Shuang Shou Jian 双手剑 - Historical Manual Stances of Wu Bei Zhi
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
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This is a unique set of techniques for the Chinese longsword, or shuang shou jian (双手剑), literally "two-handed sword," found within the scrolls of Wu Bei Zhi, aka "Military Preparation Manual," written and compiled by Mao Yuan-Yi in late Ming, which is said to be the largest treatise of military-related affairs in Chinese history.
There really hasn't been much on record regarding the Chinese two-handed double-edged sword since more ancient periods such as Han, Tang or Song Dynasties.
There are a few surviving traditions here and there, such as those found in some schools that teach Shifu Yu Cheng Hui two-handed sword form, but not many.
More common, though still not super common, are traditions of two-handed sabers, i.e. miao dao. Another form of Chinese longsword.
To a good degree, a healthy majority of these concepts can cross-apply between the two weapons, and even the staff. With slight, obvious adaptations kept in mind, i.e., if drilling these techniques with a miao dao, flip the edge upwards to replicate false edge cuts, etc.
Are there known acnient Chinese military manauls on single handed Jian?
I would assume there are.
Most single-hand jian and dao we see today comes to us as a living tradition, and has therefore undergone the changes that come with modernity (i.e. performance, self-improvement, etc instead of combat).
As for questions about historical manuals and other works which would lay out a more traditional framework for swordplay in jian fa or dao fa, I'd refer you to Scott Rodell. That is his specialty. What he trains is a living tradition albeit combat-focused, but he still can give you a wealth of information in this area. You can find him right here on RUclips by the channel name "Great River Taoist Center."
That was nice. Don't suppose you have anyone to spar against? It'd be nice to see how these could be applied into a real fight.
Haven't had anyone to spar with in a good long while, but the application principles are pretty simple and direct.
Will definitely elaborate on this stuff in time to come. 🙏
Nice Demonstration I am also learning about ShuangShouJian
Have you had a chance to further interpret and elaborate on these techniques? What is your thinking when you interpret a given technique, and have there been any particular surprises?
I've been busily interpreting the style myself, and I'm finding that I'm interpreting it in a particularly powerful and aggressive manner. My eye is to treating the parts of each figure as a technical diagram, and the text in as literal a manner as I can understand it. I've generally found in my interpretation that the techniques are not in order (1 doesn't necessarily flow into 2, etc), that most of the figures are 'mid-points' or 'start points' of the interpretation, and that after comprehending all 24 they form a system of options from any given position, plus a few starting positions. I do not have a wushu or kung fu background, so I'm approaching this with a relatively fresh slate, though heavily influenced by HEMA and two tidbits of trivia on Chinese martial arts (on waist power and two-hander footwork).
Awesome! There are certainly parallels with Longsword techniques in this treatise.
I admit I haven't put all too much time into delving deeper into this particular system, though I do still intend to.
The two blades I study most are the single-handed jian and two-handed dao (miao dao).
Shuang shou jian is, at least in Chinese context, a bit more niche.
Since the dao essentially took the place of the double-edged sword on the battlefield, the jian has become primarily civilian, and high society at that. Hence swords were ceremonial, represented status, and also self-defense oriented. This over time took away much of the practicality of having jian be long and two-handed. I think this is a good part of the reason these arts have long run their course. Hence why the author of this treatise had to get 16 of them out of Korean single-edged saber manuals (also indicated by the fact so few of these moves utilize the false edge), and his mentioning of not being slow in sharing this art. It was already ancient *then*. If that's any indicator.
Nevertheless, this is still a neat tradition and it's rarity is part of it's appeal. These are not like the more nimble, intricate sword techniques of say, Taiji sword. They are definitely more straightforward and aggressive, in my eyes. I can't think of anything offhand that came as a particular surprise to me, but I do find these techniques quite grounded and no-nonsense.
With or without Chinese martial arts in your background, just by the fact you have a HEMA foundation will help immensely. This isn't taught in any systems like the long saber is (adapted by Piguazhang, Tongbei, Xing Yi etc). So because of that it makes a good isolated thing to study.
Glad you're learning it as well and good luck in your interpretation! 😁
@@WhiteApeMA I've found a number of direct parallels with European Longsword techniques - schielhau, zwerhau, krumphau all directly have analogues in the left wing strike, turning strike, and spreading wings strike, at least as I've interpreted them; just under different contexts. The scheitelhau *might* be equivalent to the phoenix head deflection (if one starts in the 'white snake plays with the wind' as opposed to moves to), but I could also be interpreting the phoenix head deflection incorrectly, and again they're used under two very different contexts. I'm currently operating under my own translation and interpretation of the manual.
On those two systems, do you know of any good manuals for single-handed jian and miaodao? I'm curious about them as well, but in the case of the first I can't make heads or tails of the majority of translated manuals out there (and I can't make them work in sparring so far!). My group currently practices utilizing the LK Chen sparring two-handed han jian and the LK Chen sparring one-handed han jian, but we've had much greater success figuring out the two-handed stuff than the one-handed stuff. Though the Han jian is far removed from most extant jian styles, I'd still like to try and start with learning a Chinese style before giving up and either bastardizing the two-handed style into a one-handed style, or giving up and learning European saber in 5 minutes (if the memes about that are remotely accurate, of course :p).
Ma Mingda's linguistic analysis of the Chaoxian Shifa, according to the folks at Terra Prime Sword Lab, indicated that the words of the manual bear a strong resemblance to Song to Yuan era literature. Whilst Dao already took the place of the Jian as early as the Eastern Han dynasty; as late as the Tang dynasty, it was claimed that there were jian in use by some soldiers, probably elites or otherwise not as standard issue. The early dao of the Han and Tang eras were also fairly close to the jian they replaced. Given this, I find this manual to be extremely fascinating - as you say, it was already extremely ancient by the time it was rewritten in the late Ming; and it's possibly a window into Chinese swordsmanship as far back as the Song dynasty, or possibly earlier!
But therein lies a contradiction with a different point you made - that 16 of the techniques came from Korean single-edged saber manuals. TPLA's translation of the pretext instead indicated that whilst Mao Yuan-Yi attributed it to Korea, later Korean authors denied its Korean origin. Do you know which of the techniques are related to Korean saber techniques, and which Korean manual they came from? The main point of comparison I have is with Just a Bug's Jedok Geom, where I generally found that they were wildly different from each other, so it couldn't be Jedok Geom. If a direct link to contemporary Korean manuals or techniques can be established, then it contradicts the pre-Song hypothesis, and helps to narrow down when exactly this sword form came from.
The straightforward, aggressive moves, in contrast to the nimble and intricate techniques of Taiji or Wudang (which I admittedly cannot figure out so far!) makes me think that either Chinese people were significantly more straightforward and aggressive in the pre-Yuan times (which fits; the Han and Tang were both expansionist military powerhouses with a well-oiled military apparatus that involved the participation of a significant proportion of the population, and the Song had no lack of heroes - only a lack of a helpful government, in contrast to the Ming dynasty's attempts to divorce military affairs from the common people via a military caste system); or that this is a military art. Even so, despite its straightforwardness and apparent resemblances to European longsword traditions, I found myself accidentally recreating the kung fu bow stance for the footwork of most techniques, and powering everything explosively utilizing waist power. The different Chinese foot stance and use of core muscles also managed to completely explain the leopard head stance - one starts like so if one wants to power a largely downwards cut utilizing the waist, as opposed to falling or abs contraction!
If it helps/adds verification in addition to your opening comment regarding your approach and perspective to how the techniques are not in order: Wing Chun's forms are often mistaken as a set of sequences to apply in a fight that flow from beginning to end. Even more so, people do not realize that the 3rd form (Biu Jee) and the Wooden Dummy forms are actually training recovery for when you screw up in a fight or find yourself in an emergency situation and need to regain control.
In reality, the forms are better approached as a set of separate methods of opportunity or recovery, grouped together simply for an efficient training exercise. Some parts might be slightly sequenced as a short combo, but the majority of such combos and flows are trained through partner drills (and should be tested in sparring drills within the school, then should be further pressure-tested in sparring with outside styles).
Similarly, your interpretation of the manual is very plausible - as techniques that do not need to flow into the next part and instead, are sections for different situations/scenarios of opportunity or recovery... That is, if the opportunity/opening is present and you're able to take it, then perform as follows... Or if you're caught off guard, then try recover as follows.
@@SilenMonser That does make sense; and the few times I've seen Kung fu sequences broken down and explained lend credence to this. Miao Dao's 4 routes were explained by the channel WuTan as being a set of different moves which serve different training purposes, for example. Your info helps by giving me a datapoint indicating that I'm roughly heading in the right direction here :D
most of the longer jian forms I've seen have been Ba Gua forms
Yeah Bagua does tend to use larger swords for their forms.
The sword,
where did you purchase it ?
Longquan sword