Well after i fully treatment my room (as possible) I had issue with frequency around 140-150 hz . With sonaworks it completly make my sound flat and was hearing for the first time a warm and powerful bass. Also comparing my previous mixes, now i have waaay better especially in my low ends.
I’ve managed to get our control room pretty neutral and good sounding over the years. I bought ref 4 just after it was released and it gave me the last 15 percent. Brilliant software.
This video ended up convincing me to get the product and it worked really well! I had just treated my room with foam but I noticed even more of a difference after running this software. It really does make an audible difference and smoothed out my bass.
The more of your videos I see the more impressed I am. This was a great, honest review of a product taken through it's paces. The video was kept simple and easy for me to understand and learn from. Very well done, thank you for taking the time to make this and other videos!
I've just installed the latest version (4.2.1.7). What you say about the all important calibration procedures is correct. It is most important to keep the mic as close to consistently at ear level as possible. Excellent video, and we all appreciate the hard work...especially the music comparisons (SW on/off.)
This package changed everything for me. My kick drums are audible now and present which after much room treatment and building bass traps and all that, I just couldn’t get right. Amazing software. HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT
I very like how this software affects on my headphones. I have a pretty bright headphones and they have a little dip in a middle. So I made them sound warmer on less harsher.
Great review, been using since version 3. Two things... I'm sure they may have been mentioned already, you can (and should) use a stand, you just need a suitable clip and a sturdy stand with a good boom arm, far less straining on your arm and probably quicker. Second thing, not sure if you were pointing the mic straight ahead during all your measurements, the idea is (and shows in the software) to point the mic at the centre of your speakers, the mic get's a better idea of room reflections from each speaker that way - crazy spooky science stuff but it really does work. The software picked up a 0.6dB difference in my speakers outputs too (both run at full volume), a pretty well known producer mentioned to me 6 months before I got sonarworks that he notcied my guitars leaned a little in certain mixes, I would never have guessed it was a volume difference in speakers. Haven't upgraded to 4 yet but the zero latency is tempting. I use full linear mode for mixing, it's a cpu hog but so worth it. Subbed and bell'd, good channel!
A couple tips about SonarWorks Reference: - YES, you can use a stand. Do it! - While measuring, put a webcam or any camera connected to your computer in between your speakers. Then, look at the screen whenever you move your microphone to make sure is directly pointing to the camera.
We do recommend you point it directly at the centre as shown within the Measure app although, with it being omnidirectional, it is not entirely necessary. We do show the best practice case as per our own research though and this brings me to the other point - using a stand. We show to use your arm outstretched and is the reason why we don't ship with a mic clip. When you sit at your desk, you slouch back, sit forward, and learn to the sides. When doing this, your ears are never at the same height. We take all this into consideration and worked very hard in our algorithm to calculate all of this. By using your hand, you are making the measurements far more natural as in a real-case situation.
@@SoundIDCreators Can you make up your mind, please? 🙏 On your website "For the most precise results we suggest using a microphone stand during the measurement process." sonarworks.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203392191-How-do-I-hold-the-microphone-during-measurements- So, What is your final position on that matter?
Well done review. I've been using Sonarworks Ref. 3, then Ref. 4, for about 2 years. When combined with some acoustic treatment, it works very well. I have also been using IK Multimedia ARC 2.0, then ARC2.5, for around 3 years. It is also very effective for room correction when combined with physical treatment. For some reason, I prefer using the Sonarworks Reference. I guess it sounds better (?). Smaller rooms almost always need correction. It is expensive to properly correct a room with just acoustic treatment. These correction plugins can help get more accurate monitoring without killing one's budget. And room treatment/correction works great for home theater and listening rooms. And good quality physical acoustic treatment never breaks, or blows a fuse, or becomes obsolete.
Thanks for all the great videos! Been using sonarworks for years, it's been helping me loads. I usually measure with a mic stand and I always do a couple of measurments and try them out and choose the one I like the most.
I have a stand up desk and a drafting chair... I tested it and found that MY body wants to switch(stand/sit) about every 17 minutes. DO NOT sit down for long periods of time. That’s a recipe for bad health, heart issues and general lethargic life. Just a positive thought for us sound guys.
Agreed...I work as an indie translator and spend lots of time sitting in front of my PC for audio purposes...result: infarct at only 42...nothing more to say. Take care of yourselves ladies and gents
I`m using Reference 4 in an acoustic not optimal "livingroom" studio and it helped me a lot reducing room influance. Everything sounds more honest and more relaxed to my ears. For me it makes a big different! THX for your nice videos by the way ;-)
@@JohnAmaro_Official Got it running since a year and my mixes do translate a whole lot better than before. I thought it to be a better and quick sollution than room treatment, cause i probably wouldn't get that perfect.
I would use this to supplement decent room treatment. If you have heavy nodes and slap back echo all over the place, this is just gonna put lipstick on it. At least take care of your first reflection points and bass trap where and if you can.
@UCfvBS6yZdp96lTOC2LjVnWQ - Agreed. The Reference 4 plugin combined with physical room treatment are a great way to get more accurate monitoring in smaller rooms without killing one's budget.
Great video and great software! It took my K&H O300Ds to the next level. It will not replace your room treatment so if your room isn't treated properly, do not waste your money. I wanted to add that Sonarworks Reference 4 software also calibrates selected headphones and I could not believe how much it improved my already great Audeze LCD-X ! This software is more important than any of your studio gear combined. You can mix using just stock plugins if you have accurate monitoring, but if you're monitoring is lying to you, even the most expensive outboard gear won't help much.
Just installed the headphones edition and it took some time to get used to the "new" sound of my beyerdynamic's, but after 2 hrs i can't go back. Great review, great Software!
Been using Sonarworks for over a year now. For sure it won't fix a bad room, but it does helps greatly in correcting your speakers response and at least for me it totally removed the need to go check my work on other speakers or my car. Now i know i can trust what my ears are hearing.
Just curious, is your room bad and yet it has still helped? I have a bad room and am trying to figure out if this product is worth the investment for that scenario. I understand it won’t fix the room I’m just looking for alternatives to acoustic treatment as I am renting.
Another think I wanted to throw in is that if you already did some corrections to your room but you're not sure if it's enough, the measurement can reveal where there's still larger problems in your room treatment.
Thank you for your very interesting review - this got me trying the software myself. I am a hobby musician but I am a professional audio engineer and loudspeaker designer. My room is acoustically treated and my loudspeakers are DIY DSP solution which I know inside out. In my room I was able to get repeatable results between measurements and started to wonder why you did not. After a bit of thinking I think I know one reason to it - the microphone. You see, the mic used may be (your signal chain's) by far the weakest link. I would not be surprised if your cables would cost more than the mic! Based on calibration file it is far from linear, I would not be surprised if the polar pattern would not be a perfect omni and there would be more non-linearities in amplitude response. Despite of this, each and every signal in your studio is affected by the performance of this microphone. Myself, I used trial license, I took higher grade measurement mic (Isemcon emx-7150) from work and applied its calibration file to get everything ruler flat. I would recommend everyone mixing professionally with high-budget setup, to upgrade their microphone to a Class-1 measurement microphone. This doubles the investment but if you have already spent thousands of euros on your mixing rig, it makes sense. So IMHO this software IS snake oil, if the studio setup is already on same quality level with yours is AND you use 45 Euro microphone for the measurements. Others with less perfect studio setups, this software makes them better. And with mic upgrade, even better! However I see a lost opportunity here, as same measurement could be used to analyze reverberation time, standing waves, reasons behind the nonlinearities etc. I had a strange dip on my Right-speaker measurements that got me baffled, I am sure I'll haul ALL my measurement gear home some day, to analyze it. This software should tell it's opinion on room acoustics, not just squeeze everything to flat by using EQ. Sonarworks could make a nice pile of money through a partnership with a acoustic treatment gear -company, WHILE helping their clients to get a better studio and better mixes.
I love Sonarworks! I have a rather untreated room, but with good dimensions and perfect symmetry. The speakers have enough room from the walls, but listening at louder volumes always use to create issues for me. After calibrating my Yamaha HS80M and HEDD Type 05 monitors, the bass sounded so much tighter and well defined, the mids a lot clearer, as the room reflection overaccentuated them. For my Beyerdynamic DT-770 & DT-990's Sonarworks works brilliant too. I dialed the Dry/Wet down to 75%, since the headphone profiles are calibrated to about 3dB, so not exactly accurate. It's the perfect balance for me, but if your headphones are closer to their references your mileage may vary.
Absolutely agree. This is one of the best plugins I own. Everything translates from monitors to earbuds to iphone. It is "My Truth". It's a really good place to start.
Great video! That 37- time-shifting looks funny as hell :D I received mine this afternoon and run a measurement for my home studio. I must say my system did sound much better. Of course the acoustic treatment will never make a room "perfect". But with this product you can surely put your room further to a good sounding studio, in reasonable cost. I can't imagine how much effort i need to make my speakers sound balanced in an asymmetrical apartment. Also, in my case, there is a bump in my system at some 110Hz and it bothering me for a couple months. Now I feel saved. ps. agree with you that zero latency mode sounds more natural than linear phase mode.
Man! I can see you are from Holland! You’ve got a pair of Philips MFB 587 black edition. I think that probably 98% of the people here don’t know what I’m talking about. Great choice! Because of that....SUBSCRIBED! I trust people who understand what those speakers are capable of! Impressed that a young guy appreciates the MFB speakers. Got a pair of 545 studio here as well as the 587,585,541,544
Thanks for the great video. Your remark about the preamp calibration seems very valid to me. In fact, on the Sonarworks website someone asked that last year (maybe after seeing your video :-) ) but so far no one seemed to have noticed that question (or at least no one responded) and I wonder if their R&D is currently working their way through that. Anyways, great review on a very interesting product. Cheers! Erwin
one thing i mightve missed but want to add anyways: the effect is a lot more noticable on bad speakers/headphones (because they have more flaws that need correction) and it handles those about as well as good headphones/speakers
I like the software mine was quite a pain to set up though I did it eventually. I did know about keeping the mic at exactly the same location is key to precise measurements . I read recently about if the speakers are too close to the wall you may need to adjust the bass response at the back of the speakers but now its not necessary because the software works around this but if you adjust afterwards you would need to remeasure again.
What they should do is allow you to take 100 measurements (of ones that you felt you did accurately) and then average them out so that its consistently within the average of all of your measuements, assume that the majority of your measurements were "more accurate than not accurate" ones. The stand would help. Also, when taking the measurements, you hold it within a small sphere that is considered acceptable. They could reduce the diameter of the acceptable sphere and make it more closely set to a specific point in space. Getting the mic placed exactly at a point would be impossible but smaller spheres would help (and like you said, the stand). I did notice that my entire room sounded more balanced, after doing it once (no matter where I stood, in the room... so its nice for "jam room studio sessions," as well. It does sound the most balanced, if I keep my ears in one spot (which also is difficult to do, even though the spot I picked is where I am most comfortable). The main issue is that we need to move around and be in different positions during our work day, if we want to avoid back pain. But, like I said, it does sound more balanced, no matter where my ears are. There is a possibility that it is my ears tricking my brain, or my expectations causing an "audio libido effect," but I think that is mostly not the case.
The way to make the sweet spot wider is by pushing your speakers further back in the room away from you and farther apart. (Hard if you're room size is limited IK).
really cool review. it definitely changed your monitoring, and your room didn't look that bad in the first place. i can only imagine what an untreated room would test like. i am surprised however that many commentors are using this or similar software without any room treatments up. I wouldn't try to replace acoustic treatment with monitoring software. that sounds like a bad idea. glad yall posted your results from using it in untreated mix rooms, as it does give a better idea of the product though. thanks! i'd probably try it with a stand. only because they give the directions in 2-d, so i assume they only want me to move the mic in 2-d. thank you for showing how your reading changed from measurement to measurement, and for the nicely in-depth review in general. this was very helpful and very well done. putting up their price page was very helpful too!
4 года назад
Thanks so much! Love this review, watched it all. I will definitely get it so im starting up saving! Thanks i can see all the effort you made
They shouldn’t “sound” at all if done correctly. The underlying math is no secret at all and is used in similar ways for modelling and convolution reverb. I don’t know how far these 2 products go, but judging from the test sounds (Sinus sweep, impulse) it could possibly correct also in the time domain (phase correction for the speaker cones, mode competition, reflection timing). IMHO even consumers and even Stereo-only listener should do some compensation in the physical world (damping too many hard surfaces) and electronically (software or DSP).
@@Andyw1228 I sent Sonarworks a bunch of questions before upgrading to System from Headphone edition. They confirmed that they do NOT do phase compensation, only frequency compensation. I did not expect their compensation would do a very good job unless it was dealing with frequency and phase (since of course room modes and associated nulls are the result of phase cancellation in the listening position). However, I was surprised at how well it actually helped the sound in my listening position. Not perfect, but better than I had (even with my heavily treated room). My impression from the IK website is that ARC does do some form of phase compensation as well as frequency... however, many people here seem to like the sound of Sonarworks better. I have not tried ARC.
You surely know how to record and also have the right gear for that, for few seconds I thought that was the line signal recorded directly. Nice review also. And an honest too. Best regards.
So, now for the big question: After room correcting 2 different sets of speakers, can you still hear a difference between them ? Of course, frequency response is only one part of the whole listening experience, but it would be interesting to get a direct comparison of how much of a factor it really is.
The lack of preamp color consideration was my first question as to why they didn't provide a preamp with a known profile. Granted that the low end was full without hollow place like before. Really gave the track a much better bed for everything to sit upon.
Any preamp that isn't flat enough to handle this belongs in the trash. I use Sonarworks with a Scarlett 2i2. I've built my own sub with deeply extended bass (at the expense of ear-splitting level, which I don't want), and sonarworks just ends up with a straight line from 20 to 20k.
Hopefully I can get your opinion on this. (Great video BTW!) I think after using Sonarworks a few times I can think of a couple of flaws in the concept. 1. SPEAKERS - most professional monitors are designed to have bumps and valleys in their sound, it's what makes people like mixing on them. The reference 4 software is great but it's measuring the sound of a CERTAIN set of speakers in your room and showing you the curve they send out. I think what you really want is to see the curve of your room without the coloration of your speakers added to the equation. If a Yamaha NS-10 has a huge bump say, at 1.5 Khz, it was designed like that and people like to check on NS-10s perhaps to make sure their mix isn't harsh in those areas. If it was harsh, the NS-10s would tell you and you'd mellow them out a bit. But if Sonarworks levels out the curve of everything you're hearing, it would flatten out that intentional 1.5 kHz bump as well right? Along with any other inherent boosts and cuts designed into the speaker. Because of this, I would say making your room treatment flat is great; you get to hear your NS-10s (or whatever) in a flat room that doesn't add room coloration. Whereas Sonarworks doesn't compensate for the speakers being used. Perhaps they could look into either having a speaker that they design that has a completely flat calibrated response so it didn't colour the measurement and you could purchase it and use them to omit the test tones. Or, perhaps they could have a list of pro audio monitors to choose from and then apply an additional curve (the curve of those monitors) to bring back the sound of the speakers into the equation. The best might be an advanced section where the software could first measure the frequencies of the speaker at close range or something. I assume when using SW with headphones, it DOES adjust the curve according to the particular headset you're using but NOT the room. This brings me to number 2. Speakers and listening environments out in the real world are anything but flat. Listening speakers are designed with hype in certain frequencies for a more pleasing sound and people's room acoustics are all over the place, not flat or consistent. If mixing on flat speakers was the best way to go, all studio monitors would be designed completely flat and that would only be good if all listening speakers were completely flat. I think monitors are meant to be coloured and engineers get used to what those monitors do, so out in the real world their stuff will translate in different environments. Having said all this, I think SW can be improved but I also think it has uses in it's current form. Bottom line: I wouldn't use it exclusively and real room treatment is much more important. Longest post ever! Sorry! but someone might have a good argument for me or consider all this when using Sonarworks.
Very good review Sir. I agree with your opinion that placing the mic on a stand will likely get more accurate measurements. Also, the results are not "perfect", but nothing really is. Your room was much better acoustically than mine, the curves on my measurements were DRASTIC. The improvement on the sound of my system were also MUCH more noticeable, but I want to commend you on the job you did showing the DIFFERENCE in the sound of your system. You were correct when you said no one can hear how good your system sounds unless they are in your room, but you clearly demonstrated the difference the software made on your system. Your video has reaffirmed my opinion that I need to treat my room then recalibrate my Reference 4 measurements to take my system to the next level of sound accuracy. Thanks again for all the work, excellent video.
Dude, use a *mic stand* for measuring. Kilohertz range frequencies have _very_ small runtime differences, and keeping the mic at _exactly_ the same location is *key* to precise measurements! I bought the headphones edition of this for my Sony MDR-7506 headphones, and... I am not using it any more. I don't listen to my music completely flat, as many systems do not even offer that option (even on "flat" settings, most systems will have a significant bass boost, and even really well-designed systems like Yamaha receivers adjust the bass and treble response below 0 dB, and I rarely crank it up over -12dB), and I have found that cross-referencing my mixes on _different_ systems (headphones, car stereo, home theater, even laptop speakers) gives me a far more reliable feedback on how my music will sound on different end-consumer systems.
Ha, I bought it, and when it arrived there was only the software activation key in the box - no mic. So, right now, I'm still awating a bloody response from DV247/Music Store, who have proved very silent since taking my money. Once this issue has been sorted, I can put it to the test, but with your review and reviews on a couple of other channels, I'm glad to say, everything looks positive
I’d love for you to review IK miltimedia’s ARC correction as well to see if there is a big difference between it and thia one. The IK version is much less expensive.
I had the ik one before getting sonarworks. It's an entirely different league! Sonarworks is so much easier to calibrate, and sounds much more transparent and natural. To me, a no brainer. Also, the irritation finding out I had to pay ik a transfer of license fee to sell it....
Another interesting point is that if you use tonal balance control or something that analyzes signal in order to suggest better frequency choices, it would probably be wise to put this after them as they are essentially eq'ing the signal.
When you treated your room after this tool is the best to go to the last %. Tip for clean measure use a roller stativ what holds in Z direction Earposition and you get same curves for calibrate! Best on this measure is that the left and right speaker is calibrate so smaller unsymetrical room behavior is flated out. My sweetspot grow to a area of 50cm with a perfect stero basis. So from my side Top Product and every cent is for your ears!
Good review! One comment re: mic preamp coloration- Any mic preamp of reasonable quality should have far smaller deviations in frequency response than the response of the room at any given point. Averaging the response of the measurement locations for the final eq settings should make the tenths of a decibel differences between decent mic preamps unnoticeable. Most mic preamp coloration is due to various distortion and phase artifacts. I wish Sonarworks would offer more information about the acoustics of the room. A waterfall plot to show ringing and time domain anomalies would help studio owners learn where other acoustic problems are coming from. A room that measures flat from a frequency perspective can still have huge issues with different frequencies decaying at different rates. Low frequencies can continue to bounce around inside a room many times as long as high frequencies if the room is not sufficiently bass trapped.
Thanks for the video. I had luck to try very early experimental versions of this software and at that time it was designed to have a loopback cable, which allowed to achieve more accurate latency & distance measurements. I saw your speaker distance measurement yield 20cm inaccuracy, while in the early versions with the loopback cable and a crappy cheap computer microphone, if I remember correctly, the measurement error was never greater than 5 - 10cm. I guess they decided to get rid of the loopback cable thus sacrificing the latency measurement accuracy (and more advanced features, e.g. preamp coloration measurement, as you mentioned) for simplicity of use. Also, when you manually enter the real distance between your speakers, the software can use the difference between your entry and its measurement as a correction value for later latency measurements, so that is a clever workaround to get rid of that loopback cable for latency & positioning measurements.
I've been using room eq for more than 10 years. I have some comments to add. Firstly thanks for the review! Very enjoyable video. Can you show us the correction curve being applied? I'm really curious how much they are doing in the mid and top. Linear phase filters should not be used for room mode correction because room modes are not linear phase! They are mainly minimum phase ('normal' filter style). Speakers should be measured together where the wavelengths are large enough to combine/interfere. Say at 100Hz the two speakers act to alter the polar pattern compared to one speaker. Also we don't have directional hearing down low. At short wavelengths/ higher frequencies you want to measure separately because our hearing is highly directional. Pre amps do not add much coloration nor frequency deviation (filters dissabled) if they are reasonable solid state designs. E.g. most audio interfaces built in. Only some fancy valve / tube thing might cause problems. Anything from Edirol, M-audio, Emu etc will be flat as a pancake.
Assuming the result really is as flat as the software shows, the correction curve should just be the pre-correction frequency response curve flipped upside down. As I'm sure it's not as flat as shown, I'd like to see the actual curve added, too.
@@iliilili310 It's not as flat indeed. Using RoomEQWizard you can see a lot of bumps still but still, it's so flat that compared to uncorrected it shouldn't even matter. So it's somewhat recommended.
Excellent video! Easy to follow, even for a novice. English is not my natural language, but your explanation is so clear that I understood just everything you said (at least I think so :-))
Definitely a big improvement in my room. Only problem is the low output volume on the Systemwide app. Can't use it on headphones directly from my laptop, volume is too low to hear properly and raising it clips the app. Otherwise a great product. Really improves imaging and separation of the instruments.
Thanks for the review , I have the software , I don't think My room is perfect after the calibration but it sure sound better more organize like you said , the center is more there, it is like upgrading to speakers with better imaging and closer to flat ( but not perfect of course ).
I have this and love it but also noticed that the calibrations can vary a lot. Always in the same rough area but obviously not totally precise. I reckon it's worth doing a few calibrations of the same room and then switching between them as you mix so you can work towards something that translates well across them all, working to a kind of average.
This is a good stuff. I don't create music, however I like to listen a lot. My goal was to achieve a best sound for a lowest price. To people who want to improve their setup - DRC can be done by free software, only one thing you need is measurement microphone and knowledge. As he mentioned DRC is not flawless. The major disadvantage is one sweet spot, because frequency response is not consistent in different spots.
That's always gonna happen no matter what. Calibrated or uncalibrated. Yoi move? The sound changes.. I guess this could possibly create a lopsode scenario though. The only way around it would be to put a tracking device on each ear and have the system calibrate in real time for each position... The Calibration process might be a pain.. The tracking device could even have its own mics built in lol and be Bluetooth. Maybe a helmet with holes for one's ears haha. ... Or wear headphones. Even treated rooms are optimized for certain listening positions... So os simple speaker placement.
I think you are spot on about the pre's, there should be a line level analyzing stage at the beginning. And that is why they sent it to you! I think you were lucky to get this sent to you, it's about $500 in Canada after our wonderful 13% tax that evapourates after you pay it. Still, well worth the money considering, and since I have studied acoustics for longer than I will admit to (age denial) I could test any room design to be sure I did everything right to get that .6 sec live room reverb and the .4 second recording room reverb and total lack of standing waves. Then the monitors would be the only problem, and this will eliminate that! This is the video that got met o sub, so thank you!
Thx for this review! U were right. They to fix the problem how to get the mic at the same high as your ears. Cuz for me it’s the sweet spot! Thumps up!
Miracles starts with a home room. For me Reference 4 tool from the Heaven because it can remove muddy from low midrange and balance the stereo width also. My mixes starts sound just better. Definately snake oil in the home mixing!)
Late comment I know but: this program worked great at first and then after updates really borked my system. They then came out with a new version and I just feel like I don’t like being forced to upgrade to make something functional. I switched to the slate digital headphones and had better luck there (note: I only ever used this software for headphones) But, I did find the different eq options very interesting. This is actually what convinced me that I genuinely prefer non-linear phase eq most of the time. It made me realize how much the preringing can really change the sounds. The non-linear phase eq sounded better always (or the blended one). This was a real eye opener and I’ve avoided using linear phase eq unless necessary ever since and my mixes got better! So there’s something good that came of this software even if it crashed and burned on me later after updates.
Yes, you can use a stand when making measurements. Everybody is going to point that one out lol. I'd be interested to shoot the room with REW, run SonarWorks, then reshoot with REW again. That'll probably give you a more accurate assessment due to REW calibrating both mic and preamp.
Interesting to hear how the differences in left / right output of the speakers without correction give a false sense of stereo width ! It was especially apparent in the acoustic guitar track . That would obviously make one's mixes narrower or the stereo field less predictable when translating to the end listener's system.
I use Sonarworks headphone edition inserted post Waves Abbey Road Studio 3 which I'm not sure whether you've reviewed or not. I'll check but if not please do one. Killer combination that translates extremely well. I've never enjoyed mixing through headphones (DT770) as much as I do now.
@3:16 I do the opposite but equal adjustment. I leave my monitors as-is but listen to lots of program material to have my brain and ears adjust to what is bassy and what is bright. While initially it may not be how I like to feel the mix, I'll soon adapt to the relativity of the speakers and change my baseline preferences.
Bought it this summer after reading about it and wondering about the 'snake oil' aspect for a long time. Scores of positive (professional) reviews convinced me to give it and try and voila - my monitors sound SOOOO much better than ever before. KRK 7000B's with a $1500 Conrad Johnson stereo MOSFET amp, RME Fireface 800 interface and a small sub from Monitor Audio. Tested with and without the sub running and made two profiles that I can easily switch between depending on whether I'm just listening to the monitors or using the sub to extend the bottom end. My room is treated thoroughly with GIK products per (free) their advice regarding which products to use and where to place, and THAT was a big improvement (especially in the low end) too. Sonarworks Reference 4 was the proverbial icing on the cake. I am very happy with it (in the headphones too) and would recommend to anyone. But as you pointed out, there is no fix for standing waves except to treat the room and kill them, so don't just rely on this software. Treat the low end with bass traps and kill the early reflections from the ceiling and side walls to your listening position and THEN implement Sonorworks. The best of everything!
REW measures the input and output frequency responses of the interface. It's a serious piece of software for measurement but this is much faster and it has a built in eq so...
This is by far your best review. You actually read the manual, did some research and didn't rush through the process. Well done!
Well after i fully treatment my room (as possible) I had issue with frequency around 140-150 hz .
With sonaworks it completly make my sound flat and was hearing for the first time a warm and powerful bass.
Also comparing my previous mixes, now i have waaay better especially in my low ends.
I love what Sonarworks has done for my studio, hands down the best thing ever, supper easy to set up and it really works!
You make really good content. Even the little edits that you do keep me listening.
I’ve managed to get our control room pretty neutral and good sounding over the years. I bought ref 4 just after it was released and it gave me the last 15 percent. Brilliant software.
This video ended up convincing me to get the product and it worked really well! I had just treated my room with foam but I noticed even more of a difference after running this software. It really does make an audible difference and smoothed out my bass.
The more of your videos I see the more impressed I am. This was a great, honest review of a product taken through it's paces. The video was kept simple and easy for me to understand and learn from. Very well done, thank you for taking the time to make this and other videos!
I used a mic-stand to keep the heights consistent
Steven Wilson looks young in this video! :o
I've just installed the latest version (4.2.1.7). What you say about the all important calibration procedures is correct. It is most important to keep the mic as close to consistently at ear level as possible. Excellent video, and we all appreciate the hard work...especially the music comparisons (SW on/off.)
I just got the software and mic setup and am pleased to see your thorough and positive review. Thank you for making the video.
This package changed everything for me. My kick drums are audible now and present which after much room treatment and building bass traps and all that, I just couldn’t get right. Amazing software. HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT
That demo is legit. Bought Reference 4 today, so excited to use it soon!
I very like how this software affects on my headphones. I have a pretty bright headphones and they have a little dip in a middle. So I made them sound warmer on less harsher.
Great review, been using since version 3. Two things... I'm sure they may have been mentioned already, you can (and should) use a stand, you just need a suitable clip and a sturdy stand with a good boom arm, far less straining on your arm and probably quicker.
Second thing, not sure if you were pointing the mic straight ahead during all your measurements, the idea is (and shows in the software) to point the mic at the centre of your speakers, the mic get's a better idea of room reflections from each speaker that way - crazy spooky science stuff but it really does work.
The software picked up a 0.6dB difference in my speakers outputs too (both run at full volume), a pretty well known producer mentioned to me 6 months before I got sonarworks that he notcied my guitars leaned a little in certain mixes, I would never have guessed it was a volume difference in speakers.
Haven't upgraded to 4 yet but the zero latency is tempting. I use full linear mode for mixing, it's a cpu hog but so worth it. Subbed and bell'd, good channel!
A couple tips about SonarWorks Reference:
- YES, you can use a stand. Do it!
- While measuring, put a webcam or any camera connected to your computer in between your speakers. Then, look at the screen whenever you move your microphone to make sure is directly pointing to the camera.
Hjmm, thats a good one... you don’t really have to point since its a real onnidirectional microphone :-)
We do recommend you point it directly at the centre as shown within the Measure app although, with it being omnidirectional, it is not entirely necessary. We do show the best practice case as per our own research though and this brings me to the other point - using a stand. We show to use your arm outstretched and is the reason why we don't ship with a mic clip.
When you sit at your desk, you slouch back, sit forward, and learn to the sides. When doing this, your ears are never at the same height. We take all this into consideration and worked very hard in our algorithm to calculate all of this. By using your hand, you are making the measurements far more natural as in a real-case situation.
@@SoundIDCreators Good point.
A Music stand works great, I put it right where my ears are when you mix 😀
@@SoundIDCreators Can you make up your mind, please? 🙏 On your website "For the most precise results we suggest using a microphone stand during the measurement process." sonarworks.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203392191-How-do-I-hold-the-microphone-during-measurements- So, What is your final position on that matter?
This was your best SO episode, although I like the others as well. But this was a serious review. Thanks!
Well done review.
I've been using Sonarworks Ref. 3, then Ref. 4, for about 2 years. When combined with some acoustic treatment, it works very well.
I have also been using IK Multimedia ARC 2.0, then ARC2.5, for around 3 years. It is also very effective for room correction when combined with physical treatment.
For some reason, I prefer using the Sonarworks Reference. I guess it sounds better (?).
Smaller rooms almost always need correction. It is expensive to properly correct a room with just acoustic treatment. These correction plugins can help get more accurate monitoring without killing one's budget. And room treatment/correction works great for home theater and listening rooms.
And good quality physical acoustic treatment never breaks, or blows a fuse, or becomes obsolete.
Thanks for all the great videos! Been using sonarworks for years, it's been helping me loads. I usually measure with a mic stand and I always do a couple of measurments and try them out and choose the one I like the most.
This is great! I was shocked when you played the A/B example of on and off. I didn’t expect the stereo field to be so much effected.
I have a stand up desk and a drafting chair... I tested it and found that MY body wants to switch(stand/sit) about every 17 minutes.
DO NOT sit down for long periods of time. That’s a recipe for bad health, heart issues and general lethargic life.
Just a positive thought for us sound guys.
Agreed...I work as an indie translator and spend lots of time sitting in front of my PC for audio purposes...result: infarct at only 42...nothing more to say. Take care of yourselves ladies and gents
I`m using Reference 4 in an acoustic not optimal "livingroom" studio and it helped me a lot reducing room influance. Everything sounds more honest and more relaxed to my ears. For me it makes a big different! THX for your nice videos by the way ;-)
best software I've used yet! haven't had mix translation problems on different speakers since using this reference software!
The preamp is precisely what I thought when I saw you measuring. Also, I don't think there might be an issue if you use a stand.
just got it myself, my studio never sounded better!
Your Studio might sound better but your mixes sound also better on other systems?
@@JohnAmaro_Official Got it running since a year and my mixes do translate a whole lot better than before. I thought it to be a better and quick sollution than room treatment, cause i probably wouldn't get that perfect.
Me too, it‘s working- Great tool
Snake oil- definitely
I would use this to supplement decent room treatment. If you have heavy nodes and slap back echo all over the place, this is just gonna put lipstick on it. At least take care of your first reflection points and bass trap where and if you can.
@UCfvBS6yZdp96lTOC2LjVnWQ - Agreed. The Reference 4 plugin combined with physical room treatment are a great way to get more accurate monitoring in smaller rooms without killing one's budget.
Sonarworks is great stuff. I’ve had it for about 8 months and it’s phenomenal. Great review!
Great video and great software! It took my K&H O300Ds to the next level. It will not replace your room treatment so if your room isn't treated properly, do not waste your money. I wanted to add that Sonarworks Reference 4 software also calibrates selected headphones and I could not believe how much it improved my already great Audeze LCD-X ! This software is more important than any of your studio gear combined. You can mix using just stock plugins if you have accurate monitoring, but if you're monitoring is lying to you, even the most expensive outboard gear won't help much.
Just installed the headphones edition and it took some time to get used to the "new" sound of my beyerdynamic's, but after 2 hrs i can't go back. Great review, great Software!
Been using Sonarworks for over a year now. For sure it won't fix a bad room, but it does helps greatly in correcting your speakers response and at least for me it totally removed the need to go check my work on other speakers or my car. Now i know i can trust what my ears are hearing.
Just curious, is your room bad and yet it has still helped? I have a bad room and am trying to figure out if this product is worth the investment for that scenario. I understand it won’t fix the room I’m just looking for alternatives to acoustic treatment as I am renting.
Another think I wanted to throw in is that if you already did some corrections to your room but you're not sure if it's enough, the measurement can reveal where there's still larger problems in your room treatment.
You determined most of my choices to get a material and know how to use it !!! Thank you all the way from Morocco !!!
Thank you for your very interesting review - this got me trying the software myself. I am a hobby musician but I am a professional audio engineer and loudspeaker designer. My room is acoustically treated and my loudspeakers are DIY DSP solution which I know inside out. In my room I was able to get repeatable results between measurements and started to wonder why you did not.
After a bit of thinking I think I know one reason to it - the microphone. You see, the mic used may be (your signal chain's) by far the weakest link. I would not be surprised if your cables would cost more than the mic! Based on calibration file it is far from linear, I would not be surprised if the polar pattern would not be a perfect omni and there would be more non-linearities in amplitude response.
Despite of this, each and every signal in your studio is affected by the performance of this microphone. Myself, I used trial license, I took higher grade measurement mic (Isemcon emx-7150) from work and applied its calibration file to get everything ruler flat. I would recommend everyone mixing professionally with high-budget setup, to upgrade their microphone to a Class-1 measurement microphone. This doubles the investment but if you have already spent thousands of euros on your mixing rig, it makes sense.
So IMHO this software IS snake oil, if the studio setup is already on same quality level with yours is AND you use 45 Euro microphone for the measurements.
Others with less perfect studio setups, this software makes them better. And with mic upgrade, even better!
However I see a lost opportunity here, as same measurement could be used to analyze reverberation time, standing waves, reasons behind the nonlinearities etc. I had a strange dip on my Right-speaker measurements that got me baffled, I am sure I'll haul ALL my measurement gear home some day, to analyze it. This software should tell it's opinion on room acoustics, not just squeeze everything to flat by using EQ. Sonarworks could make a nice pile of money through a partnership with a acoustic treatment gear -company, WHILE helping their clients to get a better studio and better mixes.
I love Sonarworks! I have a rather untreated room, but with good dimensions and perfect symmetry. The speakers have enough room from the walls, but listening at louder volumes always use to create issues for me. After calibrating my Yamaha HS80M and HEDD Type 05 monitors, the bass sounded so much tighter and well defined, the mids a lot clearer, as the room reflection overaccentuated them. For my Beyerdynamic DT-770 & DT-990's Sonarworks works brilliant too. I dialed the Dry/Wet down to 75%, since the headphone profiles are calibrated to about 3dB, so not exactly accurate. It's the perfect balance for me, but if your headphones are closer to their references your mileage may vary.
I'd definitely recommend the mic stand - but take it one step further by attaching a laser pointer to the mic.
Absolutely agree. This is one of the best plugins I own. Everything translates from monitors to earbuds to iphone. It is "My Truth". It's a really good place to start.
Great video! That 37- time-shifting looks funny as hell :D
I received mine this afternoon and run a measurement for my home studio. I must say my system did sound much better. Of course the acoustic treatment will never make a room "perfect". But with this product you can surely put your room further to a good sounding studio, in reasonable cost. I can't imagine how much effort i need to make my speakers sound balanced in an asymmetrical apartment. Also, in my case, there is a bump in my system at some 110Hz and it bothering me for a couple months. Now I feel saved.
ps. agree with you that zero latency mode sounds more natural than linear phase mode.
i bought it yesterday its totally worth it
Man! I can see you are from Holland! You’ve got a pair of Philips MFB 587 black edition. I think that probably 98% of the people here don’t know what I’m talking about. Great choice! Because of that....SUBSCRIBED! I trust people who understand what those speakers are capable of! Impressed that a young guy appreciates the MFB speakers. Got a pair of 545 studio here as well as the 587,585,541,544
Room and/or speakers seems to sound pretty accurate just by looking at the freq response graph before Sonarwork adding it's own filters.
Yeah but definetly an improvement after
Wow, quite a big difference - as you say the sound is cleaner and more structured, rather impressive!
Thanks for the great video. Your remark about the preamp calibration seems very valid to me. In fact, on the Sonarworks website someone asked that last year (maybe after seeing your video :-) ) but so far no one seemed to have noticed that question (or at least no one responded) and I wonder if their R&D is currently working their way through that. Anyways, great review on a very interesting product. Cheers! Erwin
one thing i mightve missed but want to add anyways: the effect is a lot more noticable on bad speakers/headphones (because they have more flaws that need correction) and it handles those about as well as good headphones/speakers
I like the software mine was quite a pain to set up though I did it eventually. I did know about keeping the mic at exactly the same location is key to precise measurements . I read recently about if the speakers are too close to the wall you may need to adjust the bass response at the back of the speakers but now its not necessary because the software works around this but if you adjust afterwards you would need to remeasure again.
What they should do is allow you to take 100 measurements (of ones that you felt you did accurately) and then average them out so that its consistently within the average of all of your measuements, assume that the majority of your measurements were "more accurate than not accurate" ones. The stand would help. Also, when taking the measurements, you hold it within a small sphere that is considered acceptable. They could reduce the diameter of the acceptable sphere and make it more closely set to a specific point in space. Getting the mic placed exactly at a point would be impossible but smaller spheres would help (and like you said, the stand). I did notice that my entire room sounded more balanced, after doing it once (no matter where I stood, in the room... so its nice for "jam room studio sessions," as well. It does sound the most balanced, if I keep my ears in one spot (which also is difficult to do, even though the spot I picked is where I am most comfortable). The main issue is that we need to move around and be in different positions during our work day, if we want to avoid back pain. But, like I said, it does sound more balanced, no matter where my ears are. There is a possibility that it is my ears tricking my brain, or my expectations causing an "audio libido effect," but I think that is mostly not the case.
The way to make the sweet spot wider is by pushing your speakers further back in the room away from you and farther apart. (Hard if you're room size is limited IK).
really cool review. it definitely changed your monitoring, and your room didn't look that bad in the first place. i can only imagine what an untreated room would test like. i am surprised however that many commentors are using this or similar software without any room treatments up. I wouldn't try to replace acoustic treatment with monitoring software. that sounds like a bad idea. glad yall posted your results from using it in untreated mix rooms, as it does give a better idea of the product though. thanks!
i'd probably try it with a stand. only because they give the directions in 2-d, so i assume they only want me to move the mic in 2-d. thank you for showing how your reading changed from measurement to measurement, and for the nicely in-depth review in general. this was very helpful and very well done. putting up their price page was very helpful too!
Thanks so much! Love this review, watched it all.
I will definitely get it so im starting up saving!
Thanks i can see all the effort you made
Just bought soft soft! So excited to get started!!
I think a good follow-up video would be to do a comparison with the IK Multimedia ARC 2.5 and see which sounds better of the two.
That would be great!
I've used both, and thought Sonarworks was much better thought out and provided better results.
They shouldn’t “sound” at all if done correctly. The underlying math is no secret at all and is used in similar ways for modelling and convolution reverb.
I don’t know how far these 2 products go, but judging from the test sounds (Sinus sweep, impulse) it could possibly correct also in the time domain (phase correction for the speaker cones, mode competition, reflection timing).
IMHO even consumers and even Stereo-only listener should do some compensation in the physical world (damping too many hard surfaces) and electronically (software or DSP).
I don't know about the new ARC measurement system, but I remember the tape on the floor from the ARC 2 measurement process :D
@@Andyw1228 I sent Sonarworks a bunch of questions before upgrading to System from Headphone edition. They confirmed that they do NOT do phase compensation, only frequency compensation. I did not expect their compensation would do a very good job unless it was dealing with frequency and phase (since of course room modes and associated nulls are the result of phase cancellation in the listening position). However, I was surprised at how well it actually helped the sound in my listening position. Not perfect, but better than I had (even with my heavily treated room). My impression from the IK website is that ARC does do some form of phase compensation as well as frequency... however, many people here seem to like the sound of Sonarworks better. I have not tried ARC.
Commenting before I hear your conclusion. The bass definitely sounds more full when the software flattens the frequency response.
Totally buying this once I treat my room and upgrade my monitor setup.
Nice video. My mic just arrived, looking forward to setting up.
You surely know how to record and also have the right gear for that, for few seconds I thought that was the line signal recorded directly. Nice review also. And an honest too. Best regards.
I come here for the sandstorm track, every video never fails
It is an excellent product. I used it and it really works great.
So, now for the big question: After room correcting 2 different sets of speakers, can you still hear a difference between them ? Of course, frequency response is only one part of the whole listening experience, but it would be interesting to get a direct comparison of how much of a factor it really is.
The lack of preamp color consideration was my first question as to why they didn't provide a preamp with a known profile. Granted that the low end was full without hollow place like before. Really gave the track a much better bed for everything to sit upon.
Any preamp that isn't flat enough to handle this belongs in the trash. I use Sonarworks with a Scarlett 2i2. I've built my own sub with deeply extended bass (at the expense of ear-splitting level, which I don't want), and sonarworks just ends up with a straight line from 20 to 20k.
The difference is nothing short of amazing. A game changer. The imaging difference was not expected. Just get it..
man that frequency line looked so good starting with . But you are a professional mix/master engineer so it should be like that.
good job
Hopefully I can get your opinion on this. (Great video BTW!) I think after using Sonarworks a few times I can think of a couple of flaws in the concept. 1. SPEAKERS - most professional monitors are designed to have bumps and valleys in their sound, it's what makes people like mixing on them. The reference 4 software is great but it's measuring the sound of a CERTAIN set of speakers in your room and showing you the curve they send out. I think what you really want is to see the curve of your room without the coloration of your speakers added to the equation. If a Yamaha NS-10 has a huge bump say, at 1.5 Khz, it was designed like that and people like to check on NS-10s perhaps to make sure their mix isn't harsh in those areas. If it was harsh, the NS-10s would tell you and you'd mellow them out a bit. But if Sonarworks levels out the curve of everything you're hearing, it would flatten out that intentional 1.5 kHz bump as well right? Along with any other inherent boosts and cuts designed into the speaker. Because of this, I would say making your room treatment flat is great; you get to hear your NS-10s (or whatever) in a flat room that doesn't add room coloration. Whereas Sonarworks doesn't compensate for the speakers being used. Perhaps they could look into either having a speaker that they design that has a completely flat calibrated response so it didn't colour the measurement and you could purchase it and use them to omit the test tones. Or, perhaps they could have a list of pro audio monitors to choose from and then apply an additional curve (the curve of those monitors) to bring back the sound of the speakers into the equation. The best might be an advanced section where the software could first measure the frequencies of the speaker at close range or something. I assume when using SW with headphones, it DOES adjust the curve according to the particular headset you're using but NOT the room. This brings me to number 2. Speakers and listening environments out in the real world are anything but flat. Listening speakers are designed with hype in certain frequencies for a more pleasing sound and people's room acoustics are all over the place, not flat or consistent. If mixing on flat speakers was the best way to go, all studio monitors would be designed completely flat and that would only be good if all listening speakers were completely flat. I think monitors are meant to be coloured and engineers get used to what those monitors do, so out in the real world their stuff will translate in different environments. Having said all this, I think SW can be improved but I also think it has uses in it's current form. Bottom line: I wouldn't use it exclusively and real room treatment is much more important. Longest post ever! Sorry! but someone might have a good argument for me or consider all this when using Sonarworks.
Very good review Sir. I agree with your opinion that placing the mic on a stand will likely get more accurate measurements. Also, the results are not "perfect", but nothing really is. Your room was much better acoustically than mine, the curves on my measurements were DRASTIC. The improvement on the sound of my system were also MUCH more noticeable, but I want to commend you on the job you did showing the DIFFERENCE in the sound of your system. You were correct when you said no one can hear how good your system sounds unless they are in your room, but you clearly demonstrated the difference the software made on your system. Your video has reaffirmed my opinion that I need to treat my room then recalibrate my Reference 4 measurements to take my system to the next level of sound accuracy. Thanks again for all the work, excellent video.
Dude, use a *mic stand* for measuring. Kilohertz range frequencies have _very_ small runtime differences, and keeping the mic at _exactly_ the same location is *key* to precise measurements!
I bought the headphones edition of this for my Sony MDR-7506 headphones, and... I am not using it any more. I don't listen to my music completely flat, as many systems do not even offer that option (even on "flat" settings, most systems will have a significant bass boost, and even really well-designed systems like Yamaha receivers adjust the bass and treble response below 0 dB, and I rarely crank it up over -12dB), and I have found that cross-referencing my mixes on _different_ systems (headphones, car stereo, home theater, even laptop speakers) gives me a far more reliable feedback on how my music will sound on different end-consumer systems.
Ha, I bought it, and when it arrived there was only the software activation key in the box - no mic. So, right now, I'm still awating a bloody response from DV247/Music Store, who have proved very silent since taking my money. Once this issue has been sorted, I can put it to the test, but with your review and reviews on a couple of other channels, I'm glad to say, everything looks positive
I’d love for you to review IK miltimedia’s ARC correction as well to see if there is a big difference between it and thia one. The IK version is much less expensive.
I had the ik one before getting sonarworks. It's an entirely different league! Sonarworks is so much easier to calibrate, and sounds much more transparent and natural. To me, a no brainer. Also, the irritation finding out I had to pay ik a transfer of license fee to sell it....
Another interesting point is that if you use tonal balance control or something that analyzes signal in order to suggest better frequency choices, it would probably be wise to put this after them as they are essentially eq'ing the signal.
Awesome showcasing of the results, man! It also comes through nicely how much clearer your room got.
When you treated your room after this tool is the best to go to the last %. Tip for clean measure use a roller stativ what holds in Z direction Earposition and you get same curves for calibrate! Best on this measure is that the left and right speaker is calibrate so smaller unsymetrical room behavior is flated out. My sweetspot grow to a area of 50cm with a perfect stero basis.
So from my side Top Product and every cent is for your ears!
the low is so much cleaner after the processing imo! great vid!
Good review! One comment re: mic preamp coloration- Any mic preamp of reasonable quality should have far smaller deviations in frequency response than the response of the room at any given point. Averaging the response of the measurement locations for the final eq settings should make the tenths of a decibel differences between decent mic preamps unnoticeable. Most mic preamp coloration is due to various distortion and phase artifacts.
I wish Sonarworks would offer more information about the acoustics of the room. A waterfall plot to show ringing and time domain anomalies would help studio owners learn where other acoustic problems are coming from. A room that measures flat from a frequency perspective can still have huge issues with different frequencies decaying at different rates. Low frequencies can continue to bounce around inside a room many times as long as high frequencies if the room is not sufficiently bass trapped.
The headphone correction is fantastic too
Thanks for the video.
I had luck to try very early experimental versions of this software and at that time it was designed to have a loopback cable, which allowed to achieve more accurate latency & distance measurements. I saw your speaker distance measurement yield 20cm inaccuracy, while in the early versions with the loopback cable and a crappy cheap computer microphone, if I remember correctly, the measurement error was never greater than 5 - 10cm.
I guess they decided to get rid of the loopback cable thus sacrificing the latency measurement accuracy (and more advanced features, e.g. preamp coloration measurement, as you mentioned) for simplicity of use. Also, when you manually enter the real distance between your speakers, the software can use the difference between your entry and its measurement as a correction value for later latency measurements, so that is a clever workaround to get rid of that loopback cable for latency & positioning measurements.
I've been using room eq for more than 10 years. I have some comments to add.
Firstly thanks for the review! Very enjoyable video.
Can you show us the correction curve being applied? I'm really curious how much they are doing in the mid and top.
Linear phase filters should not be used for room mode correction because room modes are not linear phase! They are mainly minimum phase ('normal' filter style).
Speakers should be measured together where the wavelengths are large enough to combine/interfere. Say at 100Hz the two speakers act to alter the polar pattern compared to one speaker. Also we don't have directional hearing down low.
At short wavelengths/ higher frequencies you want to measure separately because our hearing is highly directional.
Pre amps do not add much coloration nor frequency deviation (filters dissabled) if they are reasonable solid state designs. E.g. most audio interfaces built in. Only some fancy valve / tube thing might cause problems. Anything from Edirol, M-audio, Emu etc will be flat as a pancake.
Assuming the result really is as flat as the software shows, the correction curve should just be the pre-correction frequency response curve flipped upside down.
As I'm sure it's not as flat as shown, I'd like to see the actual curve added, too.
@@iliilili310 It's not as flat indeed.
Using RoomEQWizard you can see a lot of bumps still but still, it's so flat that compared to uncorrected it shouldn't even matter.
So it's somewhat recommended.
would u say the same about Focusrite preamps? or does they are still a problem regarding coloration?
Excellent video! Easy to follow, even for a novice. English is not my natural language, but your explanation is so clear that I understood just everything you said (at least I think so :-))
Definitely a big improvement in my room. Only problem is the low output volume on the Systemwide app. Can't use it on headphones directly from my laptop, volume is too low to hear properly and raising it clips the app. Otherwise a great product. Really improves imaging and separation of the instruments.
Your voice reminds me of gold member from Austin powers and it makes me happy
Ishn't dat veerd?
Thanks for the review , I have the software , I don't think My room is perfect after the calibration but it sure sound better more organize like you said , the center is more there, it is like upgrading to speakers with better imaging and closer to flat ( but not perfect of course ).
im so glad that i found you, good stuff my fella!
I have this and love it but also noticed that the calibrations can vary a lot. Always in the same rough area but obviously not totally precise. I reckon it's worth doing a few calibrations of the same room and then switching between them as you mix so you can work towards something that translates well across them all, working to a kind of average.
Btw, watched many of your videos now. really good channel and you present it very well its very authentic.
good job.
Great Vid and Review! No wasted time. Straight to the point!
I'm not quite SOLD yet. But, I agree that it helps improve the referencing at the desk.
This is a good stuff. I don't create music, however I like to listen a lot. My goal was to achieve a best sound for a lowest price. To people who want to improve their setup - DRC can be done by free software, only one thing you need is measurement microphone and knowledge. As he mentioned DRC is not flawless. The major disadvantage is one sweet spot, because frequency response is not consistent in different spots.
That's always gonna happen no matter what. Calibrated or uncalibrated. Yoi move? The sound changes.. I guess this could possibly create a lopsode scenario though.
The only way around it would be to put a tracking device on each ear and have the system calibrate in real time for each position... The Calibration process might be a pain.. The tracking device could even have its own mics built in lol and be Bluetooth. Maybe a helmet with holes for one's ears haha.
... Or wear headphones.
Even treated rooms are optimized for certain listening positions... So os simple speaker placement.
love these videos
I think you are spot on about the pre's, there should be a line level analyzing stage at the beginning. And that is why they sent it to you! I think you were lucky to get this sent to you, it's about $500 in Canada after our wonderful 13% tax that evapourates after you pay it. Still, well worth the money considering, and since I have studied acoustics for longer than I will admit to (age denial) I could test any room design to be sure I did everything right to get that .6 sec live room reverb and the .4 second recording room reverb and total lack of standing waves. Then the monitors would be the only problem, and this will eliminate that! This is the video that got met o sub, so thank you!
I just bought the headphone edition on sale. A every fair price, considering how much it improves my relatively cheap AKG Headphones.
The pre amp is considered part of the speaker coloration in those measurements. In a first order approximation this is still fine.
Thx for this review! U were right. They to fix the problem how to get the mic at the same high as your ears. Cuz for me it’s the sweet spot! Thumps up!
Miracles starts with a home room. For me Reference 4 tool from the Heaven because it can remove muddy from low midrange and balance the stereo width also. My mixes starts sound just better. Definately snake oil in the home mixing!)
I don't think snake oil means what you think it means.
Late comment I know but: this program worked great at first and then after updates really borked my system. They then came out with a new version and I just feel like I don’t like being forced to upgrade to make something functional. I switched to the slate digital headphones and had better luck there (note: I only ever used this software for headphones)
But, I did find the different eq options very interesting. This is actually what convinced me that I genuinely prefer non-linear phase eq most of the time. It made me realize how much the preringing can really change the sounds. The non-linear phase eq sounded better always (or the blended one). This was a real eye opener and I’ve avoided using linear phase eq unless necessary ever since and my mixes got better! So there’s something good that came of this software even if it crashed and burned on me later after updates.
Yes, you can use a stand when making measurements. Everybody is going to point that one out lol. I'd be interested to shoot the room with REW, run SonarWorks, then reshoot with REW again. That'll probably give you a more accurate assessment due to REW calibrating both mic and preamp.
Interesting to hear how the differences in left / right output of the speakers without correction give a false sense of stereo width ! It was especially apparent in the acoustic guitar track . That would obviously make one's mixes narrower or the stereo field less predictable when translating to the end listener's system.
I use Sonarworks headphone edition inserted post Waves Abbey Road Studio 3 which I'm not sure whether you've reviewed or not. I'll check but if not please do one. Killer combination that translates extremely well. I've never enjoyed mixing through headphones (DT770) as much as I do now.
Really want to try this for my home studio!!
I’ ve bought the same sonarworks measurement mic: it came with a clamp for a stand👍🏻😁
Awesome Review! very thorough and well thought out.
Thanks for review man!!
very good review ! thanks and i agree...
I use the headphones version to clean up issues that I cant catch in my room. Works really really well for my AKG K240's
@3:16 I do the opposite but equal adjustment. I leave my monitors as-is but listen to lots of program material to have my brain and ears adjust to what is bassy and what is bright. While initially it may not be how I like to feel the mix, I'll soon adapt to the relativity of the speakers and change my baseline preferences.
Bought it this summer after reading about it and wondering about the 'snake oil' aspect for a long time. Scores of positive (professional) reviews convinced me to give it and try and voila - my monitors sound SOOOO much better than ever before. KRK 7000B's with a $1500 Conrad Johnson stereo MOSFET amp, RME Fireface 800 interface and a small sub from Monitor Audio. Tested with and without the sub running and made two profiles that I can easily switch between depending on whether I'm just listening to the monitors or using the sub to extend the bottom end.
My room is treated thoroughly with GIK products per (free) their advice regarding which products to use and where to place, and THAT was a big improvement (especially in the low end) too. Sonarworks Reference 4 was the proverbial icing on the cake. I am very happy with it (in the headphones too) and would recommend to anyone. But as you pointed out, there is no fix for standing waves except to treat the room and kill them, so don't just rely on this software. Treat the low end with bass traps and kill the early reflections from the ceiling and side walls to your listening position and THEN implement Sonorworks. The best of everything!
REW measures the input and output frequency responses of the interface. It's a serious piece of software for measurement but this is much faster and it has a built in eq so...