You said that the thing that drove you crazy was the fact that when you switched it off and on again you lose the fantastic patch that you had previously created. I believe that the reason for this lies with the reset button. It is very easy to creates sequence 2 and forget to synchronise it to sequence 1. For the patch to play back the same every time the two sequences both have to start at beat one, at the same time. When you switch off then on again the sequences automatically reset. This may not be the same as the patch you had before. I have tested it. Sequence 1 will remain exactly the same. So will sequence 2. It is just a matter of how they are initially synchronised. Hope this helps and makes sense. Aa
This is exactly what I thought was happening when he described it. I don't have one, but is there a way to shift one of the sequences to try to find the beat one you had before? It seems like you'd only have to shift one of the sequences through the four steps and one of the steps would sound right.
Came here to make this reply. I run the IG account @moogsubharmoniconpatches and it's the #1 question I get in DMs. I understand why it's misunderstood, but this is just the nature of starting each of sequencer at different times-which undoubtedly happens while tinkering around-vs. Reset. Timing of your mathematical divisions is different from before you unplugged it.
@@bystander85 record. :P If you want maximum repeatability, hit Reset after programming your patch and don’t modify rhythm pots while playing it. If you want to play the rhythm pots and send oscillators to multiple rhythms AND want 100% repeatability, it’s like any other complex instrument: practice. You can aid your memory by recording not just the audio but *video* while playing as well. This is good advise for any synth that does not save and recall patches.
I’ve had a SH for about 4 months now, and as I understand it better, it’s easier to find the sweetspots. I use an oscilloscope to tune it, and it really helps to have the visual feedback. It helps to understand intervals, intuit the relationship between the dials and the frequencies. If you are aiming for harmonic sounds, there are only a few intervals that will actually work together - f/3, f/5 etc. I actually did a lot of research into harmonics, frequencies, scales etc and this was daunting but worth it. I have two Subharmonicons (subharmonica?) which compounds the tuning. For percussive sounds 2 SHs work really well, and I agree that CV is a much better way to align them than MIDI. We have to accept the value of analogue gear, and give up the idea of presets - use a DAW or digital synth if reproducing with fidelity is your aim. I have an Octatrack too, and took a couple of weeks working through the manual, and I didn’t feel the steep learning curve. You can learn the SH by playing around with it, but the Octatrack requires a bit more deliberate study. The Moog SH manual is beautifully presented, but I think it’s lacking some detail. Some clear examples (if your main oscillator is set to C, this is how to tune the sub oscillator to G and Bb) would have helped - perhaps I will create a video on my channel which looks at consonance vs dissonance.
I love my Subharmonicon now but I had buyer's remorse the first 2 weeks after I bought it. It does require patience and a lot of effort, but in the end I think it's worth it. No other synth I own sounds like it.
It's great that you highlighted the frustration that can result from the SH's learning curve. The subharmonicon is an unconventional instrument but as someone who struggles with playing conventional keyboards, the Subharmonicon is a great way to make sounds you wouldn't have been able to make in any other way. Experimentation is rewarded. Also, SH is great for creating despite writer's block. It's a very 2020 lockdown-friendly device for those with the luxury of time and also integrates really well with Mother-32, DFAM, Werkstatt-01 and the trigger out of drum machines. I'm very happy to own one.
Same. If you want to be able to 'play' it like a keyboard then you will, as is seen in this video, become frustrated. But that's not how you use the SubH. I don't really understand the learning curve argument either - again I think that this is misunderstanding the 'happy accident' relationship you form with the SubH - it requires absolutely no learning at all. When you get to know the SubH you'll learn how to tame it - you don't need to know that twisting X knob reduces a division by 1/16 - you don't need to be doing any maths. Twist some knobs, eventually you'll get something amazing you'd have never thought of. Tune your other gear to the Sub and away you go. Trying to use it like a normal synth by playing the oscillators via MIDI is totally missing the point.
Thank you for a honest review. I have one of these beast, but not yet enough time to dive into it. so I have now a bit of warning to start with. It would be very welcome to see more videos about it.
i was about to give some comment on the issues you displayed, but fortunately read through the existing comments first. They explain and solve the issues far better and simpler than i could ever have done. Now that is what i especially like about your channel and your presentation: you directly speak the language and feelings of brothers and sisters that are also learning and sometimes struggeling with their instruments. And this little community is forming in which solutions and interhelp is bursting out from the comments. Great stuff!
I just got a SH and love it! It did the sample patches from the included overlays and was up and running by the third use. The key with it is understanding that total CW VCO & rhythm knobs is 1:1 and CCW is 1:1/16. This is a great exploration synth - not recommended as one's first synth. Using the 6 VCOs either independently or in tandem internally or externally is great. The external patching brings another dimension to this thing - both controlling other modules and having other modules controlling the SH. Not a huge fan of using the included Sequencers without a Data Mordax, but using 1v/oct from eternal source on VCO1&2 works great. Another thing to keep in mind - if using with external modules - the SEQ OCT (+- 5, +-2, +-1) is different that most external Eurorack modules (0-10v) - so keep an attenuator handy (both in and out of SH). Definitely recommend buying a SH!
I have a Matriarch and a Subsequent 25 and started drooling over the Subharmonicon. Some wizards did a great review on it and it looked...easy. I was too proud to mindlessly follow the advice from The Midlife Synthesist (being in midlife myself) and watched just one more video--TIm Shoebridge. Tim is no slouch and his video diary with this unit ran TEN DAYS. If it took 10 days for Tim and Midlife says 'Don't Do It' I'm finally listening. Loopop gave a great workaround using Plaits and that's where I'm staying. With much respect for your fair and unbiased opinions, I thank you.
Thanks for the video! That was what I was looking for! I'm new to synths and this product looks intriguing, but complicated! You saved me some money and frustration! Thanks for that!
hi i am an evening beginner and have ordered my Mother 32 which will arrive today with the mail i also wanted to order the Sub hamonic and saw this video of you i am very happy that you give such a clear description that i will wait until i have some am more experienced with analog synth so great that you are so clear thanks a lot
I am ready for this battletoads synth. It's perfect. I think this will add a bunch of value to my softpop2 and Korg Ms-20 even if it takes me a year to get a handle on it.
I'm a jazz student and noob synthesist looking to know as much possible about synths before pulling the trigger and get my first baby, your channel is teaching me soooooo much about this wonderful world. Keep it up, love from italy
I am so glad that you made this review. It’s nice to see somebody being honest and open about a synthesizer that I was interested in and now I’m not. I have a large array of synthesizers in my studio and I also have a lot of them put away inside of a closet. So I know the frustration that there is that goes behind learning a synthesizer. But I also know the pleasure that you get once you learn how to use and master your instrument. Although mastering can take many many years and sometimes you never get a chance to master any instrument but just enjoy playing it.
Thank you so much👍🏼 I feel very much the same way, and I kind of feel guilty cause I feel I am using these things at like 15% their real capacity 😅 have an awesome day and I hope to hear from you again!
The thing about the Moog Subharmonicon unlike any other synth, its just like a love affair, you stare at it for a while, finally do something, and its strange, yet beautiful. Wouldn't swap it for the world, a truly unique bit of kit
this is so true! I bought the DFAM, then I ask for the SH + DF and now Im returning them to get the 3 of them and just record everything, with no need of caring that the sound is gone... :))
Thanks for this perspective. You touched on several points that were niggling in the back of my head after seeing other demo vids. You confirmed my fears and but also deepened my curiosity. If I do get this I now have much more realistic expectations. Thanks!
Hey man, this was a great video. Thank you so much for taking the time to make it, and give us all of the pros and cons before investing in this awesome Moog synth! 😀
Thanks for the heads up! I was looking at this synth and the Labyrinth to see which one I may purchase. Now, I can definitely discount buying the Subharmonicon. Cheers.
I was so excited to get this and so disappointed that i couldnt get it to go. THANK YOU for calling out that it sounds different every time. Thought I was going crazy!
After a number of aggravating nights, to help with recreating the same sound, I document the number of note steps as I turn the dials of the sequencers and oscillators. Would be nice to have a little readout that shows the number of steps!
I'd also add that as an abstract elecrtonic composer...other peoples mud may well be gold for me and vice versa! Atonal staggered ployrhythms that make no 'sense', extreme and abrasive noise, feedback etc..all beautiful in their own way!
Thank you for sharing my frustration. I struggle with it but love it and some days it sit’s unused because it’s too much to deal with. Mine will stay since I do have the time but yes....it drives you crazy 😎 Great video
I have a Matriarch and I just pluged into midi connection of sub harmonicon with a dumb patch into the clock. This works great as a complementary VCO and sub VCO (6 VCO and 4 sub VCO and 3 filters) is crazy!
Man I just watched another video with you on the Keystep 37. I've got to say that you are the coolest that I've seen and heard. You seem to be so trustworthy and on the ball. So needless to say after watching this video I had to subscribe to your channel. Thanks again and I'll be watching you later. Be cool!!
Dude! YOU are the coolest! Thank you so much for such kind words, I truly appreciate every one of them! I’ll always try to keep making content you enjoy as much as I enjoy making, and hopefully, it’ll be a long and bumpy ride. Lots of love!
One easy way I have found to get the melody, harmony and rhythm working well is to whack the tempo up and tune it at high speed. Nobody mentions this but it works a treat
Love this machine. The challenge and discovery process is much more fun, surprising, and rewarding than some of the other "tough eggs" I've tried to crack.
Hi dude! Thanks for watching and sharing. I’m just relieved it wasn’t just me😅 the SH certainly looks innocent on the surface, but you are totally right, it can be very hard work and considerable frustration to get it to work in the traditional sense. See you around!✌🏻
In my experience the two synths that had the biggest sweet spots are the Roland Juno 106 and Moog Minimoog. Its hard to make a bad sound with these regardless of settings, and probably explains their popularity and massive influence on other synths.
I have both the SubHarmonicon and the Octatrack. Agree on both. Love both. I also have a DFAM, using the sub harmonicon’s VCO outputs into the DFAM ext audio in. Seems to make it easier to manage. Also just tuning the Main OSC to C. The Midi seems like an afterthought. I love the SubHarmonicon it really added to my creative flow. Of course it is used mainly as a super 303 and sounds great with all my other gear. It’s my first semi modular piece. Good concise video. Subscribed.
Yep, 1. Reset issue. Ive been through that. High and slow learning curve. End result better feel for SH’s sound. 2. It’s not good to think of it as a monosynth, it really isn’t with 6 oscillates controlled by 2 VCO’s.
Thanks so much for mentioning 📢THE TIME FACTOR. You are the voice of reason, and you rightfully crushed my GAS for the Subharmonicon. I still have plenty to explore in my other synths. I subscribed and will keep your channel in my top list. 🍺
Thanks for the warning, I'm to stupid for these kinds of devices so that's one synth less on my "maybe I should get at some point list". But yes, the sound this thing can make is really something and in the right hands this is gold. For me though it would be pearls before swine or just a lump of coal.
Same feeling here bro! I’ve seen Red Means Recording do some amazing improve on it, but it’s just not the style of stuff I like making. I guess I’m just a simple man at heart lol. Thanks for watching and commenting, see you around!
Firstly, great video. Some great points. It would be interesting to know if anyone else gets ‘sequence loss’ when powering off and on. It’s not something I’ve noticed with mine yet but maybe it depends on what setting you’re using. Perhaps I’m using the defaults it reverts to by accident. I will look into this! Weirdly in relation to your point 2 I haven’t honestly found it that complex but maybe that’s just how my brain works. It’s not as if I’m particularly bright 😬 Or maybe I just haven’t realised it’s complex yet (argh 😂). Perhaps a synth to buy because you can see a place for it in your setup and not something to get on a whim but then that’s most synths I guess (no no I just want it so I’m gonna buy it ...). For context I love it and find I can fit it within a more traditional setup albeit producing more progressive style music than I normally would. I am also writing music purely for my own pleasure so I have no time constraints which could be a big factor as you mentioned. Keep doing what you do. Always a pleasure.
@@0VRLNDR Thanks I will take a look :) I am actually finding that the sequence buttons appear to reset but that's probably just my imagination ... ! Love the SubH and will update my comment when I've got to the bottom of what's going on. Just got a Mother 32 as well so lots to dig into.
Hi bro! Thanks for watching and sharing a comment! Apparently the “issue” has been solved by someome smarter than I 😅 the SH is a very peculiar machine indeed, but it is wonderful in its own way! Cheers!
Thanks for a very informative video! I may still end up getting one when I've moved to a bigger cave, but the Hydrasynth gained yet a bigger lead now! ;-)
Thank you so much for watching! The Hydrasynth looks VERY interesting. Even heard a few seasoned synthesists saying it was everything they wanted in that type of synth. The thing is, no one can do what the Subharmonicon does, but I think the question (and the point of my video) is, “do I really want/need that thing that it does so well?”. If it’s your flavour, go for it. Anyway, thank you so much for stopping by and dropping me a line, cheers!
@@MidlifeSynthesist Yeah, the Hydrasynth DO tick all the boxes for me including adding to my humble patchable setup with its cv outputs. Will have to wait a few (?) months whilst we move house though. :-(
I have not experienced the on/off issue. I almost always take a day or 2 to mess with a patch before recording it and it's always been there. I think I've enjoyed figuring out this device's quirks, this device makes a lot of sense to me, and I can quickly pull up desired results at this point. oddly enough I got rid of the Microfreak for almost all the same reasons and that's like everyone's favorite little synth..... I think certain devices speak to certain people.
Hi, many thanks for this very entertaining overview on the subharmonicon. I am actually getting into synth and I am very attracted by the Moog semimodulars. Following your videos I should opt for the Grandmother. Although sooner or later I’ll probably get the Moog studio as well… 😂 Anyway, all the best for the future, stay safe! Cheers from Germany.
I do not have the problem with it shutting off and losing what I had just made. I've had the same sequence programmed for weeks and I turn it on and it's good to go. Might be worth contacting Moog support.
Really appreciate honest unbiased reviews. I realised my Korg Volca was not what I needed really. So following RUclips reviews I went for a novation circuit tracks. Bit of an expensive mistake. I should have just bought a synth. The tracks isn’t worth selling on for the money they fetch. So going to save and by the micro freak. For someone who knows little about electronic instruments and whose friends that are musicians are acoustic. It’s difficult and expensive trying to get the machine I need. Wish I’d found your channel a few years ago. 🇬🇧
I just discovered you this after i saw someone local selling a subharmonicon at a "ohh, this could be a fun impulse buy" price. You have told me exactly what i needed to know and saved me many hours of frustration, thank you. I get frustrated when my BooG D doesnt make noise so i shall pass on this. Thank you for a review of what i actually needed to hear.
Thanks for sharing this. Even though I fool around with hardware synths for a decade now, I still consider myself a newbie and I often think, I'm the error if something doesn't work as I think it should. Just letting go the "I want to have it like this" and welcoming "let's see what happens" made this machine a lot more enjoyable to me …
Thanks for being the every man synthesist! I rarely buy a piece of gear these days without looking at Loopop, BoBeats, sonicstate and then YOU. Your perspectives are astute and based in real-life example. You're a welcome additional to a handful of gentlemen on here that show us this new gear and you in particular, bring a very practical, down to earth, yet artistic and somewhat philosophical approach.
Thank you so much for that! I am truly humbled and honored by your kind and generous words. You really made my day my friend, hope to hear from you soon! Cheers🤟🏻
Thanks for this. The others reviews come from a place of expert than novice. This is on my list, and the things you discussed is probably the things that I will bang my head against.
Mine recreates sequences just fine after being switched off. Always use reset to keep things a bit more predictable. Tuning is rock solid. I’m no Moog fan but love the SH. If you want a sequencer that gives you predictable results this won’t do it, and that’s why it’s fantastic.
ah man, thanks for this video. love the sound that comes out of this thing but the problems you mention make it unusable for me. what synth would you recommend that has a similar sound quality but at the same time they are very easyto get into a sweet spot with?.
Hello my friend! Sorry for the delayed response. To be honest, even though you might probably get a very similar "sound" by sequencing and multitracking a mother 32 or a few werkstatts working together, the truth is that the magic of the subharmonicon is in the weird notes and chords that arise when you are tweaking and exploring. It really is a very cool machine to get lost in. But like a said in my review, it takes (for me) way to long to get there. But going back to your question, the sound it very much the "Moog" sound, so I'd look into one of their synths. If you want a sweet spot machine, the Grandmother is pure honey and has the modular taste to it. Hope that helps!
I think it's all about how you approach this machine. If you have an idea in your head and you want to express it with synthesisers, the subharmonicon is not the tool to use to achieve that kind of goal. It's an happy accident machine. Though it's true you have to dig through mud to get the gold. It takes getting used to to make it sound like not a chaotic mess. I think I agree with everything you've said here. But I love this synth. In combination with the Dfam it's amazing in my opinion. Also, record everything is a good idea. You can sample it too. Anyway, good video. Thank you!!
I really enjoy the perspective you offer to music and music gear - I'm such a culprit when it comes to falling for G.A.S and I enjoy your balanced approach. Quite often I get caught up in the influencer end-of-embargo rush of videos about a new piece of gear - which, of course, no one talks about or uses six months later.
The SH is a unique beast. I've had it for over a year now, and it is weird. And in its weirdness, I have discovered its beauty. And it is temporal. No sound is going to remain for long. But it can be tamed. Kind of.
You make valid points for sure. Its a strange synth and it is a wild animal. You are right, there is a lot of trudging thru the trenches before you see the light. And it is glorious when you get a great thing going with it. I don't feel its just a soundscape or generative only box tho. Ever since I have bought it, it seems to find a way into almost all of my tracks on my channel. Sometimes in ways I didn't expect which added life to a jam. I do feel like it would be daunting to have this as my first synth tho, you are right about that. And the first week I had it, I thought I had made a big mistake. But now, I don't know if I would sell it. Thanks for the video, good job. Cheers.
Great video, and input. I’ve been reluctant to pull the trigger on this beast for the same reasons you mentioned, mainly my lack of patience. Don’t get me wrong, I love to explore, but not willing to spend and hour on a four step sequence.
I still really want one... My takeaway is it's a "happy accident machine" that is better for inspiring new ideas (and different ones than I'd come up with on a traditional instrument) than for adding to existing ones... Does that sound right to you?
That’s it in a nutshell for me👍🏼 great to get out of a rut and get you started on making music “outside of the box”, but a pain to add to a pre existing more traditional arrangement. Trying to get your sequences to “correctly” change notes and keep the harmony together from verse to chorus to bridge is a whole other story😤 If you have the time and patience for it though, it does make some amazing and unexpected harmonies and melodies and it does take you to unexplored musical territory. Thanks for watching my friend!
3 года назад+1
Thanks or your video. It really looked from other youtube videos that it usually sounds very good. I'm hesitant a little now. My favorite gear is also the Octatrack, so the assumption that I would learn over time is here. Another fact is that I most often play improvised experimental techno, so it could probably work as well.
Awesome! I really believe the subharmonicon is a great instrument for the right person, unfortunately it’s not for everyone, so I’m happy this helped! Happy beatmaking my friend!
Great to get a long-time user's perspective. All the YT reviews I've seen are positive. I like Tim Shoebridge's review which is also positive but also the most critical :-) I bought one but everything seemed like a one-bar pattern. Just me? I dunno. Ultimately not impressed enough to keep it but great to see Moog trying something new and that some people are enjoying it.
Yup it's deffo not a first or workhorse synth, hopefully though people realise that by just looking at the thing, though like u said the RUclipsr's reviewing it did not dwell on it's shortcomings much at all! - Especially how it can sound really crap until you push through to the good stuff.. which is really good. One thing i do now is send Sequence and Clock CV out to my Make Noise 0 Coast 1 V/Oct and Gate inputs and that generates some cool patterns and sounds .. i think that's where the Subharmicon really works, in tandem with other modular and sem-modular gear. Nice video! : )
I greatly appreciate your honest assessment of the SUB. In truth, I was about to pull trigger on this until I came across your video. Your review was right on point and I thank you for saving me the grief I would have incurred had I bought it.
Thank you my friend! I just wanted to give a “normal” users perspective in hopes I could help someone like myself not get this synth for the wrong reasons. If it helped you in any way, I did my job lol. Thanks for watching!
As a counter-balance the subh is one of my favourite instruments ever. Don't base your decision on one youtube video... Order one from a friendly retailer that will let you return it if you're not happy. I think that it's a fairly unique instrument and you need to play with it yourself to see if it works with your and your setup.
I know who it's not for...me. I had one and had every single issue you mentioned, however I was patient and worked with it daily and I was making progress (and learned early on to record things I liked). But I did not enjoy it much and I wished I'd got something different. But some time later, something weird happened with the oscillators and no sound was coming out of either of them (not filters or some setting;it was not working as designed). After a bunch of trouble shooting I came to learn that there had been a few other people with such an issue and it would require some sort of elaborate something which would require tools...I was just short of my return window so I did just that. Got the grandmother instead and I am much happier with that choice. I also discovered that I have almost 0 interest in patching anything to anything, which was another strike against it for me. I do have patches to work with on the grandmother, but I don't mind these as much and it's about as much patching as I care to experiement with. But the subharmonicon is a beautiful sounding instrument so I'm glad some people have worked out how to create enjoyable things with it. I like listening to it. I didn't like working with it myself.
Dude, that must have been such a bummer, subharmonicon dying on you like that. That’s actually pretty scary! Glad you got the grandmother though, I love that synth! And I totally get what you mean about the patching, it’s fun, but it’s definitely not a priority for me right now. Anyway, good to know you at least got a happy ending. Cheers bro! Thanks for sharing!
@@MidlifeSynthesist yes, total bummer. I was prepared to work with it until I got over the hump, but that last issue was more than I wanted to deal with, though I certainly would have if I'd have been past my return period. I've had a couple situations with the grandmother, but those have centered more on recalibration using some download files (something I can more easily wrap my head around) and I chalk those experiences up to learning more about synths in general, since other hardware also has to be recalibrated and retuned periodically.
Nice video, while I agree with all your points I"m not sure I entirely agree with your conclusions, it's difficulty in reproduction of sound is mostly due to all of the different factors in the synth (seq+sub osc+osc) and the sensitivity of each knob (common with Moog synths) - but in your demo of powering off the device and getting a different sound, it looks like the oscillators simply hadn't warmed up or rather in general that their frequency wasn't the same. The sequence, subharmonics, etc. all seemed to be exactly the same. Nothing some pitch info (as you mentioned) to VCO1+2 CV couldn't fix, if waiting a few minutes doesn't resolve it on it's own. (While I haven't noticed this issue with my Subharmonicon, I have noticed with other analog synths that if I use the oscillators before they are warmed up they never sound right until after a power cycle). HTH
Agree it wasn't a rhythm issue it sounded like they went out of tune slightly. Once an oscillator is warm though it doesn't instantly cool down when turned off - this was just an off/on situation so there wouldn't have been any significant temperature change (unless there was an edit?). There is an issue that Moog 'plan to address with firmware' (sometime in 2029 at this rate) with the sequencer tuning pots, they're digital and when the synth is turned on they sometimes only 'know' their position once the pot as been moved. I won't pretend to understand it fully but I suspect if he wiggled each of the sequencer pots without changing the actual position then it would have got back into tune - essentially reminding each of them what they're actually set at.
This is really helpful I have a voyager RME and that really defines the moog sound which is iconic.... I really like the design and concept of the sub h. but it is very hard to find demos where it sounds good to me, the majority sound metallic and thin, Some do sound good ....not saying it’s always terrible......but I was hoping it would sound more like the mother 32......regarding workflow this looks challenging
This and the Lyra-8 seem very leftfield and I have seen similar reactions..people have gotten frustrated with it being unable to turn it into a predictable and totally controllable device and have sold it on (often to regret it later!). I think it boils down to two camps of synthesist, those that want to ultimately control the environments it creates and have no leakage (in terms of unwanted sounds or key) and those who dont and will allow for leakage and the machines to do their own thing to a certain extent. The SH does not really fit into the press a button and get the exact result you want box. Personally I dont think that was what it was designed for anyway. Its a learning curve and worth hanging in there for.
You nailed it👍🏼 that’s exactly it. It’s awesome for a certain type of music making, but it is very much it’s own thing, and buying it expecting it to function like “another mono synth” is where some people will have a bad time. I for one have learned to love its idiosyncrasies, but the point of the video was to warn people who might have false expectations for what this thing does in a synth setup. Thanks for sharing my friend! Thanks for stopping by!
I’m trying hard to love it. Only had it a few days so hopefully I’ll have the patience to stick with it. Ditto the DFAM! That’s even harder to get anything good out of it, IME.
If you want something “behaving” as you expect it after a power cycle, I recommend going fully digital. There you can save and recall where you left off. There will always be changes in analogue due to temperature drift and component tolerances.
Nah, not really for the modern stuff. I saw the old polivoks and minimoog could be terrible to (re) tune sometimes. But I had absolutely no problems with the new minimoog for example (even years after, in studio or on stage), and I can say I never had this problem with the OB6 as well (that was released around 2010 or something ?). Even if this one has a digital part for the presets, the signal path is analog.
Amazing explanation. I Liked how you explained it is not wise to be a 1st synth purchase. Once the user becomes more experienced with synths then this is a good extra addition and requires one to record the sequences to use in live performance. I love how it sounds but I would not get it straight away. It's going to be an addition down the line of my journey
Hey just came across your channel. I am a long time Moog owner and fan and I really enjoyed this video. The SubH is an incredible instrument and I believe will be one of their classics in years to come. But as you point out it really can be frustrating to use. Now I know this is not very green, but my way around the tuning issues etc is to not turn it off. That is why I have not turned mine off for months and months now. Still a great instrument in my books and can be wonderful for experimentation. But I am finding limits to it.
Nice channel my guy, subbed. I've been loving my Subharmonicon as my first and only synth but it is pretty frustrating sometimes. My biggest issue is a firmware problem that apparently is on all of them. The sequence clock outs' pulses are slightly delayed, as in they send pulses after the note has already played, likely on the falling edge of the clock. It doesn't matter now since I don't have any other modules to trigger other than maths (which makes the Subharmonicon infinitely more useful) but I'd like to see a firmware update soon.
You definitely have to have supporting devices around this unit! I agree it's built in midi is garbage and needs a firmware fix! I actually bought the arturia minibrute just to convert the cv to midi and the fact the sequencer can tame both oscillators very well! I didn't scrap this unit because it can do things that no other unit can! I think it's worth the time, because I believe in doing whatever it takes to get the right sound! I am one that almost never uses presets on anything so that speaks for itself! But great advice for this unit! I love it and DFAM, they get used in just about all of my tracks! But I also work with lots of ambient material and have loads of supporting gear! I also agree this should NOT be your first or only device in the Moog semi series as you suggested! Good job man! You earned another sub! Cheers!! Drew
Give me weird. Give me confusion. Give me unexpected and WTF. It's why I love the DFAM and the Volca Drum. Hell, it's why I love ALL synths. Yes, it can sometimes be frustrating - but it can also be amazing and wonderful. If all a synth does is exactly what you expect of it and nothing more, what's the point? It'd like be having a robot as a partner that mindlessly does your bidding. Fun at first, then boring AF for the rest of time...
@@MidlifeSynthesist TBH, the DFAM isn't all that confusing - it's more of a unusual take on a drum machine than a unusual take on synthesis itself. But still, I love it.
You said that the thing that drove you crazy was the fact that when you switched it off and on again you lose the fantastic patch that you had previously created. I believe that the reason for this lies with the reset button. It is very easy to creates sequence 2 and forget to synchronise it to sequence 1. For the patch to play back the same every time the two sequences both have to start at beat one, at the same time. When you switch off then on again the sequences automatically reset. This may not be the same as the patch you had before. I have tested it. Sequence 1 will remain exactly the same. So will sequence 2. It is just a matter of how they are initially synchronised. Hope this helps and makes sense.
Aa
This is exactly what I thought was happening when he described it. I don't have one, but is there a way to shift one of the sequences to try to find the beat one you had before? It seems like you'd only have to shift one of the sequences through the four steps and one of the steps would sound right.
Came here to make this reply. I run the IG account @moogsubharmoniconpatches and it's the #1 question I get in DMs. I understand why it's misunderstood, but this is just the nature of starting each of sequencer at different times-which undoubtedly happens while tinkering around-vs. Reset. Timing of your mathematical divisions is different from before you unplugged it.
Thank you so much for sharing this👍🏼
So the workaround to this to prevent losing your patch?
@@bystander85 record. :P
If you want maximum repeatability, hit Reset after programming your patch and don’t modify rhythm pots while playing it. If you want to play the rhythm pots and send oscillators to multiple rhythms AND want 100% repeatability, it’s like any other complex instrument: practice. You can aid your memory by recording not just the audio but *video* while playing as well. This is good advise for any synth that does not save and recall patches.
I’ve had a SH for about 4 months now, and as I understand it better, it’s easier to find the sweetspots. I use an oscilloscope to tune it, and it really helps to have the visual feedback. It helps to understand intervals, intuit the relationship between the dials and the frequencies. If you are aiming for harmonic sounds, there are only a few intervals that will actually work together - f/3, f/5 etc. I actually did a lot of research into harmonics, frequencies, scales etc and this was daunting but worth it.
I have two Subharmonicons (subharmonica?) which compounds the tuning. For percussive sounds 2 SHs work really well, and I agree that CV is a much better way to align them than MIDI.
We have to accept the value of analogue gear, and give up the idea of presets - use a DAW or digital synth if reproducing with fidelity is your aim.
I have an Octatrack too, and took a couple of weeks working through the manual, and I didn’t feel the steep learning curve. You can learn the SH by playing around with it, but the Octatrack requires a bit more deliberate study. The Moog SH manual is beautifully presented, but I think it’s lacking some detail. Some clear examples (if your main oscillator is set to C, this is how to tune the sub oscillator to G and Bb) would have helped - perhaps I will create a video on my channel which looks at consonance vs dissonance.
I love my Subharmonicon now but I had buyer's remorse the first 2 weeks after I bought it. It does require patience and a lot of effort, but in the end I think it's worth it. No other synth I own sounds like it.
I sold mine on after a month. I couldn’t get along with it. I would agree that it sounds like no other synth I’ve ever owned.
It's great that you highlighted the frustration that can result from the SH's learning curve. The subharmonicon is an unconventional instrument but as someone who struggles with playing conventional keyboards, the Subharmonicon is a great way to make sounds you wouldn't have been able to make in any other way. Experimentation is rewarded. Also, SH is great for creating despite writer's block. It's a very 2020 lockdown-friendly device for those with the luxury of time and also integrates really well with Mother-32, DFAM, Werkstatt-01 and the trigger out of drum machines. I'm very happy to own one.
Same. If you want to be able to 'play' it like a keyboard then you will, as is seen in this video, become frustrated. But that's not how you use the SubH. I don't really understand the learning curve argument either - again I think that this is misunderstanding the 'happy accident' relationship you form with the SubH - it requires absolutely no learning at all. When you get to know the SubH you'll learn how to tame it - you don't need to know that twisting X knob reduces a division by 1/16 - you don't need to be doing any maths. Twist some knobs, eventually you'll get something amazing you'd have never thought of. Tune your other gear to the Sub and away you go. Trying to use it like a normal synth by playing the oscillators via MIDI is totally missing the point.
Interesting approach!
Thank you for a honest review. I have one of these beast, but not yet enough time to dive into it. so I have now a bit of warning to start with. It would be very welcome to see more videos about it.
Thank you for watching! I’m actually working on a tutorial/trouble shooting video for new subharmonicon users to release soon, so stay tuned! Cheers!
i was about to give some comment on the issues you displayed, but fortunately read through the existing comments first. They explain and solve the issues far better and simpler than i could ever have done.
Now that is what i especially like about your channel and your presentation: you directly speak the language and feelings of brothers and sisters that are also learning and sometimes struggeling with their instruments. And this little community is forming in which solutions and interhelp is bursting out from the comments.
Great stuff!
I just got a SH and love it! It did the sample patches from the included overlays and was up and running by the third use. The key with it is understanding that total CW VCO & rhythm knobs is 1:1 and CCW is 1:1/16. This is a great exploration synth - not recommended as one's first synth. Using the 6 VCOs either independently or in tandem internally or externally is great. The external patching brings another dimension to this thing - both controlling other modules and having other modules controlling the SH. Not a huge fan of using the included Sequencers without a Data Mordax, but using 1v/oct from eternal source on VCO1&2 works great. Another thing to keep in mind - if using with external modules - the SEQ OCT (+- 5, +-2, +-1) is different that most external Eurorack modules (0-10v) - so keep an attenuator handy (both in and out of SH). Definitely recommend buying a SH!
Fantastic, I needed this level of honesty, maybe I’ll go harmonic on in a few years
I have a Matriarch and a Subsequent 25 and started drooling over the Subharmonicon. Some wizards did a great review on it and it looked...easy. I was too proud to mindlessly follow the advice from The Midlife Synthesist (being in midlife myself) and watched just one more video--TIm Shoebridge. Tim is no slouch and his video diary with this unit ran TEN DAYS. If it took 10 days for Tim and Midlife says 'Don't Do It' I'm finally listening. Loopop gave a great workaround using Plaits and that's where I'm staying. With much respect for your fair and unbiased opinions, I thank you.
Thanks for the video! That was what I was looking for! I'm new to synths and this product looks intriguing, but complicated! You saved me some money and frustration! Thanks for that!
hi i am an evening beginner and have ordered my Mother 32 which will arrive today with the mail i also wanted to order the Sub hamonic and saw this video of you i am very happy that you give such a clear description that i will wait until i have some am more experienced with analog synth so great that you are so clear thanks a lot
Great video, thanks, watched it several times and decided to get one! Your video intrigued me, and I wanted the challenge of this beast!
Thank you so much my friend! I hope you have amazing sonic adventures with that wild little bad boy! Happy music making and keep us posted!
That Battle Toads reference was too real.
I am ready for this battletoads synth. It's perfect. I think this will add a bunch of value to my softpop2 and Korg Ms-20 even if it takes me a year to get a handle on it.
I'm a jazz student and noob synthesist looking to know as much possible about synths before pulling the trigger and get my first baby, your channel is teaching me soooooo much about this wonderful world. Keep it up, love from italy
I am so glad that you made this review.
It’s nice to see somebody being honest and open about a synthesizer that I was interested in and now I’m not.
I have a large array of synthesizers in my studio and I also have a lot of them put away inside of a closet.
So I know the frustration that there is that goes behind learning a synthesizer.
But I also know the pleasure that you get once you learn how to use and master your instrument. Although mastering can take many many years and sometimes you never get a chance to master any instrument but just enjoy playing it.
Thank you so much👍🏼 I feel very much the same way, and I kind of feel guilty cause I feel I am using these things at like 15% their real capacity 😅 have an awesome day and I hope to hear from you again!
thank you so much, man; really appreciate your honesty🙏
Thanks so much for watching ❤️
The thing about the Moog Subharmonicon unlike any other synth, its just like a love affair, you stare at it for a while, finally do something, and its strange, yet beautiful. Wouldn't swap it for the world, a truly unique bit of kit
this is so true!
I bought the DFAM, then I ask for the SH + DF and now Im returning them to get the 3 of them and just record everything, with no need of caring that the sound is gone... :))
DIVORCED ENDUCING. Thank you for providing my new favorite adjective
😅✌🏻
Thanks for this perspective. You touched on several points that were niggling in the back of my head after seeing other demo vids. You confirmed my fears and but also deepened my curiosity. If I do get this I now have much more realistic expectations. Thanks!
Hey man, this was a great video. Thank you so much for taking the time to make it, and give us all of the pros and cons before investing in this awesome Moog synth! 😀
Love ur honest n straight and short meaning words
Thanks so much! Appreciate it!
Thanks for the heads up! I was looking at this synth and the Labyrinth to see which one I may purchase. Now, I can definitely discount buying the Subharmonicon. Cheers.
I was so excited to get this and so disappointed that i couldnt get it to go. THANK YOU for calling out that it sounds different every time. Thought I was going crazy!
After a number of aggravating nights, to help with recreating the same sound, I document the number of note steps as I turn the dials of the sequencers and oscillators. Would be nice to have a little readout that shows the number of steps!
What a great video, I really wanted an opinion like yours, after some use, besides the reviews of the synth we've all seen
Thank you so much for this comment! I really appreciate it
Anddddd that settles it. Ill do the dfam and mother combo. A solid honest review. Great job
I'd also add that as an abstract elecrtonic composer...other peoples mud may well be gold for me and vice versa! Atonal staggered ployrhythms that make no 'sense', extreme and abrasive noise, feedback etc..all beautiful in their own way!
🤟🏻🤟🏻
Thank you for sharing my frustration. I struggle with it but love it and some days it sit’s unused because it’s too much to deal with. Mine will stay since I do have the time but yes....it drives you crazy 😎 Great video
Thank you so much bro! I’m glad it found a good home in your hands🤟🏻
And now you must recreate the Battletoads motorcycle level music on it
🤣
I have a Matriarch and I just pluged into midi connection of sub harmonicon with a dumb patch into the clock.
This works great as a complementary VCO and sub VCO (6 VCO and 4 sub VCO and 3 filters) is crazy!
Man I just watched another video with you on the Keystep 37. I've got to say that you are the coolest that I've seen and heard. You seem to be so trustworthy and on the ball. So needless to say after watching this video I had to subscribe to your channel. Thanks again and I'll be watching you later. Be cool!!
Dude! YOU are the coolest! Thank you so much for such kind words, I truly appreciate every one of them! I’ll always try to keep making content you enjoy as much as I enjoy making, and hopefully, it’ll be a long and bumpy ride. Lots of love!
Thank you! I needed to know this.
One easy way I have found to get the melody, harmony and rhythm working well is to whack the tempo up and tune it at high speed. Nobody mentions this but it works a treat
Great tip bro! Thank you for sharing✌🏻
Awesome video! Very helpful! Greatly appreciated
Love this machine. The challenge and discovery process is much more fun, surprising, and rewarding than some of the other "tough eggs" I've tried to crack.
Great video, very informative.
I owned one of these for a month. This review is spot on. It can sound uniquely beautiful, but it’s too much hard work getting there. Not for me
Hi dude! Thanks for watching and sharing. I’m just relieved it wasn’t just me😅 the SH certainly looks innocent on the surface, but you are totally right, it can be very hard work and considerable frustration to get it to work in the traditional sense. See you around!✌🏻
So true about midi, I have such a love hate relationship with this synth.
This!!
In my experience the two synths that had the biggest sweet spots are the Roland Juno 106 and Moog Minimoog. Its hard to make a bad sound with these regardless of settings, and probably explains their popularity and massive influence on other synths.
At 8:24, the sound is far more interesting and experimental than the one before switching the synth off, to my ears!
LOL!
Slap a gritty French House beat under it and you’re away 🔥
Thanks for the warning about the learning curve. Saved me a bunch of money.
What’s wrong with learning?
Thanks for an awesome review! Very well done :)
I have both the SubHarmonicon and the Octatrack. Agree on both. Love both. I also have a DFAM, using the sub harmonicon’s VCO outputs into the DFAM ext audio in. Seems to make it easier to manage. Also just tuning the Main OSC to C. The Midi seems like an afterthought. I love the SubHarmonicon it really added to my creative flow. Of course it is used mainly as a super 303 and sounds great with all my other gear. It’s my first semi modular piece. Good concise video. Subscribed.
Yep,
1. Reset issue. Ive been through that. High and slow learning curve.
End result better feel for SH’s sound.
2. It’s not good to think of it as a monosynth, it really isn’t with 6 oscillates controlled by 2 VCO’s.
Just put in an order for this in local webstore. Watched your video, cancelled the order and saved my money for something more suitable. Thanks!
Thanks so much for mentioning 📢THE TIME FACTOR. You are the voice of reason, and you rightfully crushed my GAS for the Subharmonicon. I still have plenty to explore in my other synths. I subscribed and will keep your channel in my top list. 🍺
Thanks so much🙌🏻🙌🏻
I would appreciate more audio samples of the things you were describing as well. Thanks for the great video! ATB!
Thanks for the warning, I'm to stupid for these kinds of devices so that's one synth less on my "maybe I should get at some point list". But yes, the sound this thing can make is really something and in the right hands this is gold. For me though it would be pearls before swine or just a lump of coal.
Same feeling here bro! I’ve seen Red Means Recording do some amazing improve on it, but it’s just not the style of stuff I like making. I guess I’m just a simple man at heart lol. Thanks for watching and commenting, see you around!
Firstly, great video. Some great points.
It would be interesting to know if anyone else gets ‘sequence loss’ when powering off and on. It’s not something I’ve noticed with mine yet but maybe it depends on what setting you’re using. Perhaps I’m using the defaults it reverts to by accident. I will look into this!
Weirdly in relation to your point 2 I haven’t honestly found it that complex but maybe that’s just how my brain works. It’s not as if I’m particularly bright 😬 Or maybe I just haven’t realised it’s complex yet (argh 😂).
Perhaps a synth to buy because you can see a place for it in your setup and not something to get on a whim but then that’s most synths I guess (no no I just want it so I’m gonna buy it ...).
For context I love it and find I can fit it within a more traditional setup albeit producing more progressive style music than I normally would. I am also writing music purely for my own pleasure so I have no time constraints which could be a big factor as you mentioned.
Keep doing what you do. Always a pleasure.
See the comments above started by Ken Middleton. When this occurs, there's a very good, non-buggy reason.
@@0VRLNDR Thanks I will take a look :) I am actually finding that the sequence buttons appear to reset but that's probably just my imagination ... ! Love the SubH and will update my comment when I've got to the bottom of what's going on. Just got a Mother 32 as well so lots to dig into.
Hi bro! Thanks for watching and sharing a comment! Apparently the “issue” has been solved by someome smarter than I 😅 the SH is a very peculiar machine indeed, but it is wonderful in its own way! Cheers!
Thanks for a very informative video!
I may still end up getting one when I've moved to a bigger cave, but the Hydrasynth gained yet a bigger lead now! ;-)
Thank you so much for watching! The Hydrasynth looks VERY interesting. Even heard a few seasoned synthesists saying it was everything they wanted in that type of synth. The thing is, no one can do what the Subharmonicon does, but I think the question (and the point of my video) is, “do I really want/need that thing that it does so well?”. If it’s your flavour, go for it. Anyway, thank you so much for stopping by and dropping me a line, cheers!
@@MidlifeSynthesist Yeah, the Hydrasynth DO tick all the boxes for me including adding to my humble patchable setup with its cv outputs. Will have to wait a few (?) months whilst we move house though. :-(
thanks for that, great video!
Thanks for watching!! See you around👍🏼
I have not experienced the on/off issue. I almost always take a day or 2 to mess with a patch before recording it and it's always been there. I think I've enjoyed figuring out this device's quirks, this device makes a lot of sense to me, and I can quickly pull up desired results at this point. oddly enough I got rid of the Microfreak for almost all the same reasons and that's like everyone's favorite little synth..... I think certain devices speak to certain people.
Hi, many thanks for this very entertaining overview on the subharmonicon. I am actually getting into synth and I am very attracted by the Moog semimodulars. Following your videos I should opt for the Grandmother. Although sooner or later I’ll probably get the Moog studio as well… 😂 Anyway, all the best for the future, stay safe! Cheers from Germany.
I do not have the problem with it shutting off and losing what I had just made. I've had the same sequence programmed for weeks and I turn it on and it's good to go. Might be worth contacting Moog support.
Really appreciate honest unbiased reviews. I realised my Korg Volca was not what I needed really. So following RUclips reviews I went for a novation circuit tracks. Bit of an expensive mistake. I should have just bought a synth. The tracks isn’t worth selling on for the money they fetch. So going to save and by the micro freak. For someone who knows little about electronic instruments and whose friends that are musicians are acoustic. It’s difficult and expensive trying to get the machine I need. Wish I’d found your channel a few years ago. 🇬🇧
Very well done review.👍
Thank you for watching my friend !
I just discovered you this after i saw someone local selling a subharmonicon at a "ohh, this could be a fun impulse buy" price. You have told me exactly what i needed to know and saved me many hours of frustration, thank you. I get frustrated when my BooG D doesnt make noise so i shall pass on this. Thank you for a review of what i actually needed to hear.
Thanks for sharing this. Even though I fool around with hardware synths for a decade now, I still consider myself a newbie and I often think, I'm the error if something doesn't work as I think it should. Just letting go the "I want to have it like this" and welcoming "let's see what happens" made this machine a lot more enjoyable to me …
Thanks for being the every man synthesist! I rarely buy a piece of gear these days without looking at Loopop, BoBeats, sonicstate and then YOU. Your perspectives are astute and based in real-life example. You're a welcome additional to a handful of gentlemen on here that show us this new gear and you in particular, bring a very practical, down to earth, yet artistic and somewhat philosophical approach.
Thank you so much for that! I am truly humbled and honored by your kind and generous words. You really made my day my friend, hope to hear from you soon! Cheers🤟🏻
@@MidlifeSynthesist It's all you my friend! Wishing you health and success!
Thanks for this. The others reviews come from a place of expert than novice. This is on my list, and the things you discussed is probably the things that I will bang my head against.
This was pretty easy to use. I have had fun with it.
i am so glad to be one of your subs....... thanks
Thank you so much fam! See you around🙌🏻
this channel is dope
Thank you!! I really appreciate it, hope to see you around again👍🏼
Yep. thanks for this. I have 5 hardware synths. . 2 DFAms, Minitaur, Model D and Sub37-- I want to use to create loops and mix in DP10
Mine recreates sequences just fine after being switched off. Always use reset to keep things a bit more predictable. Tuning is rock solid.
I’m no Moog fan but love the SH.
If you want a sequencer that gives you predictable results this won’t do it, and that’s why it’s fantastic.
ah man, thanks for this video. love the sound that comes out of this thing but the problems you mention make it unusable for me. what synth would you recommend that has a similar sound quality but at the same time they are very easyto get into a sweet spot with?.
Hello my friend! Sorry for the delayed response. To be honest, even though you might probably get a very similar "sound" by sequencing and multitracking a mother 32 or a few werkstatts working together, the truth is that the magic of the subharmonicon is in the weird notes and chords that arise when you are tweaking and exploring. It really is a very cool machine to get lost in. But like a said in my review, it takes (for me) way to long to get there. But going back to your question, the sound it very much the "Moog" sound, so I'd look into one of their synths. If you want a sweet spot machine, the Grandmother is pure honey and has the modular taste to it. Hope that helps!
I think it's all about how you approach this machine. If you have an idea in your head and you want to express it with synthesisers, the subharmonicon is not the tool to use to achieve that kind of goal. It's an happy accident machine. Though it's true you have to dig through mud to get the gold. It takes getting used to to make it sound like not a chaotic mess. I think I agree with everything you've said here. But I love this synth. In combination with the Dfam it's amazing in my opinion. Also, record everything is a good idea. You can sample it too. Anyway, good video. Thank you!!
I really enjoy the perspective you offer to music and music gear - I'm such a culprit when it comes to falling for G.A.S and I enjoy your balanced approach. Quite often I get caught up in the influencer end-of-embargo rush of videos about a new piece of gear - which, of course, no one talks about or uses six months later.
Thank you so much! If it helps, I suffer the exact same thing lol! Thank you for your kind words, have an awesome day!
Good stuff MS.👍🏼
You’ve got my attention. Ships as part of sound studio 3 this week. (I have never used a synth. Buying to learn and add sound scapes to home studio.)
The SH is a unique beast. I've had it for over a year now, and it is weird. And in its weirdness, I have discovered its beauty. And it is temporal. No sound is going to remain for long. But it can be tamed. Kind of.
You make valid points for sure. Its a strange synth and it is a wild animal. You are right, there is a lot of trudging thru the trenches before you see the light. And it is glorious when you get a great thing going with it. I don't feel its just a soundscape or generative only box tho. Ever since I have bought it, it seems to find a way into almost all of my tracks on my channel. Sometimes in ways I didn't expect which added life to a jam. I do feel like it would be daunting to have this as my first synth tho, you are right about that. And the first week I had it, I thought I had made a big mistake. But now, I don't know if I would sell it. Thanks for the video, good job. Cheers.
Thank you so much! It really is a unique beast this little Subharmonicon🤟🏻 happy music making!
Great video, and input. I’ve been reluctant to pull the trigger on this beast for the same reasons you mentioned, mainly my lack of patience. Don’t get me wrong, I love to explore, but not willing to spend and hour on a four step sequence.
Seems like the type of synth you need to record/sample when it sounds nice, then just start again! Reminds me of using a modular!
Absolutely!👍🏼
Over 48k subscribers now, 3k then. And still worth re-watching.
Thanks so much! It’s been a long road, hope to keep going a little while longer🤘🏻
I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I still really want one... My takeaway is it's a "happy accident machine" that is better for inspiring new ideas (and different ones than I'd come up with on a traditional instrument) than for adding to existing ones... Does that sound right to you?
That’s it in a nutshell for me👍🏼 great to get out of a rut and get you started on making music “outside of the box”, but a pain to add to a pre existing more traditional arrangement. Trying to get your sequences to “correctly” change notes and keep the harmony together from verse to chorus to bridge is a whole other story😤 If you have the time and patience for it though, it does make some amazing and unexpected harmonies and melodies and it does take you to unexplored musical territory. Thanks for watching my friend!
Thanks or your video. It really looked from other youtube videos that it usually sounds very good. I'm hesitant a little now. My favorite gear is also the Octatrack, so the assumption that I would learn over time is here. Another fact is that I most often play improvised experimental techno, so it could probably work as well.
Awesome! I really believe the subharmonicon is a great instrument for the right person, unfortunately it’s not for everyone, so I’m happy this helped! Happy beatmaking my friend!
This fits my feelings on the Subh to a T. I've had it a couple months now and it's still a mystery.
Lol, I feel you my friend! For me it just suddenly “clicked” after a looooong time with it. Hang in there!
Great to get a long-time user's perspective. All the YT reviews I've seen are positive. I like Tim Shoebridge's review which is also positive but also the most critical :-) I bought one but everything seemed like a one-bar pattern. Just me? I dunno. Ultimately not impressed enough to keep it but great to see Moog trying something new and that some people are enjoying it.
Yup it's deffo not a first or workhorse synth, hopefully though people realise that by just looking at the thing, though like u said the RUclipsr's reviewing it did not dwell on it's shortcomings much at all! - Especially how it can sound really crap until you push through to the good stuff.. which is really good.
One thing i do now is send Sequence and Clock CV out to my Make Noise 0 Coast 1 V/Oct and Gate inputs and that generates some cool patterns and sounds .. i think that's where the Subharmicon really works, in tandem with other modular and sem-modular gear.
Nice video! : )
I greatly appreciate your honest assessment of the SUB.
In truth, I was about to pull trigger on this until I came across your video.
Your review was right on point and I thank you for saving me the grief I would have incurred had I bought it.
Thank you my friend! I just wanted to give a “normal” users perspective in hopes I could help someone like myself not get this synth for the wrong reasons. If it helped you in any way, I did my job lol. Thanks for watching!
As a counter-balance the subh is one of my favourite instruments ever. Don't base your decision on one youtube video...
Order one from a friendly retailer that will let you return it if you're not happy. I think that it's a fairly unique instrument and you need to play with it yourself to see if it works with your and your setup.
I know who it's not for...me. I had one and had every single issue you mentioned, however I was patient and worked with it daily and I was making progress (and learned early on to record things I liked). But I did not enjoy it much and I wished I'd got something different. But some time later, something weird happened with the oscillators and no sound was coming out of either of them (not filters or some setting;it was not working as designed). After a bunch of trouble shooting I came to learn that there had been a few other people with such an issue and it would require some sort of elaborate something which would require tools...I was just short of my return window so I did just that. Got the grandmother instead and I am much happier with that choice. I also discovered that I have almost 0 interest in patching anything to anything, which was another strike against it for me. I do have patches to work with on the grandmother, but I don't mind these as much and it's about as much patching as I care to experiement with. But the subharmonicon is a beautiful sounding instrument so I'm glad some people have worked out how to create enjoyable things with it. I like listening to it. I didn't like working with it myself.
Dude, that must have been such a bummer, subharmonicon dying on you like that. That’s actually pretty scary! Glad you got the grandmother though, I love that synth! And I totally get what you mean about the patching, it’s fun, but it’s definitely not a priority for me right now. Anyway, good to know you at least got a happy ending. Cheers bro! Thanks for sharing!
@@MidlifeSynthesist yes, total bummer. I was prepared to work with it until I got over the hump, but that last issue was more than I wanted to deal with, though I certainly would have if I'd have been past my return period. I've had a couple situations with the grandmother, but those have centered more on recalibration using some download files (something I can more easily wrap my head around) and I chalk those experiences up to learning more about synths in general, since other hardware also has to be recalibrated and retuned periodically.
Nice video, while I agree with all your points I"m not sure I entirely agree with your conclusions, it's difficulty in reproduction of sound is mostly due to all of the different factors in the synth (seq+sub osc+osc) and the sensitivity of each knob (common with Moog synths) - but in your demo of powering off the device and getting a different sound, it looks like the oscillators simply hadn't warmed up or rather in general that their frequency wasn't the same. The sequence, subharmonics, etc. all seemed to be exactly the same. Nothing some pitch info (as you mentioned) to VCO1+2 CV couldn't fix, if waiting a few minutes doesn't resolve it on it's own. (While I haven't noticed this issue with my Subharmonicon, I have noticed with other analog synths that if I use the oscillators before they are warmed up they never sound right until after a power cycle). HTH
Agree it wasn't a rhythm issue it sounded like they went out of tune slightly. Once an oscillator is warm though it doesn't instantly cool down when turned off - this was just an off/on situation so there wouldn't have been any significant temperature change (unless there was an edit?). There is an issue that Moog 'plan to address with firmware' (sometime in 2029 at this rate) with the sequencer tuning pots, they're digital and when the synth is turned on they sometimes only 'know' their position once the pot as been moved. I won't pretend to understand it fully but I suspect if he wiggled each of the sequencer pots without changing the actual position then it would have got back into tune - essentially reminding each of them what they're actually set at.
This is really helpful I have a voyager RME and that really defines the moog sound which is iconic.... I really like the design and concept of the sub h. but it is very hard to find demos where it sounds good to me, the majority sound metallic and thin, Some do sound good ....not saying it’s always terrible......but I was hoping it would sound more like the mother 32......regarding workflow this looks challenging
That’s exactly it. It has a very distinct character and particular workflow. It’s great, just not for everyone, just like cross fit. Cheers mate!
This and the Lyra-8 seem very leftfield and I have seen similar reactions..people have gotten frustrated with it being unable to turn it into a predictable and totally controllable device and have sold it on (often to regret it later!). I think it boils down to two camps of synthesist, those that want to ultimately control the environments it creates and have no leakage (in terms of unwanted sounds or key) and those who dont and will allow for leakage and the machines to do their own thing to a certain extent. The SH does not really fit into the press a button and get the exact result you want box. Personally I dont think that was what it was designed for anyway. Its a learning curve and worth hanging in there for.
You nailed it👍🏼 that’s exactly it. It’s awesome for a certain type of music making, but it is very much it’s own thing, and buying it expecting it to function like “another mono synth” is where some people will have a bad time. I for one have learned to love its idiosyncrasies, but the point of the video was to warn people who might have false expectations for what this thing does in a synth setup. Thanks for sharing my friend! Thanks for stopping by!
I’m trying hard to love it. Only had it a few days so hopefully I’ll have the patience to stick with it. Ditto the DFAM! That’s even harder to get anything good out of it, IME.
If you want something “behaving” as you expect it after a power cycle, I recommend going fully digital. There you can save and recall where you left off. There will always be changes in analogue due to temperature drift and component tolerances.
Nah, not really for the modern stuff. I saw the old polivoks and minimoog could be terrible to (re) tune sometimes. But I had absolutely no problems with the new minimoog for example (even years after, in studio or on stage), and I can say I never had this problem with the OB6 as well (that was released around 2010 or something ?). Even if this one has a digital part for the presets, the signal path is analog.
You are correct about your talking points.
Amazing explanation.
I Liked how you explained it is not wise to be a 1st synth purchase.
Once the user becomes more experienced with synths then this is a good extra addition and requires one to record the sequences to use in live performance.
I love how it sounds but I would not get it straight away. It's going to be an addition down the line of my journey
Thank you for this
Thank you for watching!! Cheers!
Really helpful thanks
Thank you for dropping me a line! Cheers bro!
If you are considering buying the Subharmonicon, you should first consider buying a recent set of modules for VCVRack from Slime Child Audio.
Great vid.
I want the trio, and was wondering which to pick up first …think I’ll get this one last 😬
I'll just try to get it before I am used to regular synthesis. Should make it easier if I start to think in sub oscillations right away.
Hey just came across your channel. I am a long time Moog owner and fan and I really enjoyed this video. The SubH is an incredible instrument and I believe will be one of their classics in years to come. But as you point out it really can be frustrating to use. Now I know this is not very green, but my way around the tuning issues etc is to not turn it off. That is why I have not turned mine off for months and months now. Still a great instrument in my books and can be wonderful for experimentation. But I am finding limits to it.
Nice channel my guy, subbed. I've been loving my Subharmonicon as my first and only synth but it is pretty frustrating sometimes. My biggest issue is a firmware problem that apparently is on all of them. The sequence clock outs' pulses are slightly delayed, as in they send pulses after the note has already played, likely on the falling edge of the clock. It doesn't matter now since I don't have any other modules to trigger other than maths (which makes the Subharmonicon infinitely more useful) but I'd like to see a firmware update soon.
Hi bro! Thanks for your comment and also for believing in the channel! See you again soon, cheers!
You definitely have to have supporting devices around this unit! I agree it's built in midi is garbage and needs a firmware fix! I actually bought the arturia minibrute just to convert the cv to midi and the fact the sequencer can tame both oscillators very well! I didn't scrap this unit because it can do things that no other unit can! I think it's worth the time, because I believe in doing whatever it takes to get the right sound! I am one that almost never uses presets on anything so that speaks for itself! But great advice for this unit! I love it and DFAM, they get used in just about all of my tracks! But I also work with lots of ambient material and have loads of supporting gear! I also agree this should NOT be your first or only device in the Moog semi series as you suggested! Good job man! You earned another sub! Cheers!! Drew
Now I want one even more :)
Give me weird. Give me confusion. Give me unexpected and WTF. It's why I love the DFAM and the Volca Drum. Hell, it's why I love ALL synths. Yes, it can sometimes be frustrating - but it can also be amazing and wonderful. If all a synth does is exactly what you expect of it and nothing more, what's the point? It'd like be having a robot as a partner that mindlessly does your bidding. Fun at first, then boring AF for the rest of time...
That’s an awesome way to look at it bro! ✌🏻
@@MidlifeSynthesist TBH, the DFAM isn't all that confusing - it's more of a unusual take on a drum machine than a unusual take on synthesis itself. But still, I love it.