Whenever I hear people complain about Soyeon's voice, it boils down to "Ugly Pronunciation" or "Annoying Tone." It's never an objective measure like struggling to hold a note, bad belting, vocal straining, or unsupported ranges. Really goes to show how much people want to bring her down. Also, it seems like people apply the rules of English grammar to G-IDLE's songs very often. It's like people forget that writing a song and writing a formal essay use different rules. Songwriters cut word short and abbreviate phrases for the sake of matching the song's tempo and rhythm. No one's listening to a song for how grammatically correct it is, just how the song vibes.
@@baoziday5178 Heck, even most English songwriters and singers make sentences that make no sense and hard to listen to. It's simply their stylistic choice. Soyeon is singing in her secondary language too, as Korean is nothing like English. Her pronunciation is rarely a choice. Singers like Sean Paul mainly speak English, but chooses to add that funky accent to make himself sound the way he does.
Isn't that 'cause most of the fans aren't vocally trained? This happens with all idols where people just declare them as bad singers 'cause they don't sound pleasing. I'm neutral on this 'cause you can't really blame common people for finding a voice unpleasant afterall people listen to songs to enjoy and not analyze the vocals.
@@lemonrosa5931 Not exactly specific groups, but more specific songs. Ring Ding Dong, Likey, ICY, and generally campy songs that are catchy and popular because of their nonsensical but clever wording. It's not even something people think about when listening to songs. IDLE haters just bring up any complaint and claim it as criticism. I've seen how people say Soyeon is "Disrespecting the English language." As if English songwriters and singers don't disrespect it 10x over on a daily.
I think that she wasn’t born with a great voice (some people can sing beautifully naturally) but everyone knows she’s an insanely hard worker, and so even though she might not have the best pipes, her techniques are really good, and she has a great tone. You can tell she puts effort into her singing
kinda crazy how people want wendy to be this "overrated" vocalist so bad because of one off day when she has basically 10+ years worth of great and amazing moments. she'll never be bad im sawrry also adding on the defense of felix, as a stay who has been a fan ever since earlier eras, i saw personally how much deeper his voice got over time. it was already pretty deep during debut when he was 18, and he even risked singing in a higher register during the time (see skz's glow performance). he's one of hell of a baritone, and basically the only one in a group full of people with higher pitched voices. i was genuinely and positively surprised at how he manages to not go off key in spite of this, so it shows he actually tries to make it work with his current skillset.
@@ketakikhobragade7168 everyone who knows kpop well knows her, you can still be popular and talented af. Wendy is definitely not underrated, vocalists like Luna, Haram, Lina, Solji etc are underrated.
Wendy had one bad performance and suddenly shes the most overrated singer in kpop. Thats so unfair, especially when Wendy literally gives her all in majority of her performances. Also for the other idols mentioned in this video, in terms of kpop standards, they are actually good, especially considering their roles as sub vocalists. People are hating for the sake of hating
People need to realize that a few bad performances by Wendy is not the “gotcha” moment they think it is. The difference between Wendy and other artists that get more frequently scrutinized is that there are far more clips of her doing a phenomenal job than there are of her messing up. Even stronger vocalists are going to face struggles when singing something they haven’t practiced in a while. I forget which song it was. It may have been “I Have Nothing” by Whitney Houston. But Jessie J was on a live stream years ago and she was struggling with the song. And it’s a song she’s sung flawlessly in the past. But since her vocal chord muscle memory hadn’t been exposed to that song in a while, it was difficult to sing. So, we have Wendy singing a few songs that are normally even challenging to their original artists, ones that she is not the original artist for (ie doesn’t practice as often as Red Velvet’s music or her solo songs), and this is during a concert when her voice and body have already started tiring from the lengthy time she’s spent exerting herself. She has way more reasons to not give an exceptional performance compared to a lot of people’s faves during encore performances at music award shows. So yeah, the whole “If this was ___, the entire internet would be attacking them” narrative is a bit misguided since they’re not being judged equally (ie most of these slip ups are during encore performances). Wendy has proven time and time again that she is one of the most capable vocalists in currently active KPop groups. She can afford to have a bad performance once in a while because they’re far and few between compared to the ones where she does an amazing job 💙
Also I think Wendy is in a somewhat transitional period, both in terms of her artistry and her voice. Sometimes the road to growth leads through mistakes… which can be easily excused in Wendy’s case😉
@@aintnootherfan This is an interesting thought, what do you mean exactly by transitional period, if you don't mind me asking? Also, my hypothesis is that Kpop fans just have no idea what live singing sounds like anymore. There's no such thing as a perfect live vocal performance, and certainly no such thing as a vocalist who is at their best during every performance of their career. Back when RV used to sing live consistently on music shows, I remember quite a few times when members had voice cracks, but no one batted an eye because there was an understanding that they had proved themselves vocally through consistently good performances over time. Now people are so used to backtrack and lipsyncing that they don't have that perspective, and a couple mistakes seem catastrophic.
Also... if you watch the clip in full, she's playing a game. She takes literally the most difficult section and keeps repeating it transposed half a note higher until her voice gives out/she can no longer hit all the notes. But since people cut the clips part way through, she sounds even more off-key because you don't have the context as a listener to know it's been transposed and she's on about her 4th time going through the same phrase. She sings the full song completely fine. I'd like to see anyone (probably other than some super overlord of singing like Dimash) pull the same thing and sound fine after their 4th or 5th time singing that passage at increasing difficulty levels.
@@aintnootherfanI think so too. If you watch some of her conversation parts on Lee Mujin Service, she makes some references to working on improving her voice with a vocal coach at the moment (there was a big "aren't you good enough already" sort of reaction from Lee Mujin and the producers). She also specifically phrases it so she asks if she can come back once she thinks she has improved enough again. RV's contracts are also up again this year, and the odds of all the girls renewing their group contract AND actually staying active as a group to the extent they have been previously is pretty slim. Irene is 33. Wendy and Seulgi are 30. Joy will be 28 this year, which, along with Irene, will probably be the biggest factor. If they (Joy, Irene, maybe even Yeri) want to transition into acting more, this will be the time do it, not in another 3 years, unfortunately. And for Wendy, it means having to find her place as a soloist, which isn't going to be easy, since right out of the gate she will have to differentiate herself from Taeyeon. SM has used her as their go to ballad singer for years, but her newest EP gives a better idea to the direction it seems she wants to go in, which is probably more stylistic. Now it's just a matter of finding her vocal style for those types of songs as well as having top lines that both fit the song and give her a bit of a challenge. Wendy does not seem like someone who is ever okay with just coasting or taking the easy route.
@@aintnootherfan I actually think this might be true for Twice's Sana as well. Her voice has been extremely questionable lately, but I do think it's because she's been experimenting with her voice to find a healthier placement. If that's true, props to both her and Wendy for commitment to vocal improvement!
I actually love Soyeon's voice subjectively, moving away from technique because I want to, I actually think she sounds really hot. I remember listening to Oh My God for the first time and the second she set "help me, help me" I instantly squealed. So from a subjective perspective, I actually love her voice.
It's ridiculous that the same people who demand live performances later turn their backs on idols for lesser-than-flawless vocals, discouraging them from singing live again because of unavoidable criticism.
saying soyeon is a bad vocalist is crazy for me, my girl sang the super lady intro LIVE every single performance they had, yes, she's not the most skilled vocalist however she's not bad, she's mainly a rapper yet she helps her members every recording session to deliver better vocals, she's amazing and her tone is pretty unique, i love her voice on the abracadabra cover (g)-idle did felix has and amazing deep tone and 3racha as a producing team has really known how to take advantage of his voice and that's why felix's parts in skz songs are usually the most viral ones, lately he has been exploring more his voice for example in his skz record "deep end", you just need to wath the skz recording sessions to see that felix it's not a bad vocalist, and he slays all his parts
People only judge Felix according to title tracks. His whole job in the title tracks is getting the catchy lines that will attract people, which DOES work. Never have i seen him get the same parts he does in a bside bc he actually gets to rap and sing, people are just hateful and lazy to even look more into it
Soyeon has been praised because she KNOWS how to use her voice to her full extend, she is aware of the different tones she can use and she has an addictive voice if you like that style
Wendy is a world class vocalist. The fact that people even suggest her is just nuts. She probably is too young to be in her prime so she will keep surprising us as she gets older. Also amongst all the legendary SM vocalists she is one of the ones who doesn't stay in a safe zone. SHE goes there. All the time.
Yup she's changing and experimenting with different vocal styles in her solo music which she couldn't do in her group music. She didn't suddenly became the worst vocalist like some people claim.
Ive always felt that people have been extra harsh on Wonyoung when it comes to her vocals. Dont get me wrong, she isnt the best but she definitely isnt bad either and has been working on her vocals. If you listen to their recent mr removed videos, youll notice that Wonyoung is pretty stable. From recent concert clips,it seems that Wonyoung is attemping to engage with her diaphragm more which is always a good sign. I personally find her live singing the best in Ive after Liz and Yujin. She has an attractive tone and knows how to use it.
Exactly..... The problem is people just don't want to move on from her Strawberry moon controversy. K pop in general just doesn't wanna accept ive improvement
@@btsismyoxyjin2013The problem is kpop idol don’t improve. Only kpop idols that improve are usually SM idols or idols who hires their own vocal trainers like some Stray Kids members, Jungkook and Eunha from Gfriend/Viviz. Wonyoung is not someone who improved, she still lacks technique and her so called singing is just talking in a baby voice.
@@vixxexo6855 wait does Eunha really have her own vocal trainer now? I used to stan but I haven't really been keeping up with them and that's extremely good news to me because I love her tone 😭
Wendy at her worst is still better than most K-pop main vocalists. I can’t believe that they are dragging her down for one off day when she has 10 years of amazing vocal moments
I have yet to experince a good singer not having a bad day ocassionally. Now it is true that 90% of shows edit the vocals to sounds perfect, so someone that is not used to a trully raw performance might consider it bad by default, but at the same time, people make a huge deal out of one night, as if that proves anything 🙄
i wish people knew just how technically good Soyeon was. She actually isn't even too much of a stylistic vocalist to me. That's just her voice. She is a great example of someone whose ear helped them become amazing vocalists eg(Charlie Puth). The way she uses vocal cry and open mouth singing as she goes high to avoid pulled chest voice is just amazing. We don't rank kpop vocalists anymore but she is closer to an A than a D for sure.
Soyeon is a talented singer but it’s quite clear she hasn’t had any real technical training outside of some basic lessons, she is incredibly overly nasal to the point where it blocks her from becoming better and also doesn’t have a full grasp on breath support. However she does have a great sense of pitch and intonation, and has incredible potential.
It's delusional that people are calling Wendy bad just because she was feeling herself and having fun on her birthday, Love on top is one of the hardest songs to sing in history, even Beyonce almost never sing that song completely live, and even that performance of Wendy sounds better than almost all 4th gen.
They say she's cringe so that makes her bad, i mean Soyeon has far more knowledge about singing than most kpop singers. A vocal coach (katrinika) said "i think she knew about her vocal tone and she's taken her time to learn how to use it in her own way at a very young age..." Soyeon being stylistic is not a problem for me at all.
So glad you mentioned Felix! When he sings in his “normal” singing voice (I’m using normal to describe where most people would consider one’s vocal range), he struggles a bit. He doesn’t support his notes often and it can come out as airy and weak. But in his lower range? The man is insane! Nobody is able to utilize their lower register like he does! And I credit him for a lot of 4th and 5th gen male rappers trying to incorporate using a deeper voice than they can properly support. Felix is a legend and SKZ wouldn’t be the same without him! I’m also going to throw a shoutout to Seungmin and I.N. I think Seungmin really had to step up and take on more vocal responsibilities for the group in 2020 and he’s really been holding down the group’s vocals! He’s not the strongest vocalist in the 4th gen. But he seemingly improves as time passes. And I.N’s really surprised me since late 2021 with how much more consistent his voice has become! I think he’s really stepping up to become lead vocalist material!
Yeah, I think Felix’s natural tone isn’t particularly deep, which you can gauge by observing the position of his larynx. However, I really admire how he’s actively exploring different vocal techniques to find new depths in his singing! It’s fantastic to see him experimenting with his range and pushing his boundaries. When I think of someone in a pop group with a genuinely deep voice, Ken from SB19 comes to mind. His singing voice beautifully mirrors how he speaks, which gives it a wonderfully authentic feel. There are often noticeable signs when someone tries to speak or sing in a deeper voice than their natural range, yet I truly appreciate Felix's efforts. For example, if someone is forcing a deeper tone, you might detect a strain or tension in their voice, which can manifest as a breathy quality or a lack of resonance. They may struggle to hit certain notes, resulting in a sound that doesn’t flow as naturally. Moreover, if you observe their throat or neck, excessive movement or tightness can indicate they’re pushing their voice down unnaturally. This tension can lead to vocal fatigue over time, but it’s impressive to witness Felix actively working on expanding his vocal capabilities. I think Ken is more comfortable in that deeper range; if you listen to their First Take "Gento" performance, you can hear him maintaining that tone throughout most of the song. That’s no easy feat if it’s not a natural fit, as inconsistent tones can easily occur.
Yup some may dislike Soyeon's tone but no one can deny that she has great intonation, there's a lot of idols with really nice sounding voices but they can't stay on pitch to save their lives
Wonyoung love improved and worked hard her vocal skills,she get viral many times on tiktok for her live vocal in the concerts also she sound louder and stable . The People forget wonyoung was sub vocalist and center at 14 yo with ton lines in izone but no hard lines at singing ,now as ive member she get fatletto and high notes sometime in the songs .She dedicated to improved herself every times even a popular producer said she give always efforts in the recording of album and deserve solo album since she can write her own songs.
@@ChloeBx Yes she deserve all her success, i don't get why the kpop fans are trash toward wonyoung and trying called out as overrated when she worked hard since her childhood and passioned to her jobs.
I think is just jealousy. People are insecure and seeing Wony makes them even more insecure, so they attack her no matter what she does @@lavienrosewon8811
As a singer myself, I noticed that Felix hasn't been super invested in vocal technique (at least in terms of singing rather than rapping), but I feel like there's definitely a lot of potential in his voice. I've been following Skz for at least two years now and having so much content to catch up on meant that I was fast-forwarding through their development as idols and singers. Felix has shown a lot of improvement since debut and I know that he'll naturally get better as he starts to release more solo music and find styles outside of Stray Kids that suit him. His range matched with tone is incredible to me, but his preference for rap and the style he usually uses in songs means that he only has basic singing skills. We've seen glimpses of what he can do in Deep End, FNF and Cover Me (and I literally mean glimpses), but if we truly want to make a judgement of his ability, he needs to be singing more and practicing more. There's no need to call it bad vocals if he's barely a vocalist and has more rap performances to his name than anything. His unreleased song Rev It Up is a clear indicator of his current ability and skill. He hasn't been sitting idly, but is priority is not singing right now. Thanks for another great video!
I Don’t Understand Why Netizens Thinks Wendy Is Overrated Just Because 😏 She Made One ☝️ One ☝️ Mistake! Minnie From (G)-Idle Is Way More Overrated Than Wendy, Minnie Can Sing 🎶 But Her High Notes Are Strained! Overrated Main Vocalist In SMTOWN Are Key From SHINee, Key Was Better Than Taemin From 2008 To 2011, 2012 Taemin Become Better And Key Delusional Solo Fans Still Thinks Key Are Better Than Taemin! Max Changmin From TVXQ, He Is Screaming His High Note He May Be A Legendary Vocalist But He Is Still A Weak Vocalist Chenle, Renjun And Kun Are Overrated, All Three Of Them Still Can’t Support And Is Also A Little Embarrassing That RIIZE Sohee And NCT WISH Jaehee Are Better Than Them Even RIIZE Wonbin And RIIZE Seunghan Are Better Than Chenle, Renjun And Kun! Minnie, Key, MAX Changmin, Chenle, Renjun And Kun Are Way More Overrated Than Wendy In Vocals
I am not a Neverland but an Nswer, yet I fully support everything about Soyeon. As of 2024, her recognition should come not just as a vocalist but as a rapper, producer, writer, and composer. She is truly a gem. Since her debut, she has faced a lot of unfair criticism for her vocal tone and appearance. Soyeon is the person who has overcome all of that. And I believe she will indeed continue to grow as a vocalist. Even just praise is not enough for her.
can't lie, my jaw dropped when i saw wendy, i saw those videos recently, but i completely forgot about them quickly and didn't even slightly think less of her skills, singers can have bad performances without being bad, there are so many factors at play 💀
I was also so impressed with Soyeon in the recording of Super Lady video. She knows how to describe what she's looking for, as we saw she demonstrated some exercise techniques and she is also skilled at the pronunciation, she is dealing with about five languages I believe; Korean, Thai, Mandarin Chinese, English and Japanese. She helped Yuqi with her Korean and helped another member with her English. She is a bit perfectionist it seems, but one probably has to be in her position and to get where she is.
i love Wonyoung's voice and vocal, she's overhated for nothing, she can sing in very low voice too specially in my satisfaction. I love Felix's voice and he can sing very well in low tune too, a vocal coach react to his solo song or cover and wow ! i love Soyeon's voice too she sounds good
i was someone who judged ives vocals on that performance but then i saw their encore for i am and wow..they did not deserve the hate at all. thing is, its not surprising that starship groups have capable vocalists, and me having listened a lot to boyfriend and monsta x as well as wjsn and being a fan of sistar, i dont know why i assumed otherwise. theyre definitely not a company who would just debut nonsingers. its the 4th gen bias i guess
I know you say it and so many of of us fans of yours say it, but even IF your favorite vocalist is not perfect technically, it doesn't mean you have to enjoy them or love their sound any less! Wendy is a phenomenal vocalist, and when I see her clips in your videos I'm given shivers and just shake my head in awe. But I don't actually love Red Velvet's music, so I don't really get to experience her prowess very much because of that. Does that mean she's any less of a powerhouse? Of course not! And the same logic goes the other way - enjoy what you enjoy! Acknowledging the flaws doesn't mean you care about them any less or that you hate them. It's just being realistic and not tying emotions in with honest commentary. And what's really cool is that none of these idols are beyond improving! Sooo many kpop fans think that honest criticism means you're bashing them or "hating" on them, but we improve by learning our weaknesses and overcoming them. Critique is NOT bashing, and you do a wonderful job of honest critique every week! I hope your final exams went really well for you; thanks for another great video!
honestly i love ryujins voice sm! i love when she sings in songs like her solo, run away, or any other cover. i believe she has more potential but just doesn't get the vocal lines of their songs. i personally love her tone and find it soothing actually.
Its about time we realized Soyeon knows what she's doing. I love her voice and tone for raps the super lady rap while short is so awesome. Also definitely should be a part 2 to this. I feel like so many other idols get hate for their vocals when they aren't bad but they aren't good. I think a big problem is that people don't hate on these idols because of the low vocal standard but just cause they want to.
Soyeon demonstrates a grasp of basic singing techniques, evident from her behind-the-scenes moments guiding other members in vocal production. She emphasizes proper vocal projection, as seen in her advice to Yuqi to not use her throat during "Super Lady" rehearsals. Soyeon's distinct sound reflects her desire to stand out in the industry, though it may not appeal to everyone (hence, "bad vocals") 😊
I’m obsessed w Soyeons voice as an international fan. Her vocal tone is honestly very refreshing. She’s truly a great growing vocalist. With every comeback I see how she tweaks things to fit with her techniques!
So about Wendy, 1st Beyoncé has absolutely sang Love On Top all the way through live. At the 2011 MTV awards she is even sang it while pregnant. (I don't know what backtracks have to do with anything when Wendy was missing notes. Live or with a backtrack, Wendy's issue was a pitch issue.) Love On Top is an incredibly difficult song and Wendy is a great singer. However she should've picked a different song or transposed L.O.T. to fit her range.
I love this video, and thank you so much for defending Soyeon. In a future video could you touch on VCHA's vocal prowess currently as you did for Kiss Of Life?
I'm just going to comment the same thing I did on the encore video you made about 2 weeks ago because I pretty much feel the same way. The only thing I disagree with in this video is that being a bad vocalist is justifiable if the idol is going in dance + stage presence. I disagree. The only time that's acceptable in my opinion is if they are a great rapper. You have to do something good with your voice. I'm tired of Main Dancer, Sub Vocal/Sub Rappers + Visuals in groups. If you are amazing at dancing cool, be in a dance crew or be a backup dancer. People don't go on Spotify to listen to your amazing dancing, but your voices. It's like Xiumin said in NCT Lastart, "No matter how good you are in dancing, if you're not a good singer, you don't look talented."
Exactly like people always cry about soyeon and Lisa vocal like OK but one of them is a great dancer ( Lisa) and other one is really good and they both have great stage presents and one of them is a great rapper(soyeon) and other is good and still people dare to credit their singing whil that's not even there job whil there are some idol who can't even sing or rapp and it's OK for them just because they not in a famous group
@@ana-xx6tn Soyeon I can understand, Lisa I kind of disagree with. Soyeon is a good rapper so who cares if she can't sing but Lisa is a good dancer but rapping, to me, is just slightly above average so I think it would be good if she improved vocally. I'm tired of idols who are Main Dancers but Sub Vocals or Sub Rappers and Visuals and that's it. And if you're a Sub Vocal at least be the best Sub Vocal possible like Chanyeol from EXO. To be honest, idk why Chanyeol is only a Sub Vocal when technically speaking he is a better vocalist than Xiumin and Suho but he's also a good rapper. He doesn't even use the excuse of being a good rapper to exclude vocals so when the bare minimum of people who can only do 1/3 and 99% that one thing is dance, there's a problem.
Wonyoung is a better vocallist than Sakura. Soyeon is the real allrounder. Felix is a 5 star michelin. Wendy probably too tired carrying the whole gen 3 gg vocal.
Yeah the salty hybe stans made SM stans their main villain and since Wendy was having a comeback right after she was at the front line to take all their bullets.
I mean, yall have to be on their shoe. I used to be so annoyed at SM stans hyping their fav vocal like crazy and whenever it's on vocal topic, SM stan act like no one can outsing their fav. But soon after, I got into SM group and guys, yall SM stan are not exaggerating about SM vocal. They deserve to be hype more lol.
Thank you for making a common sense point about Soyeon! I've said many times people confuse whether or not they like someone's voice for whether or not they're talented. Soyeon's singing voice is not at all my taste, but I'll defend her to the corner of the earth when it comes to her vocals because she is objectively talented whether I like her sound or not
Hey, idk if you’re still going strong on the kpop train, but if not, I’d like to suggest a vid idea: analysing the vocals of the new pop it girls: Tyla, Sabrina Carpenter, Tate McCrae, Victoria Monet, Coco Jones etc.
It's laughable that people question Wendy's abilities. She's one of the only few artists who we can confidently say is an inborn vocalist even way before she trained under SM (2years btw), she was capable enough to debut with strong vocals and as the day progresses Wendy has tapped into different skills to where she started in musicals which had helped her even more vocally, and for her to be questioned about her skills is a move to downgrade her mastery to lower her to the new girlies standard with 0 skills and are just privileged to debut. And about that one little slip of a vocal she had which isn't even a flaw as she tried one of the most vocally challenging songs to ever exist, she was aware and got on live to give a rendition of the song which was another proof that Wendy is a professional and she is one of the only few K-pop vocalist that the industry should cherish.
I don't think anyone requested but she deserves to be here. Cause some people are severely underestimating her for her one mistake in a very hard song.
I'd like to say that idol don't need to be strong vocalist if they can rap: they can still have their own parts in the songs and not bring down the group with their abilities in using their voice. In my opinion idols have to know how to dance because their performances always includes it (choreo don't need to be strong but just suitable for idols so they don't strugle a lot with) AND sing/rap because they perfom songs and have to know how to use their voices.
People probably think that Wendy sounds "less stable" because she's actually singing live and not lipsynching the entire thing or having an absurd amount of editing done in post production. That is one of the biggest issues with the normalcy of so-called "perfect vocals" and "eating cds" aka not actually singing or so much backing track and editing that they're basically not there. People just need to calm the fuck down.
Some people actually have forgotten what singing with movements sound like. They are really comparing it with encores and the official studio versions.
The fact people bring down Wendy vocal skills just because she fail to twerck (and personally i didn't found her twercking bad) is CRAZY 🤯 i mean did those personne have lost their mind ? it's like questioning Jhope dancing skills or RM rap skills just because their vocal are underdevelopped 🤦🏻♀️
Hey, just a correction, it’s not twerking it’s bacardi, while I did appreciate her trying to do Bacardi, she really didn’t do it well (coming from a South African)
Soyeon I love her voice. Its like Bjork or other alternative singers. But that's my preference. Gwen stefani and Stevie nicks arent technically great singers but have a way with words and flair
People are really out of their minds! When I watched Wendy's birthday videos I saw nothing wrong, I mean, I have been having vocal training classes for years and could never sing those songs, so just the fact that she can sing them "well" specially with such great confidence, is already such indicator of how well her singing is! Because mistakes do happen and it is normal! Also, she has nothing to prove to anyone because we all know how good she is, and maybe it's because some people were expecting too much, were expecting perfection from a HUMAN BEING who was just having a fun moment with her fans on her birthday...
I get mocking RV is wrong, but BTS isn't a 'mid' group. They (arguably) have one of the strongest rap lines in all of K-pop, especially in 3rd Gen. Also, their vocal line, though not perfect, are definitely better than average and have lots of potential.
@@tjsquibbofficial They have a great rap line and a great dance line, but vocally, they are indeed mid (even below that). Jungkook is a decent vocalist, Taehyung isn't bad either, but Jin and especially Jimin are underwhelming. BTS doesn't have the worst vocals in KPOP, but they are definitely mid.
@@ericgabriel3774 I'd say compared to most of the 3rd Gen's Boy Groups, they are one of the stronger groups, or they at least have amazing potential. All 4 of them could be powerhouses easily in a lot of groups. Like, they all can belt and it sounds amazing when they do it. They all (especially V) have incredible range as well which a lot of 3rd Gen Male Idols lack.
@@tjsquibbofficial You are overestimating them by a lot. Noone in BTS "belts well" like you claim to be. Ur standards are low. Idols that belt well are Taeyeon, Lily, the EXO vocal line, etc. U can quickly realize that noone in BTS is even close to their level vocally. Like I already said, BTS isn't the worst group in Kpop when it comes to vocals, but they definitely aren't good either. 2 decent vocalists and 2 underdeveloped vocalists are not what I consider good. And I don't think they aren't good compared to other 3rd gen bgs either. They already aren't good compared to 3rd gen ggs, who on average aren't as good vocally as 3rd gen bgs. I don't know many 3rd gen bgs. Those I know well are Exo, SVT, and NCT. Noone in BTS would be a Main Vocalist in any of these groups. Jungkook and V would be Lead Vocalists in all of them. Jin would be a Lead Vocalist in SVT. Jimin wouldn't be Lead in any. Other 3rd gen bgs I don't know well are Pentagon, Sf9, and BTOB, and all of these have at least one vocalist who's miles better than Jungkook. They are definitely mid.
@@ericgabriel3774 Stay delusional I guess then. Cause they are def much stronger at belting than most 4th Gen Idols and are better vocalists than a lot of 2nd/3rd Gen Groups (i.e GOT7, BigBang).
People questioned Wendy's skill just bcs she doesnt sound like she used to. Please, she had musical drama last year and comeback, and also concerts. She may get exhausted but she kept pushing herself by singing Love on Top. I bet y'all beloved bad vocalists may ruin their vocals if they got schedule like Wendy, or even worse they cannot talk. 😂
@@shinigagamimi lol. Someone who can reach that low, despite being comfortable with their midrange, is a bass, albeit a bass who can sing baritone. And besides, you claiming he's a baritone when you've so clearly said he's a tenor-like timbre on your first comment is inconsistent af for someone claiming to know about voices. Also, where have you ever heard him sing in his midrange compared to his low that you claim he's more comfortable in that range? You can't fool me. I'm a baritone myself, and the low notes are a dead giveaway that he's bass. Misinformation, my ass. YOU stop your misinformation.
@@shinigagamimi basses can be bright if they chose to. Besides, as I said, I'm a baritone. I CAN go as low as he does, but not with as much volume and apparent ease. When I go that low, my voice pretty much becomes air, and that's beside the fact that I'm choir trained. I've tried multiple times. Not all basses can reach the first octave, as well, so it's not a reliable basis of whether someone is indeed bass or not. Basses can, however, sing in the second octave with ease which baritones find hard to do. If anything, I would think he's an untrained bass and he can go lower if he so choose.
I love Soyeon she's does so much in the group and is extremely talented in many ways. I do think she can sing but I can see if other people don't like her tone but she's never off like most kpop idols as the lady has skills.
I'm a bit shocked you're praising Felix's singing while using clips of him talk-rapping at best. I love Felix but when we look at videos of him actually attempting vocal parts he clearly struggles a lot I don't think he's developed any technique, he seems to just sing intuitively, so he's usually shaky and pitchy. I think he would be great if he started vocal lessons because his tone (his best asset) is so nice
tysm for this vid! more ppl should understand that just because your not an extraordinary vocalist doesn't mean your a bad one so many ppl used to bash on ive bcz they "can't sing", but they can sing comfortably within their range. so im glad you put wonyoung i love her voice sm. same with ryujin. i love when she sings in songs like her solo, or any other cover. i believe she has more potential but just doesn't get the vocal lines of their songs. i personally love her tone and find it soothing. all these idols are actually okay enough in terms of vocals and its odd how ppl think otherwise.
I’ve been at Ive’s concert in California and I was actually surprised about wonyoung vocals, cuz she was the one of the few of them singing live and the pitch and stability were really nice
The reason why i came to channel was to check if he defended wendy for her slip ups in birthday party and yes he did 😭 yes we needed someone to talk about this
See, this is what I love about your channel! Really appreciate how you balance your more "critical" videos with stuff like this that also highlights good vocals, or reminds us to think about vocal performances in a more nuanced way. I was just thinking it'd be interesting to get your take on idols with unique vocal tones/timbres that you personally enjoy, but I think you sort of answered that already with Soyeon haha. Great stuff!
Let’s say the truth once and for all!! After the the mid or even a bit before the end of the 3rd gen era… Groups are all about VISUALS they don’t give a damn about the voices….. sadly some idols who can are lost because in their groups they’re not the best visuals. I’ve listen to Korean music before the 1st gen existed… and I feel that the end is soon !!
This is why im always confused when toxic fearnots drag IVE's vocals to bring up lsf because like??? They're really not in the same level at all 😂 And I don't Stan either groups but the few times I have heard IVE sing live, it's never terrible so I get confused where sudden attacks on their vocals are coming from
@@Sooya_Luver I was on a post about about lsf live vocals and a lot of Korean fans were dragging the group. Like I felt so bad but then all of a sudden a random fan was like, "well, at least they sing better than IVE, that group can't even hold a note." I was like, huh??? They got really bashed after saying that, lol. It was an English comment, too
@@baoziday5178 lol 😂. And that’s how you kinda start a fanwar but I Stan both groups and I would they’re good vocalists but not the best vocalists imo.
@@Sooya_Luver it honestly makes me sad when the criticism against lsf starts becoming hate but when that stan said that, the sadness went away fr. Cause, why are you trying to start beef? And, from what I've heard of them singing live, Yunjin sounds alright sometimes and I can't remember if it was Kazuha or Chaewon who also sounded okay
@@baoziday5178 Yeah, like I used to defend them but sometimes I still do but I rlly js can’t anymore. And there is a video on Yunjin vocals and how she is not 4th gen best vocalist.
Some of those Wendy concert moments make me cringe, but people are crazy to use this as evidence that she's overrated. I think they're just bitter fans of people who have NEVER been able to sing. They've spent the last decade being jealous of Wendy, and were just waiting in the shadows for a chance to attack her.
I remember the clip going around of Wendy attempting the water challenge at that same concert…all around it just wasn’t the best day for her performance wise (whoever asked her to do love on top AND the water challenge is her real opp tho)
Wendy talks about how she feels like she's off-pitch on the bts for WYH recordings. I didn't get it until now. I mean, yeah, she was off in that concert (and probably some other times as well). Doesn't mean she's a bad vocalist, just means she's human and that she has bad days sometimes. wtf is wrong with people
I'm really curious what your thoughts are about XG's vocals (and maybe rapping) if you have any opinions on any of their skills! :) I know nothing about vocals at all but I love learning about them! Thank you so much for always making videos that anyone can understand and learn from!
People are just so used to listening to studio versions or "live" versions that are edited as f, they forget that live vocals, especially while dancing and moving, aren't perfect most of the time.
wendy literally can outsing half of the kpop industry yet some lesserafim fans have the AUDACITY to trash on her vocals saying their favs are better😂 the level of delusion
In Ryujin case, its not that she is very bad at singing, her tone and ITZY usual music range are complete mismatched. She sounds good in her own music, but if you expect her to sing as high like Yeji in many of ITZY's song, of course she cant. Same with Felix, it's all in tone and range, tho honestly, he's a K-idol rapper even his position is in the dance team, why would anybody expect him to be splendid in singing? He can sing enough as of right now since he doesnt even get much line that needs a challenging technique to deliver. He even sing live most of the time and stable with it.
Wendy at her worst is still better than more than 50% of K-pop main vocalists. So, they all can try, but they can never drag her down vocally LOL
Fr
You'll be surprised to see people saying she's on the same level as lesserafim. It's terrible out there.
This is exaggerated as hell tbh😂😂, but it is not your fault.
@@RP-dp8lo how is it exaggerated? Can you name 10 active kpop vocalists who are better than her?
Well said 🤣🤣
Wendy had one bad day and they RAN with it 😭
RIGHT😭
Whenever I hear people complain about Soyeon's voice, it boils down to "Ugly Pronunciation" or "Annoying Tone." It's never an objective measure like struggling to hold a note, bad belting, vocal straining, or unsupported ranges. Really goes to show how much people want to bring her down.
Also, it seems like people apply the rules of English grammar to G-IDLE's songs very often. It's like people forget that writing a song and writing a formal essay use different rules. Songwriters cut word short and abbreviate phrases for the sake of matching the song's tempo and rhythm. No one's listening to a song for how grammatically correct it is, just how the song vibes.
Yes, they always criticise (g)-idle for their grammar in songs but when other groups do it, it's cute and quirky
Really? What other groups do they praise? I’m genuinely asking because from what I’ve seen Gidle gets defended for it
@@baoziday5178 Heck, even most English songwriters and singers make sentences that make no sense and hard to listen to. It's simply their stylistic choice. Soyeon is singing in her secondary language too, as Korean is nothing like English. Her pronunciation is rarely a choice.
Singers like Sean Paul mainly speak English, but chooses to add that funky accent to make himself sound the way he does.
Isn't that 'cause most of the fans aren't vocally trained? This happens with all idols where people just declare them as bad singers 'cause they don't sound pleasing. I'm neutral on this 'cause you can't really blame common people for finding a voice unpleasant afterall people listen to songs to enjoy and not analyze the vocals.
@@lemonrosa5931 Not exactly specific groups, but more specific songs. Ring Ding Dong, Likey, ICY, and generally campy songs that are catchy and popular because of their nonsensical but clever wording.
It's not even something people think about when listening to songs. IDLE haters just bring up any complaint and claim it as criticism. I've seen how people say Soyeon is "Disrespecting the English language." As if English songwriters and singers don't disrespect it 10x over on a daily.
Wonyoung is not the best vocalist but she is not as bad as people say she is. She always sings her parts really well and stays on pitch.
she is not even bad lol.
I found out that she handles falsetto better than yujin which surprised me.
Her expression in singing is so good.
Her parts are my favourite most of the time in their songs
I think that she wasn’t born with a great voice (some people can sing beautifully naturally) but everyone knows she’s an insanely hard worker, and so even though she might not have the best pipes, her techniques are really good, and she has a great tone. You can tell she puts effort into her singing
kinda crazy how people want wendy to be this "overrated" vocalist so bad because of one off day when she has basically 10+ years worth of great and amazing moments. she'll never be bad im sawrry
also adding on the defense of felix, as a stay who has been a fan ever since earlier eras, i saw personally how much deeper his voice got over time. it was already pretty deep during debut when he was 18, and he even risked singing in a higher register during the time (see skz's glow performance). he's one of hell of a baritone, and basically the only one in a group full of people with higher pitched voices. i was genuinely and positively surprised at how he manages to not go off key in spite of this, so it shows he actually tries to make it work with his current skillset.
Human is much more capable at remembering something bad rather than good and that is a sad reality tbh.
She isn't overrated cuase not a lot of people know her
@@ketakikhobragade7168 everyone who knows kpop well knows her, you can still be popular and talented af. Wendy is definitely not underrated, vocalists like Luna, Haram, Lina, Solji etc are underrated.
idk it hasn’t been off day recently she’s recently been cutting off but she def doesn’t deserve hate for it like what
@@ketakikhobragade7168 she's not overrated cause she is as good as her reputation suggests.
Wendy had one bad performance and suddenly shes the most overrated singer in kpop. Thats so unfair, especially when Wendy literally gives her all in majority of her performances. Also for the other idols mentioned in this video, in terms of kpop standards, they are actually good, especially considering their roles as sub vocalists. People are hating for the sake of hating
and she's one of the few kpop idols who still sings live in music shows and delivers... while others get comfy with lip sync
People need to realize that a few bad performances by Wendy is not the “gotcha” moment they think it is. The difference between Wendy and other artists that get more frequently scrutinized is that there are far more clips of her doing a phenomenal job than there are of her messing up. Even stronger vocalists are going to face struggles when singing something they haven’t practiced in a while. I forget which song it was. It may have been “I Have Nothing” by Whitney Houston. But Jessie J was on a live stream years ago and she was struggling with the song. And it’s a song she’s sung flawlessly in the past. But since her vocal chord muscle memory hadn’t been exposed to that song in a while, it was difficult to sing.
So, we have Wendy singing a few songs that are normally even challenging to their original artists, ones that she is not the original artist for (ie doesn’t practice as often as Red Velvet’s music or her solo songs), and this is during a concert when her voice and body have already started tiring from the lengthy time she’s spent exerting herself.
She has way more reasons to not give an exceptional performance compared to a lot of people’s faves during encore performances at music award shows.
So yeah, the whole “If this was ___, the entire internet would be attacking them” narrative is a bit misguided since they’re not being judged equally (ie most of these slip ups are during encore performances).
Wendy has proven time and time again that she is one of the most capable vocalists in currently active KPop groups. She can afford to have a bad performance once in a while because they’re far and few between compared to the ones where she does an amazing job 💙
Also I think Wendy is in a somewhat transitional period, both in terms of her artistry and her voice.
Sometimes the road to growth leads through mistakes… which can be easily excused in Wendy’s case😉
@@aintnootherfan This is an interesting thought, what do you mean exactly by transitional period, if you don't mind me asking?
Also, my hypothesis is that Kpop fans just have no idea what live singing sounds like anymore. There's no such thing as a perfect live vocal performance, and certainly no such thing as a vocalist who is at their best during every performance of their career. Back when RV used to sing live consistently on music shows, I remember quite a few times when members had voice cracks, but no one batted an eye because there was an understanding that they had proved themselves vocally through consistently good performances over time. Now people are so used to backtrack and lipsyncing that they don't have that perspective, and a couple mistakes seem catastrophic.
Also... if you watch the clip in full, she's playing a game. She takes literally the most difficult section and keeps repeating it transposed half a note higher until her voice gives out/she can no longer hit all the notes. But since people cut the clips part way through, she sounds even more off-key because you don't have the context as a listener to know it's been transposed and she's on about her 4th time going through the same phrase. She sings the full song completely fine. I'd like to see anyone (probably other than some super overlord of singing like Dimash) pull the same thing and sound fine after their 4th or 5th time singing that passage at increasing difficulty levels.
@@aintnootherfanI think so too. If you watch some of her conversation parts on Lee Mujin Service, she makes some references to working on improving her voice with a vocal coach at the moment (there was a big "aren't you good enough already" sort of reaction from Lee Mujin and the producers). She also specifically phrases it so she asks if she can come back once she thinks she has improved enough again. RV's contracts are also up again this year, and the odds of all the girls renewing their group contract AND actually staying active as a group to the extent they have been previously is pretty slim. Irene is 33. Wendy and Seulgi are 30. Joy will be 28 this year, which, along with Irene, will probably be the biggest factor. If they (Joy, Irene, maybe even Yeri) want to transition into acting more, this will be the time do it, not in another 3 years, unfortunately. And for Wendy, it means having to find her place as a soloist, which isn't going to be easy, since right out of the gate she will have to differentiate herself from Taeyeon. SM has used her as their go to ballad singer for years, but her newest EP gives a better idea to the direction it seems she wants to go in, which is probably more stylistic. Now it's just a matter of finding her vocal style for those types of songs as well as having top lines that both fit the song and give her a bit of a challenge. Wendy does not seem like someone who is ever okay with just coasting or taking the easy route.
@@aintnootherfan I actually think this might be true for Twice's Sana as well. Her voice has been extremely questionable lately, but I do think it's because she's been experimenting with her voice to find a healthier placement. If that's true, props to both her and Wendy for commitment to vocal improvement!
She did sound rough during Love on Top, but my God. One bad vocal day in years of singing? People are way too ruthless.
I actually love Soyeon's voice subjectively, moving away from technique because I want to, I actually think she sounds really hot. I remember listening to Oh My God for the first time and the second she set "help me, help me" I instantly squealed. So from a subjective perspective, I actually love her voice.
in dark x-file her voice is so hot
@@chishiy4 that "yeah, I'm crazy for you. Kiss me" AAAAGGHSJWIEHEJKWOWBDJF I literally suffocated 😩✋️
This is a great way to describe it actually, hot. But she always has this hot aura about herself so that combined with that voice aaaa mother
@@karenj1933 I have had this running joke with myself and some other Nevies, we call her "Daddy Soyeon". It's just because we all love our Lion Queen
@@Kais_Peaches Father, mother, she's everything tbh 🥵 She deserves the world
Idk but wonyoung‘ voice is very attractive to me seriously I’ve needs her voice
Girly did an 180 from how IZ*ONE utilized her voice, and she sounds so amazing
@@migu8328 fr starship may sucks but at least they let wony use her healthy voice!!
Yes 💕😭she has very beautiful tone and girly is taking her vocal lessons seriously ❤
Her talking voice is enuf to slay me
@@johnsthetic ikr she has dedication
It's ridiculous that the same people who demand live performances later turn their backs on idols for lesser-than-flawless vocals, discouraging them from singing live again because of unavoidable criticism.
saying soyeon is a bad vocalist is crazy for me, my girl sang the super lady intro LIVE every single performance they had, yes, she's not the most skilled vocalist however she's not bad, she's mainly a rapper yet she helps her members every recording session to deliver better vocals, she's amazing and her tone is pretty unique, i love her voice on the abracadabra cover (g)-idle did
felix has and amazing deep tone and 3racha as a producing team has really known how to take advantage of his voice and that's why felix's parts in skz songs are usually the most viral ones, lately he has been exploring more his voice for example in his skz record "deep end", you just need to wath the skz recording sessions to see that felix it's not a bad vocalist, and he slays all his parts
People only judge Felix according to title tracks. His whole job in the title tracks is getting the catchy lines that will attract people, which DOES work. Never have i seen him get the same parts he does in a bside bc he actually gets to rap and sing, people are just hateful and lazy to even look more into it
You KNOW I was ready to hear about wonyong. Soyeon too, she’s amazing
Soyeon has been praised because she KNOWS how to use her voice to her full extend, she is aware of the different tones she can use and she has an addictive voice if you like that style
Wendy is a world class vocalist. The fact that people even suggest her is just nuts. She probably is too young to be in her prime so she will keep surprising us as she gets older. Also amongst all the legendary SM vocalists she is one of the ones who doesn't stay in a safe zone. SHE goes there. All the time.
Yup she's changing and experimenting with different vocal styles in her solo music which she couldn't do in her group music. She didn't suddenly became the worst vocalist like some people claim.
@@RiswjyV yess
Ive always felt that people have been extra harsh on Wonyoung when it comes to her vocals. Dont get me wrong, she isnt the best but she definitely isnt bad either and has been working on her vocals. If you listen to their recent mr removed videos, youll notice that Wonyoung is pretty stable. From recent concert clips,it seems that Wonyoung is attemping to engage with her diaphragm more which is always a good sign. I personally find her live singing the best in Ive after Liz and Yujin. She has an attractive tone and knows how to use it.
Exactly..... The problem is people just don't want to move on from her Strawberry moon controversy. K pop in general just doesn't wanna accept ive improvement
@@btsismyoxyjin2013or comes from her haters, and they really like to spread that narrative.
Imo, another member in IVE who needs to improve their vocal skills is Gaeul..
@@btsismyoxyjin2013The problem is kpop idol don’t improve. Only kpop idols that improve are usually SM idols or idols who hires their own vocal trainers like some Stray Kids members, Jungkook and Eunha from Gfriend/Viviz. Wonyoung is not someone who improved, she still lacks technique and her so called singing is just talking in a baby voice.
@@vixxexo6855 wait does Eunha really have her own vocal trainer now? I used to stan but I haven't really been keeping up with them and that's extremely good news to me because I love her tone 😭
Wendy at her worst is still better than most K-pop main vocalists. I can’t believe that they are dragging her down for one off day when she has 10 years of amazing vocal moments
Wendy in those clips just sound as her voice didn't get enough rest. Maybe she got a cold. I think she was practicing this sounds a lot to this live.
That’s actually very much possible😉
SM approved her birthday concert a bit last minute, I'm guessing she worked herself out preparing on such short notice
I have yet to experince a good singer not having a bad day ocassionally. Now it is true that 90% of shows edit the vocals to sounds perfect, so someone that is not used to a trully raw performance might consider it bad by default, but at the same time, people make a huge deal out of one night, as if that proves anything 🙄
i wish people knew just how technically good Soyeon was. She actually isn't even too much of a stylistic vocalist to me. That's just her voice. She is a great example of someone whose ear helped them become amazing vocalists eg(Charlie Puth). The way she uses vocal cry and open mouth singing as she goes high to avoid pulled chest voice is just amazing. We don't rank kpop vocalists anymore but she is closer to an A than a D for sure.
Delulu
@@Wendyyyyyy21 cry abt it
Soyeon is a talented singer but it’s quite clear she hasn’t had any real technical training outside of some basic lessons, she is incredibly overly nasal to the point where it blocks her from becoming better and also doesn’t have a full grasp on breath support. However she does have a great sense of pitch and intonation, and has incredible potential.
@@DeeDeeDeeeee i respect that.
Soyeon from g-idle?? I personally never liked her voice its very nasally for me, Minnie sounds the best to me in the group💕
It's delusional that people are calling Wendy bad just because she was feeling herself and having fun on her birthday, Love on top is one of the hardest songs to sing in history, even Beyonce almost never sing that song completely live, and even that performance of Wendy sounds better than almost all 4th gen.
they are mostly nasty lesserafim fans 😂 and its funny given their idols cannot carry a tune to save their lives
Not almost, she os better than the entirety of 4th gen.
They say she's cringe so that makes her bad, i mean Soyeon has far more knowledge about singing than most kpop singers. A vocal coach (katrinika) said "i think she knew about her vocal tone and she's taken her time to learn how to use it in her own way at a very young age..." Soyeon being stylistic is not a problem for me at all.
So glad you mentioned Felix! When he sings in his “normal” singing voice (I’m using normal to describe where most people would consider one’s vocal range), he struggles a bit. He doesn’t support his notes often and it can come out as airy and weak. But in his lower range? The man is insane! Nobody is able to utilize their lower register like he does! And I credit him for a lot of 4th and 5th gen male rappers trying to incorporate using a deeper voice than they can properly support. Felix is a legend and SKZ wouldn’t be the same without him!
I’m also going to throw a shoutout to Seungmin and I.N. I think Seungmin really had to step up and take on more vocal responsibilities for the group in 2020 and he’s really been holding down the group’s vocals! He’s not the strongest vocalist in the 4th gen. But he seemingly improves as time passes. And I.N’s really surprised me since late 2021 with how much more consistent his voice has become! I think he’s really stepping up to become lead vocalist material!
The times you mentioned are the times, where they switched to another vocal coach (the same Baekhyun goes to.).
Yeah, I think Felix’s natural tone isn’t particularly deep, which you can gauge by observing the position of his larynx. However, I really admire how he’s actively exploring different vocal techniques to find new depths in his singing! It’s fantastic to see him experimenting with his range and pushing his boundaries.
When I think of someone in a pop group with a genuinely deep voice, Ken from SB19 comes to mind. His singing voice beautifully mirrors how he speaks, which gives it a wonderfully authentic feel.
There are often noticeable signs when someone tries to speak or sing in a deeper voice than their natural range, yet I truly appreciate Felix's efforts. For example, if someone is forcing a deeper tone, you might detect a strain or tension in their voice, which can manifest as a breathy quality or a lack of resonance. They may struggle to hit certain notes, resulting in a sound that doesn’t flow as naturally.
Moreover, if you observe their throat or neck, excessive movement or tightness can indicate they’re pushing their voice down unnaturally. This tension can lead to vocal fatigue over time, but it’s impressive to witness Felix actively working on expanding his vocal capabilities.
I think Ken is more comfortable in that deeper range; if you listen to their First Take "Gento" performance, you can hear him maintaining that tone throughout most of the song. That’s no easy feat if it’s not a natural fit, as inconsistent tones can easily occur.
Yup some may dislike Soyeon's tone but no one can deny that she has great intonation, there's a lot of idols with really nice sounding voices but they can't stay on pitch to save their lives
My mom loves her voice XD
Wonyoung love improved and worked hard her vocal skills,she get viral many times on tiktok for her live vocal in the concerts also she sound louder and stable .
The People forget wonyoung was sub vocalist and center at 14 yo with ton lines in izone but no hard lines at singing ,now as ive member she get fatletto and high notes sometime in the songs .She dedicated to improved herself every times even a popular producer said she give always efforts in the recording of album and deserve solo album since she can write her own songs.
Wonny is one of the hardest working idols ever, she's beautiful and smart and she keeps on improving
@@ChloeBx
Yes she deserve all her success, i don't get why the kpop fans are trash toward wonyoung and trying called out as overrated when she worked hard since her childhood and passioned to her jobs.
I think is just jealousy. People are insecure and seeing Wony makes them even more insecure, so they attack her no matter what she does @@lavienrosewon8811
As a singer myself, I noticed that Felix hasn't been super invested in vocal technique (at least in terms of singing rather than rapping), but I feel like there's definitely a lot of potential in his voice. I've been following Skz for at least two years now and having so much content to catch up on meant that I was fast-forwarding through their development as idols and singers. Felix has shown a lot of improvement since debut and I know that he'll naturally get better as he starts to release more solo music and find styles outside of Stray Kids that suit him.
His range matched with tone is incredible to me, but his preference for rap and the style he usually uses in songs means that he only has basic singing skills. We've seen glimpses of what he can do in Deep End, FNF and Cover Me (and I literally mean glimpses), but if we truly want to make a judgement of his ability, he needs to be singing more and practicing more. There's no need to call it bad vocals if he's barely a vocalist and has more rap performances to his name than anything.
His unreleased song Rev It Up is a clear indicator of his current ability and skill. He hasn't been sitting idly, but is priority is not singing right now.
Thanks for another great video!
Thank you for mentioning Ryujin and Wonyoung. I think they have both improved vocally. People hating on Wendy’s vocals is absolutely wild.
I kind of found it embarrassing that a certain fandom really tried to jump on the wendy vocal hate train so quickly
call them out, lesserafim DEAF and delusional fans😂
You ain't fooling no one, you just wanted to talk about Wendy and you know what? I would've done the same
Wendy: *Makes a mistake once*
Netizens: She's Overrated
I Don’t Understand Why Netizens Thinks Wendy Is Overrated Just Because 😏 She Made One ☝️ One ☝️ Mistake! Minnie From (G)-Idle Is Way More Overrated Than Wendy, Minnie Can Sing 🎶 But Her High Notes Are Strained! Overrated Main Vocalist In SMTOWN Are Key From SHINee, Key Was Better Than Taemin From 2008 To 2011, 2012 Taemin Become Better And Key Delusional Solo Fans Still Thinks Key Are Better Than Taemin! Max Changmin From TVXQ, He Is Screaming His High Note He May Be A Legendary Vocalist But He Is Still A Weak Vocalist Chenle, Renjun And Kun Are Overrated, All Three Of Them Still Can’t Support And Is Also A Little Embarrassing That RIIZE Sohee And NCT WISH Jaehee Are Better Than Them Even RIIZE Wonbin And RIIZE Seunghan Are Better Than Chenle, Renjun And Kun!
Minnie, Key, MAX Changmin, Chenle, Renjun And Kun Are Way More Overrated Than Wendy In Vocals
I didn’t read the comments and got the shock of my life seeing Wendy here znsjsjsjs- 😭😭😭
I am not a Neverland but an Nswer, yet I fully support everything about Soyeon. As of 2024, her recognition should come not just as a vocalist but as a rapper, producer, writer, and composer. She is truly a gem. Since her debut, she has faced a lot of unfair criticism for her vocal tone and appearance. Soyeon is the person who has overcome all of that. And I believe she will indeed continue to grow as a vocalist. Even just praise is not enough for her.
can't lie, my jaw dropped when i saw wendy, i saw those videos recently, but i completely forgot about them quickly and didn't even slightly think less of her skills, singers can have bad performances without being bad, there are so many factors at play 💀
I was also so impressed with Soyeon in the recording of Super Lady video. She knows how to describe what she's looking for, as we saw she demonstrated some exercise techniques and she is also skilled at the pronunciation, she is dealing with about five languages I believe; Korean, Thai, Mandarin Chinese, English and Japanese. She helped Yuqi with her Korean and helped another member with her English. She is a bit perfectionist it seems, but one probably has to be in her position and to get where she is.
i love Wonyoung's voice and vocal, she's overhated for nothing, she can sing in very low voice too specially in my satisfaction. I love Felix's voice and he can sing very well in low tune too, a vocal coach react to his solo song or cover and wow ! i love Soyeon's voice too she sounds good
i was someone who judged ives vocals on that performance but then i saw their encore for i am and wow..they did not deserve the hate at all. thing is, its not surprising that starship groups have capable vocalists, and me having listened a lot to boyfriend and monsta x as well as wjsn and being a fan of sistar, i dont know why i assumed otherwise. theyre definitely not a company who would just debut nonsingers. its the 4th gen bias i guess
Comparing to many other encores stages, Wonyoung sounds fine and Soyeon's vocal tone sounds beautiful to me especially in super lady and fate❤❤
I know you say it and so many of of us fans of yours say it, but even IF your favorite vocalist is not perfect technically, it doesn't mean you have to enjoy them or love their sound any less!
Wendy is a phenomenal vocalist, and when I see her clips in your videos I'm given shivers and just shake my head in awe. But I don't actually love Red Velvet's music, so I don't really get to experience her prowess very much because of that. Does that mean she's any less of a powerhouse? Of course not! And the same logic goes the other way - enjoy what you enjoy! Acknowledging the flaws doesn't mean you care about them any less or that you hate them. It's just being realistic and not tying emotions in with honest commentary. And what's really cool is that none of these idols are beyond improving! Sooo many kpop fans think that honest criticism means you're bashing them or "hating" on them, but we improve by learning our weaknesses and overcoming them. Critique is NOT bashing, and you do a wonderful job of honest critique every week!
I hope your final exams went really well for you; thanks for another great video!
Thank you for these words!
I did well, thank you!😉
honestly i love ryujins voice sm! i love when she sings in songs like her solo, run away, or any other cover. i believe she has more potential but just doesn't get the vocal lines of their songs. i personally love her tone and find it soothing actually.
Its about time we realized Soyeon knows what she's doing. I love her voice and tone for raps the super lady rap while short is so awesome.
Also definitely should be a part 2 to this. I feel like so many other idols get hate for their vocals when they aren't bad but they aren't good. I think a big problem is that people don't hate on these idols because of the low vocal standard but just cause they want to.
Soyeon demonstrates a grasp of basic singing techniques, evident from her behind-the-scenes moments guiding other members in vocal production. She emphasizes proper vocal projection, as seen in her advice to Yuqi to not use her throat during "Super Lady" rehearsals. Soyeon's distinct sound reflects her desire to stand out in the industry, though it may not appeal to everyone (hence, "bad vocals") 😊
I’m obsessed w Soyeons voice as an international fan. Her vocal tone is honestly very refreshing. She’s truly a great growing vocalist. With every comeback I see how she tweaks things to fit with her techniques!
So about Wendy, 1st Beyoncé has absolutely sang Love On Top all the way through live. At the 2011 MTV awards she is even sang it while pregnant. (I don't know what backtracks have to do with anything when Wendy was missing notes. Live or with a backtrack, Wendy's issue was a pitch issue.) Love On Top is an incredibly difficult song and Wendy is a great singer. However she should've picked a different song or transposed L.O.T. to fit her range.
I love this video, and thank you so much for defending Soyeon. In a future video could you touch on VCHA's vocal prowess currently as you did for Kiss Of Life?
I'm just going to comment the same thing I did on the encore video you made about 2 weeks ago because I pretty much feel the same way.
The only thing I disagree with in this video is that being a bad vocalist is justifiable if the idol is going in dance + stage presence. I disagree. The only time that's acceptable in my opinion is if they are a great rapper. You have to do something good with your voice. I'm tired of Main Dancer, Sub Vocal/Sub Rappers + Visuals in groups. If you are amazing at dancing cool, be in a dance crew or be a backup dancer. People don't go on Spotify to listen to your amazing dancing, but your voices. It's like Xiumin said in NCT Lastart, "No matter how good you are in dancing, if you're not a good singer, you don't look talented."
Exactly like people always cry about soyeon and Lisa vocal like OK but one of them is a great dancer ( Lisa) and other one is really good and they both have great stage presents and one of them is a great rapper(soyeon) and other is good and still people dare to credit their singing whil that's not even there job whil there are some idol who can't even sing or rapp and it's OK for them just because they not in a famous group
@@ana-xx6tn Soyeon I can understand, Lisa I kind of disagree with. Soyeon is a good rapper so who cares if she can't sing but Lisa is a good dancer but rapping, to me, is just slightly above average so I think it would be good if she improved vocally. I'm tired of idols who are Main Dancers but Sub Vocals or Sub Rappers and Visuals and that's it. And if you're a Sub Vocal at least be the best Sub Vocal possible like Chanyeol from EXO. To be honest, idk why Chanyeol is only a Sub Vocal when technically speaking he is a better vocalist than Xiumin and Suho but he's also a good rapper. He doesn't even use the excuse of being a good rapper to exclude vocals so when the bare minimum of people who can only do 1/3 and 99% that one thing is dance, there's a problem.
😎😎
Agreed. Either be a good vocalist or a rapper. Only being a dancer/visual doesn't cut it.
Wonyoung is a better vocallist than Sakura. Soyeon is the real allrounder. Felix is a 5 star michelin. Wendy probably too tired carrying the whole gen 3 gg vocal.
Wendy was hated by people whose faves were getting hate for bad vocals
Yeah the salty hybe stans made SM stans their main villain and since Wendy was having a comeback right after she was at the front line to take all their bullets.
I mean, yall have to be on their shoe. I used to be so annoyed at SM stans hyping their fav vocal like crazy and whenever it's on vocal topic, SM stan act like no one can outsing their fav.
But soon after, I got into SM group and guys, yall SM stan are not exaggerating about SM vocal. They deserve to be hype more lol.
Saying that wendy is not a good vocalist is just calling for attention
Please also bring dedicated boy group rankings
I’ll think about that for sure!😉
@@aintnootherfaninclude 5th gen boygroups too i beg especially zb1 and riize
BTOB should be included
@@n.137 btob always slay tbh❤️🔥
Thank you for making a common sense point about Soyeon! I've said many times people confuse whether or not they like someone's voice for whether or not they're talented. Soyeon's singing voice is not at all my taste, but I'll defend her to the corner of the earth when it comes to her vocals because she is objectively talented whether I like her sound or not
Hey, idk if you’re still going strong on the kpop train, but if not, I’d like to suggest a vid idea: analysing the vocals of the new pop it girls: Tyla, Sabrina Carpenter, Tate McCrae, Victoria Monet, Coco Jones etc.
I can't stand Tate 😭😭 idk why
It's laughable that people question Wendy's abilities. She's one of the only few artists who we can confidently say is an inborn vocalist even way before she trained under SM (2years btw), she was capable enough to debut with strong vocals and as the day progresses Wendy has tapped into different skills to where she started in musicals which had helped her even more vocally, and for her to be questioned about her skills is a move to downgrade her mastery to lower her to the new girlies standard with 0 skills and are just privileged to debut. And about that one little slip of a vocal she had which isn't even a flaw as she tried one of the most vocally challenging songs to ever exist, she was aware and got on live to give a rendition of the song which was another proof that Wendy is a professional and she is one of the only few K-pop vocalist that the industry should cherish.
Bro, I just love Wonyoung's voice, it's just like her: fancy, chic, expensive, beautiful, delicate, soft
who's request Wendy to add in here? they're so crazy and stupid.
I don't think anyone requested but she deserves to be here. Cause some people are severely underestimating her for her one mistake in a very hard song.
I'd like to say that idol don't need to be strong vocalist if they can rap: they can still have their own parts in the songs and not bring down the group with their abilities in using their voice.
In my opinion idols have to know how to dance because their performances always includes it (choreo don't need to be strong but just suitable for idols so they don't strugle a lot with) AND sing/rap because they perfom songs and have to know how to use their voices.
People probably think that Wendy sounds "less stable" because she's actually singing live and not lipsynching the entire thing or having an absurd amount of editing done in post production. That is one of the biggest issues with the normalcy of so-called "perfect vocals" and "eating cds" aka not actually singing or so much backing track and editing that they're basically not there. People just need to calm the fuck down.
Some people actually have forgotten what singing with movements sound like. They are really comparing it with encores and the official studio versions.
The fact people bring down Wendy vocal skills just because she fail to twerck (and personally i didn't found her twercking bad) is CRAZY 🤯 i mean did those personne have lost their mind ? it's like questioning Jhope dancing skills or RM rap skills just because their vocal are underdevelopped 🤦🏻♀️
what are you talking about?
Hey, just a correction, it’s not twerking it’s bacardi, while I did appreciate her trying to do Bacardi, she really didn’t do it well (coming from a South African)
@@notevenfunny_ she just tried it for fun in her own birthday party. She's allowed to be goofy and not perfect in a dance style she's never done.
@@RiswjyV I know, just correcting OP since they called it twerking when it’s not
@@notevenfunny_ oh I see.
Soyeon I love her voice. Its like Bjork or other alternative singers. But that's my preference. Gwen stefani and Stevie nicks arent technically great singers but have a way with words and flair
People are really out of their minds! When I watched Wendy's birthday videos I saw nothing wrong, I mean, I have been having vocal training classes for years and could never sing those songs, so just the fact that she can sing them "well" specially with such great confidence, is already such indicator of how well her singing is! Because mistakes do happen and it is normal!
Also, she has nothing to prove to anyone because we all know how good she is, and maybe it's because some people were expecting too much, were expecting perfection from a HUMAN BEING who was just having a fun moment with her fans on her birthday...
I saw a army mocking reveluvs who calls wendy one of the best vocalist
They come to mock other idols vocals while stanning a mid group like bts
I get mocking RV is wrong, but BTS isn't a 'mid' group. They (arguably) have one of the strongest rap lines in all of K-pop, especially in 3rd Gen. Also, their vocal line, though not perfect, are definitely better than average and have lots of potential.
@@tjsquibbofficial They have a great rap line and a great dance line, but vocally, they are indeed mid (even below that).
Jungkook is a decent vocalist, Taehyung isn't bad either, but Jin and especially Jimin are underwhelming.
BTS doesn't have the worst vocals in KPOP, but they are definitely mid.
@@ericgabriel3774 I'd say compared to most of the 3rd Gen's Boy Groups, they are one of the stronger groups, or they at least have amazing potential. All 4 of them could be powerhouses easily in a lot of groups. Like, they all can belt and it sounds amazing when they do it. They all (especially V) have incredible range as well which a lot of 3rd Gen Male Idols lack.
@@tjsquibbofficial You are overestimating them by a lot.
Noone in BTS "belts well" like you claim to be. Ur standards are low.
Idols that belt well are Taeyeon, Lily, the EXO vocal line, etc.
U can quickly realize that noone in BTS is even close to their level vocally.
Like I already said, BTS isn't the worst group in Kpop when it comes to vocals, but they definitely aren't good either.
2 decent vocalists and 2 underdeveloped vocalists are not what I consider good.
And I don't think they aren't good compared to other 3rd gen bgs either.
They already aren't good compared to 3rd gen ggs, who on average aren't as good vocally as 3rd gen bgs.
I don't know many 3rd gen bgs.
Those I know well are Exo, SVT, and NCT.
Noone in BTS would be a Main Vocalist in any of these groups.
Jungkook and V would be Lead Vocalists in all of them.
Jin would be a Lead Vocalist in SVT.
Jimin wouldn't be Lead in any.
Other 3rd gen bgs I don't know well are Pentagon, Sf9, and BTOB, and all of these have at least one vocalist who's miles better than Jungkook.
They are definitely mid.
@@ericgabriel3774 Stay delusional I guess then. Cause they are def much stronger at belting than most 4th Gen Idols and are better vocalists than a lot of 2nd/3rd Gen Groups (i.e GOT7, BigBang).
People questioned Wendy's skill just bcs she doesnt sound like she used to. Please, she had musical drama last year and comeback, and also concerts. She may get exhausted but she kept pushing herself by singing Love on Top. I bet y'all beloved bad vocalists may ruin their vocals if they got schedule like Wendy, or even worse they cannot talk. 😂
Stan Mamamoo stan talent.
Ps- 🖕to all losers who pounced on hate train against Wendy.
Not a fan of Felix (or SKZ) but are people really expecting him to belt? The guy is bass.
@@shinigagamimi yes, basses can belt but there are other members who can do that. Also, your voice range doesn't care about your timbre. Bffr.
@@shinigagamimi lol. Someone who can reach that low, despite being comfortable with their midrange, is a bass, albeit a bass who can sing baritone. And besides, you claiming he's a baritone when you've so clearly said he's a tenor-like timbre on your first comment is inconsistent af for someone claiming to know about voices.
Also, where have you ever heard him sing in his midrange compared to his low that you claim he's more comfortable in that range? You can't fool me. I'm a baritone myself, and the low notes are a dead giveaway that he's bass. Misinformation, my ass. YOU stop your misinformation.
@@shinigagamimi basses can be bright if they chose to. Besides, as I said, I'm a baritone. I CAN go as low as he does, but not with as much volume and apparent ease. When I go that low, my voice pretty much becomes air, and that's beside the fact that I'm choir trained. I've tried multiple times. Not all basses can reach the first octave, as well, so it's not a reliable basis of whether someone is indeed bass or not. Basses can, however, sing in the second octave with ease which baritones find hard to do.
If anything, I would think he's an untrained bass and he can go lower if he so choose.
I love Soyeon she's does so much in the group and is extremely talented in many ways. I do think she can sing but I can see if other people don't like her tone but she's never off like most kpop idols as the lady has skills.
He's back❤❤🎉
I'm a bit shocked you're praising Felix's singing while using clips of him talk-rapping at best. I love Felix but when we look at videos of him actually attempting vocal parts he clearly struggles a lot
I don't think he's developed any technique, he seems to just sing intuitively, so he's usually shaky and pitchy. I think he would be great if he started vocal lessons because his tone (his best asset) is so nice
I love Soyeons voice
starting the list with Soyeon is already shocking, but ending it with wendy is even crazier! they all really don't deserve the slander
tysm for this vid! more ppl should understand that just because your not an extraordinary vocalist doesn't mean your a bad one
so many ppl used to bash on ive bcz they "can't sing", but they can sing comfortably within their range. so im glad you put wonyoung i love her voice sm.
same with ryujin. i love when she sings in songs like her solo, or any other cover. i believe she has more potential but just doesn't get the vocal lines of their songs. i personally love her tone and find it soothing.
all these idols are actually okay enough in terms of vocals and its odd how ppl think otherwise.
I’ve been at Ive’s concert in California and I was actually surprised about wonyoung vocals, cuz she was the one of the few of them singing live and the pitch and stability were really nice
The reason why i came to channel was to check if he defended wendy for her slip ups in birthday party and yes he did 😭 yes we needed someone to talk about this
See, this is what I love about your channel! Really appreciate how you balance your more "critical" videos with stuff like this that also highlights good vocals, or reminds us to think about vocal performances in a more nuanced way. I was just thinking it'd be interesting to get your take on idols with unique vocal tones/timbres that you personally enjoy, but I think you sort of answered that already with Soyeon haha. Great stuff!
Let’s say the truth once and for all!! After the the mid or even a bit before the end of the 3rd gen era… Groups are all about VISUALS they don’t give a damn about the voices….. sadly some idols who can are lost because in their groups they’re not the best visuals. I’ve listen to Korean music before the 1st gen existed… and I feel that the end is soon !!
I never understood why people hate on Wonyoung's vocals. I like the sound of her voice!
Didn't ever think anyone on this list had "bad vocals" compared to other far worst "singers" I have seen and heard these days...
Soyeon definitely has a strong body to her voice, like i almost think she might be better than Minnie
YASSSSS. Appreciate it so much that you're defending for themm!!!
OMG ... seriously. I cant believe anyone would that Wendy's vocal ability needs work. Some ppl just need to have their hearing check
This is why im always confused when toxic fearnots drag IVE's vocals to bring up lsf because like??? They're really not in the same level at all 😂
And I don't Stan either groups but the few times I have heard IVE sing live, it's never terrible so I get confused where sudden attacks on their vocals are coming from
I’ve never knew that toxic fearnots drag Ive’s vocals. 😯
@@Sooya_Luver I was on a post about about lsf live vocals and a lot of Korean fans were dragging the group. Like I felt so bad but then all of a sudden a random fan was like, "well, at least they sing better than IVE, that group can't even hold a note." I was like, huh??? They got really bashed after saying that, lol. It was an English comment, too
@@baoziday5178 lol 😂. And that’s how you kinda start a fanwar but I Stan both groups and I would they’re good vocalists but not the best vocalists imo.
@@Sooya_Luver it honestly makes me sad when the criticism against lsf starts becoming hate but when that stan said that, the sadness went away fr. Cause, why are you trying to start beef? And, from what I've heard of them singing live, Yunjin sounds alright sometimes and I can't remember if it was Kazuha or Chaewon who also sounded okay
@@baoziday5178 Yeah, like I used to defend them but sometimes I still do but I rlly js can’t anymore. And there is a video on Yunjin vocals and how she is not 4th gen best vocalist.
been waiting for this!!!
2:05 her voice in fate sounds so good and matches the vibe of the song perfectly
Some of those Wendy concert moments make me cringe, but people are crazy to use this as evidence that she's overrated. I think they're just bitter fans of people who have NEVER been able to sing. They've spent the last decade being jealous of Wendy, and were just waiting in the shadows for a chance to attack her.
Yup it's true.
I literally hear Wendy crack and I was like:"OMG she's singing". I don't get people being this dramatic over a voice crack
WENDY and bad vocals in one sentence??!??? Literally a cr ime 💀
I remember the clip going around of Wendy attempting the water challenge at that same concert…all around it just wasn’t the best day for her performance wise (whoever asked her to do love on top AND the water challenge is her real opp tho)
Part 2 pls!!
Thanks for saying about wendy and wony btw!! 🩵🩷
Wendy is definitely tired during those clips.
Wendy talks about how she feels like she's off-pitch on the bts for WYH recordings. I didn't get it until now. I mean, yeah, she was off in that concert (and probably some other times as well). Doesn't mean she's a bad vocalist, just means she's human and that she has bad days sometimes. wtf is wrong with people
Wendys voice always sounds weaker when she loses a lot of weight (which she did for her recent comeback) so it's unfair to use that against her.
I'm really curious what your thoughts are about XG's vocals (and maybe rapping) if you have any opinions on any of their skills! :) I know nothing about vocals at all but I love learning about them! Thank you so much for always making videos that anyone can understand and learn from!
You need showcase wonyoung live vocal in concerts,she sound stable and well
People are just so used to listening to studio versions or "live" versions that are edited as f, they forget that live vocals, especially while dancing and moving, aren't perfect most of the time.
I’m tired of people like twice and red velvet using too much vocal mixing and post production on their what’s supposed to me “killing voice”
reminder that ive sang 4 other performances live that day, people just focused on that 1 stage.
yes omg i love soyeon voice
wendy literally can outsing half of the kpop industry yet some lesserafim fans have the AUDACITY to trash on her vocals saying their favs are better😂 the level of delusion
In Ryujin case, its not that she is very bad at singing, her tone and ITZY usual music range are complete mismatched. She sounds good in her own music, but if you expect her to sing as high like Yeji in many of ITZY's song, of course she cant. Same with Felix, it's all in tone and range, tho honestly, he's a K-idol rapper even his position is in the dance team, why would anybody expect him to be splendid in singing? He can sing enough as of right now since he doesnt even get much line that needs a challenging technique to deliver. He even sing live most of the time and stable with it.
Wonyoung has a nice tone in my opinion. She's quite stable as well.
Very good video
even wendy's bad days firmly land her amidst the best vocalists in the industry
Wow wendy's "adult" is so cool. My fav ost..hehe