Perhaps, given their ability to breakdown other forms of life, Fluidic Space is a giant living organism and the Undine are like sentient anti-bodies. It would explain why they are so hostile to outside lifeforms, seeing them as hostile invaders into their space.
Except Species 8472 attacked Voyager in normal space so this is face plants with excessive force. I recall the first encounter Species 8472 appeared and began attacking out of no where. Voyager did not have ability to jump dimensions. Though do not remember if they reverse engineered 8472 technology to jump into it, although not sure why they would.
Maybe they’re like the hyper-aggressive immune systems of the children in “Unnatural Selection.” “Oh, you want to invade? We’ll swat your ass from across the room, Pulaski.”
What if Fluidic Space is actually a very large complex organism? From the various images it looks quite similar to an Extracellular Matrix,which is mostly organic in our universe. This would help explain away the gravity issue as the pressure created by the "super organism's" circulatory system. And the fact that Species 8472 are so xenophobic could be because they act as the immune system of this lifeform, as their A&P and behavior resembles our own immune system. Anyway, great video, keep up the good work!!😁
I can see that working. Maybe the only way to stop Species 8472 would've been to somehow get in contact with the life-form filling their pocket universe. That might have been interesting, depending on how it's handled, but the voyager show runners couldn't think of something like that. Species 8472 could've been for Voyager what the Borg was for TNG. But no such luck.
This could even sync with TOS episode where Enterprise encounters a 11,000 mile long single cell organism, and theorize that if it isn't destroyed, it could divide, divide, etc, until federation life would be nothing more than a virus within it.
@@kevingooley9628 That's interesting. Have to go back and watch that. Also, what about the episode of TNG, where the scientists genetically engineered kids with "active immune systems"? It would be nice to get some kind of callback to that episode, while they are figuring out what they are dealing with.
Organic doesn't necessarily mean it is living or came from something living. in chemistry the label organic technically applies to any compound that has carbon in it.
Yeah, this is a HUGE misunderstanding by a large portion of humanity. There are organics on Titan (methane seas) but they're probably not biological in nature or origin. Fluidic space might just be a particularly dense carbon dioxide nebula (though it definitely appears to be a liquid, so probably not).
Absolutely true, 4Dmike, but Star Trek expanded what organic materials are in their universe. Silica-based life, not lust carbon-based life, are considered organic. Also, just about any complex chemicals that become dynamic enough to "be alive" as well. Star Trek uses science fiction organic, which is expanded to include things outside of what actual science currently defines it as. Some scientific universes consider super-complex molecular-parts nano-machines that perfectly replicate life to be organic as they crossed from machine to life form as they became part of bigger entities. Also, in Star Trek, that one silica-based monster (TOS) that caused people to fight each other was considered inorganic life, so it's also not completely consistent. How solid definitions are, well, are completely up to the current writers.
the definition you would get only from a particularly stupid chemistry teacher their are MANY compounds that contain carbon which are't classified as organic and some compounds that contain oxygen but not carbon that are considered organic its a good rule of thumb but isn't universally true. also words have multiple meanings and one definition is "something alive or something that came from something alive"
@@FirstArchon uh, no, the DEFINITION of "organic compound" is one that contains carbon. Therefore if something doesn't have carbon it is, by definition, not organic. Similarly something which contains carbon is, again by definition, organic.
Given that Star Trek has established beings that could be charitably described as Eldritch (the Q one of the more ubiquitous) it's entirely possible that Fluidic Space is actually part of one such being.
Personally i find the idea of a dimension being a cosmic-sized living creature or filled with several such creatures fascinating. Maybe it could even be the origin of some of the larger entities seen throughout the franchise, like that amoeba from TOS that seemed to come out of nowhere
In the Voyager episode "Unimatrix Zero", Seven's boyfriend says that he is "on a Borg ship patrolling the border of fluidic space" and that he was very far away. This pretty much means that Fluidic Space is a region within the normal Star Trek Universe, somewhere in the general vicinity of the Milky Way galaxy; unless the Borg have an extragalactic reach. My guess is that FS is a carbon rich nebula somewhere in Milky Way's galactic halo, possibly one of the nearby dwarf galaxies. Of course the real reason for all the inconsistencies is that CBS assigned all of their best science fiction writers to DS9, and Voyager was written by the C or D team.
I disliked fewer episodes of Voyager than DS9. Not a great way to measure a series, perhaps, but within the overall arc of 'getting home', Voyager had several decent mini-arcs that were quite satisfying, such as the Hirojen and their dying culture, as well as 8472. The who 'You are the Sisko' bullshit of DS9 and the pseudo-religious battle between the good and bad prophets was just annoying in a universe up until that point (The ST franchise) dominated by scientific (sci-fi-ish) understanding of natural phenomena and never adequately explained.
Its clearly a seperate space as Voyager has to enter it via a special entrance, but in one episode they talk about a passage where very few borg ships seem to be, and that is where the Undine come out of fluidic space in to normal space.
You’re very entertaining, even when trying to understand a fictional universe. Often people latch onto some phrase or passage from “Canon” and insist on using it ad nauseam in building up their vision...but you ask “what about this? Maybe that? Or this other way” , a series of questions each with its own possible outcomes. That takes skill. And that’s what makes this video fun to listen to. 👍🏼
I'm starting to think that every science fiction fan read that book. I wish I saw the movie first... I would have loved the movie if I saw it before I read the book. They didn't use the ear fish... blasphemy!
The Undine where one of the best additions to Trek lore Voyager came up with IMO. I wonder, what if those "coral like" planetoids are actually hollow on the inside to some extend, and this is where the Undine culture resides in? Also I think the concept of them being placed in a pocket universe by the Q is a nice explanation. Personally I think they just evolved in this alien dimension, probably weren't always alone in there. Maybe they had to defend against a terrifying enemy and succeeded. Hence why they where able to repel the Borg fairly effortlessly, since their culture developed to be always ready to defend itself (1 Bioship destroying 25 Borg Cubes single handed, was it?) And as we learned later in Voyager, they are not beyond reason, so maybe with enough time and effort some form of peaceful relationship with them could be established... Also I enjoyed this video very much! Keep up the great work!!
I disliked them being shown as reasonable. I know Star Trek is supposed to be idealistic but the Undine were depicted as xenophobic considering every thing that isn't them a disease. It should've been like attempting diplomacy with the Nazis.
@@GoroScornshard Well, Nazis were at times very diplomatic, pulling off some stunts considered genius. They could be very polite and charming, but they had a habit of ending their treaties unilaterally, like Trump.
3:45: You're confusing fluidic space with fluid. It doesn't collapse because it's not matter; it's space. It's not space that is occupied by material; it's material that IS space. They'd just call it a nebula if it were a nebula.
In the episode "Scorpion Pt 2" B'elanna clearly states: "This is not space - it's matter". I think this line was purposely inserted to distinguish between an alternate dimension consisting of space with fluidic properties vs fluid matter. Sensors were further able to determine that it was an organic fluid, which would indicate the presence of a molecular structure and carbon atoms. This is clearly matter. By definition, matter occupies space. Even if that happens to be all the space available, gravitation would still act on these molecules.
The Sparkle Zone I wonder if that’s true. Here’s my thinking, if you can experiment and make a pocket of empty space (like popping a balloon) and then the material would creep into that pocket then it looks like the material filling that space.
The Sparkle Zone I’m probably way wrong with this, but let me tell you what I thought it was. A large body of material is a nebula, a galactic body of material is a fluidic expanse, and a never ending body of material is fluidic space.
I think this was just thought too much upon. If you look at the physics of our universe, after the big bang it grew outward spherically with the expansion slowing while the universe was cooling down. Then it will collapse in on itself. It just takes a very long time. And our universe is not empty. Scientists generally agree that the space between objects in space are filled with varying concentrations of dark matter. I guess that in Fluidic Space, dark matter is replaced by organic compounds. This might even stop the universe from collapsing in on itself, because light hydrocarbons in motion tend to repel each other, so Fluidic Space might have achieved some kind of equilibrium. What could be inferred is that Fluidic Space is slightly warmer than own universe, probably with a temperature slightly above 161°C, because this is the boiling point of Methane, the smallest organic molecule. Ethane would be liquid at this temperature, while Pentane would be frozen solid. Maybe Fluidic Space is just a pocket universe that only contains very few elements, with a great abundance of hydrogen, Carbon and Oxygen. It would also account for the vastly different technology of the Undine, if they only had limited access to metals and other elements on the periodic table.
I believe the gameplay footage is from Star Trek Online, which is also good. It's an MMORPG kinda like World Of Warcraft, but... not. A lot of love went into making it, vis a vis the gameplay going to Fluidic Space. Also still not sure how much volume it has.
Armada and the sequel were great. But personally, Bridge Commander and its sequel are better. And the King of all Star Trek games is Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates, which was an expansion for Starfleet Command 2, a series of games based upon a Star Trek table top game from the 70s or 80s.
• What bothers me about the concept of fluidic space is the unfathomable number of molecules it would entail for the whole of that universe to be filled with matter. • 8472 was hostile, sure, but that was explained as due to the Borg invasion. The one impersonating Boothby seems to have warmed up to humans enough to at least consider peace, and let's not forget that one even got _romantic_ with Chakotay.
I just watched that episode abit ago, was surprisingly enjoyable seeing everyone get along and attracted to each other rather then automatically afraid or repulsed
When I saw this as a kid, I just thought each particle in that dimension was just magnetic to the point that it overpowered gravity. Now, I think it's just a cool concept and have no way to explain it.
Well it was stated there that it is another dimension so laws of physics can be different there, for instance if you limit range of gravity from infinite to something small it would have harder time to stack so no collapse, or that fluid is from some hard to compress material + universe is infinite and homogeneous + making denser materials require large or impossible amount of force so also no collapse. But then again authors probably just wanted something original.
There is actually one other possibility I can think of for the lack of collapse, it could be that fluidic space is in a state of equilibrium between dark energy and gravity of course this would still raise the question whether this equilibrium was a naturally stable condition or whether it is likely to be subject to perturbation in the future but it is one potential explanation for an apparently steady state existing in the time interval in which we encounter it. Hell for that matter with it being organic it's possible this is an example of some form of homeostasis being maintained by a lifeform that can interact with dark energy in some manner that nothing we know of in our universe has evolved to do.
Perhaps the organic fluid is a result of a life-form that learned to replicate itself similar to replicators, converting energy into matter. With nothing to stop it, it fed on the background energy of it's universe and expanded exponentially.
If fluidic space is itself a life form, maybe the Undine are its immune system, which is why they are so hostile. Intruders to the biomass are an infection and so they'll attack it like antibodies.
Certainly possible, but still fails to explain why it all hasn't collapsed into a screaming point of quantum insanity as the gravity makes everything hug everything else until it hugs a hole through fluidic space into hell (also known as a Gravitational Singularity/Black Hole).
I love that idea. Then maybe out of that they began organizing and specializing, forming different species on those coral like structures which are planetary body equivalents. These species evolve and eventually develop the tech to explore space, over eons they warred until only the Undine remained.
@@defies4626 I think the biggest leap here is the assumption that the entirety of "fluidic space" is the same fluid. Seriously, what is Voyager's maximum sensor range? The entire Federation, Romulans, Dominion & Borg combined have barely mapped a single galaxy in our universe, and now they've determined the composition of an entire alternate universe? They could have seriously just landed in a bad spot. Hell it's unlikely the Undine know the boundaries of their home dimension.
Mirror Universe, judging by Dominatrix Troi, who following Mirror Universe logic is probably an Interrogator/Torturer who really gets into/off on her work
@@weldonwin Mirror Broken. Jellico dies like his actor did on Mars. Good comic that was ruined when the Prime Reality Boys showed up and wrecked things. memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_-_Mirror_Broken
I would love to see a Mirror Universe series of Next Generation and Voyager I think Janeway is a Pirate Captain there after she got sent to the Delta quadrant, I guess she would be regular Janeway without consideration of the prime detective, after all prime timeline Janeway did send Tuvix to his death. So maybe not that much difference from Mirror Universe Janeway after all.
I like the theory you put forth where this universe is in the midst of collapsing slowly. Perhaps species 8472 was at the center of this galaxy, and as the universe began collapsing, their environment (planets, solar systems, colonies, etc) began to become less and less hospitable, giving them motivation to expand their empires boarders, claim more territory to escape the hyper dense core that was literally eating them. Maybe due to being in the middle of the dense space, since there was more matter there, they had an abundance of resources with which to build a larger, more advanced military, and maybe their physiology was more durable due to the intense pressure that was slowly building. Perhaps they really did eradicate every other major power in that universe in their quest to escape the middle of their collapsing universe, and when the Borg entered their universe, they realized there was their escape! Now they are trying to carve a niche in our universe so that they can escape their own collapsing one.
Fluidic space was obviously sneezed from out of the nose of the Great Green Arkalseezer and thus, all Undine live in perpetual fear of the coming of the great white handkerchief, which is why they are so aggressive and territorial, being afraid that intruders herald the time when they shall be wiped clean
Me mucking about for a bit with this topic: So we’ve got the idea that Fluidic Space is a lifeform in and of itself, which means it could (hypothetically) still be within our universe. My favorite idea for Fluidic Space is this: similar to the Kivouack of Satellite City and The August Few by Sam Fennah, this is a parallel universe slowly moving towards its own end. Not a new dimension but another universe on the same axes as our own. All of the materials in the universe-all forms of matter-have coalesced into a conjoining of all materials and it’s slowly expanding again. This has resulted in all matter creating an environment that’s incredibly beneficial to life yet is equally hostile. The lifeforms are literally *made* from their environment, meaning that the Undine were originally single celled organisms within Fluidic Space which evolved into what we know today. The only reason there are no other creatures, sans their ships, is because they kill and eat whatever fauna that grows within their realm. They’re farming any and all life which comes into being, which isn’t wasteful because Fluidic Space can create an endless supply of lifeforms made from itself. When an Undine is out in the vacuum, it’s released all atmosphere from its lungs and is able to survive because its body is hardier than our own-there’s no *pressure* or gravity in Fluidic Space, merely stuff to fill the vacuum. They’re able to breathe whatever atmosphere because they exist in a universe where all forms of atmosphere exist simultaneously. Then there’s the shapeshifting which can be explained as they’re *Made of Fluidic Space* , they’re reshaping themselves to look and act human. The reason I believe them to be xenophobic and hardy isn’t because they’re the inferior of a truly cosmic beast, as awesome as that is. I believe they’re like this because it’s all they’ve ever known as the apex creatures of their rotting universe** Ours is in a state of “youth”, theirs is old and has seen things. They’re all that’s left from the coalescing of all matter in the Sploosh. Just like we humans, have known war constantly to survive, so too have the Undine. This war wasn’t with others of their own kind-they’re above that nonsense-but with an environment wherein life is hostile by default. If you throw a soldier out into the wilderness, all life is out to kill them. Fluidic Space is just another jungle, merely huge and truly three-dimensional. The Undine aren’t killing outta hatred or anything like that. Their space, their home, is pure organic material. They grew from it and so did their technology. Foreigners of metal and weak flesh have invaded, risking the purity of their home. Pure organics encountering weaker material view them as they are, literally less pure and absolutely weaker. We’re *food* ! This isn’t a malicious race hellbent on genocide, but a race of predators looking to eat. The Hirogen are big-game Hunters, playing with their quarry, and are true equals to these apex beasties. **I’m aware that sounds odd. Just hear me out. This is what remains of another universe like we would understand it. All the matter, after entropy did its thing, came into one place and created a fluid environment which life can inhabit entirely. Think of it like a cycle of life and death: when our universe dies, it’ll splat like a bug and explode as a mess of organic material, before it too dies to become another kind of universe like we would know it.
There is also the option of the fluid being that dimension's time-space itself, not something made of matter. There have been(and still are a few) many theories that time space is a superfluid (something that can be moved through without friction). These fluids would not be made of matter but rather be space itself, it could be that the Fluidic Space is just a dimension where that's visible. Also if the fluid is the space itself it would be what transmits gravity, not something that causes it and therefore not prone to collapsing under it's own weight.
Option 2 makes the most sense. There was a 10 million year period of our irl universe where empty space had the same temperature as luke-warm bath water.
but why would it be organic? at that point it was simple atoms heated by ambient energy, not complex proteins, otherwise considering the timescales there would be no 8+ billion years with no organic life on earth. unless all the organic matter spontaneously combusted the universe would be filled with life to the brim, and life on earth would appear much sooner, considering it already was full of organic mater at the beginning.
Physics background Trekkie here. When they introduced fluidic space into cannon, it twisted my melon a bit. Trying to connect the real world to fantasy can be silly, but fun. I think it is at the core of real science. Thanks for such great videos.
If it is infinite, it doesn't have a centre to collapse into in the conventional sense. Our universe has a particular density, but it was never guaranteed that it should collapse - prior to the discovery of dark energy, that was one of three possibilities. It could collapse in a crunch, eventually halt over infinite time scales but never collapse, or keep going forever, never halting the expansion. With dark energy (itself attractive, like all energy, but repulsive for the fact that it has a constant density and thus negative pressure) we live in an accelerating expansion. It's a matter of balance. Being filled with a fluid doesn't necessarily mean it'll collapse, or that argument could easily apply to our own universe as well. One possibility is that it experienced a longer inflationary period than our own universe, preventing its eventual collapse. Gravity might also be weaker there, which is something we'd not notice terrible often, and you could probably say that because gravity in starships is provided by gravity plating, that's not affected.
Yeah that was my thought. If its density is smooth across the entire universe, it wouldn't have a central position to all collapse into. It would still have pockets of higher density so star-like and planet-like structures would still be a thing, and we see those, but just like our universe where radiation pressure eventually overcomes the attractive forces at a certain distance, there's no reason why a fluid-filled space would all collapse together
@@sciguy98 One fun consequence of a denser universe, though, is the possibility of a curved universe. Our universe is pretty flat, maybe not perfectly, but flat is well within the error bars of measurement. If you had more stuff, without a corresponding increase in the strength of dark energy, you could get an enclosed universe. Fluidic space may not have an edge, or a centre, but it could be finite, as the surface of a positively curved hypersphere.
It doesn't even need to be infinite. It could just be boundless, shaped like a circle or donut or some other edgeless shape. It could even be relatively small.
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”. I love that Douglas Adams reference haha 🤣
I really like the eldritch idea. I think fluidic space is a giant creature. They are an immune system or bacteria or something but at equivalent scale.
P.S. the quantum singularities that Romulan ships use instead of warp cores are in fact artificial miniature black holes. There was a TNG episode (forgot the title) on which a species of weird aliens that lay their eggs in black holes infested a Romulan power core by mistake. Also a fun physics fact, miniature black holes are not black at all, they are in fact very bright, the smaller the brighter (because of Hawking radiation)
My theory: it is there other side of the universe that is opened when black holes rip a hole in normal space-time. Feeding black holes keep fluidic space from collapsing. When all the black holes in our universe can no longer feed due to lack of matter/energy, fluidic space will start to collapse in on itself. From our side this can be observed by black holes slowly evaporating. Eventually our universe has it's heat death and then even further out all blackholes will completely evaporate. By this time with no energy/matter from feeding blackholes to keep things balanced, the matter in fluidic space would then collape rapidly and be crushed down to a 'blackhole' of sorts on the fluidic space side. Eventually the momentum and pressure is so great it collapses and ruptures back through space-time to our now dead universe and rapidly expands (this would be like the big bang, a new one). It would essentially start all over again from there. I think matter going through ordinary black holes would never reach fluidic space intact, but I think species 8472 figured out a way to make a blackhole of just the right mass and size to allow safe passage back in forth. I also think the part of space where the profit's from DS9 live is just another part of fluidic space and worm holes are freak accidents that happen when two blackholes' singularities meet in fludic space and essentially carve a tunnel through it kind of like those big aquariums that have the glass tunnel that goes through the middle of it. The whole point of it being organic makes me think a lot of carbon/anti-carbon ends up in fluidic space some how rapidly recombining into organic molecules as it bumps into other atoms in the medium.
At 1:58 your image of the net for the 4D Hexahedral Hypercube is wrong as it would be made up of 8 Cubes and not 6. I know this is a bit geeky and picky. Sorry
There is also Unimatrix Zero where Seven's love interest is stationed "at the edge of fluidic space". Does that change anything? Does it mean it's part of our universe, even our galaxy? Or does "edge" mean "entrance" in this case?
@@StarboyXL9 I'm pretty sure the Tyrannids would get murderstomped by the Undine. Their *small* ships had planet killer weapons. The fuck are Tyranid Bioships going to do when the average sized Undine ships can get together and deathstar them from extreme range?
Acceptance that there is simply some information beyond our understanding, is called faith. Desiring to understand it anyways, is called logic. When these two things are separated, one will eventually dominate the other and both will suffer for it but when these two things work together, greatness is achieved.
What if fluidic space and the mycelial network from STD are part of the same kind of organic space? It could be one universe sized super organism, and these different parts are basically just organs extending through it.
Fluid pressure would appear to counter gravity quite effectively, provided density was low enough for the expanse of that space. That starship hulls are not crushed implies some combination of very low density or a small space, unless the fluid repels itself in a way that passes harmlessly through ships.
@@hanelyp1 i've always imagined that star trek ships could function underwater with no problems. I imagine the ship has a super high crush pressure so why couldn't it have a normal density (around water)? especially if their are other unknown forces at work?
@@FirstArchon In Voy a shuttle was barley able to withstand the water pressure at the center of a mass of water the size of a planet. So no it makes no sense unless there is another explanation that even the best "stock" starship could withstand the water pressure of an entire universe.
@@zDisturbed1 there wouldn't be water pressure from an entire universe because for it to be that dense gravity has to not be playing by the normal rules
an interesting take on the organic fluid in fluidic space. worth noting that black holes are the only singularity we know of irl, but is in fact a matter singularity.
A bit late, but since we now have ChatGPT, I asked for a physically correct explanation, and it is a lot easier than you might think. - Assuming a homogeneous distribution of mass then every particle in the universe would be subjected to the exact same force in all directions, which cancel out each other mostly. So assuming literally all of the universe is filled with goo, there would be no collapse and no noticeable gravitational pull. - Thermic pressure is what keeps gas clouds in our universe from collapsing. This could help to stabilize local Fluidic Space and flatten turbulence caused by space travel. Essentially ships cause friction, friction heats up, that causes gas to expand, and therefore forces it back to fill the void caused by that ship. - The Pauli Exclusion Principle roughly says, that no two fermions (particles) can occupy the same quantum state. For that reason electrons in atoms do not randomly collide. This would help to stabilize Fluidic Space on a quantum level in the same way it helps our universe to not have atoms constantly explode. So one doesn't have to come up with complicated theories on why it doesn't collapse, it is actually what would be expected.
About the gravity in fluidic space: you keep saying that everything will be pulled to the center - but there is no center! The mass is all around in every direction, pulling in every direction. Its like being in the center of a planet, where it is 0 G. Our own universe would have collapsed into a black hole because right after big bang it was stupidly dense. BUT stupidly dense in every direction equally.
Still every disturbance would cause motion which would lead to matter coalescing into denser and larger bodies, whose gravitational pull would attract more matter which even denser and larger. And given how much matter and thus gravitational pull there should to be in a universe filled with fluid, matter would not coalesce into a large number of small bodies (if you consider stars and galaxies small) but into one big body that captures all matter in that universe. And that body would have a centre - unless there is some force conteracting the gravitational pull of the matter the fluid consists of.
Ok, this is nitpicking, but were Star Trek nerds, so... At time stamp 7:14 you say that the Romulans use quantum singularities "...in place of warp cores to bend space-time and achieve warp speeds." Which could be correct if you're speaking very generally and non-specifically. The warp core doesnt propel the vessel per say, nor would the forced (to be precise) quantum singularity (hereafter FQS,) instead both of these are the power plants that feed enormous amounts of energy needed to power the nacelles which create the warp field. The Federation "warp core" makes power using a matter/anti-matter reaction and presumably the FQS draws power from the Hawking Radiation (hereafter HR) emitted from the tiny black hole. They would thus be able to "feed" (read: *force* past the "firewall" of HR) matter into the FQS, basically as a fuel to replenish the FQS that's constantly evaporating as it emits HR--thus effectively acting as a HR generator fueled by whatever matter or energy you can shove into it. And this HR is used to power the nacelles. Ok, way too persnickety and way too wordy. I just wanted to get my point across clearly. This also reminds me of a discussion of how "warp engines" can fit into a warp capable shuttle, or even a Runabout. I wrote up a similarly mind-numbing theory on how they dont need to fit warp cores in those small ships and fusion reactors were probably used. Fusion could potentially supply as much power for the nacelles to create a warp bubble, but with a much more limited supply of fuel. And my theory was vindicated by some dialog saying as much in a DS9 episode. Ok. That's enough. I'm done boring everyone...
Do you mean the science about using a "forced quantum singularity" (ie, an artificial black hole) as an energy storage and delivery device? That would be from reading, watching lectures, etc from the likes of Sean Carol, Lawrence Krause, etc for a baseline on cosmology and physics. But for specifics on the use of a black hole for power would be from the stupendous RUclips channel: SFIA, or Science and Futurism with Isaac Arthur. This is a must watch channel if you're interested in the actual real world physics of things like interstellar and intergalactic travel, space stations, terraforming, planetary launch systems, Dyson Spheres (or more realistically, Dyson Swarms,) and even the manufacturing of planets (including making a planet by completely encapsulating a black hole so big that just beyond it's event horizon and thus on the surface of the shell around it the gravity would be 1G, or Earth-normal,) or using a star as a giant thruster to make a whole solar system into a space ship of sorts to travel the galaxy/universe, or using a star as a planet destroying laser, or a pushing laser to accelerate space craft. The science this guy uses is awesome. Pretty much as a rule he focuses on potential technologies that exist within known physics (even including the possibility of actual wormholes or Alcubier (spelling?) Warp Drives!) His unofficial motto is: "If brute force isn't working, you're not using enough of it!" Definitely check it out if you're interested in such things! He has tons of content and its as entertaining as it is enlightening.
Loved the Hitchhiker's reference lol. The Scorpion (parts 1 and 2) were perhaps my favorite voyager episodes. When I first watched it, I thought it was so cool seeing the Borg and Federation working together, and seeing a Borg Cube being destroyed to save Voyager was awesome. Then I watched Babylon 5 and thought the Undine's similarity with the Vorlons, as least as far as organic ships, was super cool.
Your forgetting star fleet ships use a deflector field, to push matter rocks dust away from the ship especially at warp..... so actively this fluid wouldn’t never touch the hull the deflector field is pushing it away perhaps fluidic space, could be like a black hole, laws of physics are similar but has special status.... spacial relativity instead of general
I think fluidic space is just a section of our space that we haven't got to yet. As in the Voyage episode "Unamatrixs Zero" part 2 Seven's love interest said he was on a Borg scout ship patrolling the edge of fluidic space.
I really like the idea of Fluidic Space being what happened to some alternate universe when the Undine had their way with it: it's filled with "8472 poop", as you said. The thing about it being in the distant future as the universe collapses, though, doesn't really work any better than having it be an early universe that hasn't expanded much, because the temperatures there are symmetric: as the universe collapses it heats up again. So the idea of the fluid being made of some kind of antigravitational stuff seems best, something that counteracts the collapse of everything under gravity; or at least, the idea of their space being filled with something that prevents things from collapsing under gravity, which then could help prevent matter from clumping together like it does in our universe, allowing their universe to become filled with a thin fluid of matter, all of which has since been chewed up and shat out by the Undine in their conquest of that universe.
@@tonebonebgky2 this wasn’t their realm, and they discovered the truth of the Borg situation. They probably went back and decided to leave well enough alone. Although for us, ever going to go to fluid space would probably get us destroyed for real next time.
Organic just means molecules that come together naturally. So an Enzyme is an organic molecule. So the fluid could just be a suspension of organic molecules up to amoebas/plankton like lifeforms. There may be another explanation for why it doesn't collapse, or at least collapse quickly. The balance of gravity, dark matter & dark energy are different to our universe. For example, if there's generally less Dark Matter in Fluidic Space than our universe, with the same level of gravity & Dark Energy, then feasibly any collapse would be much slower, possibly non-existent, as it would be far weaker against the expansive force of Dark Energy.
8:43 You're mistaking an air vacuum for a fluid vacuum. Trees use an incredibly high liquid vacuum to suck up water from roots to hundreds of feet tall. What's to say that fluidic space isn't simply a fluid vacuum.
I always loved the idea of the Undine, the name given to them by the Federation. Undine in Greek mythology were the Elementals, and the name Undine became a female given name, suggesting a matriarchal, or life-giver perception by the Federation.
Dr. Robert Hurt (from NASA) was a guest on P1 podcasts. He believed that space itself was Synthetic Universe and was made by 8472. And gave an awesome breakdown why with science!
Haven't seen this brought up yet, but it seems as though fluidic space is either in our universe, or there is a naturally occurring opening into it. One of the unimatrix zero drones says he's onboard a sphere at the other end of the beta quadrant "patrolling the border of fluidic space"
The Gekli (the race of the creature that latched onto the Enterprise-D until they "soured the milk" in terms of power output) also originate in Fluidic Space according to STO.
we also see the term singularity used in reference to Wormholes, though mostly in screen graphics on consoles. the Bajoran wormhole for example is diagrammed as having a "ring singularity"inside it, and a "point singularity" at the mouth f the wormhole. suggesting that maybe the terminology of "singularity" has changed some from our understanding of it.
Toroidal singularities form in the cores of rotating black holes. PBS Spacetime has some neat astrophysics videos on the how things get weird when they’re involved.
I've been reading about the so called Undine War in the background lore to Star Trek Online (the book 'The Needs of the Many' in particular) Seems to have lasted from around 2386 to 2397 or thereabouts, with many believing it was 'over' by the end of the century. Were issues before that, with a rift forming in 2385.
Well there must be planet-like objects with a force being applied in a certain direction at least otherwise the undine wouldn't have evolved to have legs or any top/bottom distinction.
2:53. This is a ship design from Babylon-5. The living Bioship of the Vorlon. 4:00. Fluidic Space. Aren't you forgetting something about liquids? And this may be a Liquid-Gas Hybrid, there is a thing that has been proven scientifiacally, it is called surface tension. This would be as I believe, necessitate an alteration of the laws of physics to account for a slightly solid atmosephere, and would also need for you to impliment Hydrodynamics as well. 6:19. What if a Warpbubble could be used to turn a Blackhole into an access point into Fluidic Space? 8:47. What if Dusty Prater is right and this is a living complex organism and Species 8472 is actually its ammune system, they they wouldn't be in a vacuum at all. And their ships are career organisism to move them through vast distances. Also, both are living organisms. Leading to 10:00. If the inside is a bioship, then the whole thing is a Bioship, like Gumtue. Leading up to 12:00. Nothing so dramatic. it is just another Universe that exists parallel to ours and is either an organish or a very large group of life forms that react to its suroundings similarly to the way the human body reacts to microscopic lifeforms inside it. It is only on a grander scale. He is confused by this so called pssychobabbble. is because he is barking up the wrong trees and trying to make it more dramatic than it is.
For the point brought up at about 3:18, I might be able to offer some, very very tenuous explanation. If everywhere is this fluid, then there is no centre of mass which gravity can act on, every particle would be pulled just as strongly in one direction as another. Indeed, our own universe is expanding in every direction at once, from every point at once. This goes out the window though when you realise, this means there must be constant density, a point discarded when you consider things like the Undine themselves, which are definitely denser than the fluid they move through. If we really want to stretch it really, *really* far for the sake of fixing the writing, it could be in a state analogous to the steady state theory of the universe, where dark energy and gravity have reached an equal force, cancelling each other out, assuming dark energy does still exist in this dimension.
If fluidic space is infinite and homogenous on the large scale, then the gravitational force from it is 0. At any particular point, the gravitational attraction to all the fluid in one direction is cancelled by all the fluid in the opposite direction. If it is infinite, there is no centre for it to collapse towards. Also, organic means is that it has carbon and probably hydrogen.
3:06 No, it wouldn't necessarily collapse. IF the fluid fills all space in that universe, then there is no place this stuff doesn't exist which means the gravitational pull exerted on and by the fluid would be equal in all directions. This is actually one of the major conundrums within physics today. The very early Universe was uniform, there were no places of higher or lower density and, if it had remained that way, none of it would have been more gravitationally attracted to any given direction and we'd never have had stars or galaxies or anything other than this uniform-density matter and energy. SOMETHING changed that, we don't know what that thing was, although the most prevalent theory was minute fluctuations in a scalar field which made very, very slight disturbances in the matter and energy that filled the universe creating slight increases in density in certain places. The issue, of course, is that the fluid DOESN'T fill all of space in that universe, there are other things which would either be of higher or lower density as the fluid and would, therefore, mean that the fluid would be more attracted in one direction or another.
If their universe really just started, how did they evolve to that point so quickly? Where did they build their ships, on what planet? With what resources?
Ive always gone with fluidic space being body of an enormous single cell, similar to the creature in TOS Immunity Syndrome. A single cell the size of several star systems and the Undine devised a way to breach the cell wall and fly through the vacuum of space to other creatures, perhaps inhabited by other intelligent lifeforms; being master of their realm could refer to their home cell, not an entire universe.
Wasn't there a DS9 episode where the station crew encountered a tiny but growing protouniverse? What if that's what eventually became the fluidic space universe we see in Voyager? Maybe I've got the timing wrong, I don't know how long the Borg have been at war with species 8472 by the time Voyager discovers them.
First there was darkness. Q sneezed, then there was fluidic space. Bless Q...
I was gonna say Negilum, but yeah basically lol
Edit: effing typos
@@merryc.5466 I know right! Those type Os think they're so special!
@@Corvus__ Bwahahaha! Universal donor joke _falls off chair laughing_
Thx for offsetting some ignorant jerks galling me today in threads 😍
@@merryc.5466 So just wondering. What do you think of the cereal spell chex?
@@Corvus__ I certainly look upon them more favourably than cereal killers _ badum tisshh_
Edit: those O'S again
Perhaps, given their ability to breakdown other forms of life, Fluidic Space is a giant living organism and the Undine are like sentient anti-bodies. It would explain why they are so hostile to outside lifeforms, seeing them as hostile invaders into their space.
Except Species 8472 attacked Voyager in normal space so this is face plants with excessive force. I recall the first encounter Species 8472 appeared and began attacking out of no where. Voyager did not have ability to jump dimensions. Though do not remember if they reverse engineered 8472 technology to jump into it, although not sure why they would.
@@1014phe borg attacked them first, then voyager git stuck between a cude and fluidic invaders
Maybe they’re like the hyper-aggressive immune systems of the children in “Unnatural Selection.”
“Oh, you want to invade? We’ll swat your ass from across the room, Pulaski.”
What if Fluidic Space is actually a very large complex organism? From the various images it looks quite similar to an Extracellular Matrix,which is mostly organic in our universe. This would help explain away the gravity issue as the pressure created by the "super organism's" circulatory system. And the fact that Species 8472 are so xenophobic could be because they act as the immune system of this lifeform, as their A&P and behavior resembles our own immune system. Anyway, great video, keep up the good work!!😁
Dusty Prater that makes sense as I had a similar thought.
I can see that working. Maybe the only way to stop Species 8472 would've been to somehow get in contact with the life-form filling their pocket universe. That might have been interesting, depending on how it's handled, but the voyager show runners couldn't think of something like that. Species 8472 could've been for Voyager what the Borg was for TNG. But no such luck.
This could even sync with TOS episode where Enterprise encounters a 11,000 mile long single cell organism, and theorize that if it isn't destroyed, it could divide, divide, etc, until federation life would be nothing more than a virus within it.
@@kevingooley9628 That's interesting. Have to go back and watch that. Also, what about the episode of TNG, where the scientists genetically engineered kids with "active immune systems"? It would be nice to get some kind of callback to that episode, while they are figuring out what they are dealing with.
species 8472 attacked the BORG even outside of fluidic space when invading the delta quadrant
Organic doesn't necessarily mean it is living or came from something living. in chemistry the label organic technically applies to any compound that has carbon in it.
Was going to say this but I saw your comment before I posted.
Yeah, this is a HUGE misunderstanding by a large portion of humanity. There are organics on Titan (methane seas) but they're probably not biological in nature or origin. Fluidic space might just be a particularly dense carbon dioxide nebula (though it definitely appears to be a liquid, so probably not).
Absolutely true, 4Dmike, but Star Trek expanded what organic materials are in their universe. Silica-based life, not lust carbon-based life, are considered organic. Also, just about any complex chemicals that become dynamic enough to "be alive" as well. Star Trek uses science fiction organic, which is expanded to include things outside of what actual science currently defines it as. Some scientific universes consider super-complex molecular-parts nano-machines that perfectly replicate life to be organic as they crossed from machine to life form as they became part of bigger entities. Also, in Star Trek, that one silica-based monster (TOS) that caused people to fight each other was considered inorganic life, so it's also not completely consistent. How solid definitions are, well, are completely up to the current writers.
the definition you would get only from a particularly stupid chemistry teacher their are MANY compounds that contain carbon which are't classified as organic and some compounds that contain oxygen but not carbon that are considered organic its a good rule of thumb but isn't universally true. also words have multiple meanings and one definition is "something alive or something that came from something alive"
@@FirstArchon uh, no, the DEFINITION of "organic compound" is one that contains carbon. Therefore if something doesn't have carbon it is, by definition, not organic. Similarly something which contains carbon is, again by definition, organic.
I believe species 8472 is the equivalent of white blood cells in a immensely gigantic organism of a universe
That was my thought too.
I always thought if they werent intended to be that, they were very much inspired by that idea.
Given that Star Trek has established beings that could be charitably described as Eldritch (the Q one of the more ubiquitous) it's entirely possible that Fluidic Space is actually part of one such being.
Perhaps fluidic space is entirely contained within a single glob of snot within some guy's nose.
@@writershard5065 lol
"What is Fluidic Space'
It's gross. Pleasesomeonewashthehullitstinks.
Personally i find the idea of a dimension being a cosmic-sized living creature or filled with several such creatures fascinating.
Maybe it could even be the origin of some of the larger entities seen throughout the franchise, like that amoeba from TOS that seemed to come out of nowhere
There are a series of books featuring the Titan which explains all those large galactic creatures tin man, crystalline entity & many others.
@@davidjones3165 oh do you know the title?
@@lukewarm3969 there are 7 books under the title
Star Trek Titan just look for that & they should come up
In the Voyager episode "Unimatrix Zero", Seven's boyfriend says that he is "on a Borg ship patrolling the border of fluidic space" and that he was very far away. This pretty much means that Fluidic Space is a region within the normal Star Trek Universe, somewhere in the general vicinity of the Milky Way galaxy; unless the Borg have an extragalactic reach. My guess is that FS is a carbon rich nebula somewhere in Milky Way's galactic halo, possibly one of the nearby dwarf galaxies.
Of course the real reason for all the inconsistencies is that CBS assigned all of their best science fiction writers to DS9, and Voyager was written by the C or D team.
I disliked fewer episodes of Voyager than DS9. Not a great way to measure a series, perhaps, but within the overall arc of 'getting home', Voyager had several decent mini-arcs that were quite satisfying, such as the Hirojen and their dying culture, as well as 8472.
The who 'You are the Sisko' bullshit of DS9 and the pseudo-religious battle between the good and bad prophets was just annoying in a universe up until that point (The ST franchise) dominated by scientific (sci-fi-ish) understanding of natural phenomena and never adequately explained.
Robert Pratt ugh. The Q?
I thought it was the border of the Gamma Quadrant?
Its clearly a seperate space as Voyager has to enter it via a special entrance, but in one episode they talk about a passage where very few borg ships seem to be, and that is where the Undine come out of fluidic space in to normal space.
If that's the case why ds9 suck so badly
You’re very entertaining, even when trying to understand a fictional universe. Often people latch onto some phrase or passage from “Canon” and insist on using it ad nauseam in building up their vision...but you ask “what about this? Maybe that? Or this other way” , a series of questions each with its own possible outcomes.
That takes skill. And that’s what makes this video fun to listen to.
👍🏼
"figuring out technobabble"
The bane of many a scifi nerd.
And Voyager was full of technobabble. It's basically why I quit the show...
Just another part of the promise of Sci-fi leading real science into understanding things we do not understand yet.
Upvote earned from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quote
I was just about to say that to late
Made me very unhappy
God, I wish we had upvotes.
Got me to laugh! XD
I'm starting to think that every science fiction fan read that book. I wish I saw the movie first... I would have loved the movie if I saw it before I read the book. They didn't use the ear fish... blasphemy!
The Undine where one of the best additions to Trek lore Voyager came up with IMO.
I wonder, what if those "coral like" planetoids are actually hollow on the inside to some extend, and this is where the Undine culture resides in? Also I think the concept of them being placed in a pocket universe by the Q is a nice explanation.
Personally I think they just evolved in this alien dimension, probably weren't always alone in there. Maybe they had to defend against a terrifying enemy and succeeded. Hence why they where able to repel the Borg fairly effortlessly, since their culture developed to be always ready to defend itself (1 Bioship destroying 25 Borg Cubes single handed, was it?) And as we learned later in Voyager, they are not beyond reason, so maybe with enough time and effort some form of peaceful relationship with them could be established...
Also I enjoyed this video very much! Keep up the great work!!
Draeandor, these bio alien's were the only good thing about Voyager.
I disliked them being shown as reasonable. I know Star Trek is supposed to be idealistic but the Undine were depicted as xenophobic considering every thing that isn't them a disease. It should've been like attempting diplomacy with the Nazis.
@@GoroScornshard Well, Nazis were at times very diplomatic, pulling off some stunts considered genius.
They could be very polite and charming, but they had a habit of ending their treaties unilaterally, like Trump.
Draeandor read my comment, I wont add it here because its long, but I have a similar theory, I think you will be interested.
Godwins law comes for free today
3:45: You're confusing fluidic space with fluid. It doesn't collapse because it's not matter; it's space. It's not space that is occupied by material; it's material that IS space. They'd just call it a nebula if it were a nebula.
In the episode "Scorpion Pt 2" B'elanna clearly states: "This is not space - it's matter". I think this line was purposely inserted to distinguish between an alternate dimension consisting of space with fluidic properties vs fluid matter.
Sensors were further able to determine that it was an organic fluid, which would indicate the presence of a molecular structure and carbon atoms. This is clearly matter.
By definition, matter occupies space. Even if that happens to be all the space available, gravitation would still act on these molecules.
The Sparkle Zone I wonder if that’s true. Here’s my thinking, if you can experiment and make a pocket of empty space (like popping a balloon) and then the material would creep into that pocket then it looks like the material filling that space.
@@lelmus3277 Well, yeah, but under that understanding it's just a nebula, isn't it? It's not space, much less fluidic space.
The Sparkle Zone I’m probably way wrong with this, but let me tell you what I thought it was. A large body of material is a nebula, a galactic body of material is a fluidic expanse, and a never ending body of material is fluidic space.
I think this was just thought too much upon. If you look at the physics of our universe, after the big bang it grew outward spherically with the expansion slowing while the universe was cooling down. Then it will collapse in on itself. It just takes a very long time. And our universe is not empty. Scientists generally agree that the space between objects in space are filled with varying concentrations of dark matter. I guess that in Fluidic Space, dark matter is replaced by organic compounds. This might even stop the universe from collapsing in on itself, because light hydrocarbons in motion tend to repel each other, so Fluidic Space might have achieved some kind of equilibrium.
What could be inferred is that Fluidic Space is slightly warmer than own universe, probably with a temperature slightly above 161°C, because this is the boiling point of Methane, the smallest organic molecule. Ethane would be liquid at this temperature, while Pentane would be frozen solid. Maybe Fluidic Space is just a pocket universe that only contains very few elements, with a great abundance of hydrogen, Carbon and Oxygen. It would also account for the vastly different technology of the Undine, if they only had limited access to metals and other elements on the periodic table.
The animation of the ships reminds me of that old computer game “Star Trek Armada”. That was a great game for it’s time.
I believe the gameplay footage is from Star Trek Online, which is also good. It's an MMORPG kinda like World Of Warcraft, but... not.
A lot of love went into making it, vis a vis the gameplay going to Fluidic Space.
Also still not sure how much volume it has.
I use to play that game on p.c in like 1999 or 2000. Trek aramda
I loved ST Armada I and II
Armada and the sequel were great. But personally, Bridge Commander and its sequel are better. And the King of all Star Trek games is Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates, which was an expansion for Starfleet Command 2, a series of games based upon a Star Trek table top game from the 70s or 80s.
• What bothers me about the concept of fluidic space is the unfathomable number of molecules it would entail for the whole of that universe to be filled with matter.
• 8472 was hostile, sure, but that was explained as due to the Borg invasion. The one impersonating Boothby seems to have warmed up to humans enough to at least consider peace, and let's not forget that one even got _romantic_ with Chakotay.
I just watched that episode abit ago, was surprisingly enjoyable seeing everyone get along and attracted to each other rather then automatically afraid or repulsed
If the internet can attest to it is that sometimes humans are willing to mate with pretty much anything.
" let's not forget that one even got romantic with Chakotay."
..Riker must never find out.
Whoa! That's not right! - Guy Fleegman, Galaxy Quest
"Originates from Gravitons, a theoretical particle that... something - something - Gravity." LOVE IT!
When I saw this as a kid, I just thought each particle in that dimension was just magnetic to the point that it overpowered gravity. Now, I think it's just a cool concept and have no way to explain it.
Well it was stated there that it is another dimension so laws of physics can be different there, for instance if you limit range of gravity from infinite to something small it would have harder time to stack so no collapse, or that fluid is from some hard to compress material + universe is infinite and homogeneous + making denser materials require large or impossible amount of force so also no collapse.
But then again authors probably just wanted something original.
There is actually one other possibility I can think of for the lack of collapse, it could be that fluidic space is in a state of equilibrium between dark energy and gravity of course this would still raise the question whether this equilibrium was a naturally stable condition or whether it is likely to be subject to perturbation in the future but it is one potential explanation for an apparently steady state existing in the time interval in which we encounter it. Hell for that matter with it being organic it's possible this is an example of some form of homeostasis being maintained by a lifeform that can interact with dark energy in some manner that nothing we know of in our universe has evolved to do.
Underated comment
Wait, are you suggesting that the Undine are the white blood cells of Fluidic Space??
Thats exactly what i thought
Same here. The Xenophobic actions can be seen as defense against invading germs.
Perhaps the organic fluid is a result of a life-form that learned to replicate itself similar to replicators, converting energy into matter. With nothing to stop it, it fed on the background energy of it's universe and expanded exponentially.
If fluidic space is itself a life form, maybe the Undine are its immune system, which is why they are so hostile. Intruders to the biomass are an infection and so they'll attack it like antibodies.
Certainly possible, but still fails to explain why it all hasn't collapsed into a screaming point of quantum insanity as the gravity makes everything hug everything else until it hugs a hole through fluidic space into hell (also known as a Gravitational Singularity/Black Hole).
I love that idea. Then maybe out of that they began organizing and specializing, forming different species on those coral like structures which are planetary body equivalents. These species evolve and eventually develop the tech to explore space, over eons they warred until only the Undine remained.
@@defies4626 I think the biggest leap here is the assumption that the entirety of "fluidic space" is the same fluid. Seriously, what is Voyager's maximum sensor range? The entire Federation, Romulans, Dominion & Borg combined have barely mapped a single galaxy in our universe, and now they've determined the composition of an entire alternate universe?
They could have seriously just landed in a bad spot. Hell it's unlikely the Undine know the boundaries of their home dimension.
@@defies4626 Maybe a 5th force in that universe? Dark energy? Or some other form of anti-gravity?
What is this alternate reality with a buff picard and a killing machine data ?
Mirror Universe, judging by Dominatrix Troi, who following Mirror Universe logic is probably an Interrogator/Torturer who really gets into/off on her work
@@weldonwin Mirror Broken. Jellico dies like his actor did on Mars. Good comic that was ruined when the Prime Reality Boys showed up and wrecked things.
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_-_Mirror_Broken
I love the mirrorverse
Think it’s the mirror universe
I would love to see a Mirror Universe series of Next Generation and Voyager I think Janeway is a Pirate Captain there after she got sent to the Delta quadrant, I guess she would be regular Janeway without consideration of the prime detective, after all prime timeline Janeway did send Tuvix to his death. So maybe not that much difference from Mirror Universe Janeway after all.
I like the theory you put forth where this universe is in the midst of collapsing slowly. Perhaps species 8472 was at the center of this galaxy, and as the universe began collapsing, their environment (planets, solar systems, colonies, etc) began to become less and less hospitable, giving them motivation to expand their empires boarders, claim more territory to escape the hyper dense core that was literally eating them. Maybe due to being in the middle of the dense space, since there was more matter there, they had an abundance of resources with which to build a larger, more advanced military, and maybe their physiology was more durable due to the intense pressure that was slowly building. Perhaps they really did eradicate every other major power in that universe in their quest to escape the middle of their collapsing universe, and when the Borg entered their universe, they realized there was their escape! Now they are trying to carve a niche in our universe so that they can escape their own collapsing one.
Fluidic space was obviously sneezed from out of the nose of the Great Green Arkalseezer and thus, all Undine live in perpetual fear of the coming of the great white handkerchief, which is why they are so aggressive and territorial, being afraid that intruders herald the time when they shall be wiped clean
Nice
Well you can't spell tissue without issue...
The number of hankerchiefs they await is 42...
Incidently, species 8472, have multiple legs, was the first species to invent a shoe shiner before inventing fire.
@@michaelwoodall7922 And aerosol deodorant before the wheel
"I don't know, therefore Q"
Truly words to live by.
Q of the gaps.
This is so true for many humans of our day and age: "I don't know, therefore god."
(Don't understand me too quickly.☺ I'm NOT saying Q = god.)
My theory: fluidic space is the far future of our universe. Species 8472 are the distant descendants of the Borg themselves.
Me mucking about for a bit with this topic: So we’ve got the idea that Fluidic Space is a lifeform in and of itself, which means it could (hypothetically) still be within our universe.
My favorite idea for Fluidic Space is this: similar to the Kivouack of Satellite City and The August Few by Sam Fennah, this is a parallel universe slowly moving towards its own end. Not a new dimension but another universe on the same axes as our own. All of the materials in the universe-all forms of matter-have coalesced into a conjoining of all materials and it’s slowly expanding again. This has resulted in all matter creating an environment that’s incredibly beneficial to life yet is equally hostile. The lifeforms are literally *made* from their environment, meaning that the Undine were originally single celled organisms within Fluidic Space which evolved into what we know today. The only reason there are no other creatures, sans their ships, is because they kill and eat whatever fauna that grows within their realm. They’re farming any and all life which comes into being, which isn’t wasteful because Fluidic Space can create an endless supply of lifeforms made from itself. When an Undine is out in the vacuum, it’s released all atmosphere from its lungs and is able to survive because its body is hardier than our own-there’s no *pressure* or gravity in Fluidic Space, merely stuff to fill the vacuum. They’re able to breathe whatever atmosphere because they exist in a universe where all forms of atmosphere exist simultaneously. Then there’s the shapeshifting which can be explained as they’re *Made of Fluidic Space* , they’re reshaping themselves to look and act human. The reason I believe them to be xenophobic and hardy isn’t because they’re the inferior of a truly cosmic beast, as awesome as that is. I believe they’re like this because it’s all they’ve ever known as the apex creatures of their rotting universe**
Ours is in a state of “youth”, theirs is old and has seen things. They’re all that’s left from the coalescing of all matter in the Sploosh. Just like we humans, have known war constantly to survive, so too have the Undine. This war wasn’t with others of their own kind-they’re above that nonsense-but with an environment wherein life is hostile by default. If you throw a soldier out into the wilderness, all life is out to kill them. Fluidic Space is just another jungle, merely huge and truly three-dimensional. The Undine aren’t killing outta hatred or anything like that. Their space, their home, is pure organic material. They grew from it and so did their technology. Foreigners of metal and weak flesh have invaded, risking the purity of their home. Pure organics encountering weaker material view them as they are, literally less pure and absolutely weaker. We’re *food* !
This isn’t a malicious race hellbent on genocide, but a race of predators looking to eat. The Hirogen are big-game Hunters, playing with their quarry, and are true equals to these apex beasties.
**I’m aware that sounds odd. Just hear me out. This is what remains of another universe like we would understand it. All the matter, after entropy did its thing, came into one place and created a fluid environment which life can inhabit entirely. Think of it like a cycle of life and death: when our universe dies, it’ll splat like a bug and explode as a mess of organic material, before it too dies to become another kind of universe like we would know it.
There is also the option of the fluid being that dimension's time-space itself, not something made of matter. There have been(and still are a few) many theories that time space is a superfluid (something that can be moved through without friction). These fluids would not be made of matter but rather be space itself, it could be that the Fluidic Space is just a dimension where that's visible. Also if the fluid is the space itself it would be what transmits gravity, not something that causes it and therefore not prone to collapsing under it's own weight.
I like this def
Loved Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy Reference!!!
Option 2 makes the most sense. There was a 10 million year period of our irl universe where empty space had the same temperature as luke-warm bath water.
Yep the Bath Water Epoch was what I was thinking too. It's a great hard(ish) science explanation.
For some period of time anyway. Seems likely.
but why would it be organic? at that point it was simple atoms heated by ambient energy, not complex proteins, otherwise considering the timescales there would be no 8+ billion years with no organic life on earth. unless all the organic matter spontaneously combusted the universe would be filled with life to the brim, and life on earth would appear much sooner, considering it already was full of organic mater at the beginning.
"They're so strong; we're weak!" - Totally Normal Scientist Cooper
Cooper then whispers for no reason... "And the weak will perish..."
Love the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy reference.
Physics background Trekkie here. When they introduced fluidic space into cannon, it twisted my melon a bit. Trying to connect the real world to fantasy can be silly, but fun. I think it is at the core of real science. Thanks for such great videos.
If it is infinite, it doesn't have a centre to collapse into in the conventional sense. Our universe has a particular density, but it was never guaranteed that it should collapse - prior to the discovery of dark energy, that was one of three possibilities. It could collapse in a crunch, eventually halt over infinite time scales but never collapse, or keep going forever, never halting the expansion.
With dark energy (itself attractive, like all energy, but repulsive for the fact that it has a constant density and thus negative pressure) we live in an accelerating expansion. It's a matter of balance. Being filled with a fluid doesn't necessarily mean it'll collapse, or that argument could easily apply to our own universe as well.
One possibility is that it experienced a longer inflationary period than our own universe, preventing its eventual collapse. Gravity might also be weaker there, which is something we'd not notice terrible often, and you could probably say that because gravity in starships is provided by gravity plating, that's not affected.
Yeah that was my thought. If its density is smooth across the entire universe, it wouldn't have a central position to all collapse into. It would still have pockets of higher density so star-like and planet-like structures would still be a thing, and we see those, but just like our universe where radiation pressure eventually overcomes the attractive forces at a certain distance, there's no reason why a fluid-filled space would all collapse together
@@sciguy98 One fun consequence of a denser universe, though, is the possibility of a curved universe. Our universe is pretty flat, maybe not perfectly, but flat is well within the error bars of measurement.
If you had more stuff, without a corresponding increase in the strength of dark energy, you could get an enclosed universe. Fluidic space may not have an edge, or a centre, but it could be finite, as the surface of a positively curved hypersphere.
Like a shadow world? Per Burkhard Heim and John Gribbin?
And the issue of baryon density with 'flatness'?
It doesn't even need to be infinite. It could just be boundless, shaped like a circle or donut or some other edgeless shape. It could even be relatively small.
@@GamesFromSpace Yeah, my personal headcanon is that it's a torus, so you could play a physically accurate game of asteroids in fluidic space.
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”. I love that Douglas Adams reference haha 🤣
I really like the eldritch idea. I think fluidic space is a giant creature. They are an immune system or bacteria or something but at equivalent scale.
P.S. the quantum singularities that Romulan ships use instead of warp cores are in fact artificial miniature black holes. There was a TNG episode (forgot the title) on which a species of weird aliens that lay their eggs in black holes infested a Romulan power core by mistake. Also a fun physics fact, miniature black holes are not black at all, they are in fact very bright, the smaller the brighter (because of Hawking radiation)
My theory: it is there other side of the universe that is opened when black holes rip a hole in normal space-time. Feeding black holes keep fluidic space from collapsing. When all the black holes in our universe can no longer feed due to lack of matter/energy, fluidic space will start to collapse in on itself. From our side this can be observed by black holes slowly evaporating. Eventually our universe has it's heat death and then even further out all blackholes will completely evaporate. By this time with no energy/matter from feeding blackholes to keep things balanced, the matter in fluidic space would then collape rapidly and be crushed down to a 'blackhole' of sorts on the fluidic space side. Eventually the momentum and pressure is so great it collapses and ruptures back through space-time to our now dead universe and rapidly expands (this would be like the big bang, a new one). It would essentially start all over again from there.
I think matter going through ordinary black holes would never reach fluidic space intact, but I think species 8472 figured out a way to make a blackhole of just the right mass and size to allow safe passage back in forth. I also think the part of space where the profit's from DS9 live is just another part of fluidic space and worm holes are freak accidents that happen when two blackholes' singularities meet in fludic space and essentially carve a tunnel through it kind of like those big aquariums that have the glass tunnel that goes through the middle of it. The whole point of it being organic makes me think a lot of carbon/anti-carbon ends up in fluidic space some how rapidly recombining into organic molecules as it bumps into other atoms in the medium.
At 1:58 your image of the net for the 4D Hexahedral Hypercube is wrong as it would be made up of 8 Cubes and not 6. I know this is a bit geeky and picky. Sorry
I’ve always believed Star Wars is in fluidic space simply from the fact their ion engines only point one direction.
There is also Unimatrix Zero where Seven's love interest is stationed "at the edge of fluidic space". Does that change anything? Does it mean it's part of our universe, even our galaxy? Or does "edge" mean "entrance" in this case?
Tyranids: So you're telling me a whole space made of biomass?
Certifiable Ingame: Ye----- *Tyranids warped off.
lol
Tyrannies vs 8472 would make for a great story
Size is relative. Remember the invading single cell in the original Star Trek?
@@StarboyXL9 I'm pretty sure the Tyrannids would get murderstomped by the Undine. Their *small* ships had planet killer weapons. The fuck are Tyranid Bioships going to do when the average sized Undine ships can get together and deathstar them from extreme range?
@@ASNS117Zero Well the Tyranids have a fleet the size of multiple galaxies, sooo...
Thanks again Rick. I am slowly trying to catch up on you're videos. Even though I did not know this channel even existed for years.
8472 Does not Eat or Sleep they mentioned that in Voyager when 8472 was building mock Federation Colonies to later infiltrate Star Fleet
Hmm... the Founders/changelings don't eat, either.
Acceptance that there is simply some information beyond our understanding, is called faith. Desiring to understand it anyways, is called logic. When these two things are separated, one will eventually dominate the other and both will suffer for it but when these two things work together, greatness is achieved.
Has there ever been any formal canon connection between fluidic space and the giant space amoeba from TOS?
No, but it would be a nice explanation, the same as many of the other biologics in Star Trek.
Love the Douglas Adams reference in the compression/expansion explanation. XD
In unimatrix zero: 7 of 9's boyfriend said his ship was on the edge of the beta quadrant patrolling the border of fluidic space.
2:19 This makes more sense now! I think oxygen like we live in now could be like "fluidic space" and now I imagine things floating around like blimps.
What if fluidic space and the mycelial network from STD are part of the same kind of organic space? It could be one universe sized super organism, and these different parts are basically just organs extending through it.
Loved the shoutout to Hitchhiker's Guide (05:18) Nicely done.
Wouldn't "Boyle's law" in conjunction with the "Browning Effect" limit the amount this "gas" contracts into itself?
Fluid pressure would appear to counter gravity quite effectively, provided density was low enough for the expanse of that space. That starship hulls are not crushed implies some combination of very low density or a small space, unless the fluid repels itself in a way that passes harmlessly through ships.
@@hanelyp1 i've always imagined that star trek ships could function underwater with no problems. I imagine the ship has a super high crush pressure so why couldn't it have a normal density (around water)? especially if their are other unknown forces at work?
@@hanelyp1 Didn't it have enough density to cause drag on their ships? Or am I remembering it wrong? Now I have to go watch it again.
@@FirstArchon In Voy a shuttle was barley able to withstand the water pressure at the center of a mass of water the size of a planet. So no it makes no sense unless there is another explanation that even the best "stock" starship could withstand the water pressure of an entire universe.
@@zDisturbed1 there wouldn't be water pressure from an entire universe because for it to be that dense gravity has to not be playing by the normal rules
an interesting take on the organic fluid in fluidic space. worth noting that black holes are the only singularity we know of irl, but is in fact a matter singularity.
I never thought of it this way, but what if it's a really small universe, a la the quantum realm in Ant Man?
A bit late, but since we now have ChatGPT, I asked for a physically correct explanation, and it is a lot easier than you might think.
- Assuming a homogeneous distribution of mass then every particle in the universe would be subjected to the exact same force in all directions, which cancel out each other mostly. So assuming literally all of the universe is filled with goo, there would be no collapse and no noticeable gravitational pull.
- Thermic pressure is what keeps gas clouds in our universe from collapsing. This could help to stabilize local Fluidic Space and flatten turbulence caused by space travel. Essentially ships cause friction, friction heats up, that causes gas to expand, and therefore forces it back to fill the void caused by that ship.
- The Pauli Exclusion Principle roughly says, that no two fermions (particles) can occupy the same quantum state. For that reason electrons in atoms do not randomly collide. This would help to stabilize Fluidic Space on a quantum level in the same way it helps our universe to not have atoms constantly explode.
So one doesn't have to come up with complicated theories on why it doesn't collapse, it is actually what would be expected.
WTF is that at 0:17? Rob Liefeld's Star Trek: the X-TREME Generation?
Tiberian Fiend it’s art is what it is.
Subbed because of the quality and humor, and for the on spot Hitchhikers Guide Reference ! Love it
About the gravity in fluidic space: you keep saying that everything will be pulled to the center - but there is no center! The mass is all around in every direction, pulling in every direction. Its like being in the center of a planet, where it is 0 G.
Our own universe would have collapsed into a black hole because right after big bang it was stupidly dense. BUT stupidly dense in every direction equally.
Exactly!
Still every disturbance would cause motion which would lead to matter coalescing into denser and larger bodies, whose gravitational pull would attract more matter which even denser and larger. And given how much matter and thus gravitational pull there should to be in a universe filled with fluid, matter would not coalesce into a large number of small bodies (if you consider stars and galaxies small) but into one big body that captures all matter in that universe. And that body would have a centre - unless there is some force conteracting the gravitational pull of the matter the fluid consists of.
@@MrAranton Dark matter, or it itself is like a magnet it's self repelling and physically can't form bonds. So it's basically a universe of teflon
Ok, this is nitpicking, but were Star Trek nerds, so...
At time stamp 7:14 you say that the Romulans use quantum singularities "...in place of warp cores to bend space-time and achieve warp speeds." Which could be correct if you're speaking very generally and non-specifically. The warp core doesnt propel the vessel per say, nor would the forced (to be precise) quantum singularity (hereafter FQS,) instead both of these are the power plants that feed enormous amounts of energy needed to power the nacelles which create the warp field. The Federation "warp core" makes power using a matter/anti-matter reaction and presumably the FQS draws power from the Hawking Radiation (hereafter HR) emitted from the tiny black hole. They would thus be able to "feed" (read: *force* past the "firewall" of HR) matter into the FQS, basically as a fuel to replenish the FQS that's constantly evaporating as it emits HR--thus effectively acting as a HR generator fueled by whatever matter or energy you can shove into it. And this HR is used to power the nacelles.
Ok, way too persnickety and way too wordy. I just wanted to get my point across clearly.
This also reminds me of a discussion of how "warp engines" can fit into a warp capable shuttle, or even a Runabout. I wrote up a similarly mind-numbing theory on how they dont need to fit warp cores in those small ships and fusion reactors were probably used. Fusion could potentially supply as much power for the nacelles to create a warp bubble, but with a much more limited supply of fuel. And my theory was vindicated by some dialog saying as much in a DS9 episode.
Ok. That's enough. I'm done boring everyone...
Where did the science originally come from?
Where did the science originally come from?
Do you mean the science about using a "forced quantum singularity" (ie, an artificial black hole) as an energy storage and delivery device? That would be from reading, watching lectures, etc from the likes of Sean Carol, Lawrence Krause, etc for a baseline on cosmology and physics. But for specifics on the use of a black hole for power would be from the stupendous RUclips channel: SFIA, or Science and Futurism with Isaac Arthur. This is a must watch channel if you're interested in the actual real world physics of things like interstellar and intergalactic travel, space stations, terraforming, planetary launch systems, Dyson Spheres (or more realistically, Dyson Swarms,) and even the manufacturing of planets (including making a planet by completely encapsulating a black hole so big that just beyond it's event horizon and thus on the surface of the shell around it the gravity would be 1G, or Earth-normal,) or using a star as a giant thruster to make a whole solar system into a space ship of sorts to travel the galaxy/universe, or using a star as a planet destroying laser, or a pushing laser to accelerate space craft. The science this guy uses is awesome. Pretty much as a rule he focuses on potential technologies that exist within known physics (even including the possibility of actual wormholes or Alcubier (spelling?) Warp Drives!) His unofficial motto is: "If brute force isn't working, you're not using enough of it!"
Definitely check it out if you're interested in such things! He has tons of content and its as entertaining as it is enlightening.
Here's an episode on "black hole star ships" ruclips.net/video/x32AkL6HPfc/видео.html
In scientific terms organic simply means containing carbon. Life is not a requirement.
Loved the Hitchhiker's reference lol. The Scorpion (parts 1 and 2) were perhaps my favorite voyager episodes. When I first watched it, I thought it was so cool seeing the Borg and Federation working together, and seeing a Borg Cube being destroyed to save Voyager was awesome. Then I watched Babylon 5 and thought the Undine's similarity with the Vorlons, as least as far as organic ships, was super cool.
Your forgetting star fleet ships use a deflector field, to push matter rocks dust away from the ship especially at warp..... so actively this fluid wouldn’t never touch the hull the deflector field is pushing it away
perhaps fluidic space, could be like a black hole, laws of physics are similar but has special status.... spacial relativity instead of general
I think fluidic space is just a section of our space that we haven't got to yet. As in the Voyage episode "Unamatrixs Zero" part 2 Seven's love interest said he was on a Borg scout ship patrolling the edge of fluidic space.
Would it not make more sense that Flouridic space is just a region of space just like there are Brine lakes at the bottom of the ocean
A layer of space, a layer underlying our reality, comparable to the ocean s layers though yes
I hear there are some pretty good oranges in flouridic space.
I really like the idea of Fluidic Space being what happened to some alternate universe when the Undine had their way with it: it's filled with "8472 poop", as you said. The thing about it being in the distant future as the universe collapses, though, doesn't really work any better than having it be an early universe that hasn't expanded much, because the temperatures there are symmetric: as the universe collapses it heats up again. So the idea of the fluid being made of some kind of antigravitational stuff seems best, something that counteracts the collapse of everything under gravity; or at least, the idea of their space being filled with something that prevents things from collapsing under gravity, which then could help prevent matter from clumping together like it does in our universe, allowing their universe to become filled with a thin fluid of matter, all of which has since been chewed up and shat out by the Undine in their conquest of that universe.
From what I understand Fluidic space was inhabited by multiple species. But 8472 destroyed all of the 'lesser' species.
But then they just agree to make peace with Voyager, makes no sense.
@@tonebonebgky2 nope it does not
@@tonebonebgky2 this wasn’t their realm, and they discovered the truth of the Borg situation. They probably went back and decided to leave well enough alone. Although for us, ever going to go to fluid space would probably get us destroyed for real next time.
Organic just means molecules that come together naturally. So an Enzyme is an organic molecule. So the fluid could just be a suspension of organic molecules up to amoebas/plankton like lifeforms.
There may be another explanation for why it doesn't collapse, or at least collapse quickly. The balance of gravity, dark matter & dark energy are different to our universe.
For example, if there's generally less Dark Matter in Fluidic Space than our universe, with the same level of gravity & Dark Energy, then feasibly any collapse would be much slower, possibly non-existent, as it would be far weaker against the expansive force of Dark Energy.
If we stopped trying to figure out made up stuff, then what the hell would we do?
Then we would have time to think up more made-up stuff.
you could try and figure out real stuff?
This was awesome. I guess I really need to make myself watch Voyager already.
Think of it like the Plane of Elemental Water from D&D.
D&D planes are really interesting, I like the way Conquest of Elysium handles them.
8:43 You're mistaking an air vacuum for a fluid vacuum. Trees use an incredibly high liquid vacuum to suck up water from roots to hundreds of feet tall. What's to say that fluidic space isn't simply a fluid vacuum.
Haha..."Also considered a bad idea that made a lot of people very angry." Hitchhike much?
I too chuckled at the reference. My favorite and often qouted line is "FORTY TWO?!"
Don’t forget your towel!
I always loved the idea of the Undine, the name given to them by the Federation. Undine in Greek mythology were the Elementals, and the name Undine became a female given name, suggesting a matriarchal, or life-giver perception by the Federation.
Fluidic space is space that is fluidic.
Really living up to that name eh? Lol
Well, it just seemed self-evident to me. :3
@@Jerkwad152 did I say you were wrong? Lol
noap
Dr. Robert Hurt (from NASA) was a guest on P1 podcasts. He believed that space itself was Synthetic Universe and was made by 8472. And gave an awesome breakdown why with science!
Anything "from fine mist to Treacle" - great description, lets go outside in our swimsuit and see :-)
Haven't seen this brought up yet, but it seems as though fluidic space is either in our universe, or there is a naturally occurring opening into it. One of the unimatrix zero drones says he's onboard a sphere at the other end of the beta quadrant "patrolling the border of fluidic space"
You're a hero bro. Thanks for creating all this...
I think that fluidic space is actuaĺly Ozzy Osbornes mind.
The Gekli (the race of the creature that latched onto the Enterprise-D until they "soured the milk" in terms of power output) also originate in Fluidic Space according to STO.
Maybe it's filled with not-so-dark matter
Brown Matter.
we also see the term singularity used in reference to Wormholes, though mostly in screen graphics on consoles. the Bajoran wormhole for example is diagrammed as having a "ring singularity"inside it, and a "point singularity" at the mouth f the wormhole. suggesting that maybe the terminology of "singularity" has changed some from our understanding of it.
Toroidal singularities form in the cores of rotating black holes. PBS Spacetime has some neat astrophysics videos on the how things get weird when they’re involved.
They are the ancestors of the Tyrannids !
The United Federation of planets is the ancestor of the Imperium of Man.
Seriously tho !! It could be AWESOME! !!
Would it be possible to use fluidic space as away to exit and enter the know universe at a chosen place or time?
I think fluidic space is just one weird reality out of multiple.
I've been reading about the so called Undine War in the background lore to Star Trek Online (the book 'The Needs of the Many' in particular)
Seems to have lasted from around 2386 to 2397 or thereabouts, with many believing it was 'over' by the end of the century. Were issues before that, with a rift forming in 2385.
Well there must be planet-like objects with a force being applied in a certain direction at least otherwise the undine wouldn't have evolved to have legs or any top/bottom distinction.
Organic doesn't have to be living
2:53. This is a ship design from Babylon-5. The living Bioship of the Vorlon. 4:00. Fluidic Space. Aren't you forgetting something about liquids? And this may be a Liquid-Gas Hybrid, there is a thing that has been proven scientifiacally, it is called surface tension. This would be as I believe, necessitate an alteration of the laws of physics to account for a slightly solid atmosephere, and would also need for you to impliment Hydrodynamics as well. 6:19. What if a Warpbubble could be used to turn a Blackhole into an access point into Fluidic Space? 8:47. What if Dusty Prater is right and this is a living complex organism and Species 8472 is actually its ammune system, they they wouldn't be in a vacuum at all. And their ships are career organisism to move them through vast distances. Also, both are living organisms. Leading to 10:00. If the inside is a bioship, then the whole thing is a Bioship, like Gumtue. Leading up to 12:00. Nothing so dramatic. it is just another Universe that exists parallel to ours and is either an organish or a very large group of life forms that react to its suroundings similarly to the way the human body reacts to microscopic lifeforms inside it. It is only on a grander scale. He is confused by this so called pssychobabbble. is because he is barking up the wrong trees and trying to make it more dramatic than it is.
What if fluid space is Q's sewer and 8472 is its 💩
For the point brought up at about 3:18, I might be able to offer some, very very tenuous explanation. If everywhere is this fluid, then there is no centre of mass which gravity can act on, every particle would be pulled just as strongly in one direction as another. Indeed, our own universe is expanding in every direction at once, from every point at once. This goes out the window though when you realise, this means there must be constant density, a point discarded when you consider things like the Undine themselves, which are definitely denser than the fluid they move through.
If we really want to stretch it really, *really* far for the sake of fixing the writing, it could be in a state analogous to the steady state theory of the universe, where dark energy and gravity have reached an equal force, cancelling each other out, assuming dark energy does still exist in this dimension.
THIS should have been the 6th Star Trek series... not Discovery
If fluidic space is infinite and homogenous on the large scale, then the gravitational force from it is 0.
At any particular point, the gravitational attraction to all the fluid in one direction is cancelled by all the fluid in the opposite direction.
If it is infinite, there is no centre for it to collapse towards.
Also, organic means is that it has carbon and probably hydrogen.
The *_Ģ Ø Ö_* dimension.
3:06 No, it wouldn't necessarily collapse. IF the fluid fills all space in that universe, then there is no place this stuff doesn't exist which means the gravitational pull exerted on and by the fluid would be equal in all directions. This is actually one of the major conundrums within physics today. The very early Universe was uniform, there were no places of higher or lower density and, if it had remained that way, none of it would have been more gravitationally attracted to any given direction and we'd never have had stars or galaxies or anything other than this uniform-density matter and energy. SOMETHING changed that, we don't know what that thing was, although the most prevalent theory was minute fluctuations in a scalar field which made very, very slight disturbances in the matter and energy that filled the universe creating slight increases in density in certain places.
The issue, of course, is that the fluid DOESN'T fill all of space in that universe, there are other things which would either be of higher or lower density as the fluid and would, therefore, mean that the fluid would be more attracted in one direction or another.
I hope you’re having a good day!😊
Jesus loves you!😊
If their universe really just started, how did they evolve to that point so quickly? Where did they build their ships, on what planet? With what resources?
5:21 Nice Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy ref.
...I love that the aperture into fluidic space from STO just happens to look like the recent first photograph of a real black hole
If the Undine were trapped in Fluidic Space, the likely culprits are: The Q, The Iconians, The Preservers, or something unknown.
Hence the Main title of the original novels, ROBO TREK, UNKNOWN.
Ive always gone with fluidic space being body of an enormous single cell, similar to the creature in TOS Immunity Syndrome. A single cell the size of several star systems and the Undine devised a way to breach the cell wall and fly through the vacuum of space to other creatures, perhaps inhabited by other intelligent lifeforms; being master of their realm could refer to their home cell, not an entire universe.
What happens when you detonate a Omega particular in fluidic space??? Food for thought
Wasn't there a DS9 episode where the station crew encountered a tiny but growing protouniverse? What if that's what eventually became the fluidic space universe we see in Voyager? Maybe I've got the timing wrong, I don't know how long the Borg have been at war with species 8472 by the time Voyager discovers them.