels such as King Seiko and Alpinist being devalued in this way.
It's obvious that seiko want to move more up market, however years of youtube channels stateing how seiko is comparable to Swiss at 2-3 times the price doesn't help.
My last Seiko was the Seiko 5 GMT and will likely be my last Seiko. Like you said Jory there are a lot of micro brands producing better watches at affordable prices. I hope Seiko gets back to its roots someday!
You can still pick up some true Seiko icons for under / around $1,000 if you shop around - Turtles, SARBS, even a 62MAS - they’re out there if you look hard enough
Seiko is a large company with multiple watch making divisions. What Seiko is doing like all brand oriented companies is moving the Seiko brand up market and charging more, as well as, increasing its profits. At the same time, Seiko is using its Orient division to fill the gap at the lower price part of the spectrum. Jordy will eventually understand what Seiko is doing and fall back in love with Seiko.
Jordy does understand what Seiko is doing, and it stinks. Charging more for the same quality is wrong, and is not moving the brand upmarket, it is moving the brand downmarket. Watch enthusiasts like Jordy know this, and are rightly appalled, and are rightly walking away from a bad deal. It is the newbies and the kids coming up who know no difference who will be buying watches like this. Seiko should be improving the quality and finishing of their watches when they increase their price. That is upmarketing. Oh no, they can't do that, we live in a disposable mass market world!
@@silver5986 I agree that Seiko should improve its quality. The entire Japanese manufacturing culture is based on continuous improvement in quality. If Seiko slacks off then consumers will go elsewhere, just like the American car buying public did in the 1970’s.
They are moving up and thats alright but what I keep hearing is the quality has stayed the same or got worse. Citizen is creating better quality for the same price point at Sekio. Personally I like that they are also moving up, but quality should match price point. Sekio is known for value. Hopefully it still remains best values for buck as sekio moves up closer to luxury... but right now I hear quality is just not there or not catching up..
You asked fir the cheaper range, special watches, then look at the King Turtle SRPE05K1 … an absolute stunner all the way through … I not understand you did not habe that on the radar, same with the manta rays … not sure if you are on top of the game (?)
You hit the current Seiko market on the head. I've been modding my favorite Seiko dials and handsets, cases etc., because the market makes it more logical. Your watch is hand built with your choices and aha an aligned chapter ring and bezel to boot.
I know what you mean, Jory. However, I do own an SBDC143 which is the grey Willard and it is a fantastic watch! Not cheap though. I wish I'd gotten into watches when Seikos were more affordably priced. i got a 4th gen Monster for $389AUD a couple of years ago and that felt really good because it was a low price for great specs. However, I had to upgrade the crystal to sapphire to be rid of the candy bar cyclops. So it ended up not being $389AUD. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I kinda agree. There are some really frustrating watches and hard to understand pricing going on at Seiko, but then they come out with a watch like the SPB333J1 and wow. I wish they would retire the 6r movement and give us something better.
I continue to love Seiko, but I kind of have gone completely the other way. Instead of buying a new Seiko at £1,000 price-point, I'm instead seeking out really nice and interesting semi-vintage models, and paying the equivalent to have them professionally restored at a watchmakers. Just picked up a beautiful 1976 Bell Matic, and 1975 Actus SS. Both have been professionally serviced and are like new for slightly under the price of a Prospex line watch, are FAR more interesting and arguably will end up more collectable...
Although I started collecting in the late 90s, I never got into Seiko, never owned an SKX, and always gravitated towards what would become micro brands. For me, I’d take an EC Anderson, a Boldr, a Nodus or a Raven any day of the week over a Seiko. Take the Nodus Sector Deep for example - a 500 m WR diver with a great brushed steel bracelet for $575. I wouldn’t even consider a Seiko over that.
![Can It Really Be That Good? Seiko Cocktail Time Review [ SRPB41J1 ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLgxBu_P2bo/mqdefault.jpg)
I kept waiting for you to land the plane. There is no point to this video
You've got the words out of my mouth 😅
My first time watching him and this was the most pointless video....he talked for 15 minutes and said nothing.
That's just him 😂 That's why I don't watch his videos all that often, I was going to give this one a chance but based on the comments, I'm going to skip it, thank you 😁
@@wackzingo ???. overpriced not value"kings" anymore = orient better, only interesting seiko watches are random limited, seiko gives a fuck about their customer higher prices lower qc. But the "fans" will find a way to cheer anyway, cause its seiko "unhateable" :D same as Casiofans. They also hating Tissot Prx Digital ignoring the fact that you get finally a solid stainless steel crispy clean DRESSY digital watch with good specs and not a student, hippie chrome plastic blingy watch for 70 dollar (which is fine) anymore. But you can buy a Casio Vintage TRN-50 for that quality...oh only 5bar and Mineral glass for 500 dollar and "limited"? come on Casio :D
Most of his takes are bad lol. I watch his videos to do the exact opposite. Thank me later
"You used to be able to get this $325 brand new"
Until people like you jacked the price WAYYY up by overhyping the hell out of it non stop for years.
Its the same reason I can no longer buy almost any quality used car. The car community hyped every little niche car we could buy into the stratosphere
That darned first amendment!
I recently got an Alpinist with a 6R35 movement and even after a trip back to SWA in New Jersey, it won't keep time worth a damn. Hamiltons are less flashy and more expensive but they do a watch's number one job; they tell you the correct time. It's a shame, too, because that Alpinist is absolutely beautiful.
They keep raising prices without adding sapphire or anything to show for it. 500+ watch= bezel and hour markers should line up
SARB033 was Seiko’s value proposition high-water-mark
I wish I had gotten one before they discontinued it.
I'm really glad you did this video. Until you said it I had somehow been feeling it without actually knowing it. My last two purchases were not any seiko, and I had not actually thought about it much. You are right, and I see it now. I had actually wanted a spring drive at some point, but in consideration of my last two purchases, the thought didn't cross my mind. Thank you.
I'm done with Seiko for now too. My issue is the increase in price combined with a decrease in quality. I've bought two Alpinists this year, a limited edition Rock Face, and a 1959. Both went to the Seiko service center within the first week of ownership for movement issues. The 6R35 is flat out a POS.
My 6R made it less than a year and I still have not had it fixed, frustrating because it seems that it was a lubrication issue.
@@michaelbradley6488
Thanks for mentioning it. Will let mine eventually get serviced as a preventative measure
Same with my alpinist, always way ahead in minutes. Can it be calibrated?
@@alexsalvador3370 Yes, you can have a watchmaker service your watch and get it regulated for timing. My 6R simply stopped working at all....
My 6r35 watches have been quite poor as accuracy. Some good, others very bad. Not have stopped though. My divers with the 4r movement have been much more accurate.
Seiko is a true competitor to Swiss thieves. This is a multi-billion industry 30 billion dollars is what Swiss watches make, another 30 billion is made from Apple and many other billions from small brands all over the world, I've been seeing a lot of anti-Seiko videos recently, I think this is sponsored by Swiss watch brands to kill japanese competition.
I'll never think of Seiko (including Grand) as anything other than the best and the only watchmaker that needs to exist, but I can't argue with any of your points. That said, there are still so many amazing things in their catalog, so much actual innovation continuing to happen, and so many examples of real value compared to other major brands, I'm willing to forgive/ignore the handful of overpriced and over-branded releases. And even some (I said some!) of those seemingly overpriced releases, such as the SLA and Marine Master lines, may seem overpriced "for a Seiko" but actually turn out to still be bargains compared to Swiss offerings that aren't as durable or finished to as high a standard.
Many European brands big or small are selling watches with higher prices but lower quality ( in terms of finishing and movements) than Seiko. Their (Seiko) new series really have high quality than the others so they deserve higher prices. I wish they could be sold cheaper but they still offer good value.
For example?
I agree with almost everything you've said. Seiko just makes too many watches at this point and I'm still not over the fact they turned the Skx into more of a fashion watch opposed to the the affordable icon it once was.
I expect a culling soon. It'll be the old "80% of our revenue comes from 20% of our products". At that point, they'll discontinue the poor performers. I expect the same will be true of Long Island Watch.
I've had both the SKX and one of the new S5X's - honestly the reaction from the community about this watch in particular is completely overblown. If all of us were divers who actually needed screw-down crowns and 200m water resistance, then yes I would be annoyed with the changes made from SKX to S5X. However most of us are certainly NOT divers, and I'd venture to guess that most of us aren't doing any rigorous activity in water outside of swimming in shallow water or chilling at the pool (if even that). The watch is literally better in every other way, so I think it's quite a stretch to say that Seiko turned it into a 'fashion watch' - because they didn't. They turned it into more of an everyday watch that is still more than capable of handling anything 99.99% of us would throw at it. That's also why I disagree with this video as well (though usually I find myself on the same page as T3) - the fact that you can buy the S5X for at or below $200 shows that Seiko is still producing decent watches for an affordable price. Yes, not all the references that became cult classics will forever be manufactured at the same price, but that's the way it is.
@@captainkaiii I respect your opinion but better in every way is a stretch. Its nice to see color and hacking but thats not what we all bought an skx for in first place. Great business decision but the watch lost its iconic status imo. At this point mark form long island watch makes a better product. The GMT looks ok but they also added the same function to other divers like the Sumo. My favorite watch is sarb017 and they turn that into a money grab also. Way too many limited editions and overpriced. For now Im good with my 5 seikos now its on to Tudor/Rolex
@@captainkaiii I am a diver and I can assure you that I do not need a dive watch at all when diving.
Rolex makes 1 million watches per year and nobody cares but when Seiko puts out dozens of new models it’s an issue?
Seiko went too far with their dials and completely forgot about their customer needs. Affordable price point used to be a key selling point for Seiko once upon a time.
My spending limit for Seikos is not a penny over $500. QC issue, crummy bracelets and time keeping inconsistencies at the rate Seikos near/at/over 1000 dollars experience are not acceptable anymore, especially with how many good micro brand options there are nowadays. I love my SARB035, but aside from that, nope, I don’t spend my time loving brands that don’t love me back as a consumer.
Absolutely right Jory, I came to the same conclusion a bit earlier, the last two Seiko's I got were the first Arny re issue and the happy feet monster.( both of which were still reasonable priced). but indeed I think Seiko distanced themself to much from the blue collar enthusiast collector who were a big part of Seiko's clientele, ( I started with the saw tooth and the SKX like most of us). But what really hurts is all of a sudden all of they're watches went 1000 bucks and up ( even some they sold for something like 350 bucks before) and do nothing about bad bezel alignment and second hands not hitting the markers on the seconds dail with the quarts stuff.
I had those same issues with a Tudor I put on my wrist, lol.
I had bought a mechanical Tissot a few months ago and it has QC issues. Does that make each and every watch of Tissot crappy?
You have to look at the upside with this trend of Seiko trying to push uphill on price, and what I think is a really cynical way to treat the watch community (but they are aiming at the high street window shopper who just sees a pretty little bauble), it is making room for reasonably priced, creative and appealing microbrand value space. One guy who consistently demonstrates understanding this space and invading it with an almost rampage-like approach is Marc at Longisland Watch - he is making a killing where Seiko has simply left money on the table on the value end. I say good on him and good on the microbrand community. So Jory, you almost sound depressed about Seiko, but the flip side of this is well worth celebrating.
Exactly right! Why buy a Seiko when you can buy a similar watch from a Micro Brand that makes them better and cheaper! It's a no brainer!
I think Citizen, Bulova, Timex and orient are happy to fill in the gap seiko is leaving. I’ve seen some impressive watches at affordable prices and on the used market they will only be more affordable over time.
I'm not so sure about Timex. They should be the cheapest of the bunch, but they often aren't. I paid more for my hand-wind expedition north than I did for my Seiko SNK, and the Timex is using a Chinese movement. Their Waterbury Classic that looks very similar to Bulova's Clipper, and I think uses the same movement, costs 20-30% more than the Clipper. Don't get me wrong, I still love Timex watches and own several, but I don't think their name, brand history, or the watches themselves can justify them charging the way they do against the Japanese brands.
@@mjbrady83 I totally here you on the quality and prices of Timex mechanical watches. I think they will end up being quite a bit cheaper on the used market in the next few years. But regardless. I think Timex quartz with indiglo are great movements and if you can get one with an all stainless steel case, it’s totally worth it. And they tend to be much cheaper than mechanical.
Do a little searching and you can find some very good micro brands in the $500 and sub $2K area.
I also own several Citizen and Bulova watches and love them. Great value for the price.
It’s a shame that I’m getting into watches too late to have enjoyed some better value from Seiko. I’m looking for to grabbing at least one Orient watch in the near future. Trying to decide between the Defender or Triton, but maybe both…and still looking forward to more on the M3 on the other channel. Stay safe, blessed and have fun 👍
Yeah, you were using "Impetus" in the correct context. It means a driving force, and/or some sort of the prime mover for later events.
My last two Seiko's were the new GMT 5 and a basic dress 5. Both horribly inaccurate and had to finally send the GMT back to Seiko to get it sorted out. It's now 5 weeks with no completion date. No more mechanical Seikos for me, they have lost their QC in my opinion.
I think a spring drive in a non Grand Seiko really devalues yhe Grand Seiko brand. What's the difference between a Seiko lx and a Grand Seiko?
I 100% agree. Spring drive is the leap to ultra permium. Its like Sekio is trying to push sekio brand to luxury brand... but quality from what I hear has either stayed the same or got worse.... :(
I have been saying this about Seiko for years now. They used to be value kings, g-shock is going the same direction.
I can’t share the enthusiasm with G-Shocks. I’ve owned one for years and love that one…and that’s the only G-Shock I’ll ever need. Analogs on the other hand…I could never stop buying.
Loving my silver GM2100. Crazy value right there.
I noticed it myself especially when considering them discontinuing the skx and replacing it with more expensive options.
I totally agree, I have the last gen Alpinist & The Espresso Cocktail Time and now saving up for a Grand Seiko because that’s where the value is in my opinion in Seiko world 🌎
I think you're right about Orient at the "people's" price point - they're killing it. My wife bought me a defender 2 (based largely on your review) which is now my daily driver, and my kids bought me a mako 2 for my birthday. Both outstanding mechanically and beautiful. I still love my 7s26-0028, but I agree that Seiko seem to be moving away from that entry price point. Maybe they're making room for Lorus and Pulsar to avoid cannibalising their own market share.
I do keep looking at Seikos and then buying Orient, the savings are just too big to ignore.
I bought a bunch of cheap watches to figure out which STYLE i liked best.
Cheap Casio Duro, Cheap Timex. Cheap Orients, Etc...
Now i know i like GMT watches and Telemeter watches.
Now I'm buying expensive watches in styles i know i like.
The SNK 809 is pushing $200 now, and the SNZG 015J is over $250 in some cases. Just the other day, there was a still new, SKX 007j going for just under $1,000. The once entry-level stuff, is really starting to slide out of reach.
The SKX is not Seiko's fault though. That's a collectible that's ballooned in value.
True, but only after they dis-continued it. There's always the Citizen ProMaster EcoDrive for the cheapest ISO diver now.
I got a used skx for $180 2 months ago(on a nato)…pegging a price to the most ridiculous eBay seller who has original old stock has nothing to do with Seiko
12:30 - - Fanboy?
What does that make me, then? I still own every Seiko given to me (Birthday, Christmas or Anniversary) between 1973 - 2011. All have been maintained and are still functioning properly.
Yeah, I go back to the SARB033. It was a very big seller; 1. It was JDM and was very well made. 2. The price was right. I paid around $375.00, which included shipping from Japan. 3. The quality of its build was so high that it made you look forward to the next Seiko product. Not so much now. I've seen complaints never before associated with the Seiko brand, not to mention high prices.
Even the Orient watches are getting more expensive now. I was gonna buy an orient kamasu as my first automatic watch, but I just looked at Amazon and now its $150 more than it was last month! Not sure if its still worth it or not, can't find any seikos that can compare or be a good alternative to the kamasu
I think the new generation of Kamasu’s were released quite recently and they’re upgraded. They are around $300. We’re you looking at the new generation? If not then holy mackerel! I bet that must be sellers of the older generation are looking to trick people into thinking it the newer, or just trying to ride the coattails.
@@gyrfalcon7332 i didn't realize there was a gen 2 kamasu. Just did some research into the differences and this one on Amazon is a gen 1 not a gen2
I was about to throw down when you mentioned the rising prices of discontinued Seiko models (that’s normal) but afterwards when you talked about how Seiko is starting to give us less value for money, especially how they’re rebranding popular models with ones that are either similar and low-specced (Seiko 5’s) or more expensive and riding the wave of previous iterations (Prospex) - you hit the nail on the head. Forgive the previous run-on sentence, but yeah - you made some great points. It’s sad to see what Seiko is doing these days.
I switched to Orient. Just bought the RK-AY0002S. I also have the RA-AC0K03L with a yellow strap. I am very happy with both of them. The SPB209j1 I have is beautiful but could be more a bit accurate for what I paid.
Totally agree with your comments on Seiko…I just bought a Certina ds active diver and its an amazing watch for the price! I got the 43mm and it is large, but soooo much value for under 1k.
Plus in addition the 1960s style Seiko presage watches you can find for way under $400. And they are absolutely beautiful. So again if Seiko wants to move upmarket because they want their brand status to grow that's their prerogative but they're also still very much involved in the affordable segment
Argh. Purchased the SARB069 blue enamel dial at Seiko Boutique in Miami. House was broken into and it was stolen 😢. The gold detail on the seconds hand moon counterweight…and those white leaf hands. Ugga, beautiful.
The worst atrocity for me was the 5KX. I was not able to recover from that. I bought used legit SKX and restored them instead.
Most good dress shirts have two buttons at the cuff.
♻ still searching for 4R57, more precisely parts for this movement, the 31 star for the day hand is very fragile, and i already have 2 movements bought with this part broken : where to find it ? ♻
I don't really see the problem, they are trying to move up now, especially with the Presage line. Some of the more expensive ones are very nice, but also getting into Tissot & Longines territory. Whether they are gaining in entry level Swiss price point who knows. The Seiko 5's are still an inexpensive entry level watch and are on par with Citizen, Orient etc in terms of price. Fair enough you don't like them, but lots of people do. For me, the only issue I have is that they are moving in to the price range of some of the Swiss brands, but they don't look as good. I like the Tissot Gentleman more than a Presage Sharp Edge series for example.
They are moving up and thats alright but what I keep hearing is the quality has stayed the same or got worse. Citizen is creating better quality for the same price point at Sekio.
Personally I like that they are also moving up, but quality should match price point. Sekio is known for value.
Hopefully it still remains best values for buck as sekio moves up closer to luxury... but right now I hear quality is just not there or not catching up..
Depends. The Sharp Edge Series are more unique looking watches. Tissot Gentleman looks very bland/safe. The case polishing looks nicer on the Seiko as well and the dial is more textured. That's what you are paying for.
I live in the UK so my apologies if this isn't representative of elsewhere. There are still bargains to be had with Seikos either oline by waiting, or if you can't wait, talk to the ADs direct about discounts. Being ADs they have to abide by certain rules especially when it come to the luxury brands and can't advertise any discounts when not authorised to do so. You are probably better off with the small, more independent jewelers where decisions can be made quickly. I've just bought a 43mm safari edition automatic tuna for £370 normally £520. A friend taught me to do this when he got a huge discount on a cartier.
great explanation. I would love to pay more for a Seiko but they should first FIX THOSE QUALITY ISSUES.
I don't know, this comes across as an old man complaint... "Things cost more than they used to!" It's inflation, all the costs are going up, and you're getting less for it. Seiko still has a lot of awesome models for very little money. Also, how many of these microbrands can exist and offer what they're offering for the price specifically because of Seiko and their NH movements? I looked into that SORY082, and there were TONS of people selling them for the same price as Marc from LIW. Some of those places still have it in stock, or the similar SORY132 at the same price point. I didn't see anyone listing it at $700, the highest was around $550. Speaking of prices, I know Seiko broke a lot of hearts by discontinuing the SKX line, and I'm sure that's where a lot of your argument comes from. The ISO dive features from those watches now all go in the Prospex line and it costs more. I can understand Seiko's move here, it was a smart business decision. Obviously there was far more value in those watches than what Seiko charged for them. I see SKXs now going for $500+, and people are still snapping them up. Seiko could have charged that kind of money up front and people would have paid it. But you can get the Prospex watches those ISO dive features moved to for less money than that, and they're arguably giving you even more than an SKX. Yeah, I can understand some of the frustration, but I'm not sure I can understand the sentiment of not buying Seiko anymore.
Yep, food, fuel and shelter costs have dramatically increased worldwide over the last 3 years and continue to increase....but I want my seikos at the same prices as five years ago😂
Micro brand also don't have the same design language. I've never seen one that tops Seiko's aesthetic at the same price point.
Dude, prices have gone up on everything. This is what you're upset about? Really? Wanna talk to my local grocer for me? You could always buy a TAG...lol
Lol. You’re unintelligent. Funny:)
Yeah the cost of living crises is kind of a big issue, nice to have 1st world problems worrying about the price of watches though 😂
I get your point, and mostly agree but before you walk away, take a look at the SRPJ33. If you’re patient, you can find them for just under $400. If it were “Swiss made”, I imagine it would be $1000 all day everyday. I love the hell out of mine ❤
Yeah, I agree completely!
I went into the hobby deep in 2019, just about the time when the SKX was still available and the Turtle was starting to pop on Creationwatches for like 280$.
I remember seeing the SARB017 and SARB033 for around 300 and thinking "I can`t afford it now but, maybe in a couple of years" - and we all know how that went... Alpinist 700$, Turtles for 550-600$... I still plan to get one(the Turtle I mean), but I am almost 100% sure that I will never spend 700 on an Alpinist.. I prefere to save up just a little more and the the Capitan Willard... and honesty these 2 are the only Seiko watches that I want / plan to get.
These days if one is interested in having fun on an affordable side of things, the only proper options are Orient, Casio, Timex and probably Citizen.
And I am a bit disappointed, the new pricing is justified by the history and the quality for the products - no argument there, but it`s like loosing a friend... strange feeling... I ramble too much!
Great video man!
Thanks!
I own the SARB 033, 035, 017, SKX013, SNK809 (along with other sport Seiko’s)and my last Seiko purchase was a SARG009. I don’t see buying anymore since the new ones I like are in the $1,000-$1,500 starting range and I’d really have to be impressed to add to this collection. I also have Hamilton, Christopher Ward, Tudor and Rolex but when it comes to the new Seikos I just don’t see the value for dollar upgrade from my present collection.
I am sorry but I did not understand what you complain about in this video. Pricing? Design changes? Too many models?
I have my OG SKX007J and my latest purchase, a Sumo SPB103J1, I'll probably pick up a Sarb or a Sarx at some stage on the secondary market
I only recently got into mechanical watches and the first one I bought is a Seiko SRPG39K1, really nice vintage inspired field watch from the new Seiko 5 series with a really nice blue dial, love it looks wise, but terrible experience with it, it´s supposed to be a field watch, a watch supposed to handle some roughness, I work in an office all day, I don´t hike or camp or do "extreme" activities, and after using it for five months, it stopped working in the middle of the day, the store the sold it to me gave me a six month warranty, so I took it to them, their watchmaker fixed it, and a week later it broke again, I´m gonna go pick it up tomorrow again, hopefully it works now, but yeah Seiko now has terrible quality control, because I bought a Seiko SNK623K1 from right before the new Seiko 5s came out, and I banged it by accident and nothign happened. So nice watches, brand equity, but their quality control is in the toilet.
I sold all my Seiko's years ago. I'm about to purchase this Citizen. Citizen Eco-Drive Promaster Land Altichron Men's Black Dial Watch BN4044-15E. Was considering this Seiko but not for $1K. Prospex Automatic Black Dial Stainless Steel Men's Watch. Most of my favorite watches in my collection are the Timex's, older Time, Temp, Compass and chrono's GMT's with upto 4 complications per watch. A very busy dial, but functional. I do have several Luminox's as well that are in my collection.
What about the Seiko Presage Fubuki Sakura for 225€? Is it worth?
I´m kinda trying to decide on either the Seiko Presage Fubuki Sakura SRPC03J1 for that price or a new old stock of the Seiko Presage Honeycomb SSA409J1 for 620€.
Thoughts?
So I’ve only been really into watches for like 5 years so I realize I’m a novice. But I disagree with all the seiko hate. First I know everyone loves the SKX, but the 7S movement was lacking and the 4R35/36 is an objectively better movement. There’s a ton of different dials and color ways and most 5KX can be had for around 200-300. And the new alpinist and baby alpinist are still grade watches at the price point. For mid $600s you get a great watch with the same design as the original SARB with a 70hr power reserve and a 6R movement. That’s a great deal to me. Also the majority of the microbrand use the NH movement shared with the 5KX!
Question I’m thinking of buying a sarb065 pre owned for 350 or a new srpb43 for 420 which do you think would be better to buy?
What are your thoughts on the Marathon brand?
Tool watch style somewhat close to the Tuna or SKX style.
I literally just received a ssa459 minutes before watching this video and wanted to know your reasoning because I have zero complaints, but you never really shared any concern other than "the price went up" and that's even true of buying anything now. When a friend at work showed me a Rolex in 2002 he spent what I would have considered a reasonable amount to spend in 2024 but in 2024 the price is now 5x more than then. Welcome to the world of inflation. From my point of view I got a watch I love the look of for a price that didn't seem significantly overpriced compared to my old - and significantly less formal $250 citizen from 2002 (c650).
I bought myself two Seiko 5s , pre-Covid, absolute stunners, for 80 euros each.
Today I saw they now cost 200.
OK, the lure of the Seiko 5 is now gone.
It had a basic but reliable automatic mechanism and looks that could rival the most expensive watches for beauty.
"Poor man's Rolex?"
Sure but you did not feel poor wearing them you felt proud and classy.
Been wearing one of them ever since, the one with the grey sunburst dial, the other one with a champagne-like sunburst grey sitting in my drawer, was a really really tough choice.
Too bad they killed them like they did, too bad.
But I have mine and seems to me like I will do whatever to keep it running for as long as it can.
I’m a more recent Seiko collector, so I don’t get the issue. Bought a Presage Cocktail Time, a Presage GMT, and a Willard over the past year. Got a great deal, there are no QC issues, and I love all three. I guess they have gotten more expensive, but I wouldn’t pay retail prices for any watch, including Seiko. Things change, but they're still great watches.
Quality control issues with the movement and bezel with my last 2 Seiko watches. The last watch, a Seiko SPB1453 had a bezel that was way off so I sent it back and got a replacement which was as bad. I contacted the shop again and they said they had 4 of the watches and all the bezels were off. Not acceptable for £800 or nearly $1000. I’m done with Seiko and hope other customers seek much better value alternatives.
For me it's all a no go since a lot of leather is mislabeled cat and dog skin from China. 😕
Plus my Seiko flightmaster sna411 was such a piece of crap. The pushers got permanently stuck which is a very common issue. and usability was crap even before that.
Have you tried the G Shock GBD 200? It's soooooo comfy (the strap is softer than other Gs) and loaded with features too. I mean it's not the same style as a Seiko - I'm just saying I reckon you'd like it.
What's disappointing too is they're charging more, sometimes 50-100% more for comparable watches then to now, but they aren't 50-100% better watches. Sometimes like the 5kx-es they are worse. Their straps/bracelets are still an afterthought. They could and should do better if they're going to charge a premium. If they made the 5kx-es true spec dive watches with a NH36 or better movement and a solid endlink, quality bracelet for $400-500 we would buy them. Microbrands seem to pull it off. But Seiko is focused on the mass market.
Wearing my SLA053 MM300 right now.
This watch is incredible. Seiko make incredible watches.
sbdx023/sla021 it the best. +1 sec a day.
One watch to rule them all.
@@drbobsnightmare2521
These MM300s are no joke. People have no idea. Grand Seiko movement. Hand built and hand finished by grand Seiko.
People love to hate on Seiko. They’re killing it in my opinion.
@@myklbllngsly when it came in the mail I thought they sent me the wrong watch for a couple minutes. So many qualities don't come across on video. It didn't say Grand Seiko but for a moment I thought they sent one by mistake.
I think Seiko made some good moves. For one... $800 is the new $400 (inflation). Also, because the huge number of Seiko watches offered, it was difficult for the casual watch buyer to determine the difference in quality between models unless they are a watch aficionado and/or did a bunch of research. Most people are buying online (site unseen), so there unable to compare side by side. Now, it's easy for the average consumer to shop by style, quality, features, and price-point.
Totally agree, luckily for me I started collecting just before they turned and managed to get 3-OG models at their base prices. They ain’t what they used to be !
Your gripes are spot on. They've raised prices even on the earlier Seiko 5 releases like the Urchin. I passed by my AD yesterday and he showed me a lot of Alba automatics, all affordable, below $100. So far, these have all been released in Asia.
Agreed. New to the game and am looking into Islander watches for my Seiko fix. I also just picked up an Orient Kamasu, beautiful diver.
or Citizen, the QC always top-notch, I have 3 Citizens from different gens and they work like it manufactured from the same year
I own three Seikos, an SNK, a save the ocean gws, and the 2020 Willard reissue. The former two I bought before the price hike. The ladder was bought after the price hike. And I can say right now the only way I'm buying another Seiko is if spring drive gets cheaper or if the word grand comes for Seiko. The reason is very simple the movement. I don't know what they put in the Presage but the 6R movements they put in the prospex the 6R35 in particular are terrible. My particular example runs about plus 30 a day. But I've seen time graph example on forums of a few the run anywhere between minus 24 to plus 30 in a day depending on how the watch sits.
Now I know some people will say oh that's in spec. But let me tell you why Seiko should be embarrassed. My GWS was 500 bucks new (half the price of my Willard) came with the 4r35 movement and ran at plus 5 a day. My SNK809 which I got for 100 bucks new (those days are long gone) came with 7s26 movement and ran at plus 2 a day.
So for those playing the home game that's two watches for 600 bucks and the both ran within cosc specs. And Seiko doesn’t regulate their movement. Seikos predicted movement specs used to be a joke in the watch community because it was pretty much a guarantee it would run will with in their posted specs. But now not only did they raise their prices their movements aren't even worth it anymore.
at least yours is 30 secs a day, mine is 14 mins a hour on first date I've bought (repaired now)
I got the Presage with the brown dial, date wheel, and power reserve indicator. One design flaw - the date wheel very small gold numbers against the brown background makes them unreadable, even in good light. I was surprised a big flaw like that got all the way through to production. Too bad because it's an otherwise nice watch.
The sloped enamel detail on the SPB069 looks like a rockies error and cheapens the watch for me. Appears like the holes have been pressed down and out from the face?
I want to buy Seiko SRPD51K1SAMAY .
Can someone please tell if it's good enough to buy ?
i was fortunate to have picked up the sarb065 "OG cocktail time", the sarb017 "alpinist" and a second generation marine master scdx017 before they were discontinued.........all without the prospex X or presage on the dial
And extending your thinking. Most brands have just done that. Slapping up prices. No more Seiko, no, no more watches.
I'm thinking of getting a new watch and I'm torn between 2, Seiko Presage SRPB46J1 and Tissot PRX automatic with black dial and leather strap. I already have a Seiko 5 with bracelet and need another but with leather strap. Just can't decide which one 😭
Leather strap on a PRX is a mistake. The PRX’s integrated bracelet is an integral part of its original concept and contributes half of its aesthetic appeal. I own a 40mm quartz PRX. Quartz because of its accuracy, thinness, lighter weight, and no need for a movement replacement a few years down the road. And it costs half the price of an automatic. It also won’t stop running if I neglect it for a few days.
I still love my Seiko Samurai - Save the Ocean. The dial is one of the most beautiful dials ever.
When brands consolidate, it's no surprise that they resegment their offerings to change the perception of the brands they own. Whatever affordability Seiko had is moved to Orient, and tries to compete with the likes of Tissot and Mido instead. If anything, if you still want to enjoy the Seiko offerings, 2nd hand is where it's at. Enjoying my 5Hz Lord Marvel piece at around 300 bucks, and it's a living wonder where there is 5Hz watches in the 1970s, and that came from Seiko.
It’s time for them to step it up. All of the Swiss market along with the German market is going up in price. It only makes sense for Japan’s favorite brand to do so as well. Unfortunate About all but reality.
I'm not sure what you're talkin about. Just look at the Seiko Monster Happy Feet dial that want you can get for under $400. Look at the new US Special Edition released Turtles, the orange cracked shell in the blue cracked shell watches you can find those for sub $600, 500 bucks. So I don't know what you are talkin about that and interesting seiko has to be over $1,000. You can get a cocktail time for under $400. So again not really sure what you're on about here bud
I think if orient starts hitting out some great divers in the 39-40 size they will really gain a bigger following.
The Mako 2 is outstanding at 41mm. It's a great watch for the price.
@@endy_fx ya they are beautiful. Still pushing closer to 42mm. I love my mako 2 USA. Prob wear it the most but wish it was the same size as my spb143. Love that size.
I agree and also fear the same is starting to happen with Citizen
How could you not mention the new SKX-line? I also believe that Citizen and Orient are slowly taking Seiko's old place, but in terms of price to quality they are still unbeatable.
Prices went up, sure...there is yearly inflation of about 9%. Past 10 years with an average of 6% and it is even raising. So prices will just go up. I have checked the price of the Prospex Turtle which is including the VAT at the price of 350€ (with some digging even 10% cheaper), which seems a fair price. My first Alpinist was at the price of 250€ in 2007, that is 15 years ago. I bought the new version last year for the price of 580€ which was regarding the inflation 30% cheaper than the first one, so it was a good deal. The current price of Alpinist is 740€ which is still a bit cheaper than then in the year 2007.
I'm just curious, but wasnt it Seiko that started the fine art of watchmaking, so why would they put swiss made on their products, if they're products are better or as good as?
I'm a huge vintage Seiko fan (late 60s/early70s King Seikos in particular), and I have to agree that the direction that Seiko have taken recently is unfortunate. It's not that they are aiming at a higher price point - I'm all for that, given the legacy they have of extremely high quality watches in the vintage sphere (lesser known than their entry-level, "watch of the people" tier). It's that this higher price point no longer represents high quality and good value. The recent King Seiko re-release based on the 6R movement is a case in point. It's a nicely finished watch but with entry-level horology inside that just doesn't warrant the price tag or the KS name. Same with the 6R Alpinist - in the past, the Alpinist used the high-end 4S movement, a rival for Rolex's movements or any other mid-high quality Swiss movement. It seems now that it's all style and no substance, whereas in the past it was almost exactly the opposite. It really pains me to see historic labels such as King Seiko and Alpinist being devalued in this way.
It's obvious that seiko want to move more up market, however years of youtube channels stateing how seiko is comparable to Swiss at 2-3 times the price doesn't help.
No Jory, Seiko is the best.
My last Seiko was the Seiko 5 GMT and will likely be my last Seiko. Like you said Jory there are a lot of micro brands producing better watches at affordable prices. I hope Seiko gets back to its roots someday!
100% SEveral microbands to choose from nowadays that easily competes w/ Seiko
You can still pick up some true Seiko icons for under / around $1,000 if you shop around - Turtles, SARBS, even a 62MAS - they’re out there if you look hard enough
You can sometimes get a good discount on Seiko watches at any jewelry store. I got all my Presages at about 30% off.
Seiko is a large company with multiple watch making divisions. What Seiko is doing like all brand oriented companies is moving the Seiko brand up market and charging more, as well as, increasing its profits. At the same time, Seiko is using its Orient division to fill the gap at the lower price part of the spectrum. Jordy will eventually understand what Seiko is doing and fall back in love with Seiko.
Jordy does understand what Seiko is doing, and it stinks. Charging more for the same quality is wrong, and is not moving the brand upmarket, it is moving the brand downmarket. Watch enthusiasts like Jordy know this, and are rightly appalled, and are rightly walking away from a bad deal. It is the newbies and the kids coming up who know no difference who will be buying watches like this. Seiko should be improving the quality and finishing of their watches when they increase their price. That is upmarketing. Oh no, they can't do that, we live in a disposable mass market world!
@@silver5986 I agree that Seiko should improve its quality. The entire Japanese manufacturing culture is based on continuous improvement in quality. If Seiko slacks off then consumers will go elsewhere, just like the American car buying public did in the 1970’s.
I’ve been kind of bottom dwelling on the Seiko fives and Orient. I’m kind of like thinking Citizen.
I can’t seem to find alpinists (compass ones) in the market right now. I hope they don’t discontinue them.😢
They are moving up and thats alright but what I keep hearing is the quality has stayed the same or got worse. Citizen is creating better quality for the same price point at Sekio.
Personally I like that they are also moving up, but quality should match price point. Sekio is known for value.
Hopefully it still remains best values for buck as sekio moves up closer to luxury... but right now I hear quality is just not there or not catching up..
Looked at SNR035. My god, price tag was 5500usd 🤪
You asked fir the cheaper range, special watches, then look at the King Turtle SRPE05K1 … an absolute stunner all the way through … I not understand you did not habe that on the radar, same with the manta rays … not sure if you are on top of the game (?)
You hit the current Seiko market on the head. I've been modding my favorite Seiko dials and handsets, cases etc., because the market makes it more logical. Your watch is hand built with your choices and aha an aligned chapter ring and bezel to boot.
I know what you mean, Jory. However, I do own an SBDC143 which is the grey Willard and it is a fantastic watch! Not cheap though. I wish I'd gotten into watches when Seikos were more affordably priced. i got a 4th gen Monster for $389AUD a couple of years ago and that felt really good because it was a low price for great specs. However, I had to upgrade the crystal to sapphire to be rid of the candy bar cyclops. So it ended up not being $389AUD. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
So replacing the 6139 I bought in 1972 isn't a good idea then.
I kinda agree. There are some really frustrating watches and hard to understand pricing going on at Seiko, but then they come out with a watch like the SPB333J1 and wow. I wish they would retire the 6r movement and give us something better.
I continue to love Seiko, but I kind of have gone completely the other way. Instead of buying a new Seiko at £1,000 price-point, I'm instead seeking out really nice and interesting semi-vintage models, and paying the equivalent to have them professionally restored at a watchmakers.
Just picked up a beautiful 1976 Bell Matic, and 1975 Actus SS. Both have been professionally serviced and are like new for slightly under the price of a Prospex line watch, are FAR more interesting and arguably will end up more collectable...
Tell us more about the King Seiko SPB365 Please.
Although I started collecting in the late 90s, I never got into Seiko, never owned an SKX, and always gravitated towards what would become micro brands. For me, I’d take an EC Anderson, a Boldr, a Nodus or a Raven any day of the week over a Seiko. Take the Nodus Sector Deep for example - a 500 m WR diver with a great brushed steel bracelet for $575. I wouldn’t even consider a Seiko over that.