@@mattlander9119 I was on a heavier pull job, 100 tonne loaded steel wagon, locked up solid on a cant, on a gradient on a curve, used a class 66 , put it in slow speed control. This loads the power on gradual no snatching, sanding as well. It did work but it took a lot of effort to move the wagon 120 yards to skate it. Cowboys in that job .
@@robertrich663 It is a 2 stroke but they don't normally smoke that bad (admitted it is doing some work) Deltics tend to chuck out blue smoke (burning oil?), I believe there is an oil collection drum in the exhaust system (can somebody say yay or nay?) 2 stroke diesels put out more NOx (oxides of nitrogen) than 4 strokes that is why you cannot have any new locos. Class 69 is a different case as it is an updated loco and the latter version of the V12-710 is loads cleaner than the Ruston V16 it replaces
Back in BR days the recovery team would have used Kelbus gear, pulleys and steel ropes, using two or more locos as anchors and a couple to pull, they hauled a 37 on its side up a steep slope at Marine Colliery in South Wales in the 1970s using Kelbus gear
Did the job properly in BR days ,been told they used Kelbus gear to right ship capsized in Immingham Graving dock (dry dock) used 3 steam locos as anchors so would easy extracted these units
Exactly! I could hardly believe what I was seeing. At its simplest there was enough of some carriages outside the portal to allow a steam crane and 8F (in former times) to at least lift the nearest end before attempting to drag it out. Just pulling it, with all that friction and interlocking of debris and the stretching cable is amateurish, to say the least. Of course, the Kelbus Gear is the norm.
@@johnjephcote7636 - Back in my day as a driver, I would have probably been sacked for causing flats on the wheels, let alone the track damage or eff'in up the loco in many other ways.
Supervisor should be sacked for letting the workmen stand unprotected that close to a towing hawser while the loco is surging. The coupling on the 159 has been through a derailment, and could quite easily have been strained; if anything fails, the men are directly in line of the recoil.
This is one of the most ham-fisted and unsafe things I have ever seen. That it took place on a British railway is a sad testament to the state of our nation. And you just know these guys had a toolbox talk and safety training beforehand, all of which they ignored in favour of "Big loco drags carriages free with springy rope". Those bodies are going to be bisected if the line parts.
In germany we do it kind of the same way. Bring in big ass diesel loco, and trying to get the mess apart by pulling real hard. Often it is the easyest and festest solution, because putting all the rolling stock back onto the tracks works much better when not everything is in each others way. Especially in a tight spot like a tunnel, where you would have otherwise no room to manouver arround.
@Exiled Viking I can see it's constricted but heavy duty winches, with multiple blocks attached to locos or anchor points would surely be better. That loco is going to run up against coefficient of friction constraints at around 200,000N force. With block and tackle that could be multiplied as required and be safe. If, with no other option, a loco needs to be used, then for God sake clear everyone away.
How to abuse a locomotive that is capable of moving more than 4000tons solo. Class 59 and Class 60 are quite experienced at tearing a coupling clean out of the wagons if the train won't move. Had that chain snapped the guy stood near it would be dead.
Probably, but Thomas carried some jacks in his toolbox and his best mate was a steam crane. These days such inefficiencies have been outlawed in the name of corporate totalitarianism.
Where is the health and safety assesment? When a 8F tried to pull back a DMU that had crashed through the buffers at Royton the steel cable snapped, whipped back and broke a mans leg. Get the men back out of reach of a cable that could snap, also put a buffer wagon on the back of the loco to limit any damage! Learn from lessons of the past.
Have to say i thought that too. I was cringing when I saw how people were stood nearby and was thinking the same thing about what might happen if the cable let go.
I hesitate to call these people amateurs but they were going about the recovery in a very amateurish way! Snatch recovery does work but in these circumstances you can't beat a good old 4 or 5 to one pulley arrangement using a couple of heavy locomotives as anchors.
Oh right, so a whole team of professionals railway crash recovers and this random fella in the RUclips comments knows more! You should apply for a job mate!
It’s not as bad as it looks. Shock loading it like that is exactly how you get 4x4s unstuck quickly and those things are mega strong, safer than steel cable required for pulleys. Still wouldn’t stand that close to it though.
So was the BTP capture to use as evidence to refute any claims in the highly likely event of a catastrophic failure? Quite apart from anything else, there should have been only ONE person appointed as the PIC hand-signaller to the driver, with everyone else instructed to keep watch with hands / arms down and only indicate a stop signal if required. There's a whole catalogue of errors in two-minutes of video that could occupy a full day of safety-training. Thankfully, there were no fatalities in the accident, but in view of one of the train drivers suffering "life-changing injuries", you'd really think those charged with clearing-up would behave in a much safer manner than this in the aftermath. As a retired railwayman, it's very clear that a great deal of expertise in dealing with what appears to be an almost impossible accident to recover from, has been lost. However, to see it lost to this dangerous extent is frightening!
I'm amazed that anyone stood that close to the line. It's THE MOST BASIC safety requirement when using lines, straps and chains etc to extract vehicles, that no one stands anywhere near it. I weep for the future.
If my dad was still alive he would be tearing his hair out by now shouting at the screen seeing this. He was in charge of getting the train moved in the Great Railway Robbery Train. The real one not the film.
Agree - basic issues here - the recoil on that towing line could have been fatal had it broken, and I reckon they had limited idea of what forces they were putting through it. Looks like they haven't asked an engineer (at least a proper one) to look at it. Site looks cluttered with people scattered about.
I know you jest, but everyone is standing back because if that strop breaks, it would split you into two halves. The guy closer to it is an idiot. Everyone should be way infront of the engine. People are still on site so they can help out. E.g. re-secure a strop, rigging etc.
Because of the curve in the track the diesel was pulling the stuck carriage into the side of the tunnel and so jamming it in even more. An anchor to about 10 to 15 metres to the left with a cable to a snatch block on the damaged carriage and returned to a second block on the anchor and then connected to the loco would have had much more success.
At last, someone who is thinking exactly as I and also clearly has experience with lifting & winching gear. Also they would be better off with more than one low gear loco's to SLOWLY move it. You'll do more damage to the loco forcing it like they are.
@@bridgerectifier7711 When one had a loco off the road that could be pulled back, one always used several locos, often an 8F and a couple of Cl Fives and steel cables.
@@johnjephcote7636 - Exactly. An even pull force to equalize the traction abilities of all loco's without pulling themselves off the rails. A quick call to hire all their gear they had, a number of long ropes & multi pulley blocks with a coordinated communication effort, only once the carriage under-frame was released from the tunnel wall.
@@johnjephcote7636 - I know it's easy for us to say this, but I've been there myself before (not quite this situation), but it has to be a better solution than damaging a multi-million pound locomotive.
If you look at earlier photos after the accident all track has been spread. I suspect NR did a patch job to get the 59 in but it was all going to be replaced anyway
Stand by for all the armchair accident recovery specialists who have no idea what is going on inside the tunnel but will still inform us what the people on the job are doing wrong. Got to love the t'interweb!
You are aware that the Class 59 has about 30.000 lbf more maximum tractive effort than the 66? So indeed you need "a couple" to have more power pulling.
Two Class 60's double headed might get it out of the tunnel Failing that, use some jacks to free up the jammed end first might just work. Option 3, cut it up on site and scrap it!
Exactly. It needs jacking off of the walls. They would pull the tunnel out of the hill before the chassis gives way from where it is stuck. Not that the engine has any traction to do that, clearly.
@@davidwebb4904 Come to think of it. I don't think this wedged train is saveable even as parts. I think the best thing they can do is send in some people with a cutters torch, cut the train car up into segments and use a digger to load the parts into a truck or some wagons and take it away. The other train might be salvageable though that is standing upright. Once the wreckage is cleared, the tunnel will need to be assessed for any structural damage before the line can be repaired and opened to traffic again. If there is any structural damage though, the tunnel could take a while to be repaired and that's without the risk of the tunnel wall that could cave in if the damage is severe. I hope there is an update to how long it will take to clear the wreckage and assess the damage. Hopefully they will get it reopen in time for Christmas.
@@BritishRail60062 Theres been quite a bit of new stock come online recently, so the value of these sets is just in their parts. Its just easier and quicker to clear the line by getting them out in one piece.
@@davidwebb4904 I was just concerned that the carriage that the 59 tried to pull was jammed right in the tunnel to a point where it must have been wedged into the tunnel wall that they would have to put it up to free the other parts. I am still looking for an update and from what I have learned that this was due to a SPAD incident as the driver of one of the trains ignored the red signal and this happened. Thank God no one was killed.
@@BritishRail60062 afaik its not been said that the driver ignored the red signal. In fact its been stated that the train slid past a signal at danger. That would suggest that a full brake application had been made. Its not been said if the signal went to danger in front of the train or if the driver was not paying attention I don't think.
Ironically, these could so easily have been the set for the 1976 M.R. James adaptation of the Charles Dickens story "The Signalman" - The only things missing are the signal cabin, and the red light. To paraphrase "The tunnel accident is the worst to be feared.......". Of course, that was a GWR saddle tank, but the location, apart from the junction turning to the left (of screen), is oh so much the same.
I don't know anything about trains, but judging from the comments people don't seem to be very impressed with this effort. Just wanted to add, my husband has been working for the Salisbury rail replacement services following this crash. From what he has said over the last couple of weeks, the ineptitude at Salisbury is not confined to these workers. The whole running of the station was useless, nobody seemed to know where anybody was going, where they should go or what to do with the numerous coaches used for the rail replacement services. It was so bad one day the police had to attend to deal with the crowd of angry passengers. No organisation whatsoever.
Wow this seems a very primitive way of trying to drag the stock along the track...I wonder is there is a better way e.g jack the stock and use a roller base in stages... Tunnel crashes like this are rare but there must be a better way to recover.
i am assuming they don't have professional contractors that come to derailments with the proper heavy lift equipment ( sidewinders). I am a retired railroader and that was just so unsafe and unprofessional.
I wonder how much damage to the tunnel. I normally stand up and get my bag down ready to change at Salisbury for Warminster when I see the Salisbury tunnel junction sign, glad I wasnt travelling that day !
I'm no expert but I would have had two or three engines pulling not jerking the coaches, and if that cable had snapped those blokes would have been sliced in half
@@mrdrummer2564 Totally sliding, the inital report that the driver slowed at the caution then applied service brake then emergency as he approached the stop signal I find of interest - no railhead treatment, no use of sanders ? and just where is the signal in relation to the hazzard ?
What Amateurish attempt at recovery !!! ( Many old shed foreman would turn in their graves ) This is what happens when 18months ago Network disbanded all their breakdown gangs and all their equipment !! here is the result no jacking no kaobil pulley system all much kinder and easier to loco and infrastructure !! Not even a Bruff in site . Such a shame !! Good video Take note Network Rail !! You need to look at histroy !!!
Exactly, but they have to post their 'expert knowledge' on here to display their ignorance. Maybe all the usual suspects could learn to keep quiet until they know the full details of what was done and why? Unfortunately I've got more chance of becoming King of England than that happening!
@@anubis6864 everyone is a safety officer until theyre the ones doing the job. I say a great job done by the recovery lads on a very complex recovery!!
I know nothing about this industry, but the comments make me laugh. All these experts in the comments should drive down there and do the job themselves. I'm sure they'd get the train out in 5 minutes with their amazing expertise and insight.
Even the 500+ kN of the 59 doesn't shift it? Must be pretty jammed into that tunnel mouth. But if they used a couple of lifting air bags between the tunnel wall and the carriage? that would lower the friction a bit as the air bag can roll.
having experience in pulling heavy equipment out of mud, and witnessing a breaking cable from a traction engine,( it looks like an elastic band, chains also whip) I suggest they were too near the tow for safety. (railworker or no railworker, the physics are the same)
Why could they not move the other unit first? the one that's more or less still upright on the track? Would that not give more room to allow you to use a digger to carefuly 'tip' the trapped unit away from the tunnel mouth?
They just use the 59' s 3300 bhp to drag it out on its side scraping against the tunnel wall? Mind you I'm not sure how I'd do it! I just wouldn't want to be the guy standing next to the tow strap.
Shocking safety measures here no wonder so many Network Rail employee's are being killed they should know better. I suspect the 159 will be scrapped but hopefully the GWR 158 might be repairable.
Judging by the amount of youtube recommends videos, half a dozen people were on the tracks in close proximity filming this who didn't need to be there and probably shouldn't have been filming/uploading to youtube. it's a bit distasteful, would be more so if there had been fatalities instead of life changing injuries.
I cannot believe the Laurel and Hardy effort to rescue the unit. What if that rope had snapped and hit someone? Far better would have been to have cut up the wreckage.
There has got to be a better way to do that. If that strap were to fail, it could very well kill somebody in it's path. Not to mention the damage to the railheads where the locomotive was spinning it's wheels. Add to that, the fact that this is a really good way to burn up those DC traction motors. Then again, what do I know?...
@@tgm9991 Their ability to restart heavy loads on steep gradients when the weather and rail head conditions gets tough is almost legendary. Still GBRF chose a 59 for the job. I really wish I knew why.
Thanks for sharing this. Oh. Dear. God. Is this an example of Britain's brightest and best engineering?? Completely the wrong approach to moving the stricken carriage. Before anything, get the other unit out of the way. Then inspection and stabilisation. Then, using pneumatic bags get the carriage off of the tunnel walls. Inspection. With a crane, get the carriage onto the rails ( depending on the condition of the rails and bogie sets. ). Finally, use the engine to pull the carriage out of the tunnel. Of course, if there are issues that are not covered in this method, then the scheme would be modified accordingly. But that's the bare bones of it. We used this method for a similar incident in France. Worked a charm. Line was open within a short time thereafter.
Wow we have an expert in our midst! Please get your arse down to Salisbury they clearly need you clarity of vision. Except you haven't seen the full situation inside the tunnel ..... 🤦♂
@@DOCTORDROTT While the physical clearance of wreckage may be contracted out to specialist firms it is Network Rail that decides what should be done, how and when as its their infrastructure. Like they called in their own heavy duty crane to free carriages out from the tunnel and then a large road crane (from Ainscough) above the tunnel on the A30 to lift them out onto road trailers. The rail crane was brought in by Colas Rail who maintain and move this NR kit about for NR.
Two locomotives would be double the power of pulling attached by chains to the 159 units if it doesn't work then try pullies and double the chain power
Is there a way to sync the locos like the ones in the US do? Because otherwise trying to communicate between two drivers the thrust wouldn't work and would probably damage the connection between locos.
still not enough power to pull the 159 coach over the gravel even with the 59, spinning loco wheels cleaned the track, maybe get a heavy crane in to lift one end and drag out or jack the coach up, the drag out, failing all that, dismantle on site.
Attempt is the correct word, because it failed miserably to move it an inch. I think that they will have had to rethink their strategy because the train is lying with its weight against that right side wall of the tunnel as you look at the entrance and the locomotive that is trying to pull it out is trying to do so at an angle rather than just straight out. I am no engineer but I don't really know that how they are attempting to do it is the correct answer.
From Ian Hardie's point of view at 1.46 the Beast 59 bellowed a lot of exhaust from the V16 engine And I could tell from looking at the exhaust that engine chucked out, It was not happy. Fun fact for you, it had a larger EMD 710 engine.
The strength of the Class 59s are honestly stunning, even after 36 years of use!
Thats a class 66
@@FowlorTheRooster1990 ,its 59 003.It says it in bright orange on the side.
@@FowlorTheRooster1990 the class 66 was derived from the class 59
Aren't the 59s more powerful than the 66s?
No it’s a class 59 (aka class 66s older brother)
Probably the best work out that 59003 has had in many years given the amount of clag it’s throwing out
Except when the turbo blew
@@mattlander9119 I was on a heavier pull job, 100 tonne loaded steel wagon, locked up solid on a cant, on a gradient on a curve, used a class 66 , put it in slow speed control. This loads the power on gradual no snatching, sanding as well. It did work but it took a lot of effort to move the wagon 120 yards to skate it. Cowboys in that job .
Isn't that in part because like a Deltic they are two strokes and thus banned from further imports in to the country or the EU.
@@robertrich663 It is a 2 stroke but they don't normally smoke that bad (admitted it is doing some work)
Deltics tend to chuck out blue smoke (burning oil?), I believe there is an oil collection drum in the exhaust system (can somebody say yay or nay?)
2 stroke diesels put out more NOx (oxides of nitrogen) than 4 strokes that is why you cannot have any new locos.
Class 69 is a different case as it is an updated loco and the latter version of the V12-710 is loads cleaner than the Ruston V16 it replaces
Back in BR days the recovery team would have used Kelbus gear, pulleys and steel ropes, using two or more locos as anchors and a couple to pull, they hauled a 37 on its side up a steep slope at Marine Colliery in South Wales in the 1970s using Kelbus gear
correct
Did the job properly in BR days ,been told they used Kelbus gear to right ship capsized in Immingham Graving dock (dry dock) used 3 steam locos as anchors so would easy extracted these units
Exactly! I could hardly believe what I was seeing. At its simplest there was enough of some carriages outside the portal to allow a steam crane and 8F (in former times) to at least lift the nearest end before attempting to drag it out. Just pulling it, with all that friction and interlocking of debris and the stretching cable is amateurish, to say the least. Of course, the Kelbus Gear is the norm.
Yes, economics is really good at making us go backwards in engineering terms.
@@johnjephcote7636 - Back in my day as a driver, I would have probably been sacked for causing flats on the wheels, let alone the track damage or eff'in up the loco in many other ways.
When Henry refused to come out of the tunnel the fat controller had it bricked up!
"I think he deserved his punishment. Don't you?"
Supervisor should be sacked for letting the workmen stand unprotected that close to a towing hawser while the loco is surging. The coupling on the 159 has been through a derailment, and could quite easily have been strained; if anything fails, the men are directly in line of the recoil.
Agreed! The guy at 0:10 is much too close- he even seems to flinch as part of the wreck gets displaced.
My thoughts exactly.. In my 35 years on the railway I’ve never seen anything like this..
@@xprs1257 I've never worked on rail, but it was obvious even to me that this was potentially dangerous.
Spot on was thinking the same. It would cut him in half if it let go. Cowboys on this job
@@xprs1257 Done 46 years on rail and engineering. This looks bad
This is one of the most ham-fisted and unsafe things I have ever seen. That it took place on a British railway is a sad testament to the state of our nation. And you just know these guys had a toolbox talk and safety training beforehand, all of which they ignored in favour of "Big loco drags carriages free with springy rope". Those bodies are going to be bisected if the line parts.
Agree totally.
In germany we do it kind of the same way. Bring in big ass diesel loco, and trying to get the mess apart by pulling real hard.
Often it is the easyest and festest solution, because putting all the rolling stock back onto the tracks works much better when not everything is in each others way. Especially in a tight spot like a tunnel, where you would have otherwise no room to manouver arround.
@Exiled Viking I can see it's constricted but heavy duty winches, with multiple blocks attached to locos or anchor points would surely be better. That loco is going to run up against coefficient of friction constraints at around 200,000N force. With block and tackle that could be multiplied as required and be safe. If, with no other option, a loco needs to be used, then for God sake clear everyone away.
@@drawingboard82 - Again, someone who knows about lifting & pulling! Thank you Sir.
How to abuse a locomotive that is capable of moving more than 4000tons solo. Class 59 and Class 60 are quite experienced at tearing a coupling clean out of the wagons if the train won't move.
Had that chain snapped the guy stood near it would be dead.
Thomas would have had that shit cleared up by now.
Probably, but Thomas carried some jacks in his toolbox and his best mate was a steam crane. These days such inefficiencies have been outlawed in the name of corporate totalitarianism.
They're just causing confusion and delay
@@danialhamilton7666 As far as I can see that's how they got them out. Not pretty perhaps but if it works it isn't wrong.🙂
Where is the health and safety assesment?
When a 8F tried to pull back a DMU that had crashed through the buffers at Royton the steel cable snapped, whipped back and broke a mans leg. Get the men back out of reach of a cable that could snap, also put a buffer wagon on the back of the loco to limit any damage!
Learn from lessons of the past.
Have to say i thought that too. I was cringing when I saw how people were stood nearby and was thinking the same thing about what might happen if the cable let go.
In the Fishing industry cables have snapped and Decapitated Trawlermen
I was thinking that. Can't help but think that some of the work force there need retraining.
Anglos never learn. How many decades, accidents and deaths did it take before they realized that locking passengers in carriages was a bad idea?
@@rockerjim8045 try and find a documented case
When this 59 was sent to Germany it probably didn't think it would end up at Salisbury doing this.
It’s a train. I doubt it thinks anything
@@leonbrown7710 its a joke, or at least he's personifying it to make a point, which people do pretty often. No need to point out the obvious.
I hesitate to call these people amateurs but they were going about the recovery in a very amateurish way! Snatch recovery does work but in these circumstances you can't beat a good old 4 or 5 to one pulley arrangement using a couple of heavy locomotives as anchors.
Oh right, so a whole team of professionals railway crash recovers and this random fella in the RUclips comments knows more! You should apply for a job mate!
Whoever was in charge here needs basic safety instructions.
Yeah it was pretty shocking to be fair, the one guy would have been cut in half if that chain broke with more than 3000 horsepower snatching on it.
I reported it to the regulatory body, and I thickly turned out I was not the first.
@@tomw86 😂 I think your complaint would end up in the bin with the rest of them.
@@monkehbitch I didn’t complain. I passed it to the body who investigate incidents.
@@tomw86 can you advise on which body I should report it too? The more the merrier
It’s not as bad as it looks. Shock loading it like that is exactly how you get 4x4s unstuck quickly and those things are mega strong, safer than steel cable required for pulleys. Still wouldn’t stand that close to it though.
Might be mega-strong but certainly ain't working.
Not this time anyway.
So was the BTP capture to use as evidence to refute any claims in the highly likely event of a catastrophic failure? Quite apart from anything else, there should have been only ONE person appointed as the PIC hand-signaller to the driver, with everyone else instructed to keep watch with hands / arms down and only indicate a stop signal if required. There's a whole catalogue of errors in two-minutes of video that could occupy a full day of safety-training.
Thankfully, there were no fatalities in the accident, but in view of one of the train drivers suffering "life-changing injuries", you'd really think those charged with clearing-up would behave in a much safer manner than this in the aftermath. As a retired railwayman, it's very clear that a great deal of expertise in dealing with what appears to be an almost impossible accident to recover from, has been lost. However, to see it lost to this dangerous extent is frightening!
I'm amazed that anyone stood that close to the line. It's THE MOST BASIC safety requirement when using lines, straps and chains etc to extract vehicles, that no one stands anywhere near it.
I weep for the future.
If my dad was still alive he would be tearing his hair out by now shouting at the screen seeing this.
He was in charge of getting the train moved in the Great Railway Robbery Train. The real one not the film.
Agree - basic issues here - the recoil on that towing line could have been fatal had it broken, and I reckon they had limited idea of what forces they were putting through it. Looks like they haven't asked an engineer (at least a proper one) to look at it. Site looks cluttered with people scattered about.
how many railway engineers does it take to move a derailed rain one to drive the loco and 20 to film it on their phones
I know you jest, but everyone is standing back because if that strop breaks, it would split you into two halves. The guy closer to it is an idiot. Everyone should be way infront of the engine.
People are still on site so they can help out. E.g. re-secure a strop, rigging etc.
Next, a visit to the wheel lathe.
Which is located where?
Because of the curve in the track the diesel was pulling the stuck carriage into the side of the tunnel and so jamming it in even more. An anchor to about 10 to 15 metres to the left with a cable to a snatch block on the damaged carriage and returned to a second block on the anchor and then connected to the loco would have had much more success.
At last, someone who is thinking exactly as I and also clearly has experience with lifting & winching gear.
Also they would be better off with more than one low gear loco's to SLOWLY move it. You'll do more damage to the loco forcing it like they are.
@@bridgerectifier7711 When one had a loco off the road that could be pulled back, one always used several locos, often an 8F and a couple of Cl Fives and steel cables.
@@johnjephcote7636 - Exactly. An even pull force to equalize the traction abilities of all loco's without pulling themselves off the rails. A quick call to hire all their gear they had, a number of long ropes & multi pulley blocks with a coordinated communication effort, only once the carriage under-frame was released from the tunnel wall.
@@johnjephcote7636 - I know it's easy for us to say this, but I've been there myself before (not quite this situation), but it has to be a better solution than damaging a multi-million pound locomotive.
Just think the amount of Wheelslip the 59 experienced
It ground through the tracks
If you look at earlier photos after the accident all track has been spread. I suspect NR did a patch job to get the 59 in but it was all going to be replaced anyway
Get the breakdown crane from Eastleigh....oh....that was in the sensible BR days back when I started.
Do cranes work in tunnels then 🤔
@@willmdn The whole breakdown train would have had the kit & the crane could have put its jacks down and used the winch to pull the carriages out.
@@kristinajendesen7111 would the crane have the pulling force to dislodge the carriage?
Class 59 ' Come on out of there'
Class 159 ' Nope'
A Mother trying to get her kid out of the Toy Store
Reminds me in Tomas the Tank Engine when Diesel the black shunter had to pull them old trucks lol
Yes, I can well understand your level of mentality. Thomas the Tank Engine fits it admirably.
Thanks for sharing - interesting to see the recovery efforts
Stand by for all the armchair accident recovery specialists who have no idea what is going on inside the tunnel but will still inform us what the people on the job are doing wrong.
Got to love the t'interweb!
They are doing it wrong
@@leonbrown7710 And you know that because? Were you there? No, so shut up.
@@anubis6864 you don't have to be there to realise the men are putting themselves in danger
"And so we...had a cup of tea.." #rightsaidFred :-D
Them tracks are gonna need some serious replacing afterwards . All that dragging
"I'm giving it all she's got Captain". We need more power bring in a couple of Class 66's.
You are aware that the Class 59 has about 30.000 lbf more maximum tractive effort than the 66? So indeed you need "a couple" to have more power pulling.
Two Class 60's double headed might get it out of the tunnel Failing that, use some jacks to free up the jammed end first might just work. Option 3, cut it up on site and scrap it!
Exactly. It needs jacking off of the walls. They would pull the tunnel out of the hill before the chassis gives way from where it is stuck. Not that the engine has any traction to do that, clearly.
@@davidwebb4904 Come to think of it. I don't think this wedged train is saveable even as parts. I think the best thing they can do is send in some people with a cutters torch, cut the train car up into segments and use a digger to load the parts into a truck or some wagons and take it away. The other train might be salvageable though that is standing upright. Once the wreckage is cleared, the tunnel will need to be assessed for any structural damage before the line can be repaired and opened to traffic again. If there is any structural damage though, the tunnel could take a while to be repaired and that's without the risk of the tunnel wall that could cave in if the damage is severe. I hope there is an update to how long it will take to clear the wreckage and assess the damage. Hopefully they will get it reopen in time for Christmas.
@@BritishRail60062 Theres been quite a bit of new stock come online recently, so the value of these sets is just in their parts. Its just easier and quicker to clear the line by getting them out in one piece.
@@davidwebb4904 I was just concerned that the carriage that the 59 tried to pull was jammed right in the tunnel to a point where it must have been wedged into the tunnel wall that they would have to put it up to free the other parts. I am still looking for an update and from what I have learned that this was due to a SPAD incident as the driver of one of the trains ignored the red signal and this happened. Thank God no one was killed.
@@BritishRail60062 afaik its not been said that the driver ignored the red signal. In fact its been stated that the train slid past a signal at danger. That would suggest that a full brake application had been made. Its not been said if the signal went to danger in front of the train or if the driver was not paying attention I don't think.
Need a proper breakdown gang on that job
Like this one I filmed 30 years ago ruclips.net/video/iAZkvDKomhs/видео.html
@@DOCTORDROTT watching the professionals next after these effing cowboys. Thanks.
Anyone ever seen the film ghost ship? Seeing all those people stood so close to a strap under that much tension brought it to mind
Better yet men of honour
Your go to need a few loco’s to move a static load like that
Thats what was thinking, need another 59 or a 66 or something
Or a static crane.
just fire up a deltic and scare it out
@@Hewitt_himself hahahahaha
@@Hewitt_himself or 2 class 37s
Twang! Snap...
Hey, where did the bloke's head suddenly go? (carrion crows look on expectantly waiting for a meaty snack)
"Hey, where did the bloke's head suddenly go?"
Dunno but he wasn't using it much so he probably won't miss it...
Ironically, these could so easily have been the set for the 1976 M.R. James adaptation of the Charles Dickens story "The Signalman" - The only things missing are the signal cabin, and the red light. To paraphrase "The tunnel accident is the worst to be feared.......". Of course, that was a GWR saddle tank, but the location, apart from the junction turning to the left (of screen), is oh so much the same.
"Hello below. Look out, look out! For God's sake clear the way"
@@stiletto56 "True sir! - They brought her in, and laid her down on this floor between us!"
I don't know anything about trains, but judging from the comments people don't seem to be very impressed with this effort.
Just wanted to add, my husband has been working for the Salisbury rail replacement services following this crash.
From what he has said over the last couple of weeks, the ineptitude at Salisbury is not confined to these workers. The whole running of the station was useless, nobody seemed to know where anybody was going, where they should go or what to do with the numerous coaches used for the rail replacement services.
It was so bad one day the police had to attend to deal with the crowd of angry passengers. No organisation whatsoever.
Wow this seems a very primitive way of trying to drag the stock along the track...I wonder is there is a better way e.g jack the stock and use a roller base in stages...
Tunnel crashes like this are rare but there must be a better way to recover.
There is..... but it takes brain power.
They need to put some butter on the sides of the train so it slips out.
i am assuming they don't have professional contractors that come to derailments with the proper heavy lift equipment ( sidewinders). I am a retired railroader and that was just so unsafe and unprofessional.
I thought the 159 would've been eased out using some ingenious system of jacks and pulleys, but seems brute force it still has it's place
I wonder how much damage to the tunnel. I normally stand up and get my bag down ready to change at Salisbury for Warminster when I see the Salisbury tunnel junction sign, glad I wasnt travelling that day !
Good grief, those 59s have got some grunt.
What a load of Bollards, several straps and at least 2 locos coupled power wise, giving it their grunt.
I'm no expert but I would have had two or three engines pulling not jerking the coaches, and if that cable had snapped those blokes would have been sliced in half
They got it out in the end, I was on the roundabout as it went past on a low loader.
Severe loco abuse there. Considering the 59's have pretty good traction control the carriages must have been stuck fast!
All it takes is a drizzle and those tracks are gonna be super slick. Metal on metal after all.
@@mrdrummer2564 Totally sliding, the inital report that the driver slowed at the caution then applied service brake then emergency as he approached the stop signal I find of interest - no railhead treatment, no use of sanders ? and just where is the signal in relation to the hazzard ?
What Amateurish attempt at recovery !!! ( Many old shed foreman would turn in their graves ) This is what happens when 18months ago Network disbanded all their breakdown gangs and all their equipment !! here is the result no jacking no kaobil pulley system all much kinder and easier to loco and infrastructure !! Not even a Bruff in site . Such a shame !! Good video Take note Network Rail !! You need to look at histroy !!!
Yeah, take note Network Rail - and ignore this and all the other prats that think they know it all!
I know NOTHING about railway recovery but my initial thought was... what if that cable snaps? Going to take a few souls when it whips back.
Well if you know nothing about it how about you keep quiet?
@@anubis6864 Why should I? I bet you comment on stuff on which your knowledge is limited.
It's kinetic rope, not a snatch strap. So many "experts" on this thread!
Exactly, but they have to post their 'expert knowledge' on here to display their ignorance. Maybe all the usual suspects could learn to keep quiet until they know the full details of what was done and why? Unfortunately I've got more chance of becoming King of England than that happening!
@@anubis6864 everyone is a safety officer until theyre the ones doing the job.
I say a great job done by the recovery lads on a very complex recovery!!
I know nothing about this industry, but the comments make me laugh. All these experts in the comments should drive down there and do the job themselves. I'm sure they'd get the train out in 5 minutes with their amazing expertise and insight.
No matter what the torque and traction control you’re never going to get enough traction to move a carriage on its side surely…
I understand they eventually used two locos so there is obviously a point at which enough torque and traction works.
Everything was removed using this method, it did work. As it has done on numerous occasions before in the past.
Anymore videos of the recovery?
the tow line is not parallel with the centreline of the tunnel. so the carriage is wedged in.
The approach does strike me as odd. But what do I know.
Even the 500+ kN of the 59 doesn't shift it?
Must be pretty jammed into that tunnel mouth.
But if they used a couple of lifting air bags between the tunnel wall and the carriage? that would lower the friction a bit as the air bag can roll.
That would be too logical mate. If they cannot free it, cut it up on site and scrap it.
Got nothing to do with power. Its all to do with friction.
Where did you steal these videos from and where is the credit to the original owners?
Beautiful Train Video, Scene Beauty, Very nice explanation & information Thanks
having experience in pulling heavy equipment out of mud, and witnessing a breaking cable from a traction engine,( it looks like an elastic band, chains also whip) I suggest they were too near the tow for safety. (railworker or no railworker, the physics are the same)
Why could they not move the other unit first? the one that's more or less still upright on the track? Would that not give more room to allow you to use a digger to carefuly 'tip' the trapped unit away from the tunnel mouth?
because the one they are trying to move is leaning on it
You sound like the "expert".... Phone them up and ask them ffs
@@nigelbevan8449 who sounds like a expert? If you mean me, then just say that. I was just asking a simple question is all.
Surely it would make more sense to get out the one thats pretty much on the rails first?
They just use the 59' s 3300 bhp to drag it out on its side scraping against the tunnel wall? Mind you I'm not sure how I'd do it! I just wouldn't want to be the guy standing next to the tow strap.
Shocking safety measures here no wonder so many Network Rail employee's are being killed they should know better. I suspect the 159 will be scrapped but hopefully the GWR 158 might be repairable.
Large tube of ky jelly and pop it will be out as quick as it went in
I have no idea why 2 trains derailed inside the tunnel near Salisbury. At least there wasn’t no fatalities but it looks really serious.
Perhaps they should send the three class 69s down there from Tonbridge, let's see what they're capable of.
Need a few more locos to pull a bit harder
Then the chain would of snapped for sure and killed the muppet stood near it. A 59 alone is quite capable of ripping a wagon apart.
wont that completly knacker the tracks??
By far the most dangerous train recovery enacted by suicide jockeys that I have ever seen.
Is that Jeremy Clarkson in the cab, shouting "poooweeeeeer"? :D
Hmm, a 3000hp loco 100ft away straining at full power in my direction? Yep, safe to cross the track here I think. (e.g. 1m45s)
Amazing footage
Judging by the amount of youtube recommends videos, half a dozen people were on the tracks in close proximity filming this who didn't need to be there and probably shouldn't have been filming/uploading to youtube. it's a bit distasteful, would be more so if there had been fatalities instead of life changing injuries.
I cannot believe the Laurel and Hardy effort to rescue the unit. What if that rope had snapped and hit someone? Far better would have been to have cut up the wreckage.
It wasn't a rope, it was a strop. They drop to the ground if they break. But of course you know it all, don't you?
There has got to be a better way to do that. If that strap were to fail, it could very well kill somebody in it's path. Not to mention the damage to the railheads where the locomotive was spinning it's wheels. Add to that, the fact that this is a really good way to burn up those DC traction motors. Then again, what do I know?...
Very little I suspect, but it didn't stop you posting uninformed crap, did it?
@@anubis6864 Pff, of course not!
'Okay so that was Plan A. Does anyone have a Plan B? And, as we may be here some time, could someone organise a Brew?'
My Mk4 golf tdi pulls like a train.... I could lend a hand if needed🤣🤣🤣
"once an engine attached to a train, was afraid of a -few drops of rain- class 59"
Class 60 "So you want a Tug War? go on then it is in my name"
No class 60 here
@@tgm9991 Their ability to restart heavy loads on steep gradients when the weather and rail head conditions gets tough is almost legendary. Still GBRF chose a 59 for the job. I really wish I knew why.
Thanks for sharing this. Oh. Dear. God. Is this an example of Britain's brightest and best engineering?? Completely the wrong approach to moving the stricken carriage. Before anything, get the other unit out of the way. Then inspection and stabilisation. Then, using pneumatic bags get the carriage off of the tunnel walls. Inspection. With a crane, get the carriage onto the rails ( depending on the condition of the rails and bogie sets. ). Finally, use the engine to pull the carriage out of the tunnel. Of course, if there are issues that are not covered in this method, then the scheme would be modified accordingly. But that's the bare bones of it. We used this method for a similar incident in France. Worked a charm. Line was open within a short time thereafter.
Wow we have an expert in our midst!
Please get your arse down to Salisbury they clearly need you clarity of vision.
Except you haven't seen the full situation inside the tunnel ..... 🤦♂
@@1chish need a real breakdown gang on that job.
@@DOCTORDROTT They already do. Its called Network Rail.
@@1chish Network rail don't have a breakdown gang as such, its contracted out to companies like DB etc.
@@DOCTORDROTT While the physical clearance of wreckage may be contracted out to specialist firms it is Network Rail that decides what should be done, how and when as its their infrastructure. Like they called in their own heavy duty crane to free carriages out from the tunnel and then a large road crane (from Ainscough) above the tunnel on the A30 to lift them out onto road trailers.
The rail crane was brought in by Colas Rail who maintain and move this NR kit about for NR.
What a great advert for network rail and the uk
Cool Train observation. CHEERS FROM OVER SEAS UNITED STATES 🇺🇸
Is that all they have.
Get another two added to make sure next time.
Never has one video had so many armchair experts in the comments.
i dunno...this seems about normal for a rail video
i'd love to know How they finally got it out.
Powerful old things 59s
Two locomotives would be double the power of pulling attached by chains to the 159 units if it doesn't work then try pullies and double the chain power
Is there a way to sync the locos like the ones in the US do? Because otherwise trying to communicate between two drivers the thrust wouldn't work and would probably damage the connection between locos.
@@mrdrummer2564 the only way to get them moved would be the cutting blow torch they are wedged between the bridge and the other unit
still not enough power to pull the 159 coach over the gravel even with the 59, spinning loco wheels cleaned the track, maybe get a heavy crane in to lift one end and drag out or jack the coach up, the drag out, failing all that, dismantle on site.
Getting a student out of bed be like
This is pure suicide, they're lucky to be still alive
My model that I have saved it and I didn’t know it was hero!!!
Attempt is the correct word, because it failed miserably to move it an inch.
I think that they will have had to rethink their strategy because the train is lying with its weight against that right side wall of the tunnel as you look at the entrance and the locomotive that is trying to pull it out is trying to do so at an angle rather than just straight out.
I am no engineer but I don't really know that how they are attempting to do it is the correct answer.
If them ropes and chains snapped them men would be in pieces!! Which numpty passed that risk assessment???
NR who else
From Ian Hardie's point of view at 1.46 the Beast 59 bellowed a lot of exhaust from the V16 engine And I could tell from looking at the exhaust that engine chucked out, It was not happy. Fun fact for you, it had a larger EMD 710 engine.
have they tried pulling it from track 2?
Might need an excavator to try and hold it up with some chains as high as possible then pull it out that way.
Is that really the best way to sort this out. Just seems a bit old fashioned.
What a circus! And what were the terrible hand signals the guys on the track were giving.
using a class 59 as a rail head grinding machine....lol
In higher notches, all emds sound the same
Not for the aspirateds like the 567 or 645s those have chugs
Seems crazy the didn't right the carriage before trying to pull it out
Wedged in like a wine cork ? Holy shit 😱
Safety......We all had our hard hats, hi-viz and safety boots on...lol
Great video, I was your 1000th subscriber!
The video was good, the least said about all the uninformed comments the better! 🤬
When they said oh dear, did the 59 die?
Probably got wheel flats now
Would love to see the successful attempt. If you know anyone who has got it.