Great video that is straight to the points! Although not studying or working in the UK, but from my current experience in China, I can say it probably works the same way across the globe. There are literally too many PhDs these days that some schools would simply use the number of publications (with certain qualification of course) just to filter the resumes because it is a quantified figure, let alone the interviews and all the troubles afterwards. Even if you get through all of those, then congrats to you because you finally get a chance to be exploited by them, and you absolutely have no bargaining power whatsoever.
Thanks! Fwiw, I don't think working for a university is exploitative across the board, although I do think it's worth thinking hard about whether it's the job for you.
@@AtticPhilosophy You are right. My wording here was a bit of emotional, especially considering the other jobs that suffer more. I was trying to say that very few people have bargaining power in front of the universities when signing contracts. At least that is how it works in China from what I am hearing from my friends, and I will just be facing a tougher environment going ahead lmao
@@googleit4606 Same in the UK I think - universities in effect say, "you're lucky to have a job at all!" In the US, I think it's still usual to negotiate your contract when if you get an offer. At any rate, you might as well ask!
I really wish I could drop computer science and skip straight to a philosophy phd program, it sounds like my dream. I've spent the last 6 years self-studying philosophy, the only reason I'm hesitant to do philosophy at university is because it seems to heavily focus on literature, history and essaywriting, and I'm much more interested in purely formal aspects. Such a shame.
Have you looked at MA-level courses specifically in logic? Amsterdam has a great course, also Bristol: www.bristol.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/2022/arts/ma-logic-philosophy-maths/
I'd be happy getting a PhD (4 years tops bc I don't have that kinda time! Lol) and working at a community college while running my small press. That's what I wanna do for like the next 10 years.
thank you for sharing the information professor, I just graduated from university last year with a philosophy major, and I am still considering if I want to do a master, PhD or not. Since I am an international student in Canada, I plan to get my education in Canada and go back to my country (in Asia) to teach philosophy, Do you have any ideas about the job market in Asia? I guess it is as bad as North America and Europe as well. anyway, thank you so much!
I don’t have much sense of the job market there, apart from a few young philosophers I’ve known who have got philosophy jobs in Asia. There certainly seems to be Asian schools keen to hire western-trained PhD graduates.
I know you said that you can't say without knowing specifics about an individual's circumstances, but if a friend came up to you and said I wanna do a Philosophy PhD, would you acc recommend it?
If they want to get an academic job after, I’d say study in the best place they can, and somewhere with a good track record of placements. If they don’t get in there, but can get in somewhere less good with worse record of placements, I prob wouldn’t recommend right now. If they just want to study for the joy of study, I’d recommend if they can find a great supervisor who wants to work with them.
At the 2 top universities in Belgium, KU Leuven and UGent, there is an unwritten rule that without at least M.Cum laude or S.Cum Laude on your Masters do not even try to do a Phd.
Not sure how that translates to uk but certainly the top PhD programmes have strict entry criteria. For most unis, PhD entry is more relaxed but funding very competitive.
So how important do you think university ranking is for a master's degree? In relation to getting into a top university for a PhD or to get a "starter" teaching job? Haven't found good master's programs or faculty that stands out on my area of interest at the highest ranked universities.
For getting into a top PhD program, it's important but not everything. Every year, MA students from lower-ranked universities begin PhDs at higher-ranked universities. But, other things being equal, you give yourself a higher chance of getting a PhD place at a top uni if you've done well at MA level at a top uni. Basically, a top grade (distinction) and your recommendation are both worth more if they come from a higher-ranked uni.
@@AtticPhilosophy thank you for the reply! Really appreciate the answer. Been on the verge fence on wether to quit my job to move and study at a top university, or keep working my job and do the masters at a national university (they're ok ranked, but not world top)
Good pragmatic thinking and I wouldn't want to quarrel with it as far as its goes, but whatever happened to sheer, persistent, dogged, unignorable interest, that simply demands satisfaction at PhD standard regardless of finding a job in academia? This is why I did my PhD in Philosophy (at Nottingham). Moreover I even turned down the offer of a (temporary) academic lectureship because I didn't want to do it and it would have meant giving up my permanent full-time job - a job I did al the time. (I was given extra time to finish my thesis.) Was it hard work? You bet! But I wouldn't have had it otherwise - and all because of that interest. Of course, I have to admit that it was a very different world. It all goes back several decades. Nonetheless, I find it distressing how little sheer interest seems to play in this discussion. I love the channel, though, especially the videos on non-standard logics, about which I know next to nothing.
Sure, that’s a good reason to do anything, but not why most potential PhD students do or don’t take a PhD. For most, the ~£30k cost of fees has to be more than a hobby! But the main point here was: if you want an academic career out of a PhD, just know the facts first.
@@AtticPhilosophy You are certainly right about the cost. It upsets me nowadays just to think about what it costs to do any level of degree. I was very lucky. I won't say how much my PhD cost me in case it upsets anyone else but it was far, far less expensive than it is now - in real terms. In passing, though, I wouldn't call my interest in doing a PhD in Philosophy a 'hobby'. That makes it sound like stamp-collecting, something which has been, jokingly, reserved for particle physics.Good luck with the channel.
I want to do a phd in philosophy just because I want to contribute towards research but don’t want to get into academia at all….and also like not settle for random jobs after phd but stay in philosophy itself….are there any options like that?
It’s hard to do philosophy research unless you have an academic job, as far as I know, that’s the only way that provides time for research as part of the job.
Yeah that’s a common question. I’d you’re currently studying, ask your tutors for advice. Even if you can, I’d suggest asking yourself if you really want to!
Great video that is straight to the points! Although not studying or working in the UK, but from my current experience in China, I can say it probably works the same way across the globe. There are literally too many PhDs these days that some schools would simply use the number of publications (with certain qualification of course) just to filter the resumes because it is a quantified figure, let alone the interviews and all the troubles afterwards. Even if you get through all of those, then congrats to you because you finally get a chance to be exploited by them, and you absolutely have no bargaining power whatsoever.
Thanks! Fwiw, I don't think working for a university is exploitative across the board, although I do think it's worth thinking hard about whether it's the job for you.
@@AtticPhilosophy You are right. My wording here was a bit of emotional, especially considering the other jobs that suffer more. I was trying to say that very few people have bargaining power in front of the universities when signing contracts. At least that is how it works in China from what I am hearing from my friends, and I will just be facing a tougher environment going ahead lmao
@@googleit4606 Same in the UK I think - universities in effect say, "you're lucky to have a job at all!" In the US, I think it's still usual to negotiate your contract when if you get an offer. At any rate, you might as well ask!
Awesome video, I appreciate putting the difficulty of PhDs into perspective. Really helpful.
Thanks, glad it was helpful!
I really wish I could drop computer science and skip straight to a philosophy phd program, it sounds like my dream. I've spent the last 6 years self-studying philosophy, the only reason I'm hesitant to do philosophy at university is because it seems to heavily focus on literature, history and essaywriting, and I'm much more interested in purely formal aspects. Such a shame.
Have you looked at MA-level courses specifically in logic? Amsterdam has a great course, also Bristol: www.bristol.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/2022/arts/ma-logic-philosophy-maths/
I'd be happy getting a PhD (4 years tops bc I don't have that kinda time! Lol) and working at a community college while running my small press. That's what I wanna do for like the next 10 years.
That sounds a great plan, good luck!
thank you for sharing the information professor, I just graduated from university last year with a philosophy major, and I am still considering if I want to do a master, PhD or not. Since I am an international student in Canada, I plan to get my education in Canada and go back to my country (in Asia) to teach philosophy, Do you have any ideas about the job market in Asia? I guess it is as bad as North America and Europe as well. anyway, thank you so much!
I don’t have much sense of the job market there, apart from a few young philosophers I’ve known who have got philosophy jobs in Asia. There certainly seems to be Asian schools keen to hire western-trained PhD graduates.
@@AtticPhilosophy thank you so much professor！
I know you said that you can't say without knowing specifics about an individual's circumstances, but if a friend came up to you and said I wanna do a Philosophy PhD, would you acc recommend it?
If they want to get an academic job after, I’d say study in the best place they can, and somewhere with a good track record of placements. If they don’t get in there, but can get in somewhere less good with worse record of placements, I prob wouldn’t recommend right now. If they just want to study for the joy of study, I’d recommend if they can find a great supervisor who wants to work with them.
At the 2 top universities in Belgium, KU Leuven and UGent, there is an unwritten rule that without at least M.Cum laude or S.Cum Laude on your Masters do not even try to do a Phd.
Not sure how that translates to uk but certainly the top PhD programmes have strict entry criteria. For most unis, PhD entry is more relaxed but funding very competitive.
acceptance rates at the top US schools are about 1-2% - so if you are not a 4.0 or not an URM then you should forget it
I want a phd because free academic papers, playing with super computers reading philosophy, reading, research, research, reading :)
I know the feeling! It is really good, but just make 100% sure before you commit, especially if you’re after an academic job after.
So how important do you think university ranking is for a master's degree? In relation to getting into a top university for a PhD or to get a "starter" teaching job?
Haven't found good master's programs or faculty that stands out on my area of interest at the highest ranked universities.
For getting into a top PhD program, it's important but not everything. Every year, MA students from lower-ranked universities begin PhDs at higher-ranked universities. But, other things being equal, you give yourself a higher chance of getting a PhD place at a top uni if you've done well at MA level at a top uni. Basically, a top grade (distinction) and your recommendation are both worth more if they come from a higher-ranked uni.
@@AtticPhilosophy thank you for the reply! Really appreciate the answer. Been on the verge fence on wether to quit my job to move and study at a top university, or keep working my job and do the masters at a national university (they're ok ranked, but not world top)
Good pragmatic thinking and I wouldn't want to quarrel with it as far as its goes, but whatever happened to sheer, persistent, dogged, unignorable interest, that simply demands satisfaction at PhD standard regardless of finding a job in academia? This is why I did my PhD in Philosophy (at Nottingham). Moreover I even turned down the offer of a (temporary) academic lectureship because I didn't want to do it and it would have meant giving up my permanent full-time job - a job I did al the time. (I was given extra time to finish my thesis.) Was it hard work? You bet! But I wouldn't have had it otherwise - and all because of that interest. Of course, I have to admit that it was a very different world. It all goes back several decades. Nonetheless, I find it distressing how little sheer interest seems to play in this discussion.
I love the channel, though, especially the videos on non-standard logics, about which I know next to nothing.
Sure, that’s a good reason to do anything, but not why most potential PhD students do or don’t take a PhD. For most, the ~£30k cost of fees has to be more than a hobby! But the main point here was: if you want an academic career out of a PhD, just know the facts first.
@@AtticPhilosophy You are certainly right about the cost. It upsets me nowadays just to think about what it costs to do any level of degree. I was very lucky. I won't say how much my PhD cost me in case it upsets anyone else but it was far, far less expensive than it is now - in real terms. In passing, though, I wouldn't call my interest in doing a PhD in Philosophy a 'hobby'. That makes it sound like stamp-collecting, something which has been, jokingly, reserved for particle physics.Good luck with the channel.
What was your PhD on? I'd love to see a video like that!
Good question! I’ll do a vid on this soon
I want to do a phd in philosophy just because I want to contribute towards research but don’t want to get into academia at all….and also like not settle for random jobs after phd but stay in philosophy itself….are there any options like that?
It’s hard to do philosophy research unless you have an academic job, as far as I know, that’s the only way that provides time for research as part of the job.
I love ur videos😍
Thanks!
Lots of Very Philosophical Restaurant Employees out here. Doesn't matter.
Short answer: hell no.
Haha! I guess it depends, but for some cases, that’s definitely the right answer!
Lost me at first answer. You search philosophy for meaning. Not a job.
Depends … if you want to work full-time on philosophy & you’re not super-rich, you need a philosophy job.
Sometimes the question is not "should I do Ph.D?", but "can I do Ph.D?" 🥲
Yeah that’s a common question. I’d you’re currently studying, ask your tutors for advice. Even if you can, I’d suggest asking yourself if you really want to!