The King James Bible says that all that TAKE the sword shall perish with the sword. Also, if Jesus really wanted his 12 apostles to defend themselves with the sword and to kill the enemy then history would have shown us that the 12 apostles led guilds of hitmen in order to kill the persecutors of the Christians. But the bible never shows that Christians killed their persecutors. Instead the bible only has record of the apostles defending themselves with words alone and they would accept their fate as martyrs if escape was no longer an option. Their is no story of an apostle killing someone.
Well put. I can rap my head around the missionary portion of his answer. However the rest was actually quite incoherent or perhaps ignorant. Not him as a person, but his knowledge of the subject. I have heard him preach fiercely that a man has a God given soul to protect his wife. However he seems to contradict that here, Not protecting very well I’m afraid.
@@justintrammell7839 the thing about the missionary is that it isn’t from the Bible. That was a choice that they made. I am not required to do whatever some missionary tells me. Idk who this pastor in the video is but I’m immediately skeptical of any preacher who adds requirements to the Bible and holds his congregation to that arbitrary standard. Why would we put ourselves back in chains when Christ has given us freedom?
My uncle was murdered by a gun. He had never so much as fired one. Piper is wrong about living by the gun will die by the gun. If my uncle had a gun and knew how to use it he probably would’ve lived.
One thing I noticed is that Dr. Piper has a legitimate concern about taking the life of someone who is more than likely not ready to meet Christ and be judged. I admire his sentiment. However, I don't see how he can say that and be consistent in saying that he believes that there should be a military to protect our nation and policemen who, "should take out guys who are killing people." Well those, "guys who are killing people," are also more than likely not ready to meet God either. So why is it OK to think that a police officer or a soldier should kill those bad guys but not himself? It seems like it is an arbitrary line, as if God isn't in control of when each person dies and when they live. To me it sounds like he doesn't apply principles of primary and secondary causes to this particular subject matter when he would apply that principle to other things that have to do with God's sovereignty in this world. I still love Dr. Piper, I just wanted to point out a disagreement with this great man of God.
Brilliantly put. Like yourself, I greatly admire Dr John Piper, and see his point. The intention is pure, showing mercy and concern for those lost souls, but... like you pointed out, there is a logical dilemma there. Not sure I’d call it inconsistent unless these policemen start to randomly shoot people, but... wait, they’re already doing it! A small minority, admittedly, but a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
John Piper believes, based on biblical evidence, that what a nation’s government or military force is authorized to do is not the same as what the Christian in his or her own individual life is allowed to do.
He is not contracdicting himself. His is saying his gun position and desire not to kill unbelievers is a sentiment but that we are still justified in doing so if the situation calls for it. Its basicly I dont want to kill, and dont want to put myself in a situation were it becomes a likely outcome, but I do believe it to be jusfied in this situation.
@@Risk1995 you believe it to be justified in that situation, fine, but the question is how did you come to believe that? Bc you are scared decided that yourself? Or is it bc you really trusted Him with this situation and God gave you a clear mandate to kill that person.. hm. Do you think Paul and other Christians who were being hunted down and crucified weren't afraid for their lives or their families? Let that sink in. Paul witnessed the risen Christ and of course writes in the New Testimate itself. Just bc you are scared in a situation or "Fearing for your life" isn't a great excuse for us. Pacifism is agreeing with anything, and doing anything the person/ppl in control want you to. The early Christians did not quit worshipping Christ and proclaiming what they had witnessed when their own state threatened to execute them for such things, which they obviously did. Those were some hard MF's (excuse my language but it's true.) They were tougher SPIRITUALLY than what I see around me today and inside myself. I have many firearms. But in every situation I can think of, I would have two choices assuming I am armed. I would either kill the person, or die proclaiming Christ to him. Does that sound dumb? Before you answer, remember. That's what the disciples did. That's what Christ taught by setting the example Himself. I'm not saying I'm spiritually strong enough to live up to that. But we have GOT to recognize that it isn't stupidity that would drive someone to do that. It would be the Holy Spirit. Love you all, be safe.
@@jamespitts10 Scripture. They are times when we are called to make the decision you describe but that dosent mean taking a life in a self defence situation is sinful. The bible never speaks againts self defence, and that are some verses that demonstrate that its justifiable. No to mention the clear doctrine that gouverment are justerfied using force for the right reasons. Honesly s convo over video chat would go better cause this is a complex topic but yes to believe who heartly in what I wrote previously
Let me ask you this question. Years not to long ago a man walked into a texas church and started killing people clearly in a mission for the devil. A man with a gun killed that guy if the guy didnt have a gun didnt shoot the bad guy with a gun he would have killed everyone in that church on the fact he wasnt going to heaven. What if the people the bad guy was killing was not yet saved but was there to do so lost their life and couldnt give their life to christ because that pastor said no you cant have a gun to protect the flock of the church?
Living by the sword (gun) being compared to people having guns at home to protect their family is the most profound misinterpretation of that verse. The one living by the sword is he who invades the home with one and not the one who protects his family with one
Us firearm owners do so to protect our family and the innocent. There may be a theif willing to kill someone in your home who isn't ready to go to heaven yet either.
Sure. I'm not against guns either per se but ask yourself this: did Jesus, the apostles or Paul have any firearms and if not the ask yourself why? I agree that one should be able to protect one's family but what is happening on the political scale right now has absolutely nothing to do with Christ. Rely on God for protection and revenge instead of relying on your self.
@@JayReacio No, one of them had a sword at least at one occasion. And it was pointed out by Jesus that he shouldn't use it unless he was willing to die by it too. That said. Weapons, police, soldiers etc. is not condemned by God. But the Bible isn't choosing a political side on that matter either. Our kingdom is not of this world.
@@pyramusk3264 Jesus also told his disciples if they did not have a sword they should sell their cloaks to buy one, I don’t suppose you believe he said that believing they would be using the sword for cutting up steaks or fillet mignon? This isn’t political, it’s merely about affirming what the Bible says implicitly in many places, that one has the right to defend oneself. Paul even tells husbands that if they fail to provide for their families they are worse than unbelievers, part of that provision as the stronger sex includes protection, and the most viable option for our times is a firearm. Furthermore, if you affirm that we have the right to defend yourself and others (love your neighbors as yourself) then you should also ask yourself if you believe that this right extends to defending yourself against governments devoid of God’s righteous laws. If let’s say you were in a country where they were killing millions of Jews, or millions of babies, or enslaving a certain people, would not love for your neighbor compel you to defend the widows and orphans? If so, then you should will to have the same weaponry that the government has. I don’t feel all warm and fuzzy at the thought of a godless pagan state being the only ones with weaponry, but more regenerate believers in Jesus who have good moral consciences carrying instruments of justice that does ease my mind.
@@pyramusk3264 ask myself why Jesus and the apostles didn't have guns?? They weren't invented till 1,000 years later... Come on, you have to know that. Exodus also talks about killing a man that breaks into your house at night. But also, in the country I use firearms to protect my chickens and goats from predators and love joining with friends and shooting. Turn the other cheek is about insults. Also, Jesus told Peter not to use the sword because Jesus HAD to be crucified so his attempts at defending him had no place in that situation. Live by the sword die by the sword means those who are violent. This is about self defense.
I recently read his 12 page article summarizing his conversations with Jerry Falwell Jr. As much as I admire John Piper and his Biblical acumen, he is confusing victimhood with martyrdom. The mistake he makes is assuming that any and all assaults will end in death to the victim. Would he think an assault is so wonderful if his wife and daughters, instead of being killed and going to be with Jesus, were raped, sodomized and left alive to live with the aftermath? We know that all things worked together for good for those who are the called, but would he really allow something so horrible to happen without any resistance? If not, then to what level of resistance would he go? We are called to subdue evil in this world, not succumb to senseless violence and assault. And a side note, I would like to know if he and/or his family has ever been the victim of a senseless assault, to know if he has put his theory to practice. And yes, we must be respectful and loving in our replies. One last thing; he mentions about the perpetrator going to hell, what about the person or persons who do not know Christ, that would be his victim(s)? Do they not deserve to be protected to live another day for the opportunity to be eventually be converted? I am surprised at how poorly he extrapolated the possible outcomes. Also, it's ok for an officer to put his life on the line to protect his family, possibly lose his life so that his family is preserved and the officer's family is destroyed, if he could get there in time to protect his family. Again, so poorly thought out. I hope he comes to his senses and a Biblical understanding of his responsibility to protect his family. Nothing admirable about being a victim... martyr yes, victim no. Ecclesiastes 3:1, 3; To everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven... A time to kill... we MUST take the whole counsel of the Word, and shape our views, not shape the Bible to our views.
What business an intruder has or hasn’t done with Christ before threatening me or my family is not under my control. Missionaries, are a different context that’s unrelated to home invasion...Jesus doesn’t want his kingdom advanced at the point of the sword, or the barrel of a gun, but we are called to protect life and the Bible leaves the means we use to do so with ambiguous.
"those who live by the sword will die by the sword" ..... why would you apply that to the person merely having the tool available to defend themselves if necessary, and not to the violent attacker attempting to rape and murder his victim? Also, the context of Jesus' statement suggests strongly that it was a point about the police state of Rome, and the guards committing an injustice against Christ and the disciples. Jesus comforted Peter with those words, essentially saying, don't worry, the tyrants will get their due....
"I'm not a pacifist but I'm not going to kill anybody even if that means my daughter gets raped and killed, and I also approve military and policemen killing people who kills people". Okay, it sounds a bit of contradictory your answer.
That's an interesting take on the subject that I have never heard before, and I was almost convinced until I thought it through and weighed it against scripture. Nowhere, do I find that we as Christians make the determination of whether someone goes to Heaven or Hell, other than to go into all the world and preach the gospel, and to love others as we love ourselves. That determination is made between every individual and God, alone. God himself established the consequences of sin, and if someone is engaging in criminal behavior, and on the verge of murder, I can scarcely conceive that any responsibility for that person's fate lies with the defender.
You are absolutely right. Salvation is a personal choice to trust in Christ as your Savior. It is the christian's responsibility to share the Gospel and the work of the Holy Spirit to bring people to understand and trust in that truth of the Gospel.
Yup. I agree here. Of course if you can avoid killing the person you should but that's not always possible. Plus, there are plenty of other things besides just straight up killing someone that a criminal could do. Maybe your daughter is saved so if she were killed she'd be in a good place but what if the criminal were not there to steal your possessions but capture her for child slavery. You're ok with this happening so you don't have to use lethal force?
Always love John but if I hear this “shoot him in the leg idea” one more I’m going to scream. If you go to a range and shoot a handgun, get a body size target and show me,oh show me, if you can ever hit him in the leg. That’s with a still target. Now picture the real human being moving, and tunnel vision ensues, and the heart rate goes sky high, while accuracy drops thru the floor. Then tell me you hit his leg. Ain’t going to happen. Too much TV my friends.
"if I hear this “shoot him in the leg idea” one more I’m going to scream" Thank Roy Rogers. Hollywood has really, _really_ screwed up the average person's comprehension of what guns are and how to properly use them.
If you are good enough to hit someone in the leg reliably, then you are smart enough to know they will bleed out in seconds from disruption of the femoral artery. If they are armed with a firearm, they can still murder those around them during those remaining seconds.
First time I have EVER disagreed with Dr. Piper! But I am moved by his "not ready to see Jesus" position. I'm just not that guy. The ONLY thing that stops an evil man with a gun, is a righteous man with a gun.
I admire John Piper, but I do not agree with the recent article that he wrote. As a gun owner, if someone we're to attack me or my family, I would not hesitate to shoot them.
Yes, I agree. Just the fact that he thinks he would hesitate to protect his daughter/family in that situation is ridiculous. If someone tries to break into my house or hurt my loved ones, you better believe I'll shoot them. They're a scumbag anyway.
I dont like the way the article is written but cnt fault it him for what he says in the video. I wosent under the impression he would hesitate to protect his family, he just has no desire to kill and isent fond of putting yourself in and position were that becomes much easier to do. I dont share his sentiment but I most defenly understand it and appreciate that in this video he is making clear that this is a personnel convinction and not a biblical donctrine.
Do you carry auto insurance? Are you a bad driver? Firearms are tools that can be used for good or evil. Look up Exodus 22:2, Nehemiah 4:13-14. There are other scriptures that address the right to self defense. Jesus teaching on "turning the other cheek" in the Sermon on the Mount is about insults, not defending oneself. The concept is absolutely biblical.
Slap on the cheek is a physical attack bro. Jesus said to not resist an evil person. When someone slaps u on the cheek Jesus is not concerned about your tingling slap or ding in your pridefulness, Jesus trips about one’s humility and love for your neighbor and to love your enemies and to pray for them
Luke 22:36 KJV “Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it , and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” Jesus Christ: 1 John Piper: 0
That verse is prophecy fulfillment, not about self defense. Jesus did not have 2 of the 11 disciples get swords to defend Jesus, when Jesus clearly is making the prophecy happen. Jesus was making Himself look like a criminal to be arrested (which obviously happened) and therefore put on trail to be sentenced to the cross. That verse is used too often in the wrong sense.
You'll definantly call the gun toting sinners to protect your daughter though...are they ready to go to hell? Someone's gotta do it. It's your duty to protect your daughter no different than the duty of a police officer.
No different? Really? Are you authorized to investigate suspicious actions? Do you have the color of law when you commit an action? Are you exempt from review and judgment?
@@StephenMatlock So can I ask, if Christians should not defend themselves, why there are bible verses in the bible such as Exodus 22:2, Luke 22:36 that talks abouy self defense. If your not gonna answer it, you are definitely a LIAR
Don't forget Isaiah 1:17 and Psalms 82. As one who is fatherless with fatherless siblings and a widowed mother, I promise to go full friggin Doomguy mode on anyone who would harm my family. As God has a zero tolerance policy for those who prey on the fatherless, widowed and all other innocents.
I’m sorry - I cannot see anything “righteous” in allowing yourself to be killed if your family or property - and yes, yourself - are under assault by criminals with murderous intent. Taking a life in self defense is completely different than taking the life of someone who’s home you’ve invaded or taking a life in a planned out, premeditated murder.
@@StephenMatlock that is an individual choice. But the right to use violence to protect property is essential because otherwise there would be no ownership of anything. Anyone could take anything from anyone. That would be condoning theft and that would be wrong.
ok, so the average citizen shouldnt...but youre ok with law enforcement shooting a thief who will PROBABLY go to hell. You REALLY made a mess with this answer. A cop can send a thief to hell...but you think anyone else possibly doing so in self defense makes them likely to also "die by the gun" Listen to your answer..its very confused, sir! also, the second amendment and our right to bear arms and resist tyranny has existed WAY longer than "recently" and that includes folks being able to have them privately. hundreds of years ago...this was legal. Never changed. You say with one breath youre not a pascifist, and with the next you are promoting police shooting the same man you wont? God said something very different on this subject. An intruder, in the night...hus blood is on his OWN hands. period!
But many intruders with guns have entered into dwellings, shot and killed individuals and family members who were also not ready for heaven. I can understand if you as a Christian want to lay down your life for a sinful intruder. And there is the question of a man who has the responsibility of raising a family. His first job is to be there and raise his kids up in the lord. If he wanted to be a martyr he should have stayed single. Its a tough call. I had a gun for awhile and thought this through myself. Though, I'm single and can afford to die. A family man not so much. A gun can be a great way or the only way to defuse a situation. After, the crimmal is stopped, and frequently not through death, you can always go down to the jail and share the gospel with them. Get them on your prayer list.
I’m not agonizing over this. If I or my family is attacked, someone is getting shot. If that person is me then so be it. The intention is to neutralize the threat. If they choose to die, then so be it. I’d prefer non-violence but, if I am faced with violence then at 5’5” 180lbs, I’m bringing greater violence. I’m not walking around looking for a fight worse a “fair” fight. Why is this even a debate?
Exactly, it all about stopping the evil in its tracks. Not really about killing an intruder. No one needs to rob or steal to begin with. Totally unnecessary.
I would like to submit a thought here. Recently I heard the Holy Spirit say to me "My people are still choosing Barabaas'. I had to do some research but this is what I found out. Barabaas' name means son of the Father. Many secular historians have him listed as "Yeshua Barabaas". It is highly likely, by my findings, that there was 2 men standing with the exact same name!!!! What what they choosing when they chose Barabaas. A Zealot and revolutionary who was fighting Rome intrusion into Jerusalem with swords and violence. He was a political activist, a revolutionary. All the while Yeshua was teaching Sermon on the Mount. Why did the nation miss there time of visitation? Several reasons but one of them is they were looking for a conquering King. For me and my house I choose Yeshua, not barabaas. And yes, I am supportive of the 2nd amendment. Blessings
When asked if he would protect his daughter he answered, “Probably.” Wow! I know he is a brother in Christ and loves the Lord, but that is a shameful response to that question as a father. He has given very wise biblical answers to so many questions and topics over the years, but he is way off in liberal left field and out of bounds Scripturally on this one.
rjm7630 he definitely does not have a warriors heart. There are many people that would gladly rape and murder his daughter in front of him and he can somehow sleep on that fact without the slightest provocation to purchase a weapon for the defense of the innocent.
@@BereanBeliever86 This man and myriads of millions of others, overlook the promise of Almighty God, that He will never allow us to be tempted above what we are able to endure. "God, who faithfully keeps his promises, will not allow you to be tempted beyond your power to resist. But when you are tempted, he will also give you the ability to endure the temptation as your way of escape. " 1 Corinthians 10:13 (GW)
John Piper seems to be a genuinely caring individual. (most people on the gun control side of the gun debate are) He also seems to be suffering from one important shortcoming that most people on the gun control side of the debate also suffer from - ignorance on the subject. Guns are used about 40,000 times per year to end a life in the United States. About 2/3 of those are suicides, and the bulk of the rest are murders. Very few of those deaths - are the result of a gun being used in self defense. This is not to say that guns are seldom used successfully in self defense or to prevent crimes. The CDC (a decidedly anti-2A organization) studied this and concluded that guns are used in self defense or to stop crimes between 500,000 and 2.5 million times per year. The vast majority of these cases are done without firing a shot, and with NOBODY getting injured. If you want to avoid violence - have a gun. Every household should own at least one AR-15 type of weapon to prevent crime, and to save lives of those in the home as well as any intruders. If my wife and I are walking - and two men try to rob us - if I am unarmed, some (or all) of us are going to the hospital. If I am armed though, probably NONE of us will get a scratch. THE Christian thing to do to be a peacemaker, is to own and carry firearms.
I think the verse that talks about those who live by the sword shall die by the sword refers to murderers if you ask me.. Plenty of cops and military veterans have came out alive and died of heart attacks and other reasons. So that's pretty obvious it doesn't pertain to people who are using them for the right reasons.
There's a difference between killing and murder. People kill during war, and people kill defending their family, property and themselves. I'm a gun owner and I pray that it never comes to having to use deadly force. Murder is the taking of one's life, just to take it. I truly believe I have a God given right to defend myself and my loved ones if necessary. As a Marine Corps veteran, I swore an oath before God to serve, to protect and to defend the constitution of the United States of America against enemies foreign and domestic...and that oath has no expiration date.
Jim Elliott, Nate Saint, etc. were amazing heroes of the faith. However, they would have been absolutely justified in shooting every single one of natives that attacked them.
John Piper is confusing martyrdom with self-defense. His long answer was contradictory and confusing. It’s terrible he never used scripture. The Bible makes killing in self-defense, particularly when at home at night, very clear: “If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.” Exodus 22:2
Another thing, Peter had been carrying a sword probably way before the time that he drew it. And he had been following Jesus for a while. So it only stands to reason that if Jesus didn’t want him to carry it, he would have told Peter to take it off much earlier. He just didn’t want Peter to live by it.
Well, that is odd coming from Calvinist John Piper that says he believes in predestination. If a man breaks into your home to harm you, or your family, and you defend yourself, and your family, with a gun and the man dies and goes to hell then guess what? The man was not predestined to go to heaven. Why is it that Piper's theology does not work in real life on this issue?
And if you don't kill that guy and he kills you, guess what: that was predestined by God too. What reasoning is that? So because God sends a robber to your house that means he wants you to kill him? The point Piper was making is that if you are a Christian, it is not bad for you to die. Remember the apostle Paul? He said for me to live is Christ and to die is gain. But if the robber dies he's going straight to hell. Of course it would be predetermined by God if that were the case, but the blood would be on your hands. I would much rather die and go to heaven than to live and send a person who doesn't know Christ to hell. Who knows? Maybe after your death the robber or whoever wanted to harm you will get converted. And what a win that will be for the kingdom of Christ! Such a small price to pay for a soul's salvation.
When Jesus said Those who live by the sword will die by the sword, he was talking about violence. He was saying, those who live by violence will die by violence. Jesus never said you could not carry a sword either. There are many people who carry the gun but don't live by it. Just my two cents. 🤷. I do still love Dr. Piper though. Good man, with a good heart
Jesus also told his disciples to sell their cloaks to buy a sword. For looks? Intimidation? To run after animals to kill them for food? No. Jesus knew they might be physically threatened. Self defense has always been permitted. You should always try to give that threat a chance to run away, or talk to them (if possible), but not standing up to evil isn’t right either.
I have no problem with people owning guns. I do have a problem with people trying to kill me with guns. Or knives or spears or anything else. People have tried to kill me with guns. I was armed and faster. Long time ago and far, far away.
Oh look, it's woke John Piper. He immediately gives an example different from the question asked. I wonder how his wife and daughter feel knowing his answers
This man and myriads of millions of others, overlook the promise of Almighty God, that He will never allow us to be tempted above what we are able to endure. "God, who faithfully keeps his promises, will not allow you to be tempted beyond your power to resist. But when you are tempted, he will also give you the ability to endure the temptation as your way of escape. " 1 Corinthians 10:13 (GW)
Wow, that's a lot of hate here in the comments. So many obviously didn't even listen to the video. Those of you who claim to be Christian, please behave like one, even if you disagree. "speak the truth in love"
Dale Dunn I agree, So many times I see brother's an sister's disagree on whatever the topic may be. An to many times its hateful an insulting. We are family I know We won't always agree with each other but no topic despite how deep or ridiculous it may Be should ever make us forget that an drive a wedge between us an Make us talk to one another harshly an without Love. I don't necessarily Agree with Brother piper on this or alot of other brother's an sister's but I Love him an them an can see where they're coming from as well, thxs for Commenting brother I Love You all G-d bless 👍.
Right on cue here's the virtue signalling Christian, "Whats with all the hateful comments?" comment. Just because you take a dump on people in Christianese doesn't mean you aren't doing the same thing as the people whose Christianity you question.
If you’re a Christian, you shouldn’t have to intentionally “behave” like one. That’s what we call religion and legalism. When we know Jesus, He changes us on the inside, and consequently, the “behavior” happens naturally as a result. Anyways, food for thought. Cheers!
Not one scriptural reference in support of his position except at the very end where he misapplies Matt 26:52. Using Pipers argument, the children of Israel should have not killed the Pagans of the nations occupying the promised land. Using Pipers argument, Jesus was wrong when he told the disciples to sell their cloak to buy a sword… Sadly, when he tries to say owning a gun is akin to living by the sword is the same as the Devil twisting scripture when temping Jesus.
I thought owning, carrying, and protecting yourself or others with a sword was NOT living by it. The sword lives by you and your ability to wield it wisely, swiftly, and effectively. On that same note, I live by the sword of the Spirit Hebrews 4:12. Either of these swords can be used inappropriately. I have thought and stated on many occasions, that in a conflict, I would be willing to die, if it meant that my aggressor was able to come to the truth. However, I can't say that I know what is right, but as a gun owner, avid hunter, and recreational shooter, I can't wait to beat my guns into plowshares. I came hear because I feel God is calling me to sell my guns, though I need to continue in prayer to be clear what is being asked. My heart is very heavy to clear my life of all of my belongings and prepare for a new thing. I would encourage you all to follow Proverbs 3.
Jesus told his disciples if they did not have a sword, to go sell their cloak and buy one. Self defense is a God given right! It is right and good, even your enemy has the same right to self defense. A gun is an equalizer of force, it allows an old man and young woman to be able to defend themselves against a peak conditioned thug! Everyone able to defend themselves equally, allows for civilization to flourish! It's beautiful, all people restraining their impulses and not attacking anyone, because they know it won't be successful....
But than the master also said in Matthew 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
while true, as God commanded Israel in the old testament, they were brutal to their enemies, killing thousands to millions of people. God said their sins where more atrocious then the Israelite. I don't think its our place to be the judge, but i will stop someone if they were going steal etc. i would attempt to not kill, but injure. Although that sounds iffy ill just have to ask God if or when it happens to me.
Falcon yep i 100% agree with you. I mean in another verse it does say to sell your cloak to equip yourself with a sword, but that obviously doesn't mean attacking or instigating harm on others, more than defense of yourself and others.
...And how many more souls were lost because these missionaries didn't defend themselves, when they could have, and continue the work that God called them too?
That question is not even worth asking. Their efforts at sharing the gospel do not save anyone. That is the work of God, of whom they were servants. Would you ask about Jesus willingness to open not his mouth or defend himself in his trial and crucifixion, “how many more souls were lost because he didn’t defend himself, when he could have worked and taught the people further?” Those men chose to have faith in both the vengeance and mercy of God, believing he was capable of using their deaths to bring glory to himself, even saving their killers if he desired. They trusted him to make right the wrong, they did not take it into their own hands. And they should be commended for it. Had they chosen to defend themselves, that isn’t necessarily sinful. Whatever is not from faith is sin. For it is impossible to please God without faith. These men chose to act in faith. Praise God.
I am a Bible believing Christian. I am also a prior service marine and a law enforcement officer. This is something that I had to make peace with a long time ago. The Bible says many things in this regard. The most important thing I have taken from it is we are all called for many things and different things. You may be called to be a martyr for Christ and if that is the case you should be honored. You may be called to be a protector and take life in that calling. You should be honored for that too. It is not for me or anyone else to tell you what your calling is and what you are called to do. Nor is it for you to tell me mine. If you don't like what one or the other is called to then that is on you not on them not on God. If what your being called for is against the Bible then that's not a calling it's your own pride and your own agenda. The Bible calls for both protectors, military, in the service of justice, even to fight tyranny, and those that are called to pacifism, martyrdom, and to suffer greatly for Christ. All of these are important. I believe that I was called to the sword/ firearm for Christ and if that means I am to die by the sword/ firearm for Christ then so be it. I'm ok with that. May God bless and be with you all.
"Those who live by the gun will die by the gun" . This is the most stupid conclusion that I ever heard from Piper. If we take that at face value then that means we should ban cops and all law enforcement personnel. I'm sure he doesn't believe that, but his last sentence was simply ridiculous. Over the years, I have noticed he has slowly become more soft and social justice friendly. Just listen to his wordy and flawed talks on "critical race theory"
We might not need the police that we have. We just accept it because it was here when we arrived, so to speak. Some countries do not have police armed with lethal weapons. Some countries do not have such violent police officers. Just because we live with this policing doesn't mean it's right and good. It might be a very wicked implementation of the desire for accountability.
Maybe if you Calvinist would just read the bible instead of the wisdom of man you could see what God said about having a weapon and self defense Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. Exodus 22 2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. Deuteronomy 23:13And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee: And many more
Maybe if you would exercise basic hermaneutics and exegetical study you would know that Luke 22:36 was a foreshadowing of the disciples' persecution and tribulation which was to come not an excuse to become trigger-happy, conflict-searching Christians. My suggestion for you would also to be careful of judging people because of their soteriological standpoint rather than their character, and from what I saw from this video...I only saw a man exercising love and compassion. Blessings to you brother in Christ!
I am a staunch Calvinist, and be believe we are responsible for the choices we make in this life. If we chose to commit evil upon other people, the consequences may be that we are shot and killed. God's sovereignty walks hand in hand with man's responsibility.
Not wanting to kill an assailant who is likely not ready to meet Jesus is the very reason we train to "shoot to stop the threat" rather than "shoot to kill."
First off I carry most everywhere I go. I pray I never have to shoot someone or kill someone. But I see no Biblical problem with defending oneself or one’s family or any innocent person. You also used a verse at the end speaking of anyone who lives by the sword will die by the sword. Jesus stated that when Peter was trying to defend Him even though Peter had been told that Jesus would be killed. Jesus had to go to the cross and Peter was trying to stand in the way of that. Jesus was stating that those who go around using a sword at will will die by a sword. He wasn’t stating that a person could never defend themselves. In Luke 22 Jesus tells his disciples who do not have a sword to get one. I have yet to have someone tell me why Jesus told his disciples to get swords.
Sin in the world makes many issues like this a "damned if you do /damned if you dont" dilemma. I dont think there is 1 right answer. Like Rahab, we make our best choice in good faith and rely on Gods mercy.
I clearly don’t understand the reasoning with his logic. I really respect John Piper on everything but self preservation. He literally said we have the police and the military to take bad guys out....these people are you and me. They aren’t everywhere all the time...self preservation isn’t murder. It’s stopping the threat and protecting our family and ourselves from people with bad intentions. I understand “live by the sword, and die by the sword” I understand “Thou shall not murder....”...I don’t understand...thou shall be a victim. I placed my hope and faith in Jesus Christ. I’m ready to die. I’m not scared of dying. I feel as a Christian I’m here to defend the Faith, Glorify God, and protect those that I love. Some Christians seem to seek suffering for their own insecurities it seems because Jesus told his disciples they will suffer in his name and some will be martyred. Well that is certainly true. It is also certainly true that without protecting our loved ones Because we misunderstand self protection is very failing at discernment and wisdom. Peter carried a sword...Jesus told his disciples to carry a sword because he wouldn’t be there to protect them any longer...protection and murder are two separate intentions and motivations. People that are anti-gun will use this for their benefit and people that are pro-gun will disagree. But this seems to be a personal choice...but people are influenced by John Piper’s personal choices...there’s more to be discussed on this....
I think you might misunderstand him from this video. One of the things I like about it is that is drawing a difference between his conviction and the law aspect of it. What he is saying in a nutshell his he stays away from gun because it makes alot easier to kill someone i that situation. He dosent say its wrong to kill to protect self or loved ones (says he is not a pacifist) just that he believes its un wise to have a fire arm because it makes too easy. I dont share his conviction but i dont see how you can make and honest argument againts gun right off him. He isent refencing should people have the right to defend themself with fire arms he is saying he believes its un wise to own one for that reason.
I do like the way that Piper seems to try to wrestle with this issue honestly. This is not an easy topic. On the one hand, Jesus does say that those who take up the sword will die by the sword (Matt 26:52), and he tells us not to resist an evildoer (Matt 5:39). On the other hand, he tells his disciples to sell their robes and buy a sword if they don't have one (Luke 22:36). I think there is nothing wrong in principle with having a gun for self-defense. But I also think that American gun laws should be significantly tightened, for the simple reason that the murder rate by guns and also the overall murder rate are so much higher in the US than in all other Western countries. And law enforcement officers are far more likely to die in the line of duty than in all other Western countries too. If you make it easy to buy guns, then it is easy for criminals and psychopaths to get guns. And the danger from this far outweighs the benefit of the good guys having guns, unless you stay at home and almost never go out. I think banning handguns is probably a good goal to aim for. It may seem counter-intuitive, but I think this would actually make people much safer. Maybe keep a shotgun at home for self-defense.
I I see your comment is over two years old. I would say this is a spiritual problem why are so many murdering each other. I believe with a ban violent crime would go up as it did over 30% in the uk with there gun laws tightening. We would follow there trend especially a much higher rate of home invasions, like they have. We have always had a higher rate of murder than most western countries from data going back up to two centuries. Even with several European countries having very loose gun control up until recently. As a side note there are several European countries loosening there gun laws Poland and Czech Republic come to mind. In a gun ban in the us law abiding citizens who are not criminals would hand in there guns. The criminals would keep there’s. Then because of how many guns we have in this country there would be many very well armed criminals for decades And crime would go up. There would eventually after many decades of gun bans be less gun deaths. The violence would merely migrate to knife violence and screw driver violence. Just look at London’s high stabbing rate. And London’s murder rate is climbing so I don’t see a correlation between Less gun = less murder. Just means less murder with guns. More murder with other weapons. As a side note I would rather be shot than stabbed. Any older person or female would be more vulnerable to violence as they would they would have no recourse on ownership of a firearm to make up for there disparity of force in a violent altercation. I don’t believe our violent nation would change just because firearms disappeared from the hands of law abiding citizens. We need to turn to God not worry so much about an object.
I think there’s a difference between a person who is called by god for ministry in field is prepared in many cases to not carry guns at all depends on what there lead you do these are soldiers for god pastors and priests different than a citizen with family. God gave us common sense for a reason, scripture wise it’s touchy for sure both sides accounted for .
This makes no sense at all. In Piper's article, "should Christians be encouraged to arm themselves" he provides 10 points to prove they should not. However, much of his argument belies the content and reality of the OT. Secondly, his position is in conflict with his theology which teaches the elect of God will be saved. Therefore, if he shoots and kills his daughter's assailant, would God say, "Oh nuts, you ruined everything. I was going to save that man and now you've messed everything up." I don't think so.
Peter bought a sword because Jesus told him to for prophecy fulfillment. Rememer when Peter cut a person's ear off and Jesus said "Enough of this?" The only reason, like I have mentioned for the reason of having a swrod, was so Jesus can fulfill the prophecy of being put to death. Jesus made Himself look like a criminal to the Pharisees when 2 disciples carried sword. Jesus did not want to be defended. Why would the SON OF GOD need to be protected by mortal men?
Nick A. I carry a gun to defend my family more than myself. I believe it is wrong not to protect the innocent when you are capable. I don’t want to protect the violent predators as John seems to want to do, I want to protect the innocent. This world is an evil place and God has given us the means to protect ourselves and honestly the Bible makes no clear direction either way on this subject.
@@RexNicolaus you’re making an assumption without evidence. You’re welcome to abided by such a flimsy standard but don’t demand that others do so as well.
Love your enemies, forgive those who use and persecute you; the day of forgiveness is at hand. Forgive them all! All who take up the sword shall perish by the sword! Don't let your zeal blind you to the truth! Heaven will not be built by murder and uprisings! The Love and Wisdom of God will fill the Earth as water fills the sea, the lion will lie down with the lamb, there will be no more killing or destroying; and the voice of weeping should be heard no more.
The Bible will keep you in endless theological circles about this and so many other topics. Sometimes it's easier to just step back and use common sense. I guess that's wrong though by Christian standards.
I'm a Catholic . The Catholic Bishop shot the death in his bed. That was a terrible thing that happened if I was on the jury I would not ask for the depth penalty Because it's a catholic We believe Showing mercy What I would vote for life and prison without the possibility of parole . And I'll take it a step further I would not confide that person .
Matthew 26:52 This verse is a condemnation of self-willed aggression. It has nothing to do with self-defense or the proper use of the criminal justice system. Peter was rebuked by the Lord because of violent aggression with a weapon. Someone useing a weapon to stop a criminal forcefully entering their home to harm them or their family is self-defense.
4:50 that's what Jesus said Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52 KJV
@Mikael Yashuah Donoso having it doesnt have to be a sin, but the way you live with it. I live in the Netherlands so having a gun isn't common. So I don't have that much experience in having a gun to protect myself. But I just want trust God for my safety. And ofcourse I want to protect my family, I want to stand up if ai have to. But I don't want to live by the Sword, trust it more than God and I don't want to compensate evil with evil (1 Petrus 3:9 and Romans 12:17). If God says you are good with the way you live with it, I can't not be alright with that.
@Mikael Yashuah Donoso I understand what you are saying, but not every invader wants to kill. That may not always be the case, but in this life you can trust Jesus for having what you need. Jesus said: if someone steals your coat, give him your shoes. I just dont think it's necassary. Protecting yourself from harm is good, God is a righteous God. Killing a invader before he attacks, idk it depends on the situation, God is all knowing. Just dont over do it (the phenomon of having Guns).
@Mikael Yashuah Donoso compared to America gun Violence almost isn't a problem. You're not allowed to have a gun, only when you get a license. It's very hard to get a gun. Sometimes there is a shooting from a psychopath, but very rarely. Besides that it's only in the Criminal circuit. I read an Article that in the Netherlands annualy, 3,3 people out of a million get shot. It's just not a big problem, if you dont live in the Criminal circuit you dont have to worry about anything.
Hey John Piper, have you even thought the issue out? How about YOUR responsibility as a Christian to keep yourself alive, that you may live to convert thousands of others to the faith?? Same thing with those missionaries shooting into the air. They were so selfish that they treated themselves to a quick premature trip to Heaven, while denying their services to everyone they could have witnesses to had they lived. Amazing that you can't grasp that. Your lack of discernment on this issues forced me to reconsider everything that you have ever said.
With all due respect and with regard to your comment about "those missionaries", please take some time to read about their lives and how their deaths actually accomplished so much for the Kingdom of God that perhaps their lives may not have (but who knows, really). If you can find it, "The Savage, My Kinsman" tells the entire story and not just their deaths. Or you can google Jim Elliot or Elizabeth Elliot (his widow) on line and see the whole story. John Piper shared only that small piece of a much bigger story (I'm guessing) as an illustration for the point he was making about guns. I think their deaths are a perfect picture of what Jesus meant in John 12:24. I sincerely hope that learning about these amazing men, their courageous widows, and the resulting conversion of an entire people group will be a blessing to you as it has been to so many of us.
God wants us to defend from evil. See David vs Goliath. David certainly wasn’t a warrior; moreover, he didn’t “live by the sword”. However, David did train to defend. Scripture tells us he defended his flock from bear and lion. David was also “armed” by his faith.
The only thing I disagree with is that people should probably go out an buy a gun if they want to, but his reasoning on not killing is very biblical. We should never seek to kill even those who want us dead as individuals. Stopping them is one thing, but intentionally killing them is another. There are simply too many unknown variables to know whether or not you should kill the attacker that has come in your house. Buying a gun, however, should not be done out of fear, as though you suspect someone will come into your home soon. I've never owned a gun, I live in the south, and crime has happened in my neighborhood. I like guns, but people are too gung-ho in in this country.
Why does Christ Jesus use the word SWORD in Luke 22:36 as FIGURATIVELY and not a literal sword?... because St. Paul explained in his Epistle (Hebrews 4:12) that the "Word of God" is Powerful, Living and Active, sharper than any two (2) edged SWORD, that can cut/pierce (separate/divide) the Soul and the Spirit... (and so on)"... Praise be to God... Amen.
But they then showed Jesus that they already had two swords and he said it’s enough. Also why would he say to sell your coat to buy a sword if the sword is solely a reference to the word of God? That would mean Jesus would have been saying, “Sell your coat to buy the Word” that seem illogical.
@@danielviets4427 Ask yourself a serious question... Why do we need to sell our CLOAK (coat, garment, robe, cloth, etc.) to buy a SWORD (singular), if we have money?... why only one Sword, and not as many swords we can buy from our money?... because the passage in Luke 22:36, "Sell your CLOAK (garment/cloth/robe, etc.) and BUY a SWORD" is not LITERAL PASSAGE in context and meaning... Biblically speaking, Cloth, Cloak, Coat, Garments, and Robes most often symbolized STATURE and STATUS OF LIVING... analogy, for example... if you dress up properly, clean or your clothes are expensive you are WEALTHY, but if your clothes are worn out and dirty (sack clothe), most probably you are poor... Spiritually speaking, clothes, cloaks, garments, etc... needed to cover man's nakedness with either Righteousness of God or the Evilness of Satan... In the Book of Revelation, those who will be RAPTURED will be given a White GARMENTS/ROBES washed by the BLOOD of the LAMB (Christ Jesus)... In conclusion, we need to SELL (give up) our CLOAK/COAT (Sinful Life Stature/Status in Society) to BUY (acquire the knowledge) a SWORD (Word of God)... Amen.
@@jvlp2046 you’re not making any sense. The word sword being singular doesn’t have to mean that the word sword must therefore be figurative. If the command was to each individual then the word being singular is appropriate. You’re also making an assumption that one individual owning multiple swords would be helping which isn’t necessarily true. To defend yourself one sword is sufficient. You don’t need several. I think you need to read more up on history my friend. This isn’t fantasy.
@@danielviets4427 Hebrews 4:12/paraphrased... narrates that the "WORD of God" is compared like a DOUBLE (2) Edged SWORD (singular)... "For the Word of God is LIVING and ACTIVE, SHARPER that any 2 Edged SWORD (singular) that can CUT/PIERCE (divide) the Soul and Spirit of man"... Christ Jesus is the "WORD of God" that was compared like a double edge SWORD... Facts and Truth, Biblically speaking... Amen.
@@danielviets4427 If you still can not understand and comprehend why the passage was not a literal CLOAK and SWORD but metaphorically (figuratively) even providing you with Biblical proofs (supporting verses)... perhaps because of DANIEL 12:10/paraphrased... "the WICKED shall never understand but only those who are WISE"... Amen.
This video should have been titled "A Pacifist who identifies as a non-pacifist" James 1:8 (KJV) A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 4:17 (KJV) Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Exodus 22:2 (WEB) If the thief is found breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt of bloodshed for him.
The answer is yes. There should never be a probably when you are talking about protecting your children. God gave them to you to protect them. Also, the 2nd amendment says the right of the people not the right of the militia. The Supreme Court got it right that it is our right to keep and bear arms. Jesus said if you don't have a sword to sell your cloak and buy one. This was not a butter knife it was a defensive weapon and could be used as such.
If the government says that it's legal to kill somebody in self defense, than that's obeying the law. Piper, deep down inside, is a liberal orthodox. I always knew there was something about him that I didn't quite trust but couldn't put my finger on.
And living by the gun is euphemism for trusting the gun to be your savior... it would be like Someone telling Noah live by the hammer and nail die by the hammer and nail ....... Noah trusted god and used the hammer and nail to build the ark and prepare for the coming storm
While I’m at it Anyone who has read the New Testament probably has noticed the respect and admiration Jesus expressed for certain Roman Centurions encountered during his ministry And Jesus was a Jew and Rome had this really unpleasant thing going on at the time for Jews in general. It also appears that the foundational books of the Old Testament make a strong distinction between killing and “murder” I believe you will find that the original Hebrew text uses the work kill and not murder in the Ten Commandments Katherine, my daughter and best friend of over 40 years now, to this day comes to me whenever trouble and hardship approach She never has had to even give a second thought about seeking my advice and help. Nor have I ever had a doubt providing it Judgement is indeed the Lords Sometimes however the good Lord will use some of us , the lowly, uneducated unwashed masses, to arrange the meeting. If rape, murder and depravity are on the agenda for any member of my family I’d be most happy to arrange the meeting between said bad guys and Jesus. And my daughter knows that She’s healthy, happy, and in one price Because That’s my job
God gave people over to His chosen people ALLLLL throughout the bible....God protected His people....Just seems backwards...I see your perspective, but IDK, I guess I would prefer to have a husband that says he would do whatever it takes to protect my children and I, rather than "Probably" because that is a "passive" answer. I see what you are saying but I'm still conflicted. My husband thinks the way you do about guns. I in the other hand would like the protectiom, and all of our ushers carry guns.
John Piper makes at least five errors: 1. He doesn't understand God's sovereignty in salvation. (Thinks the criminal would come before the judgment throne, and God would say, "Oh, I intended that you would be with Me forever, but that guy shot you. Oh well, off to the lake of fire with you!") 2. He doesn't understand that "militia" means every able-bodied man. NOT the military or National Guard; that's just dumb on many levels. 3. He doesn't know the Bill of Rights. The SECOND Amendment protects the First. 4. He doesn't understand self-defense. Shooting the criminal who threatens your family in the leg probably won't stop him. And it might very well kill him in a few minutes anyway by hitting the femoral artery. 5. He can't differentiate Jim Elliot's self-sacrifice from Stephen Williford's defending God's flock. I remember when Piper was a humble man of God who spoke only what God's Word speaks. 😢
Well God isn’t surprised when someone gets saved, right? He knows all of those who say “yes” to Jesus and is working out their salvation, as this is what it means to be predestined. So if someone is armed in your house trespassing, and you kill them, this is a person who never would have chosen Christ anyways. You don’t need to do God’s work for Him! He is working out their salvation and the Good Shepherd loses none of His sheep. I remember plenty of times before I was born again that God steered me away from certain doom, because He had a plan long before I responded to the gospel.
So wait…he thinks if I own a gun I will die from being killed with a gun. It’s actually comical. No one should have ever bought a single book or listened to a single sermon from this man. He just simply has no wisdom.
The TRUE CHRISTIAN, (not by Birth or Name only) practicing Christianity as a Civilian and not as a Law Enforcer or a Soldier (job/duty)... their only chosen WEAPONS must be their Steadfast FAITH and PRAYERS only... and not FIREARMS... (Matt. 10:28/paraphrased)... "Do not fear Man who can only kill the Body, but fear God who can kill both Body and Soul."... Amen (Matt 26:52/paraphrased)... "Those who DRAW/USE/LIVE BY/RELY ON/TAKE the SWORD (Literal Weapon), will Perish/Destroy/Die by the SWORD (Literal Weapon)."... Amen.
There is a BIG difference between living by the sword, and owning and carrying and being proficient with the sword. That is wisdom:)
Wow amen! 🙏🏼
@@mdyzward8553 Thank you very much!
Try bringing a sword to a gun fight 🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂
The King James Bible says that all that TAKE the sword shall perish with the sword. Also, if Jesus really wanted his 12 apostles to defend themselves with the sword and to kill the enemy then history would have shown us that the 12 apostles led guilds of hitmen in order to kill the persecutors of the Christians. But the bible never shows that Christians killed their persecutors. Instead the bible only has record of the apostles defending themselves with words alone and they would accept their fate as martyrs if escape was no longer an option. Their is no story of an apostle killing someone.
@@Brandon_O.What about Luke 22:36?
Men who are opposed to violence are protected by those who aren't.
Well put.
I can rap my head around the missionary portion of his answer.
However the rest was actually quite incoherent or perhaps ignorant.
Not him as a person, but his knowledge of the subject. I have heard him preach fiercely that a man has a God given soul to protect his wife.
However he seems to contradict that here,
Not protecting very well I’m afraid.
@@justintrammell7839 the thing about the missionary is that it isn’t from the Bible. That was a choice that they made. I am not required to do whatever some missionary tells me. Idk who this pastor in the video is but I’m immediately skeptical of any preacher who adds requirements to the Bible and holds his congregation to that arbitrary standard. Why would we put ourselves back in chains when Christ has given us freedom?
My uncle was murdered by a gun. He had never so much as fired one. Piper is wrong about living by the gun will die by the gun. If my uncle had a gun and knew how to use it he probably would’ve lived.
False.
Men who call on Jesus are saved.
Men who rely on their guns are unbelievers.
One thing I noticed is that Dr. Piper has a legitimate concern about taking the life of someone who is more than likely not ready to meet Christ and be judged. I admire his sentiment. However, I don't see how he can say that and be consistent in saying that he believes that there should be a military to protect our nation and policemen who, "should take out guys who are killing people." Well those, "guys who are killing people," are also more than likely not ready to meet God either. So why is it OK to think that a police officer or a soldier should kill those bad guys but not himself? It seems like it is an arbitrary line, as if God isn't in control of when each person dies and when they live. To me it sounds like he doesn't apply principles of primary and secondary causes to this particular subject matter when he would apply that principle to other things that have to do with God's sovereignty in this world. I still love Dr. Piper, I just wanted to point out a disagreement with this great man of God.
Brilliantly put. Like yourself, I greatly admire Dr John Piper, and see his point. The intention is pure, showing mercy and concern for those lost souls, but... like you pointed out, there is a logical dilemma there.
Not sure I’d call it inconsistent unless these policemen start to randomly shoot people, but... wait, they’re already doing it! A small minority, admittedly, but a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
John Piper believes, based on biblical evidence, that what a nation’s government or military force is authorized to do is not the same as what the Christian in his or her own individual life is allowed to do.
He is not contracdicting himself. His is saying his gun position and desire not to kill unbelievers is a sentiment but that we are still justified in doing so if the situation calls for it. Its basicly I dont want to kill, and dont want to put myself in a situation were it becomes a likely outcome, but I do believe it to be jusfied in this situation.
@@Risk1995 you believe it to be justified in that situation, fine, but the question is how did you come to believe that? Bc you are scared decided that yourself? Or is it bc you really trusted Him with this situation and God gave you a clear mandate to kill that person.. hm. Do you think Paul and other Christians who were being hunted down and crucified weren't afraid for their lives or their families? Let that sink in. Paul witnessed the risen Christ and of course writes in the New Testimate itself. Just bc you are scared in a situation or "Fearing for your life" isn't a great excuse for us. Pacifism is agreeing with anything, and doing anything the person/ppl in control want you to. The early Christians did not quit worshipping Christ and proclaiming what they had witnessed when their own state threatened to execute them for such things, which they obviously did. Those were some hard MF's (excuse my language but it's true.) They were tougher SPIRITUALLY than what I see around me today and inside myself. I have many firearms. But in every situation I can think of, I would have two choices assuming I am armed. I would either kill the person, or die proclaiming Christ to him. Does that sound dumb? Before you answer, remember. That's what the disciples did. That's what Christ taught by setting the example Himself. I'm not saying I'm spiritually strong enough to live up to that. But we have GOT to recognize that it isn't stupidity that would drive someone to do that. It would be the Holy Spirit. Love you all, be safe.
@@jamespitts10 Scripture. They are times when we are called to make the decision you describe but that dosent mean taking a life in a self defence situation is sinful. The bible never speaks againts self defence, and that are some verses that demonstrate that its justifiable. No to mention the clear doctrine that gouverment are justerfied using force for the right reasons. Honesly s convo over video chat would go better cause this is a complex topic but yes to believe who heartly in what I wrote previously
Let me ask you this question. Years not to long ago a man walked into a texas church and started killing people clearly in a mission for the devil. A man with a gun killed that guy if the guy didnt have a gun didnt shoot the bad guy with a gun he would have killed everyone in that church on the fact he wasnt going to heaven. What if the people the bad guy was killing was not yet saved but was there to do so lost their life and couldnt give their life to christ because that pastor said no you cant have a gun to protect the flock of the church?
Perfectly said.
The second amendment wasnt written to increase violence. It was written to decrease violence. This man needs to reevaluate his perspective.
This might be the most incoherent take on this subject I have ever heard.
Living by the sword (gun) being compared to people having guns at home to protect their family is the most profound misinterpretation of that verse. The one living by the sword is he who invades the home with one and not the one who protects his family with one
Us firearm owners do so to protect our family and the innocent. There may be a theif willing to kill someone in your home who isn't ready to go to heaven yet either.
Sure. I'm not against guns either per se but ask yourself this: did Jesus, the apostles or Paul have any firearms and if not the ask yourself why? I agree that one should be able to protect one's family but what is happening on the political scale right now has absolutely nothing to do with Christ. Rely on God for protection and revenge instead of relying on your self.
@@pyramusk3264 the Apostles had swords so yes
@@JayReacio No, one of them had a sword at least at one occasion. And it was pointed out by Jesus that he shouldn't use it unless he was willing to die by it too. That said. Weapons, police, soldiers etc. is not condemned by God. But the Bible isn't choosing a political side on that matter either. Our kingdom is not of this world.
@@pyramusk3264 Jesus also told his disciples if they did not have a sword they should sell their cloaks to buy one, I don’t suppose you believe he said that believing they would be using the sword for cutting up steaks or fillet mignon? This isn’t political, it’s merely about affirming what the Bible says implicitly in many places, that one has the right to defend oneself. Paul even tells husbands that if they fail to provide for their families they are worse than unbelievers, part of that provision as the stronger sex includes protection, and the most viable option for our times is a firearm. Furthermore, if you affirm that we have the right to defend yourself and others (love your neighbors as yourself) then you should also ask yourself if you believe that this right extends to defending yourself against governments devoid of God’s righteous laws. If let’s say you were in a country where they were killing millions of Jews, or millions of babies, or enslaving a certain people, would not love for your neighbor compel you to defend the widows and orphans? If so, then you should will to have the same weaponry that the government has. I don’t feel all warm and fuzzy at the thought of a godless pagan state being the only ones with weaponry, but more regenerate believers in Jesus who have good moral consciences carrying instruments of justice that does ease my mind.
@@pyramusk3264 ask myself why Jesus and the apostles didn't have guns?? They weren't invented till 1,000 years later... Come on, you have to know that. Exodus also talks about killing a man that breaks into your house at night. But also, in the country I use firearms to protect my chickens and goats from predators and love joining with friends and shooting. Turn the other cheek is about insults. Also, Jesus told Peter not to use the sword because Jesus HAD to be crucified so his attempts at defending him had no place in that situation. Live by the sword die by the sword means those who are violent. This is about self defense.
I recently read his 12 page article summarizing his conversations with Jerry Falwell Jr. As much as I admire John Piper and his Biblical acumen, he is confusing victimhood with martyrdom. The mistake he makes is assuming that any and all assaults will end in death to the victim. Would he think an assault is so wonderful if his wife and daughters, instead of being killed and going to be with Jesus, were raped, sodomized and left alive to live with the aftermath? We know that all things worked together for good for those who are the called, but would he really allow something so horrible to happen without any resistance? If not, then to what level of resistance would he go? We are called to subdue evil in this world, not succumb to senseless violence and assault. And a side note, I would like to know if he and/or his family has ever been the victim of a senseless assault, to know if he has put his theory to practice. And yes, we must be respectful and loving in our replies. One last thing; he mentions about the perpetrator going to hell, what about the person or persons who do not know Christ, that would be his victim(s)? Do they not deserve to be protected to live another day for the opportunity to be eventually be converted? I am surprised at how poorly he extrapolated the possible outcomes. Also, it's ok for an officer to put his life on the line to protect his family, possibly lose his life so that his family is preserved and the officer's family is destroyed, if he could get there in time to protect his family. Again, so poorly thought out. I hope he comes to his senses and a Biblical understanding of his responsibility to protect his family. Nothing admirable about being a victim... martyr yes, victim no. Ecclesiastes 3:1, 3; To everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven... A time to kill... we MUST take the whole counsel of the Word, and shape our views, not shape the Bible to our views.
My feelings exactly
What business an intruder has or hasn’t done with Christ before threatening me or my family is not under my control. Missionaries, are a different context that’s unrelated to home invasion...Jesus doesn’t want his kingdom advanced at the point of the sword, or the barrel of a gun, but we are called to protect life and the Bible leaves the means we use to do so with ambiguous.
I agree…
He juxtaposed the two.
"those who live by the sword will die by the sword" ..... why would you apply that to the person merely having the tool available to defend themselves if necessary, and not to the violent attacker attempting to rape and murder his victim? Also, the context of Jesus' statement suggests strongly that it was a point about the police state of Rome, and the guards committing an injustice against Christ and the disciples. Jesus comforted Peter with those words, essentially saying, don't worry, the tyrants will get their due....
Those without a sword die first... on there knees
Anything wrong with that?
It's not necessary. In the UK we do not have guns and things are much safer that way
@@little1intheuk y’all are getting knifed up bad over there
@@little1intheuk In the UK you don’t have....ok let’s just leave it at that:)
"I'm not a pacifist but I'm not going to kill anybody even if that means my daughter gets raped and killed, and I also approve military and policemen killing people who kills people". Okay, it sounds a bit of contradictory your answer.
That's an interesting take on the subject that I have never heard before, and I was almost convinced until I thought it through and weighed it against scripture. Nowhere, do I find that we as Christians make the determination of whether someone goes to Heaven or Hell, other than to go into all the world and preach the gospel, and to love others as we love ourselves. That determination is made between every individual and God, alone. God himself established the consequences of sin, and if someone is engaging in criminal behavior, and on the verge of murder, I can scarcely conceive that any responsibility for that person's fate lies with the defender.
You are absolutely right. Salvation is a personal choice to trust in Christ as your Savior. It is the christian's responsibility to share the Gospel and the work of the Holy Spirit to bring people to understand and trust in that truth of the Gospel.
Yup. I agree here. Of course if you can avoid killing the person you should but that's not always possible. Plus, there are plenty of other things besides just straight up killing someone that a criminal could do. Maybe your daughter is saved so if she were killed she'd be in a good place but what if the criminal were not there to steal your possessions but capture her for child slavery. You're ok with this happening so you don't have to use lethal force?
AMEN!
Always love John but if I hear this “shoot him in the leg idea” one more I’m going to scream. If you go to a range and shoot a handgun, get a body size target and show me,oh show me, if you can ever hit him in the leg.
That’s with a still target.
Now picture the real human being moving, and tunnel vision ensues, and the heart rate goes sky high, while accuracy drops thru the floor.
Then tell me you hit his leg. Ain’t going to happen.
Too much TV my friends.
"if I hear this “shoot him in the leg idea” one more I’m going to scream"
Thank Roy Rogers. Hollywood has really, _really_ screwed up the average person's comprehension of what guns are and how to properly use them.
If you are good enough to hit someone in the leg reliably, then you are smart enough to know they will bleed out in seconds from disruption of the femoral artery. If they are armed with a firearm, they can still murder those around them during those remaining seconds.
@@nevisstkitts8264 I agree my friend. ….love St. Kitts by the way.
First time I have EVER disagreed with Dr. Piper! But I am moved by his "not ready to see Jesus" position. I'm just not that guy. The ONLY thing that stops an evil man with a gun, is a righteous man with a gun.
Maybe not the ONLY thing, but it is a point well taken! Right On!
I admire John Piper, but I do not agree with the recent article that he wrote. As a gun owner, if someone we're to attack me or my family, I would not hesitate to shoot them.
As soon as he leaves off simply preaching the gospel and delighting in God nothing but a mess is the result.
Yes, I agree. Just the fact that he thinks he would hesitate to protect his daughter/family in that situation is ridiculous. If someone tries to break into my house or hurt my loved ones, you better believe I'll shoot them. They're a scumbag anyway.
Guy Fawkes-Day ... Didn’t he say something about selling their cloak to buy a sword before they go out into the world?
I dont like the way the article is written but cnt fault it him for what he says in the video. I wosent under the impression he would hesitate to protect his family, he just has no desire to kill and isent fond of putting yourself in and position were that becomes much easier to do. I dont share his sentiment but I most defenly understand it and appreciate that in this video he is making clear that this is a personnel convinction and not a biblical donctrine.
@@michaeldukes4108 Luke 22:36
Do you carry auto insurance? Are you a bad driver? Firearms are tools that can be used for good or evil. Look up Exodus 22:2, Nehemiah 4:13-14. There are other scriptures that address the right to self defense. Jesus teaching on "turning the other cheek" in the Sermon on the Mount is about insults, not defending oneself. The concept is absolutely biblical.
Slap on the cheek is a physical attack bro. Jesus said to not resist an evil person. When someone slaps u on the cheek Jesus is not concerned about your tingling slap or ding in your pridefulness, Jesus trips about one’s humility and love for your neighbor and to love your enemies and to pray for them
Luke 22:36 KJV
“Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it , and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
Jesus Christ: 1
John Piper: 0
That verse is prophecy fulfillment, not about self defense. Jesus did not have 2 of the 11 disciples get swords to defend Jesus, when Jesus clearly is making the prophecy happen. Jesus was making Himself look like a criminal to be arrested (which obviously happened) and therefore put on trail to be sentenced to the cross.
That verse is used too often in the wrong sense.
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Matthew 26:52 KJV
You'll definantly call the gun toting sinners to protect your daughter though...are they ready to go to hell? Someone's gotta do it. It's your duty to protect your daughter no different than the duty of a police officer.
No different? Really? Are you authorized to investigate suspicious actions? Do you have the color of law when you commit an action? Are you exempt from review and judgment?
@@StephenMatlock So can I ask, if Christians should not defend themselves, why there are bible verses in the bible such as Exodus 22:2, Luke 22:36 that talks abouy self defense. If your not gonna answer it, you are definitely a LIAR
Don't forget Isaiah 1:17 and Psalms 82. As one who is fatherless with fatherless siblings and a widowed mother, I promise to go full friggin Doomguy mode on anyone who would harm my family. As God has a zero tolerance policy for those who prey on the fatherless, widowed and all other innocents.
@@StephenMatlock Well, yes.... I am.
@@StephenMatlock are you denying that a father has a responsibility to protect his family?
I’m sorry - I cannot see anything “righteous” in allowing yourself to be killed if your family or property - and yes, yourself - are under assault by criminals with murderous intent. Taking a life in self defense is completely different than taking the life of someone who’s home you’ve invaded or taking a life in a planned out, premeditated murder.
You must take a life to protect property? So stuff you own is more important than the person who bears the Imago Dei.
Interesting set of values.
@@StephenMatlock that is an individual choice. But the right to use violence to protect property is essential because otherwise there would be no ownership of anything. Anyone could take anything from anyone. That would be condoning theft and that would be wrong.
ok, so the average citizen shouldnt...but youre ok with law enforcement shooting a thief who will PROBABLY go to hell. You REALLY made a mess with this answer.
A cop can send a thief to hell...but you think anyone else possibly doing so in self defense makes them likely to also "die by the gun"
Listen to your answer..its very confused, sir!
also, the second amendment and our right to bear arms and resist tyranny has existed WAY longer than "recently" and that includes folks being able to have them privately. hundreds of years ago...this was legal. Never changed.
You say with one breath youre not a pascifist, and with the next you are promoting police shooting the same man you wont? God said something very different on this subject. An intruder, in the night...hus blood is on his OWN hands. period!
But many intruders with guns have entered into dwellings, shot and killed individuals and family members who were also not ready for heaven. I can understand if you as a Christian want to lay down your life for a sinful intruder. And there is the question of a man who has the responsibility of raising a family. His first job is to be there and raise his kids up in the lord. If he wanted to be a martyr he should have stayed single. Its a tough call. I had a gun for awhile and thought this through myself. Though, I'm single and can afford to die. A family man not so much. A gun can be a great way or the only way to defuse a situation. After, the crimmal is stopped, and frequently not through death, you can always go down to the jail and share the gospel with them. Get them on your prayer list.
I’m not agonizing over this. If I or my family is attacked, someone is getting shot. If that person is me then so be it. The intention is to neutralize the threat. If they choose to die, then so be it. I’d prefer non-violence but, if I am faced with violence then at 5’5” 180lbs, I’m bringing greater violence. I’m not walking around looking for a fight worse a “fair” fight. Why is this even a debate?
Exactly, it all about stopping the evil in its tracks. Not really about killing an intruder. No one needs to rob or steal to begin with. Totally unnecessary.
I love you John Piper but I disagree with you. I carry daily and I will protect you don’t worry. 😉
I would like to submit a thought here. Recently I heard the Holy Spirit say to me "My people are still choosing Barabaas'. I had to do some research but this is what I found out. Barabaas' name means son of the Father. Many secular historians have him listed as "Yeshua Barabaas". It is highly likely, by my findings, that there was 2 men standing with the exact same name!!!! What what they choosing when they chose Barabaas. A Zealot and revolutionary who was fighting Rome intrusion into Jerusalem with swords and violence. He was a political activist, a revolutionary. All the while Yeshua was teaching Sermon on the Mount. Why did the nation miss there time of visitation? Several reasons but one of them is they were looking for a conquering King. For me and my house I choose Yeshua, not barabaas. And yes, I am supportive of the 2nd amendment. Blessings
When asked if he would protect his daughter he answered, “Probably.” Wow! I know he is a brother in Christ and loves the Lord, but that is a shameful response to that question as a father. He has given very wise biblical answers to so many questions and topics over the years, but he is way off in liberal left field and out of bounds Scripturally on this one.
rjm7630 he definitely does not have a warriors heart. There are many people that would gladly rape and murder his daughter in front of him and he can somehow sleep on that fact without the slightest provocation to purchase a weapon for the defense of the innocent.
@@BereanBeliever86
This man and myriads of millions of others, overlook the promise of Almighty God, that He will never allow us to be tempted above what we are able to endure.
"God, who faithfully keeps his promises, will not allow you to be tempted beyond your power to resist. But when you are tempted, he will also give you the ability to endure the temptation as your way of escape. "
1 Corinthians 10:13 (GW)
“How much do you love me dad?” “Uhh…Probably!”
John Piper seems to be a genuinely caring individual. (most people on the gun control side of the gun debate are)
He also seems to be suffering from one important shortcoming that most people on the gun control side of the debate also suffer from - ignorance on the subject.
Guns are used about 40,000 times per year to end a life in the United States. About 2/3 of those are suicides, and the bulk of the rest are murders. Very few of those deaths - are the result of a gun being used in self defense.
This is not to say that guns are seldom used successfully in self defense or to prevent crimes. The CDC (a decidedly anti-2A organization) studied this and concluded that guns are used in self defense or to stop crimes between 500,000 and 2.5 million times per year. The vast majority of these cases are done without firing a shot, and with NOBODY getting injured.
If you want to avoid violence - have a gun. Every household should own at least one AR-15 type of weapon to prevent crime, and to save lives of those in the home as well as any intruders.
If my wife and I are walking - and two men try to rob us - if I am unarmed, some (or all) of us are going to the hospital. If I am armed though, probably NONE of us will get a scratch. THE Christian thing to do to be a peacemaker, is to own and carry firearms.
I have always believed in strict gun control. Hit what you are aiming at.
If God had meant for man to have guns, He would have given him trigger fingers.
@@nevisstkitts8264 Well... I guess He did...I have one right between my thumb and middle finger:)
I think the verse that talks about those who live by the sword shall die by the sword refers to murderers if you ask me.. Plenty of cops and military veterans have came out alive and died of heart attacks and other reasons. So that's pretty obvious it doesn't pertain to people who are using them for the right reasons.
There's a difference between killing and murder. People kill during war, and people kill defending their family, property and themselves. I'm a gun owner and I pray that it never comes to having to use deadly force. Murder is the taking of one's life, just to take it. I truly believe I have a God given right to defend myself and my loved ones if necessary. As a Marine Corps veteran, I swore an oath before God to serve, to protect and to defend the constitution of the United States of America against enemies foreign and domestic...and that oath has no expiration date.
I thought Piper was reformed, i.e., believes in the doctrines of grace?
The world is not full of evil people but people who see evil and do nothing
Jim Elliott, Nate Saint, etc. were amazing heroes of the faith. However, they would have been absolutely justified in shooting every single one of natives that attacked them.
John Piper is confusing martyrdom with self-defense. His long answer was contradictory and confusing. It’s terrible he never used scripture. The Bible makes killing in self-defense, particularly when at home at night, very clear: “If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.” Exodus 22:2
"Are you opposed to people owning guns?"
JP: "Yes, because missionaries!"
That's and excellent passage to shed light on this argument. Exodus22:2
Another thing, Peter had been carrying a sword probably way before the time that he drew it. And he had been following Jesus for a while. So it only stands to reason that if Jesus didn’t want him to carry it, he would have told Peter to take it off much earlier. He just didn’t want Peter to live by it.
And in the Garden, Jesus was just telling him - "Now is not the time to use your sword."
I don't 'live' by the 'gun', But Jesus recommended his disciples have at least two swords as He was sending them out as lambs among wolves.
Well, that is odd coming from Calvinist John Piper that says he believes in predestination. If a man breaks into your home to harm you, or your family, and you defend yourself, and your family, with a gun and the man dies and goes to hell then guess what? The man was not predestined to go to heaven. Why is it that Piper's theology does not work in real life on this issue?
And if you don't kill that guy and he kills you, guess what: that was predestined by God too. What reasoning is that? So because God sends a robber to your house that means he wants you to kill him?
The point Piper was making is that if you are a Christian, it is not bad for you to die. Remember the apostle Paul? He said for me to live is Christ and to die is gain.
But if the robber dies he's going straight to hell. Of course it would be predetermined by God if that were the case, but the blood would be on your hands.
I would much rather die and go to heaven than to live and send a person who doesn't know Christ to hell.
Who knows? Maybe after your death the robber or whoever wanted to harm you will get converted. And what a win that will be for the kingdom of Christ! Such a small price to pay for a soul's salvation.
When Jesus said Those who live by the sword will die by the sword, he was talking about violence. He was saying, those who live by violence will die by violence. Jesus never said you could not carry a sword either. There are many people who carry the gun but don't live by it. Just my two cents. 🤷. I do still love Dr. Piper though. Good man, with a good heart
Jesus also told his disciples to sell their cloaks to buy a sword. For looks? Intimidation? To run after animals to kill them for food? No. Jesus knew they might be physically threatened. Self defense has always been permitted. You should always try to give that threat a chance to run away, or talk to them (if possible), but not standing up to evil isn’t right either.
I have no problem with people owning guns. I do have a problem with people trying to kill me with guns. Or knives or spears or anything else. People have tried to kill me with guns. I was armed and faster. Long time ago and far, far away.
Oh look, it's woke John Piper. He immediately gives an example different from the question asked. I wonder how his wife and daughter feel knowing his answers
He is a deadbeat dad.
This man and myriads of millions of others, overlook the promise of Almighty God, that He will never allow us to be tempted above what we are able to endure.
"God, who faithfully keeps his promises, will not allow you to be tempted beyond your power to resist. But when you are tempted, he will also give you the ability to endure the temptation as your way of escape. "
1 Corinthians 10:13 (GW)
Wow, that's a lot of hate here in the comments. So many obviously didn't even listen to the video. Those of you who claim to be Christian, please behave like one, even if you disagree. "speak the truth in love"
How does a "christian" behave? Please tell us.
Dale Dunn I agree, So many times I see brother's an sister's disagree on whatever the topic may be. An to many times its hateful an insulting. We are family I know We won't always agree with each other but no topic despite how deep or ridiculous it may Be should ever make us forget that an drive a wedge between us an Make us talk to one another harshly an without Love. I don't necessarily Agree with Brother piper on this or alot of other brother's an sister's but I Love him an them an can see where they're coming from as well, thxs for Commenting brother I Love You all G-d bless 👍.
Right on cue here's the virtue signalling Christian, "Whats with all the hateful comments?" comment. Just because you take a dump on people in Christianese doesn't mean you aren't doing the same thing as the people whose Christianity you question.
If you’re a Christian, you shouldn’t have to intentionally “behave” like one. That’s what we call religion and legalism. When we know Jesus, He changes us on the inside, and consequently, the “behavior” happens naturally as a result. Anyways, food for thought. Cheers!
ok then don't protect your family dumbass. THAT'S not Christian.
Not one scriptural reference in support of his position except at the very end where he misapplies Matt 26:52. Using Pipers argument, the children of Israel should have not killed the Pagans of the nations occupying the promised land. Using Pipers argument, Jesus was wrong when he told the disciples to sell their cloak to buy a sword… Sadly, when he tries to say owning a gun is akin to living by the sword is the same as the Devil twisting scripture when temping Jesus.
I thought owning, carrying, and protecting yourself or others with a sword was NOT living by it. The sword lives by you and your ability to wield it wisely, swiftly, and effectively. On that same note, I live by the sword of the Spirit Hebrews 4:12. Either of these swords can be used inappropriately. I have thought and stated on many occasions, that in a conflict, I would be willing to die, if it meant that my aggressor was able to come to the truth. However, I can't say that I know what is right, but as a gun owner, avid hunter, and recreational shooter, I can't wait to beat my guns into plowshares. I came hear because I feel God is calling me to sell my guns, though I need to continue in prayer to be clear what is being asked. My heart is very heavy to clear my life of all of my belongings and prepare for a new thing. I would encourage you all to follow Proverbs 3.
I own and in fact I carry everyday and everywhere to church the store etc
Jesus told his disciples if they did not have a sword, to go sell their cloak and buy one. Self defense is a God given right! It is right and good, even your enemy has the same right to self defense. A gun is an equalizer of force, it allows an old man and young woman to be able to defend themselves against a peak conditioned thug! Everyone able to defend themselves equally, allows for civilization to flourish! It's beautiful, all people restraining their impulses and not attacking anyone, because they know it won't be successful....
But than the master also said in Matthew 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Ihavetubes, this was because jesus ultimately had to die on the cross. That was his purpose
while true, as God commanded Israel in the old testament, they were brutal to their enemies, killing thousands to millions of people. God said their sins where more atrocious then the Israelite. I don't think its our place to be the judge, but i will stop someone if they were going steal etc. i would attempt to not kill, but injure. Although that sounds iffy ill just have to ask God if or when it happens to me.
Falcon yep i 100% agree with you. I mean in another verse it does say to sell your cloak to equip yourself with a sword, but that obviously doesn't mean attacking or instigating harm on others, more than defense of yourself and others.
...And how many more souls were lost because these missionaries didn't defend themselves, when they could have, and continue the work that God called them too?
That question is not even worth asking. Their efforts at sharing the gospel do not save anyone. That is the work of God, of whom they were servants. Would you ask about Jesus willingness to open not his mouth or defend himself in his trial and crucifixion, “how many more souls were lost because he didn’t defend himself, when he could have worked and taught the people further?” Those men chose to have faith in both the vengeance and mercy of God, believing he was capable of using their deaths to bring glory to himself, even saving their killers if he desired. They trusted him to make right the wrong, they did not take it into their own hands. And they should be commended for it. Had they chosen to defend themselves, that isn’t necessarily sinful. Whatever is not from faith is sin. For it is impossible to please God without faith. These men chose to act in faith. Praise God.
I am a Bible believing Christian. I am also a prior service marine and a law enforcement officer. This is something that I had to make peace with a long time ago. The Bible says many things in this regard. The most important thing I have taken from it is we are all called for many things and different things. You may be called to be a martyr for Christ and if that is the case you should be honored. You may be called to be a protector and take life in that calling. You should be honored for that too. It is not for me or anyone else to tell you what your calling is and what you are called to do. Nor is it for you to tell me mine. If you don't like what one or the other is called to then that is on you not on them not on God. If what your being called for is against the Bible then that's not a calling it's your own pride and your own agenda. The Bible calls for both protectors, military, in the service of justice, even to fight tyranny, and those that are called to pacifism, martyrdom, and to suffer greatly for Christ. All of these are important. I believe that I was called to the sword/ firearm for Christ and if that means I am to die by the sword/ firearm for Christ then so be it. I'm ok with that. May God bless and be with you all.
"Those who live by the gun will die by the gun" . This is the most stupid conclusion that I ever heard from Piper. If we take that at face value then that means we should ban cops and all law enforcement personnel. I'm sure he doesn't believe that, but his last sentence was simply ridiculous. Over the years, I have noticed he has slowly become more soft and social justice friendly. Just listen to his wordy and flawed talks on "critical race theory"
And if this stance were true then that would mean all of our military should lay down their guns... and our police officers... idk. Tough subject.
We might not need the police that we have. We just accept it because it was here when we arrived, so to speak.
Some countries do not have police armed with lethal weapons. Some countries do not have such violent police officers.
Just because we live with this policing doesn't mean it's right and good. It might be a very wicked implementation of the desire for accountability.
Stephen Matlock I believe you should think that out a little more.
Which is why no authentic true brother of Christ "worth their salt" can be in the police or military.
@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332Then please do not call us ever.
Maybe if you Calvinist would just read the bible instead of the wisdom of man you could see what God said about having a weapon and self defense
Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
Exodus 22 2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
Deuteronomy 23:13And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:
And many more
Maybe if you would exercise basic hermaneutics and exegetical study you would know that Luke 22:36 was a foreshadowing of the disciples' persecution and tribulation which was to come not an excuse to become trigger-happy, conflict-searching Christians. My suggestion for you would also to be careful of judging people because of their soteriological standpoint rather than their character, and from what I saw from this video...I only saw a man exercising love and compassion. Blessings to you brother in Christ!
James Smetanin owned
I am a staunch Calvinist, and be believe we are responsible for the choices we make in this life. If we chose to commit evil upon other people, the consequences may be that we are shot and killed. God's sovereignty walks hand in hand with man's responsibility.
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Matthew 26:52 KJV
guide us in the right direction Lord let us do your will
Not wanting to kill an assailant who is likely not ready to meet Jesus is the very reason we train to "shoot to stop the threat" rather than "shoot to kill."
First off I carry most everywhere I go.
I pray I never have to shoot someone or kill someone.
But I see no Biblical problem with defending oneself or one’s family or any innocent person.
You also used a verse at the end speaking of anyone who lives by the sword will die by the sword. Jesus stated that when Peter was trying to defend Him even though Peter had been told that Jesus would be killed. Jesus had to go to the cross and Peter was trying to stand in the way of that.
Jesus was stating that those who go around using a sword at will will die by a sword. He wasn’t stating that a person could never defend themselves.
In Luke 22 Jesus tells his disciples who do not have a sword to get one.
I have yet to have someone tell me why Jesus told his disciples to get swords.
I think I may disagree with John Piper.
Anyone who lives by sword shall perish by sword has nothing to do with self defence.
What is it about?
Luke 22:36?
Sin in the world makes many issues like this a "damned if you do /damned if you dont" dilemma. I dont think there is 1 right answer. Like Rahab, we make our best choice in good faith and rely on Gods mercy.
I clearly don’t understand the reasoning with his logic. I really respect John Piper on everything but self preservation. He literally said we have the police and the military to take bad guys out....these people are you and me. They aren’t everywhere all the time...self preservation isn’t murder. It’s stopping the threat and protecting our family and ourselves from people with bad intentions. I understand “live by the sword, and die by the sword” I understand “Thou shall not murder....”...I don’t understand...thou shall be a victim. I placed my hope and faith in Jesus Christ. I’m ready to die. I’m not scared of dying. I feel as a Christian I’m here to defend the Faith, Glorify God, and protect those that I love. Some Christians seem to seek suffering for their own insecurities it seems because Jesus told his disciples they will suffer in his name and some will be martyred. Well that is certainly true. It is also certainly true that without protecting our loved ones Because we misunderstand self protection is very failing at discernment and wisdom. Peter carried a sword...Jesus told his disciples to carry a sword because he wouldn’t be there to protect them any longer...protection and murder are two separate intentions and motivations. People that are anti-gun will use this for their benefit and people that are pro-gun will disagree. But this seems to be a personal choice...but people are influenced by John Piper’s personal choices...there’s more to be discussed on this....
I think you might misunderstand him from this video. One of the things I like about it is that is drawing a difference between his conviction and the law aspect of it. What he is saying in a nutshell his he stays away from gun because it makes alot easier to kill someone i that situation. He dosent say its wrong to kill to protect self or loved ones (says he is not a pacifist) just that he believes its un wise to have a fire arm because it makes too easy. I dont share his conviction but i dont see how you can make and honest argument againts gun right off him. He isent refencing should people have the right to defend themself with fire arms he is saying he believes its un wise to own one for that reason.
I do like the way that Piper seems to try to wrestle with this issue honestly.
This is not an easy topic. On the one hand, Jesus does say that those who take up the sword will die by the sword (Matt 26:52), and he tells us not to resist an evildoer (Matt 5:39). On the other hand, he tells his disciples to sell their robes and buy a sword if they don't have one (Luke 22:36).
I think there is nothing wrong in principle with having a gun for self-defense. But I also think that American gun laws should be significantly tightened, for the simple reason that the murder rate by guns and also the overall murder rate are so much higher in the US than in all other Western countries. And law enforcement officers are far more likely to die in the line of duty than in all other Western countries too.
If you make it easy to buy guns, then it is easy for criminals and psychopaths to get guns. And the danger from this far outweighs the benefit of the good guys having guns, unless you stay at home and almost never go out. I think banning handguns is probably a good goal to aim for. It may seem counter-intuitive, but I think this would actually make people much safer.
Maybe keep a shotgun at home for self-defense.
I I see your comment is over two years old. I would say this is a spiritual problem why are so many murdering each other. I believe with a ban violent crime would go up as it did over 30% in the uk with there gun laws tightening. We would follow there trend especially a much higher rate of home invasions, like they have. We have always had a higher rate of murder than most western countries from data going back up to two centuries. Even with several European countries having very loose gun control up until recently. As a side note there are several European countries loosening there gun laws Poland and Czech Republic come to mind.
In a gun ban in the us law abiding citizens who are not criminals would hand in there guns. The criminals would keep there’s. Then because of how many guns we have in this country there would be many very well armed criminals for decades And crime would go up. There would eventually after many decades of gun bans be less gun deaths. The violence would merely migrate to knife violence and screw driver violence. Just look at London’s high stabbing rate. And London’s murder rate is climbing so I don’t see a correlation between Less gun = less murder. Just means less murder with guns. More murder with other weapons. As a side note I would rather be shot than stabbed. Any older person or female would be more vulnerable to violence as they would they would have no recourse on ownership of a firearm to make up for there disparity of force in a violent altercation. I don’t believe our violent nation would change just because firearms disappeared from the hands of law abiding citizens. We need to turn to God not worry so much about an object.
I think there’s a difference between a person who is called by god for ministry in field is prepared in many cases to not carry guns at all depends on what there lead you do these are soldiers for god pastors and priests different than a citizen with family. God gave us common sense for a reason, scripture wise it’s touchy for sure both sides accounted for .
This makes no sense at all. In Piper's article, "should Christians be encouraged to arm themselves" he provides 10 points to prove they should not. However, much of his argument belies the content and reality of the OT. Secondly, his position is in conflict with his theology which teaches the elect of God will be saved. Therefore, if he shoots and kills his daughter's assailant, would God say, "Oh nuts, you ruined everything. I was going to save that man and now you've messed everything up." I don't think so.
Peter had a sword when he walked with Jesus which was pretty much the gun of the time
You are brilliant..... I have used that same example......for about 4 years..... I thought same thing and used the exact same example brother......
Peter bought a sword because Jesus told him to for prophecy fulfillment. Rememer when Peter cut a person's ear off and Jesus said "Enough of this?"
The only reason, like I have mentioned for the reason of having a swrod, was so Jesus can fulfill the prophecy of being put to death. Jesus made Himself look like a criminal to the Pharisees when 2 disciples carried sword. Jesus did not want to be defended. Why would the SON OF GOD need to be protected by mortal men?
Nick A. I carry a gun to defend my family more than myself. I believe it is wrong not to protect the innocent when you are capable. I don’t want to protect the violent predators as John seems to want to do, I want to protect the innocent. This world is an evil place and God has given us the means to protect ourselves and honestly the Bible makes no clear direction either way on this subject.
@@RexNicolaus you’re making an assumption without evidence. You’re welcome to abided by such a flimsy standard but don’t demand that others do so as well.
Love your enemies, forgive those who use and persecute you; the day of forgiveness is at hand.
Forgive them all!
All who take up the sword shall perish by the sword!
Don't let your zeal blind you to the truth!
Heaven will not be built by murder and uprisings!
The Love and Wisdom of God will fill the Earth as water fills the sea, the lion will lie down with the lamb, there will be no more killing or destroying; and the voice of weeping should be heard no more.
Jesus Christ is coming back soon! God bless y’all!
The Bible will keep you in endless theological circles about this and so many other topics. Sometimes it's easier to just step back and use common sense. I guess that's wrong though by Christian standards.
What missionaries choose to do in Ecuador can be appreciated, but does not dictate doctrinal truths for Christians. It's not the standard.
I'm a Catholic . The Catholic Bishop shot the death in his bed. That was a terrible thing that happened if I was on the jury I would not ask for the depth penalty Because it's a catholic We believe Showing mercy What I would vote for life and prison without the possibility of parole . And I'll take it a step further I would not confide that person .
Matthew 26:52 This verse is a condemnation of self-willed aggression. It has nothing to do with self-defense or the proper use of the criminal justice system. Peter was rebuked by the Lord because of violent aggression with a weapon. Someone useing a weapon to stop a criminal forcefully entering their home to harm them or their family is self-defense.
4:50 that's what Jesus said
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Matthew 26:52 KJV
Ya out of my cold dead hands....
@Mikael Yashuah Donoso having it doesnt have to be a sin, but the way you live with it. I live in the Netherlands so having a gun isn't common. So I don't have that much experience in having a gun to protect myself. But I just want trust God for my safety. And ofcourse I want to protect my family, I want to stand up if ai have to. But I don't want to live by the Sword, trust it more than God and I don't want to compensate evil with evil (1 Petrus 3:9 and Romans 12:17). If God says you are good with the way you live with it, I can't not be alright with that.
@Mikael Yashuah Donoso I understand what you are saying, but not every invader wants to kill. That may not always be the case, but in this life you can trust Jesus for having what you need. Jesus said: if someone steals your coat, give him your shoes. I just dont think it's necassary. Protecting yourself from harm is good, God is a righteous God. Killing a invader before he attacks, idk it depends on the situation, God is all knowing. Just dont over do it (the phenomon of having Guns).
@Mikael Yashuah Donoso Yes, God bless!
@Mikael Yashuah Donoso compared to America gun Violence almost isn't a problem. You're not allowed to have a gun, only when you get a license. It's very hard to get a gun. Sometimes there is a shooting from a psychopath, but very rarely. Besides that it's only in the Criminal circuit. I read an Article that in the Netherlands annualy, 3,3 people out of a million get shot. It's just not a big problem, if you dont live in the Criminal circuit you dont have to worry about anything.
Gun deaths and violence are highest in states with the strictest gun laws. Odd but true.
I don’t think a Christian movie is a good way to form self defense theology…….
we need guns...
The guns are here, the only question is who gets to keep them.
Hey John Piper, have you even thought the issue out? How about YOUR responsibility as a Christian to keep yourself alive, that you may live to convert thousands of others to the faith?? Same thing with those missionaries shooting into the air. They were so selfish that they treated themselves to a quick premature trip to Heaven, while denying their services to everyone they could have witnesses to had they lived. Amazing that you can't grasp that. Your lack of discernment on this issues forced me to reconsider everything that you have ever said.
With all due respect and with regard to your comment about "those missionaries", please take some time to read about their lives and how their deaths actually accomplished so much for the Kingdom of God that perhaps their lives may not have (but who knows, really). If you can find it, "The Savage, My Kinsman" tells the entire story and not just their deaths. Or you can google Jim Elliot or Elizabeth Elliot (his widow) on line and see the whole story. John Piper shared only that small piece of a much bigger story (I'm guessing) as an illustration for the point he was making about guns. I think their deaths are a perfect picture of what Jesus meant in John 12:24. I sincerely hope that learning about these amazing men, their courageous widows, and the resulting conversion of an entire people group will be a blessing to you as it has been to so many of us.
I just gained a lot of respect for Piper. I never knew he held these opinions.
God wants us to defend from evil. See David vs Goliath. David certainly wasn’t a warrior; moreover, he didn’t “live by the sword”. However, David did train to defend. Scripture tells us he defended his flock from bear and lion. David was also “armed” by his faith.
Psalm 118:6
The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?KJV
Psalm 118:6, and Psalm 23 for that matter, were possibly written by David, who was a man of war.
Yes, but the psalms were written by men of war who took many a life in defense of the Holy Land.
Yeah...but was the purpose of that violence to preserve the bloodline by which Christ would come?
Read an article moments ago so searched and came to this video for proof whether Piper is really against guns..
Love this guy, don't agree with him here. Glory to God.
The only thing I disagree with is that people should probably go out an buy a gun if they want to, but his reasoning on not killing is very biblical. We should never seek to kill even those who want us dead as individuals. Stopping them is one thing, but intentionally killing them is another. There are simply too many unknown variables to know whether or not you should kill the attacker that has come in your house.
Buying a gun, however, should not be done out of fear, as though you suspect someone will come into your home soon. I've never owned a gun, I live in the south, and crime has happened in my neighborhood. I like guns, but people are too gung-ho in in this country.
Vic Rockhill if someone is threatening my family I’ll kill them, simple as that.
ExhumedXxXx you and I are on the same page!!
I disagree strongly with Piper but I really do respect his opinion.
Probably - John Piper
Why does Christ Jesus use the word SWORD in Luke 22:36 as FIGURATIVELY and not a literal sword?... because St. Paul explained in his Epistle (Hebrews 4:12) that the "Word of God" is Powerful, Living and Active, sharper than any two (2) edged SWORD, that can cut/pierce (separate/divide) the Soul and the Spirit... (and so on)"... Praise be to God... Amen.
But they then showed Jesus that they already had two swords and he said it’s enough. Also why would he say to sell your coat to buy a sword if the sword is solely a reference to the word of God?
That would mean Jesus would have been saying, “Sell your coat to buy the Word” that seem illogical.
@@danielviets4427 Ask yourself a serious question... Why do we need to sell our CLOAK (coat, garment, robe, cloth, etc.) to buy a SWORD (singular), if we have money?... why only one Sword, and not as many swords we can buy from our money?... because the passage in Luke 22:36, "Sell your CLOAK (garment/cloth/robe, etc.) and BUY a SWORD" is not LITERAL PASSAGE in context and meaning...
Biblically speaking, Cloth, Cloak, Coat, Garments, and Robes most often symbolized STATURE and STATUS OF LIVING... analogy, for example... if you dress up properly, clean or your clothes are expensive you are WEALTHY, but if your clothes are worn out and dirty (sack clothe), most probably you are poor... Spiritually speaking, clothes, cloaks, garments, etc... needed to cover man's nakedness with either Righteousness of God or the Evilness of Satan... In the Book of Revelation, those who will be RAPTURED will be given a White GARMENTS/ROBES washed by the BLOOD of the LAMB (Christ Jesus)...
In conclusion, we need to SELL (give up) our CLOAK/COAT (Sinful Life Stature/Status in Society) to BUY (acquire the knowledge) a SWORD (Word of God)... Amen.
@@jvlp2046 you’re not making any sense. The word sword being singular doesn’t have to mean that the word sword must therefore be figurative. If the command was to each individual then the word being singular is appropriate. You’re also making an assumption that one individual owning multiple swords would be helping which isn’t necessarily true. To defend yourself one sword is sufficient. You don’t need several. I think you need to read more up on history my friend. This isn’t fantasy.
@@danielviets4427 Hebrews 4:12/paraphrased... narrates that the "WORD of God" is compared like a DOUBLE (2) Edged SWORD (singular)... "For the Word of God is LIVING and ACTIVE, SHARPER that any 2 Edged SWORD (singular) that can CUT/PIERCE (divide) the Soul and Spirit of man"... Christ Jesus is the "WORD of God" that was compared like a double edge SWORD... Facts and Truth, Biblically speaking... Amen.
@@danielviets4427 If you still can not understand and comprehend why the passage was not a literal CLOAK and SWORD but metaphorically (figuratively) even providing you with Biblical proofs (supporting verses)... perhaps because of DANIEL 12:10/paraphrased... "the WICKED shall never understand but only those who are WISE"... Amen.
I can agree but I don't want the government telling us we can't own them.
This video should have been titled "A Pacifist who identifies as a non-pacifist" James 1:8 (KJV) A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 4:17 (KJV) Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Exodus 22:2 (WEB) If the thief is found breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt of bloodshed for him.
The answer is yes. There should never be a probably when you are talking about protecting your children. God gave them to you to protect them.
Also, the 2nd amendment says the right of the people not the right of the militia. The Supreme Court got it right that it is our right to keep and bear arms.
Jesus said if you don't have a sword to sell your cloak and buy one. This was not a butter knife it was a defensive weapon and could be used as such.
If the government says that it's legal to kill somebody in self defense, than that's obeying the law. Piper, deep down inside, is a liberal orthodox. I always knew there was something about him that I didn't quite trust but couldn't put my finger on.
And living by the gun is euphemism for trusting the gun to be your savior... it would be like Someone telling Noah live by the hammer and nail die by the hammer and nail ....... Noah trusted god and used the hammer and nail to build the ark and prepare for the coming storm
While I’m at it
Anyone who has read the New Testament probably has noticed the respect and admiration Jesus expressed for certain Roman Centurions encountered during his ministry
And Jesus was a Jew and Rome had this really unpleasant thing going on at the time for Jews in general.
It also appears that the foundational books of the Old Testament make a strong distinction between killing and “murder”
I believe you will find that the original Hebrew text uses the work kill and not murder in the Ten Commandments
Katherine, my daughter and best friend of over 40 years now, to this day comes to me whenever trouble and hardship approach
She never has had to even give a second thought about seeking my advice and help. Nor have I ever had a doubt providing it
Judgement is indeed the Lords
Sometimes however the good Lord will use some of us , the lowly, uneducated unwashed masses, to arrange the meeting.
If rape, murder and depravity are on the agenda for any member of my family I’d be most happy to arrange the meeting between said bad guys and Jesus. And my daughter knows that
She’s healthy, happy, and in one price
Because
That’s my job
God gave people over to His chosen people ALLLLL throughout the bible....God protected His people....Just seems backwards...I see your perspective, but IDK, I guess I would prefer to have a husband that says he would do whatever it takes to protect my children and I, rather than "Probably" because that is a "passive" answer. I see what you are saying but I'm still conflicted. My husband thinks the way you do about guns. I in the other hand would like the protectiom, and all of our ushers carry guns.
"Which is it? The Second Amendment? One of the amendments."
🤦♂️
John Piper makes at least five errors:
1. He doesn't understand God's sovereignty in salvation. (Thinks the criminal would come before the judgment throne, and God would say, "Oh, I intended that you would be with Me forever, but that guy shot you. Oh well, off to the lake of fire with you!")
2. He doesn't understand that "militia" means every able-bodied man. NOT the military or National Guard; that's just dumb on many levels.
3. He doesn't know the Bill of Rights. The SECOND Amendment protects the First.
4. He doesn't understand self-defense. Shooting the criminal who threatens your family in the leg probably won't stop him. And it might very well kill him in a few minutes anyway by hitting the femoral artery.
5. He can't differentiate Jim Elliot's self-sacrifice from Stephen Williford's defending God's flock.
I remember when Piper was a humble man of God who spoke only what God's Word speaks. 😢
Well God isn’t surprised when someone gets saved, right? He knows all of those who say “yes” to Jesus and is working out their salvation, as this is what it means to be predestined. So if someone is armed in your house trespassing, and you kill them, this is a person who never would have chosen Christ anyways. You don’t need to do God’s work for Him! He is working out their salvation and the Good Shepherd loses none of His sheep. I remember plenty of times before I was born again that God steered me away from certain doom, because He had a plan long before I responded to the gospel.
This man is a coward and a terrible father and husband. Would not even protect his family. Gross.
So wait…he thinks if I own a gun I will die from being killed with a gun. It’s actually comical. No one should have ever bought a single book or listened to a single sermon from this man. He just simply has no wisdom.
Jesus said for us to love our enemies, but he did not say to let them rob, rape and murder us !
Amen my Friend!!!!
i know Christ Jesus.
i love you John Piper.
Did Jesus have a sword?
The TRUE CHRISTIAN, (not by Birth or Name only) practicing Christianity as a Civilian and not as a Law Enforcer or a Soldier (job/duty)... their only chosen WEAPONS must be their Steadfast FAITH and PRAYERS only... and not FIREARMS...
(Matt. 10:28/paraphrased)... "Do not fear Man who can only kill the Body, but fear God who can kill both Body and Soul."... Amen
(Matt 26:52/paraphrased)... "Those who DRAW/USE/LIVE BY/RELY ON/TAKE the SWORD (Literal Weapon), will Perish/Destroy/Die by the SWORD (Literal Weapon)."... Amen.