There are audiophiles who are very serious about their sound, have the money to invest in good - excellent quality equipment and have listened to multiple systems to be able to make comparisons and judgement. Then there are those “audiophiles” who are theoretical - they want great sound and have knowledge but little practical experience and exposure due to financial or other constraints. Then the third category are the people who don’t know or care about the difference between good and bad sound. This video, although very insightful and something I really enjoyed, doesn’t have any practical value for me at this point. But I have learned something and will remember this for the future. I belong to the second category by the way. I have a decent 5.1.2 Atmos system with small speakers and a good SVS sub. I know the folks in the video won’t be happy with my satellite speakers which by the way are not positioned optimally. But because I belong to the second category I did the best I could with my budget and space constraints (given my system is in my living room) and I am very happy with the sound. Just want to point out that folks that are happy with their sound are happy.
This says it all for me as well. Best part of my setup is one of the main takeaways from the video, getting the base layer right ie. the bass and front stage.
Damn - You guys are THE best. Such a great, balanced mix of informed, thoughtful, experienced POVs. Your talks on passive vs active speakers were similarly excellent. No one else is nailing it as comprehensively as AH.
I absolutely love Dolby Atmos & DTS X at home, I have a 7.1.4 setup at home with my Atmos speakers on the ceiling. I’m using the SVS Prime elevation speakers mounted on my ceiling. Some mixes are good to great.
My space doesn't really allow for 7.1, as the couch is against the back wall... debating on if I want to go with 5.1.2 or 5.1.4, theres a decent jump in price for the extra processing power of a 7-9ch AVR and the extra speakers. Starting from an ancient 90s Dolby Pro Logic setup, I think I am going to get a modern 5.1 reciever, then as I am able to, a better set of speakers, 4K TV, and then maybe look into a really good AVR and the 4 extra speakers to add at that point. A few 5.1 options are out there in the sub $300 range, and I think it would be a great upgrade over old 90s pro logic...
@@isaiahfurrow7414 can get the monoprice 5.1.2 setup if you want to play around with Atmos and see if it's for you. That plus a used (accessories4less.com) Onkyo 676 AVR is sub 500 total for the setup. Definitely a great first system to try out and see if it's worth investing serious money in the tech. The newest AVRs are also dropping with 120hz/4k (Hdmi 2.1) in a few months so worth it to wait on a serious system setup and not buy an expensive unit now for it to lack the VERY worth it tech of 4k/120hz. I think Yamaha makes one now but without Dolby Vision so not worth buying
For someone like me in a relatively small house in the UK with low ceilings, two very young children and a very low budget a sound bar is literally my only option. So I love the fact that I can choose to have a ‘faux Atmos’ experience as it is the best I can get in my situation. It has up-firing speakers and thanks to my narrow room with low ceilings I do actually get sound coming down from above me. It is never going to match a dedicated set up nor will it match a Cinema, but for me with my £500 budget it provides me with a great experience for my little house. I reject the notion of snobbery that comes from people who have the room and money to do a home cinema, that these sound bars are trash or ruin what Atmos is. Because without my set up I would not get to enjoy the fly-overs and immersive sounds of some of the best Atmos movies like Kong Skull Island or Pacific Rim! I used to have two very expensive speakers to listen to music and watch my movies (bought pre-kids) and they were terrific but not immersive at all. As I started to watch more movies than I listened to music, I made the switch to this ‘faux’ immersive experience and haven’t looked back. It’s great fun and suitable for my situation. I understand that this may not be the right video or channel for me but your disregard for the average consumer should not go unquestioned.
i like your comment, i think its helpful too for alot of people who dont have the budget/room/.. but still want to enjoy a good movie experience. (ps my english is not native)
Yeah the snobbery is so annoying. I have heard some soundbars sound really good and as long as you are enjoying it, that is all that matters. Thanks for speaking up about this.
My low budget entry-level Pionner Elite VSX-LX103 and Andrew Jones speakers (2 floorstanding non-elite + center non-elite + 4 surround non-elite + subwoofer elite) cost less than an Atmos enabled sound bar. People need to do a better research before shopping.
Andre N - As I said in my post, a sound bar is literally my only option due to the size/layout of my living room as well as budget and not to mention that I have two small children running all over the place. You have only just further proved my point in the snobbery going on here. So actually, no, I don’t need to do more research. I don’t want my kids running into floor standing speakers and sadly wall mounted speakers all around my room would not work either (I honestly wish it would, but it doesn’t). Try to consider other people’s situations and read their posts before posting a response yourself. Besides, there is no need to write like that and assume I, or anyone else for that matter, has to do more research when it is not the case. I did get my Atmos & DTS-X enabled sound bar for £499 brand new. So I would not assume that your setup or any other physical setup would be cheaper than an Atmos sound bar. I hope you enjoy your movie experience and get the most out of your system like I do. There’s just no need to put others down like that.
These guys are audio snobs basically. They have huge systems which most of us could never get because it requires a huge dedicated theatre room and high end speakers worth tens of thousands of dollars. Unless you've heard the very best audio with the best equipment you don't know what to judge it against. Most of their conversation won't be relevant to people. I just bought a 5.1.2 system and it sounds as good as anything I've ever heard. Neighbours would lose their minds if you would have anything bigger, if they're not already.
I don't even have an Atmos system but I'll tell ya - when I play the new Abbey Road remix, in Atmos, it completely blows away the DTS-HD surround mix. Very submersive!!! The same goes for any Atmos encoded movies. I am elderly and my sound system is quite expensive, (approx. $14,000 - YAMAHA/Definitive Technology/JBL/Oppo/Samsung), so I don't see myself upgrading to Atmos any time soon, if ever. I am VERY pleased with what I hear with my present system.
Totally agree with James's final remark. If they would have come up with a more flexible system for speaker positioning, that would have helped a lot. I just upgraded from 5.1 to 7.1.4 using wall-mounted down-firing speakers for heights as per the Atmos/Auro compatible guidelines, and those heights certainly add to the immersiveness.
The times I notice Atmos the most are in video games surprisingly. For instance in open world games I can here exactly where enemies are in relation to my character moving with my movements around the room, and with weather improvements in games it really does feel like it's raining or the winds blowing which has greatly inhanced the experience. For movies I'm probably alone but my favorite is the slower parts hearing small details all around verses the heavy action scenes where there's just so much sound it feels like I just moved speakers in different spots in the old 7.2 system.
Games is easy, you render them yourself op the gaming system or PC, so it does 12+4 whatever you have. Most sources are just Stereo, and there is it were Atmos failed, no support in the Music industry, no sources!
@@lucasrem its getting there with music, i have amazon music and some newer song support atmos, others a generic "360" although alot of my playlist is older songs and 90% of the time i listen to it is in my truck on the way to work so🤷♂️
To ALL of you that seem to have an issue with James, GO somewhere else... This about our love for audio. Go stare in a mirror and tell yourself how “wonderfully brilliant” you would be sitting in his place. Thank you Gene, Matt and James.
Upgraded an 18 year old Onkyo TX SR 700 to a Denon 4500 with my existing 5.1 speaker setup (5 Ascend CBM 170s and an Adire Audio Rava) . Long overdue. After enjoying getting it dialed in with Audyssey and getting my speaker placement as good as I think it can get I decided on adding 4 RSL C34E in ceiling speakers. My room didn't really accommodate the Dolby spec 45 degrees placement. So, I had to improvise a little. Maybe not the most perfect Atmos/DTS X setup, but I'm very pleased with it once it got it all dialed in with Audessy and manual levels adjustments with spl meter. I'm personally stunned with DTS Neural X upmixing. Older Blurays and 2 channel music. High resolution streaming upmixed is one of the coolest things I've experienced! I'm not exactly sure how it interprets the sound realtime to route it, but it is amazing! My old DVD Audio discs mixed for surround don't really sound any better imo.
The issue in using height channels for many of us is the impracticality of installing height speakers into a home. Sure we can use the excuse, "wife factor" or "wife acceptance", but that's not what causes many to balk. We just don't find attempting to integrate more speakers into a living space is desirable. Of course cost gets factored into it. The best way to install any system requiring even more than 5.1 is a dedicated video and sound room. Dedicating a space separate from the other living and working spaces in the home suggests an income level sufficient to support a form of entertainment. Good if you can afford it. I actually backed out of a 7.2 to a more simplified 5.1 surround system, and I'm quite pleased with the results. Of course I'm not advocating it, just simply suggesting we don't necessarily have to chase the "latest & greatest", to have a good home theater experience. One other thing that I found in some recordings, this one I mention was done on purpose; some stereo recordings have depth and surround ques built in. Just two well placed speakers or good headphones can immerse you into the sound stage. The 1968 Moody Blues song, The Best Way to Travel" is a great song to listen to with headphones. The engineers panned their 4 channel recording setup to enhance the little blip going on. It was on the original record, I don't know how well it would work on CD releases.
Atmos relies on the film studios mixing competence which has been abysmal. Even now certain studios struggle delivering good mixes on non-atmos surround. Its not worth it.
Love Atmos, had it for just over three years. My set up is 7.1 plus 4 ceiling speakers so 11.1. I have had to place larger speakers to the rear after the first year as my room is long and i needed more clout from the rear, listening to the Atmos sound track from the film Gravity is just like you would expect to if you where there in space with the actors. Of course there is no sound in space but hay, there would be no movie with out the sound and sound makes a movie, its the drama the suspense sound is everything so my TV takes second place to the sound system, that is until later this year when the TV makes way for a projector and screen.
15Mbps maximum streaming vs 60Mbps minimum typically of blu-ray. There is no comparison lmao although Netflix does seem to have a pretty wild compression system and Vision looks pretty darn great on there compared to how I thought it would look
I have quite a simple 5.1.2 setup but there si quite a big difference compared to 5.1 with same speakers. However I enjoy more DTS:X, height channels are used more. I can actually notice sounds coming from above. With Atmos there are many situation when i expect to hear the plane, rain tunder from above but.... they are not loud enough and are covered by front and back.
I have a 5.2.4 set up in my living room, which is not a great sounding room by any means. However, my speakers are set up in more of the DTS-X and Auro-3D layouts for placement. Atmos is not bad overall. I enjoy the DTS and Auro formats more. When they especially shine the most though is during gaming. That might just be me being a “youngster” compared to most of the audience for this video though. It’s key in some games to be able to hear a 360 degree sound stage. If someone is trying to sneak or drive up behind me, I’ll hear it before I see them. Kind of tips me off. Overheard flyovers and things like this are effective too. Like the gentleman said in this video, games are a much better use of these audio formats (mainly because of the quality of the mixes) right now until movies and streaming/television catches up. The mixes for these need a BIG boost over what’s been done to date. I must say, I’m glad to have all 3 options on my receiver though. Wish Auro-3D would gain some more clout but... 🤷🏻♂️... marketing 😑
Completely agree with your comment, I have a 7.2.4 system in Denon´s "universal" setup (Atmos, DTS, Auro compatible) and the weakest link by far is usually the movie soundtrack itself. When you hear a proper 360 sound demo or play a AAA videogame it can be really impressive and immersive. Unfortunately a great deal of movie soundtrack mixes labelled as Atmos are Utmos crap. They barely use the top channels and are not much better than a plain 5.1 mix.
Patrick Mostly 1st person shooters but I’m not a big fan of headphones generally speaking. You’re not wrong. I know a lot of my friends do the headphones but my whole purpose for a 3-D audio surround system was to get that effect without the headphones so I’m not in my own little world while everyone else sits in silence. Nothing wrong with that but I have a wife, kids, guests, etc. Plus it’s the Living Room. To each their own. I just don’t really use Dolby Atmos much when I do. DTS and Auro seem to do a much better job imho
Either because the director or engineer is playing it safe or just know it's full affect. Then when the film comes out and in 2 hour movie you hear one sound in the top ATMOS speaker, it gets bashed to death in all of the Dolby ATMOS forums. But the ones that DO flawlessly execute proper ATMOS through out get massive praise. Like Mad Max Fury Road. I find it sad and unfortunate that so much time, money and R&D invested in the DUB mixing stages and all they have to do is push that fader up on the console to send a signal to the ATMOS track (yes I know it's a little more then pushing a fader, just making a point)
I am looking into it, and deciding how to go about upgrading my ancient 90s Dolby Pro Logic setup. My space doesn't really allow for 7.1 as the couch is against a back wall. Debating on just upgrading to a much better, real 5.1 setup...or adding ceiling speakers for Atmos and DTS-X. As I'm on a budget, and will be upgrading in steps, I think I am going to start with a basic new 5.1 AVR, then later once I have gotten a new 4K tv, and a set of better 5.1 speakers, then maybe look into adding more channels and 4 overhead speakers.
Does Gene not like how amplifier power is rated and communicated to the consumer??? I had no idea! I love the guy but he brings this up no matter what the topic is. Haha, I love it.
This is the 2nd best dream team of Audioholics. Of course NOTHING beats the Gene & Hugo duo, but until that happens (soon please) keep them coming. Haha just got to the part of video where you mentioned bringing back Hugo 🤣... didn't know he's in real estate. We kept getting told he focused on marketing. Why the deception? Now just let down all my hopes of bringing him back
As a totally blind movie lover, I love the idea of atmos and I have a lovely 5.1.4 system which after 1.5 years, I am still tinkering with and tuning. However, I have to say, I am disappointed with how little Atmos modern movies seem to make use of. Yes, it's definitely there, but it could be implemented so much better for so many movies. You have lovely standouts like Edge of Tomorrow, Hacksaw Ridge etc etc, but so few where i really feel all speakers are fully engaged and objects are moving properly between them to simulate real life.
I have a 7.2.2 set up and enjoy the Dolby surround up mixing more then Atmos. The problem is content, watching a 4K Blu-ray in Atmos just doesn’t have much height going on. When watching tv shows or movies in 5.1 up mixed sounds the best to me. My height channels I use are front height but I’m still getting the (invisible bubble) effect in my room. Listening to a Dolby Atmos Blu-ray demo disk is simply amazing. It is also mixed with way more height and surrounds that play at a much higher level then any movie that comes out in Dolby Atmos. Overall I love it, the downside is there is not Atmos music for iPhone users yet. I stream Tidal and the up mixing is very good. It just feels like Dolby content just kind of waters down anything that’s not in a Theater or demo environment.
Sounds about right, I have 5.1.4 so the front heights get used sides in 7.1 movies and stuff. My ceiling has drop thing around the sides so the ceiling mounts are actually angled about 45 degrees and they point right at the center seat. Seems to work pretty well. I do need some treatments on the front half of the ceiling though.
I have 7.1.4 system with no real budgetary or partner constraints. I think that Atmos adds 10-15%. It’s not revelatory. However, it does add to the experience. My 4 Atmos speakers cost about $1,000. No regrets here. Here’s the big but. It’s not a massive upgrade, it’s just an upgrade. I’m happy.
I heard Atmos for the first time in a well setup room in a hifi store, the sounds above my head sounded amazing and how it would throw the sounds separately from 1 speaker to the next had my head going all over the place chasing the sound.i think it was a distraction from the actual movie but maybe because I'm not used to it but a great experience.
Same for me too. I saw a neighbor to that to their TV in the 80s and I thought "Omg! You're a genius!" I was hooked since and spent many days at a Radio Shack, or Circuit City to look at A/V equipment.
Hahaha, I feel ya.... have had 2ch stereo hooked to TV in a few setups... with B speakers so there were fronts as well as B speakers at each emd of the couch... I am currently looking into upgrading a mid-90s Dolby Pro Logic reciever, and a Bose Acoustimass 10 set from that same era.... sooooo much has changed in just the last few years, let alone the last 20.... I think I am going to start with a basic modern 5.1 AVR, then upgrade to a 4K TV, save for a nicer set of 5.1 speakers, and maybe at that point, decide on 7, 9, or 11 channels and Atmos , or just sticking with 5.1 ...
I completely agree. It has been proven in tryouts and comparison that many movies, while there are things happening spatially above, the sound mix won´t really reflect any of that. AURO´s upscaler is somewhat better using the top channels, but unfortunately the weakest algorithm (Atmos) is the dominant one in the market. Example: ruclips.net/video/_U8SQFUhmtM/видео.html
Thank you boys... a very useful forum tonight to flesh out experiences and understandings... As we can seem there is still some variation in opinion and theory [not everyone sees one Holy Grail truth in this developing Atmos world], I held off on updating my receiver for over 16 years until now [it arrives next week; YAMAHA AVENTAGE AV RECEIVER - RXA2080B], but I am still learning that Atmos is no further along than when it made its debut. I agree with the line of thought that "Object" based signals technology should at least have advanced to where we had eliminated the need for a multitude of speakers... and yet here we still are. You gotta upgrade at some point. I pray to god that I will have enough useful power in the NEW Yamaha to flesh out a pleasant ATMOS experience. Bless you fine and even-tempered gentlemen for making a polite, and educational discussion possible and available. Too much time gets wasted on dudes that swear at each other and take offense at every little thought / theory we develop. God Bless, long life. :) Geo
Gene, I think I follow the point of this video. I have been researching for a long time now, and as a single parent on a budget, it has been overwhelming deciding what direction to go... 5.1, 7.1, 5.1.2, 5.1.4, etc... there are also SOOO many specs, and different pieces to this puzzel to sort out.... I have not been able to decide what to buy, and thus still have the same ancient 90s Pro Logic reciever and Bose Acoustimass 10 speakers ..... My space doesn't really work for 7.1, so I think the emd goal is 5.1.2 or 5.1.4.... but for now, I am going to just get a basic, modern 5.1 AVR .... then over the next year or 2 upgrade to a 4K TV, and then save for much better 5.1 speakers. Once I have the best 5.1 setup that I can do in my space, amd with my budget, I will then look into 2 or 4 more speakers, and a high end AVR that can deliver the chamnels and power to drive an Atmos setup. For now, I just have to decide which new 5.1 AVR to get. But at leat I have a new perspective that narrows things down to a point where I think I will finally start the upgrade process. We are spending far to much family time watching TV and movies these days to not get more out of the experience tham this Pro Logic, I know things will sound way different even on just 5.1 if it's a modern setup. Thanks for the channel, if you have any recommendations for decent 5.1 AVR options, please let me know.... hopefully I will habe something picked put amd ordered in the next couple weeks...
Have exactly the same problem, I have not room for 7.1 but have 7 1 avr, planning to use it for 5.1 Then later upgrade to new avr to 5.2.2 or 5.1.2 (with a iotavx avx 17 and 2 new speakers, I have wharfedale bi directional speakers but can probably not use them anywhere)
Ive always been a big Yamaha fan because of their presence speakers that I set up years ago before Atmos.That full spatial effect they give in movies and streaming was a game changer but I never use them for music. Atmos for me has been a non event. Putting speakers on the ceiling in a condo is a daunting task that would cause me nothing but issues.
I have a 5.1.2 (actually 4.1.2)setup with a bit haphazardly placed surrounds. I almost sit right up to the back wall and have the height speakers on a shelf high on the wall fireing forward. And I must say that atmos is still really worth it. Even the upmixing is incredible. I plan on building a proper cinema room and am really curious on how much better it can get when installed better/correct. I would choose an atmos 5.1.2 before a regular 7.1.
The sad surround sound truth... Atmos is designed for movie theaters! were the screen reaches FAR passed the left and right front channels which are positioned behind the screen! (playing Metro Exedus on pc which provides an atmos signal, the sound snaps entirely to the left and right fronts and heights as soon as the object is basically not in the center of the screen!) The combined use of center and fronts are way off and you can't correct it! If your using a media designed for atmos, set your receiver to dts nueral X and experience much more accurate channel transitions. Also their are basically 2 unspoken surround sound level setups particularly for games but also with movies, 1 where sound is perfectly calibrated to sound accurate with perfect channel level calibration, and the other where the media signal has drastically increased rear channel signal, decreased height and front channels and predominant center channel, unfortunately this the far more common sound level scenario!! so basically balanced surround sound with home use is an UNAVOIDABLE shitshow! I've been using and calibrating surround setup levels for 20 years, constantly dealing with the scenario were I want to switch back and forth between 2 games with dramatically different level and EQ setups, it sucks, and their is nothing we can do about this until either the surround sound world gets their act together and gets on the balanced and EQ leveled setup OR our receiver manufacturers give us the ability to switch calibration profiles! (currently using denon x4400h with a 7.3.4 focal setup) (((Spider-man ps4))), Dirt rally 2.0, and Shadow of the Tomb raider are 3 examples of media with perfectly calibrated levels which match perfectly with our receivers' calibration. MOST other sources have jacked up rear channels, very low height channels, and very faded front channels and dismal eq shifting... I consider this the "old" standard although the accurate standard has popped its head up here and there for the passed 20 years. totally lame. The reason why the level EQ disaster exists is because of and old common dedication to 'Stereo'. The sound we most commonly get is designed to be backwards compatible with the original 'Dolby stereo' which simulated surround with 2 channels...hens the the jacked up rear effects, weird fazing EQ and lost height distinction. Also the tv stereo speakers being at roughly the 1/4 and 3/4 marks under the screen. SOLUTION... Your receiver may have the ability to use usb for a save/load feature, get 2 usb sticks, save the perfect calibration using your receiver's calibration (which takes experimenting to get accurate usually) on to one usb stick. Then find the mid-ballpark calibration for your surround system's counterbalance setup for the somewhat varying inaccurate "post stereo" surround standard, put this calibration profile on the second stick. Then switch as needed...
'Atmos' standardized media WILL have inaccurate front and front height positioning until a design a variation for home setups where front channels are at the sides of the screen is created... You have to set your receiver to 7.1 nueral dts and adjust your front stage levels to be positionally accurate. Sigh..... Thanks guys! and thanks for hearing my rant! oh yeah, 2-channel music- dolby surround upmixer! 👍👍 (wide, deep, in-depth, smooth. Dts-good height use but, flat, too distinct, no depth...) games/movies- dts nueral X 👍👍 (I get accurate positional sound in games with dts,I look down to my feet in a game and the sound in front of me transitions smoothly to the heights. Not getting any of this with dolby...)
Well I think you all are right, with how water down atoms can be,but dobly atoms can be wonderful if done correctly. I wanted to come here and share my theater room set up: 1. Persona 7f for loudspeaker 2. Persona center channel 3. Iam using anthem p5 for the front stage 4. For the the four surrounds channel iam using paradigm elite7 I have anthem pva8 amp running my surrounds 5. Iam using paradigm elite3 for the ceiling and the pva8 will be assisting there also. 6. Last but not least I did 4 persona sub 1. 7. So after everything said and done I will 7.4.4 so is this a good system and buy the way my room is 20.5 x 16.5 x 10
Moving house this year, I was set on upgrading from 5.1, buying a Denon and going to 7.2.4..until I watched this. Now I’m wondering on going 7.2, buying a higher end Yamaha and having front n rear presence channels instead. Used to run 7.1 with front presence, till a lightning strike killed my Yammy v675, I just went 5.1 on my backup amp...I miss the set up, and presumed atmos would be the way to go forward. Decisions..! UK viewer, love the vids, even the stuff that goes over my head..pun intended.
Do some research. Atmos is now the default track for 4K discs and new netflix titles. I wouldn't base any decisions on this video. Atmos comes standard in AVRs now. Add 2 height channels. Done.
Trevor M Thanks for the reply. Oh, I’ll probably do it either way, curiosity n all that. It seems 2 or 4 ceiling speakers depends on room size, so I’ll look into that.
This video was terrible. Look if you want to do good Ht then do good HT. Don’t by a Onkuri HTiB and expect magic - not gonna happen. Get a powerful receiver (Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Anthem) get good speakers and get in-ceiling or on wall heights and you will be fine
I'm curious of what comes next, after Atmos. I remember when I thought 5.1 was a lot of speakers then 7.2 seemed extravagant. I have two height speakers now and like the open sound of Atmos. It seems to blend well and sound natural.
Atmos speaker’s to my understanding are just like your surround speaker’s . They enhance and help pull you further into the world on the screen. They don’t have to be monstrous but they do need to be good quality. The front three speakers are your hammers. Everything else is support. I’ve had a lot of success with 6.5” component speakers as surrounds and atmos speakers. Problem is manufacturers can take the speaker’s out of the boxes and make excellent support speakers but they then feel the need to charge more. They do the same with preamps and amplifier s as well.
People should understand the " balance" say X brand sells a 5.1.2, that's BAD. The balance is a 5.1.4, hence two top speakers two rear speakers. Always you want an opposite speaker.
I have a 7.4.2 in my basement - sounds awesome. Now... I have a 4 channel setup in the living room: 2 front bookshelves and 2 ceiling surrrounds. And sometimes the 4 channel setup feel more immersive than the basement’s... food for thought.
The main problem with Atmos is the lack of good Atmos content (movies and games). In an average Atmos movie it may be only A FEW SECONDS OF DECENT ATMOS experience. I have a 11.1 Atmos system but I don’t think it’s worth it, I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone . It’s better to invest into 5.1 high quality speakers and gear. It would give you much better results for 100% of the content instead of 1% of Atmos. Atmos is mostly about marketing. Most Atmos movies are mixed in reality in old channel based way for 99% of the duration of the content.
love your videos. keep up great work. I LOVE ATMOS (& DTS:X)! Only way I like seeing movies now is in ATMOS! Been watching you for years (since 2015, when first bought my first ATMOS-DTS:X Yamaha receiver). I hope you all are STAYing HEALTHY!
Great video. It always bothers me when I see videos where they turn off the base layer and they say very little is coming out of the ATMOS height speakers. I blame Dolby because you haven’t clearly explained how object-based sound works. And if you turn off the base layer you are killing ATMOS. I live in Europe and I feel Auto-3D is a more effective immersion technology but for some reason they can’t get a footing in the market. Plus another factor is the mixing. I think the mixers find it hard to mix an ATMOS track than they would say an AURO-3D channel based system.
Seems like all the same complaints about consumers who bought the surroundy round systems in early 2000's. Most people just want to take the time to set up their system properly, and those are the folks who get surveyed and writes Amazon and Best Buy reviews. A bulk of where this stuff is sold, what's a company to do?
James...well Atmos had majorly improved our home theater experience can't wait to taken it to the next level from 7.1.4 to the full 9.1.6 once it's cheap enough.
I'm not even bothering with an "Atmos" sound bar. I can't afford a $1000 soundbar and don't have the space or money for a multi speaker setup. So I'll just be buying a pair of $200-250 powered bookshelf speakers with a matching similarly priced sub (hopefully able to get both on a sale), hooked up directly to the TV's analogue jack and use the TV's built in virtual surround DSP. Soundbars duplicate so many facilities that are already on modern TV's, so you're paying for functions you don't need. And the core function, sound delivery, is compromised. And when you think about it, they don't really save space because their footprint on your media cabinet is long and sometimes very deep, with most of it being empty real estate, while speakers being more vertical orientation makes their footprint smaller. And you can't always guarantee that the bar will fit under your TV properly. Unless you're REALLY stuck for space and can't fit a 40inch TV in your room and you definitely need all the music streaming features, you'd be better off avoiding a soundbar.
The issue with Atmos is that it is not practical for most people's living spaces. It might make sense for a dedicated home theatre or an actual movie theatre, but not practical for a NYC apartment or a suburban ranch. Upward firing speakers fall short, and ceiling mounted speakers are not always feasable. An important aspect of any audio system is proper speaker placement. The more speakers there are, the more difficult it becomes to place them where they sound right. This can be an issue with open floor plans where rear walls are far away from the listening area. I have seen situations where, even in a new construction home's living room, space limitations result in front left and right speakers being positioned too close together. I think Atmos is too far-fetched and over reaching. It may find limited success for a dedicated niche high end market, but will be a failure in the mass market.
Most important take home for your viewers is that there is no substitute for quality gear if you want quality results. More crap simply gets you more crappy sound. Building a any sound system requires not only money but deepening our knowledge base. My front three channels and subs alone retailed for $6,000 three years ago. I of course did not pay retail as they were floor models. I like Atmos at my home, but I love it in a Dolby Theater. Yeah, 32 plus channel and over 10,000 watts make a huge difference.
My Elac Debut 2.0 Atmos speakers work really well. I have a plaster ceiling tho so that means they reflect very well and also means I do not have the choice of "in the ceiling"
I have 5.2 setup with a separate 5 channel amp. Took enough time getting speaker placement right that my wife questioned my sanity. Then ran audessy, set it to flat and tweaked the sub volume. Any more money spent would violate the law of diminishing returns. Enjoy your channel, keep up the great work.
I would try with and without Audyssey, and with and without Dynamic EQ. For me Audyssey (XT) ruins the soundstage by boosting the surrounds too high. So I had to reset the levels.
Having a 7.1.4 is very enjoyable. 14x24x8 living room. Luckily for me I have an attic above the room and installed 4 ceiling speakers. If you setup correctly it's great. Love watching movies and for me it is worth, especially because my wife enjoyed it as much as I do. Yes it is expensive to do it right, but being my hobby I am will to spend for it. Using dedicated amps is a must. I have a few friends that do the same. If it's your hobby why not, only live once. Also I tried a cheap processor, didn't do well and returned for an avm60. Now I am greatly satisfied.
My first home theater setup in my first home is the 5.1.4 setup with 4 klipsch rp 8060fa, rp504c and sl115subwoofer. I wanted to spend less than 6k on speakers. I own a denon x4600h and my monolith 7channel amp is on it's way. So far I love dolby atmos and I do hear my height speakers bounce in rain scenes and it fills my entire livingroom with live action sounds. Sounds beautiful like in the movies interstellar, alita and any gun movie films. Dolby atmos in public theaters dont sound like I'm engaged in the film because room is too big. My own home theater setup sounds a lot better than public theaters imo because I'm engaged into cleaner upclose sound in smaller room. I'm new to the home theater game and I'm always open to learn more. What are your thoughts on the klipsch reference premiere 8060fa speakers? Which dolby atmos speakers other than klipsch would you guys recommend for a 5 1.4 setup under 6k?
I saw Dune at an AMC theater with Dolby Cinema, but I didn't really hear much directional audio aside from the demo before the movie started. It was certainly louder.
My Atmos system is 5.1.2 because I have a smaller room. I have a Marantz AV running the system. My problem is, I'm not sure if I have the settings on the AV correctly setup. I'm always telling the system what's the capacity of the DVD.
I really love stereo listening but also want to take advantage of a good surround upmixer for stereo music. Try them all and for me the most natural and close to the original stereo sound is Auro 3d by far. Switching between stereo and auro is almost inaudible in a good sense ; you only get a better stereo imaging and soundstage and a sense of space. DtsX is unusable for stereo and Dolby comes second with the center spread On, although it dumps a little to much content in the surrounds for my taste
I wish Auro3D was more widespread than it is. Haven't heard an Auro3D setup yet, although i could convert my atmos setup to one. It's just not worth the effort because of lack of content compared to Atmos. I also find that Atmos mixes can be a hit or miss. Some are brilliant (even subtle ones), but there are also those that are way to forward in the sides or heights. I wish AVR's had 'group' gain settings for surrounds and heights, so changing something on the fly to my liking would be quicker and easier, instead of changing every channel seperately. Adjusting seperate 'group' amps just doesnt work cause it doesnt take the sub(s) into account. But i like tech so i'll keep tinkering none the less, although improvements can and should be made more often in the industry. Unfortunately i guess as a sound engineer my list of 'wants' is just not feesable for the consumer market. ps. If Auro3D somehow would take the world by storm, i'd switch in a heartbeat, not because i'd 'have' to but because all i've seen and read about it looks to me that it's the better format.
So I bought a Onkyo NR676 receiver last year for $230 brand new and hooked it up to my existing 5.1 satellite speaker system and it was a really nice upgrade over my old NR535 for every multi channel source I fed it! AND, then months later I installed the Dolby Atmos app on my Xbox One S and noticed a HUGE upgrade when watching Netflix with Atmos supported shows(especially Taylor Swift's Live Concert) without adding any new speakers! I'm guessing that it's because of the increase in bit rate over the old Dolby Digital + and not because of some magic being done by Atmos processing, but it took me from being a "Atmos is a gimmick" guy to someone who is now a believer.
@@demonreturns4336 It actually a really good reference source to hear the difference between using DD+ and Dolby Atmos on Netflix! You don't have to like her music, but she performs with a full band and uses top quality equipment and production, so the sound quality it amazing!
@@TerminatorJuice I'm just teasing you man.... variety is the spice of life! I've gotten sucky movies before JUST because I heard they had good HDR or 4K refernce demo material
@@demonreturns4336 My music library ranges from Taylor Swift to Marilyn Manson(and just about everything in between), and I'm secure enough to say that she is a very talented song writer and performer! And her Live Concert on Netflix is proof of that! So even if you don't think you like her music, I'd still recommend checking it out... Unless you have an issue with amazing legs and talk leather boots, that is! Lol
Does Atmos use a higher bit rate than Dolby True HD or DTS MA? Back in the day going from 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS to 5.1 Dolby True HD and DTS MA was a significant upgrade in my living room with the same speakers... So is there any benefit in regards to the placement of sounds with a Atmos soundtrack with only a 5.1 speaker system vs Dolby True HD?
Everyone puts the sofa against the wall....yet these surround systems require speakers behind the seats to work best. Very frustrating. Then they wanna say ' no dipoles!". When I bet that might help... Considering placing my sofa in the middle of floor, requiring I walk around it....or maybe I move it into position for movies?
serious question here: i love quality audio but i cant enjoy it as it bothers my wife and kids. I would like to see a video on this situation, I compromise with headphones and would like to know if there is an atmos ready solution, thanks.
only Atmos-certified headphones right now are from Plantronics which is used in conjunction with the Xbox one X and you have to pay a small price for the software to enable it.
@@victormuriel7266 I've got some tactile underneath but only for lower frequencies for added bass feeling, helps in apartments so you still feel the bass without annoying neighbours. My thought was with an example scene of a deadly roller coaster and the camera angle is from the pov aspect of the to be victim, screams would literally be heard from underneath you. Easier and more feasible to achieve than atmos as anyone can put some speakers under a chair. I think industry spec wise it would have to be a mid to low frequency led speaker as most movie scenes which could make use of that are things like looking at a huge gaping hole from above where the soundtrack is mostly low frequency. Also if high frequency sound waves are more direct which would work badly under a chair. Dolby hire me lol. My examples may not be the best but hope it makes sense
I got the Denon X3600H...9.2 (11.2 processing) for $800 new this week, upgrade from Onkyo TX-NR676.....7.2..($550 3 yrs ago)..the difference is night and day on quality, power, and features. Wow. I already had 2 atmos speakers in ceiling (polk, $150 for a pair) and a spare pair of polk bookshelves that I added to make it 4 channel with the denon just needed wall mounts Its phenomenal, and for minimal added expense over 5.1. You people are smart, but crazy. (Or communicate your point poorly)
I think the major problem with the height speakers lies in their directivity and off axis response. Almost by definition, you are going to get a very different listening window when you put speakers 5 ft above your head. As a result, you are going to be hearing off axis sound, and I don't know of any speaker that are designed to deliver quality sound when listened to 40-60 degrees off axis. The lovely spinorama characteristic which was so painstakingly engineered into those Philharmonic speakers will be utterly unrealizable when you listening window is shifted by 40 degrees vertically. So even if you placed six of them on 8 foot stands to be your height speaker, I doubt they would sound very good, even though they are obviously excellent speakers when placed at ear level. And of course most speakers have far, far worse vertical dispersion then they do horizontal, with the possible exception of coincident drivers like the Kef LS50s which will exacerbate the problem even further.
So just angle the speakers with a bracket? Also it's probably a waste of money to use big Philharmonic speakers as a height speaker. Their smallest Philharmonic True Minis are 380 USD per pair and the off axis measurements posted on their site look fine. Maybe that is still a waste of money and you're better off with some cheaper on wall or in ceiling speakers.
i use 18 year old technics sb-arc 140 satelite speakers, my technics reciever was broken and i replaced it whit the marantz 8805 ,the MM8077 , MM7025 for front and technics sb-g90 front speakers, the source are a PC digital coax ,XBOX ONE X max of 7 channels, :-( and a 1993 technics cd-player SL-PG340A simple rca out, but i use good quality cables, and 2 yamaha ns-sw300 powered subs, the improvement from marantz on all that old stuff, you would be suprised, i bouth extra sb-arc140 from a guy in netherland for 60€ for 5speakers ,i love the way when i play games on the xbox , but listening to music in stereo it 's .... the extra details the marantz delivers, but i could never believe that the old speakers could handle the sound to, marantz and technics is winning combination ,i dont believe in that expensive super de luxe high end stuff, whit a lot of numbers on the pricetag ,that's troffeeshit to me, it's all about to what YOU want to hear or how it sounds, not how your "neighbour" wants it, greats from BELGIUM
My AVR is Atmos-capable, but so far I've stuck with basic 5.1 in my living room. I think about getting a pair of SVS Elevations as an alternative to ceiling holes/bouncy house but can't quite commit. Upgrading feels good psychologically, but probably not necessary for me. Good discussion, though I took a little issue with Matt's casual mention of $10K for a sound system. . way out of my (and probably most people's) price range.
The biggest issue in the music world, is the logistics are so complicated between DAW's, Renderer apps, etc. It's a clusterfuck to just make the product...
I have an old school Denon AVR 4520CI and i m satisfied with 9.1 surround. I've listened to Dolby Atmos and the improvement in sound doesn't justify the cost in my opinion. I prefer left and right wide speakers compared to the left and right height speakers. Maybe if my Denon bites the dust, but i keep her serviced, covered when not in use and run big but low noise cooling fans. Atmos is a no go for me right now.
So true but sad that so few people can even set up a 5.1 system. Truth is half or more of the consumers can’t even hook up an AVR to their tv. They pay bestbuy $125 to plug it in for them.
Why no Atmos for me? 1) I live in an existing house where running lines in the walls and cutting holes in my ceiling would cost more than my current system. This is before I buy the processor, amplification, speaker and cables required to add them. 2) If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to put that money into improving the quality of my speakers, subwoofers (especially multisub) amplification and processing, not adding on more channels. 3) The popularity of these systems have definitely caused a reduction in the quality of components per dollar. The more licenses a receiver manufacture has to pay the less money there is for componetns 4) Setup time. I already spent hours to get my 5.2 system set up correctly. Do I really want to do this for a 7.2, 9.2 or 11.2 channel system. Nope. I'll spend my money to build 2.0 and 2.1 systems in every room of my house first. What Matt said at the 18 to 20 min mark really resonated with me. Great video. Thumbs up!
Hey guys, great video, nice insights. Let's get 2.0 right, then 2.2 right, then maybe 5.2 right. About that, I've been thinking a lot lately about your video "How Many Speakers Do You Need for Good Sound?" and I think you almost convinced me around the idea of moving away from pure stereo reproduction. But since most source content is stereo, a lot of questions arises around upmixing etc. Maybe a video on this specific subject could interest your audience (what upmixing codec to use, how to set it up, etc.)?
You guys mention getting your base speakers first but dont you need to timbre match your atmos speakers? With older speakers dont you run the risk of not being able to get atmos speakers in the same series? I have a 7.1 setup but there very old and discontinued so what option does one have to add atmos to such a setup?
Timbre matching is overkill for Atmos. It is mostly used for ambient noise or panning special effects, positioning matters far more. IMO, one of the best ways to add Atmos is Polk RC80i for $150 a pair. If your receiver can support it, I would encourage using a 5.2.4 before 7.2.2.
I have discontinued kef speakers and had no trouble finding used ones in excellent condition on ebay. I'm not sure about the importance of timber matching but you should be able to find speakers with similar designs that will be close enough.
@@qua7771 I use 2 x 5.1 KEF discontinued older but high quality systems combined together and driven by an Anthem MRX 1140 8K AVR wired to get a 5.2.4 Atmos system : Base 5 is Fronts=iQ9s Center=iQ6c Side surrounds=iQ3 2 SWs= PSW3500 + T-2 (from a T-205 5.1 kit) independantly ARC tuned and combined courtesy of Anthem 4 Atmos speakers at 45⁰ top of ceiling down firing consisting of 2 Horizontal T-301s Fronts and 2 horizontal T-101s Rears (from the same T-205 5.1 kit) I found these have the perfect Atmos qualities: very rugged, thin and small, flat, outstanding dispersion, low distorsion and response.
@@chevalde31 I'm using two PSW3500's as well. My receiver is a Marantz SR-7012. I thought about upgrading, but I don't really have a need to. I'm using KEF eggs for Atmos. They seem fine for the information they carry. (ambience, birds, planes etc...). My bigger concern is room acoustics. I haven't had much time to address that issue. I barely have time to enjoy the system. Thanks for sharing your set-up.
So i have 7.1 speaker set up purchasing a new amp soon most of my 4k movies are atmos sound so is it ok or wise to keep watching the atmos movies in a 7.1 set up ?
Interesting conversation guys. I haven’t taken the ATMOS plunge since my Marrantz AV8003 isn’t ATMOS capable. I feel that this tech would be more justified in a larger room with high ceilings more than a smaller room. I absolutely agree on getting the core of your system right first before going the ATMOS route. Presently I’m quite happy with my 5.4 system because it’s very dialled in. The biggest and most important purchase were my front three GedLee speakers, these are the core of the great sound in my room. Second would be my multi sub setup..if you aren’t using 3-4 subs, then you really should think about buying more subs, and set them up properly. I will be setting up for ATMOS in the near future because I recently ordered a Marantz SR7013 so I’ll finally get to see what the fuss is all about. When ATMOS first came out, I couldn’t justify taking the plunge( I already hear localized and ambient effects in my room from my walls and ceiling where there is no speakers present so I thought ATMOS was a gimmick when it was launched ). Now that I’m buying a new receiver, I may think about setting my system up for it. Anyways, I enjoyed the discussion and agree with a lot of the things you said.
Dan Kesler Not at all, the waveguides are very clear and precise, and they image like no other speaker that I’ve heard. They are the only speakers that I’ve owned that will easily play to full reference volume levels without hurting my ears. They are great for movie surround tracks and for two channel music. They weren’t cheap, but I’m very glad I bought them. I also didn’t use any room correction in my room( again, the first speakers I own that didn’t need them ), I just manually setup my distance and speakers levels with a db meter. I also manually setup my subs with a MiniDSP 2x4 by following Earl Geddes’ multi sub setup guidelines. I’ve never been more satisfied with any HT system than I am today. I haven’t felt the ‘upgraditis’ itch for years when before I felt the need to do something every few months. Now I can just enjoy my system rather than want more. Admittedly though, I have the itch to build some subwoofers and using high efficiency pro drivers, but I’m in no rush. I will eventually do that though because high efficiency speakers are the way to go IMO.
Look UP interesting. We have issues all the time but I only have a Sony ct370 sound bar. I found some benefit with bumping up treble a bit and moving everything to stereo. I’m trying to decide if I want to spend 1400 or so on a nice 3.1 set up so we don’t have to keep riding the volume up and down. Our local audio store recommended paradigm 3000f towers and center and a Denon receiver with the room correction. Then he said we can turn center channel up if needed. We really don’t listen to stuff loud though
Dan Kesler what I always recommend to friends who have heard my system and want a similar sound is to check out the kits at www.diysoundgroup.com are selling( now that Earl quit building and selling his speakers ). If you don’t mind building and painting, their flatpack kits will be very hard to beat for the money spent. They use high efficiency pro woofers and compression drivers, and their MDF panels are all CNC cut. Just read the reviews on their website, their customers are very happy. A properly setup high-efficiency waveguide speaker is pretty hard to beat. Check them out, they sell them in different sizes ranging from an 8” woofer up to a 15”. I’d get the single woofer kits with a compression driver and waveguide. That will fix any clarity problems you’re currently experiencing. You’d have to spend thousands of dollars on store bought boutique speakers to even come close to the performance from the DIY kits they sell. Hope that helps you some.
I have some Onkyo speakers that I have on top of my front and rear speakers. I have these Onkyo speakers slanted towards the ceiling and am using these speakers as Atmos up-firing speakers. Do you think this is a good idea?
Audioholics yes, that makes sense. I listened to the entire video as well and you make some really good points. I’m just a little worried since I’m basically using a DIY solution instead of using licensed Dolby Atmos up-firing speakers. But it sounds pretty good. Do you have any videos or other content on DIY Atmos speakers? I’d be interested in your thoughts on it.
What if let’s say I have a Denon AVR S750H and Dayton Audio Mk442 as LCRs, and surrounds, and I just want to add 2 Dayton Audio MK402x as elevation speakers aimed at my listening position. All things were set like calibration, EQ, room acoustics, the channels are installed correctly, and calibrated with an SPL. Angled, toed in. Everything. I mean, can I make sound worse by adding those two Atmos elevation speakers?
Here, the worst about Atmos cheap. 5.1.2 instead of 5.1.4 or with whatever number of speakers you add. You want 2 top front and 2 top back. Ideally if you add more, should be two or four middle top, always pairs to balance the sound. Still even in a movie theater, the sweet spot is just one spot.
Are you sure that the atmos movie discs we get are have same mix as what is released in theatres? I doubt it. If you listen to atmos demo videos, it rocks at my home and I feel the same when I see those demo videos in theatres. However the movies sould unimpressive at home, especially the height channels whereas same movies sound better in theatre
Reality is Dobly is nearly as strengent on qaulity for Atmos as it is for Dolby Vision. Even if you got a top flight system the atmos expereince will vary wildly from movie to movie. More so than how wildly different it is on standard surround 5.1 mixes. Right now if youre using atmos you need to upmix nearly everything including the Atmos movies since many movies hardly use the atmos channels. The setup has guidelines and standards but the mixes have no such standards so you can claim "atmos" on the movie and have one sound come out the channel in a 2 hour movie. Thats the real problem.
Beyond the technical issues and if when it’s done well can it THEORETICALLY be good… cost to POTENTIALLY make system sound good etc… a big practical issue is, are the studios producing enough good Atmos mixes to make it actually worthwhile? ‘Stop the FOMO’ RUclips channel listened to Mad Max Fury Road and of the 2hr movie, the Atmos speakers were active for total of 12 minutes.. 2 of those minutes were directional.. rest atmospheric, sound track.. so LITERALLY 90% of time the height speakers are silent… and watched several other with mixed results.. but even the best he listened to (John Wick 2) had way more Atmos content and when used was good… but had TONS of scenes that CLEARLY would benefit from Atmos… but nothing… mixed results scenes to scene and even within the scenes.. The potential is undeniable, but from a practical, real world point of view is the cost and complexity worth it given that given that studios seem to cheaping out and investing so little on mixes and so not taking advantage of the potential of Atmos?? 🤔
I agree that sound bars does not provide complete or satisfying experience..I didn't even feel left and right .. stereo experience..I was using sabre35 from Harman..I upgraded to Denon with 5.1.2.. Now I experience 5.1 clearly.. Yet to put Atmos speakers as content itself is limited
@@Audioholics I had never watched this channel before. I was just trolling because in the video you mentioned him. The fact that you took the time to reply is really something. You have earned a sub. Keep up the good work!
Guys I think you're right. The height FX are minimal, but...... as for now 2023 Apple Music is distributing a lot of Dolby Atmos mixes in Apple Music, and that is where the real improvement is!!! Just give it some more time. You're right about getting the basics right first. You're right about receiver not getting better because all amps need to be their, and they're not sufficient for driving all channels with enough headroom. But... Atmos was the reason I upgraded to 7.1.2 but the reality is the upgrade to 7.1 was far more noticable than the 2 extra height speakers. Speakers in ceiling is just idiot, nobody will do that. I have the Auro 3D setup so height speakers in front above my front speakers in a 30° angle
I like this idea of a 3 mic that could triangulate speaker placement, but lets be realistic and that would be much cheaper just to be able to key in the x y z distances to the listening positions, of each speaker, in an App (or web page). Then the processor would know the physical placement of each speaker. Its just not always possible to follow exactly the dicted placement. And it should not have to be the case for object oriented sound. That’s the whole point of real time mixing.
Is 3.1.2 ever worth doing? I live in an apartment and it's not really practical to have rear surrounds in the living room, it's a small space and we are sitting all the way against the back wall. I currently have a 2.0 set up, and have been thinking about getting a soundbar something like the Samsung q90r or the Sony one that does some sort of digital surround, to have a surround experience. I know the samsung has rear channels, but they are wireless and pretty small and I figured I wouldn't have to use them if it didn't really make a difference. The living room is also our primary music space, which is why we have a 2.0 system now, but 2.0 isn't great for TV or movies, we always seem to lose the dialogue and the effects are always way too loud. So I'm at a crossroads, of either adding a center channel or moving to a soundbar to improve our movie and TV watching. if I kept the current set up and kept upgrading I'd eventually moved to a 3.1.2 which is why I wondered if that was worth it. Any ideas?
Late response but that is my setup in my small living room. I started out with 2 Polk bookshelf speakers then added a subwoofer and later a Polk center channel. All together it sounded great. Last I added 2 Sony Atmos upfiring speakers to get the bouncy off the ceiling sound these guys referred to. I chose the upfiring speakers as I was too lazy to install speakers in the ceiling. If it added anything to my sound experience it's so subtle I can't hear it. Ha. But it's one of those you get what you pay for things. I went easy and cheap.....and didn't gain much.
You make a lot of good points here. Just a quick thought.. Dolby Atmos is based on a room of specific dimensions/acoustics. This is not what you would find in most homes. Another point would be no one room of the same dimensions sound identical to one another. I bring this up for this reason, not all rooms are meant for Atmos, DTS Xor other. I could go into so much more but I won't. Keep fighting the good fight or just base decisions on knowledge and not gues work.
With the lack of good mixing camp. The scene in "for all of mankind" when the soldier on the military base parking lot reunites with his wife and the plane pans ovehead is what atmos should be.
There are audiophiles who are very serious about their sound, have the money to invest in good - excellent quality equipment and have listened to multiple systems to be able to make comparisons and judgement. Then there are those “audiophiles” who are theoretical - they want great sound and have knowledge but little practical experience and exposure due to financial or other constraints. Then the third category are the people who don’t know or care about the difference between good and bad sound. This video, although very insightful and something I really enjoyed, doesn’t have any practical value for me at this point. But I have learned something and will remember this for the future. I belong to the second category by the way. I have a decent 5.1.2 Atmos system with small speakers and a good SVS sub. I know the folks in the video won’t be happy with my satellite speakers which by the way are not positioned optimally. But because I belong to the second category I did the best I could with my budget and space constraints (given my system is in my living room) and I am very happy with the sound.
Just want to point out that folks that are happy with their sound are happy.
This says it all for me as well. Best part of my setup is one of the main takeaways from the video, getting the base layer right ie. the bass and front stage.
Damn - You guys are THE best. Such a great, balanced mix of informed, thoughtful, experienced POVs.
Your talks on passive vs active speakers were similarly excellent.
No one else is nailing it as comprehensively as AH.
I absolutely love Dolby Atmos & DTS X at home, I have a 7.1.4 setup at home with my Atmos speakers on the ceiling. I’m using the SVS Prime elevation speakers mounted on my ceiling. Some mixes are good to great.
My space doesn't really allow for 7.1, as the couch is against the back wall... debating on if I want to go with 5.1.2 or 5.1.4, theres a decent jump in price for the extra processing power of a 7-9ch AVR and the extra speakers. Starting from an ancient 90s Dolby Pro Logic setup, I think I am going to get a modern 5.1 reciever, then as I am able to, a better set of speakers, 4K TV, and then maybe look into a really good AVR and the 4 extra speakers to add at that point. A few 5.1 options are out there in the sub $300 range, and I think it would be a great upgrade over old 90s pro logic...
@@isaiahfurrow7414 can get the monoprice 5.1.2 setup if you want to play around with Atmos and see if it's for you. That plus a used (accessories4less.com) Onkyo 676 AVR is sub 500 total for the setup. Definitely a great first system to try out and see if it's worth investing serious money in the tech. The newest AVRs are also dropping with 120hz/4k (Hdmi 2.1) in a few months so worth it to wait on a serious system setup and not buy an expensive unit now for it to lack the VERY worth it tech of 4k/120hz. I think Yamaha makes one now but without Dolby Vision so not worth buying
For someone like me in a relatively small house in the UK with low ceilings, two very young children and a very low budget a sound bar is literally my only option. So I love the fact that I can choose to have a ‘faux Atmos’ experience as it is the best I can get in my situation. It has up-firing speakers and thanks to my narrow room with low ceilings I do actually get sound coming down from above me. It is never going to match a dedicated set up nor will it match a Cinema, but for me with my £500 budget it provides me with a great experience for my little house.
I reject the notion of snobbery that comes from people who have the room and money to do a home cinema, that these sound bars are trash or ruin what Atmos is. Because without my set up I would not get to enjoy the fly-overs and immersive sounds of some of the best Atmos movies like Kong Skull Island or Pacific Rim!
I used to have two very expensive speakers to listen to music and watch my movies (bought pre-kids) and they were terrific but not immersive at all. As I started to watch more movies than I listened to music, I made the switch to this ‘faux’ immersive experience and haven’t looked back. It’s great fun and suitable for my situation.
I understand that this may not be the right video or channel for me but your disregard for the average consumer should not go unquestioned.
i like your comment, i think its helpful too for alot of people who dont have the budget/room/.. but still want to enjoy a good movie experience. (ps my english is not native)
Yeah the snobbery is so annoying. I have heard some soundbars sound really good and as long as you are enjoying it, that is all that matters. Thanks for speaking up about this.
My low budget entry-level Pionner Elite VSX-LX103 and Andrew Jones speakers (2 floorstanding non-elite + center non-elite + 4 surround non-elite + subwoofer elite) cost less than an Atmos enabled sound bar. People need to do a better research before shopping.
Andre N - As I said in my post, a sound bar is literally my only option due to the size/layout of my living room as well as budget and not to mention that I have two small children running all over the place. You have only just further proved my point in the snobbery going on here.
So actually, no, I don’t need to do more research. I don’t want my kids running into floor standing speakers and sadly wall mounted speakers all around my room would not work either (I honestly wish it would, but it doesn’t).
Try to consider other people’s situations and read their posts before posting a response yourself. Besides, there is no need to write like that and assume I, or anyone else for that matter, has to do more research when it is not the case.
I did get my Atmos & DTS-X enabled sound bar for £499 brand new. So I would not assume that your setup or any other physical setup would be cheaper than an Atmos sound bar.
I hope you enjoy your movie experience and get the most out of your system like I do. There’s just no need to put others down like that.
These guys are audio snobs basically. They have huge systems which most of us could never get because it requires a huge dedicated theatre room and high end speakers worth tens of thousands of dollars. Unless you've heard the very best audio with the best equipment you don't know what to judge it against. Most of their conversation won't be relevant to people. I just bought a 5.1.2 system and it sounds as good as anything I've ever heard. Neighbours would lose their minds if you would have anything bigger, if they're not already.
I don't even have an Atmos system but I'll tell ya - when I play the new Abbey Road remix, in Atmos, it completely blows away the DTS-HD surround mix. Very submersive!!! The same goes for any Atmos encoded movies. I am elderly and my sound system is quite expensive, (approx. $14,000 - YAMAHA/Definitive Technology/JBL/Oppo/Samsung), so I don't see myself upgrading to Atmos any time soon, if ever. I am VERY pleased with what I hear with my present system.
Totally agree with James's final remark. If they would have come up with a more flexible system for speaker positioning, that would have helped a lot. I just upgraded from 5.1 to 7.1.4 using wall-mounted down-firing speakers for heights as per the Atmos/Auro compatible guidelines, and those heights certainly add to the immersiveness.
The times I notice Atmos the most are in video games surprisingly. For instance in open world games I can here exactly where enemies are in relation to my character moving with my movements around the room, and with weather improvements in games it really does feel like it's raining or the winds blowing which has greatly inhanced the experience. For movies I'm probably alone but my favorite is the slower parts hearing small details all around verses the heavy action scenes where there's just so much sound it feels like I just moved speakers in different spots in the old 7.2 system.
Games is easy, you render them yourself op the gaming system or PC, so it does 12+4 whatever you have.
Most sources are just Stereo, and there is it were Atmos failed, no support in the Music industry, no sources!
@@lucasrem its getting there with music, i have amazon music and some newer song support atmos, others a generic "360" although alot of my playlist is older songs and 90% of the time i listen to it is in my truck on the way to work so🤷♂️
To ALL of you that seem to have an issue with James, GO somewhere else... This about our love for audio. Go stare in a mirror and tell yourself how “wonderfully brilliant” you would be sitting in his place.
Thank you Gene, Matt and James.
Upgraded an 18 year old Onkyo TX SR 700 to a Denon 4500 with my existing 5.1 speaker setup (5 Ascend CBM 170s and an Adire Audio Rava) . Long overdue. After enjoying getting it dialed in with Audyssey and getting my speaker placement as good as I think it can get I decided on adding 4 RSL C34E in ceiling speakers. My room didn't really accommodate the Dolby spec 45 degrees placement. So, I had to improvise a little. Maybe not the most perfect Atmos/DTS X setup, but I'm very pleased with it once it got it all dialed in with Audessy and manual levels adjustments with spl meter. I'm personally stunned with DTS Neural X upmixing. Older Blurays and 2 channel music. High resolution streaming upmixed is one of the coolest things I've experienced! I'm not exactly sure how it interprets the sound realtime to route it, but it is amazing! My old DVD Audio discs mixed for surround don't really sound any better imo.
My hesitation with having too many speakers is eventually there's no separation and it all sounds like a wash of mono.
The issue in using height channels for many of us is the impracticality of installing height speakers into a home. Sure we can use the excuse, "wife factor" or "wife acceptance", but that's not what causes many to balk. We just don't find attempting to integrate more speakers into a living space is desirable.
Of course cost gets factored into it. The best way to install any system requiring even more than 5.1 is a dedicated video and sound room. Dedicating a space separate from the other living and working spaces in the home suggests an income level sufficient to support a form of entertainment. Good if you can afford it. I actually backed out of a 7.2 to a more simplified 5.1 surround system, and I'm quite pleased with the results. Of course I'm not advocating it, just simply suggesting we don't necessarily have to chase the "latest & greatest", to have a good home theater experience.
One other thing that I found in some recordings, this one I mention was done on purpose; some stereo recordings have depth and surround ques built in. Just two well placed speakers or good headphones can immerse you into the sound stage. The 1968 Moody Blues song, The Best Way to Travel" is a great song to listen to with headphones. The engineers panned their 4 channel recording setup to enhance the little blip going on. It was on the original record, I don't know how well it would work on CD releases.
Atmos relies on the film studios mixing competence which has been abysmal. Even now certain studios struggle delivering good mixes on non-atmos surround. Its not worth it.
Love Atmos, had it for just over three years. My set up is 7.1 plus 4 ceiling speakers so 11.1. I have had to place larger speakers to the rear after the first year as my room is long and i needed more clout from the rear, listening to the Atmos sound track from the film Gravity is just like you would expect to if you where there in space with the actors. Of course there is no sound in space but hay, there would be no movie with out the sound and sound makes a movie, its the drama the suspense sound is everything so my TV takes second place to the sound system, that is until later this year when the TV makes way for a projector and screen.
You have a 7.1.4 configuration, 11.1 would be 11 ear level speakers :)
Please cold you do an in-depth comparison between physical Blu-ray (2k/4k) and VOD services? With measurements for both video and audio. Thanks.
15Mbps maximum streaming vs 60Mbps minimum typically of blu-ray. There is no comparison lmao although Netflix does seem to have a pretty wild compression system and Vision looks pretty darn great on there compared to how I thought it would look
I wish these guys were in charge of the industry, we'd be in better hands. 😞
I have quite a simple 5.1.2 setup but there si quite a big difference compared to 5.1 with same speakers. However I enjoy more DTS:X, height channels are used more. I can actually notice sounds coming from above. With Atmos there are many situation when i expect to hear the plane, rain tunder from above but.... they are not loud enough and are covered by front and back.
I have a 5.2.4 set up in my living room, which is not a great sounding room by any means. However, my speakers are set up in more of the DTS-X and Auro-3D layouts for placement. Atmos is not bad overall. I enjoy the DTS and Auro formats more. When they especially shine the most though is during gaming. That might just be me being a “youngster” compared to most of the audience for this video though. It’s key in some games to be able to hear a 360 degree sound stage. If someone is trying to sneak or drive up behind me, I’ll hear it before I see them. Kind of tips me off. Overheard flyovers and things like this are effective too. Like the gentleman said in this video, games are a much better use of these audio formats (mainly because of the quality of the mixes) right now until movies and streaming/television catches up. The mixes for these need a BIG boost over what’s been done to date. I must say, I’m glad to have all 3 options on my receiver though. Wish Auro-3D would gain some more clout but... 🤷🏻♂️... marketing 😑
Completely agree with your comment, I have a 7.2.4 system in Denon´s "universal" setup (Atmos, DTS, Auro compatible) and the weakest link by far is usually the movie soundtrack itself. When you hear a proper 360 sound demo or play a AAA videogame it can be really impressive and immersive. Unfortunately a great deal of movie soundtrack mixes labelled as Atmos are Utmos crap. They barely use the top channels and are not much better than a plain 5.1 mix.
ROKUGAN EXACTLY! You said it brother! Using a Denon Receiver as well
What games are you playing? I still have a way easier time with directional and footsteps if I use headphones than my 5.1.4 setup.
Patrick Mostly 1st person shooters but I’m not a big fan of headphones generally speaking. You’re not wrong. I know a lot of my friends do the headphones but my whole purpose for a 3-D audio surround system was to get that effect without the headphones so I’m not in my own little world while everyone else sits in silence. Nothing wrong with that but I have a wife, kids, guests, etc. Plus it’s the Living Room. To each their own. I just don’t really use Dolby Atmos much when I do. DTS and Auro seem to do a much better job imho
@@Patrick-ml1eq Assassin´s Creed Origins/Odyssey is a good example of excellent surround sound.
Most ATMOS movies have zero content on height channels. The studios usually don't bother using them.
Either because the director or engineer is playing it safe or just know it's full affect. Then when the film comes out and in 2 hour movie you hear one sound in the top ATMOS speaker, it gets bashed to death in all of the Dolby ATMOS forums. But the ones that DO flawlessly execute proper ATMOS through out get massive praise. Like Mad Max Fury Road. I find it sad and unfortunate that so much time, money and R&D invested in the DUB mixing stages and all they have to do is push that fader up on the console to send a signal to the ATMOS track (yes I know it's a little more then pushing a fader, just making a point)
I am looking into it, and deciding how to go about upgrading my ancient 90s Dolby Pro Logic setup. My space doesn't really allow for 7.1 as the couch is against a back wall.
Debating on just upgrading to a much better, real 5.1 setup...or adding ceiling speakers for Atmos and DTS-X.
As I'm on a budget, and will be upgrading in steps, I think I am going to start with a basic new 5.1 AVR, then later once I have gotten a new 4K tv, and a set of better 5.1 speakers, then maybe look into adding more channels and 4 overhead speakers.
Does Gene not like how amplifier power is rated and communicated to the consumer??? I had no idea! I love the guy but he brings this up no matter what the topic is. Haha, I love it.
Every time he looks at an AVR sticker, which is a lot, you know he's triggered
This is the 2nd best dream team of Audioholics. Of course NOTHING beats the Gene & Hugo duo, but until that happens (soon please) keep them coming. Haha just got to the part of video where you mentioned bringing back Hugo 🤣... didn't know he's in real estate. We kept getting told he focused on marketing. Why the deception? Now just let down all my hopes of bringing him back
he'll be back during the next real estate downturn...😀
As a totally blind movie lover, I love the idea of atmos and I have a lovely 5.1.4 system which after 1.5 years, I am still tinkering with and tuning. However, I have to say, I am disappointed with how little Atmos modern movies seem to make use of. Yes, it's definitely there, but it could be implemented so much better for so many movies. You have lovely standouts like Edge of Tomorrow, Hacksaw Ridge etc etc, but so few where i really feel all speakers are fully engaged and objects are moving properly between them to simulate real life.
Totally agree
it’s such a shame so little movies are mixed correctly to give that immersive feel. even over the 7.2.4 system i rarely feel like i am in a bubble.
James closing statement was on point. Exactly what I was thinking when I implemented my Atmos setup.
I have a 7.2.2 set up and enjoy the Dolby surround up mixing more then Atmos. The problem is content, watching a 4K Blu-ray in Atmos just doesn’t have much height going on. When watching tv shows or movies in 5.1 up mixed sounds the best to me. My height channels I use are front height but I’m still getting the (invisible bubble) effect in my room. Listening to a Dolby Atmos Blu-ray demo disk is simply amazing. It is also mixed with way more height and surrounds that play at a much higher level then any movie that comes out in Dolby Atmos. Overall I love it, the downside is there is not Atmos music for iPhone users yet. I stream Tidal and the up mixing is very good. It just feels like Dolby content just kind of waters down anything that’s not in a Theater or demo environment.
RagingBee1 I couldn’t agree with you more.
I have a 7.4.4 Dolby Atmos setup. The heights speakers don’t get much uses in Dolby Atmos supported movies.
Sounds about right, I have 5.1.4 so the front heights get used sides in 7.1 movies and stuff. My ceiling has drop thing around the sides so the ceiling mounts are actually angled about 45 degrees and they point right at the center seat. Seems to work pretty well. I do need some treatments on the front half of the ceiling though.
I have 7.1.4 system with no real budgetary or partner constraints. I think that Atmos adds 10-15%. It’s not revelatory. However, it does add to the experience. My 4 Atmos speakers cost about $1,000. No regrets here. Here’s the big but. It’s not a massive upgrade, it’s just an upgrade. I’m happy.
Hugo is probably lifting real estate.
looks like he got Gene into lifting as well...could be the other way around.
Lol
I heard Atmos for the first time in a well setup room in a hifi store, the sounds above my head sounded amazing and how it would throw the sounds separately from 1 speaker to the next had my head going all over the place chasing the sound.i think it was a distraction from the actual movie but maybe because I'm not used to it but a great experience.
I remember as a kid. Early 90s my uncle hooked his stereo to the tv. And i was like my gid youre a genius. And their it began
Same for me too. I saw a neighbor to that to their TV in the 80s and I thought "Omg! You're a genius!" I was hooked since and spent many days at a Radio Shack, or Circuit City to look at A/V equipment.
Hahaha, I feel ya.... have had 2ch stereo hooked to TV in a few setups... with B speakers so there were fronts as well as B speakers at each emd of the couch...
I am currently looking into upgrading a mid-90s Dolby Pro Logic reciever, and a Bose Acoustimass 10 set from that same era.... sooooo much has changed in just the last few years, let alone the last 20.... I think I am going to start with a basic modern 5.1 AVR, then upgrade to a 4K TV, save for a nicer set of 5.1 speakers, and maybe at that point, decide on 7, 9, or 11 channels and Atmos , or just sticking with 5.1 ...
On my budget, I'm not gonna worry about Atmos now. That much is clear.
I have a 7.4.4 Dolby Atmos setup.
I don’t think the height speakers are used enough in movies that support it.
Quality vs quantity. You should not banalize the use of height channels because of the effect they have is generally of surprise.
I completely agree. It has been proven in tryouts and comparison that many movies, while there are things happening spatially above, the sound mix won´t really reflect any of that. AURO´s upscaler is somewhat better using the top channels, but unfortunately the weakest algorithm (Atmos) is the dominant one in the market. Example: ruclips.net/video/_U8SQFUhmtM/видео.html
Wow 7.4.4 setup what subs you have my friend speakers
Thank you boys... a very useful forum tonight to flesh out experiences and understandings...
As we can seem there is still some variation in opinion and theory [not everyone sees one Holy Grail truth in this developing Atmos world],
I held off on updating my receiver for over 16 years until now [it arrives next week; YAMAHA AVENTAGE AV RECEIVER - RXA2080B], but I am still learning that Atmos is no further along than when it made its debut. I agree with the line of thought that "Object" based signals technology should at least have advanced to where we had eliminated the need for a multitude of speakers... and yet here we still are. You gotta upgrade at some point. I pray to god that I will have enough useful power in the NEW Yamaha to flesh out a pleasant ATMOS experience.
Bless you fine and even-tempered gentlemen for making a polite, and educational discussion possible and available.
Too much time gets wasted on dudes that swear at each other and take offense at every little thought / theory we develop.
God Bless, long life. :)
Geo
Gene, I think I follow the point of this video. I have been researching for a long time now, and as a single parent on a budget, it has been overwhelming deciding what direction to go... 5.1, 7.1, 5.1.2, 5.1.4, etc... there are also SOOO many specs, and different pieces to this puzzel to sort out.... I have not been able to decide what to buy, and thus still have the same ancient 90s Pro Logic reciever and Bose Acoustimass 10 speakers .....
My space doesn't really work for 7.1, so I think the emd goal is 5.1.2 or 5.1.4.... but for now, I am going to just get a basic, modern 5.1 AVR .... then over the next year or 2 upgrade to a 4K TV, and then save for much better 5.1 speakers. Once I have the best 5.1 setup that I can do in my space, amd with my budget, I will then look into 2 or 4 more speakers, and a high end AVR that can deliver the chamnels and power to drive an Atmos setup.
For now, I just have to decide which new 5.1 AVR to get. But at leat I have a new perspective that narrows things down to a point where I think I will finally start the upgrade process. We are spending far to much family time watching TV and movies these days to not get more out of the experience tham this Pro Logic, I know things will sound way different even on just 5.1 if it's a modern setup.
Thanks for the channel, if you have any recommendations for decent 5.1 AVR options, please let me know.... hopefully I will habe something picked put amd ordered in the next couple weeks...
Have exactly the same problem, I have not room for 7.1 but have 7 1 avr, planning to use it for 5.1
Then later upgrade to new avr to 5.2.2 or 5.1.2 (with a iotavx avx 17 and 2 new speakers, I have wharfedale bi directional speakers but can probably not use them anywhere)
The Carver Sonic Holograph Generator C-9. I had allot of fun with that device, generating huge sound images with two speakers back in the day.
Ive always been a big Yamaha fan because of their presence speakers that I set up years ago before Atmos.That full spatial effect they give in movies and streaming was a game changer but I never use them for music. Atmos for me has been a non event. Putting speakers on the ceiling in a condo is a daunting task that would cause me nothing but issues.
I have a 5.1.2 (actually 4.1.2)setup with a bit haphazardly placed surrounds. I almost sit right up to the back wall and have the height speakers on a shelf high on the wall fireing forward. And I must say that atmos is still really worth it. Even the upmixing is incredible.
I plan on building a proper cinema room and am really curious on how much better it can get when installed better/correct.
I would choose an atmos 5.1.2 before a regular 7.1.
The sad surround sound truth...
Atmos is designed for movie theaters! were the screen reaches FAR passed the left and right front channels which are positioned behind the screen! (playing Metro Exedus on pc which provides an atmos signal, the sound snaps entirely to the left and right fronts and heights as soon as the object is basically not in the center of the screen!) The combined use of center and fronts are way off and you can't correct it! If your using a media designed for atmos, set your receiver to dts nueral X and experience much more accurate channel transitions. Also their are basically 2 unspoken surround sound level setups particularly for games but also with movies, 1 where sound is perfectly calibrated to sound accurate with perfect channel level calibration, and the other where the media signal has drastically increased rear channel signal, decreased height and front channels and predominant center channel, unfortunately this the far more common sound level scenario!! so basically balanced surround sound with home use is an UNAVOIDABLE shitshow! I've been using and calibrating surround setup levels for 20 years, constantly dealing with the scenario were I want to switch back and forth between 2 games with dramatically different level and EQ setups, it sucks, and their is nothing we can do about this until either the surround sound world gets their act together and gets on the balanced and EQ leveled setup OR our receiver manufacturers give us the ability to switch calibration profiles! (currently using denon x4400h with a 7.3.4 focal setup)
(((Spider-man ps4))), Dirt rally 2.0, and Shadow of the Tomb raider are 3 examples of media with perfectly calibrated levels which match perfectly with our receivers' calibration.
MOST other sources have jacked up rear channels, very low height channels, and very faded front channels and dismal eq shifting... I consider this the "old" standard although the accurate standard has popped its head up here and there for the passed 20 years. totally lame.
The reason why the level EQ disaster exists is because of and old common dedication to 'Stereo'. The sound we most commonly get is designed to be backwards compatible with the original 'Dolby stereo' which simulated surround with 2 channels...hens the the jacked up rear effects, weird fazing EQ and lost height distinction. Also the tv stereo speakers being at roughly the 1/4 and 3/4 marks under the screen.
SOLUTION... Your receiver may have the ability to use usb for a save/load feature, get 2 usb sticks, save the perfect calibration using your receiver's calibration (which takes experimenting to get accurate usually) on to one usb stick. Then find the mid-ballpark calibration for your surround system's counterbalance setup for the somewhat varying inaccurate "post stereo" surround standard, put this calibration profile on the second stick. Then switch as needed...
'Atmos' standardized media WILL have inaccurate front and front height positioning until a design a variation for home setups where front channels are at the sides of the screen is created... You have to set your receiver to 7.1 nueral dts and adjust your front stage levels to be positionally accurate.
Sigh.....
Thanks guys! and thanks for hearing my rant!
oh yeah,
2-channel music- dolby surround upmixer! 👍👍
(wide, deep, in-depth, smooth. Dts-good height use but, flat, too distinct, no depth...)
games/movies- dts nueral X 👍👍
(I get accurate positional sound in games with dts,I look down to my feet in a game and the sound in front of me transitions smoothly to the heights. Not getting any of this with dolby...)
What a fun read thanks for sharing
Well I think you all are right, with how water down atoms can be,but dobly atoms can be wonderful if done correctly. I wanted to come here and share my theater room set up: 1. Persona 7f for loudspeaker
2. Persona center channel
3. Iam using anthem p5 for the front stage
4. For the the four surrounds channel iam using paradigm elite7 I have anthem pva8 amp running my surrounds
5. Iam using paradigm elite3 for the ceiling and the pva8 will be assisting there also.
6. Last but not least I did 4 persona sub 1.
7. So after everything said and done I will 7.4.4 so is this a good system and buy the way my room is 20.5 x 16.5 x 10
And also my pre amp is Avm60
Just installed 7.1 with Denon receiver and love watching movies/Tv even more. Girlfriend said we don't need to go to movie theater anymore!!
Moving house this year, I was set on upgrading from 5.1, buying a Denon and going to 7.2.4..until I watched this. Now I’m wondering on going 7.2, buying a higher end Yamaha and having front n rear presence channels instead. Used to run 7.1 with front presence, till a lightning strike killed my Yammy v675, I just went 5.1 on my backup amp...I miss the set up, and presumed atmos would be the way to go forward. Decisions..! UK viewer, love the vids, even the stuff that goes over my head..pun intended.
Do some research. Atmos is now the default track for 4K discs and new netflix titles. I wouldn't base any decisions on this video. Atmos comes standard in AVRs now. Add 2 height channels. Done.
Trevor M Thanks for the reply. Oh, I’ll probably do it either way, curiosity n all that. It seems 2 or 4 ceiling speakers depends on room size, so I’ll look into that.
This video was terrible. Look if you want to do good Ht then do good HT. Don’t by a Onkuri HTiB and expect magic - not gonna happen. Get a powerful receiver (Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Anthem) get good speakers and get in-ceiling or on wall heights and you will be fine
What's a good size for a home theatre dedicated room for one or two listeners?
I'm curious of what comes next, after Atmos. I remember when I thought 5.1 was a lot of speakers then 7.2 seemed extravagant.
I have two height speakers now and like the open sound of Atmos.
It seems to blend well and sound natural.
Atmos speaker’s to my understanding are just like your surround speaker’s . They enhance and help pull you further into the world on the screen. They don’t have to be monstrous but they do need to be good quality. The front three speakers are your hammers. Everything else is support. I’ve had a lot of success with 6.5” component speakers as surrounds and atmos speakers.
Problem is manufacturers can take the speaker’s out of the boxes and make excellent support speakers but they then feel the need to charge more. They do the same with preamps and amplifier s as well.
People should understand the " balance" say X brand sells a 5.1.2, that's BAD.
The balance is a 5.1.4, hence two top speakers two rear speakers.
Always you want an opposite speaker.
How well would a series of Yamaha HS powered near field monitors work for an Atmos setup or even 5.1?
I have a 7.4.2 in my basement - sounds awesome. Now... I have a 4 channel setup in the living room: 2 front bookshelves and 2 ceiling surrrounds. And sometimes the 4 channel setup feel more immersive than the basement’s... food for thought.
The main problem with Atmos is the lack of good Atmos content (movies and games). In an average Atmos movie it may be only A FEW SECONDS OF DECENT ATMOS experience. I have a 11.1 Atmos system but I don’t think it’s worth it, I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone . It’s better to invest into 5.1 high quality speakers and gear. It would give you much better results for 100% of the content instead of 1% of Atmos.
Atmos is mostly about marketing. Most Atmos movies are mixed in reality in old channel based way for 99% of the duration of the content.
love your videos. keep up great work. I LOVE ATMOS (& DTS:X)! Only way I like seeing movies now is in ATMOS! Been watching you for years (since 2015, when first bought my first ATMOS-DTS:X Yamaha receiver). I hope you all are STAYing HEALTHY!
Great video. It always bothers me when I see videos where they turn off the base layer and they say very little is coming out of the ATMOS height speakers. I blame Dolby because you haven’t clearly explained how object-based sound works. And if you turn off the base layer you are killing ATMOS. I live in Europe and I feel Auto-3D is a more effective immersion technology but for some reason they can’t get a footing in the market. Plus another factor is the mixing. I think the mixers find it hard to mix an ATMOS track than they would say an AURO-3D channel based system.
Seems like all the same complaints about consumers who bought the surroundy round systems in early 2000's. Most people just want to take the time to set up their system properly, and those are the folks who get surveyed and writes Amazon and Best Buy reviews. A bulk of where this stuff is sold, what's a company to do?
James...well Atmos had majorly improved our home theater experience can't wait to taken it to the next level from 7.1.4 to the full 9.1.6 once it's cheap enough.
I'm waiting for 15.6.12 to become eco omically viable for consumers.
I'm not even bothering with an "Atmos" sound bar. I can't afford a $1000 soundbar and don't have the space or money for a multi speaker setup. So I'll just be buying a pair of $200-250 powered bookshelf speakers with a matching similarly priced sub (hopefully able to get both on a sale), hooked up directly to the TV's analogue jack and use the TV's built in virtual surround DSP.
Soundbars duplicate so many facilities that are already on modern TV's, so you're paying for functions you don't need. And the core function, sound delivery, is compromised. And when you think about it, they don't really save space because their footprint on your media cabinet is long and sometimes very deep, with most of it being empty real estate, while speakers being more vertical orientation makes their footprint smaller. And you can't always guarantee that the bar will fit under your TV properly. Unless you're REALLY stuck for space and can't fit a 40inch TV in your room and you definitely need all the music streaming features, you'd be better off avoiding a soundbar.
The issue with Atmos is that it is not practical for most people's living spaces. It might make sense for a dedicated home theatre or an actual movie theatre, but not practical for a NYC apartment or a suburban ranch. Upward firing speakers fall short, and ceiling mounted speakers are not always feasable. An important aspect of any audio system is proper speaker placement. The more speakers there are, the more difficult it becomes to place them where they sound right. This can be an issue with open floor plans where rear walls are far away from the listening area. I have seen situations where, even in a new construction home's living room, space limitations result in front left and right speakers being positioned too close together. I think Atmos is too far-fetched and over reaching. It may find limited success for a dedicated niche high end market, but will be a failure in the mass market.
Most important take home for your viewers is that there is no substitute for quality gear if you want quality results. More crap simply gets you more crappy sound. Building a any sound system requires not only money but deepening our knowledge base.
My front three channels and subs alone retailed for $6,000 three years ago. I of course did not pay retail as they were floor models. I like Atmos at my home, but I love it in a Dolby Theater. Yeah, 32 plus channel and over 10,000 watts make a huge difference.
My Elac Debut 2.0 Atmos speakers work really well. I have a plaster ceiling tho so that means they reflect very well and also means I do not have the choice of "in the ceiling"
I have 5.2 setup with a separate 5 channel amp. Took enough time getting speaker placement right that my wife questioned my sanity. Then ran audessy, set it to flat and tweaked the sub volume. Any more money spent would violate the law of diminishing returns.
Enjoy your channel, keep up the great work.
I would try with and without Audyssey, and with and without Dynamic EQ. For me Audyssey (XT) ruins the soundstage by boosting the surrounds too high. So I had to reset the levels.
Having a 7.1.4 is very enjoyable. 14x24x8 living room. Luckily for me I have an attic above the room and installed 4 ceiling speakers. If you setup correctly it's great. Love watching movies and for me it is worth, especially because my wife enjoyed it as much as I do. Yes it is expensive to do it right, but being my hobby I am will to spend for it. Using dedicated amps is a must. I have a few friends that do the same. If it's your hobby why not, only live once. Also I tried a cheap processor, didn't do well and returned for an avm60. Now I am greatly satisfied.
What was your cheap processor?
This helps me so much make my mind up to take a simpler approach to my own planned audio setup. Greetings from James J in Limerick city Ireland.
My first home theater setup in my first home is the 5.1.4 setup with 4 klipsch rp 8060fa, rp504c and sl115subwoofer. I wanted to spend less than 6k on speakers. I own a denon x4600h and my monolith 7channel amp is on it's way. So far I love dolby atmos and I do hear my height speakers bounce in rain scenes and it fills my entire livingroom with live action sounds. Sounds beautiful like in the movies interstellar, alita and any gun movie films. Dolby atmos in public theaters dont sound like I'm engaged in the film because room is too big. My own home theater setup sounds a lot better than public theaters imo because I'm engaged into cleaner upclose sound in smaller room. I'm new to the home theater game and I'm always open to learn more. What are your thoughts on the klipsch reference premiere 8060fa speakers? Which dolby atmos speakers other than klipsch would you guys recommend for a 5 1.4 setup under 6k?
I saw Dune at an AMC theater with Dolby Cinema, but I didn't really hear much directional audio aside from the demo before the movie started. It was certainly louder.
My Atmos system is 5.1.2 because I have a smaller room. I have a Marantz AV running the system. My problem is, I'm not sure if I have the settings on the AV correctly setup. I'm always telling the system what's the capacity of the DVD.
I really love stereo listening but also want to take advantage of a good surround upmixer for stereo music. Try them all and for me the most natural and close to the original stereo sound is Auro 3d by far. Switching between stereo and auro is almost inaudible in a good sense ; you only get a better stereo imaging and soundstage and a sense of space. DtsX is unusable for stereo and Dolby comes second with the center spread On, although it dumps a little to much content in the surrounds for my taste
get 5.1+ surround music, there are demo from dts dvd/blueray with 5.1/7.1 music in them
I wish Auro3D was more widespread than it is.
Haven't heard an Auro3D setup yet, although i could convert my atmos setup to one. It's just not worth the effort because of lack of content compared to Atmos.
I also find that Atmos mixes can be a hit or miss. Some are brilliant (even subtle ones), but there are also those that are way to forward in the sides or heights.
I wish AVR's had 'group' gain settings for surrounds and heights, so changing something on the fly to my liking would be quicker and easier, instead of changing every channel seperately. Adjusting seperate 'group' amps just doesnt work cause it doesnt take the sub(s) into account.
But i like tech so i'll keep tinkering none the less, although improvements can and should be made more often in the industry. Unfortunately i guess as a sound engineer my list of 'wants' is just not feesable for the consumer market.
ps. If Auro3D somehow would take the world by storm, i'd switch in a heartbeat, not because i'd 'have' to but because all i've seen and read about it looks to me that it's the better format.
MCU 3D blu rays decode into Auro 3D. Some German versions state Auro on the packaging.
So I bought a Onkyo NR676 receiver last year for $230 brand new and hooked it up to my existing 5.1 satellite speaker system and it was a really nice upgrade over my old NR535 for every multi channel source I fed it! AND, then months later I installed the Dolby Atmos app on my Xbox One S and noticed a HUGE upgrade when watching Netflix with Atmos supported shows(especially Taylor Swift's Live Concert) without adding any new speakers! I'm guessing that it's because of the increase in bit rate over the old Dolby Digital + and not because of some magic being done by Atmos processing, but it took me from being a "Atmos is a gimmick" guy to someone who is now a believer.
Umm.... I don’t wanna be one to judge other people’s music taste
BuT
Taylor Swift!!??.... damn 😌
@@demonreturns4336 It actually a really good reference source to hear the difference between using DD+ and Dolby Atmos on Netflix! You don't have to like her music, but she performs with a full band and uses top quality equipment and production, so the sound quality it amazing!
@@TerminatorJuice I'm just teasing you man.... variety is the spice of life! I've gotten sucky movies before JUST because I heard they had good HDR or 4K refernce demo material
@@demonreturns4336 My music library ranges from Taylor Swift to Marilyn Manson(and just about everything in between), and I'm secure enough to say that she is a very talented song writer and performer! And her Live Concert on Netflix is proof of that! So even if you don't think you like her music, I'd still recommend checking it out... Unless you have an issue with amazing legs and talk leather boots, that is! Lol
Just keep hoping for more competition, we need better processing wars to inhibit technology growth.
Does Atmos use a higher bit rate than Dolby True HD or DTS MA? Back in the day going from 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS to 5.1 Dolby True HD and DTS MA was a significant upgrade in my living room with the same speakers... So is there any benefit in regards to the placement of sounds with a Atmos soundtrack with only a 5.1 speaker system vs Dolby True HD?
No same bitrate, no reason to go higher anyway we can't hear it
Everyone puts the sofa against the wall....yet these surround systems require speakers behind the seats to work best. Very frustrating.
Then they wanna say ' no dipoles!". When I bet that might help...
Considering placing my sofa in the middle of floor, requiring I walk around it....or maybe I move it into position for movies?
Jones did do some elite speakers and the regular Pioneers. I wonder what the difference is?
serious question here: i love quality audio but i cant enjoy it as it bothers my wife and kids. I would like to see a video on this situation, I compromise with headphones and would like to know if there is an atmos ready solution, thanks.
only Atmos-certified headphones right now are from Plantronics which is used in conjunction with the Xbox one X and you have to pay a small price for the software to enable it.
You can turn off the center speaker for DTS X up mixer for music. Sounds good.
Up next...DIRTMOS! Speakers in the floor! DRONEMOS! Little speakers flying around, and so on and so on...
Why not dirtmos, underneath wide dispersion speakers, would give auro 3d 4 planes of sound and easy to hide
@@AOmega72 exactly, just mount them to the underside of your couch and wala
Next for me will be, tactile
@@dfalekulo9138 like tactile transducers?
@@victormuriel7266 I've got some tactile underneath but only for lower frequencies for added bass feeling, helps in apartments so you still feel the bass without annoying neighbours. My thought was with an example scene of a deadly roller coaster and the camera angle is from the pov aspect of the to be victim, screams would literally be heard from underneath you. Easier and more feasible to achieve than atmos as anyone can put some speakers under a chair. I think industry spec wise it would have to be a mid to low frequency led speaker as most movie scenes which could make use of that are things like looking at a huge gaping hole from above where the soundtrack is mostly low frequency. Also if high frequency sound waves are more direct which would work badly under a chair. Dolby hire me lol. My examples may not be the best but hope it makes sense
I got the Denon X3600H...9.2 (11.2 processing) for $800 new this week, upgrade from Onkyo TX-NR676.....7.2..($550 3 yrs ago)..the difference is night and day on quality, power, and features. Wow.
I already had 2 atmos speakers in ceiling (polk, $150 for a pair) and a spare pair of polk bookshelves that I added to make it 4 channel with the denon just needed wall mounts
Its phenomenal, and for minimal added expense over 5.1.
You people are smart, but crazy. (Or communicate your point poorly)
I think the major problem with the height speakers lies in their directivity and off axis response. Almost by definition, you are going to get a very different listening window when you put speakers 5 ft above your head. As a result, you are going to be hearing off axis sound, and I don't know of any speaker that are designed to deliver quality sound when listened to 40-60 degrees off axis. The lovely spinorama characteristic which was so painstakingly engineered into those Philharmonic speakers will be utterly unrealizable when you listening window is shifted by 40 degrees vertically. So even if you placed six of them on 8 foot stands to be your height speaker, I doubt they would sound very good, even though they are obviously excellent speakers when placed at ear level. And of course most speakers have far, far worse vertical dispersion then they do horizontal, with the possible exception of coincident drivers like the Kef LS50s which will exacerbate the problem even further.
So just angle the speakers with a bracket?
Also it's probably a waste of money to use big Philharmonic speakers as a height speaker.
Their smallest Philharmonic True Minis are 380 USD per pair and the off axis measurements posted on their site look fine.
Maybe that is still a waste of money and you're better off with some cheaper on wall or in ceiling speakers.
A properly adjusted Atmos is the one that you won't notice when it's enabled but will notice that something is missing when it's disabled.
i use 18 year old technics sb-arc 140 satelite speakers, my technics reciever was broken and i replaced it whit the marantz 8805 ,the MM8077 , MM7025 for front and technics sb-g90 front speakers, the source are a PC digital coax ,XBOX ONE X max of 7 channels, :-( and a 1993 technics cd-player SL-PG340A simple rca out, but i use good quality cables, and 2 yamaha ns-sw300 powered subs, the improvement from marantz on all that old stuff, you would be suprised, i bouth extra sb-arc140 from a guy in netherland for 60€ for 5speakers ,i love the way when i play games on the xbox , but listening to music in stereo it 's .... the extra details the marantz delivers, but i could never believe that the old speakers could handle the sound to, marantz and technics is winning combination ,i dont believe in that expensive super de luxe high end stuff, whit a lot of numbers on the pricetag ,that's troffeeshit to me, it's all about to what YOU want to hear or how it sounds, not how your "neighbour" wants it, greats from BELGIUM
Atmos also has the best most descriptive name. And of course dolby branding.
That helps a ton.
My AVR is Atmos-capable, but so far I've stuck with basic 5.1 in my living room. I think about getting a pair of SVS Elevations as an alternative to ceiling holes/bouncy house but can't quite commit. Upgrading feels good psychologically, but probably not necessary for me. Good discussion, though I took a little issue with Matt's casual mention of $10K for a sound system. . way out of my (and probably most people's) price range.
The biggest issue in the music world, is the logistics are so complicated between DAW's, Renderer apps, etc. It's a clusterfuck to just make the product...
I have an old school Denon AVR 4520CI and i m satisfied with 9.1 surround. I've listened to Dolby Atmos and the improvement in sound doesn't justify the cost in my opinion. I prefer left and right wide speakers compared to the left and right height speakers. Maybe if my Denon bites the dust, but i keep her serviced, covered when not in use and run big but low noise cooling fans. Atmos is a no go for me right now.
So true but sad that so few people can even set up a 5.1 system. Truth is half or more of the consumers can’t even hook up an AVR to their tv. They pay bestbuy $125 to plug it in for them.
Why no Atmos for me?
1) I live in an existing house where running lines in the walls and cutting holes in my ceiling would cost more than my current system. This is before I buy the processor, amplification, speaker and cables required to add them.
2) If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to put that money into improving the quality of my speakers, subwoofers (especially multisub) amplification and processing, not adding on more channels.
3) The popularity of these systems have definitely caused a reduction in the quality of components per dollar. The more licenses a receiver manufacture has to pay the less money there is for componetns
4) Setup time. I already spent hours to get my 5.2 system set up correctly. Do I really want to do this for a 7.2, 9.2 or 11.2 channel system. Nope. I'll spend my money to build 2.0 and 2.1 systems in every room of my house first.
What Matt said at the 18 to 20 min mark really resonated with me. Great video. Thumbs up!
I have friends who have only known bass heavy, head phones, show them the cheapest crap and they love it.
Hey guys, great video, nice insights. Let's get 2.0 right, then 2.2 right, then maybe 5.2 right.
About that, I've been thinking a lot lately about your video "How Many Speakers Do You Need for Good Sound?" and I think you almost convinced me around the idea of moving away from pure stereo reproduction.
But since most source content is stereo, a lot of questions arises around upmixing etc.
Maybe a video on this specific subject could interest your audience (what upmixing codec to use, how to set it up, etc.)?
Awesome video guys. Keep up the good works boys 👍👍👍
You guys mention getting your base speakers first but dont you need to timbre match your atmos speakers? With older speakers dont you run the risk of not being able to get atmos speakers in the same series? I have a 7.1 setup but there very old and discontinued so what option does one have to add atmos to such a setup?
Timbre matching is overkill for Atmos. It is mostly used for ambient noise or panning special effects, positioning matters far more. IMO, one of the best ways to add Atmos is Polk RC80i for $150 a pair. If your receiver can support it, I would encourage using a 5.2.4 before 7.2.2.
I have discontinued kef speakers and had no trouble finding used ones in excellent condition on ebay. I'm not sure about the importance of timber matching but you should be able to find speakers with similar designs that will be close enough.
@@qua7771 I use 2 x 5.1 KEF discontinued older but high quality systems combined together and driven by an Anthem MRX 1140 8K AVR wired to get a 5.2.4 Atmos system :
Base 5 is Fronts=iQ9s
Center=iQ6c
Side surrounds=iQ3
2 SWs= PSW3500 + T-2 (from a T-205 5.1 kit) independantly ARC tuned and combined courtesy of Anthem
4 Atmos speakers at 45⁰ top of ceiling down firing consisting of 2 Horizontal T-301s Fronts and 2 horizontal T-101s Rears (from the same T-205 5.1 kit) I found these have the perfect Atmos qualities: very rugged, thin and small, flat, outstanding dispersion, low distorsion and response.
@@chevalde31 I'm using two PSW3500's as well. My receiver is a Marantz SR-7012. I thought about upgrading, but I don't really have a need to. I'm using KEF eggs for Atmos. They seem fine for the information they carry. (ambience, birds, planes etc...). My bigger concern is room acoustics. I haven't had much time to address that issue. I barely have time to enjoy the system.
Thanks for sharing your set-up.
So i have 7.1 speaker set up purchasing a new amp soon most of my 4k movies are atmos sound so is it ok or wise to keep watching the atmos movies in a 7.1 set up ?
Interesting conversation guys. I haven’t taken the ATMOS plunge since my Marrantz AV8003 isn’t ATMOS capable. I feel that this tech would be more justified in a larger room with high ceilings more than a smaller room. I absolutely agree on getting the core of your system right first before going the ATMOS route.
Presently I’m quite happy with my 5.4 system because it’s very dialled in. The biggest and most important purchase were my front three GedLee speakers, these are the core of the great sound in my room.
Second would be my multi sub setup..if you aren’t using 3-4 subs, then you really should think about buying more subs, and set them up properly.
I will be setting up for ATMOS in the near future because I recently ordered a Marantz SR7013 so I’ll finally get to see what the fuss is all about. When ATMOS first came out, I couldn’t justify taking the plunge( I already hear localized and ambient effects in my room from my walls and ceiling where there is no speakers present so I thought ATMOS was a gimmick when it was launched ). Now that I’m buying a new receiver, I may think about setting my system up for it.
Anyways, I enjoyed the discussion and agree with a lot of the things you said.
Look UP with your dialed in set up do you ever have issues with dialogue?
Dan Kesler Not at all, the waveguides are very clear and precise, and they image like no other speaker that I’ve heard. They are the only speakers that I’ve owned that will easily play to full reference volume levels without hurting my ears. They are great for movie surround tracks and for two channel music. They weren’t cheap, but I’m very glad I bought them.
I also didn’t use any room correction in my room( again, the first speakers I own that didn’t need them ), I just manually setup my distance and speakers levels with a db meter. I also manually setup my subs with a MiniDSP 2x4 by following Earl Geddes’ multi sub setup guidelines. I’ve never been more satisfied with any HT system than I am today. I haven’t felt the ‘upgraditis’ itch for years when before I felt the need to do something every few months. Now I can just enjoy my system rather than want more.
Admittedly though, I have the itch to build some subwoofers and using high efficiency pro drivers, but I’m in no rush. I will eventually do that though because high efficiency speakers are the way to go IMO.
Look UP interesting. We have issues all the time but I only have a Sony ct370 sound bar. I found some benefit with bumping up treble a bit and moving everything to stereo. I’m trying to decide if I want to spend 1400 or so on a nice 3.1 set up so we don’t have to keep riding the volume up and down. Our local audio store recommended paradigm 3000f towers and center and a Denon receiver with the room correction. Then he said we can turn center channel up if needed. We really don’t listen to stuff loud though
Dan Kesler what I always recommend to friends who have heard my system and want a similar sound is to check out the kits at www.diysoundgroup.com are selling( now that Earl quit building and selling his speakers ).
If you don’t mind building and painting, their flatpack kits will be very hard to beat for the money spent. They use high efficiency pro woofers and compression drivers, and their MDF panels are all CNC cut. Just read the reviews on their website, their customers are very happy. A properly setup high-efficiency waveguide speaker is pretty hard to beat. Check them out, they sell them in different sizes ranging from an 8” woofer up to a 15”. I’d get the single woofer kits with a compression driver and waveguide. That will fix any clarity problems you’re currently experiencing. You’d have to spend thousands of dollars on store bought boutique speakers to even come close to the performance from the DIY kits they sell. Hope that helps you some.
Look UP thanks!
I have some Onkyo speakers that I have on top of my front and rear speakers. I have these Onkyo speakers slanted towards the ceiling and am using these speakers as Atmos up-firing speakers. Do you think this is a good idea?
That's how you're supposed to place Atmos enabled speakers but discrete ceiling mounted sound much better and more realistic.
Audioholics yes, that makes sense. I listened to the entire video as well and you make some really good points. I’m just a little worried since I’m basically using a DIY solution instead of using licensed Dolby Atmos up-firing speakers. But it sounds pretty good. Do you have any videos or other content on DIY Atmos speakers? I’d be interested in your thoughts on it.
What if let’s say I have a Denon AVR S750H and Dayton Audio Mk442 as LCRs, and surrounds, and I just want to add 2 Dayton Audio MK402x as elevation speakers aimed at my listening position. All things were set like calibration, EQ, room acoustics, the channels are installed correctly, and calibrated with an SPL. Angled, toed in. Everything. I mean, can I make sound worse by adding those two Atmos elevation speakers?
Here, the worst about Atmos cheap.
5.1.2 instead of 5.1.4 or with whatever number of speakers you add.
You want 2 top front and 2 top back.
Ideally if you add more, should be two or four middle top, always pairs to balance the sound.
Still even in a movie theater, the sweet spot is just one spot.
Are you sure that the atmos movie discs we get are have same mix as what is released in theatres? I doubt it.
If you listen to atmos demo videos, it rocks at my home and I feel the same when I see those demo videos in theatres. However the movies sould unimpressive at home, especially the height channels whereas same movies sound better in theatre
I want to try it out this year
Reality is Dobly is nearly as strengent on qaulity for Atmos as it is for Dolby Vision. Even if you got a top flight system the atmos expereince will vary wildly from movie to movie. More so than how wildly different it is on standard surround 5.1 mixes. Right now if youre using atmos you need to upmix nearly everything including the Atmos movies since many movies hardly use the atmos channels. The setup has guidelines and standards but the mixes have no such standards so you can claim "atmos" on the movie and have one sound come out the channel in a 2 hour movie. Thats the real problem.
Indeed. One or two atmos scene per movie does not justify the heavy investment for me.
Took quite a while to get Atmos working, got working by setting 5.1.2 but missing the 2 high speakers but Dolby digital plus works on my Onkyo VR
Beyond the technical issues and if when it’s done well can it THEORETICALLY be good… cost to POTENTIALLY make system sound good etc…
a big practical issue is, are the studios producing enough good Atmos mixes to make it actually worthwhile?
‘Stop the FOMO’ RUclips channel listened to Mad Max Fury Road and of the 2hr movie, the Atmos speakers were active for total of 12 minutes.. 2 of those minutes were directional.. rest atmospheric, sound track.. so LITERALLY 90% of time the height speakers are silent… and watched several other with mixed results.. but even the best he listened to (John Wick 2) had way more Atmos content and when used was good… but had TONS of scenes that CLEARLY would benefit from Atmos… but nothing… mixed results scenes to scene and even within the scenes..
The potential is undeniable, but from a practical, real world point of view is the cost and complexity worth it given that given that studios seem to cheaping out and investing so little on mixes and so not taking advantage of the potential of Atmos?? 🤔
I agree that sound bars does not provide complete or satisfying experience..I didn't even feel left and right .. stereo experience..I was using sabre35 from Harman..I upgraded to Denon with 5.1.2.. Now I experience 5.1 clearly.. Yet to put Atmos speakers as content itself is limited
What about Hugo? Where the heck is he?
Hugo was reunited with his long lost cousins Hans and Frans. They opened a realtor business to sell commercial agricultural real estate.
@@Audioholics I had never watched this channel before. I was just trolling because in the video you mentioned him.
The fact that you took the time to reply is really something. You have earned a sub. Keep up the good work!
Guys I think you're right. The height FX are minimal, but...... as for now 2023 Apple Music is distributing a lot of Dolby Atmos mixes in Apple Music, and that is where the real improvement is!!! Just give it some more time. You're right about getting the basics right first. You're right about receiver not getting better because all amps need to be their, and they're not sufficient for driving all channels with enough headroom. But... Atmos was the reason I upgraded to 7.1.2 but the reality is the upgrade to 7.1 was far more noticable than the 2 extra height speakers. Speakers in ceiling is just idiot, nobody will do that. I have the Auro 3D setup so height speakers in front above my front speakers in a 30° angle
Yeah and this Apple Atmos is a huge problem, at this moment there are only 3 / 4 good atmos music releases, the rest is garbage.
I like this idea of a 3 mic that could triangulate speaker placement, but lets be realistic and that would be much cheaper just to be able to key in the x y z distances to the listening positions, of each speaker, in an App (or web page). Then the processor would know the physical placement of each speaker. Its just not always possible to follow exactly the dicted placement. And it should not have to be the case for object oriented sound. That’s the whole point of real time mixing.
Is 3.1.2 ever worth doing? I live in an apartment and it's not really practical to have rear surrounds in the living room, it's a small space and we are sitting all the way against the back wall. I currently have a 2.0 set up, and have been thinking about getting a soundbar something like the Samsung q90r or the Sony one that does some sort of digital surround, to have a surround experience. I know the samsung has rear channels, but they are wireless and pretty small and I figured I wouldn't have to use them if it didn't really make a difference. The living room is also our primary music space, which is why we have a 2.0 system now, but 2.0 isn't great for TV or movies, we always seem to lose the dialogue and the effects are always way too loud. So I'm at a crossroads, of either adding a center channel or moving to a soundbar to improve our movie and TV watching. if I kept the current set up and kept upgrading I'd eventually moved to a 3.1.2 which is why I wondered if that was worth it. Any ideas?
Late response but that is my setup in my small living room. I started out with 2 Polk bookshelf speakers then added a subwoofer and later a Polk center channel. All together it sounded great. Last I added 2 Sony Atmos upfiring speakers to get the bouncy off the ceiling sound these guys referred to. I chose the upfiring speakers as I was too lazy to install speakers in the ceiling. If it added anything to my sound experience it's so subtle I can't hear it. Ha. But it's one of those you get what you pay for things. I went easy and cheap.....and didn't gain much.
You make a lot of good points here. Just a quick thought.. Dolby Atmos is based on a room of specific dimensions/acoustics. This is not what you would find in most homes. Another point would be no one room of the same dimensions sound identical to one another. I bring this up for this reason, not all rooms are meant for Atmos, DTS Xor other. I could go into so much more but I won't. Keep fighting the good fight or just base decisions on knowledge and not gues work.
With the lack of good mixing camp. The scene in "for all of mankind" when the soldier on the military base parking lot reunites with his wife and the plane pans ovehead is what atmos should be.
Did you guys get a chance to review the the Focal Sib Evo 5.1.2?